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SNP leadership – latest betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,724
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    In terms of major population centres the UK is relatively tiny. High speed trains make no sense. It’s like building a high speed walkway from my bed to my laptop, which is 3 metres away

    It’s all over engineered and it was all done for vanity

    If they'd had this attitude in the 19th century we wouldn't have built any railways in Britain.
    No, it just doesn’t make sense

    I’d build Heathrow’s new runway tomorrow. And crossrail 2. But highly expensive ultra fast trains are simply dumb in a small densely populated country like England

    We don’t need them. It’s like trying to make Tube trains go in the air at vast expense. What’s the frigging point?
    The Shinkansen transformed Japanese transportation in an almost equally small and even more densely populated country. Of course they didn’t have the same NIMBY
    issues we do but the engineering challenges were at least as great.

    Shinkansen literally means “new mainline” and it was built entirely to create extra capacity by taking the express trains off the lines used by stoppers and freight. I assume they decided they might as well make them super fast if they were building a whole new line. They are also just incredibly efficient if a little no frills. In they roll, stop for a few seconds, everyone gets on, off they go again and 2 hours later you’re in Osaka.

    I suspect the problem as with all infrastructure is that we should have built HS2, and 3 and 4, decades ago. I’m also sure it’s better to get on with building now than doing it another decade later.

    We could do with a bit of latency in our infrastructure. We always build just as we’re about to burst.
    But this is shite

    Tokyo-Hiroshima (about half the length of Japan) is 800km

    London-Manchester is 262km

    It’s ridiculous. We don’t need ultra high speed trains because quite fast trains get anyone wherever they need perfectly fine. England is small. This is an advantage. Instead the geeky trainspotter twats have tried to foist upon us, at vast expense, a train system which is ideal for vast continental countries. Not England
    I’ve never been sold on the speed of the thing. Manchester or Leeds to London isn’t an intolerable travel time as it is. If they’d been connecting it to Edinburgh and Glasgow, sure, maybe you can argue greater benefit.

    But capacity is the key driver here. There would likely have been cheaper options to boost capacity at pinch points though. Which would have been more sensible.
    Such as?
    Double decker trains?
    That would be even more expensive and slower than building HS2 given our loading gauge.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD

    Any resemblance to Mr D. Davis MP's double-decker leadership publicity is purely accidental.
    And that design could be improved even more by the floors being dropped lower than the top of the wheels, like the Australian two storey trains. So you could almost get 2 floors.
    Don't the Australian double decker trains run on broad gauges, which enables it to dip below (between) the wheels? The UK's gauge of 1,435mm doesn't really allow that.
    It's 4ft 8 1/2 inches, old boy, and that's standard gauge which is by far the most widespread gauge, worldwide.

    Double-decker trains are more common in Europe and are perfectly possible with standard gauge.

    The issue is it requires higher clearances, they can't go massively fast, due to the dynamic envelope, and the dwell time at each station is longer as people need to load/unload from the upper deck too.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Good morning, everyone.

    Never seen so much snowfall. Normally clear passage is now limited by branches bowing beneath the weight. Both side and front gates were laden with it and frozen shut. Couldn't see clearly where the path ended and the garden began.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Good morning, everyone.

    Never seen so much snowfall. Normally clear passage is now limited by branches bowing beneath the weight. Both side and front gates were laden with it and frozen shut. Couldn't see clearly where the path ended and the garden began.

    It's just very wet here near Cambridge. We had some lying snow yesterday, just enough to play in. But no snow this morning.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Jessop, if this melted rapidly, there would be a ton of flooding.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822

    Mr. Jessop, if this melted rapidly, there would be a ton of flooding.

    Then prepare for a ton of flooding as it will all be gone by 5pm tomorrow with rapid warming and rain.

    Tonight looks set to be genuinely nasty though. -5 here which isn’t the coldest I’ve known but isn’t far off.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    In terms of major population centres the UK is relatively tiny. High speed trains make no sense. It’s like building a high speed walkway from my bed to my laptop, which is 3 metres away

    It’s all over engineered and it was all done for vanity

    If they'd had this attitude in the 19th century we wouldn't have built any railways in Britain.
    No, it just doesn’t make sense

    I’d build Heathrow’s new runway tomorrow. And crossrail 2. But highly expensive ultra fast trains are simply dumb in a small densely populated country like England

    We don’t need them. It’s like trying to make Tube trains go in the air at vast expense. What’s the frigging point?
    The Shinkansen transformed Japanese transportation in an almost equally small and even more densely populated country. Of course they didn’t have the same NIMBY
    issues we do but the engineering challenges were at least as great.

    Shinkansen literally means “new mainline” and it was built entirely to create extra capacity by taking the express trains off the lines used by stoppers and freight. I assume they decided they might as well make them super fast if they were building a whole new line. They are also just incredibly efficient if a little no frills. In they roll, stop for a few seconds, everyone gets on, off they go again and 2 hours later you’re in Osaka.

    I suspect the problem as with all infrastructure is that we should have built HS2, and 3 and 4, decades ago. I’m also sure it’s better to get on with building now than doing it another decade later.

    We could do with a bit of latency in our infrastructure. We always build just as we’re about to burst.
    But this is shite

    Tokyo-Hiroshima (about half the length of Japan) is 800km

    London-Manchester is 262km

    It’s ridiculous. We don’t need ultra high speed trains because quite fast trains get anyone wherever they need perfectly fine. England is small. This is an advantage. Instead the geeky trainspotter twats have tried to foist upon us, at vast expense, a train system which is ideal for vast continental countries. Not England
    I’ve never been sold on the speed of the thing. Manchester or Leeds to London isn’t an intolerable travel time as it is. If they’d been connecting it to Edinburgh and Glasgow, sure, maybe you can argue greater benefit.

