It seems we are joining the CPTPP of 11 other nations and unlike the EU it is a pure trading block not political
Our influence in this hugely important trading area and with AUKUS is welcome, and while it is not yet as important as trading with the EU it is where the fastest growth is expected
Jim McFadden, Shadow Secretary to the treasury, did reference CPTPP as a fast growth area and labour would support our membership as well as encouraging closer relationship with the EU
I would just comment this is not CPTPP good, EU bad, but both are important and Sunak’s closer relationship with the EU is a prerequisite to putting behind the Johnson/ Truss negative attitudes and I expect Starmer would continue much in the same vein to both trading blocks
OBR forecasts it will add 0.08% to the size of our economy.....over 10 years.
The importance of this block is future growth in membership and of course China has already applied
As Badenoch has just commented, it is strategic for the future as in about 7 years 40% of the global middle class will be in the Indo-Pacific
She went on to say it is more like buying a start up and high will become huge in the future and commented this is not about replacing the EU but complimenting it
Just think, if it really accelerates, in 20 years time it might even add 0.5% to the size of our economy.
Many will be cynical maybe as some see it as a threat to our relationship with the EU but that would be wrong
It is good Labour are supporting it and that opportunities for trade are opening up worldwide
No, its not about the EU, it is simply an irrelevance, not even a rounding error on our future prosperity.
It is not in the top 50 things the government should be doing. Perhaps it is in the 50-100 category but it is nothing to be excited by.
Bit like finding a penny when you are a pound short for a cup of coffee
Nah, it is like being promised a penny, in ten years time, when you are a pound short of a cup of coffee now.
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
Think big
EU joins the CPTPP - why not?
There is no major incompatibility between their trading standards!
Not because they are EU standards....most standards are iso standards and adopted by both the EU and CPTPP.
Try all you like to make it sound like people are adopting eu standards they really aren't, they are adopting the same standards as the eu is adopting
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Only if you believe the BMAs position uncritically (as you do).
I’ve know idea whether it’s a misrepresentation or not. But you are asserting as a fact that Barclay did something wrong based purely on an allegation by his opponents
The BMA has stated many times that they have put no preconditions of any sort on talks.
I an not a BMA supporter BTW. I am in the HCSA.
My understanding is that the government has said that any settlement will only be on a similar basis to other proposals (ie an increase and a one time bonus)
The BMA has said that is unacceptable and that they won’t move from their initial starting position of 35%
Both are putting preconditions on the meeting - actually both are already negotiating.
My criticism is not that (although I think the BMA is negotiating poorly). My criticism is that you immediately jumped to Barclay “misleading parliament”
Nope, the BMA have repeatedly said they are putting no preconditions on talks including their opening demand.
Incidentally Barclay has made no offer of the same deal as NHS other staff either.
There you go again assuming the BMA are speaking gospel truth
I’m basing my comments on the BBC article last week.
Barclays has said that a massive catch up pay rise is not possible so no point in meeting to discuss it and that any deal would have to be a pay rise + a one time payment (which is crap for employees IMV so not sure why other unions have put it to their members unless they have judged it’s the best available).
The BMA have said that a massive pay rise needs to be on the table.
Both are putting preconditions for meeting - this is already part of the negotiations
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
HMG will listen to the voters, and surely the 60% of them that currently are in favour of rejoining the EU will be swayed by the growth offered by the CPTPP? I predict that 60% may be reduced by as much as 0.08% over 10 years.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
The EU is actively sabotaging the tech sector with laws even as we speak.....think of the ban on GM products and the heinous digital services act for a start. Though its true the uk is trying to catch up with the malevolent online safety bill
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
My, memories are short!
The first Covid vaccine to be approved was the BioNTech vaccine, developed in Germany and marketed and produced by Pfizer. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved subsequently. The UK was the first country to approve a Covid vaccine, which was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Edit: And Asia was a long way behind both Europe and the US in developing a vaccine.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
Yes, CPTPP was just conjured up as a way to supplement the Boris Brexit Boosterism. Fair enough that nice Mr Sunak decided it would be churlish not to continue with it, but he mustn't let it impinge upon later, more vital initiatives. Rishi needs to be both ruthless and flexible in those scenarios. If CPTPP has to go, it has to go.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
It's in the spirit of Brexit itself - a decision that in 250 years or so might look smart if you crane your neck and squint.
Like this ... at least the Japanese do this for fun.
Report of newly released (but dated 7-10.3) @PanelbaseMD polling of #indyref2 vi, plus Westminster and Holyrood. election voting is at https://bit.ly/3ouYAz0
So the SNP were starting to go down the pan whilst Stugeon was at the helm. Now they have someone useless at the wheel,we are likely talking crossover this year. Nothing would please me more than to see a substantial Labour majority in Scotland if only to.preserve the Union
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Report of newly released (but dated 7-10.3) @PanelbaseMD polling of #indyref2 vi, plus Westminster and Holyrood. election voting is at https://bit.ly/3ouYAz0
So the SNP were starting to go down the pan whilst Stugeon was at the helm. Now they have someone useless at the wheel,we are likely talking crossover this year. Nothing would please me more than to see a substantial Labour majority in Scotland if only to.preserve the Union
Ms Sturgeon had made her resignation klnown well before that.
