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GE2019 CON voters much more likely to switch to LAB than vice versa – politicalbetting.com

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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,620
    TOPPING said:

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    I use my kindle every day, and have an idea Amazon has recently launched new models. Does Amazon release sales figures that differentiate between paper and kindle books?

    ETA it is possible demand for kindle devices has been reduced by saturation, less commuting, and use of kindle phone apps.
    Much as I like the physicality of holding something to read - books or, hitherto, a kindle - the modern fact is that putting the kindle app on your mobile allows you all the benefits of being able to read on the move as the kindle did but saves carrying an extra device.

    It's just a question of braving it out if everyone thinks you're on tiktok or playing candy crush.
    I find kindle devices easier to read than the kindle phone app (less glare, I suppose) and the particular model I have fits perfectly in my trouser pocket.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,388

    Australia becoming a republic and scrapping the monarchy is “inevitable” even though Australians are proud to have the King as their head of state, the country’s new high commissioner has said.

    In his first interview since moving to London, Stephen Smith said most British people would be “indifferent” to Australia getting rid of the monarchy and said it would not damage the countries’ relationship.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inevitable-australia-dump-king-charles-republicans-labor-kwq5b8tl8

    The High Commissioner is wrong, at least 52% of Brits will be chuffed that another country is following the UK's lead and getting rid of their unelected rulers.

    Why on earth should we care what some new High Commissioner appointed by an Australian Labor government thinks about the monarchy?

    For starters he is from the Australian Capital Territory which voted for a Republic even in 1999 when 55% of Australians voted to keep the monarchy
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    On thread, delving deeper into the Opinium tables throws up some interesting insights into the 5% of Green voters and 7% of Reform voters in that Opinium poll.

    Of the Green voters, only 24% would definitely or "probably in the future" consider voting Conservative, whereas 67% would consider voting Labour. No real surprises there, if the 5% Green vote is squeezed at a GE it would be substantively to Labour's benefit.

    Reform is more interesting. 53% would definitely or "probably in the future" consider voting Conservative, but 39% would consider voting Labour. What is a surprise is that the figures are so close, so while any erosion of the 7% Reform vote is going to help the Conservatives the benefit to them won't be as marked as might have been assumed.

    PS. The Opinium tables also give an interesting insight into the potential for tactical voting to and from the Lib Dems.

    Of the current Lib Dem voters, 33% would definitely or "probably in the future" consider voting Conservative, but 65% would consider voting Labour. The fact that current LDs are amenable to potentially voting Labour is significant, so there is considerable potential there for Labour in Lab-Con contests where they can exert a tactical squeeze.

    Of those who would definitely or "probably in the future" consider voting Lib Dem in the future, the figure for current Conservative voters is 24% and current Labour voters 31%. Those figures are relatively low but may I think simply reflect the fact that the LDs aren't seen as being in contention in that many seats. In their target seats the figures would be higher - evidence from by-elections like Shropshire North clearly supports that.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,353
    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,081
    Teacher strikes back on.

    Based on the teachers I chat to, the government's offer seems to have made them even crosser than they were before.

    https://twitter.com/NEUnion/status/1642799424525987844
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,353

    Teacher strikes back on.

    Based on the teachers I chat to, the government's offer seems to have made them even crosser than they were before.

    https://twitter.com/NEUnion/status/1642799424525987844

    Support staff are out too it seems. So something of an escalation.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,353
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    What has that got to do with failures of Northern councils?
    We only know that only Northern councils are involved (apart from Oxford) because no cases have been reported.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,119
    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yeah; the flipside of "you have a massive electoral mountain to climb to get to a majority" is "anybody who stuck with you at the base of the trough is unlikely to be drifting elsewhere now".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    Teacher strikes back on.

    Based on the teachers I chat to, the government's offer seems to have made them even crosser than they were before.

    https://twitter.com/NEUnion/status/1642799424525987844

    That's my experience too. Particularly after buying off the train drivers.

    In any case, in effect it wasn't a pay offer. Without extra money, nobody will be getting it. It was a headline grabber, and a dishonest headline grabber. As bad as the worst days of Blair and Campbell (which is saying quite something given - ahem - their record on that subject).

    That announcer comes as a gurning fool though. Why couldn't they have found someone who didn't smirk and slurp every word?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,582
    Japan’s bear meat vending machine proves a surprising success
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/03/japans-bear-meat-vending-machine-proves-a-surprising-success

    A new frontier for Casino ?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
    12% of CURRENT (IE. not 2019) Conservative voters would definitely or "probably in the future" consider switching to Labour. The figure in the opposite direction is 9%. 54% of CURRENT Conservatives would never vote Labour, 65% of CURRENT Labour would never vote Conservative.

    So in terms of current VI, the Lab vote still looks a tad more solid than the Conservative one.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,868

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
    12% of CURRENT (IE. not 2019) Conservative voters would definitely or "probably in the future" consider switching to Labour. The figure in the opposite direction is 9%. 54% of CURRENT Conservatives would never vote Labour, 65% of CURRENT Labour would never vote Conservative.

    So in terms of current VI, the Lab vote still looks a tad more solid than the Conservative one.
    I wonder what figure you would have got if you'd polled the Red Wall in 2015?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    ...
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    It's got nothing to do with the cultural provenance of the perpetrators; it's all about the social class of the victims. If they had been beasting girls from Roedean instead of chavs from care homes they would have been locked up and the key thrown away at the first sniff.

    The tories want to make it a racial issue because that appeals to their feebleminded gammony members.
    I think too that Braverman and Sunak are not comfortable describing Asian grooming gangs, and want to emphasise the Muslim nature of them. It plays well to the Hindutva tendencies of many British Indians.
    Yes, there were callers of Indian Sub-Continent heritage calling Nick Ferrari to make a big deal of the specific geographical heritage origin of the grooming gangs. Ferrari of course was lapping it up.

    It's a handy little dog whistle for the Conservatives today, a multi pronged attack on the forces of wokery. It encompasses Labour is weak on "foreigners" (the wrong kind of "foreigners") Labour is weak on nonces and Labour is weak on criminals. After 26 years of weak Labour governments perhaps Suella and Richie Rich are onto something.

    For what it's worth the Government do have a point on the failures of Northern Labour Councils.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,253
    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    And just to add icing to the cake, Mrs J's now tested positive as well. And she's recovering from a lung infection...

    Covid's a nasty bu**er.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,135
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    What has that got to do with failures of Northern councils?
    You'd get a lot more support for a local council providing funding for an animal rescue charity then you do for them funding care homes for children. Similar in Ireland. The country's only pig rescue charity made the national news because it had no more room to take in ex-pet pigs. The obvious remedy to this problem was not mentioned. Care home kids are not so sympathetic a figure for the national news.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,582

    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    And just to add icing to the cake, Mrs J's now tested positive as well. And she's recovering from a lung infection...

