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Punters give Johnson a 7% chance of being CON general election leader – politicalbetting.com

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  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
  • Disgraceful

    A police constable has kept her job despite being found guilty of gross misconduct for using excessive force when she repeatedly struck the former footballer Dalian Atkinson with her baton as he lay dying.

    An independent tribunal found that Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, a West Mercia police officer, acted wrongly when she hit the former Aston Villa striker three times during an incident in August 2016.

    Atkinson, who retired from football in 2001, later died in hospital aged 48.

    However, Bettley-Smith, 32, who was on probation at the time of the incident, was allowed to keep her job after an intervention from West Mercia’s deputy chief constable. She was instead given a written warning.

    Elaine Atkinson, Dalian’s sister, spoke of her disappointment at the ruling and accused the force of “looking after its own”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dalian-atkinson-death-mary-ellen-bettley-smith-2hj6qcs7x

    A 'Verbal' is pretty severe though, TSE. It reflects the Forces determination to deal with such miscreants.

    I did wonder whether they might apply the draconian Stand In The Corner punishment, but maybe that would have been a bit harsh.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Jonathan said:

    If Boris is dumped by the committee will Sunak be secure enough to ditch Braverman?

    It would surely take a braver man than Sunak to try that path?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    I am starting to wonder if the SNP are trying to destroy themselves. They've found I think the only possible way to make the Murray Foote story worse.

    The party was asked a specific question about loss of members as a direct result of the GRR [gender recognition reform] Bill and Indyref2. The answer given was intended to make clear that these two reasons had not been the cause of significant numbers of members leaving.
    "The membership figure is normally produced annually and is not produced in response to individual media queries, including in this instance.
    "In retrospect, however, we should not have relied on an understanding of people's reasons for leaving as the basis of the information given to Murray and, thereafter, the media.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64993032

    To say 'we lied and we got caught but we misunderstood the question so technically we are just thick' isn't exactly a great look.

    The 'We're idiots' defence is always the last refuge for politicians.

    That response and justification is just woeful. And distinctly implausible. I think given the media guy has gone they'd have been better off just admitting it was a lie.

    Edit: I do love it though when someone quits but their people talk about how great they are or deny wrongdoing, leading to the obvious question of why they are leaving. Like when Cabinet Minister resign and are fulsome in praise of the PM, making it bemusing why they quit.
    Could not have happened to a nicer person, he is getting his just desserts. he was the liar who gave it the VOW at referendum, a pack of lies made up by him and Brown. He will not be missed and hopefully oblivion beckons.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Spring 2023 will not commence, astronomically speaking, until next Monday. But here in Seattle, after a long, wet, below-average cold Winter, today looks, feels and even smells like the First Day of Spring.

    Temperature has hit 60F the warmest of the year so far, with sunny skies and light winds. Earlier this afternoon, went to pick up a Hawai'an (aka Aloha) shirt I'd ordered by mail . . . wearing another Hawai'ian shirt!

    Bit later went to the bank to visit some of my money, just after kids were being let out of school, daycare, whatever. As a Fenian and an American, found it heartwarming that, even in this super-hip city, most of the girls & boys I saw, where wearing green, somewhere. Cutest were two little sisters, say 4 or 5, both with identical green skirts that looked specially homemade. Both sporting "look at us!" looks as coyly as they could.

    Someone might whisper into Napper Tandy's ear, that these kids in green in Seattle, were from a rainbow of different colors, ethnic origins, religions, backgrounds.

    Because in America, on St Patrick's Day EVERYONE is Irish.

    That's the way it was in my schooldays, long ago. And it's still the same today - even more so.

    I would have thought that, astronomically speaking, spring would start on the cross-quarter day near the start of February. If you start spring at the equinox then you have the same amount of sunlight in spring as summer. How does that make sense as an astronomical definition?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Reed said:

    kle4 said:

    Reed said:

    Dont want to go on about the ukraine war too much but this is in the telegraph. Us officials estimate 120,000 casualties for ukrainian army and 200000 for Russians. So 320000 in total.

    Ukraine has demoted a top battlefield commander after he admitted his unit had been decimated in fighting around the city of Bakhmut.

    The battalion commander, known by his call sign Kupol, gave an unusually frank assessment of Ukrainian losses in an interview from the front lines earlier this week.

    He revealed that all of the original 500 soldiers in his unit had either been killed or injured, a rare acknowledgement from inside the Ukrainian ranks, where losses are kept strictly confidential.

    The Ukrainian high command is at pains to present a positive spin on the increasingly bloody defence of the east of the country. US officials have estimated that the Ukrainian army may have taken 120,000 casualties compared with 200,000 by the Russian army.

    Kupol told the Washington Post this week that the Ukrainian army training was often poor and that some of the rookie replacements didn’t know how to throw a hand grenade or fire a rifle.

    Others had abandoned their positions shortly after arriving at the front line, he said.

    It is interesting that some commentators, not Russian shill ones that is, have one way or another suggested the Bakhmut strategy is not the right move in their eyes, in terms of cost.

    Its tying up a lot of ukrainian troops which could be needed for a spring offensive.
    It has completely blunted the Russian offensive that they were setting so much stock by
    Yes, weeks ago they were boasting hourly that they had taken Bakhmut but have gone silent.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I commend to readers a very fine article on Brexit...