    But capacity is the key driver here. There would likely have been cheaper options to boost capacity at pinch points though. Which would have been more sensible.
    Such as?
    Double decker trains?
    That would be even more expensive and slower than building HS2 given our loading gauge.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD

    Any resemblance to Mr D. Davis MP's double-decker leadership publicity is purely accidental.
    And that design could be improved even more by the floors being dropped lower than the top of the wheels, like the Australian two storey trains. So you could almost get 2 floors.
    Don't the Australian double decker trains run on broad gauges, which enables it to dip below (between) the wheels? The UK's gauge of 1,435mm doesn't really allow that.
    It's 4ft 8 1/2 inches, old boy, and that's standard gauge which is by far the most widespread gauge, worldwide.

    Double-decker trains are more common in Europe and are perfectly possible with standard gauge.

    The issue is it requires higher clearances, they can't go massively fast, due to the dynamic envelope, and the dwell time at each station is longer as people need to load/unload from the upper deck too.
    The loading gauge is critical. And ours was somewhat restricted by two factors: we were early to railways, when locos and rolling stock were smaller; and a less restrictive loading gauge requires more expensive structures.

    If we had started building railways ten or twenty years later, with none of the 'history' of plateways/tramways, we might have had a less restrictive loading gauge. As it is, it only needed allow the small locos of the 1830s plus chaldrons or small passenger wagons through.

    Also, because of our population density, more structures were often required than our continental friends - and that meant more cost for a larger loading gauge.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2023
    Interesting “Merryn talks money” podcast episode with Niall Ferguson on: what if we’re in a new Cold War? And what does that mean for finance/economics;

    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/merryn-talks-money/id1654809850
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Doethur, marvellous. I fully expect the two main roads into Leeds to be cut off, as they were during the 2007 floods.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822

    Mr. Doethur, marvellous. I fully expect the two main roads into Leeds to be cut off, as they were during the 2007 floods.

    M62 appears to be shut due to snow. Possibly shut due to floods tomorrow.

    Not great.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    edited March 2023

    Mr. Doethur, marvellous. I fully expect the two main roads into Leeds to be cut off, as they were during the 2007 floods.

    On checking very carefully in your area it might be thawed by around noon on Sunday, rather than tomorrow. However, since more snow is forecast for tomorrow as well…
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    GDP up 0.3% in January.
    Higher than 0.1% predicted.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Great. Power just went out. Came back, as you may've guessed, but now the central heating won't come on despite the boiler and thermostat box thing seeming to be fine...
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2023

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    The subsequent tweet is fascinating.

    Looks like we’ve been importing a shit ton of gold in the last seven months.

    Or is that exporting?

    I don’t recall reading anything in the FT/Bloomberg about this.

    Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    And another power cut. Boiler still not working. Hmm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311

    WillG said:

    Off topic, but important: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell suffered a concussion from a fall. A concussion can be serious at any age, but is especially worrisome in someone his age, 81.

    'Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is being treated for a concussion after falling Wednesday evening and is expected to remain hospitalized “for a few days,” a spokesperson announced Thursday afternoon.

    “The Leader is grateful to the medical professionals for their care and to his colleagues for their warm wishes,” spokesman David Popp said. McConnell is expected to remain in the hospital for observation and treatment, he added.'
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/09/mitch-mcconnell-fall-hospitalized/

    Recently, I have been speculating that McConnell was not planing to run for re-election in 2028. But I have seen no evidence for, or against, that theory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_McConnell

    (Sadly, we can expect conspiracy theorists to speculate that he was pushed -- and he is hated by Trumpistas, and by pro-abortion fanatics.)

    Who are the "pro-abortion fanatics"? I am aware of pro-choice individuals, but nobody campaigning for forced abortions. There are some campaigning - and legislating - for forced births.
    Without being a mind-reader, my guess is that Jim is referring to activists & politicos who make pro-choice on abortion an absolute litmus test of ideological purity, and political orthodoxy esp. of course for Democrats.
    Possibly.
    But this was about those who might (semi) plausibly resort to violence. Including them in that is to resort to the favoured Republican ‘both sides’ rhetorical stance.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,957
    ping said:

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    The subsequent tweet is fascinating.

    Looks like we’ve been importing a shit ton of gold in the last seven months.

    Or is that exporting?

    I don’t recall reading anything in the FT/Bloomberg about this.

    Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
    Interesting that they apportion some of the growth to private healthcare.

    This is the thing: health spending, whether private or public, just has to go up as a %age of GDP.

    The private sector is picking up that demand, but I'd rather it was it was in the public sector so we don't get even more health inequalities.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    ping said:

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    The subsequent tweet is fascinating.

    Looks like we’ve been importing a shit ton of gold in the last seven months.

    Or is that exporting?

    I don’t recall reading anything in the FT/Bloomberg about this.

    Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
    Hmm. I suspect this is actually just a reflection of the gold/precious metal price, rather than physical gold etc being shipped into/out of the country.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Ooh, you guys all waking up to snow this morning? My elderly parents are happy to be out here somewhere hotter!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, you guys all waking up to snow this morning? My elderly parents are happy to be out here somewhere hotter!

    Genuine blizzard outside my windows at the moment.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2023
    Now 6th anniversary:

    Today is the 5th anniversary of the 'BBC Dad' event and probably the last time I will mark this date here on Twitter

    My wife and I remain deeply grateful for all the kindness about our kids over the years. Thank you


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY

    https://twitter.com/Robert_E_Kelly/status/1501668798507921409?s=20
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, you guys all waking up to snow this morning? My elderly parents are happy to be out here somewhere hotter!

    Genuine blizzard outside my windows at the moment.
    We had heavy snow around 6AM, it has eased off now.

