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GE2019 CON voters much more likely to switch to LAB than vice versa – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,046
    edited April 2023
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    It took a while to recover from the Corn Laws (not a million miles from Brexit for folly) but where are the Whig- Liberals now?😊😂
    Split between the Conservatives and Orange Book Liberal Democrats.

    The Conservatives also won a few brief periods of government even under the Protectionist Lord Derby after the free trade Peelites left having repealed the Corn Laws. Even if they did not win a clear election victory and majority again after Peel's in 1841 until Disraeli's in 1874
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!

    Totally agree.

    Lol - there has to be a first time for everything, even on PB. Wait till Roger sees it - you'll be off the Xmas card list and banished to Hartlepool!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,577
    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    The Pogues made it sound like a fun place!

    "I am Francisco Vasquez Garcia
    I am welcome to Almeria
    We have sin gas and con leche
    We have fiesta and feria
    We have the song of the cochona
    We have brandy and half corona
    And Leonardo and his accordione
    And Kalamari and macaroni
    Come all you rambling boys of pleasure
    And ladies of easy leisure
    We must say Adios! until we see
    Almeria once again...."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYI9t-I6qo&ab_channel=ThePoguesOfficial
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    edited April 2023

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    Keir Starmer has correctly identified that there are more old people every year, that they vote at higher rates than the young, and he can keep them happy more simply than the young - because he basically doesn't need to risk changing anything to do so.

    I think there's quite a high chance of the voting pattern by age changing quite drastically for the ~2028 GE, if Starmer is as timid and tedious as currently looks likely. The young will be disappointed, the old will be reassured.

    Worth noting that in all the New Labour general elections (1997-2010) the bias of the old to vote Tory was lowest in 2010. They were the least upset by the hames made of the economy, and Brown had assiduously bought their support since the debacle of the 75p pension increase (following which - you guessed it - the bias of the old to vote Tory was at its greatest at the next GE).
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    It took a while to recover from the Corn Laws (not a million miles from Brexit for folly) but where are the Whig- Liberals now?😊😂
    Split between the Conservatives and Orange Book Liberal Democrats.

    The Conservatives also won a few brief periods of government even under the Protectionist Lord Derby after the free trade Peelites left having repealed the Corn Laws. Even if they did not win a clear election victory and majority again after Peel's in 1842 until Disraeli's in 1874
    Fact is they paid s heavy price for RoCL. Brexit may be about to take a similar toll.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,577

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    Which is when you go to Thailand, when its climate is most clement....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    Rishi Sunak refuses to back Braverman’s widely criticised claim about racial nature of grooming gangs
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/apr/03/labour-calls-for-serious-strategy-to-tackle-grooming-gangs-after-sunak-claims-political-correctness-part-of-problem-uk-politics-live

    FWIW, I'm not convinced even Rotherham was all about 'political correctness', though it was a significant factor.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    The Pogues made it sound like a fun place!

    "I am Francisco Vasquez Garcia
    I am welcome to Almeria
    We have sin gas and con leche
    We have fiesta and feria
    We have the song of the cochona
    We have brandy and half corona
    And Leonardo and his accordione
    And Kalamari and macaroni
    Come all you rambling boys of pleasure
    And ladies of easy leisure
    We must say Adios! until we see
    Almeria once again...."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYI9t-I6qo&ab_channel=ThePoguesOfficial
    It's probably best known as the inaptly named home of the 'spaghetti' westerns of the 60s.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    Leon said:

    About 15% of me wants there to be a civil war in America, just for the lolz. Sorry

    Interestingly, I reckon the chances of American civil strife- of some kind - are about the same. 15%

    Do you think your desire for an intense civil conflict could be sated by such a conflict in Russia or China?

    Might have slightly less damaging consequences for other democracies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,046
    edited April 2023
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    It took a while to recover from the Corn Laws (not a million miles from Brexit for folly) but where are the Whig- Liberals now?😊😂
    Split between the Conservatives and Orange Book Liberal Democrats.

    The Conservatives also won a few brief periods of government even under the Protectionist Lord Derby after the free trade Peelites left having repealed the Corn Laws. Even if they did not win a clear election victory and majority again after Peel's in 1842 until Disraeli's in 1874
    Fact is they paid s heavy price for RoCL. Brexit may be about to take a similar toll.
    The bulk of the party remains pro Brexit though, as the bulk of the party was pro Corn Laws in the late 1840s. Like then it will take a generation for that to change.

    Peel who backed Corn Laws repeal like Cameron in opposing Brexit went against the bulk of his party and both had stronger connections to free trade Liberals than more reactionary Tories
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    edited April 2023
    If you want to understand that US life expectancy map Carlotta posted, let me suggest you read this Wikipedia article on the "Hispanic Paradox":

    "The Hispanic paradox is an epidemiological finding that Hispanic Americans tend to have health outcomes that "paradoxically" are comparable to, or in some cases better than, those of their U.S. non-Hispanic White counterparts, even though Hispanics have lower average income and education. Low socioeconomic status is almost universally associated with worse population health and higher death rates everywhere in the world.[2] The paradox usually refers in particular to low mortality among Hispanics in the United States relative to non-Hispanic Whites.[3][4][5][6][7][8] According to the Center for Disease Control's 2015 Vital Signs report, Hispanics in the United States had a 24% lower risk of mortality, as well as lower risk for nine of the fifteen leading causes of death as compared to Whites."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox

    (That advantage was reduced by COVID, because Hispanics are more likely to live in multi-generational households, but I expect it will return to former levels, soon.)

    That Hispanic advantage explains why, for example, life expectancy is higher along the Rio Grande.

    In my opinion, what gives Hispanics in the US that advantage is stronger families -- which would explain why some other US groups notable for stronger families, Jews, Japanese-Americans, and so one, also have higher life expectancies.

    (Unfortunately, if I am right, it means that the life expectancy problem is difficult to solve simply through government actions, though there are things governments can do.)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    It took a while to recover from the Corn Laws (not a million miles from Brexit for folly) but where are the Whig- Liberals now?😊😂
    Split between the Conservatives and Orange Book Liberal Democrats.

    The Conservatives also won a few brief periods of government even under the Protectionist Lord Derby after the free trade Peelites left having repealed the Corn Laws. Even if they did not win a clear election victory and majority again after Peel's in 1842 until Disraeli's in 1874
    Fact is they paid s heavy price for RoCL. Brexit may be about to take a similar toll.
    The bulk of the party remains pro Brexit though, as the bulk of the party was pro Corn Laws in the late 1840s. Like then it will take a generation for that to change.

