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Well done Gavin Williamson – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    I suspect that a fair few SNP members who voted for Kate Forbes were expecting Humza Yousaf to offer her nothing less than the post of Deputy FM, and they too will see this as a humiliating snub. Humza is making no attempt to even heal the splits among his Parliamentary party and the remaining SNP membership grassroots, far less the wider Independence movement.

    Stephen Daisley absolutely nails it in The Spectator - Kate Forbes quitting is a nightmare for the SNP
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/kate-forbes-quitting-is-a-nightmare-for-the-snp/

    "Now, some will say that Forbes, a Highland MSP, ought to have taken the rural affairs job and used it to improve the lot of those parts of Scotland that were neglected under Sturgeon’s government. But rural affairs is not going to be a priority under Yousaf either. He’s a city boy. He loves cities so much that he represents one while living in another. He shows no particular interest in or understanding of rural Scotland. That he considers the rural affairs post a demotion with which to punish an opponent is perhaps an indication of the regard in which he holds this brief. For Forbes to have taken it under these circumstances would have been to acquiesce in an act of disrespect for communities that have been disrespected more than enough by the SNP."

    Rural Scottish seats held by the SNP like Gordon, Angus, Argyll and Bute, Ayrshire Central and Perth and North Pershire are now prime Conservative targets
    Ayrshire Central is certainly not a rural seat. The Conservative vote consists mainly of comfortably off retirees in Troon and Prestwick and staunch orangemen in Irvine and Dreghorn.
    Plenty of rural villages in South Ayrshire included in that seat and small towns like Troon as you say are hardly likely to be pro Yousaf either
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,314

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    I suspect that a fair few SNP members who voted for Kate Forbes were expecting Humza Yousaf to offer her nothing less than the post of Deputy FM, and they too will see this as a humiliating snub. Humza is making no attempt to even heal the splits among his Parliamentary party and the remaining SNP membership grassroots, far less the wider Independence movement.

    Stephen Daisley absolutely nails it in The Spectator - Kate Forbes quitting is a nightmare for the SNP
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/kate-forbes-quitting-is-a-nightmare-for-the-snp/

    "Now, some will say that Forbes, a Highland MSP, ought to have taken the rural affairs job and used it to improve the lot of those parts of Scotland that were neglected under Sturgeon’s government. But rural affairs is not going to be a priority under Yousaf either. He’s a city boy. He loves cities so much that he represents one while living in another. He shows no particular interest in or understanding of rural Scotland. That he considers the rural affairs post a demotion with which to punish an opponent is perhaps an indication of the regard in which he holds this brief. For Forbes to have taken it under these circumstances would have been to acquiesce in an act of disrespect for communities that have been disrespected more than enough by the SNP."

    Rural Scottish seats held by the SNP like Gordon, Angus, Argyll and Bute, Ayrshire Central and Perth and North Pershire are now prime Conservative targets
    Ayrshire Central is certainly not a rural seat. The Conservative vote consists mainly of comfortably off retirees in Troon and Prestwick and staunch orangemen in Irvine and Dreghorn.


    I would have thought the Ayrshire seats are amongst the seats the SNP are least likely to lose. A lot of unionists are going to be confused whether to vote Labour or Tory there at the next GE.
    Gordon and Angus are another story.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Cicero said:

    Big smile at Cicero towers this evening. I was not even going to watch the match, and just had the alert on in the background. Second half began to pay attention and the last 30 minutes have been agony: Its never the despair, Scotland, its the hope.. But wow. what. a. result.

    Well put. Great result.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    On topic, while I realise the bar is lower than an earthworm’s tummy, I don’t think we should be giving Gav too much credit for doing the bare minimum we should expect of a professional politician.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Stupid, stupid move by Yousless. Truss may be holding her breath about her record.

    Meanwhile Scotland suffers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, while I realise the bar is lower than an earthworm’s tummy, I don’t think we should be giving Gav too much credit for doing the bare minimum we should expect of a professional politician.

    Tarantula's tummy, surely?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Humza Yousaf exit markets are going to be fun.

    I'm going to go for late 2024/earlier 2025.

    All dependent on the next GE.

    I've discovered something very disturbing about Humza Yousaf.

    He went to a grammar school.

    No, he went to a private school like us. 'Hutchesons' Grammar School is an independent day school for boys and girls aged 3–18 in Glasgow, Scotland.' Indeed the leader of Scottish Labour, Anas Sarwar went to the same private school. Albeit Douglas Ross went to a comprehensive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchesons'_Grammar_School
    Hurrah, it is remarkable what a private education for the children/grandchildren of humble immigrants from Pakistan.
    What does it do for arrogant ones?

    Not that you would know of course, Mr Eagles, given your legendary modesty...
    I hate arrogance.

    But I'm not a humble immigrant to this country.
    Neither humble nor immigrant?
    And perhaps French as well?
    Recently I was described as a banker.

    I see it is insult me month.
    Sorry, not intended to insult. Apologies.
    Isn't Mons. Macaron a French Banker?

    Incidentally if you want do the full South Asian heritage Leaders thing, you could add in Leo Varadkar.

    And Bobby Jindal / Nikki Haley

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    ydoethur said:

    I am trying to think if any chancellors other than Butler and Zahawi have ever accepted another office in cabinet rather than going to The Top or resigning altogether.