    Brexit didn’t work because the people in charge weren’t smart. Brexit didn’t work because islands need trade and shouldn’t be isolationist. Brexit didn’t work because, if you’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage, you’re not dealing with the brains of the operation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-samuel-brexit-failed-freedoms-uk-2023-gkftm2pgl
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    This is the darkest, most insane video yet. I cannot imagine any other president saying Americans, not RUSSIA, is our enemy. This should put chills down the spine of every American
    https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1636897576459853825

    His grammar puts chills down mine.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tony Blair is a genius.
    He took the UK's alpha party by the throat and kicked its arse up and down the Main Street in full public view.
    And then kicked it again just for fun.
    And again just because he could.
    If he'd joined the Tories he'd still have been PM.

    Perhaps Tony Blair was a genius.

    Then he crawled up Dubya's lower colon - and destroyed his reputation. Forever.
    To a chorus of Tory "Higher!!"
    Indeed. Though according to a snippet of an R4 programme I listened to today, Dubya offered to let Britain off joining the US in Iraq because he said he would prefer to keep Blair in office above the British assisting with the invasion. Quite what issue he had with IDS who as you say was an even more passionate supporter, we may never know.
    Everyone knows IDS was totally useless so it could have been that.
  • Nigelb said:

    This is the darkest, most insane video yet. I cannot imagine any other president saying Americans, not RUSSIA, is our enemy. This should put chills down the spine of every American
    https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1636897576459853825

    His grammar puts chills down mine.

    This comment did make me laugh.

    Was this written by ChatGoebbelsPT?

    https://twitter.com/ajpennyfarthing/status/1636972212036186113?s=46&t=jkvRY6JsvE1I-2t12-QBqQ
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Sandpit said:

    Liz Lloyd, who was Ms Sturgeon’s chief of staff between 2015 and 2021 and later became her “strategic adviser”, said she plans to pursue new opportunities outside of politics.

    Lewis Hamilton’s new personal trainer?
    More like further work with another Nick, Auld Nick himself. If Useless gets beaten she may have more to worry her.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    The international criminal indictment against Putin is for the mass kidnapping of Ukrainian children.

    He has provided copious evidence against himself, as in this example.

    This is reprehensible. Important Stories identified 6 stolen children from Mariupol that were thrown on stage with Putin the other day. The global community must do everything to return the tens of thousands of kidnapped Ukrainian children. This is genocide
    https://mobile.twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1629367531453513729
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Nigelb said:

    This is the darkest, most insane video yet. I cannot imagine any other president saying Americans, not RUSSIA, is our enemy. This should put chills down the spine of every American
    https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1636897576459853825

    His grammar puts chills down mine.

    Well, if you will watch videos of Trump...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    edited March 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    I commend to readers a very fine article on Brexit...

    Brexit didn’t work because the people in charge weren’t smart. Brexit didn’t work because islands need trade and shouldn’t be isolationist. Brexit didn’t work because, if you’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage, you’re not dealing with the brains of the operation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-samuel-brexit-failed-freedoms-uk-2023-gkftm2pgl

    I'm reminded of an anecdote Craig Brown tells. He was at a party (Alan Clark's "I'm an MP again" party in 1997, I think) and noted to himself that the party guests were all the most awful people in London. And then, Brown being Brown, he mused on what his presence at the party said about him.

    When all this is over (which will take a generation), it will be interesting to know
    what civilised, thoughtful Brexit backers thought of the people they campaigned with and governed with to get the thing they desired. And what this says about them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Scott_xP said:

    I commend to readers a very fine article on Brexit...

    Brexit didn’t work because the people in charge weren’t smart. Brexit didn’t work because islands need trade and shouldn’t be isolationist. Brexit didn’t work because, if you’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage, you’re not dealing with the brains of the operation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-samuel-brexit-failed-freedoms-uk-2023-gkftm2pgl

    Yebbut Rees-Mogg said it could take 50 years. I am sure I saw that painted on the side of a bus.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Scott_xP said:

    I commend to readers a very fine article on Brexit...

    Brexit didn’t work because the people in charge weren’t smart. Brexit didn’t work because islands need trade and shouldn’t be isolationist. Brexit didn’t work because, if you’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage, you’re not dealing with the brains of the operation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-samuel-brexit-failed-freedoms-uk-2023-gkftm2pgl

    On the other side you had Stuart Rose, Tristram Hunt and Nicola 'I don't recall' Sturgeon.

    All the last point proves is that there are a great many thick people at the top of politics.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Scott_xP said:

    I commend to readers a very fine article on Brexit...

    Brexit didn’t work because the people in charge weren’t smart. Brexit didn’t work because islands need trade and shouldn’t be isolationist. Brexit didn’t work because, if you’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage, you’re not dealing with the brains of the operation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-samuel-brexit-failed-freedoms-uk-2023-gkftm2pgl

    Yebbut Rees-Mogg said it could take 50 years. I am sure I saw that painted on the side of a bus.
    He thought he might grow a brain in 50 years? That's truly mindless optimism.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited March 2023
    Not sure if this has been posted - small steps:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/18/braverman-criticised-for-shutting-out-guardian-and-bbc-from-rwanda-trip

    "Without freedom of the press, there can be no representative government." Tallyrand
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    When all this is over (which will take a generation), it will be interesting to know
    what civilised, thoughtful Brexit backers thought of the people they campaigned with and governed with to get the thing they desired. And what this says about them.

    Dan Hannan was quite happy to be on the same side as Nigel Fucking Farage right up until the morning after the vote, when suddenly he was not part of the same campaign.