    Peel who backed Corn Laws repeal like Cameron in opposing Brexit went against the bulk of his party and both had strong connections to free trade Liberals
    Yes and that is the mistake repeating itself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Yes, it's because we're a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much - we find it much easier to project our emotions onto animals, than to our fellow man, and anthropomorphise them.

    It's why the RSPCA was set up decades before the NSPCC, why caning was still allowed into the 1990s and why care home abuse (still) goes on today with a shrug.
    Sounds suspiciously like slagging off the majority of the British people to me.
    It's really odd how you're being so curt and trying to contrive some sort of political divide over this. This isn't Twitter.

    What do you think the problem and the answer is?

    Sorry I'll try to tailor my quotes to meet with your approval in future. I hadn't realised you were now the site editor.

    For someone who is quick to decry "lefties" for criticising the UK I found it ironic that you characterise the majority of Brits as "a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much". Not terribly patriotic is it?

    As to your last point I have already responded to that earlier.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Yes, I do like Malaga, and you have the magnificent mountains behind, plus Ronda, Seville, Granada

    However, Palma is also alluring. Tho you are then stuck on an island
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,577
    Anyway, the changes in the Spanish climate is making parts of it like the Sahara in summer.

    I wouldn't live there, not even for a 15% tax rate.

    I'll just wait for those hours of sunshine to turn up in south-west England - as the heat of cliamte change races inexorably north...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    felix said:

    FOR YOUR DIARY: Tomorrow.

    7.15 pm.

    "barricades have been rected around Manhattan Criminal Court where Mr Trump will appear before Judge Juan Merchan at 2.15pm on Tuesday"

    Ridiculous. The oxygen of publicity for free. He'll be loving it.
    These crimes - the Stormy ones - are minor, and if it wasn't Trump I doubt charges would be brought.

    On the other hand, the financial ones - where he declared the value of properties to the IRS at one level, and to banks at another - are serious, especially given the scale of the difference in valuations.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Yes, it's because we're a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much - we find it much easier to project our emotions onto animals, than to our fellow man, and anthropomorphise them.

    It's why the RSPCA was set up decades before the NSPCC, why caning was still allowed into the 1990s and why care home abuse (still) goes on today with a shrug.
    Sounds suspiciously like slagging off the majority of the British people to me.
    It's really odd how you're being so curt and trying to contrive some sort of political divide over this. This isn't Twitter.

    What do you think the problem and the answer is?

    Sorry I'll try to tailor my quotes to meet with your approval in future. I hadn't realised you were now the site editor.

    For someone who is quick to decry "lefties" for criticising the UK I found it ironic that you characterise the majority of Brits as "a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much". Not terribly patriotic is it?

    As to your last point I have already responded to that earlier.
    Ah, ok - you only want to troll and be a massive and pointless twat.

    Got it. Will add you to my ignore list in future.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,373
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I really loved my first visit to Madrid in October. The art is incredible. As is the food (and really, quite cheap compared to London). Iberia is an excellent airline, and the journey between Gatwick and Madrid, and vice versa could not have been smoother. And, both airports were clean and efficient.

    OTOH, Wizz Air to Durbrovnik in September, was a nightmare (they landed us in Zagreb) and Luton Airport was vile on return.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    Leon said:

    About 15% of me wants there to be a civil war in America, just for the lolz. Sorry

    Interestingly, I reckon the chances of American civil strife- of some kind - are about the same. 15%

    Do you think your desire for an intense civil conflict could be sated by such a conflict in Russia or China?

    Might have slightly less damaging consequences for other democracies.
    Whilst we could weather - or even be slightly curious about - the American Civil War of the 1860s, to have one today would release beasts from hell's gates all over the world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Anyway, the changes in the Spanish climate is making parts of it like the Sahara in summer.

    I wouldn't live there, not even for a 15% tax rate.

    I'll just wait for those hours of sunshine to turn up in south-west England - as the heat of cliamte change races inexorably north...

    That's why you have to be near the sea, it tempers things - in Spain

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I really loved my first visit to Madrid in October. The art is incredible. As is the food (and really, quite cheap compared to London). Iberia is an excellent airline, and the journey between Gatwick and Madrid, and vice versa could not have been smoother. And, both airports were clean and efficient.

    OTOH, Wizz Air to Durbrovnik in September, was a nightmare (they landed us in Zagreb) and Luton Airport was vile on return.
    Isn't that all part of the service with Wizz Air?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,373
    edited April 2023

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I really loved my first visit to Madrid in October. The art is incredible. As is the food (and really, quite cheap compared to London). Iberia is an excellent airline, and the journey between Gatwick and Madrid, and vice versa could not have been smoother. And, both airports were clean and efficient.

    OTOH, Wizz Air to Durbrovnik in September, was a nightmare (they landed us in Zagreb) and Luton Airport was vile on return.
    Isn't that all part of the service with Wizz Air?
    I'm now suing them for £1,100.

    It also made me realise, why on earth am I flying budge airlines at this stage in my life.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,919
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I wish Oxford was like Salamanca

    It could have been, except the food (edit - and weather!)

    The baby lambs that have only consumed their mothers' milk are appallingly delicious
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Yes, it's because we're a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much - we find it much easier to project our emotions onto animals, than to our fellow man, and anthropomorphise them.

    It's why the RSPCA was set up decades before the NSPCC, why caning was still allowed into the 1990s and why care home abuse (still) goes on today with a shrug.
    Sounds suspiciously like slagging off the majority of the British people to me.
    It's really odd how you're being so curt and trying to contrive some sort of political divide over this. This isn't Twitter.

    What do you think the problem and the answer is?

    Sorry I'll try to tailor my quotes to meet with your approval in future. I hadn't realised you were now the site editor.

    For someone who is quick to decry "lefties" for criticising the UK I found it ironic that you characterise the majority of Brits as "a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much". Not terribly patriotic is it?

    As to your last point I have already responded to that earlier.
    Ah, ok - you only want to troll and be a massive and pointless twat.

    Got it. Will add you to my ignore list in future.
    If everyone you have lost your rag with and called a twat and is on your ignore list you must get through a thread in no time.

    I consider it a badge of honour
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited April 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    FOR YOUR DIARY: Tomorrow.

    7.15 pm.

    "barricades have been rected around Manhattan Criminal Court where Mr Trump will appear before Judge Juan Merchan at 2.15pm on Tuesday"

    Ridiculous. The oxygen of publicity for free. He'll be loving it.
    These crimes - the Stormy ones - are minor, and if it wasn't Trump I doubt charges would be brought.

    On the other hand, the financial ones - where he declared the value of properties to the IRS at one level, and to banks at another - are serious, especially given the scale of the difference in valuations.