    Covid's a nasty bu**er.

    Get well soon, JJ.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,868

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    It's got nothing to do with the cultural provenance of the perpetrators; it's all about the social class of the victims. If they had been beasting girls from Roedean instead of chavs from care homes they would have been locked up and the key thrown away at the first sniff.

    The tories want to make it a racial issue because that appeals to their feebleminded gammony members.
    I think too that Braverman and Sunak are not comfortable describing Asian grooming gangs, and want to emphasise the Muslim nature of them. It plays well to the Hindutva tendencies of many British Indians.
    Yes, there were callers of Indian Sub-Continent heritage calling Nick Ferrari to make a big deal of the specific geographical heritage origin of the grooming gangs. Ferrari of course was lapping it up.

    It's a handy little dog whistle for the Conservatives today, a multi pronged attack on the forces of wokery. It encompasses Labour is weak on "foreigners" (the wrong kind of "foreigners") Labour is weak on nonces and Labour is weak on criminals. After 26 years of weak Labour governments perhaps Suella and Richie Rich are onto something.

    For what it's worth the Government do have a point on the failures of Northern Labour Councils.
    The idea that seeing these grooming gangs as Muslim grooming gangs is a dog whistle and racist is precisely how they got away with it for so long.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,119

    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    Mmm, having dodged it and all other coughs, colds and miscellaneous respiratory ailments since 2019 I finally caught it a couple of weeks ago. It does seem to be rather variable in how hard it hits. For me it was mostly "moderately bad cold" level but the tail end of it has been dragging on annoyingly (it was 2 weeks before I stopped testing positive for it and I still have a bit of a cough). Hope you both have a mild dose and recover quickly.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,353

    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    And just to add icing to the cake, Mrs J's now tested positive as well. And she's recovering from a lung infection...

    Covid's a nasty bu**er.

    Oh dear! Nasty. Every sympathy!
    If it’s any consolation, brother-and sister-in-law have just had it. Recovered very quickly positive test on Saturday; negative test the following Saturday. Both in their 70s, with other nasty conditions.
  • HYUFD said:

    Australia becoming a republic and scrapping the monarchy is “inevitable” even though Australians are proud to have the King as their head of state, the country’s new high commissioner has said.

    In his first interview since moving to London, Stephen Smith said most British people would be “indifferent” to Australia getting rid of the monarchy and said it would not damage the countries’ relationship.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inevitable-australia-dump-king-charles-republicans-labor-kwq5b8tl8

    The High Commissioner is wrong, at least 52% of Brits will be chuffed that another country is following the UK's lead and getting rid of their unelected rulers.

    Why on earth should we care what some new High Commissioner appointed by an Australian Labor government thinks about the monarchy?

    For starters he is from the Australian Capital Territory which voted for a Republic even in 1999 when 55% of Australians voted to keep the monarchy
    The barriers to an Australian Republic are actually quite high - for a start, there has not been much progress in coming up with a solution that satisfies the different strands (elected Head of State, figurehead etc). More problematic, the Australian constitution is difficult to change and, given there is no political consensus and it is one of those issues which has a cultural edge to it (professional urbanities in favour, rural conservatives against), it is hard to see it getting the necessary legs.

    To borrow a quote from here on the grooming gangs, it looks like the High Commissioner is merely throwing a dog whistle out to the Labor supporters back home.
  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106
    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,135
    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    It's got nothing to do with the cultural provenance of the perpetrators; it's all about the social class of the victims. If they had been beasting girls from Roedean instead of chavs from care homes they would have been locked up and the key thrown away at the first sniff.

    The tories want to make it a racial issue because that appeals to their feebleminded gammony members.
    I think too that Braverman and Sunak are not comfortable describing Asian grooming gangs, and want to emphasise the Muslim nature of them. It plays well to the Hindutva tendencies of many British Indians.
    Yes, there were callers of Indian Sub-Continent heritage calling Nick Ferrari to make a big deal of the specific geographical heritage origin of the grooming gangs. Ferrari of course was lapping it up.

    It's a handy little dog whistle for the Conservatives today, a multi pronged attack on the forces of wokery. It encompasses Labour is weak on "foreigners" (the wrong kind of "foreigners") Labour is weak on nonces and Labour is weak on criminals. After 26 years of weak Labour governments perhaps Suella and Richie Rich are onto something.

    For what it's worth the Government do have a point on the failures of Northern Labour Councils.
    The idea that seeing these grooming gangs as Muslim grooming gangs is a dog whistle and racist is precisely how they got away with it for so long.
    Not really. The main issue is that the victims were seen as chav girls, and so weren't the right sort of victim, similar to the way in which lots of female victims of sexual violence are dismissed by the police. The race angle was useful as a deflecting tactic for the individuals who should have done something to avoid responsibility for their failure. And the right lapped it up and let them get away with it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
    12% of CURRENT (IE. not 2019) Conservative voters would definitely or "probably in the future" consider switching to Labour. The figure in the opposite direction is 9%. 54% of CURRENT Conservatives would never vote Labour, 65% of CURRENT Labour would never vote Conservative.

    So in terms of current VI, the Lab vote still looks a tad more solid than the Conservative one.
    Maybe it is just that Labour supporters have more hate in their hearts for those that disagree with them than Conservatives do?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,716
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic

    I love headers that speak to me, a disaffected 2019 Cons voter, directly. And I know I'm not alone on this board.

    I currently couldn't vote for the Cons, nor for Lab.

    Cons would have to further detoxify and stop formulating policy for and only for the ERG, while Lab would have to lose the class anger and realise that if they want to appeal to the broad masses they must stop seeing the country in terms of "us" and "them".

    Of course they (Lab) can continue with the us and them and eat the rich thing but as we have seen in the past this is a short term strategy as they will find out soon enough that there aren't enough of "them" to provide taxes for "us" and hence will inevitably turn on the next cohort down in wealth. And then the next. And then everyone is paying more which won't be what they will have voted for.

    Interesting. But for me, as a disaffected Tory at GEs, I could and shall vote Labour this time. I never thought once about voting for Blair.

    I am sure the party membership is pretty ghastly. But so are they all. SKS and generally those round him are not 'eat the Tory' types (of course there are exceptions). And SKS has a degree of humility and lack of judgemental certainty Blair didn't have (ultimately this destroyed him).

    Lab/LD cobbling will be the best option.