Is not the most significant aspect of joining the CPTTPP that it gives the U.K. a veto over the future accession of China? Would the U.K. accept their membership if both the US and EU were opposed?
A UK veto is redundant in that situation because Japan would be vetoing already.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
HMG will listen to the voters, and surely the 60% of them that currently are in favour of rejoining the EU will be swayed by the growth offered by the CPTPP? I predict that 60% may be reduced by as much as 0.08% over 10 years.
Entry into the CPTPP was Liz Truss's entry into the politicians lifetime achievement awatds
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
Yes, CPTPP was just conjured up as a way to supplement the Boris Brexit Boosterism. Fair enough that nice Mr Sunak decided it would be churlish not to continue with it, but he mustn't let it impinge upon later, more vital initiatives. Rishi needs to be both ruthless and flexible in those scenarios. If CPTPP has to go, it has to go.
Don't tell me we'll be able to leave the CPTPP as well if we decide to.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
Think big
EU joins the CPTPP - why not?
There is no major incompatibility between their trading standards!
Not because they are EU standards....most standards are iso standards and adopted by both the EU and CPTPP.
Try all you like to make it sound like people are adopting eu standards they really aren't, they are adopting the same standards as the eu is adopting
We largely wrote the EEA standards. My point isn't what you call them, it is that we have largely compatible standards across a big chunk of the globe. So why is our government wanting to diverge from these standards instead of remaining aligned to them? Why does a UK standard which is different from the EEA/CPTPP standard better for Britain?
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
Yes, CPTPP was just conjured up as a way to supplement the Boris Brexit Boosterism. Fair enough that nice Mr Sunak decided it would be churlish not to continue with it, but he mustn't let it impinge upon later, more vital initiatives. Rishi needs to be both ruthless and flexible in those scenarios. If CPTPP has to go, it has to go.
Yes, it's amazing how cooperative Canada, Japan and the rest have been to create a wide ranging international trade agreement just for Boris - and in advance of when he needed it too.
Is not the most significant aspect of joining the CPTTPP that it gives the U.K. a veto over the future accession of China? Would the U.K. accept their membership if both the US and EU were opposed?
A UK veto is redundant in that situation because Japan would be vetoing already.
Good point, does that mean it’s misleading to suggest that the deal is potentially worth more than 0.08% on GDP because China will join in the future?
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does.
So much the better, we could have provided that innovation and thus become the dominant player in the EU.
Or the other way around, the EU stifles the innovation out of the economy and like the rest of the continent we just accept the slow decline while watching Asia rise to dominance wondering whether we made the right choice.
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
My, memories are short!
The first Covid vaccine to be approved was the BioNTech vaccine, developed in Germany and marketed and produced by Pfizer. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved subsequently. The UK was the first country to approve a Covid vaccine, which was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Edit: And Asia was a long way behind both Europe and the US in developing a vaccine.
China had two vaccines approved before the UK approval of Pfizer (CanSino in China and Sinopharm in UAE & Bahrain).
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
A large share of the most innovative businesses come out of Europe - not just in life sciences but tech and fintech, food science (that mammoth meatball was from a Dutch company), agricultural technology, automotive and even public sector - look at Estonia's electronic citizenship.
Where Europe (including the UK) isn't successful is in throwing the billions of VC and then scale up capital at those innovations to turn them into global monopolistic giants, like the Americans can.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens there as/if the Valley pyramidal money-go-round collapses.
Report of newly released (but dated 7-10.3) @PanelbaseMD polling of #indyref2 vi, plus Westminster and Holyrood. election voting is at https://bit.ly/3ouYAz0
So the SNP were starting to go down the pan whilst Stugeon was at the helm. Now they have someone useless at the wheel,we are likely talking crossover this year. Nothing would please me more than to see a substantial Labour majority in Scotland if only to.preserve the Union
Ms Sturgeon had made her resignation klnown well before that.
Resigned 15th Feb not surprising effect seen a few weeks later.
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
DA will be buying a Maxi at this rate.
Supercharged VMax maybe: middle aged cruiser appeal, but also the potential to kill yourself at a very high velocity due to the combo of 240bhp and 'average' handling.
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
DA will be buying a Maxi at this rate.
Or take up Morris dancing.
I refer you to the words of Sir Thomas Beecham.
Which ones? He made a great many. My personal favourite is the one about the horse.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
Yes, signing up to a trading block the other side of the world rather than one on one's doorstep makes perfect sense.
Horses for courses
The EU isnt just a trading bloc it is a commitment to a political project. If youre in you take on all the other shit.
CPTPP is just about trading. Suits me.
But there's a terrible price for not being in it.
That was the extent of the Remain campaign's argument in 2016, which is why they lost. And if Rejoiners can't find a better argument, they'll never win.
Did you really need an advertising campaign to explain something to you that most 16 year olds could work out for themselves?
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
The HYUFD-ian ploy of pulling in DKs to aid your cause? Well played sir, well played.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
My, memories are short!