    History will not distinguish between those who wanted Brexit for "noble" reasons, and the shysters who gaslit an entire Nation for personal gain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Not sure if this has been posted - small steps:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/18/braverman-criticised-for-shutting-out-guardian-and-bbc-from-rwanda-trip

    "Without freedom of the press, there can be no representative government." Tallyrand

    @StillWaters was right yesterday about Talleyrand saying many things that are pertinent, wasn't he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    You have to wonder how long Leclerc and Sainz are going to put up with this nonsense from Ferrari before losing patience a la Alonso and moving elsewhere.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    If the case for the EU, or against leaving it, cannot be made and instead the line taken is "But you're voting with horrid/stupid people" then that is not exactly indicative of a powerful case on the other side.

    The case was made.

    The horrid/stupid people called it Project Fear.

    We were right.

    They were wrong.

    It may be true that calling them horrid/stupid didn't sway any votes, but the fact that they were horrid/stupid remains true, and it is entirely reasonable to point out that those who voted with the horrid/stupid people ended up with the horrid/stupid result.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    ydoethur said:

    You have to wonder how long Leclerc and Sainz are going to put up with this nonsense from Ferrari before losing patience a la Alonso and moving elsewhere.
    Leclerc and Norris must be keeping Toto’s phone number close to hand at the moment, hoping that LH announces his retirement soon. Mercedes might not be top of their game at the moment, but at least they look like they’re interested in getting back up there, whereas Ferrari and McLaren don’t seem to know where they’re going at all.

    Appearently the problem for Lecerc in Bahrain was a fried wiring loom, due to a poor design. Hence having a grid penalty at the second race, something that’s never happened before, and as these complex engines have got more reliable for everyone else.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. xP, still awaiting the downfall of civilisation Tusk suggested.

    The fear-mongering was so overblown it became dismissed by the electorate, including more legitimate concerns.

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, the development race this season is going to be very interesting. I think Red Bull is getting less wind tunnel time (might be next year? Unsure).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Mr. xP, still awaiting the downfall of civilisation Tusk suggested.

    Ukraine says hi
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Scott_xP said:

    Mr. xP, still awaiting the downfall of civilisation Tusk suggested.

    Ukraine says hi
    Please tell me you didn't mean to say Ukraine happened because of Brexit.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    latest update from SNP insider who has been extremely accurate up to now!

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited March 2023

    Mr. xP, still awaiting the downfall of civilisation Tusk suggested.

    The fear-mongering was so overblown it became dismissed by the electorate, including more legitimate concerns.

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, the development race this season is going to be very interesting. I think Red Bull is getting less wind tunnel time (might be next year? Unsure).

    Because describing your political opponents as bad people is never a good idea, whether it’s Hillary Clinton and the “basket of deplorables”, or Stuart Rose saying that leaving the EU will mean wages go up at the bottom end of the scale.

    Yes, there’s a sliding scale of wind tunnel and CFD (virtual wind tunnel) time, based on championship position last season, and RB got a further 20% reduction in such time this year, as a penalty for employing too many chefs* in 2020.

    *they argued that they only went over the budget cap because of catering, so shouldn’t be given a punishment as it had no effect on the car design. Cue jokes about adverts for a chef on £150k per year, requiring a Masters degree in aeronautical engineering and 10 years’ experience working in aviation or automotive.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Not sure if this has been posted - small steps:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/18/braverman-criticised-for-shutting-out-guardian-and-bbc-from-rwanda-trip

    "Without freedom of the press, there can be no representative government." Tallyrand

    Even though I am sympathetic, supportive even of a lot of her ideas; Braverman like Patel before her has an extremely provocative political style which I find highly off-putting.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. xP, well, Ukraine was initially invaded in 2014.

    2014 is a famous year for several reasons, one of which is that it came before 2016.

    More recently, the UK has been one of (if not the) leading nations training the Ukrainian armed forces and has taken the forefront of larger European countries in supplying arms.

    This despite hesitancy on the likes of France and Germany.

    It's also worth mentioning that Putin's military transgressions in Georgia also predate 2016. The common thread is not the UK having a referendum. It's the Russian leader being an invasion addict.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    malcolmg said:

    latest update from SNP insider who has been extremely accurate up to now!

    I was accused of hyperbole by everyone's favourite Sweden based xenophobe for quoting Frazer's 'this is like watching men committing suicide.'

    Regardless of whether these rather vague allegations you keep posting are true or not (we'll see) I'm thinking I actually missed on the side of downplaying it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,650
    edited March 2023
    Life imitates art. Roderick Spode's inspiration has been fulfilled by Australian Fascists:

    https://twitter.com/StrewthQueen/status/1636973829892485122?t=xyIT_WaPtlaIRPmrdLjeKQ&s=19
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Mr. xP, well, Ukraine was initially invaded in 2014.

    2014 is a famous year for several reasons, one of which is that it came before 2016.

    More recently, the UK has been one of (if not the) leading nations training the Ukrainian armed forces and has taken the forefront of larger European countries in supplying arms.

    This despite hesitancy on the likes of France and Germany.

    It's also worth mentioning that Putin's military transgressions in Georgia also predate 2016. The common thread is not the UK having a referendum. It's the Russian leader being an invasion addict.

    The first notable attempt at Russia annexing Ukraine by stealth was as long ago as 2003, when the FSB tried to rig a presidential election and assassinate one of the candidates.

    They bungled it, but they have proved remarkably persistent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. Doethur, aye, seems like they wanted a Belarus clone. Economically stagnant, but blindly obedient to 'Mother' Russia.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    latest update from SNP insider who has been extremely accurate up to now!

    I was accused of hyperbole by everyone's favourite Sweden based xenophobe for quoting Frazer's 'this is like watching men committing suicide.'