    This is interesting. I think you are probably the most reliable political weather vane on this site. Most of us on here, me included, have an irrationally strong degree of party loyalty. I suspect that if you vote Labour they will win a majority!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,253
    "Manchester Arena bomb survivors have filed landmark legal action against a conspiracy theorist who claims the attack was faked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65136825
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,716

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
    12% of CURRENT (IE. not 2019) Conservative voters would definitely or "probably in the future" consider switching to Labour. The figure in the opposite direction is 9%. 54% of CURRENT Conservatives would never vote Labour, 65% of CURRENT Labour would never vote Conservative.

    So in terms of current VI, the Lab vote still looks a tad more solid than the Conservative one.
    Maybe it is just that Labour supporters have more hate in their hearts for those that disagree with them than Conservatives do?
    The Conservatives have been in power for 13 years and have given a lot of people plenty of reasons to hate them. Personally I don't hate the Tories - I view them like Renton views the English in Trainspotting.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,375
    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic

    I love headers that speak to me, a disaffected 2019 Cons voter, directly. And I know I'm not alone on this board.

    I currently couldn't vote for the Cons, nor for Lab.

    Cons would have to further detoxify and stop formulating policy for and only for the ERG, while Lab would have to lose the class anger and realise that if they want to appeal to the broad masses they must stop seeing the country in terms of "us" and "them".

    Of course they (Lab) can continue with the us and them and eat the rich thing but as we have seen in the past this is a short term strategy as they will find out soon enough that there aren't enough of "them" to provide taxes for "us" and hence will inevitably turn on the next cohort down in wealth. And then the next. And then everyone is paying more which won't be what they will have voted for.

    Interesting. But for me, as a disaffected Tory at GEs, I could and shall vote Labour this time. I never thought once about voting for Blair.

    I am sure the party membership is pretty ghastly. But so are they all. SKS and generally those round him are not 'eat the Tory' types (of course there are exceptions). And SKS has a degree of humility and lack of judgemental certainty Blair didn't have (ultimately this destroyed him).

    Lab/LD cobbling will be the best option.

    Apart from being a recipient and target demographic, which I can live with, it is the disingenuousness of the eat the rich mentality and rhetoric that is a barrier to me voting Lab. They pretend that a wealth tax on "the rich" is not only well-deserved (fair enough) but will pay for the hundreds of billions required (and announced in 2019) for the eg "Green Transformation Fund" and the "Social Transformation Fund" (total cost: £400bn in 2019 money).
    Agreed. We have to live with the multi party realities of disingenuous rubbish. It would be impossible to vote at all if you applied ordinary standards of truth and transparency, especially to questions of tax and spend.

    In the end voters are accountable for this. Voters don't vote much for plain speaking truth tellers about money, the limits of the state and a few other things.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,671

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    I use my kindle every day, and have an idea Amazon has recently launched new models. Does Amazon release sales figures that differentiate between paper and kindle books?

    ETA it is possible demand for kindle devices has been reduced by saturation, less commuting, and use of kindle phone apps.
    I can't be doing with it. I have tried but reading a paper book is n times better for me..
    I find kindles easier to read. They are lighter, and I can adjust the text size up or down and even change the typeface. However, I am more likely to recall where I've read something in the dead tree version. The second-hand book market has shrunk: even charity shops decline them.
    The second hand book market hasn't shrunk, it's moved online and concentrated around a few large sellers. World of Books has a massive percentage of the second hand market. They buy for pennies, and sell for a reasonable price - not charity shop low, but very competitive with most of the old second hand shops.
    It used to be Abe books but I think Amazon bought them and the choice seems to have reduced dramatically. Where have all the second hand onlime bookshops gone?
    Abe has pretty much always been ridiculously priced.
    There are lots of small sellers online through eBay. And there are other online sellers like Second Story appearing a lot in my twitter and Facebook feeds.
    Ty
    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    Not sure you are aware but politics by its very nature is confrontational. Thought this might help you a bit.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,135

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
    12% of CURRENT (IE. not 2019) Conservative voters would definitely or "probably in the future" consider switching to Labour. The figure in the opposite direction is 9%. 54% of CURRENT Conservatives would never vote Labour, 65% of CURRENT Labour would never vote Conservative.

    So in terms of current VI, the Lab vote still looks a tad more solid than the Conservative one.
    Maybe it is just that Labour supporters have more hate in their hearts for those that disagree with them than Conservatives do?
    I'm very unlikely to vote either Conservative or Labour at the next election, though it's at least possible I would vote Labour, while I'd say I would never vote Conservative.

    I really don't think that this is motivated by hatred of Tories. I recognise that I have some fundamental differences of belief to most Tories, and I find this disappointing and frustrating, but I don't hate Tories for this.

    The polling result is most likely a function of the fact that the Tories are currently in government, and have been so for now than a decade, and so are actively doing things to annoy people that Labour haven't had the opportunity to do for some time.
  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106
    I’ve been lurking for a long time and @algarkirk’s post is a revelation. The Tories are in trouble.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,375
    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,645
    Sean_F said:

    Heathener said:



    And then I stop and realise I'm being brazenly hypocritical because I would have probably answered in such a way that I would have been included in either the 56% or the 40%. How many other PBers fall into one or other of those two categories?

    I have voted for 4 political parties in my lifetime: all 3 main ones and the Greens.

    I would never vote for this current bunch of hate-filled immoral Conservatives, but they were not ever thus.
    Consider me sceptical that you have ever voted Conservative.
    I've voted Tory, along with Labour, LD and Green. My favourite politician is Ken Clarke. Regularly assumed to be a lefty by government supporters on here, but not ideological at all, favour pragmatism over ideology as passionately as some favour a particular flavour of ideology.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,375
    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yup. Filed under #NoShitSherlock
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,727

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    I use my kindle every day, and have an idea Amazon has recently launched new models. Does Amazon release sales figures that differentiate between paper and kindle books?