The first Covid vaccine to be approved was the BioNTech vaccine, developed in Germany and marketed and produced by Pfizer. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved subsequently. The UK was the first country to approve a Covid vaccine, which was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Edit: And Asia was a long way behind both Europe and the US in developing a vaccine.
Apart from Moderna I think all the eventually successful vaccines were developed from primary research carried out under the EU's HORIZON project. The EU's weakness was not funding a rapid development programme, but it sorted that out in the end. Overall successful, I think, and more than anywhere else.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Generous of you to provide an example of that behaviour.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Having checked out the omnisis site I can already see a slight flaw in the polling it is this
Sample geography All residents aged 18+ living in the UK
Now we have about 6 million residents that wouldn't get to vote because while residents they aren't uk citizens so 1 in 7 of the sample possibly doesn't get a vote anyway but are biassed to rejoin
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than embarrassing yourself further.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
There's a big disconnect between what people say and mean. People generally do want closer relations and free trade with the EU, they also generally don't want to have free movement or join the single market.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
Yes, signing up to a trading block the other side of the world rather than one on one's doorstep makes perfect sense.
Horses for courses
The EU isnt just a trading bloc it is a commitment to a political project. If youre in you take on all the other shit.
CPTPP is just about trading. Suits me.
But there's a terrible price for not being in it.
That was the extent of the Remain campaign's argument in 2016, which is why they lost. And if Rejoiners can't find a better argument, they'll never win.
Did you really need an advertising campaign to explain something to you that most 16 year olds could work out for themselves?
If your competitor is selling their product effectively, it can out-compete your product even if objectively it's a worse product.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than embarrassing yourself further.
Too late, he's off down the 'wrong methodology' rabbit hole now.
I overtook an MG3 (on the inside, LOL) last week and despite the 80mph speed difference I could see that the alignment was so far out it was practically going down the road sideways. It was on a 71 plate...
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
Finally accepting middle age. Not an easy choice I'm sure.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Because the surveys are generally not the full picture. Asking 'Rejoin, yes or no' is not what would be the reality. The EU isn't going to let us back in under the same terms we left. It would be see the UK with no rebate, paying more in, and reduced voting rights. Now people may still opt for that, but thats not what they are polling on.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than embarrassing yourself further.
It shouldn't be in referendum questions. Losing the DKs distorts the data.
The sour grapes over CPTPP here today could start a vinegar factory.
Not reading any sour grapes. Haven't we all said its worth doing?
I was just on a conference call with the DBT - the new dept made of bits of BEIS and DIT - covering CPTPP as well as updates on other negotiations (they do regular sessions updating industry panels on progress).
Perfectly decent agreement and good news so long as it doesn’t inhibit future integration with the EU, which it shouldn’t do. But even they were quick to emphasise the limited nature of the benefits. It’s a nice to have. And largely important for geopolitical and soft power reasons, which shouldn’t be underestimated.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Depends what you do with the Don't Knows, of course...
4/ #Brexit sentiment appears to have stabilised, with little significant movement this week:
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
We did do it, of course, but then had to hand everything back.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
Think big
EU joins the CPTPP - why not?
There is no major incompatibility between their trading standards!
Not because they are EU standards....most standards are iso standards and adopted by both the EU and CPTPP.
Try all you like to make it sound like people are adopting eu standards they really aren't, they are adopting the same standards as the eu is adopting
We largely wrote the EEA standards. My point isn't what you call them, it is that we have largely compatible standards across a big chunk of the globe. So why is our government wanting to diverge from these standards instead of remaining aligned to them? Why does a UK standard which is different from the EEA/CPTPP standard better for Britain?
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than embarrassing yourself further.
It might be standard practise but that doesn't make it right, the size of don't know is important because even if don't know when polled doesn't mean they won't vote in an actual vote, netting off don't knows is a misleading practise regardless of the poll subject in my view
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
There's a big disconnect between what people say and mean. People generally do want closer relations and free trade with the EU, they also generally don't want to have free movement or join the single market.
I dont think public opinion will really start to crystallise on this topic until such time as the debate reaches the higher levels of our political parties and it becomes a topic on the political agenda.
Until such point “rejoin” doesn’t really consider the practicalities of the situation or what a “rejoin” proposition would be.
I agree it does measure the level of sympathy for closer European integration of a basic level though, and that is important as a way of getting that debate going. If anyone thinks this debate is going to start before the next GE though, it’s not.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Generous of you to provide an example of that behaviour.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Having checked out the omnisis site I can already see a slight flaw in the polling it is this
Sample geography All residents aged 18+ living in the UK
Now we have about 6 million residents that wouldn't get to vote because while residents they aren't uk citizens so 1 in 7 of the sample possibly doesn't get a vote anyway but are biassed to rejoin
There are also Brits living outside the UK, many of whom (yes, I know not all) would vote to Rejoin. Leaving has made their lives a bit more difficult.
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
My, memories are short!
The first Covid vaccine to be approved was the BioNTech vaccine, developed in Germany and marketed and produced by Pfizer. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved subsequently. The UK was the first country to approve a Covid vaccine, which was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Edit: And Asia was a long way behind both Europe and the US in developing a vaccine.