    Regardless of whether these rather vague allegations you keep posting are true or not (we'll see) I'm thinking I actually missed on the side of downplaying it.
    Yes for sure and it still looks like at 72K members they are over counting by 20K ( members left but kept on books) and yet they issued 78K votes and expect people to just believe it when Murrell says Humza won. Unfortunately some people who received stray voting papers were not the tame sheeple.
    Betting now is Murrell to be gone by Monday and likely he is already hunkered down in one of their foreign houses.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Mr. xP, still awaiting the downfall of civilisation Tusk suggested.

    The fear-mongering was so overblown it became dismissed by the electorate, including more legitimate concerns.

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, the development race this season is going to be very interesting. I think Red Bull is getting less wind tunnel time (might be next year? Unsure).

    Funny that, Mr Dancer, I'm still waiting for the sunlit uplands, the decreased bureaucracy, the new free trade (as opposed to ones rolled over from the EU) deals, the lack of downsides, the "better" trade deal with the EU all promised by Leavers. Leave won the referendum by promising stuff it knew it couldn't deliver. The idea that the people who tried to prevent this shit show are in some way responsible for it is patent nonsense peddled by Leavers on here who kept telling us how much smarter they were.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Mr. xP, still awaiting the downfall of civilisation Tusk suggested.

    The fear-mongering was so overblown it became dismissed by the electorate, including more legitimate concerns.

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, the development race this season is going to be very interesting. I think Red Bull is getting less wind tunnel time (might be next year? Unsure).

    Whereas Vote Leave and Leave.EU didn't indulge in any fear mongering at all. Good heavens no.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    latest update from SNP insider who has been extremely accurate up to now!

    I was accused of hyperbole by everyone's favourite Sweden based xenophobe for quoting Frazer's 'this is like watching men committing suicide.'

    Regardless of whether these rather vague allegations you keep posting are true or not (we'll see) I'm thinking I actually missed on the side of downplaying it.
    Yes for sure and it still looks like at 72K members they are over counting by 20K ( members left but kept on books) and yet they issued 78K votes and expect people to just believe it when Murrell says Humza won. Unfortunately some people who received stray voting papers were not the tame sheeple.
    Betting now is Murrell to be gone by Monday and likely he is already hunkered down in one of their foreign houses.
    Watching from afar, it does appear that not even making a public announcement as to the number of party members entitled to vote, makes it easy for people to suggest something going on behind the scenes.

    Labour and the Tories both use ERS to conduct their internal elections, which looks more impartial.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ydoethur said:

    Not sure if this has been posted - small steps:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/18/braverman-criticised-for-shutting-out-guardian-and-bbc-from-rwanda-trip

    "Without freedom of the press, there can be no representative government." Tallyrand

    @StillWaters was right yesterday about Talleyrand saying many things that are pertinent, wasn't he?
    Yes indeed, it was StillWaters mention of Tallyrand that led me to explore his quotes; this one seemed apposite.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. Romford, blind optimism was the main flaw of the Leave campaign. Both were dreadful, although Remain did astonishingly poorly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:


    Yes, there’s a sliding scale of wind tunnel and CFD (virtual wind tunnel) time, based on championship position last season, and RB got a further 20% reduction in such time this year, as a penalty for employing too many chefs* in 2020.

    This seems like a lot of colossally expensive dicking around. They should ballast at 2kg/point (or whatever) like Super GT/DTM. The more you win, the heavier your car gets,
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Penddu2 said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
    My understanding is that our best guess is that St. Patrick was born somewhere in modern day Cumbria.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Scott_xP said:

    When all this is over (which will take a generation), it will be interesting to know
    what civilised, thoughtful Brexit backers thought of the people they campaigned with and governed with to get the thing they desired. And what this says about them.

    Dan Hannan was quite happy to be on the same side as Nigel Fucking Farage right up until the morning after the vote, when suddenly he was not part of the same campaign.

    History will not distinguish between those who wanted Brexit for "noble" reasons, and the shysters who gaslit an entire Nation for personal gain.
    ...although why you mention Hannan in response to a post about 'civilised, thoughtful Brexit backers' is beyond me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Whereas Vote Leave and Leave.EU didn't indulge in any fear mongering at all. Good heavens no.

    It is interesting that to this day any discussion about the merits of the reality of Brexit are 'countered' by "the remain campaign was shit"

    Maybe true, but Brexit is shit, and we should talk about that, which is the whole point of the article
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Cookie said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
    My understanding is that our best guess is that St. Patrick was born somewhere in modern day Cumbria.
    That *was* Welsh at the time - hence the Cymru- name.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    .
    Foxy said:

    Life imitates art. Roderick Spode's inspiration has been fulfilled by Australian Fascists:

    https://twitter.com/StrewthQueen/status/1636973829892485122?t=xyIT_WaPtlaIRPmrdLjeKQ&s=19

    Ha, saw that and thought exactly the same! A bunch of dorks, but I guess dangerous dorks.

    Billy Bragg seems to have pinned his rainbow colours to the mast, to the point that Bindel is now demanding public apologies and threatening him with legal action if it’s not forthcoming.. These free speech folk can be awfully touchy.


  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Mr. Romford, blind optimism was the main flaw of the Leave campaign. Both were dreadful, although Remain did astonishingly poorly.

    There was some crazy optimism on the Leave side about how much of the good stuff we could continue to get out of Europe while giving them little in return but the pleasure of our company.

    And the remain campaign was stunningly mediocre.