    It should start melting away shortly.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    ping said:

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    The subsequent tweet is fascinating.

    Looks like we’ve been importing a shit ton of gold in the last seven months.

    Or is that exporting?

    I don’t recall reading anything in the FT/Bloomberg about this.

    Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
    Saw something on financial twitter saying that a few national govts had been buying gold. Not just the UK.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,176

    Good morning, everyone.

    Never seen so much snowfall. Normally clear passage is now limited by branches bowing beneath the weight. Both side and front gates were laden with it and frozen shut. Couldn't see clearly where the path ended and the garden began.

    Just a bit drizzly here, and not even really cold - 5 C currently. Although windy conditions are forecast for this morning when it will probably feel colder.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,981
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, you guys all waking up to snow this morning? My elderly parents are happy to be out here somewhere hotter!

    What is this "snow" of which you speak?

    Windy aaf in south Devon though.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Jessop, if this melted rapidly, there would be a ton of flooding.

    Then prepare for a ton of flooding as it will all be gone by 5pm tomorrow with rapid warming and rain.

    Tonight looks set to be genuinely nasty though. -5 here which isn’t the coldest I’ve known but isn’t far off.
    -3 round here.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939

    Sean_F said:

    WillG said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.

    Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.


    Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis?

    https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1

    We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.

    People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
    I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
    I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.

    A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
    The first designs for wind turbines to generate electricity were when? Late 19th century, early 20th century? A lot of early cars were electric-powered.

    It's possible to imagine an early transition away from fossil fuels, and to more sustainable ways of generating and using energy, if research and investment had been directed taking account of environmental damage, and not simply purely on the grounds of short-term profit.

    You could have had the industrial revolution, but managed to avoid most of the 20th century burning of fossil fuels.
    Surely you don't believe this garbage?
    It's not garbage.

    Human ingenuity and technological development is capable of amazing things, but to a great extent it reacts to incentives and necessity.

    There is not only one path of technological development that was possible. Different directions could have been taken.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Eabhal said:

    ping said:

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    The subsequent tweet is fascinating.

    Looks like we’ve been importing a shit ton of gold in the last seven months.

    Or is that exporting?

    I don’t recall reading anything in the FT/Bloomberg about this.

    Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
    Interesting that they apportion some of the growth to private healthcare.

    This is the thing: health spending, whether private or public, just has to go up as a %age of GDP.

    The private sector is picking up that demand, but I'd rather it was it was in the public sector so we don't get even more health inequalities.
    After my 3rd NHS cancellation I’m going private next month - I’m in the fortunate position of being able to - and it’s one fewer for the NHS to have to do.

    On GDP Stats one of the things that emerged during COVID was how different countries measure health care differently. In Spain, (IIRC) they measure inputs - salaries - so during the pandemic their health service boomed and productivity soared all contributing to GDP. In the U.K. on the other hand we measure outputs - operations and so on - which fell substantially - dragging down GDP. As the NHS catches up on the operations backlog that will contribute to GDP.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Pretty grim here in Nam as well. They’re showing me how to make lunch



  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,476

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    Some strange effects driving that, though.

    From the tweet after that one, the main factors driving it are improved school attendance and the return of domestic football after the World Cup.

    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1634087392452784128

    All counts, of course... But strange.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    In terms of major population centres the UK is relatively tiny. High speed trains make no sense. It’s like building a high speed walkway from my bed to my laptop, which is 3 metres away

    It’s all over engineered and it was all done for vanity

    If they'd had this attitude in the 19th century we wouldn't have built any railways in Britain.
    No, it just doesn’t make sense

    I’d build Heathrow’s new runway tomorrow. And crossrail 2. But highly expensive ultra fast trains are simply dumb in a small densely populated country like England

    We don’t need them. It’s like trying to make Tube trains go in the air at vast expense. What’s the frigging point?
    The Shinkansen transformed Japanese transportation in an almost equally small and even more densely populated country. Of course they didn’t have the same NIMBY
    issues we do but the engineering challenges were at least as great.

    Shinkansen literally means “new mainline” and it was built entirely to create extra capacity by taking the express trains off the lines used by stoppers and freight. I assume they decided they might as well make them super fast if they were building a whole new line. They are also just incredibly efficient if a little no frills. In they roll, stop for a few seconds, everyone gets on, off they go again and 2 hours later you’re in Osaka.

    I suspect the problem as with all infrastructure is that we should have built HS2, and 3 and 4, decades ago. I’m also sure it’s better to get on with building now than doing it another decade later.

    We could do with a bit of latency in our infrastructure. We always build just as we’re about to burst.
    But this is shite

    Tokyo-Hiroshima (about half the length of Japan) is 800km

    London-Manchester is 262km

    It’s ridiculous. We don’t need ultra high speed trains because quite fast trains get anyone wherever they need perfectly fine. England is small. This is an advantage. Instead the geeky trainspotter twats have tried to foist upon us, at vast expense, a train system which is ideal for vast continental countries. Not England
    I’ve never been sold on the speed of the thing. Manchester or Leeds to London isn’t an intolerable travel time as it is. If they’d been connecting it to Edinburgh and Glasgow, sure, maybe you can argue greater benefit.

    But capacity is the key driver here. There would likely have been cheaper options to boost capacity at pinch points though. Which would have been more sensible.
    Such as?
    Double decker trains?
    That would be even more expensive and slower than building HS2 given our loading gauge.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD

    Any resemblance to Mr D. Davis MP's double-decker leadership publicity is purely accidental.
    And that design could be improved even more by the floors being dropped lower than the top of the wheels, like the Australian two storey trains. So you could almost get 2 floors.
    Don't the Australian double decker trains run on broad gauges, which enables it to dip below (between) the wheels? The UK's gauge of 1,435mm doesn't really allow that.
    It's 4ft 8 1/2 inches, old boy, and that's standard gauge which is by far the most widespread gauge, worldwide.