China had two vaccines approved before the UK approval of Pfizer (CanSino in China and Sinopharm in UAE & Bahrain).
Well yes, but they were working on the vaccines prior to the release of their bioweapon (right?)
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Depends what you do with the Don't Knows, of course...
4/ #Brexit sentiment appears to have stabilised, with little significant movement this week:
Right. So 49% said they want to rejoin, not 60%. You could perhaps net off the DKs and claim that Rejoin would win a referendum tomorrow by 60-40, but you can't claim that 60% "want to rejoin" because you're including in that 11% who explicitly don't know if they want to rejoin.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Having checked out the omnisis site I can already see a slight flaw in the polling it is this
Sample geography All residents aged 18+ living in the UK
Now we have about 6 million residents that wouldn't get to vote because while residents they aren't uk citizens so 1 in 7 of the sample possibly doesn't get a vote anyway but are biassed to rejoin
There are also Brits living outside the UK, many of whom (yes, I know not all) would vote to Rejoin. Leaving has made their lives a bit more difficult.
Yes that is another potential of the distortion. Though I would also point out the vast majority of brits living outside the uk don't live in the eu
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Because the surveys are generally not the full picture. Asking 'Rejoin, yes or no' is not what would be the reality. The EU isn't going to let us back in under the same terms we left. It would be see the UK with no rebate, paying more in, and reduced voting rights. Now people may still opt for that, but thats not what they are polling on.
And the other one - if we rejoin the EU will almost certainly build it into the treaty that we cannot exercise Article 50 again for a lifetime- for say, 80-100 or so years. They won’t allow us to cause damage to the European project by joining and leaving every couple of decades.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
There's a big disconnect between what people say and mean. People generally do want closer relations and free trade with the EU, they also generally don't want to have free movement or join the single market.
People want cake. But the population is more aware of the trade offs now than before the referendum. I expect a large proportion of the 60% are perfectly aware that rejoining means free movement. As for the single market, that was always seen overwhelmingly as a positive, even by many brexiteers.
I’d love someone (come on Lib Dems) to make a strong case for Schengen. We can join while remaining outside the single market and customs union, and with very little change to our migration policy. It would stop small boats overnight. We already have a mini version in Northern Ireland. Schengen plus much more meaningful policing of illegal employment and rental practices and life suddenly gets much easier for all holidaymakers and business travellers. Customs and the border force could actually focus on tackling smuggling, like they do in Switzerland.
I'm enjoying the groupthink on the CPTPP from our ardent remainers this morning. The same failed treasury models that suggest we shouldn't ever invest money in the North of England that they rage about all the time are predicting 0.08% GDP gain from the deal. If you think the treasury models are wrong about investment outside of the SE and London then you also should think that they are wrong about the impact of the trade deal.
Simply, the treasury, OBR and others have models which don't calculate the possibility of something existing where there was nothing before...
Given we have existing trade agreements with almost all the partners, that's simply not true.
Again, it's not about the trade deals, it's that the models don't take into account entirely new industries and trade and being a member of a very fast growing and innovative trade grouping gives us a much better opportunity to benefit from these new industries, those that simply don't exist today.
A weird argument. If it is the case there will be mysterious new industries and opportunities for the UK at some indeterminate point in the future, then why on earth would we be in a better position to exploit them with customers the other side of the world rather than with the mega market right on our doorstep, with which we would have had extremely low trade friction if we hadn't erected barriers for ideological reasons?
Because the EU doesn't do new innovative industries in the same way Asia does. Without the UK the EU struggles badly when it comes to the 'innovation economy', it's still stuck in the mid 20th century.
Remind me again who was first off the mark with the development of an effective and innovative Covid vaccine?
That would be the uk a non eu country wouldn't it
I assume they were thinking Biontech, although it's true AZ got approval first. The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
My, memories are short!
The first Covid vaccine to be approved was the BioNTech vaccine, developed in Germany and marketed and produced by Pfizer. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved subsequently. The UK was the first country to approve a Covid vaccine, which was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Edit: And Asia was a long way behind both Europe and the US in developing a vaccine.
China had two vaccines approved before the UK approval of Pfizer (CanSino in China and Sinopharm in UAE & Bahrain).
Well yes, but they were working on the vaccines prior to the release of their bioweapon (right?)
Plus their vaccines were shit.
The UK recognised Sinopharm as a vaccine for its travel passports. It is certainly less effective than Pfizer but more effective than the minimum standards the UK were willing to accept before trials.
Someone without access to other vaccines should be taking it. Not as good as the best does not equal shit.
I dont think public opinion will really start to crystallise on this topic until such time as the debate reaches the higher levels of our political parties and it becomes a topic on the political agenda.
Until such point “rejoin” doesn’t really consider the practicalities of the situation or what a “rejoin” proposition would be.
I agree it does measure the level of sympathy for closer European integration of a basic level though, and that is important as a way of getting that debate going. If anyone thinks this debate is going to start before the next GE though, it’s not.