    But both strands of the Leave campaign were more than happy to project fear. "Turkey is joining"? "Breaking Point"? "Vote Leave or your granny will wait for hours at the doctor's"? "There will be an EU army and we won't be able to stop it"?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Scott_xP said:

    Whereas Vote Leave and Leave.EU didn't indulge in any fear mongering at all. Good heavens no.

    It is interesting that to this day any discussion about the merits of the reality of Brexit are 'countered' by "the remain campaign was shit"

    Maybe true, but Brexit is shit, and we should talk about that, which is the whole point of the article
    But Bremain would have also been shit.
    I am unconvvinced that we would be in a better place had the result gone the other way. In fact, I'm convinced that we wouldn't be.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    Scott_xP said:

    I commend to readers a very fine article on Brexit...

    Brexit didn’t work because the people in charge weren’t smart. Brexit didn’t work because islands need trade and shouldn’t be isolationist. Brexit didn’t work because, if you’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage, you’re not dealing with the brains of the operation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-samuel-brexit-failed-freedoms-uk-2023-gkftm2pgl

    Given that the article contradicts itself within 3 sentences, the author himself doesn't appear to be the brightest bulb in the box, does he?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,650
    Cookie said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
    My understanding is that our best guess is that St. Patrick was born somewhere in modern day Cumbria.
    As has been pointed out, there is no England, just occupied Wales...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
    My understanding is that our best guess is that St. Patrick was born somewhere in modern day Cumbria.
    That *was* Welsh at the time - hence the Cymru- name.
    Well, sort of. Clearly it wasn't English. I was merely raising a polite eyebrow at the South Wales syggestion (I've since checked Wikipedia, which suggests several locations in Cumbria, as I understood, though also notes the modern South Wales theory - today is the first time I'd heard of that.)
    But calling fourth-century Cumbria Wales is stretching it almost as much as calling it England. Wales certainly wasn't a thing back then either. (Though yes, Cumbria and Cymru come from the same root.)
    I think it is probably most correct to say he was 'British'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,100

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.



  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    UBS have ruined my weekend.

    I may have to roll out the emergency AV thread tomorrow.

    They deserve to be stuffed on taking over Credit Suisse for that alone.

    Couldn't you combine the two? How bank takeovers should be done using an AV system of bidders?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    Your bells are rung by AI? :hushed: Whatever you do, don't tell Leon!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012
    I guess politicians aren't too keen on St. Patrick.

    After all, he has a reputation for driving out snakes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    edited March 2023
    If Oddschecker is a guide, most bookies have pulled out of offering odds for next FM/SNP leader. Including Hills.

    Is it possible that this is because of the allegations swirling around the reliability of the election? Which would be extraordinary but understandable.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    Nigelb said:

    Horse_B said:

    Good evening.

    Is that the Horse returning ?
    If so, welcome back.
    Is that one of @MoonRabbit tips just finishing up?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,100

    Disgraceful

    A police constable has kept her job despite being found guilty of gross misconduct for using excessive force when she repeatedly struck the former footballer Dalian Atkinson with her baton as he lay dying.

    An independent tribunal found that Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, a West Mercia police officer, acted wrongly when she hit the former Aston Villa striker three times during an incident in August 2016.

    Atkinson, who retired from football in 2001, later died in hospital aged 48.

    However, Bettley-Smith, 32, who was on probation at the time of the incident, was allowed to keep her job after an intervention from West Mercia’s deputy chief constable. She was instead given a written warning.

    Elaine Atkinson, Dalian’s sister, spoke of her disappointment at the ruling and accused the force of “looking after its own”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dalian-atkinson-death-mary-ellen-bettley-smith-2hj6qcs7x

    I would love to see what the warning said please dont beat people as they lay dying?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    kle4 said:

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.



    Sunak, if he can force Johnson to be suspended and recalled, should do it. It's very difficult to see how he could win a by-election, which would puncture his mystique and eliminate him as a threat. And if he doesn't contest the by-election, he's out of the Commons and much less important anyway.

    I suppose there is a danger his support could then coalesce around another MP, but the truth is there isn't anyone of Johnson's stature to replace him. They would be Peelites without a Peel with a vengeance. At least the 'slice off the top' of 1922 could boast Balfour, Austen Chamberlain, Birkenhead and Horne.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,650
    algarkirk said:

    If Oddschecker is a guide, most bookies have pulled out of offering odds for next FM/SNP leader. Including Hills.

    Is it possible that this is because of the allegations swirling around the reliability of the election? Which would be extraordinary but understandable.

    This SNP leadership contest does seem to be responsible for the run on popcorn 🍿 🤔 😀
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    I guess politicians aren't too keen on St. Patrick.

    After all, he has a reputation for driving out snakes.

    Johnson is a pound shop St Patrick. He's trying to drive out a Snake.

    (Terrible pun on Sunak.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    Covid origins: New genetic material from China points to raccoon dogs and other wildlife
    Data collected from market in Wuhan provides ‘strongest evidence’ yet that animals susceptible to Sars-Cov-2 were at traded at the site

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-origins-new-genetic-material-china-points-raccoon-dogs/ (£££)

    "It also shows that China is sitting on more data than it has previously released or shared globally."

    File under "NS,S...."
    Or they’ve had the time to fabricate it
  • O/T Season 3 of Picard is absolutely brilliant.

    Wonderful stuff.

    I hope we get a Captain Shaw spin off.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    algarkirk said:

    If Oddschecker is a guide, most bookies have pulled out of offering odds for next FM/SNP leader. Including Hills.