    Double-decker trains are more common in Europe and are perfectly possible with standard gauge.

    The issue is it requires higher clearances, they can't go massively fast, due to the dynamic envelope, and the dwell time at each station is longer as people need to load/unload from the upper deck too.
    Double-decker platforms would help with the dwell time, but requires even more rebuilding of existing infrastructure.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    dixiedean said:

    GDP up 0.3% in January.
    Higher than 0.1% predicted.

    What happened to the recession and the economic meltdown that was supposed to be happening ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311

    Sean_F said:

    WillG said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.

    Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.


    Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis?

    https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1

    We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.

    People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
    I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
    I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.

    A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
    The first designs for wind turbines to generate electricity were when? Late 19th century, early 20th century? A lot of early cars were electric-powered.

    It's possible to imagine an early transition away from fossil fuels, and to more sustainable ways of generating and using energy, if research and investment had been directed taking account of environmental damage, and not simply purely on the grounds of short-term profit.

    You could have had the industrial revolution, but managed to avoid most of the 20th century burning of fossil fuels.
    Surely you don't believe this garbage?
    It's not garbage.

    Human ingenuity and technological development is capable of amazing things, but to a great extent it reacts to incentives and necessity.

    There is not only one path of technological development that was possible. Different directions could have been taken.
    We might realistically have made a major change in direction in the 1970s, when both the knowledge about global warming and the growing economic practicality of developing renewable technologies could have justified making the huge investments necessary,
    That might have avoided some of the consequences which are now already inevitable.
    It would have required broad societal consensus, though.

    Any earlier than that is economically implausible, I think.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, you guys all waking up to snow this morning? My elderly parents are happy to be out here somewhere hotter!

    What is this "snow" of which you speak?

    Windy aaf in south Devon though.
    For me, “snow” is the stuff in that shopping mall ski slope. ⛷️
    https://www.skidxb.com/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    What does equity mean in this context? I don't understand.
    equality

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Trouble oop North

    M62 traffic: Heavy snow causes traffic chaos as drivers move just 15 miles in six hours

    There are delays of around three hours on the M62 in Yorkshire due to heavy snow – although some drivers have reported being stuck for around six hours.


    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/m62-traffic-heavy-snow-causes-traffic-chaos-as-drivers-move-just-15-miles-in-six-hours-4058470
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Scott_xP said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    What does equity mean in this context? I don't understand.
    equality

    More specifically, equality of outcome.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Scott_xP said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    What does equity mean in this context? I don't understand.
    equality

    No it doesn’t
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939

    Striking illustration of the importance of services to the economy:

    GDP grew 0.3% in January:

    ▪️ services grew 0.5%
    ▪️ manufacturing fell 0.4%
    ▪️ construction fell 1.7%


    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1634086914453131268

    Some strange effects driving that, though.

    From the tweet after that one, the main factors driving it are improved school attendance and the return of domestic football after the World Cup.

    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1634087392452784128

    All counts, of course... But strange.
    They don't seem to be the sorts of things that could happen again in February to keep growth going, but it's often the case that there are odd one-off effects in one direction or the other that you can point to. Perhaps February will have seen particularly strong sales of domestic vegetables that will boost the GDP figures?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    What does equity mean in this context? I don't understand.
    equality

    More specifically, equality of outcome.
    Precisely. A significantly different thing
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Sean_F said:

    WillG said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.

    Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.


    Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis?

    https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1

    We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.

    People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
    I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
    I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.

    A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
    The first designs for wind turbines to generate electricity were when? Late 19th century, early 20th century? A lot of early cars were electric-powered.

    It's possible to imagine an early transition away from fossil fuels, and to more sustainable ways of generating and using energy, if research and investment had been directed taking account of environmental damage, and not simply purely on the grounds of short-term profit.

    You could have had the industrial revolution, but managed to avoid most of the 20th century burning of fossil fuels.
    Surely you don't believe this garbage?
    It's not garbage.

    Human ingenuity and technological development is capable of amazing things, but to a great extent it reacts to incentives and necessity.

    There is not only one path of technological development that was possible. Different directions could have been taken.
    It could, but it's very unlikely. Yes, electric vehicles were common in the late 1800s and early 1900s - where 'common' means uncommon, but common in relation to ICE cars.

    But the problem is that the electric tech at the time just could not compete with ICE, once ICE development really got going. It's hard for electric cars to compete nowadays, with massive amounts of electronics and very (relatively) efficient motors.

    Then there's power generation. Yes, the first electrical appliances (e.g. Armstrong's gaff) were hydro powered. But again, these were small-scale.

    The truth is we required massive amounts of energy to develop our tech to the state where we can now develop competitive widespread green energy. In the world you envision, we might have very sparse power capabilities, and we would be stuck at late 1800s tech level, with a lucky few having electricity.

    And meanwhile, factories will be belching out smoke, steam trains would be blackening the sky, gas streetlights, and all the advantages electricity gives us would be for naught.

    Basically; I think we needed widespread, cheap 'dirty' power to build the tech we need to move into a greener future.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    The IQ level of PB is really low in the mornings. I don’t normally notice it because I sleep until about 10am. But wow. It’s like kindergarten time
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
  • Trouble oop North

    M62 traffic: Heavy snow causes traffic chaos as drivers move just 15 miles in six hours

    There are delays of around three hours on the M62 in Yorkshire due to heavy snow – although some drivers have reported being stuck for around six hours.