It's only when you get into the detail you realise what a gulf exhists between the rhetoric and practicalities. We couldn't even join the EEA nevermind the EU if the public still oppose free movement. A better way of looking at the rejoin or stay out questioning is a proxy for how happy people are about Brexit, not as an answer to what rejoining means in practice, the public have very different views when asked about the specific aspects of EU membership.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than
embarrassing yourself further.
Too late, he's off down the 'wrong methodology' rabbit hole now.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
Yes, signing up to a trading block the other side of the world rather than one on one's doorstep makes perfect sense.
Horses for courses
The EU isnt just a trading bloc it is a commitment to a political project. If youre in you take on all the other shit.
CPTPP is just about trading. Suits me.
But there's a terrible price for not being in it.
That was the extent of the Remain campaign's argument in 2016, which is why they lost. And if Rejoiners can't find a better argument, they'll never win.
Mmm, much better off in than out - terrible argument.
The Remain campaign argument wasn't "better in than out", it was "worse out than in". Which is why they lost.
Meaningless semantics. There's no absolute case for EU membership unless you're in the tiny band of USE idealists. The argument for the British public only exists relative to not being a member. And this is - not 'the' but 'a' - reason why Remain lost. Because there IS an absolute case for Leave that could be made in addition to the relative one. I'm talking about the purist case around sovereignty. It requires a noddy antiquated view of what sovereignty means but nevertheless it's an argument you can make and it was made to great effect.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Generous of you to provide an example of that behaviour.
You mean like the Nits using subsamples....
HYUFD is a nationalist?
(But then he is. And so are you, going on about saving the union.)
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Depends what you do with the Don't Knows, of course...
4/ #Brexit sentiment appears to have stabilised, with little significant movement this week:
Right. So 49% said they want to rejoin, not 60%. You could perhaps net off the DKs and claim that Rejoin would win a referendum tomorrow by 60-40, but you can't claim that 60% "want to rejoin" because you're including in that 11% who explicitly don't know if they want to rejoin.
Come off it, you know it's common practice to exclude don't knows/won't votes in opinion polls - even referendum polls eg
OK if you want to point out it excludes don't knows (although surely this isn't necessary as the original quote showed 60%-40% I think everyone on here knows that adds up to 100%). But it sounds like you just don't want to admit you were wrong.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
The revealing thing about the CPTPP is that the second 'P' stands for Pacific, an ocean that every member country apart from the UK borders. It is also worth pointing out that the two largest Pacific economies are not members of the CPTPP, which further limits its usefulness to us. Membership is a nice thing to have but it is an order of magnitude less useful to us than being in the EU, as is obvious to anyone with a passing knowledge of global trade or maths.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than embarrassing yourself further.
It might be standard practise but that doesn't
make it right, the size of don't know is important because even if don't know when polled doesn't
mean they won't vote in an actual vote, netting off don't knows is a misleading practise regardless of the poll subject in my view
Starmer is utterly incapable of getting out in front on Trans rights. Everything is reactive. React to pressure to adopt a progressive position. React to the backlash against that position. React to the Government intervention in Scotland. React to SNP implosion in Scotland.
I dont think public opinion will really start to crystallise on this topic until such time as the debate reaches the higher levels of our political parties and it becomes a topic on the political agenda.
Until such point “rejoin” doesn’t really consider the practicalities of the situation or what a “rejoin” proposition would be.
I agree it does measure the level of sympathy for closer European integration of a basic level though, and that is important as a way of getting that debate going. If anyone thinks this debate is going to start before the next GE though, it’s not.
It's only when you get into the detail you realise what a gulf exhists between the rhetoric and practicalities. We couldn't even join the EEA nevermind the EU if the public still oppose free movement. A better way of looking at the rejoin or stay out questioning is a proxy for how happy people are about Brexit, not as an answer to what rejoining means in practice, the public have very different views when asked about the specific aspects of EU membership.
You could say that about any poll like this. It was almost certainly true in 2016: the referendum itself was a proxy vote for satisfaction with the status quo.
Report of newly released (but dated 7-10.3) @PanelbaseMD polling of #indyref2 vi, plus Westminster and Holyrood. election voting is at https://bit.ly/3ouYAz0
So the SNP were starting to go down the pan whilst Stugeon was at the helm. Now they have someone useless at the wheel,we are likely talking crossover this year. Nothing would please me more than to see a substantial Labour majority in Scotland if only to.preserve the Union
Ms Sturgeon had made her resignation klnown well before that.
Resigned 15th Feb not surprising effect seen a few weeks later.
But you were speaking as if she was fully in control for the foreseeable future. Which she was not at the time of polling.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than
embarrassing yourself further.
Too late, he's off down the 'wrong methodology' rabbit hole now.
The dangers of arguing with a blob.
Really you disagree that including peoples views in a poll that wouldn't actually have a vote might distort the outcome somewhat?
If they did a whole of uk survey on if scotland should be independent you don't think that might come up with a different answer than a poll of only scottish voters? Well its a view.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Redfield & Wilton, February this year, found 56% for rejoin, against 36% for stay out and 8% for neither. Excluding neithers, that's 61% for rejoin. That, however, is the highest figure I've seen. Excluding neithers, the figure is usually around 55%.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
We did do it, of course, but then had to hand everything back.