    The trouble is, he can use the first group being politically motivated to cast doubt on the second group.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I really loved my first visit to Madrid in October. The art is incredible. As is the food (and really, quite cheap compared to London). Iberia is an excellent airline, and the journey between Gatwick and Madrid, and vice versa could not have been smoother. And, both airports were clean and efficient.

    OTOH, Wizz Air to Durbrovnik in September, was a nightmare (they landed us in Zagreb) and Luton Airport was vile on return.
    Isn't that all part of the service with Wizz Air?
    I'm now suing them for £1,100.

    It also made me realise, why on earth am I flying budge airlines at this stage in my life.
    Because for a short flight there is virtually no difference between Easyjet and BA. In fact, no difference. Easyjet is often more punctual, as is Ryanair

    For longer flights, there is indeed a difference

    WizzAir can be fine, as can Luton - if all yo want is an airport convenient for north London. It is not a place to linger, but few airports are
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,042
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    It took a while to recover from the Corn Laws (not a million miles from Brexit for folly) but where are the Whig- Liberals now?😊😂
    Split between the Conservatives and Orange Book Liberal Democrats.

    The Conservatives also won a few brief periods of government even under the Protectionist Lord Derby after the free trade Peelites left having repealed the Corn Laws. Even if they did not win a clear election victory and majority again after Peel's in 1841 until Disraeli's in 1874
    Interesting that it was almost exactly the same length of time between Peel's and Disraeli's victories as between Mrs Thatcher's last triumph in 1987 and Boris's first (and presumably only) triumph in 2019.

    Boris and Disraeli have a lot in common - vulgar showmanship, lack of attention to detail, casual attitude to facts, popularity amongst parts of the electorate the Conservatives can't usually reach, etc.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    I see Finland are finally joining Nato tomorrow. With Erdogans objections, its been a difficult process, I was wondering if it would ever finnish.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    OllyT said:

    WillG said:

    OllyT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Why do you think it might be?
    I can only speak for myself. The one thing the world could could easily get by without is further increases in population. Those that want to have children are freel to do so but the children are their responsibility.
    We happily pay taxes toward their education, healthcare and protection but beyond that it's down to the parents.

    If however humans don't intervene to protect other species and prevent the trashing of the planet in general then nobody else is going to. There is barely a problem that the world faces that isn't exacerbated by an ever-increasing population. Drought, famine, climate change, destruction of habitat. I guess my money goes to support animal and environmental charities because I don't believe that humans have the right to push everything else off the face of the earth,
    Without enough children in the next few generations, you will be screwed in retirememt. If you have a public pension and healthcare, they need to pay in the taxes to keep it going. If you have private healthcare, you need young people subsidizing the risk pools to keep premiums down. If you have a private pension, the rate of return on investment is only possible by having enough workers to keep growth going.

    Climate change and habitat destruction should be addressed by direct regulation on those things.
    So a constantly expanding Ponzi scheme in reality?
    It is not a Ponzi scheme to have a relatively fixed relationship between the number of workers and the number of non-workers.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I really loved my first visit to Madrid in October. The art is incredible. As is the food (and really, quite cheap compared to London). Iberia is an excellent airline, and the journey between Gatwick and Madrid, and vice versa could not have been smoother. And, both airports were clean and efficient.

    OTOH, Wizz Air to Durbrovnik in September, was a nightmare (they landed us in Zagreb) and Luton Airport was vile on return.
    Isn't that all part of the service with Wizz Air?
    I'm now suing them for £1,100.

    It also made me realise, why on earth am I flying budge airlines at this stage in my life.
    I had a Polish girlfriend when I last flew with them, which was very useful.

    She'd phone them up and shout at them in Polish for 15 minutes, which got results.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    MikeL said:

    The Betfair US Masters market is interesting.

    There are 93 players listed - though the field is now finalised at 88 players.

    And no, the five not playing aren't all 1,000. I haven't checked all five - but one player not playing can be laid below 100.

    Until a couple of days ago, 103 players were listed - though it was possible for one more player (on top of the 88) to qualify by winning the Texas Open which finished yesterday. But several players not even in the Texas Open were listed - eg Casey - who could have been laid at approx 130. He has now been deleted from the market - presumably settled as a loser.

    Indeed Casey and Westwood were listed for weeks despite it being impossible for them to qualify as they were only playing LIV events.

    I assume the five further players still listed but not competing will be deleted within the next 24 to 48 hours.

    Further to above post made at 6.30am today:

    The five players have now been deleted by Betfair.

    Rickie Fowler was the player who could have been laid below 100.

    Astonishingly he was Back 70, Lay 75 at 6.30am this morning.

    He could also have been laid in the markets for top 5, top 10 etc.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    felix said:

    felix said:

    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


    All very predictable - I wonder how many seats stay SNP as a result.
    Nah, Labour needs to win over yes voters if it wants to win 20+ seats. Publicly cosying up to the Tories would undermine this... and besides, a lot of SCON voters in the Central Belt seem to have gone over to Labour anyway.
    Of course a number of elderly Tory voters will have died over the past few years and been replaced by younger, Labour-inclined people.
    Gosh if there was anything in that 'theory' the Tories would have long been extinct.
    Keep trying.

    If you look at Tory polling numbers in younger age groups they are pretty much extinct. Generation Z does seem to be behaving differently to previous generations:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/politics-conservative-twitter-millennials-gen-z_uk_63aef8cce4b0d6f0b9f354c5

    And that's relatively novel.

    Until about a decade ago, the age gradient was a fairly gentle thing; Conservatives doing about five points better than average with pensioners and five points worse with Da Yoot. Conservatives were never going to go extinct, and the replenishment was fairly easy.

    Something changed from 2015 onwards; austerity protecting health and pensions at the expense of almost everything else, Red Wall Theory emphasising social conservatism, Brexit, other stuff... But the age challenge for the blue team is much harder than before. Very few people of working age will admit to voting Conservative.

    The Conservative success with the boomer generation is turning into a kind of drug addiction. It felt great for a while, but it has the potential to kill them.
    HOUSING!!!!!

    Conservatives, if you want to ever be elected again, get building.

    (Although, to take the contrary point, those all in favour of immigration are complaining about the cost of housing. At some point they’ll see the correletion.)
    Absolutely. But the Conservatives have made themselves prisoners of the bit of the electorate that isn't looking to start buying a house, doesn't mind prices going up and really doesn't want their peace and view disturbed.