    ETA it is possible demand for kindle devices has been reduced by saturation, less commuting, and use of kindle phone apps.
    I can't be doing with it. I have tried but reading a paper book is n times better for me..
    I find kindles easier to read. They are lighter, and I can adjust the text size up or down and even change the typeface. However, I am more likely to recall where I've read something in the dead tree version. The second-hand book market has shrunk: even charity shops decline them.
    The second hand book market hasn't shrunk, it's moved online and concentrated around a few large sellers. World of Books has a massive percentage of the second hand market. They buy for pennies, and sell for a reasonable price - not charity shop low, but very competitive with most of the old second hand shops.
    It used to be Abe books but I think Amazon bought them and the choice seems to have reduced dramatically. Where have all the second hand onlime bookshops gone?
    Abe has pretty much always been ridiculously priced.
    There are lots of small sellers online through eBay. And there are other online sellers like Second Story appearing a lot in my twitter and Facebook feeds.
    Ty
    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    Not sure you are aware but politics by its very nature is confrontational. Thought this might help you a bit.
    You are absolutely right that it is and does seem to be everywhere. It is sad that it is. It would be great if people could acknowledge their differences, try and understand why they differ and compromise. This only seems to happen in a national emergency. Outside of politics people mostly don't do this on a daily basis. Obviously people do get into disputes, but on a day to day basis we don't.
  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Keir Starmer spoke with authority on dealing with sexual abuse this morning. It's a special subject for him obviously.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,645
    Foxy said:

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    They do have a couple of advantages over phone and tablet kindle apps. The screen is better in sunlight, and they hold enough charge for weeks of usage. Good for travellers off the beaten track.
    The best kindle was the first one for me, felt like a book. When it got damaged, I got an updated one, and it felt like a tablet computer so never used it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,506

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    Yes.
    That was very much my first reaction to the header.
    What's more, they are switching in precisely the numbers to give that lead.
    Not revelatory really.
    12% of CURRENT (IE. not 2019) Conservative voters would definitely or "probably in the future" consider switching to Labour. The figure in the opposite direction is 9%. 54% of CURRENT Conservatives would never vote Labour, 65% of CURRENT Labour would never vote Conservative.

    So in terms of current VI, the Lab vote still looks a tad more solid than the Conservative one.
    I agree with Mike that the figures are significant, since the current overlal lead could be made up entirely of Tories switching to Don't Know and LibDems switching to Labour. A year ago IIRC there was very little switching Con-Lab, and that seems more solid then relying on differential turnout.

    Meanwhile, in Australia, Labor is doing well:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Aston_by-election
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    And just to add icing to the cake, Mrs J's now tested positive as well. And she's recovering from a lung infection...

    Covid's a nasty bu**er.

    Sorry to hear that! I’ve only had it once (that I know of) and the only clue that it might be more than a heavy cold was I was off my food.

    You know the drill, rest and plenty of fluids - though the former may be easier said than done with a young’un!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,388
    edited April 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Australia becoming a republic and scrapping the monarchy is “inevitable” even though Australians are proud to have the King as their head of state, the country’s new high commissioner has said.

    In his first interview since moving to London, Stephen Smith said most British people would be “indifferent” to Australia getting rid of the monarchy and said it would not damage the countries’ relationship.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inevitable-australia-dump-king-charles-republicans-labor-kwq5b8tl8

    The High Commissioner is wrong, at least 52% of Brits will be chuffed that another country is following the UK's lead and getting rid of their unelected rulers.

    Why on earth should we care what some new High Commissioner appointed by an Australian Labor government thinks about the monarchy?

    For starters he is from the Australian Capital Territory which voted for a Republic even in 1999 when 55% of Australians voted to keep the monarchy
    The barriers to an Australian Republic are actually quite high - for a start, there has not been much progress in coming up with a solution that satisfies the different strands (elected Head of State, figurehead etc). More problematic, the Australian constitution is difficult to change and, given there is no political consensus and it is one of those issues which has a cultural edge to it (professional urbanities in favour, rural conservatives against), it is hard to see it getting the necessary legs.

    To borrow a quote from here on the grooming gangs, it looks like the High Commissioner is merely throwing a dog whistle out to the Labor supporters back home.
    Yes, inner city graduates and wealthy liberal elite Australians have always been for a Republic. Even a few Liberal Party leaders like Turnbull not just senior Labor politicians.

    However out in suburban Australia there is much less enthusiasm and in rural Australia solid opposition to becoming a Republic. Remember polls show 40% of Australians will even vote against giving Aborigines a voice in Parliament in the referendum later
    this year let alone for a Republic which 55% rejected in 1999
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,411

    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    And just to add icing to the cake, Mrs J's now tested positive as well. And she's recovering from a lung infection...

    Covid's a nasty bu**er.

    Get well soon, and hope it’s not too bad for you. Bloody thing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,003
    edited April 2023
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11928613/Tory-MP-wakes-naked-brothel-unable-clothes-calls-senior-colleague-help.html

    Any ideas who this might be - the tagline "I'm a naked Tory MP stuck in a brothel... get me out of here!" hints towards an MP who is actually now independent.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited April 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    What should worry the Conservatives is that Labour support is firmer than Conservative support, as expressed now. The Conservatives need to win back some of that lost support to avoid a landslide but are more likely to lose even more support, according to these tables.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,715
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, hope you and your lady wife recover quickly.

    Welcome back, Mr. B.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,645
    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    It's got nothing to do with the cultural provenance of the perpetrators; it's all about the social class of the victims. If they had been beasting girls from Roedean instead of chavs from care homes they would have been locked up and the key thrown away at the first sniff.

    The tories want to make it a racial issue because that appeals to their feebleminded gammony members.
    I think too that Braverman and Sunak are not comfortable describing Asian grooming gangs, and want to emphasise the Muslim nature of them. It plays well to the Hindutva tendencies of many British Indians.
    Yes, there were callers of Indian Sub-Continent heritage calling Nick Ferrari to make a big deal of the specific geographical heritage origin of the grooming gangs. Ferrari of course was lapping it up.

    It's a handy little dog whistle for the Conservatives today, a multi pronged attack on the forces of wokery. It encompasses Labour is weak on "foreigners" (the wrong kind of "foreigners") Labour is weak on nonces and Labour is weak on criminals. After 26 years of weak Labour governments perhaps Suella and Richie Rich are onto something.

    For what it's worth the Government do have a point on the failures of Northern Labour Councils.
    The idea that seeing these grooming gangs as Muslim grooming gangs is a dog whistle and racist is precisely how they got away with it for so long.
    Protecting the vulnerable children would involve something like:

    Recognising fear of being labelled racist was an issue in a significant but minority proportion of cases
    Massive increase in funding for social care
    Massive pay rises for social workers
    Professionalisation of social workers
    Significant increase in funding for police
    Modernisation of police and recognition of its institutional failures
    Significant increase in funding for courts

    Government response looks more like:

    Recognising fear of being labelled racist was an issue
    Underfunding social workers, police and courts
    Refusing to recognise the institutional failures of police, blaming it on a few bad apples instead
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,582

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    I use my kindle every day, and have an idea Amazon has recently launched new models. Does Amazon release sales figures that differentiate between paper and kindle books?