Ah yes. When we ruled the waves. Simpler times and alas not coming back.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than
embarrassing yourself further.
Too late, he's off down the 'wrong methodology' rabbit hole now.
The dangers of arguing with a blob.
Really you disagree that including peoples views
in a poll that wouldn't actually have a vote might distort the outcome somewhat?
If they did a whole of uk survey on if scotland should be independent you don't think that might come up with a different answer than a poll of only scottish voters?
***Well its a view***.
🤮The cliche-ometer has just exploded due to mechanical overload.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
..
Really so there were no don't knows at all? As I said bollocks a poll of rejoin 36 stay out 24 dont know gives those figures if you exclude don't
knows which doesn't sound so resounding as 60 40 now does it.
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
Isn’t it standard practice to net off DKs?
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than
embarrassing yourself further.
Too late, he's off down the 'wrong methodology' rabbit hole now.
The dangers of arguing with a blob.
Really you disagree that including peoples views
in a poll that wouldn't actually have a vote might distort the outcome somewhat?
If they did a whole of uk survey on if scotland should be independent you don't think that might come up with a different answer than a poll of only scottish voters?
***Well its a view***.
🤮The cliche-ometer has just exploded due to mechanical overload.
sighs and adds Anabob to the list of "waste of time reading" posters
Humza Yousaf could be one of several SNP politicians at risk of losing their seat at the next Holyrood election, a new poll has suggested.
A survey of Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions found the SNP on 39 per cent, a drop of eight points from December, with Labour on 31 per cent, an increase of seven
I dont think public opinion will really start to crystallise on this topic until such time as the debate reaches the higher levels of our political parties and it becomes a topic on the political agenda.
Until such point “rejoin” doesn’t really consider the practicalities of the situation or what a “rejoin” proposition would be.
I agree it does measure the level of sympathy for closer European integration of a basic level though, and that is important as a way of getting that debate going. If anyone thinks this debate is going to start before the next GE though, it’s not.
It's only when you get into the detail you realise what a gulf exhists between the rhetoric and practicalities. We couldn't even join the EEA nevermind the EU if the public still oppose free movement. A better way of looking at the rejoin or stay out questioning is a proxy for how happy people are about Brexit, not as an answer to what rejoining means in practice, the public have very different views when asked about the specific aspects of EU membership.
If you want something to happen, you need to work for it. Usually.
The freedom of movement was an issue to some in the UK. If you alleviate that issue, then it goes away as an issue.
So far we have -
1) Low wages in low end jobs are good for the country. The low paid should just suck it up, because high wages can expensive services and goods.
2) We can restructure employment and benefit practises to give a solid advantage to UK nationals in low end jobs in a more open job market.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
We did do it, of course, but then had to hand everything back.
Ah yes. When we ruled the waves. Simpler times and alas not coming back.
Then we stamped out the Atlantic Slave Trade. Nowadays we can't stamp out the cross-channel people trade.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
The revealing thing about the CPTPP is that the second 'P' stands for Pacific, an ocean that every member country apart from the UK borders. It is also worth pointing out that the two largest Pacific economies are not members of the CPTPP, which further limits its usefulness to us. Membership is a nice thing to have but it is an order of magnitude less useful to us than being in the EU, as is obvious to anyone with a passing knowledge of global trade or maths.
Being slightly pedantic the UK has Pacific territories in the Pitcairn Islands.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
It's not a complete waste of time, Roger.
It will have the effect of making any rapprchement with the EU, never mind rejoining, rather more difficult. It helps to cut off the route back.
The 52% will therefore welcome it.
I thought it was the 40% these days ?
Yes 60% want to rejoin with not a single (serviceable) party to represent them
Don't talk bollocks no where near 60% has been polled for rejoin
Deltapoll this week was 42/41 to rejoin
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Generous of you to provide an example of that behaviour.
You mean like the Nits using subsamples....
HYUFD is a nationalist?
(But then he is. And so are you, going on about saving the union.)
I am not a nationalist in the sense you suggest. I believe in the Union. If anything I am anti individual nationalism.
The Nits in the form of Stuart Dickson.. have been using subsamples for years to try and make points.
Im beginning to warm to Sunak, he;s actually doing useful things
joining the CPTPP is a positive step for the UK
What do you see as the big win with CPTPP, bearing in mind the UK has free trade agreements with most of the members already, which are in any case marginal in terms of trade facilitation?
If I could answer for him. He's doing what so many Leavers have been doing on here in recent weeks. Trying to find any justification they can to excuse what was an insane decision.
They had a piece on the CPTPP on one of the financial programs last night and as you suggest it's almost a complete waste of time. We have those deals anyway and it's value to the UK is negligible compared to the free trade agreement we had with the EU and that's before any sane person starts looking at the geography....
I'm supportive of joining CPTPP. You want to make the most of the opportunities you have available to you, even if if those opportunities have been severely reduced by Brexit. So why not join CPTPP at least for the time being?