    It's a relationship that's going to kill the Conservatives unless they're careful.
    History teaches us that the Conservatives understand the basic rules of adapt or die. They will adapt and not die. In most democracies at least 30% or more will always vote for right wing parties.
    Partially agreed- if anyone can adapt, the British Conservative Party can. But decisions taken a decade ago mean that they have an unusually urgent need to adapt the message and an unusually weak gene pool from which to do it.
    It took a while to recover from the Corn Laws (not a million miles from Brexit for folly) but where are the Whig- Liberals now?😊😂
    Split between the Conservatives and Orange Book Liberal Democrats.

    The Conservatives also won a few brief periods of government even under the Protectionist Lord Derby after the free trade Peelites left having repealed the Corn Laws. Even if they did not win a clear election victory and majority again after Peel's in 1841 until Disraeli's in 1874
    Interesting that it was almost exactly the same length of time between Peel's and Disraeli's victories as between Mrs Thatcher's last triumph in 1987 and Boris's first (and presumably only) triumph in 2019.

    Boris and Disraeli have a lot in common - vulgar showmanship, lack of attention to detail, casual attitude to facts, popularity amongst parts of the electorate the Conservatives can't usually reach, etc.
    Disraeli was a statesman. Johnson was/is a clown.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    I see Finland are finally joining Nato tomorrow. With Erdogans objections, its been a difficult process, I was wondering if it would ever finnish.

    It's finished just as Marin has been Finnished.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Nigelb said:

    Rishi Sunak refuses to back Braverman’s widely criticised claim about racial nature of grooming gangs
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/apr/03/labour-calls-for-serious-strategy-to-tackle-grooming-gangs-after-sunak-claims-political-correctness-part-of-problem-uk-politics-live

    FWIW, I'm not convinced even Rotherham was all about 'political correctness', though it was a significant factor.

    Surely if Braverman triggers those people she wants to trigger it is a win whatever the reality of the claim.

    If I was Sunak I would be very wary of his Home Secretary. Et tu Suella?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    I only went there for the train ride. Also, I was a tourist so no point being too sniffy about things being touristy. There's a nice beach and places to get food, so it was fine.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Off topic, but perhaps of interest to many of you: David Miliband is urging Joe Biden (though he doesn't mention him by name) to follow George W. Bush's example:
    "The President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) has saved 25 million lives since 2003. Two decades on, a similar act of U.S. leadership is needed to tackle a growing humanitarian crisis already causing millions of preventable deaths: acute malnutrition in children."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/04/03/children-malnutrition-famine-american-leadership/

    (I am inclined to agree with Miliband that the US ought to do this.)

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    edited April 2023
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    The Betfair US Masters market is interesting.

    There are 93 players listed - though the field is now finalised at 88 players.

    And no, the five not playing aren't all 1,000. I haven't checked all five - but one player not playing can be laid below 100.

    Until a couple of days ago, 103 players were listed - though it was possible for one more player (on top of the 88) to qualify by winning the Texas Open which finished yesterday. But several players not even in the Texas Open were listed - eg Casey - who could have been laid at approx 130. He has now been deleted from the market - presumably settled as a loser.

    Indeed Casey and Westwood were listed for weeks despite it being impossible for them to qualify as they were only playing LIV events.

    I assume the five further players still listed but not competing will be deleted within the next 24 to 48 hours.

    Further to above post made at 6.30am today:

    The five players have now been deleted by Betfair.

    Rickie Fowler was the player who could have been laid below 100.

    Astonishingly he was Back 70, Lay 75 at 6.30am this morning.

    He could also have been laid in the markets for top 5, top 10 etc.
    Was he first reserve? Or just a definite non runner?

    Good spot and nice share!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    ...
    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    Your team reeling in the hapless Loser Party and at some pace.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    I only went there for the train ride. Also, I was a tourist so no point being too sniffy about things being touristy. There's a nice beach and places to get food, so it was fine.
    The food is good in Soller, but it is overwhelmed with tourists

    That's why I prefer Palma - in Majorca. It's a proper city that is itself, it doesn't need tourists that much, and it easily absorbs those it has (most people head further out to the beaches and the coasts)
  • Boaty McBoatface's maiden voyage was six years ago today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Salamanca

    Salamanca is a fantastic place. I love the food there - but it is very Castillian.

    I really loved my first visit to Madrid in October. The art is incredible. As is the food (and really, quite cheap compared to London). Iberia is an excellent airline, and the journey between Gatwick and Madrid, and vice versa could not have been smoother. And, both airports were clean and efficient.

    OTOH, Wizz Air to Durbrovnik in September, was a nightmare (they landed us in Zagreb) and Luton Airport was vile on return.
    Isn't that all part of the service with Wizz Air?
    I'm now suing them for £1,100.

    It also made me realise, why on earth am I flying budge airlines at this stage in my life.
    I had a Polish girlfriend when I last flew with them, which was very useful.

    She'd phone them up and shout at them in Polish for 15 minutes, which got results.
    That always adds a little polish to the communications

    (couldn't resist that after the Finnish/finish puns)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
    Norfolk, of course
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
    Northwest Greece, perhaps. Montenegro?

    Northern Portugal and Galicia are still prone to grey weather in summer

    If you want inland maybe somewhere like Lozere in France. Cooled by forests and mountains, but sunny
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    Your team reeling in the hapless Loser Party and at some pace.
    Honest question, but what do you want Labour to do?
    -Do you want them to shift to being a rejoin party?
    -Do you think Labour can win on a rejoin platform? Are they more likely to win on such a platform than accepting Brexit in the short to medium term?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Yes, it's because we're a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much - we find it much easier to project our emotions onto animals, than to our fellow man, and anthropomorphise them.

    It's why the RSPCA was set up decades before the NSPCC, why caning was still allowed into the 1990s and why care home abuse (still) goes on today with a shrug.
    Sounds suspiciously like slagging off the majority of the British people to me.
    It's really odd how you're being so curt and trying to contrive some sort of political divide over this. This isn't Twitter.

    What do you think the problem and the answer is?

    Sorry I'll try to tailor my quotes to meet with your approval in future. I hadn't realised you were now the site editor.

    For someone who is quick to decry "lefties" for criticising the UK I found it ironic that you characterise the majority of Brits as "a misanthropic and socially uneasy lot who don't like other people very much". Not terribly patriotic is it?

    As to your last point I have already responded to that earlier.
    Ah, ok - you only want to troll and be a massive and pointless twat.

    Got it. Will add you to my ignore list in future.
    If everyone you have lost your rag with and called a twat and is on your ignore list you must get through a thread in no time.