    If I'm honest, the only other one I can think of is Callaghan in 1967 who was shunted sideways to the Home Office after the devaluation debacle.

    Which order did Major do his round robin in?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,218
    edited March 2023
    I hope the celebrations this evening are a bit more lively than the desultory efforts earlier in an admittedly damp Glasgow city centre. I was there for the day and became vaguely aware there were a few men wandering around in Spain scarves but it was all a bit muted.

    A bit later, but before kickoff, some half hearted chanting about Diego Maradona (why?) from the Wetherspoons on George Square.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,157

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Humza Yousaf exit markets are going to be fun.

    I'm going to go for late 2024/earlier 2025.

    All dependent on the next GE.

    I've discovered something very disturbing about Humza Yousaf.

    He went to a grammar school.

    No, he went to a private school like us. 'Hutchesons' Grammar School is an independent day school for boys and girls aged 3–18 in Glasgow, Scotland.' Indeed the leader of Scottish Labour, Anas Sarwar went to the same private school. Albeit Douglas Ross went to a comprehensive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchesons'_Grammar_School
    Hurrah, it is remarkable what a private education for the children/grandchildren of humble immigrants from Pakistan.
    What does it do for arrogant ones?

    Not that you would know of course, Mr Eagles, given your legendary modesty...
    I hate arrogance.

    But I'm not a humble immigrant to this country.
    Neither humble nor immigrant?
    And perhaps French as well?
    Recently I was described as a banker.

    I see it is insult me month.
    Sorry, not intended to insult. Apologies.
    Isn't Mons. Macaron a French Banker?

    Incidentally if you want do the full South Asian heritage Leaders thing, you could add in Leo Varadkar.

    And Bobby Jindal / Nikki Haley

    Kamala Harris too. Just a heartbeat away from the top job.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,470

    ydoethur said:

    I am trying to think if any chancellors other than Butler and Zahawi have ever accepted another office in cabinet rather than going to The Top or resigning altogether.

    If I'm honest, the only other one I can think of is Callaghan in 1967 who was shunted sideways to the Home Office after the devaluation debacle.

    Which order did Major do his round robin in?
    Foreign Sec for about three months first, replacing Howe, then Chancellor after Lawson resigned.

    But what about the returning Chancellors still to come? Like when Phil Hammond is welcomed back to Number 11 under Prime Minister George Osborne?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    👍 Scotland excellent result 👍
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    HYUFD said:

    The Humza Yousaf exit markets are going to be fun.

    I'm going to go for late 2024/earlier 2025.

    All dependent on the next GE.

    I've discovered something very disturbing about Humza Yousaf.

    He went to a grammar school.

    I believe any school in Scotland appended by 'grammar' only has it for historical reasons, mine certainly did.
    Thanks.

    Hopefully it won't be long until England follows Scotland's lead.
    Far better if we followed Northern Ireland's lead instead.

    In England some areas like Tyneside and Northumberland, Norfolk and Suffolk, Sussex and Surrey, Hertfordshire and Hampshire, inner London, Cornwall and Somerset, Bristol, Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire, Herefordshire and Shropshire, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Leicestershire don't even have a single grammar school left now.

    Fortunately here in Essex we still do, in Chelmsford, Colchester and Southend

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_England
    Don't forget Ilford County and Woodford County, just across the border in Redbridge! I was at Ilford County 1987-1994.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,157
    HYUFD said:

    Emerald said:

    It genuinely is moving for me that London, Scotland, and the UK are run by non white people, from different parties.

    Why? I admit it is interesting in an historical sense and might be moving if you are of say Indian heritage but if you are part of the white majority i find your emotions weird.
    He is of Pakistani heritage. Might be a way to go until we get a white PM of Pakistan or India though, although a few whites live, work or retire in Delhi and Mumbai now
    Sonia Gandhi was leader of the Opposition in India, so came close. She was born Italian.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited March 2023
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Emerald said:

    It genuinely is moving for me that London, Scotland, and the UK are run by non white people, from different parties.

    Why? I admit it is interesting in an historical sense and might be moving if you are of say Indian heritage but if you are part of the white majority i find your emotions weird.
    He is of Pakistani heritage. Might be a way to go until we get a white PM of Pakistan or India though, although a few whites live, work or retire in Delhi and Mumbai now
    Sonia Gandhi was leader of the Opposition in India, so came close. She was born Italian.
    Indeed but she never became PM and her mixed race son who is a former Congress Party Leader of the Opposition is facing jail
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    HYUFD said:

    Emerald said:

    It genuinely is moving for me that London, Scotland, and the UK are run by non white people, from different parties.

    Why? I admit it is interesting in an historical sense and might be moving if you are of say Indian heritage but if you are part of the white majority i find your emotions weird.
    He is of Pakistani heritage. Might be a way to go until we get a white PM of Pakistan or India though, although a few whites live, work or retire in Delhi and Mumbai now
    {Sonia Gandhi has entered the chat}
    She was passed over for PM in favour of Manmohan Singh. Too white, you see.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited March 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Emerald said:

    It genuinely is moving for me that London, Scotland, and the UK are run by non white people, from different parties.