CPTPP seems to tick some boxes: large trading area; some growth; mostly countries we approve of. But is there more to it than that?
The big downside apparently is that it'll make rejoining the EU much more difficult. I cant remember why. I just found the whole thing so depressing
If the UK decides later to sensibly reintegrate with the EU in some form, and if membership of CPTPP blocks that move, CPTPP will be dropped without hesitation. I am sure of that.
It would. Unless we somehow transcend geography and move thousands of miles to somewhere more exotic. But this seems unlikely. If it were possible I think we'd have already done it. We've been pretty much stuck where we are for a long long time.
We did do it, of course, but then had to hand everything back.
Ah yes. When we ruled the waves. Simpler times and alas not coming back.
Then we stamped out the Atlantic Slave Trade. Nowadays we can't stamp out the cross-channel people trade.
To be fair a lot of stamping out the alantic slave trade involved shooting at boats, not being the greek navy we can't get away with that nowadays
Report of newly released (but dated 7-10.3) @PanelbaseMD polling of #indyref2 vi, plus Westminster and Holyrood. election voting is at https://bit.ly/3ouYAz0
So the SNP were starting to go down the pan whilst Stugeon was at the helm. Now they have someone useless at the wheel,we are likely talking crossover this year. Nothing would please me more than to see a substantial Labour majority in Scotland if only to.preserve the Union
Ms Sturgeon had made her resignation klnown well before that.
Resigned 15th Feb not surprising effect seen a few weeks later.
But you were speaking as if she was fully in control for the foreseeable future. Which she was not at the time of polling.
The latest poll from PeoplePolling has the conservatives on 24%, which is their highest equal rating for this polling company since the special fiscal event in September last year.
Lab 39% (+18) Con 31% (-19) LD 21% (-6) Green 4% (+3) Reform 4% (+4)
There is also huge potential for Lab/LD/Green tactical voting within those numbers, either Lab or the LDs being the obvious challengers in most of the seats, so the Con position is worse than it seems. Reform/Brexit Party did not contest any of those seats in 2019 so Reform are bound to erode some of the Conservative 2019 position even in these Remain-friendly seats.
*Seats defined by R&W as "forty-two constituencies in southern England which voted Conservative in the last three general elections, where more than a quarter of adults have degrees, where more than 42.5% of voters are estimated to have voted to remain in the European Union in the 2016 referendum, and where the Conservative majority over Labour was under 10,000 or the Conservative majority over the Liberal Democrats was under 15,000, in the 2019 general election." Specifically: Bournemouth East, Chelsea and Fulham, Cheltenham, Chingford and Woodford Green, Chippenham, Chipping Barnet, Cities of London and Westminster, Colchester, Esher and Walton, Filton and Bradley Stoke, Finchley and Golders Green, Guildford, Harrow East, Hendon, Henley, Hitchin and Harpenden, Lewes, Milton Keynes North, Milton Keynes South, Mole Valley, Reading West, Romsey and Southampton North, South Cambridgeshire, South East Cambridgeshire, South West Surrey, St Ives, Sutton and Cheam, Taunton Deane, Thornbury and Yate, Totnes, Truro and Falmouth, Tunbridge Wells, Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Wantage, Watford, Wells, West Dorset, Wimbledon, Winchester, Woking, Wokingham, and Wycombe.
On topic Macron is very keen to get his pension reforms through, won't stand again due to term limits, so doesn't need to consider the effect on his electorability. Not sure how it will go.
Comments
The original Europe vs Asia innovation point was nonsense anyway.
Try all you like to make it sound like people are adopting eu standards they really aren't, they are adopting the same standards as the eu is adopting
Just traded my GSX-R1000R (CPTPP) for a new M1000RR (EU).
I’m basing my comments on the BBC article last week.
Barclays has said that a massive catch up pay rise is not possible so no point in meeting to discuss it and that any deal would have to be a pay rise + a one time payment (which is crap for employees IMV so not sure why other unions have put it to their members unless they have judged it’s the best available).
The BMA have said that a massive pay rise needs to be on the table.
Both are putting preconditions for meeting - this is already part of the negotiations
I predict that 60% may be reduced by as much as 0.08% over 10 years.
The first Covid vaccine to be approved was the BioNTech vaccine, developed in Germany and marketed and produced by Pfizer. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved subsequently. The UK was the first country to approve a Covid vaccine, which was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Edit: And Asia was a long way behind both Europe and the US in developing a vaccine.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-amanohashidate-in-kyoto-prefecture-japan-72157256.html
Nothing would please me more than to see a substantial Labour majority in Scotland if only to.preserve the Union
This sovereignty thing is just the bomb.
Cricket Discipline Commission has published its findings
Case against former England captain Vaughan not proven
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/31/michael-vaughan-cleared-of-using-racist-language-at-yorkshire-cdc-hearing-finds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
This is the statistics part of the quote " there are lies, damned lies and statistics", hell this is in lib dem bar chart territory
The 60% was from Omnisis yesterday
The old story of homing in on the poll you like
Sample geography All residents aged 18+ living in the UK
Now we have about 6 million residents that wouldn't get to vote because while residents they aren't uk citizens so 1 in 7 of the sample possibly doesn't get a vote anyway but are biassed to rejoin
I think that poll was an outlier but nevertheless you have been proved wrong.