    I consider it a badge of honour
    Have another one, twat
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
    Norfolk, of course
    '&'chance....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    edited April 2023

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    Your team reeling in the hapless Loser Party and at some pace.
    Well, if the Tories manage to cut one point off the Labour lead every month between now and the next general election, if they delay the election until the last possible date, they will just have nosed ahead.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    rcs1000 said:

    OllyT said:

    WillG said:

    OllyT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Why do you think it might be?
    I can only speak for myself. The one thing the world could could easily get by without is further increases in population. Those that want to have children are freel to do so but the children are their responsibility.
    We happily pay taxes toward their education, healthcare and protection but beyond that it's down to the parents.

    If however humans don't intervene to protect other species and prevent the trashing of the planet in general then nobody else is going to. There is barely a problem that the world faces that isn't exacerbated by an ever-increasing population. Drought, famine, climate change, destruction of habitat. I guess my money goes to support animal and environmental charities because I don't believe that humans have the right to push everything else off the face of the earth,
    Without enough children in the next few generations, you will be screwed in retirememt. If you have a public pension and healthcare, they need to pay in the taxes to keep it going. If you have private healthcare, you need young people subsidizing the risk pools to keep premiums down. If you have a private pension, the rate of return on investment is only possible by having enough workers to keep growth going.

    Climate change and habitat destruction should be addressed by direct regulation on those things.
    So a constantly expanding Ponzi scheme in reality?
    It is not a Ponzi scheme to have a relatively fixed relationship between the number of workers and the number of non-workers.
    If the numbers of elderly/non-workers keeps increasing and the number of workers required to support them therefore also keeps increasing aren't we in a loop that means the population has to keep on growing?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
    Actually I have the definitive answer to this. It's Spain. Because during the peak of the summer you will be paying a top tax rate of 15%

    Next question
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667
    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    R&W say SKS fans please explain I think

    "Keir Starmer March Polling Report Card:

    In the last month, Starmer has...

    – Seen LAB's lead in GB cut from 27% to 19%
    – Down 10% in approval in GB, 9% in Red Wall
    – Seen lead over Sunak as best PM cut to 3%
    – Seen LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration reduced"
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Indeed, though it may depend on the chap that is topping you. There is probably quite a bit of choice in Sitges.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
    Northwest Greece, perhaps. Montenegro?

    Northern Portugal and Galicia are still prone to grey weather in summer

    If you want inland maybe somewhere like Lozere in France. Cooled by forests and mountains, but sunny
    Simon Calder was, a few days ago, extolling the advantages of North Macedonia. Personally I would like to split my time between Thailand and North Essex.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    A bit windy?

    Where do we reckon has the best high summer climate in Europe? Best place to ge, weather wise, in July and August. Tricky one. Most of the med is too hot these days or at least at risk of being so. Central Europe hot and humid or wet, Northern Europe can be lovely but is unpredictable and might be a grey washout. Perhaps Northern Portugal and Galicia. La Rochelle up to Southern Brittany. The higher parts of the Sierra Nevada or Eastern Pyrenees foothills?
    Actually I have the definitive answer to this. It's Spain. Because during the peak of the summer you will be paying a top tax rate of 15%

    Next question
    Also 15% in Hungary, if you fancy something a bit more proto-dictatorshippy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Indeed, though it may depend on the chap that is topping you. There is probably quite a bit of choice in Sitges.
    Ewww no. I'd be one of those celibate gays. Who actually likes girls as well. In fact: only girls. Gayness would just be my "lived experience". I'd self identify as gay despite being obviously hetero
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    OllyT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OllyT said:

    WillG said:

    OllyT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Why do you think it might be?
    I can only speak for myself. The one thing the world could could easily get by without is further increases in population. Those that want to have children are freel to do so but the children are their responsibility.
    We happily pay taxes toward their education, healthcare and protection but beyond that it's down to the parents.

    If however humans don't intervene to protect other species and prevent the trashing of the planet in general then nobody else is going to. There is barely a problem that the world faces that isn't exacerbated by an ever-increasing population. Drought, famine, climate change, destruction of habitat. I guess my money goes to support animal and environmental charities because I don't believe that humans have the right to push everything else off the face of the earth,
    Without enough children in the next few generations, you will be screwed in retirememt. If you have a public pension and healthcare, they need to pay in the taxes to keep it going. If you have private healthcare, you need young people subsidizing the risk pools to keep premiums down. If you have a private pension, the rate of return on investment is only possible by having enough workers to keep growth going.

    Climate change and habitat destruction should be addressed by direct regulation on those things.
    So a constantly expanding Ponzi scheme in reality?
    It is not a Ponzi scheme to have a relatively fixed relationship between the number of workers and the number of non-workers.
    If the numbers of elderly/non-workers keeps increasing and the number of workers required to support them therefore also keeps increasing aren't we in a loop that means the population has to keep on growing?
    It is a Ponzi scheme if - and only if - life expectancy can rise infinitely.

    As it cannot, it is trivially and obviously not a Ponzi scheme.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    R&W say SKS fans please explain I think

    "Keir Starmer March Polling Report Card:

    In the last month, Starmer has...

    – Seen LAB's lead in GB cut from 27% to 19%
    – Down 10% in approval in GB, 9% in Red Wall
    – Seen lead over Sunak as best PM cut to 3%
    – Seen LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration reduced"
    Apart from that
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    It's ridiculous I can't go to Greece simply because they can't sort out their bloody bogs. I shall ask ChatGPT to compose a letter to the Hellenic Ambassador
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    Your team reeling in the hapless Loser Party and at some pace.
    My team? I think the best outcome for the next election would probably be a Lab/LD coalition with a one seat majority.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,384
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    I only went there for the train ride. Also, I was a tourist so no point being too sniffy about things being touristy. There's a nice beach and places to get food, so it was fine.
    The food is good in Soller, but it is overwhelmed with tourists

    That's why I prefer Palma - in Majorca. It's a proper city that is itself, it doesn't need tourists that much, and it easily absorbs those it has (most people head further out to the beaches and the coasts)
    Palma's fabulous. May I recommend my favourite hotel, in the middle of the old town, quiet, but with an adjacent plaza for late night drinks:
    https://www.posadaterrasanta.com/en/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    I only went there for the train ride. Also, I was a tourist so no point being too sniffy about things being touristy. There's a nice beach and places to get food, so it was fine.
    The food is good in Soller, but it is overwhelmed with tourists

    That's why I prefer Palma - in Majorca. It's a proper city that is itself, it doesn't need tourists that much, and it easily absorbs those it has (most people head further out to the beaches and the coasts)
    Yeah Palma is cool. There's an amazing restaurant there in an old wine cellar, can't remember what it was called but I remember being taken there by my aunt. We did experience what I think was a racist incident in Palma though, which wasn't so great.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    I only went there for the train ride. Also, I was a tourist so no point being too sniffy about things being touristy. There's a nice beach and places to get food, so it was fine.
    The food is good in Soller, but it is overwhelmed with tourists

    That's why I prefer Palma - in Majorca. It's a proper city that is itself, it doesn't need tourists that much, and it easily absorbs those it has (most people head further out to the beaches and the coasts)
    Palma's fabulous. May I recommend my favourite hotel, in the middle of the old town, quiet, but with an adjacent plaza for late night drinks:
    https://www.posadaterrasanta.com/en/
    Yeah I love Palma. It is overlooked, in a good way

    The one thing that might annoy me is the stupid dinner times, But that's OK, if I am going to be this weird gay but not gay character, reading Cavafy and smoking nanorillos, and constantly drunk on VROS Palo Cortado, I can insist on having solitary dinners at 7.30pm like a proper Englishman, while sneering at the Germans who dine at 5
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    I can definitely see you as a kind of Peter Wyngarde figure.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Has anyone suggested León to @Leon ?