    ETA it is possible demand for kindle devices has been reduced by saturation, less commuting, and use of kindle phone apps.
    I can't be doing with it. I have tried but reading a paper book is n times better for me..
    I find kindles easier to read. They are lighter, and I can adjust the text size up or down and even change the typeface. However, I am more likely to recall where I've read something in the dead tree version. The second-hand book market has shrunk: even charity shops decline them.
    The second hand book market hasn't shrunk, it's moved online and concentrated around a few large sellers. World of Books has a massive percentage of the second hand market. They buy for pennies, and sell for a reasonable price - not charity shop low, but very competitive with most of the old second hand shops.
    It used to be Abe books but I think Amazon bought them and the choice seems to have reduced dramatically. Where have all the second hand onlime bookshops gone?
    Abe has pretty much always been ridiculously priced.
    There are lots of small sellers online through eBay. And there are other online sellers like Second Story appearing a lot in my twitter and Facebook feeds.
    Ty
    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    Not sure you are aware but politics by its very nature is confrontational. Thought this might help you a bit.
    Fine use of "anymore", though.
    I must have missed the PB days of consensus.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,388
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the Conservatives won a landslide victory in 2019 and Labour has a clear lead in the polls it would be astonishing if 2019 Conservative voters were not more likely to switch to Labour than the reverse

    What should worry the Conservatives is that Labour support is firmer than Conservative support, as expressed now. The Conservatives need to win back some of that lost support to avoid a landslide but are more likely to lose even more support, according to these tables.
    Until the leaders debates which could change things
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,671

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    Never... surely not !
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,582

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, hope you and your lady wife recover quickly.

    Welcome back, Mr. B.

    Very kind of you, MD.
    I was away only a few hours, though.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
    Good to see new posters here 👍
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,671
    They .. you mean CH B was more than one person posting. .... Like a Labour HQ bot... lol
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    The NEU ballot result is quite remarkable. On an increased turnout (66%), 98% have rejected the government's offer. That's extraordinarily high, and shows how pissed off teachers are. I suspect the government will have to move.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    I don't for a second believe Sunak is a racist but if you seriously believe an Indian cannot hate Pakistani Muslims you don't need to look any further tsan Modi.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.
  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106
    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,126

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    This is probably the calculation a fair number of people will make. Do Labour's numbers add up, and if they don't, what will they do? Will it mean people like me paying more taxes? Or will Labour just carry on doing what the Tories are doing?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    No. You are not supposed to dox anyone, of whatever political persuasion.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,003

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    I thought you lived in Guernsey
  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106

    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    No. You are not supposed to dox anyone, of whatever political persuasion.
    Well you only have to look up, for people doing it to @CorrectHorseBattery3
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,081

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    Has Starmer promised that much? There are a lot of people projecting hopes onto him, sure, but that's somewhat different.

    I don't get the feeling that many people are expecting a Blairite new dawn, so much as the grim working through of a hangover after a big (but surprisingly unenjoyable) night out. Not quite the full-on Doctor's Mandate, but something in that direction. How that plays out depends on how much Idiot Premium the UK is currently paying, how quickly a new government can reduce that, and how convincingly Team Starmer can say "we knew things were bad, but are still shocked at the mess the Tories left for us to clear up" for four years.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,868
    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    Everything Before The But...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,835
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Guns, drugs, obesity, road deaths..

    It fuels demand for more healthcare as well as the access problems America already has.

    Problems at high-end as well with drug addicted wealthy families and higher proportion of suicides. The gap for young people between 20-40 is very sad.

    Not very strong correlated with race either, which is an obsession but not in the data.

    The correlation is with social class, despite the media and campaign groups obsessing about race.

    Just as in the UK, it’s the WWC who get ignored.
    I don't think most elites care about lower classes, except to view them with utter disdain or to romanticise and patronise them.
    They care a lot about lower classes - specifically they care about keeping them in their place.
    Also, their votes.
    Or at least keeping them not voting.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    edited April 2023

    Heathener said:

    Good morning. Interesting.

    The hatred towards the Conservatives is continuing unabated. If you doubt this, go out into the streets and listen.

    I've never known anything like it. A seachange has occurred. They are going to get hammered at the next General Election.

    Rinse and repeat.

    It’s absolutely fine to have this view.

    But you state it day after day. No evidence, no data to support it. Just a statement of opinion.

    You may well be right (personally I suspect a hung Parliament with a labour government).

    But it’s dull and repetitive to just start every thread with the same statement.
    I feel the same when someone posts something Tory supportive and the famous five -Felix Casino Carlotta Driver and Sandpit-press the 'like' button. It's like there's a PB Tory 'whip' that's being organised in the background.

    It can be the most fatuous post on the board but the 'likes from the cheerleaders are like clockwork. In fact so predictable is a felix 'like' that I worry for his well being if he misses one.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    We all have different priorities and humanity has had a malign effect on everything else on the planet. Unsurprising that some people want to do what they can to try to rectify that. After centuries of experience the corrupt and the greedy and the downright evil are still rising to the top, no lessons ever really learned.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,375

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic

    I love headers that speak to me, a disaffected 2019 Cons voter, directly. And I know I'm not alone on this board.

    I currently couldn't vote for the Cons, nor for Lab.

    Cons would have to further detoxify and stop formulating policy for and only for the ERG, while Lab would have to lose the class anger and realise that if they want to appeal to the broad masses they must stop seeing the country in terms of "us" and "them".

    Of course they (Lab) can continue with the us and them and eat the rich thing but as we have seen in the past this is a short term strategy as they will find out soon enough that there aren't enough of "them" to provide taxes for "us" and hence will inevitably turn on the next cohort down in wealth. And then the next. And then everyone is paying more which won't be what they will have voted for.

    Interesting. But for me, as a disaffected Tory at GEs, I could and shall vote Labour this time. I never thought once about voting for Blair.

    I am sure the party membership is pretty ghastly. But so are they all. SKS and generally those round him are not 'eat the Tory' types (of course there are exceptions). And SKS has a degree of humility and lack of judgemental certainty Blair didn't have (ultimately this destroyed him).

    Lab/LD cobbling will be the best option.

    This is interesting. I think you are probably the most reliable political weather vane on this site. Most of us on here, me included, have an irrationally strong degree of party loyalty. I suspect that if you vote Labour they will win a majority!
    Thanks! Weather vanes are useful of course but they don't make the weather and are blown around in all directions. My predictive powers are zero, and make all bookmakers cheerful.

    Any party loyalty I once had has been demolished by a series of events beginning with Cameron's resignation following the Brexit referendum, when, having rightly initiated it he then was unprepared for the consequence in every possible respect. Apart from patchy bits of competence (Covid, response to Ukraine), the Tory record has been immoral, politically useless, venal and a shameful disgrace. It is notable that older senior Tories have hardly a word to say in its support.

    Even Hunt (who is their best hope) has produced fiscal policies (pension tax regime) recently which essentially gave large free gifts to the already well off and little or nothing to the middling and poor.

    All politics is relative because someone has to win even when they all deserve to lose. Labour have the people power and resource to lose all their advantages in a fortnight. SKS knows this perfectly well.