Better to put your hands up rather than embarrassing yourself further.
Perfectly decent agreement and good news so long as it doesn’t inhibit future integration with the EU, which it shouldn’t do. But even they were quick to emphasise the limited nature of the benefits. It’s a nice to have. And largely important for geopolitical and soft power reasons, which shouldn’t be underestimated.
4/ #Brexit sentiment appears to have stabilised, with little significant movement this week:
* All *
❎ Stay Out: 32% (-1)
☑️ Re-join: 49% (+1)
* Exc DKs*
❎ Stay Out: 40 (-1)
☑️ Re-join: 60% (+1)
https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1641712127059668993?t=iTmkMLjVIdLTV7utJQLuDw&s=19
Until such point “rejoin” doesn’t really consider the practicalities of the situation or what a “rejoin” proposition would be.
I agree it does measure the level of sympathy for closer European integration of a basic level though, and that is important as a way of getting that debate going. If anyone thinks this debate is going to start before the next GE though, it’s not.
Plus their vaccines were shit.
I’d love someone (come on Lib Dems) to make a strong case for Schengen. We can join while remaining outside the single market and customs union, and with very little change to our migration policy. It would stop small boats overnight. We already have a mini version in Northern Ireland. Schengen plus much more meaningful policing of illegal employment and rental practices and life suddenly gets much easier for all holidaymakers and business travellers. Customs and the border force could actually focus on tackling smuggling, like they do in Switzerland.
Someone without access to other vaccines should be taking it. Not as good as the best does not equal shit.
Paul O'Grady “didn’t have a woke bone in his body”
https://twitter.com/HuffPostUK/status/1641740624553467904
I await Casino's judgment in the matter.
(But then he is. And so are you, going on about saving the union.)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11836343/Support-Scottish-independence-collapses-new-poll-shows-TEN-point-lead-No.html
OK if you want to point out it excludes don't knows (although surely this isn't necessary as the original quote showed 60%-40% I think everyone on here knows that adds up to 100%). But it sounds like you just don't want to admit you were wrong.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1641738525283328000?s=20
Stapled on, at that.
If they did a whole of uk survey on if scotland should be independent you don't think that might come up with a different answer than a poll of only scottish voters? Well its a view.
A survey of Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions found the SNP on 39 per cent, a drop of eight points from December, with Labour on 31 per cent, an increase of seven
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousaf-could-lose-seat-29595393
The freedom of movement was an issue to some in the UK. If you alleviate that issue, then it goes away as an issue.
So far we have -
1) Low wages in low end jobs are good for the country. The low paid should just suck it up, because high wages can expensive services and goods.
2) We can restructure employment and benefit practises to give a solid advantage to UK nationals in low end jobs in a more open job market.
Shouting about (1) a lot won't work.
The Nits in the form of Stuart Dickson.. have been using subsamples for years to try and make points.
https://peoplepolling.org/2023/gb-voting-intention-week-13-2023/
NEW: Westminster Voting Intention poll (29 Mar):
🔴 LAB: 42% (-1 from 22 Mar)
🔵 CON: 24% (+2)
🟠 LDM: 9% (-1)
🟣 RFM: 8% (-1)
🟢 GRN: 7% (-1)
🟡 SNP: 5% (+1)
Latest "Blue Wall"* voting intention R&W, fieldwork 26th March. Changes compared to 2019 GE.
Lab 39% (+18)
Con 31% (-19)
LD 21% (-6)
Green 4% (+3)
Reform 4% (+4)
There is also huge potential for Lab/LD/Green tactical voting within those numbers, either Lab or the LDs being the obvious challengers in most of the seats, so the Con position is worse than it seems. Reform/Brexit Party did not contest any of those seats in 2019 so Reform are bound to erode some of the Conservative 2019 position even in these Remain-friendly seats.
*Seats defined by R&W as "forty-two constituencies in southern England which voted Conservative in the last three general elections, where more than a quarter of adults have degrees, where more than 42.5% of voters are estimated to have voted to remain in the European Union in the 2016 referendum, and where the Conservative majority over Labour was under 10,000 or the Conservative majority over the Liberal Democrats was under 15,000, in the 2019 general election." Specifically: Bournemouth East, Chelsea and Fulham, Cheltenham, Chingford and Woodford Green, Chippenham, Chipping Barnet, Cities of London and Westminster, Colchester, Esher and Walton, Filton and Bradley Stoke, Finchley and Golders Green, Guildford, Harrow East, Hendon, Henley, Hitchin and Harpenden, Lewes, Milton Keynes North, Milton Keynes South, Mole Valley, Reading West, Romsey and Southampton North, South Cambridgeshire, South East Cambridgeshire, South West Surrey, St Ives, Sutton and Cheam, Taunton Deane, Thornbury and Yate, Totnes, Truro and Falmouth, Tunbridge Wells, Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Wantage, Watford, Wells, West Dorset, Wimbledon, Winchester, Woking, Wokingham, and Wycombe.