    Why? I admit it is interesting in an historical sense and might be moving if you are of say Indian heritage but if you are part of the white majority i find your emotions weird.
    He is of Pakistani heritage. Might be a way to go until we get a white PM of Pakistan or India though, although a few whites live, work or retire in Delhi and Mumbai now
    Sonia Gandhi was leader of the Opposition in India, so came close. She was born Italian.
    Indeed but she lost to the BJP and her mixed race son who is a former Congress Party Leader of the Opposition is facing jail
    In fact she won the 2004 election. But was passed over for PM in favour of Manmohan Singh. India wasn't ready for an Italian-heritage PM!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,805
    My energy utilities direct debit is falling by over 40%.

    That's 40% from the top line before the government £66.67 we've had for the last six months - but still a reduction from what I've been paying.

    If this is widespread then there might well be a boost to consumer spending and government support.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,965
    "US teens say they have new proof for 2,000-year-old mathematical theorem
    New Orleans students Calcea Johnson and Ne’Kiya Jackson recently presented their findings on the Pythagorean theorem"

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/24/new-orleans-pythagoras-theorem-trigonometry-prove
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    Well, Joannie did end up as ash..






  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,805
    Andy_JS said:

    "US teens say they have new proof for 2,000-year-old mathematical theorem
    New Orleans students Calcea Johnson and Ne’Kiya Jackson recently presented their findings on the Pythagorean theorem"

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/24/new-orleans-pythagoras-theorem-trigonometry-prove

    There are hundreds of proofs of Pythagoras's Theorem.

    One of them discovered by a US President.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,965
    I wonder whether Jeremy Corbyn is the only person to have ever defeated two sitting MPs at the same time, when he was first elected in 1983 (as mentioned earlier).
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Emerald said:

    It genuinely is moving for me that London, Scotland, and the UK are run by non white people, from different parties.

    Why? I admit it is interesting in an historical sense and might be moving if you are of say Indian heritage but if you are part of the white majority i find your emotions weird.
    He is of Pakistani heritage. Might be a way to go until we get a white PM of Pakistan or India though, although a few whites live, work or retire in Delhi and Mumbai now
    Sonia Gandhi was leader of the Opposition in India, so came close. She was born Italian.
    Indeed but she lost to the BJP and her mixed race son who is a former Congress Party Leader of the Opposition is facing jail
    In fact she won the 2004 election. But was passed over for PM in favour of Manmohan Singh. India wasn't ready for an Italian-heritage PM!
    Zambia had a White president in 2014, following the incumbent's death in office:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Scott
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966

    👍 Scotland excellent result 👍

    Freed of Sturgeon's shackle.....
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    DavidL said:

    Stupid, stupid move by Yousless. Truss may be holding her breath about her record.

    Meanwhile Scotland suffers.

    It will be interesting to see what the SNP membership figures are six months from now, and also if some SNP associations are struggling for activists to do leaflet drops etc? Hopefully there will be the odd Scottish poll too.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    fitalass said:

    I suspect that a fair few SNP members who voted for Kate Forbes were expecting Humza Yousaf to offer her nothing less than the post of Deputy FM, and they too will see this as a humiliating snub. Humza is making no attempt to even heal the splits among his Parliamentary party and the remaining SNP membership grassroots, far less the wider Independence movement.

    Stephen Daisley absolutely nails it in The Spectator - Kate Forbes quitting is a nightmare for the SNP
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/kate-forbes-quitting-is-a-nightmare-for-the-snp/

    "Now, some will say that Forbes, a Highland MSP, ought to have taken the rural affairs job and used it to improve the lot of those parts of Scotland that were neglected under Sturgeon’s government. But rural affairs is not going to be a priority under Yousaf either. He’s a city boy. He loves cities so much that he represents one while living in another. He shows no particular interest in or understanding of rural Scotland. That he considers the rural affairs post a demotion with which to punish an opponent is perhaps an indication of the regard in which he holds this brief. For Forbes to have taken it under these circumstances would have been to acquiesce in an act of disrespect for communities that have been disrespected more than enough by the SNP."

    If a whistle-blower should pop up and say Yousaf had, er, advanategeous treatment by the SNP machine, he is going to be given no quarter, no second chances. The ton of bricks will descend from great height - and with great accuracy.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    👍 Scotland excellent result 👍

    Freed of Sturgeon's shackle.....
    The Humza Effect ;)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929

    My energy utilities direct debit is falling by over 40%.

    That's 40% from the top line before the government £66.67 we've had for the last six months - but still a reduction from what I've been paying.

    If this is widespread then there might well be a boost to consumer spending and government support.

    Increasing signs that Putin has (touch wood) lost the gas war.

    As for the battlefield I'd like to get some idea of exactly how much stuff the west has sent to Ukraine. I'm thinking mainly about tanks, fighting vehicles etc. All the focus is on tanks, Germany has sent 18 Leopards but also 40 Mordar fighting vehicles. The US has sent something like 140 Bradleys/Strykers. Or has it? Certainly plenty of stuff arriving by ship in Germany.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Ouch!
    The Spectator - Humza’s latest gaffe has cost him a finance secretary
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/humzas-latest-gaffe-costs-him-a-finance-secretary/

    "Yousaf’s questionable decision-making hasn’t escaped the scrutiny of shrewd political commentators or even his own supporters. Safe to say, they’re less than impressed…"

    "‘What a cheek,’ one senior SNP figure cried of the offer. ‘This move is going down like a cup of cold sick with the members,’ says another."