    This weather vane's advice to SKS. Put Abbott, Burgon and co in the cellar; and take care over House of Lords reform. An absolute NO to an elected second chamber. Finally, promise an open post-election review of post-Brexit arrangements.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,375
    edit
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,253

    In other news, I've got Covid. Came down with it suddenly on Saturday. If this is how it makes a fairly fit 50-year old who has had three or four jabs feel, then goodness knows how it makes the more vulnerable feel.

    And just to add icing to the cake, Mrs J's now tested positive as well. And she's recovering from a lung infection...

    Covid's a nasty bu**er.

    Sorry to hear that! I’ve only had it once (that I know of) and the only clue that it might be more than a heavy cold was I was off my food.

    You know the drill, rest and plenty of fluids - though the former may be easier said than done with a young’un!
    Thanks to all for their kind wishes.

    If you want to know how blooming awful I feel... wait for it...

    I don't even feel up to arguing on PB!

    ;)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    No. You are not supposed to dox anyone, of whatever political persuasion.
    Well you only have to look up, for people doing it to @CorrectHorseBattery3
    Where has anything personably identifiable been written about CHB3?
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dox

  • Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    No. You are not supposed to dox anyone, of whatever political persuasion.
    Well you only have to look up, for people doing it to @CorrectHorseBattery3
    Wouldn’t everyone need to know who CHB really is for it to be a doxxing?

    And if you’re not CHB, then you haven’t been doxxed
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,868
    Roger said:



    Heathener said:

    Good morning. Interesting.

    The hatred towards the Conservatives is continuing unabated. If you doubt this, go out into the streets and listen.

    I've never known anything like it. A seachange has occurred. They are going to get hammered at the next General Election.

    Rinse and repeat.

    It’s absolutely fine to have this view.

    But you state it day after day. No evidence, no data to support it. Just a statement of opinion.

    You may well be right (personally I suspect a hung Parliament with a labour government).

    But it’s dull and repetitive to just start every thread with the same statement.
    I feel the same when someone posts something Tory supportive and the famous five -Felix Casino Carlotta Driver and Sandpit-press the 'like' button. It's like there's a PB Tory 'whip' that's being organised in the background.

    It can be the most fatuous post on the board but the 'likes from the cheerleaders are like clockwork. In fact so predictable is a felix 'like' that I worry for his well being if he misses one.
    Who even wastes time looking at who has liked what?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,955
    edited April 2023
    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    It's got nothing to do with the cultural provenance of the perpetrators; it's all about the social class of the victims. If they had been beasting girls from Roedean instead of chavs from care homes they would have been locked up and the key thrown away at the first sniff.

    The tories want to make it a racial issue because that appeals to their feebleminded gammony members.
    I think too that Braverman and Sunak are not comfortable describing Asian grooming gangs, and want to emphasise the Muslim nature of them. It plays well to the Hindutva tendencies of many British Indians.
    Yes, there were callers of Indian Sub-Continent heritage calling Nick Ferrari to make a big deal of the specific geographical heritage origin of the grooming gangs. Ferrari of course was lapping it up.

    It's a handy little dog whistle for the Conservatives today, a multi pronged attack on the forces of wokery. It encompasses Labour is weak on "foreigners" (the wrong kind of "foreigners") Labour is weak on nonces and Labour is weak on criminals. After 26 years of weak Labour governments perhaps Suella and Richie Rich are onto something.

    For what it's worth the Government do have a point on the failures of Northern Labour Councils.
    The idea that seeing these grooming gangs as Muslim grooming gangs is a dog whistle and racist is precisely how they got away with it for so long.
    That these crimes were ignored purely because the police were scared to be called racist is a pale imitation of the truth. Class prejudice and misogyny were also in the mix and at least as influential. The basic problem was the victims were not taken seriously. And who were they? They were white disadvantaged girls. Only if a person sees the issue mainly as an opportunity to score culture war points (eg Braverman) will they choose to focus on the 'political correctness' angle and ignore the other 2 factors.
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 499

    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    No. You are not supposed to dox anyone, of whatever political persuasion.
    Well you only have to look up, for people doing it to @CorrectHorseBattery3
    Where has anything personably identifiable been written about CHB3?
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dox

    I think they have the wrong internet slang:

    A sock puppet is defined as a person whose actions are controlled by another.[1] It is a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, and is often used to refer to alternative online identities or user accounts used for purposes of deception.... One reason for sockpuppeting is to circumvent a block, ban, or other form of sanction imposed on the person's original account
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,786

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    Has Starmer promised that much? There are a lot of people projecting hopes onto him, sure, but that's somewhat different.

    I don't get the feeling that many people are expecting a Blairite new dawn, so much as the grim working through of a hangover after a big (but surprisingly unenjoyable) night out. Not quite the full-on Doctor's Mandate, but something in that direction. How that plays out depends on how much Idiot Premium the UK is currently paying, how quickly a new government can reduce that, and how convincingly Team Starmer can say "we knew things were bad, but are still shocked at the mess the Tories left for us to clear up" for four years.
    Google Social Transformation Fund and Green Transformation Fund for Lab's spending plans.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    Has Starmer promised that much? There are a lot of people projecting hopes onto him, sure, but that's somewhat different.

    I don't get the feeling that many people are expecting a Blairite new dawn, so much as the grim working through of a hangover after a big (but surprisingly unenjoyable) night out. Not quite the full-on Doctor's Mandate, but something in that direction. How that plays out depends on how much Idiot Premium the UK is currently paying, how quickly a new government can reduce that, and how convincingly Team Starmer can say "we knew things were bad, but are still shocked at the mess the Tories left for us to clear up" for four years.
    There was the “Green New Deal” which the Tories costed at £90bn - but no one knows as it’s all gloriously unspecific. This week has brought us a “council tax freeze” funded by a “proper” windfall tax, what ever one of those is. So while we’re a way out from a GE the gap between spending ideas and revenue raising ideas is concerning.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,253

    On grooming gangs:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65160429

    "Ahead of the launch, Mr Sunak said: "The safety of women and girls is paramount.. ..."

    While the large majority of victims in Rotherham were girls, there were around a hundred or more boys who were victims. It's important people don't forget that, otherwise they'll be looking at a situation with one eye closed.

    All IMV: I fear a mistake many people make about rape and sexual abuse is assuming that it is all about sex. Of course much of it is, but there's also a power component as well: by doing this act, I have power over you. And the more degrading the act (in the eyes of the victim or perpetrator), the greater the power exerted.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,727
    OllyT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Morning all! I agree with @Heathener - the public mood is mutinous. And the latest Tory obscenity is the attack on British men of Pakistani heritage.