    I have sometimes wondered if he drives a Seat Leon. If he had a grand house in Leon, we would be able to say that Leon has a seat in Leon where he parks his Seat Leon.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    ...

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    Your team reeling in the hapless Loser Party and at some pace.
    Honest question, but what do you want Labour to do?
    -Do you want them to shift to being a rejoin party?
    -Do you think Labour can win on a rejoin platform? Are they more likely to win on such a platform than accepting Brexit in the short to medium term?
    Labour are struggling because the voters want unicorns. The Conservatives own a unicorn farm, and Labour don't. Stop the boats unicorns, Rwandan unicorns and crush specific geographical location Asian groomer unicorns.

    Don't forget only Conservatives deliver on unicorn issues, Brexit was a copper bottomed unicorn. Brexit is done. There is no going back anytime soon.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,503

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    R&W say SKS fans please explain I think

    "Keir Starmer March Polling Report Card:

    In the last month, Starmer has...

    – Seen LAB's lead in GB cut from 27% to 19%
    – Down 10% in approval in GB, 9% in Red Wall
    – Seen lead over Sunak as best PM cut to 3%
    – Seen LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration reduced"
    You haven't noted that if the LDs continue their rise for a couple of years they will be at about 60% in the polls.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Has anyone suggested León to @Leon ?

    I have sometimes wondered if he drives a Seat Leon. If he had a grand house in Leon, we would be able to say that Leon has a seat in Leon where he parks his Seat Leon.
    It's actually worth doing that just to be able to say that. Nice

    SeanT can only live in Jean, which isn't quite as good

    HAH, in your face, weird stalker
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    edited April 2023

    ...

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    Your team reeling in the hapless Loser Party and at some pace.
    Honest question, but what do you want Labour to do?
    -Do you want them to shift to being a rejoin party?
    -Do you think Labour can win on a rejoin platform? Are they more likely to win on such a platform than accepting Brexit in the short to medium term?
    Labour are struggling because the voters want unicorns. The Conservatives own a unicorn farm, and Labour don't. Stop the boats unicorns, Rwandan unicorns and crush specific geographical location Asian groomer unicorns.

    Don't forget only Conservatives deliver on unicorn issues, Brexit was a copper bottomed unicorn. Brexit is done. There is no going back anytime soon.
    All Labour have to offer by contrast is horses. But they are at least the correct horses.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    Cadiz is surprisingly ancient. Something like the third or fourth oldest city in Europe. Those Phoenicians got about a bit.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Indeed, though it may depend on the chap that is topping you. There is probably quite a bit of choice in Sitges.
    Ewww no. I'd be one of those celibate gays. Who actually likes girls as well. In fact: only girls. Gayness would just be my "lived experience". I'd self identify as gay despite being obviously hetero
    You might as well go the whole hog. You never know, you might enjoy it once you get used to it. You could then be someone who is gay but identifies as straight
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    rcs1000 said:

    OllyT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OllyT said:

    WillG said:

    OllyT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Why do you think it might be?
    I can only speak for myself. The one thing the world could could easily get by without is further increases in population. Those that want to have children are freel to do so but the children are their responsibility.
    We happily pay taxes toward their education, healthcare and protection but beyond that it's down to the parents.

    If however humans don't intervene to protect other species and prevent the trashing of the planet in general then nobody else is going to. There is barely a problem that the world faces that isn't exacerbated by an ever-increasing population. Drought, famine, climate change, destruction of habitat. I guess my money goes to support animal and environmental charities because I don't believe that humans have the right to push everything else off the face of the earth,
    Without enough children in the next few generations, you will be screwed in retirememt. If you have a public pension and healthcare, they need to pay in the taxes to keep it going. If you have private healthcare, you need young people subsidizing the risk pools to keep premiums down. If you have a private pension, the rate of return on investment is only possible by having enough workers to keep growth going.

    Climate change and habitat destruction should be addressed by direct regulation on those things.
    So a constantly expanding Ponzi scheme in reality?
    It is not a Ponzi scheme to have a relatively fixed relationship between the number of workers and the number of non-workers.
    If the numbers of elderly/non-workers keeps increasing and the number of workers required to support them therefore also keeps increasing aren't we in a loop that means the population has to keep on growing?
    It is a Ponzi scheme if - and only if - life expectancy can rise infinitely.

    As it cannot, it is trivially and obviously not a Ponzi scheme.
    Whilst life expectancy obviously cannot rise indefinitely it has a very long way to go before it reaches developed nation levels in 80% of the world. World population growth is slowing but in absolute terms I don't think it is sustainable without there being major consequences for the planet (17 million net growth in the first 12 weeks of this year). Fortunately I won't be around to find out but I find human complacency quite fascinating at times.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    Has anyone suggested León to @Leon ?

    León is also a fine place. We went there last October for the first time. The cathedral is indescribably beautiful. The old town had the feel of one of those colonial backwaters you get in Garcia Marquez novels.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 28% (+1)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    REF: 5% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @RedfieldWilton
    , 02 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1642920221160747012

    R&W say SKS fans please explain I think

    "Keir Starmer March Polling Report Card:

    In the last month, Starmer has...

    – Seen LAB's lead in GB cut from 27% to 19%
    – Down 10% in approval in GB, 9% in Red Wall
    – Seen lead over Sunak as best PM cut to 3%
    – Seen LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration reduced"
    Apart from that
    You were right all along BJO. Tories rock!
  • Today I have a black and white cat!


    BTW this is a genuine, Royal Mail approved (their name is on the tag on the back), stuffed toy black and white cat called Jess, pet of Mr Patrick Clifton aka Postman Pat. I found it in my van today

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Meanwhile, Deltapoll continues to be all over the place!