    Is it possible that this is because of the allegations swirling around the reliability of the election? Which would be extraordinary but understandable.

    Or possibly nobody is making bets because Forbes seems so likely to win?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012
    ydoethur said:

    I guess politicians aren't too keen on St. Patrick.

    After all, he has a reputation for driving out snakes.

    Johnson is a pound shop St Patrick. He's trying to drive out a Snake.

    (Terrible pun on Sunak.)
    Johnson is now a pound shop Johnson.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    Yes, there’s a sliding scale of wind tunnel and CFD (virtual wind tunnel) time, based on championship position last season, and RB got a further 20% reduction in such time this year, as a penalty for employing too many chefs* in 2020.

    This seems like a lot of colossally expensive dicking around. They should ballast at 2kg/point (or whatever) like Super GT/DTM. The more you win, the heavier your car gets,
    In my mind, the development restrictions are quite an elegant solution for a prototype championship. Success ballast is a blunt instrument, not really F1.
  • ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Oddschecker is a guide, most bookies have pulled out of offering odds for next FM/SNP leader. Including Hills.

    Is it possible that this is because of the allegations swirling around the reliability of the election? Which would be extraordinary but understandable.

    Or possibly nobody is making bets because Forbes seems so likely to win?
    There’s a YouGov SNP members poll in the field.

    Might be linked to that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012

    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
    Now you're just yanking his chain!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,100
    malcolmg said:

    latest update from SNP insider who has been extremely accurate up to now!

    Rather dramatic. Starting position is generally to be sceptical of exciting claims as by their nature they do not occur very often, but we shall see. It would all be a bit boring if Humza wins and it all just peters out now.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
    sounds a bit Camp to me......

    (i'll get my coat...)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,100
    edited March 2023

    O/T Season 3 of Picard is absolutely brilliant.

    Wonderful stuff.

    I hope we get a Captain Shaw spin off.

    I like Trek but after years with not enough we've got too much at the moment.

    Edit: to clarify, I just mean to wait on adding more spinoffs as there's only so many good sci fi writers to go around.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Cookie said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
    My understanding is that our best guess is that St. Patrick was born somewhere in modern day Cumbria.
    Candidates locally include Birdoswald, Patterdale, and, my favourite Aspatria. Charles Thomas is the most entertaining read on the matter. Naturally no-one has a clue.

    BTW on 1st April Cumbria divides into 2 counties; Cumberland, and Westmorland and Furness.

    Expect a row from the folks just south of Carlisle who are about to discover that their county town/administrative HQ is somewhere in the deep south they have never heard of. And from the good people of Penrith, historically Cumberland's great border town with Westmorland, now thrown out of Cumberland.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Our news folks almost never mention, during the US celebration of St. Patrick's Day, that St. Patrick was English, and that his first visit to Ireland was not entirely voluntary.

    Which is too bad, because it's an interesting story.

    St. Patrick was from what we today call "England" but he was NOT English, rather he was British Celt.

    He wasn't regaling his Irish "hosts" with "Knees Up Mother" or even "Beowulf".
    St Patrick was not English - or from what we today call England. He was from Wales. Born in Banwen near Neath. Arguably the most famous Welshman of all time.
    He's no Ryan Giggs or Mark Drakeford.
    The only Welshman who could challenge him today would be Gareth Bale. But Padrig has been around for longer ..,and will continue to be famous for as long as there is a United States of America.
    My understanding is that our best guess is that St. Patrick was born somewhere in modern day Cumbria.
    That *was* Welsh at the time - hence the Cymru- name.
    Well, sort of. Clearly it wasn't English. I was merely raising a polite eyebrow at the South Wales syggestion (I've since checked Wikipedia, which suggests several locations in Cumbria, as I understood, though also notes the modern South Wales theory - today is the first time I'd heard of that.)
    But calling fourth-century Cumbria Wales is stretching it almost as much as calling it England. Wales certainly wasn't a thing back then either. (Though yes, Cumbria and Cymru come from the same root.)
    I think it is probably most correct to say he was 'British'.
    The Battle of Chester (613) detached what became modern-day Wales from what became modern-day Cumbria. Before that, they were contiguous and occupied by a people that spoke either Old Welsh or Latin.

    If we adopt your view, Ptolemy is Egyptian, Hipparchus is Turkish and Eratosthenes is Libyan.

    In fact, they were all product of a Greek civilisation that extended way beyond modern Greece.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.

    Sunak, if he can force Johnson to be suspended and recalled, should do it. It's very difficult to see how he could win a by-election, which would puncture his mystique and eliminate him as a threat. And if he doesn't contest the by-election, he's out of the Commons and much less important anyway.

    I suppose there is a danger his support could then coalesce around another MP, but the truth is there isn't anyone of Johnson's stature to replace him. They would be Peelites without a Peel with a vengeance. At least the 'slice off the top' of 1922 could boast Balfour, Austen Chamberlain, Birkenhead and Horne.
    If the Privileges Committee suspends Johnson for more than 10 days he would surely do best to resign immediately and seek nomination in an alternative safe Tory seat. He's not coming back as PM this parliament anyway; better to bid for LOTO when Sunak loses the election and hope to beat Labour in 2028/9.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    O/T Season 3 of Picard is absolutely brilliant.

    Wonderful stuff.

    I hope we get a Captain Shaw spin off.

    Do we have to sit through the turgid seasons 1 and 2 to make sense of it?
  • Scott_xP said:

    O/T Season 3 of Picard is absolutely brilliant.

    Wonderful stuff.

    I hope we get a Captain Shaw spin off.