    Yes, we have a few examples of Pakistani "grooming gangs" which the authorities ignored. But she's basically just given all the white men who do this the green light to not be suspected.

    They *can't* be a nonce. They have white skin. Just like Jimmy Saville . This is crayon politics aimed at genuinely ignorant people who have had this weaponised by certain newspapers as a stick to beat anyone with funny skin. Or anyone who actually has a faith unlike the ignorant white racist.

    Before anyone says I am being exclusionary, I am not. Some heinous acts have been carried out by British men of Pakistani heritage. As well as by white men of non-Pakistani heritage. Personally I think we should go after criminals - hard to do when the government have gutted the justice system.

    I feel for you

    an Asian PM and and Asian home secretary so you cant cry racist.

    You must be gutted.
    Laughable. This is a policy written in crayon to stoke racism. BTW "Asian" is itself racist when you are claiming that a Hindu PM and an Indian-heritage HS are the same as people of Pakistani origin.

    Can't be racist? You ever heard Indians and Pakistanis going at each other? This is someone from one heritage branding people of a different heritage to all be perverts. It is *inherently racist.

    Growing up in Rochdale in the 1980s, "paki" what white person shorthand for all the Asians in the town. Despite the reality that we had sizable communities from India. Kashmir. Bangladesh. And yes Pakistan. Branding anyone with brown skin as a unitary group - "Asian" in your case - is as ignorant as my Gran calling the Indian family next door "the Pakis"

    It is 2023. Really sad to read that level of ignorance is live and well. Then again we know this - that policy is aimed square at them.
    Ive sat in rooms with hindus sikhs and buddhists and what they say about the muslims would have me put in jail if I said it.

    And thats the point, you and your pastey faced cohorts run around yelling racism when there is no equal application of the law and all that counts is which group meets your virtue signalling twaddle this week.

    So having experienced Asian on Asian racism yourself - as I have - why have you said that the HS can't be racist towards a different Asian heritage?

    You mention equal application of the law. Growing up in Rochdale the local monster was Cyril Smith. Who got away with it. In more recent times the monsters have been Pakistani heritage. Who got away with it.

    If inbuilt racism is the reason why we don't apply the law equally, why do we keep having appalling cases where mass offenders eventually get caught? If racism is why the Pakistani heritage gang members took so long to get caught, was it also racism that the same system ignored Smith?

    Not the smartest thing you have ever posted.
    It was plain that there was a very great reluctance on the part of the authorities to deal with the concerns raised by Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion due to its being “ a cultural matter.”

    But overall, I’ve reached the conclusion that too many people in authority really are unbothered by child abuse, unless it’s done to their own children.
    It's very sad, Britons are far more interested in animals than children.
    We all have different priorities and humanity has had a malign effect on everything else on the planet. Unsurprising that some people want to do what they can to try to rectify that. After centuries of experience the corrupt and the greedy and the downright evil are still rising to the top, no lessons ever really learned.
    @Casino_Royale makes a good point and one could argue that we should be more focused on wars, starvation, etc, etc, but people are odd at it is often impacted by what affects us personally. I get involved in a lot of campaigns of injustice, but they are all money based where people have been screwed by Governments or Commercial companies. I am involved in two currently (one Government, one Commercial). Sometimes I sit back and think these are first world problems and I should be focused on 3rd world problems, but I guess I know I am good at resolving one of these and feel my efforts on 3rd world problems would be a pin prick so I do what I can. Feels wrong though sometimes.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,868

    On grooming gangs:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65160429

    "Ahead of the launch, Mr Sunak said: "The safety of women and girls is paramount.. ..."

    While the large majority of victims in Rotherham were girls, there were around a hundred or more boys who were victims. It's important people don't forget that, otherwise they'll be looking at a situation with one eye closed.

    Absolutely. But sexual violence is like domestic violence - men don't count (politically).
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    I didn't vote Conservative in the last two GEs. I might well return at the next one. The idea of a Labour majority is pretty worrying for me. I think Starmer is a solid human being and will probably be a good PM, but it is the rest of them that concern me. Particularly the fact that they have a hatred for anyone that lives outside their urban view of the world and they seem to be only interested in promoting the vested interests of the bloated and inefficient public sector.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,003
    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    Hi. Welcome to the site :)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285
    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
    Oh, was CHB banned? What for?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Driver said:

    Roger said:



    Heathener said:

    Good morning. Interesting.

    The hatred towards the Conservatives is continuing unabated. If you doubt this, go out into the streets and listen.

    I've never known anything like it. A seachange has occurred. They are going to get hammered at the next General Election.

    Rinse and repeat.

    It’s absolutely fine to have this view.

    But you state it day after day. No evidence, no data to support it. Just a statement of opinion.

    You may well be right (personally I suspect a hung Parliament with a labour government).

    But it’s dull and repetitive to just start every thread with the same statement.
    I feel the same when someone posts something Tory supportive and the famous five -Felix Casino Carlotta Driver and Sandpit-press the 'like' button. It's like there's a PB Tory 'whip' that's being organised in the background.

    It can be the most fatuous post on the board but the 'likes from the cheerleaders are like clockwork. In fact so predictable is a felix 'like' that I worry for his well being if he misses one.
    Who even wastes time looking at who has liked what?
    I've never liked anything but if we had a 'Despise' link I'd be spamming that fucker more often than Nadine fakes a jellyfish sting to get Johnson to piss on her.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285
    Driver said:

    Roger said:



    Heathener said:

    Good morning. Interesting.

    The hatred towards the Conservatives is continuing unabated. If you doubt this, go out into the streets and listen.

    I've never known anything like it. A seachange has occurred. They are going to get hammered at the next General Election.

    Rinse and repeat.

    It’s absolutely fine to have this view.

    But you state it day after day. No evidence, no data to support it. Just a statement of opinion.

    You may well be right (personally I suspect a hung Parliament with a labour government).

    But it’s dull and repetitive to just start every thread with the same statement.
    I feel the same when someone posts something Tory supportive and the famous five -Felix Casino Carlotta Driver and Sandpit-press the 'like' button. It's like there's a PB Tory 'whip' that's being organised in the background.