    "And while SNP MP Joanna Cherry reacts to Forbes’s resignation – ‘what a shame’ – political commentator Kenny Farquharson writes soberingly: ‘FM pushing Forbes out is a sign of weakness, not strength. I would respectfully suggest keeping 48 per cent of your party on side is more important than pandering to the Greens.’"
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320

    fitalass said:

    I suspect that a fair few SNP members who voted for Kate Forbes were expecting Humza Yousaf to offer her nothing less than the post of Deputy FM, and they too will see this as a humiliating snub. Humza is making no attempt to even heal the splits among his Parliamentary party and the remaining SNP membership grassroots, far less the wider Independence movement.

    Stephen Daisley absolutely nails it in The Spectator - Kate Forbes quitting is a nightmare for the SNP
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/kate-forbes-quitting-is-a-nightmare-for-the-snp/

    "Now, some will say that Forbes, a Highland MSP, ought to have taken the rural affairs job and used it to improve the lot of those parts of Scotland that were neglected under Sturgeon’s government. But rural affairs is not going to be a priority under Yousaf either. He’s a city boy. He loves cities so much that he represents one while living in another. He shows no particular interest in or understanding of rural Scotland. That he considers the rural affairs post a demotion with which to punish an opponent is perhaps an indication of the regard in which he holds this brief. For Forbes to have taken it under these circumstances would have been to acquiesce in an act of disrespect for communities that have been disrespected more than enough by the SNP."

    If a whistle-blower should pop up and say Yousaf had, er, advanategeous treatment by the SNP machine, he is going to be given no quarter, no second chances. The ton of bricks will descend from great height - and with great accuracy.
    How many of those SNP MSPs/MPs that rushed to endorse continuity candidate Humza Yousaf thought that when the leadership contest was over that the same Sturgeon/Murrell background party machine would still be in charge at Holyrood and at SNP HQ at the end off it? They have all gone in six short weeks along with Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited March 2023
    Hmmmm... "Sir" David Jason's current wife "Gill Hinchcliffe" express's her "shock" at a long lost daughter suddenly turning up!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/sir-david-jasons-wife-shock-29574562

    Isn't it odd that a 34 year old woman Sir David had an affair with while he was doing a play in 1970 didn't reveal they'd had a child together before her death in 1996? Even though Sir David found household fame with Only Fools And Horses, A Touch Of Frost and many, many more... Why should that be? We'll probably never know but what a strange story....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited March 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Is Gavin Williamson related to Michael Crawford?

    I believe I was the first person on PB to note the similarity between the ex-fireplace salesman and the original Phantom Of The Opera... ;)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,919
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    I suspect that a fair few SNP members who voted for Kate Forbes were expecting Humza Yousaf to offer her nothing less than the post of Deputy FM, and they too will see this as a humiliating snub. Humza is making no attempt to even heal the splits among his Parliamentary party and the remaining SNP membership grassroots, far less the wider Independence movement.

    Stephen Daisley absolutely nails it in The Spectator - Kate Forbes quitting is a nightmare for the SNP
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/kate-forbes-quitting-is-a-nightmare-for-the-snp/

    "Now, some will say that Forbes, a Highland MSP, ought to have taken the rural affairs job and used it to improve the lot of those parts of Scotland that were neglected under Sturgeon’s government. But rural affairs is not going to be a priority under Yousaf either. He’s a city boy. He loves cities so much that he represents one while living in another. He shows no particular interest in or understanding of rural Scotland. That he considers the rural affairs post a demotion with which to punish an opponent is perhaps an indication of the regard in which he holds this brief. For Forbes to have taken it under these circumstances would have been to acquiesce in an act of disrespect for communities that have been disrespected more than enough by the SNP."

    Rural Scottish seats held by the SNP like Gordon, Angus, Argyll and Bute, Ayrshire Central and Perth and North Perthshire are now prime Conservative targets
    Well if you are right, you are some kind of soothsayer because there isn't a shred of evidence thus far to suggest the Cons are going to hoover up Scotland.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    GIN1138 said:

    Hmmmm... "Sir" David Jason's current wife "Gill Hinchcliffe" express's her "shock" at a long lost daughter suddenly turning up!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/sir-david-jasons-wife-shock-29574562

    Isn't it odd that a 34 year old woman Sir David had an affair with while he was doing a play in 1970 didn't reveal they'd had a child together before her death in 1996? Even though Sir David found household fame with Only Fools And Horses, A Touch Of Frost and many, many more... Why should that be? We'll probably never know but what a strange story....

    Bizarre story.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,919
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is Gavin Williamson related to Michael Crawford?

    I believe I was the first person on PB to note the similarity between the ex-fireplace salesman and the original Phantom Of The Opera... ;)
    Ooh Betty!
  • GIN1138 said:

    Hmmmm... "Sir" David Jason's current wife "Gill Hinchcliffe" express's her "shock" at a long lost daughter suddenly turning up!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/sir-david-jasons-wife-shock-29574562

    Isn't it odd that a 34 year old woman Sir David had an affair with while he was doing a play in 1970 didn't reveal they'd had a child together before her death in 1996? Even though Sir David found household fame with Only Fools And Horses, A Touch Of Frost and many, many more... Why should that be? We'll probably never know but what a strange story....