    Do we have to sit through the turgid seasons 1 and 2 to make sense of it?
    A lil bit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
    sounds a bit Camp to me......

    (i'll get my coat...)
    Pull the other one.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811
    Scott_xP said:

    O/T Season 3 of Picard is absolutely brilliant.

    Wonderful stuff.

    I hope we get a Captain Shaw spin off.

    Do we have to sit through the turgid seasons 1 and 2 to make sense of it?
    Not really, just accept that one new character exists and is completely rubbish as well as Seven and Picard being besties and you're good to go.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Horse_B said:

    Good evening.

    Is that the Horse returning ?
    If so, welcome back.
    Has @Leon returned?

    I assume he has been locked in a luxury hotel room for the last week, frantically calling room service for a supply of cattle prods and female iguanas.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
    Levers then and yes they do, you pull them in the vestry and the bells ring in the tower
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Oddschecker is a guide, most bookies have pulled out of offering odds for next FM/SNP leader. Including Hills.

    Is it possible that this is because of the allegations swirling around the reliability of the election? Which would be extraordinary but understandable.

    Or possibly nobody is making bets because Forbes seems so likely to win?
    There’s a YouGov SNP members poll in the field.

    Might be linked to that.

    Perhaps YouGov could let the SNP know who it's members are when they poll them?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,100

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.

    Sunak, if he can force Johnson to be suspended and recalled, should do it. It's very difficult to see how he could win a by-election, which would puncture his mystique and eliminate him as a threat. And if he doesn't contest the by-election, he's out of the Commons and much less important anyway.

    I suppose there is a danger his support could then coalesce around another MP, but the truth is there isn't anyone of Johnson's stature to replace him. They would be Peelites without a Peel with a vengeance. At least the 'slice off the top' of 1922 could boast Balfour, Austen Chamberlain, Birkenhead and Horne.
    If the Privileges Committee suspends Johnson for more than 10 days he would surely do best to resign immediately and seek nomination in an alternative safe Tory seat. He's not coming back as PM this parliament anyway; better to bid for LOTO when Sunak loses the election and hope to beat Labour in 2028/9.
    He's surprised me before, but even though he's not really old I'd be surprised if he could be bothered to work that hard when he's already achieved it once already. Just count his millions and get a job on GreatBoris news.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    latest update from SNP insider who has been extremely accurate up to now!

    Rather dramatic. Starting position is generally to be sceptical of exciting claims as by their nature they do not occur very often, but we shall see. It would all be a bit boring if Humza wins and it all just peters out now.
    I'm always sceptical of these kind of things (sounds all a bit QAnon to me). If they have the juice they should just give us the juice rather than vague allusions to 'crimes'.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.

    Sunak, if he can force Johnson to be suspended and recalled, should do it. It's very difficult to see how he could win a by-election, which would puncture his mystique and eliminate him as a threat. And if he doesn't contest the by-election, he's out of the Commons and much less important anyway.

    I suppose there is a danger his support could then coalesce around another MP, but the truth is there isn't anyone of Johnson's stature to replace him. They would be Peelites without a Peel with a vengeance. At least the 'slice off the top' of 1922 could boast Balfour, Austen Chamberlain, Birkenhead and Horne.
    If the Privileges Committee suspends Johnson for more than 10 days he would surely do best to resign immediately and seek nomination in an alternative safe Tory seat. He's not coming back as PM this parliament anyway; better to bid for LOTO when Sunak loses the election and hope to beat Labour in 2028/9.
    He's surprised me before, but even though he's not really old I'd be surprised if he could be bothered to work that hard when he's already achieved it once already. Just count his millions and get a job on GreatBoris news.
    Work? He wouldn't actually do anything as LOTO, just be the figurehead.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Covid origins: New genetic material from China points to raccoon dogs and other wildlife
    Data collected from market in Wuhan provides ‘strongest evidence’ yet that animals susceptible to Sars-Cov-2 were at traded at the site

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-origins-new-genetic-material-china-points-raccoon-dogs/ (£££)

    "It also shows that China is sitting on more data than it has previously released or shared globally."

    File under "NS,S...."
    Or they’ve had the time to fabricate it
    I think unlikely Chinese authorities are fabricating evidence of reckless, and as it turned out catastrophic, disregard of food safety. Particularly when they have strenuously denied any such thing, despite the panicky closure of those markets following the outbreak.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    ydoethur said:

    UBS have ruined my weekend.

    I may have to roll out the emergency AV thread tomorrow.

    They deserve to be stuffed on taking over Credit Suisse for that alone.

    Couldn't you combine the two? How bank takeovers should be done using an AV system of bidders?
    The situation seems somewhat reminiscent of Lloyds being talked into rescuing HBOS. IANAE but I assume this is another case of the state trying to avoid financing a massive bank bailout by getting a sound institution to rescue a contaminated one instead - and contaminating itself in the process. Are they just going to end up having to spend twice as much to bail out UBS in six months' time?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    "I think that at this price it might just be worth a punt."

    Yep, it is ... a lay.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
    Levers then and yes they do, you pull them in the vestry and the bells ring in the tower
    These the fellas?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellacombe_apparatus

    Functional and efficient, but they're not as good, are they?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bell ends?

    A national shortage of bellringers could leave many churches silent on coronation day.

    With seven weeks to go before Charles III is crowned at Westminster Abbey, a drive to recruit and train 8,000 bellringers has fallen well short.

    Traditionally church bells all over Britain ring out to mark the crowning of a new monarch. It is hoped that all the nation’s 38,000 church bells will be rung, as they were for Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation in 1953.