    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/m62-traffic-heavy-snow-causes-traffic-chaos-as-drivers-move-just-15-miles-in-six-hours-4058470

    Don't they have ploughs? I drove the Aberdeen bypass on Tuesday morning and passed half a dozen ploughs which were clearing lane 2 on both carriageways.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    You are so obsessed that you become entirely incapable of reading one simple sentence.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Off to Bala later today, where it’s supposedly going to drop as low as -8°, though I’m not sure I believe it - meteorologists share the same fetish for pronouncing grim outlooks that some medical professionals do.

    It’s a poker weekend (wish me luck, I’ll need it) supposedly interspersed with hiking, but I’ve about as much interest in scaling Cader Idris in this weather as Boris has in constituency casework. Beer, book and log fire seems more appealing.
  • So Raab is safe as his mate, rule breaking Rishi will save him, it is the Priti Patel bullying stuff all over again.

    Rishi Sunak will determine whether Dominic Raab bullied officials because the formal investigation into his conduct will not express an opinion about his behaviour, The Times has been told.

    Adam Tolley KC was appointed by the prime minister in November to investigate formal complaints made by civil servants about the justice secretary’s behaviour.

    Alleged victims of Raab, the deputy prime minister, have been told that Tolley will only seek to establish the facts surrounding allegations of bullying in three government departments. He will not give a “subjective” opinion on whether the events that he outlines in his report, which is expected to be published later this month, amount to bullying.

    A Whitehall source said that Sunak would be the “arbiter” of whether the actions of Raab, one of his closest allies, constitute bullying.

    Raab is said to be facing at least 24 complaints from civil servants who have worked with him across three government departments.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-raab-bullying-inquiry-will-defer-to-rishi-sunak-for-final-verdict-6gttpp78l
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited March 2023
    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    You are so obsessed that you become entirely incapable of reading one simple sentence.
    And once again, for our slow learning German friend


  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Sean_F said:

    WillG said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.

    Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.


    Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis?

    https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1

    We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.

    People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
    I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
    I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.

    A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
    The first designs for wind turbines to generate electricity were when? Late 19th century, early 20th century? A lot of early cars were electric-powered.

    It's possible to imagine an early transition away from fossil fuels, and to more sustainable ways of generating and using energy, if research and investment had been directed taking account of environmental damage, and not simply purely on the grounds of short-term profit.

    You could have had the industrial revolution, but managed to avoid most of the 20th century burning of fossil fuels.
    Surely you don't believe this garbage?
    It's not garbage.

    Human ingenuity and technological development is capable of amazing things, but to a great extent it reacts to incentives and necessity.

    There is not only one path of technological development that was possible. Different directions could have been taken.
    It could, but it's very unlikely. Yes, electric vehicles were common in the late 1800s and early 1900s - where 'common' means uncommon, but common in relation to ICE cars.

    But the problem is that the electric tech at the time just could not compete with ICE, once ICE development really got going. It's hard for electric cars to compete nowadays, with massive amounts of electronics and very (relatively) efficient motors.

    Then there's power generation. Yes, the first electrical appliances (e.g. Armstrong's gaff) were hydro powered. But again, these were small-scale.

    The truth is we required massive amounts of energy to develop our tech to the state where we can now develop competitive widespread green energy. In the world you envision, we might have very sparse power capabilities, and we would be stuck at late 1800s tech level, with a lucky few having electricity.

    And meanwhile, factories will be belching out smoke, steam trains would be blackening the sky, gas streetlights, and all the advantages electricity gives us would be for naught.

    Basically; I think we needed widespread, cheap 'dirty' power to build the tech we need to move into a greener future.
    I’m a Green, and I agree. It just should have started a long time ago. Also why I believe in an interventionist state.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    edited March 2023
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted, which seems to have got you both confused and excited. Use your brain.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    You have just literally posted a picture of what William Glenn posted. Maybe you are the moron here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Ghedebrav said:

    Off to Bala later today, where it’s supposedly going to drop as low as -8°, though I’m not sure I believe it - meteorologists share the same fetish for pronouncing grim outlooks that some medical professionals do.

    It’s a poker weekend (wish me luck, I’ll need it) supposedly interspersed with hiking, but I’ve about as much interest in scaling Cader Idris in this weather as Boris has in constituency casework. Beer, book and log fire seems more appealing.

    Bala must be quite spectacular in this weather. The lake and the hills should be stunning.

    But I wouldn't advise Cadair, particularly not the steep trails up from Llyn Cae.
  • A City lawyer told a teenage female assistant that he wanted to have sex with her in front of their colleagues and sent her links to pornography including nude images of a Love Island star, a tribunal was told.

    Oliver Bretherton, who had a senior position at an Anglo-Canadian firm, is also accused of asking the 18-year-old to masturbate in front of him and of having sent her a video of himself performing a solo sex act.

    Bretherton, 41, admitted sending the woman pornography, including leaked images “relating to” Megan Barton-Hanson, who appeared on ITV’s Love Island in 2018, but denied doing so on many occasions.

    Lawyers for the profession’s regulator have told the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal that Bretherton, a married banking and finance specialist, recruited the woman about five years ago, just after she had finished her A-levels.

    Nimi Bruce, who appeared for the Solicitors Regulation Authority, told the tribunal that Bretherton said to the woman that he wanted to “f*** her and he would do it in the office and he didn’t care if there was a glass wall”, according to a report of the hearing in The Law Society Gazette.

    At the time, Bretherton was 36 and a lawyer at Gowling WLG, a large international practice based in the City and in Ottawa.

    Prosecuting lawyers added that Bretherton monitored the amount of time the woman spent in the lavatory and once threw ping-pong balls down her dress. He is alleged to have conducted a campaign of harassment against the woman, who has been referred to only as Person A, for more than a year.