    The mother didn't die in 1996 - her husband did, which makes rather more sense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    fitalass said:

    Ouch!
    The Spectator - Humza’s latest gaffe has cost him a finance secretary
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/humzas-latest-gaffe-costs-him-a-finance-secretary/

    "Yousaf’s questionable decision-making hasn’t escaped the scrutiny of shrewd political commentators or even his own supporters. Safe to say, they’re less than impressed…"

    "‘What a cheek,’ one senior SNP figure cried of the offer. ‘This move is going down like a cup of cold sick with the members,’ says another."

    "And while SNP MP Joanna Cherry reacts to Forbes’s resignation – ‘what a shame’ – political commentator Kenny Farquharson writes soberingly: ‘FM pushing Forbes out is a sign of weakness, not strength. I would respectfully suggest keeping 48 per cent of your party on side is more important than pandering to the Greens.’"

    But the Greens are so cool and progressive.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Struggling to see how the member for *Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch* squares 'Rural Affairs are so unimportant it's insulting to be given the opportunity to represent them in the Cabinet of the national government'.

    https://twitter.com/FionasWriting/status/1640800542749237248

    She's neither saying nor implying that though.

    She's saying she's taking time away after a bruising campaign to spend family time, and wishes the FM the best of Scottish luck etc.

    She's implying she wants nothing to do with the incompetent f***wit's doomed administration.

    I suspect her constituents and the wider public get that.
    I know, but it is an argument her opponents will make.

    As an aside, which is biggest cabinet demotion a UK Chancellor has ever accepted since WWII?
    Zahawi to "without portfolio"?
    Actually he was to Duchy of Lancaster... surely that?
    That's just a fancily titled 'without portfolio', so they can have more than one.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Just catching up so the failed Health Secretary First Minister has appointed failed Health Secretary Sturgeon best mate and architect of her career ending GRR bill as Deputy First minister and made an offer she couldn’t refuse demotion to the close runner up in the leadership race, which she refused?

    Everything’s going so well….
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited March 2023
    Riddle me this PB.

    How can Prince Harry sue anyone for invading of his privacy when he has invaded everyone else's privacy including the girl who took his virginity in 2001 (before revealing after his cherry was popped she smacked his ass and sent him on his way) and exposing intimate details of Prince William's penis? 🤷‍♂️
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Are things kicking off in Chechnya? Kadyrov losing his grip would be bad news for Putin.

    https://twitter.com/301military/status/1640828111355781121
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,004

    kamski said:

    Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprising honesty from Republican congressman.

    REPORTER: "Do you think there's any role for congress to play in reaction [to the Tennessee shooting]?"

    BURCHETT: "I don't see any real role that we could do other than mess things up."

    https://mobile.twitter.com/brenonade/status/1640514060532711429

    Not really. Entirely consistent with Republican dogma that has sought to discredit the government, state agencies, etc, at every turn, as part of their ideology of small government.

    In that sense it is dishonest because there is plenty that Congress could do on gun control, if it so chose, that would improve the situation without messing it up.
    Not really, since they have to deal with the Second Amendment, and a Supreme Court that interprets it literally.
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Not sure how you interpret that literally. It's gibberish.
    The original (ha ha) intent was -

    "A well regulated Militia" - the militia was the volunteer army created by getting everyone to down tools and get their guns.

    "being necessary to the security of a free State" - there was a deep belief that the militia with their rifled hunting guns had seen off the British professionals. This was a myth. It took George Washington a lot of effort to train the army to be... professional.

    "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - it was believed that if you had a bunch of hardy frontiersmen, with their trusty long rifles, all able to shoot the corners of an ace of spades at a zillion yards, from hunting all the time... well, then you wouldn't need a standing army.
    Also note that the Constitution gives Congress the power “ To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia”.

    Always struck me as strange this provision is held separate from personal ownership of weapons.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Saw Lily in Newcastle in the ‘80s before she was famous - she had a great line about what you need in a riot (then very topical) “a pair of flat heels and a shopping trolley”.

    TV presenter and comedian Paul O'Grady has died at the age of 67, his partner Andre Portasio says.

    He died "unexpectedly but peacefully" on Tuesday evening.

    O'Grady rose to fame in the 1990s with his iconic scouse drag queen persona Lily Savage, going on to present game show Blankety Blank and other light entertainment programmes.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65108130
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited March 2023

    Saw Lily in Newcastle in the ‘80s before she was famous - she had a great line about what you need in a riot (then very topical) “a pair of flat heels and a shopping trolley”.

    TV presenter and comedian Paul O'Grady has died at the age of 67, his partner Andre Portasio says.

    He died "unexpectedly but peacefully" on Tuesday evening.

    O'Grady rose to fame in the 1990s with his iconic scouse drag queen persona Lily Savage, going on to present game show Blankety Blank and other light entertainment programmes.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65108130

    RIP Paul/Lily & Cilla & Babs

    (Back when comedy was fun and no one gave a fuck about "Pronouns" )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOIGfjcxZE
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    GIN1138 said:

    Saw Lily in Newcastle in the ‘80s before she was famous - she had a great line about what you need in a riot (then very topical) “a pair of flat heels and a shopping trolley”.

    TV presenter and comedian Paul O'Grady has died at the age of 67, his partner Andre Portasio says.