    However, the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers (CCCBR) has warned that there are only 30,000 trained bellringers in the UK. Its recruitment drive — “Ring for the King” — has attracted about 1,500 inquiries.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bell-ring-for-king-charles-coronation-recruit-call-out-uk-2023-59qzgzrss

    Bell ringing is actually quite a skilful job but it doesn't just have to be manual. At one of our local churches we just have pulleys that do it
    I know this is going to be confusing for you but pulleys don't actually pull anything.
    Levers then and yes they do, you pull them in the vestry and the bells ring in the tower
    So how is that not manual?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Teenagers go in big numbers for something that is only slightly illegal, doesn't land you in prison, highly addictive, oils the wheels of social interaction, is disapproved of the the Guardian and parents, somewhat cool, and is designed to be the alternative to the one that kills you.

    What a shock

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/18/uk-health-expert-raises-alarm-at-epidemic-of-vaping-among-teenagers
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Oddschecker is a guide, most bookies have pulled out of offering odds for next FM/SNP leader. Including Hills.

    Is it possible that this is because of the allegations swirling around the reliability of the election? Which would be extraordinary but understandable.

    Or possibly nobody is making bets because Forbes seems so likely to win?
    That’s not how bookies work, if they thought Forbes was so likely to win that’s how they’d price the market. More likely they haven’t a clue how it’s going to pan out, much like everyone else including me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Season 3 of Picard is absolutely bloody brilliant. The Trek they should have made years ago.

    Arguably, how Star Trek Nemesis should have been made 20 years ago as well.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.

    Sunak, if he can force Johnson to be suspended and recalled, should do it. It's very difficult to see how he could win a by-election, which would puncture his mystique and eliminate him as a threat. And if he doesn't contest the by-election, he's out of the Commons and much less important anyway.

    I suppose there is a danger his support could then coalesce around another MP, but the truth is there isn't anyone of Johnson's stature to replace him. They would be Peelites without a Peel with a vengeance. At least the 'slice off the top' of 1922 could boast Balfour, Austen Chamberlain, Birkenhead and Horne.
    If the Privileges Committee suspends Johnson for more than 10 days he would surely do best to resign immediately and seek nomination in an alternative safe Tory seat. He's not coming back as PM this parliament anyway; better to bid for LOTO when Sunak loses the election and hope to beat Labour in 2028/9.
    And if that's going to happen, best to storm out before the decision is taken ("I refuse to be bullied by a kangaroo court which the Prime Minister, I'm sad to say, feels unable to reign in...") rather than actually have the label "Liar liar pants on fire" slapped on him.

    I'm not sure the long game thing works for BoJo though. If Labour win in 2024, and are at risk of being a one-term government, they will put the next election off until 2029. By then Boris will be 65 and bald as a coot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    On topic, Rishi is about to betray Boris Johnson, this will not go down well with the members.

    Rishi Sunak will give Conservative MPs a free vote on Boris Johnson’s future if the privileges committee finds that he deliberately misled parliament about Downing Street pandemic parties.

    Almost a year after the investigation began, Johnson faces a marathon televised hearing on Wednesday afternoon in which he must convince seven MPs that he was not in contempt of the Commons when he denied claims about lockdown rulebreaking.

    If the committee finds against Johnson, he may be suspended from the Commons. A suspension of more than ten days would automatically trigger a recall petition, allowing Johnson’s constituents to force a by-election.

    The privileges committee’s verdict would have to be approved by a vote of MPs, and Johnson’s allies are already preparing to use the moment to proclaim his innocence.

    Sunak is understood to have decided that he will not whip MPs to protect his predecessor, allowing them instead to make their own decisions.

    He is thought to be wary of repeating Johnson’s own approach in 2021, when he tried to overturn a 30-day suspension imposed on Owen Paterson, a former cabinet minister. “There is no way that we are going to get stuck in the hell that is Owen Paterson again,” a government source said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-privileges-committee-partygate-q7677lk20

    A lot more are probably happy to vote to save Boris than Paterson but there's also still enough who would rebel if forced to do so that it puts Rishi in a bind. A free vote and even saying he personally won't vote against Boris wouldn't mollify the Boris supporters in or out of Parliament, so may as well do it if the Committee recommends it.

    Sunak, if he can force Johnson to be suspended and recalled, should do it. It's very difficult to see how he could win a by-election, which would puncture his mystique and eliminate him as a threat. And if he doesn't contest the by-election, he's out of the Commons and much less important anyway.

    I suppose there is a danger his support could then coalesce around another MP, but the truth is there isn't anyone of Johnson's stature to replace him. They would be Peelites without a Peel with a vengeance. At least the 'slice off the top' of 1922 could boast Balfour, Austen Chamberlain, Birkenhead and Horne.
    If the Privileges Committee suspends Johnson for more than 10 days he would surely do best to resign immediately and seek nomination in an alternative safe Tory seat. He's not coming back as PM this parliament anyway; better to bid for LOTO when Sunak loses the election and hope to beat Labour in 2028/9.
    And if that's going to happen, best to storm out before the decision is taken ("I refuse to be bullied by a kangaroo court which the Prime Minister, I'm sad to say, feels unable to reign in...") rather than actually have the label "Liar liar pants on fire" slapped on him.

    I'm not sure the long game thing works for BoJo though. If Labour win in 2024, and are at risk of being a one-term government, they will put the next election off until 2029. By then Boris will be 65 and bald as a coot.
    ...rein in... But yes, that would be dramatic.
This discussion has been closed.