    Allegations of harassment have also been made by two other women against the lawyer.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/city-lawyer-sent-nude-photos-of-love-island-star-to-18-year-old-assistant-nj33rqmkt
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    eek said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
    There's sum useless bastards involved.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    You are so obsessed that you become entirely incapable of reading one simple sentence.
    And once again, for our slow learning German friend


    Maybe calm down and slowly read what was actually posted.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,354
    edited March 2023

    Trouble oop North

    M62 traffic: Heavy snow causes traffic chaos as drivers move just 15 miles in six hours

    There are delays of around three hours on the M62 in Yorkshire due to heavy snow – although some drivers have reported being stuck for around six hours.


    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/m62-traffic-heavy-snow-causes-traffic-chaos-as-drivers-move-just-15-miles-in-six-hours-4058470

    I thought at 10pm we might get away with it, as the road was just a bit slushy, but we got the 8 inches of snow overnight. The secondary went back online yesterday morning, the primary had lunchtime collection after a short burst of snow dumped a couple of inches that then melted off the tarmac in the afternoon.

    I absolutely wouldn't have chanced M62 Windy Hill though given the forecast. I've done that when they put about 3 dozen gritters out and they work in formations of 3 or 4 and the cars follow them. You know at the point those gritters lose its already really bad and you're not going to going anywhere in a hurry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Dearie me. As my old mum would say
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822

    A City lawyer told a teenage female assistant that he wanted to have sex with her in front of their colleagues and sent her links to pornography including nude images of a Love Island star, a tribunal was told.

    Oliver Bretherton, who had a senior position at an Anglo-Canadian firm, is also accused of asking the 18-year-old to masturbate in front of him and of having sent her a video of himself performing a solo sex act.

    Bretherton, 41, admitted sending the woman pornography, including leaked images “relating to” Megan Barton-Hanson, who appeared on ITV’s Love Island in 2018, but denied doing so on many occasions.

    Lawyers for the profession’s regulator have told the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal that Bretherton, a married banking and finance specialist, recruited the woman about five years ago, just after she had finished her A-levels.

    Nimi Bruce, who appeared for the Solicitors Regulation Authority, told the tribunal that Bretherton said to the woman that he wanted to “f*** her and he would do it in the office and he didn’t care if there was a glass wall”, according to a report of the hearing in The Law Society Gazette.

    At the time, Bretherton was 36 and a lawyer at Gowling WLG, a large international practice based in the City and in Ottawa.

    Prosecuting lawyers added that Bretherton monitored the amount of time the woman spent in the lavatory and once threw ping-pong balls down her dress. He is alleged to have conducted a campaign of harassment against the woman, who has been referred to only as Person A, for more than a year.

    Allegations of harassment have also been made by two other women against the lawyer.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/city-lawyer-sent-nude-photos-of-love-island-star-to-18-year-old-assistant-nj33rqmkt

    He'll probably be made chief of OFSTED later this year. He's got ideas on safeguarding that match theirs, anyway.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    The IQ level of PB is really low in the mornings. I don’t normally notice it because I sleep until about 10am. But wow. It’s like kindergarten time

    Definitely lowers the average IQ when you show up. I think even you would admit that your posts don't add to the maturity of the discussion.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
  • ydoethur said:

    A City lawyer told a teenage female assistant that he wanted to have sex with her in front of their colleagues and sent her links to pornography including nude images of a Love Island star, a tribunal was told.

    Oliver Bretherton, who had a senior position at an Anglo-Canadian firm, is also accused of asking the 18-year-old to masturbate in front of him and of having sent her a video of himself performing a solo sex act.

    Bretherton, 41, admitted sending the woman pornography, including leaked images “relating to” Megan Barton-Hanson, who appeared on ITV’s Love Island in 2018, but denied doing so on many occasions.

    Lawyers for the profession’s regulator have told the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal that Bretherton, a married banking and finance specialist, recruited the woman about five years ago, just after she had finished her A-levels.

    Nimi Bruce, who appeared for the Solicitors Regulation Authority, told the tribunal that Bretherton said to the woman that he wanted to “f*** her and he would do it in the office and he didn’t care if there was a glass wall”, according to a report of the hearing in The Law Society Gazette.

    At the time, Bretherton was 36 and a lawyer at Gowling WLG, a large international practice based in the City and in Ottawa.

    Prosecuting lawyers added that Bretherton monitored the amount of time the woman spent in the lavatory and once threw ping-pong balls down her dress. He is alleged to have conducted a campaign of harassment against the woman, who has been referred to only as Person A, for more than a year.

    Allegations of harassment have also been made by two other women against the lawyer.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/city-lawyer-sent-nude-photos-of-love-island-star-to-18-year-old-assistant-nj33rqmkt

    He'll probably be made chief of OFSTED later this year. He's got ideas on safeguarding that match theirs, anyway.
    The country needs more lawyers in charge, especially ones who have worked for banks.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Off to Bala later today, where it’s supposedly going to drop as low as -8°, though I’m not sure I believe it - meteorologists share the same fetish for pronouncing grim outlooks that some medical professionals do.

    It’s a poker weekend (wish me luck, I’ll need it) supposedly interspersed with hiking, but I’ve about as much interest in scaling Cader Idris in this weather as Boris has in constituency casework. Beer, book and log fire seems more appealing.

    Bala must be quite spectacular in this weather. The lake and the hills should be stunning.

    But I wouldn't advise Cadair, particularly not the steep trails up from Llyn Cae.
    I want to walk round the lake, at least. One of my favourite novels, Austerlitz, is set in part around Bala.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
    There's sum useless bastards involved.
    Incompetence on a math scale.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Trouble oop North

    M62 traffic: Heavy snow causes traffic chaos as drivers move just 15 miles in six hours

    There are delays of around three hours on the M62 in Yorkshire due to heavy snow – although some drivers have reported being stuck for around six hours.