    He died "unexpectedly but peacefully" on Tuesday evening.

    O'Grady rose to fame in the 1990s with his iconic scouse drag queen persona Lily Savage, going on to present game show Blankety Blank and other light entertainment programmes.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65108130

    RIP Paul/Lily & Cilla & Babs

    (Back when comedy was fun and no one gave a fuck about "Pronouns" )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOIGfjcxZE
    Dry sad about Paul O’Grady. He wasn’t that old too. Used to enjoy his BBC Radio 2 show before the unceremoniously dumped him.

    As for Cilla Black, really unpleasant character. Some great stories about her appalling prima Donna nature abound on places like Popbitch and digital spy,
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    DavidL said:

    Stupid, stupid move by Yousless. Truss may be holding her breath about her record.

    Meanwhile Scotland suffers.

    It will be fun to watch the infighting. No doubt more dirt will come out trom Sturgeon's tenure....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Saw Lily in Newcastle in the ‘80s before she was famous - she had a great line about what you need in a riot (then very topical) “a pair of flat heels and a shopping trolley”.

    TV presenter and comedian Paul O'Grady has died at the age of 67, his partner Andre Portasio says.

    He died "unexpectedly but peacefully" on Tuesday evening.

    O'Grady rose to fame in the 1990s with his iconic scouse drag queen persona Lily Savage, going on to present game show Blankety Blank and other light entertainment programmes.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65108130

    RIP Paul/Lily & Cilla & Babs

    (Back when comedy was fun and no one gave a fuck about "Pronouns" )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOIGfjcxZE
    Dry sad about Paul O’Grady. He wasn’t that old too. Used to enjoy his BBC Radio 2 show before the unceremoniously dumped him.

    As for Cilla Black, really unpleasant character. Some great stories about her appalling prima Donna nature abound on places like Popbitch and digital spy,
    O'Grady did wonders for Battersea Dogs home.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    kle4 said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Chris Musson@ChrisMusson
    BREAKING: SNP leadership candidate Kate Forbes was tonight offered a demotion to Rural Affairs Secretary by Humza Yousaf - after finishing a narrow second to him - and turned it down. Forbes, the Finance Secretary until today, will resign and return to the backbenches
    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1640753485632118784

    Chris Musson@ChrisMusson
    Source on Kate Forbes rejecting Humza Yousaf's offer of a demotion to Rural Affairs Secretary:

    "She told him where to stick it"
    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1640753756336783360

    Wise move by Kate Forbes. This huge mistake by Humza Yousaf is right up there with the biggest error Theresa May made in her first 24hrs as PM when she sacked George Osborne instead of retaining the most politically astute Minister in Cameron's Cabinet in a very senior role in her new Government. But also right up there is appointing Shona Robison as his Deputy FM, she is no John Swinney and that will quickly become evident as she will be about as much use as a chocolate teapot when it comes to defending him and his government on bad news days at Holyrood. And there is going to be a lot of those in the coming weeks and months.

    That 'stick it' quote/characterisation may come back to haunt her. I'm always wary of those sort of accounts, designed to make someone look particularly tough or good - remember May's people leaking about how she tore Osborne a new strip or whatever? Might have sounded good at the time, but in hindsight not the best move.
    STV and BBC Scotland were both out on the streets getting the reaction from the public yesterday, one comment from a gentleman in Dundee stood out as he said he quite liked Kate Forbes as she was fiesty and she sounded honest. The SNP have a lot of Westminster and Holyrood seats to defend in the Highlands, and Kate is one of the most popular and high profile politicians from that area with a huge majority that reflects that.
    SNP may hang on to Highland seats that they hold because of split Unionist vote. However Angus MacNeil in the Western Isles is toast. He'll lose to Labour. Ferrygate is the final nail in his electoral coffin. It's no wonder he backed Forbes for leader.
    I definitely have Na h-Eileanan an Iar as a Labour gain at the next GE, good decision by SLabour to select Torcuil Crichton as the candidate there. Speaking of the worsening ferry crisis faced by our Island communities..

    Hebrides News - Fire breaks out on MV Hebrides ferry
    http://www.hebrides-news.com/fire-breaks-out-on-mv-hebrides-ferry-28323.html

    "A fire broke out in the engine room of MV Hebrides at sea.

    The vessel returned to Uig pier in Skye where “further investigations are taking place.” Passengers were taken ashore.

    The incident occurred on the first day of normal ferry services to North Uist and Harris following tens weeks of closure for reconstruction.

    Sailings are now suspended until later tomorrow at least. The vessel will remain at Uig overnight.

    Fire crews attended following her arrival back at the pier.

    The incident occurred shortly after the Hebrides cast off with travellers and vehicles heading for Lochmaddy."
    Sounds very much like these old ferries need replacing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,285
    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045

    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
    Very well done by the police there, apparently the whole incident was over in four minutes. They get a lot of grief, sometimes for good reason, but it can’t be an easy job to police somewhere with a routinely armed population and a lot of mental illness around.

    How they can stop bad people getting hold of guns, on the other hand, appears to be one of those unsolvable problems. IIRC, getting a gun licence in the UK requires a letter from your GP stating that you are of sound mind.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    GIN1138 said:

    Riddle me this PB.