    It can be the most fatuous post on the board but the 'likes from the cheerleaders are like clockwork. In fact so predictable is a felix 'like' that I worry for his well being if he misses one.
    Who even wastes time looking at who has liked what?
    Roger does. He is constantly disappointed at his low tally lol
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,576

    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
    Oh, was CHB banned? What for?
    Called someone a c-word. He could easily ask for Robert to unban him, if he was so inclined as I've also been banned for that.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285
    MaxPB said:

    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
    Oh, was CHB banned? What for?
    Called someone a c-word. He could easily ask for Robert to unban him, if he was so inclined as I've also been banned for that.
    Oh that is a shame. The c-word can be so descriptive. I didn't realise it was proscribed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,353
    edited April 2023
    TBH I sometimes look at “Likes” that’s I’ve got, if only to see if there are any surprises. It’s also heartening to get quite a few when someone reports being ill.
    I can well understand a poster, like Mr Jessop, getting a lot for his reports of Covid suffering!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,353

    MaxPB said:

    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
    Oh, was CHB banned? What for?
    Called someone a c-word. He could easily ask for Robert to unban him, if he was so inclined as I've also been banned for that.
    Oh that is a shame. The c-word can be so descriptive. I didn't realise it was proscribed.
    You don’t have to use the whole word. Not that I ever would, even abbreviated.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,576

    MaxPB said:

    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    As a long-time lurker, it is sad that this site is having abuse flung both ways these days. Nobody seems willing to get on or concede any ground anymore, what a shame.

    "long-time lurker" lol! You joined a fortnight ago and have had 60 posts since then.

    Anyone might think you used to post here under another name.... ;)
    This is my first and only account. I was inspired by @CorrectHorseBattery3’s posts to start posting myself. I hope they will be allowed back one day
    Oh, was CHB banned? What for?
    Called someone a c-word. He could easily ask for Robert to unban him, if he was so inclined as I've also been banned for that.
    Oh that is a shame. The c-word can be so descriptive. I didn't realise it was proscribed.
    It's bad for advertisers. Loads of them refuse to run ads on sites which allow it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285

    Horse_B said:

    Horse_B said:

    I am a new poster but I understood on this site people are not supposed to doxx others, I wonder if it only applies to people they agree with politically.

    No. You are not supposed to dox anyone, of whatever political persuasion.
    Well you only have to look up, for people doing it to @CorrectHorseBattery3
    Wouldn’t everyone need to know who CHB really is for it to be a doxxing?

    And if you’re not CHB, then you haven’t been doxxed
    If it were the latter, might he not then be known as Incorrect Horse Battery?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,135
    edited April 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Driver said:

    Roger said:



    Heathener said:

    Good morning. Interesting.

    The hatred towards the Conservatives is continuing unabated. If you doubt this, go out into the streets and listen.

    I've never known anything like it. A seachange has occurred. They are going to get hammered at the next General Election.

    Rinse and repeat.

    It’s absolutely fine to have this view.

    But you state it day after day. No evidence, no data to support it. Just a statement of opinion.

    You may well be right (personally I suspect a hung Parliament with a labour government).

    But it’s dull and repetitive to just start every thread with the same statement.
    I feel the same when someone posts something Tory supportive and the famous five -Felix Casino Carlotta Driver and Sandpit-press the 'like' button. It's like there's a PB Tory 'whip' that's being organised in the background.

    It can be the most fatuous post on the board but the 'likes from the cheerleaders are like clockwork. In fact so predictable is a felix 'like' that I worry for his well being if he misses one.
    Who even wastes time looking at who has liked what?
    I've never liked anything but if we had a 'Despise' link I'd be spamming that fucker more often than Nadine fakes a jellyfish sting to get Johnson to piss on her.
    Reckon we're such a disputatious lot that if we had a dislike button then dislikes would outnumber likes by a ratio of at least 4:1.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,230

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    yes they are my old original still going strong , though they will not download books to it any more , but I get them on my tablet and can then still read them on it. They have lots of fancy new ones but not sure how popular they are nowadays as you can use any tablet etc.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,081

    I would never in a million years have voted for a Johnson/Truss Conservatives- might vote for a Sunak led one but that depends on him keeping the nutters in place. I live in a pretty safe Labour seat in any case - with a decent MP - so we’ll see nearer the time. I expect I’ll be worse off under a Labour government but some of that will be down to fixing current iniquities - what worries me is there aren’t enough “rich” to remotely pay for all that Labour have promised - so there will be tears before bedtime.

    I didn't vote Conservative in the last two GEs. I might well return at the next one. The idea of a Labour majority is pretty worrying for me. I think Starmer is a solid human being and will probably be a good PM, but it is the rest of them that concern me. Particularly the fact that they have a hatred for anyone that lives outside their urban view of the world and they seem to be only interested in promoting the vested interests of the bloated and inefficient public sector.
    First question is whether making Starmer dependent on Lib Dem votes would make the government better or worse. Comparing 2010-15 and 2015-now might well be an argument that minority government is better government, though I suspect that it would also be less conservative (and Conservative-friendly) than a Labour majority.

    Next question is whether such a thing can be engineered. I like the theory that the UK electorate does a decent job of using FPTP to pick the PM they overall want and give that PM the sort of a majority that's consistent with the Will Of The People. But right now the landing zone for "Labour needing Lib Dem consent but able to ignore the SNP" still looks pretty small and hard to hit.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285

    TBH I sometimes look at “Likes” that’s I’ve got, if only to see if there are any surprises. It’s also heartening to get quite a few when someone reports being ill.
    I can well understand a poster, like Mr Jessop, getting a lot for his reports of Covid suffering!

    You are a lot more polite than me though OKC, to be fair
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,253

    TBH I sometimes look at “Likes” that’s I’ve got, if only to see if there are any surprises. It’s also heartening to get quite a few when someone reports being ill.
    I can well understand a poster, like Mr Jessop, getting a lot for his reports of Covid suffering!

    I fear that if I gave a blow-by-blow account of what's coming out of my nostrils and lungs, it'd get a whole load of dislikes. And a ban,.. ;)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285

    On grooming gangs:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65160429

    "Ahead of the launch, Mr Sunak said: "The safety of women and girls is paramount.. ..."

    While the large majority of victims in Rotherham were girls, there were around a hundred or more boys who were victims. It's important people don't forget that, otherwise they'll be looking at a situation with one eye closed.

    This is a very valid complaint. It seems that for many in politics and the media abused boys and young men are not as worthy of our sympathy or the state's protection.

    It exasperates me that whenever domestic abuse or coercive control is discussed then it is inferred that only women are victims, as though the men who experience it are in some way pathetic folk who should be ignored.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,835
    As predicted.
    Pretty sure this waltz has gone on in the lead up to most recent Scottish elections (though not usually this far out): SCons suggest tactical voting coalition, SLab state they wouldn’t touch it with a shitty stick, SCons moan on about being the only party who’ll protect the Union.


  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,285
    malcolmg said:

    Quick question. Are Kindles still a thing? It must be years since I saw anyone use one or even mention them.

    yes they are my old original still going strong , though they will not download books to it any more , but I get them on my tablet and can then still read them on it. They have lots of fancy new ones but not sure how popular they are nowadays as you can use any tablet etc.
    I never realised you could get Join The Dots or colouring in books on Kindle.
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