    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/m62-traffic-heavy-snow-causes-traffic-chaos-as-drivers-move-just-15-miles-in-six-hours-4058470

    I thought at 10pm we might get away with it, as the road was just a bit slushy, but we got the 8 inches of snow overnight. The secondary went back online yesterday morning, the primary had lunchtime collection after a short burst of snow dumped a couple of inches that then melted off the tarmac in the afternoon.

    I absolutely wouldn't have chanced M62 Windy Hill though given the forecast. I've done that when they put about 3 dozen gritters out and they work in formations of 3 or 4 and the cars follow them. You know at the point those gritters lose its already really bad and you're not going to going anywhere in a hurry.
    I could see Rakewood Viaduct out of my bedroom window growing up, and much closer by the A58 which was the only cross-pennine route that would stay open* when things got really bad.

    *Littleborough - Todmorden
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This petition has added around 20,000 signatures in the last week:

    Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex



    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=623243
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,981
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
    There's sum useless bastards involved.
    When it comes to numbers used to support huge public sector civil engineering projects, the Treasury's default position should be to point and laugh.

    "Double all your costs and then come back. So we can laugh at you some more. Now fuck off...."
  • Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
    Leon's not very bright.

    Remember when he dribbled about Russia launching nukes last autumn.

    Or spammed PB for months about how what.three.words would change the world, and only thick PBers couldn't see its potential.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,476
    Leon said:

    The IQ level of PB is really low in the mornings. I don’t normally notice it because I sleep until about 10am. But wow. It’s like kindergarten time

    Most mornings combine the intelligence of the Institute of Advanced Study and the wit of the Algonquin Round Table.

    But something's different today. Must be the weather.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    Here's a new term you might expect to hear more of, brought to you by Ireland's housing crisis.

    "The working homeless."

    I don't think things are quite that bad in Britain yet, or maybe I've missed reporting of it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
    There's sum useless bastards involved.
    Incompetence on a math scale.
    Their actions are a sin we need reform of the Civil Service, cos they are clueless.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,476
    ydoethur said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
    There's sum useless bastards involved.
    Incompetence on a math scale.
    Their actions are a sin we need reform of the Civil Service, cos they are clueless.
    You know how to tan someone's hide with words, that's for sure.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,236
    The link below in the cyclist tragedy is interesting - scroll down to the comments section. Looks like there is an aspect of the council covering its arse in this and maybe misleading the judge.

    https://road.cc/content/news/auriol-grey-seeks-leave-appeal-vs-manslaughter-sentence-299825
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208

    Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
    Leon's not very bright.

    Remember when he dribbled about Russia launching nukes last autumn.

    Or spammed PB for months about how what.three.words would change the world, and only thick PBers couldn't see its potential.
    It's strange in this case though, because he is in fact just agreeing with Nigelb that poor areas of cities tend to have the worst air pollution so not sure why Leon is swearing at Nigelb. It seems to be just because someone somewhere 4 steps removed implied that 'whites' were causing harm to 'non-whites', which made him fly into a rage.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Off to Bala later today, where it’s supposedly going to drop as low as -8°, though I’m not sure I believe it - meteorologists share the same fetish for pronouncing grim outlooks that some medical professionals do.

    It’s a poker weekend (wish me luck, I’ll need it) supposedly interspersed with hiking, but I’ve about as much interest in scaling Cader Idris in this weather as Boris has in constituency casework. Beer, book and log fire seems more appealing.

    Bala must be quite spectacular in this weather. The lake and the hills should be stunning.

    But I wouldn't advise Cadair, particularly not the steep trails up from Llyn Cae.
    I want to walk round the lake, at least. One of my favourite novels, Austerlitz, is set in part around Bala.
    I cycled round it three years ago, while everywhere was fairly quiet due to semi-lockdown. Wouldn't care to do it under normal conditions because there's one stretch you have to use the main road and it's narrow, twisty and traffic still goes quite fast. But it was quite an experience.

    If they only built a three mile off road track east from Llanuwchllyn to connect up with the existing cycle lane that would be one of the great rides of Wales, fit to compare with the Mawddach trail, the Porthmadog to Harlech trail and the Lon Las Eifion.

    It's still decent as it is, you just can't quite do a circuit which is slightly annoying.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807

    Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
    Leon's not very bright.

    Remember when he dribbled about Russia launching nukes last autumn.

    Or spammed PB for months about how what.three.words would change the world, and only thick PBers couldn't see its potential.
    Good point. I must remember to make allowances for dim people - it's not their fault and there's nothing they can do about it, after all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822

    ydoethur said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Re HS2 I build megaprojects for a living. Typically $5-20 Billion. They are always late and overbudget but get built and meet their objectives. The biggest control needed is 'management of change'. Rule 1 is dont change unless absolutely neccesary.

    The problem with HS2 was unclear objectives (you dont need high speed to increase capacity) - and changes driven by external political interference (building unneccesary tunnels to appease local conservative associations).

    The limited extra cost of the additional speed made it a worthwhile addition but the problem was that it's been sold on the speed and journey times not on the additional capacity it provides...

    And that isn't help by the fact the calculations the Treasury use to justify investment are beyond hopeless.
    There's sum useless bastards involved.
    Incompetence on a math scale.
    Their actions are a sin we need reform of the Civil Service, cos they are clueless.
    You know how to tan someone's hide with words, that's for sure.
    Talking about the Civil Service after their disgraceful behaviour in lockdown trig-gers me.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,923

    slade said:

    Reports that the LDs have won the Edinburgh seat.