    How can Prince Harry sue anyone for invading of his privacy when he has invaded everyone else's privacy including the girl who took his virginity in 2001 (before revealing after his cherry was popped she smacked his ass and sent him on his way) and exposing intimate details of Prince William's penis? 🤷‍♂️

    Because he has the same rights to sue as anyone else. And because he’s a self-absorbed narcissistic chancer.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Saw Lily in Newcastle in the ‘80s before she was famous - she had a great line about what you need in a riot (then very topical) “a pair of flat heels and a shopping trolley”.

    TV presenter and comedian Paul O'Grady has died at the age of 67, his partner Andre Portasio says.

    He died "unexpectedly but peacefully" on Tuesday evening.

    O'Grady rose to fame in the 1990s with his iconic scouse drag queen persona Lily Savage, going on to present game show Blankety Blank and other light entertainment programmes.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65108130

    RIP Paul/Lily & Cilla & Babs

    (Back when comedy was fun and no one gave a fuck about "Pronouns" )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOIGfjcxZE
    Dry sad about Paul O’Grady. He wasn’t that old too. Used to enjoy his BBC Radio 2 show before the unceremoniously dumped him.

    As for Cilla Black, really unpleasant character. Some great stories about her appalling prima Donna nature abound on places like Popbitch and digital spy,
    Was going to say the same re. Cilla, a notoriously difficult person (though for some reason - good job I double-checked - I had mentally ascribed the infamous ‘coffee table’ story to her rather than Una Stubbs).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,796
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
    Very well done by the police there, apparently the whole incident was over in four minutes. They get a lot of grief, sometimes for good reason, but it can’t be an easy job to police somewhere with a routinely armed population and a lot of mental illness around.

    How they can stop bad people getting hold of guns, on the other hand, appears to be one of those unsolvable problems. IIRC, getting a gun licence in the UK requires a letter from your GP stating that you are of sound mind.
    It's a very easily solveable problem. Bring in a licensing system and ban the sale of automatic and semi automatic assault weapons.

    What makes it difficult is there are lying scum on the Supreme Court who value guns more than they do children, for all their pompous bluster on abortion.

    And you can't repeal the ludicrous second amendment of the ludicrous constitution because the states are full of people who are even more hypocritical.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,239
    kle4 said:

    fitalass said:

    Ouch!
    The Spectator - Humza’s latest gaffe has cost him a finance secretary
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/humzas-latest-gaffe-costs-him-a-finance-secretary/

    "Yousaf’s questionable decision-making hasn’t escaped the scrutiny of shrewd political commentators or even his own supporters. Safe to say, they’re less than impressed…"

    "‘What a cheek,’ one senior SNP figure cried of the offer. ‘This move is going down like a cup of cold sick with the members,’ says another."

    "And while SNP MP Joanna Cherry reacts to Forbes’s resignation – ‘what a shame’ – political commentator Kenny Farquharson writes soberingly: ‘FM pushing Forbes out is a sign of weakness, not strength. I would respectfully suggest keeping 48 per cent of your party on side is more important than pandering to the Greens.’"

    But the Greens are so cool and progressive.
    If only they could be a bit more green.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
    Very well done by the police there, apparently the whole incident was over in four minutes. They get a lot of grief, sometimes for good reason, but it can’t be an easy job to police somewhere with a routinely armed population and a lot of mental illness around.

    How they can stop bad people getting hold of guns, on the other hand, appears to be one of those unsolvable problems. IIRC, getting a gun licence in the UK requires a letter from your GP stating that you are of sound mind.
    It's a very easily solveable problem. Bring in a licensing system and ban the sale of automatic and semi automatic assault weapons.

    What makes it difficult is there are lying scum on the Supreme Court who value guns more than they do children, for all their pompous bluster on abortion.

    And you can't repeal the ludicrous second amendment of the ludicrous constitution because the states are full of people who are even more hypocritical.
    There is no saving them- you get what you vote for. The usual shrieks online that the solution is armed guards in schools. So whatever - if they like having their children murdered for freedom its not for us to interfere...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,796

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
    Very well done by the police there, apparently the whole incident was over in four minutes. They get a lot of grief, sometimes for good reason, but it can’t be an easy job to police somewhere with a routinely armed population and a lot of mental illness around.

    How they can stop bad people getting hold of guns, on the other hand, appears to be one of those unsolvable problems. IIRC, getting a gun licence in the UK requires a letter from your GP stating that you are of sound mind.
    It's a very easily solveable problem. Bring in a licensing system and ban the sale of automatic and semi automatic assault weapons.

    What makes it difficult is there are lying scum on the Supreme Court who value guns more than they do children, for all their pompous bluster on abortion.

    And you can't repeal the ludicrous second amendment of the ludicrous constitution because the states are full of people who are even more hypocritical.
    There is no saving them- you get what you vote for. The usual shrieks online that the solution is armed guards in schools. So whatever - if they like having their children murdered for freedom its not for us to interfere...
    The problem in the US is that their appalling constitution means they often don't get what they vote for.

    Which is one reason it urgently needs updating.

    But it will never happen due to how badly thought through the amendment/redrafting process is.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,558

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
    Very well done by the police there, apparently the whole incident was over in four minutes. They get a lot of grief, sometimes for good reason, but it can’t be an easy job to police somewhere with a routinely armed population and a lot of mental illness around.