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 27% (-3)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 5% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @DeltapollUK
    , 31 Mar - 03 Apr
  • Wow.

    A nationalist MSP caused an innocent woman to be investigated for a hate crime after she wrongly claimed opponents of Nicola Sturgeon’s gender self-ID laws had booked her a “malicious” bikini wax.

    Karen Adam, who represents Banffshire and Buchan Coast for the SNP, complained in December that she had been a victim of abuse and intimidation after she received an unsolicited confirmation for an intimate salon appointment.

    She publicly blamed critics of self-ID laws for making a booking “focused on my genitals” at the same time that a crunch Holyrood debate on the controversial gender laws was due to take place.

    However, the Telegraph understands that it took a police probe to find out that the incident was the result of an innocent mix-up at the Edinburgh salon.

    A woman with a very similar name to Ms Adam had tried to make a genuine appointment and the MSP got the confirmation email, in what police sources confirmed was an “administrative error”.

    Critics of Ms Adam said her reaction to receiving the email, which she also wrote about at length in a national newspaper column, exposed her “absurd persecution complex” and raised doubts over whether she was clever enough to be an MSP.


    It is understood that the woman who made the booking was phoned up by police and warned that she was at the centre of a hate crime probe, before it was established that the MSP had leapt to the wrong conclusion.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/03/snp-politician-karen-adam-hate-crime-gender-laws/

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    edited April 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    OllyT said:

    WillG said:

    OllyT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    Have you ever stopped to ponder why that might be?
    Why do you think it might be?
    I can only speak for myself. The one thing the world could could easily get by without is further increases in population. Those that want to have children are freel to do so but the children are their responsibility.
    We happily pay taxes toward their education, healthcare and protection but beyond that it's down to the parents.

    If however humans don't intervene to protect other species and prevent the trashing of the planet in general then nobody else is going to. There is barely a problem that the world faces that isn't exacerbated by an ever-increasing population. Drought, famine, climate change, destruction of habitat. I guess my money goes to support animal and environmental charities because I don't believe that humans have the right to push everything else off the face of the earth,
    Without enough children in the next few generations, you will be screwed in retirememt. If you have a public pension and healthcare, they need to pay in the taxes to keep it going. If you have private healthcare, you need young people subsidizing the risk pools to keep premiums down. If you have a private pension, the rate of return on investment is only possible by having enough workers to keep growth going.

    Climate change and habitat destruction should be addressed by direct regulation on those things.
    So a constantly expanding Ponzi scheme in reality?
    It is not a Ponzi scheme to have a relatively fixed relationship between the number of workers and the number of non-workers.
    It is if the ratio you are aiming at is only achievable with an ever-expanding population in order to avoid raising the retirement age.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Would end badly.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Indeed, though it may depend on the chap that is topping you. There is probably quite a bit of choice in Sitges.
    Ewww no. I'd be one of those celibate gays. Who actually likes girls as well. In fact: only girls. Gayness would just be my "lived experience". I'd self identify as gay despite being obviously hetero
    You might as well go the whole hog. You never know, you might enjoy it once you get used to it. You could then be someone who is gay but identifies as straight
    I'm FAR too toppy and I also hate sex via the Bakerloo Line

    I once had a famous TV celeb girlfriend - very beautiful then, oh so beautiful - who offered me the tradesman's entrance as a "birthday treat" and I did it for 3 seconds with fastidious distaste, then desisted with much relief

    We are past the lagershed, aren't we?

  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106

    Meanwhile, Deltapoll continues to be all over the place!

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 27% (-3)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 5% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @DeltapollUK
    , 31 Mar - 03 Apr

    I'm very new but do I say

    BJO please explain

    here?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Would end badly.


    Doesn't he just quietly expire on a beach, yearning for some nubile boy, while Mahler's Fifth plays in the background?

    Having recently witnessed death at close quarters, that's not a bad way to go. Sign me up. But make it a Montenegrin teen girl as the impossible object of aged desire
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,919
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Indeed, though it may depend on the chap that is topping you. There is probably quite a bit of choice in Sitges.
    Ewww no. I'd be one of those celibate gays. Who actually likes girls as well. In fact: only girls. Gayness would just be my "lived experience". I'd self identify as gay despite being obviously hetero
    You might as well go the whole hog. You never know, you might enjoy it once you get used to it. You could then be someone who is gay but identifies as straight
    I'm FAR too toppy and I also hate sex via the Bakerloo Line

    I once had a famous TV celeb girlfriend - very beautiful then, oh so beautiful - who offered me the tradesman's entrance as a "birthday treat" and I did it for 3 seconds with fastidious distaste, then desisted with much relief

    We are past the lagershed, aren't we?

    I'm sure we could winkle out her name from you
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,769

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Barcelona if I wanted to get stuff done. Galicia for bleak mornfulness. Not Seville; it's uninhabitable for three months a year. Maybe Granada.
    Estepona looks fun
    Donostia-San Sebastian has the best food and drink in Spain. Just 20 clicks from France too.
    But by Spanish standards, it has really shite weather

    If I'm gonna do this, I want my 2,500 hours of sun a year, minimum, and guaranteed long warm dry summers
    Majorca? Plenty of space there to avoid the tourists.
    A beautiful island but very damp in the winter.
    I have never found Majorca particularly beautiful? The fabled north coast, where Graves lived, is overrun with tourists and snooty little hotels

    The rest of it is quite meh. Menorca is lovelier, tho windy

    However I do really like Palma, the Majorcan capital

    My grandparents retired there back in the 1980s so I've been there quite a few times over the years. I only really know the area around Pollenca well, it is very pretty. I also love the old wooden train from Palma to Soller. I don't know the mega touristy bit in the South at all.
    Soller is also mega touristy
    ... and very expensive. I love Puerta de Pollensa.. going in Sept. Can't wait
    I reckon I've narrowed it down to Valencia, Estepona, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca

    Menorca is a just-possible, also Cadaques or Sitges

    Rent out my flat here - if I do this - spend winter in Bangkok
    Do you not think Sitges may be a little bohemian for a man of your apparent reactionary tendencies?
    I'm seriously thinking of turning gay for my Third Act

    Tiny dog, flamboyant cerise trousers, indolent wrist movements. Smoking tiny tiny tiny cigarillos as I sip my vintage sherry, alone, on my balcony. In Cadaques. Reading Cavafy

    There are worse fates
    Would end badly.


    I always think of Peter O'Toole in his stage performance of 'Geoffrey Bernard is Unwell' when such matters are discussed.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Has anyone suggested León to @Leon ?