    How they can stop bad people getting hold of guns, on the other hand, appears to be one of those unsolvable problems. IIRC, getting a gun licence in the UK requires a letter from your GP stating that you are of sound mind.
    It's a very easily solveable problem. Bring in a licensing system and ban the sale of automatic and semi automatic assault weapons.

    What makes it difficult is there are lying scum on the Supreme Court who value guns more than they do children, for all their pompous bluster on abortion.

    And you can't repeal the ludicrous second amendment of the ludicrous constitution because the states are full of people who are even more hypocritical.
    There is no saving them- you get what you vote for. The usual shrieks online that the solution is armed guards in schools. So whatever - if they like having their children murdered for freedom its not for us to interfere...
    Unfortunately the solution they need would never be acceptable.

    Firstly you ban magazine loaded pistols - the only pistols allowed are revolvers with a maximum chamber of 6. You can only keep 6 bullets at home per gun and only one pistol per adult registered at the household. This allows those who are determined that they need to be able to defend themselves in their homes to still believe that but limits the danger of someone picking up their six glocks with larger semi-automatic magazines and going on a rampage.

    Anyone who wants a long barrelled gun for “hunting”, well that’s fine - you can have a non semi-automatic breach loading rifle and, say ten rounds at home but you also have to show you have a hunting licence to buy the gun and the ammo - after all if you are using it for hunting then you need the licence anyway so no imposition by the state.

    If you are determined that when you want to go hunting you need a magazine fed semi-automatic to kill hundreds of deer in an afternoon then you can have one but you have to keep the magazines at the gun shop, gun club or local police station and collect them before hunting. This would stop people having instant access to bigger fire power and anyone in a crazy state about to go on a shooting spree is less likely to be able to withdraw their magazines and ammo from the official custodian.

    But it would never pass because of some bs about freedom to bear arms.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    NEW THREAD
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Nashville school shooter legally purchased 7 guns, 3 used in the massacre, while being treated for an "emotional disorder." Tell me again how there's nothing that lawmakers -- whose literal job is to make laws -- can do anything about mass shootings.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1640794251419176960

    I won’t link to it but the Nashville police have posted bodycam footage of them going into the school - at least they acted bravely and swiftly compared to their peers in Texas.
    Very well done by the police there, apparently the whole incident was over in four minutes. They get a lot of grief, sometimes for good reason, but it can’t be an easy job to police somewhere with a routinely armed population and a lot of mental illness around.

    How they can stop bad people getting hold of guns, on the other hand, appears to be one of those unsolvable problems. IIRC, getting a gun licence in the UK requires a letter from your GP stating that you are of sound mind.
    It's a very easily solveable problem. Bring in a licensing system and ban the sale of automatic and semi automatic assault weapons.

    What makes it difficult is there are lying scum on the Supreme Court who value guns more than they do children, for all their pompous bluster on abortion.

    And you can't repeal the ludicrous second amendment of the ludicrous constitution because the states are full of people who are even more hypocritical.
    There is no saving them- you get what you vote for. The usual shrieks online that the solution is armed guards in schools. So whatever - if they like having their children murdered for freedom its not for us to interfere...
    The problem in the US is that their appalling constitution means they often don't get what they vote for.

    Which is one reason it urgently needs updating.

    But it will never happen due to how badly thought through the amendment/redrafting process is.
    They do though. The congressman for this area posing with his family on their Christmas card with machine guns. People voted for him! They think that is both normal and admirable!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,516

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    I suspect that a fair few SNP members who voted for Kate Forbes were expecting Humza Yousaf to offer her nothing less than the post of Deputy FM, and they too will see this as a humiliating snub. Humza is making no attempt to even heal the splits among his Parliamentary party and the remaining SNP membership grassroots, far less the wider Independence movement.

    Stephen Daisley absolutely nails it in The Spectator - Kate Forbes quitting is a nightmare for the SNP
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/kate-forbes-quitting-is-a-nightmare-for-the-snp/

    "Now, some will say that Forbes, a Highland MSP, ought to have taken the rural affairs job and used it to improve the lot of those parts of Scotland that were neglected under Sturgeon’s government. But rural affairs is not going to be a priority under Yousaf either. He’s a city boy. He loves cities so much that he represents one while living in another. He shows no particular interest in or understanding of rural Scotland. That he considers the rural affairs post a demotion with which to punish an opponent is perhaps an indication of the regard in which he holds this brief. For Forbes to have taken it under these circumstances would have been to acquiesce in an act of disrespect for communities that have been disrespected more than enough by the SNP."

    Rural Scottish seats held by the SNP like Gordon, Angus, Argyll and Bute, Ayrshire Central and Perth and North Pershire are now prime Conservative targets
    Ayrshire Central is certainly not a rural seat. The Conservative vote consists mainly of comfortably off retirees in Troon and Prestwick and staunch orangemen in Irvine and Dreghorn.
    Fairlie, no mention of the Burgh of Culture, I am disappointed
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,516
    fitalass said:

    DavidL said:

    Stupid, stupid move by Yousless. Truss may be holding her breath about her record.

    Meanwhile Scotland suffers.

    It will be interesting to see what the SNP membership figures are six months from now, and also if some SNP associations are struggling for activists to do leaflet drops etc? Hopefully there will be the odd Scottish poll too.
    What chance of them showing real numbers though,
This discussion has been closed.