    I have sometimes wondered if he drives a Seat Leon. If he had a grand house in Leon, we would be able to say that Leon has a seat in Leon where he parks his Seat Leon.
    It's actually worth doing that just to be able to say that. Nice

    SeanT can only live in Jean, which isn't quite as good

    HAH, in your face, weird stalker
    SeanT could be sean tea drinking in Leon's seat in León, where a while later he was driven in Leon's Seat Leon to a barbers, where he had his hair expertly shaun to a T
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Meanwhile, Deltapoll continues to be all over the place!

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 27% (-3)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 5% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @DeltapollUK
    , 31 Mar - 03 Apr

    Deltapoll fans please explain
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Look at this truly bizarre correlation. The first is American counties by life expectancy. The second is American counties by immigration. It seems Americans are fleeing the places where they live longest, so they can go to places where they die at 56

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/2b/ded3ody4cwe4.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/xa/asbf278oppg1.jpeg" alt="" />

    It’s all to do with the Covid response and crime levels. People are leaving LA, SF, Portland, and NY; heading to mostly Miami and Austin.
    It's all to do with personal tax levels, IMHO.

    The places people are leaving have high taxes, and the places they are going have low taxes.

    In my part of California, you pay:

    13% state income tax (which also applies to capital gains)
    11% sales tax
    Property tax based on the purchase price of your property. If you buy a $1m house, you will be paying c. $18,000/year in annual property taxes.

    By contrast, in Nevada there are dramatically lower property taxes and no state income tax.
    I’ll go with a fair bit of both. If you can WFH from Nevada or Texas, and don’t need to be in Silicon Valley five days a week, then of course you’ll leave.

    Policymakers and large companies are belatedly realising, that people really hated spending two or three or four hours a day commuting.
    In my day job I advise businesses on location, and the US is really unique in the way personal and property tax levels (as opposed to corporate taxes) have such a material effect. In the post-Covid WFH world this has definitely become more acute. It's also messing up a lot of companies' careful state tax planning that relied on them avoiding nexus in lots of states.

    In other countries it's a consideration - Switzerland's cantons being an example, German municipal taxes another - but much less marked.

    The US has this great advantage of federalism that hundreds of millions of people and thousands of businesses can simply jump in a car and move somewhere with the same language, currency and culture but different laws on almost everything: a giant 50 state experiment. The EU at least within Schengen is closer to that than it used to be, with the Euro and free movement, but language and culture are still much bigger barriers.
    The UK will soon face a major problem with unattached WFH freelancers effing off to Portugal, Spain, Greece to be digital nomads, with residency rights, paying much lower taxes, in the sun

    Look at the tax rate!


    "Remote workers can pay a reduced tax rate of 15 per cent during the first four years of their stay, provided they earn below €600,000 a year. This is instead of the usual 24 per cent rate."

    And note this, it allows Freedom of Movement

    "Remote workers can also apply for a residency card, which grants the ability to travel throughout the EU while living in Spain."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I am sorely tempted
    You need to have had a relationship with the Spanish company for three years before you can apply though.

    Or maybe your publications in Flint Knapper Espana would count?
    No, you don't. In fact it's the opposite. They don't want you to be working for Spanish companies (and taking work from Spaniards)

    "Spain's digital nomad visa is open to non-EU nationals who work remotely for non-Spanish companies. Applicants are allowed to get a maximum of 20 per cent of their income from Spanish firms

    Both self-employed freelancers with multiple clients and remote workers employed by a single company outside of Spain are eligible for the visa."

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-move-to-spain-a-new-digital-nomad-visa-could-let-you-stay-for-5-years

    I did not realise about the full-time employment bit. If I was a few years younger I would do it tomorrow. What a fantastic opportunity.

    I am literally applying right now. Brexit has just been rendered almost meaningless in terms of FoM

    The tax rate is hard to believe. 15%!!

    It's 15% they wouldn't otherwise get, so it's a win for them too. Do you have to show a list of clients etc?

    I believe so, but that's easily done for a freelancer

    I'm busily looking for the obvious catch, but I have yet to find it. It seems incredibly generous, and yet also clever. It will be a real menace to the economies of rainier countries

    I guess the catch is that you are restricted to the amount of time you can be in the UK for each year. Go over that and you are subject to tax here too. But it's not much of a catch.

    From the Spanish, Portuguese etc perspective they are getting well-established, well-paid freelancers earning well above the average wage, so even though the tax rate is lower the income is still pretty healthy - and the incomers are spending money every day too.

    Greece is doing it as well. If they had better bogs I'd probably go for Greece. A year on a beautiful island, with winter in Bangkok and 3 months in London in the late spring/summer? Sublime. That's pretty much a perfect lifestyle, if you have the ability to work from home, don't mind being a bit isolated, etc

    I have friends in Spain and Greece. This is a real temptation
    A lot of freelancers need Spain/Portugal for the better timezone.
    True. If I do this I will probably end up doing Spain. And the toilets are a real issue in Greece. UGH

    The food in Portugal is mediocre, it is amazing in much of Spain

    But where in Spain? If it's a big city the obvious choices are Barcelona or Malaga. But maybe it's time think out of the box
    Valencia is way nicer than either and cheaper and less touristic!
    I found Valencia.... pleasant. Nothing exceptional. Maybe I didn't look hard enough

    Is that where you are, @felix? Valencia?
    I've been a few times, it has beaches, great food, an old town and super modern science park all pretty close together. I'm in coastal/rural Almería - Europe's driest and sunniest enclaves. Very low key but more authentically Spanish than most of the country.
    Interesting, ta

    What I need is


    1. 2500 hours of sunshine, at least
    2. Good food. A wide choice of tapas bars etc
    3. Fairly close access to a major airport (no more than an hour, say)
    4. A bit of culture, maybe the odd interesting gallery. I'll still be coming back to London so I can get my major doses of culture in The Smoke
    5. Plenty of history, I want an old town with plazas
    6. A smattering of expats, I don't want to be the only non-Spaniard for 60 miles
    7. The sea, ideally: very close by. And some other interesting landscapes not too far away. Mountains would be great
    8. Not overwhelmingly hot in summer
    9. Not troubled by crime and decay like Barcelona

    Looking at that list, Valencia does tick nearly all the boxes

    Malaga is also worth considering on that basis and maybe Cadiz to be a bit left field. But Valencia would top the list.

    Cadiz is a good spot. Costal, so not frying pan hot. Lots of history, constrained so interestingly dense, Gibraltar and Malaga close enough by for when you need Little England.

    Tempting, very tempting (begone Satan!)
    Cadiz is lovely but that coast can be surprisingly damp especially in the winter with lots of morning fogs. A bit like San Francisco. It's the cold atlantic that does it.
This discussion has been closed.