    They should do - a large LD lead in the last election, with the SNP getting the second seat because the Scots have PR. The SNP councillor died, so there's a single seat up, which the LibDems should win - a quirk of how PR interacts with by-elections, since when they're both up for election the SNP will probably get it back.
    Not if you base your hope on the actual figures, Mr Palmer.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    Morning all! No snow here in North Essex; it’s just light rain. Granddaughter in Leeds reports heavy snow. They live on the hillside so the cars are unusable, so both working from home.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,518
    edited March 2023
    Interestingly the (north-)east end of Newcastle is wealthier than the west end. At least these days.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Mr. Jessop, if this melted rapidly, there would be a ton of flooding.

    Remember the 10:1 ratio between snow and water. It will not produce nearly as much water as you think.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Morning all! No snow here in North Essex; it’s just light rain. Granddaughter in Leeds reports heavy snow. They live on the hillside so the cars are unusable, so both working from home.

    It's snowing heavily here now; settling on the grass, but not on the roads.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited March 2023
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
    Leon's not very bright.

    Remember when he dribbled about Russia launching nukes last autumn.

    Or spammed PB for months about how what.three.words would change the world, and only thick PBers couldn't see its potential.
    It's strange in this case though, because he is in fact just agreeing with Nigelb that poor areas of cities tend to have the worst air pollution so not sure why Leon is swearing at Nigelb. It seems to be just because someone somewhere 4 steps removed implied that 'whites' were causing harm to 'non-whites', which made him fly into a rage.
    Tbh my “rage status” is low



    Tho if they don’t renew my Saigon Special beer I might get a bit ORNERY
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,691
    Snowing heavily on the Lincolnshire edge again this morning. I had thought we were done with it last night as it was hammering down with rain but back to freezing conditions and lots of snow again now.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    edited March 2023
    .

    So Raab is safe as his mate, rule breaking Rishi will save him, it is the Priti Patel bullying stuff all over again.

    Rishi Sunak will determine whether Dominic Raab bullied officials because the formal investigation into his conduct will not express an opinion about his behaviour, The Times has been told.

    Adam Tolley KC was appointed by the prime minister in November to investigate formal complaints made by civil servants about the justice secretary’s behaviour.

    Alleged victims of Raab, the deputy prime minister, have been told that Tolley will only seek to establish the facts surrounding allegations of bullying in three government departments. He will not give a “subjective” opinion on whether the events that he outlines in his report, which is expected to be published later this month, amount to bullying.

    A Whitehall source said that Sunak would be the “arbiter” of whether the actions of Raab, one of his closest allies, constitute bullying.

    Raab is said to be facing at least 24 complaints from civil servants who have worked with him across three government departments.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-raab-bullying-inquiry-will-defer-to-rishi-sunak-for-final-verdict-6gttpp78l

    Utterly ludicrous . Wtf was the point of the enquiry when it’s left to Sunak to decide the outcome.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    .
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
    I believe the obsession is American in origin. Hence the initiating comment from @williamglenn

    Americans have turned a known class issue - poor people living in the more polluted areas of cities (usually in the east in the northern hemisphere) into an issue of race. Yet again

    The phenomenon of poorer eastern neighbourhoods goes back centuries and is ubiquitous


    That is now something of a commonplace, as SS also noted.

    The point of the article I linked was how poor environmental regulation continues to place a disproportionate health burden deriving from new economic development on the economically disadvantaged areas.
    SS referred to “whatever pollution us happening in the city”, which makes it sound a passive process, which isn’t entirely true.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    nico679 said:

    .

    So Raab is safe as his mate, rule breaking Rishi will save him, it is the Priti Patel bullying stuff all over again.

    Rishi Sunak will determine whether Dominic Raab bullied officials because the formal investigation into his conduct will not express an opinion about his behaviour, The Times has been told.

    Adam Tolley KC was appointed by the prime minister in November to investigate formal complaints made by civil servants about the justice secretary’s behaviour.

    Alleged victims of Raab, the deputy prime minister, have been told that Tolley will only seek to establish the facts surrounding allegations of bullying in three government departments. He will not give a “subjective” opinion on whether the events that he outlines in his report, which is expected to be published later this month, amount to bullying.

    A Whitehall source said that Sunak would be the “arbiter” of whether the actions of Raab, one of his closest allies, constitute bullying.

    Raab is said to be facing at least 24 complaints from civil servants who have worked with him across three government departments.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-raab-bullying-inquiry-will-defer-to-rishi-sunak-for-final-verdict-6gttpp78l

    Utterly ludicrous . Wtf was the point of the enquiry when it’s left to Sunak to decide the outcome.
    I considered suggesting it was mere delaying tactics but that may be mistaking lethargy for strategy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    Gas prices up 10% this morning already.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Snowing heavily on the Lincolnshire edge again this morning. I had thought we were done with it last night as it was hammering down with rain but back to freezing conditions and lots of snow again now.

    On a train from Edinburgh heading north. Not even a frost on the fields around here so far (just south of the bridge). It seems to have been exceptionally patchy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Leon said:

    Dearie me. As my old mum would say

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest racial justice battleground:

    image

    https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1633840062160072707

    Has been a battleground for some time, as fact that poor parts of town in US are generally down-wind of whatever pollution is happening in the city or metro area. Thus usually on the east side, as most weather comes from the west in North America. PLUS things like dumps, incinerators, smokestacks, freight yards, etc, etc tend to end up in poorer hoods NOT the high-hat districts.

    So NOT the latest, but still a big deal. In terms of equity AND environment.
    If you look at this report on the ten areas with the worst air pollution in the US, it confirms that’s largely true.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
    Ffs this is true of every city in the northern hemisphere. Winds from the west prevail, so pollution is driven east. This is why poor areas of cities tend to be in the east. See: the East End

    It has absolutely fuck all to do with race and diversity and racial equity unless traditional cockneys are secretly African. It’s just more American madness. Get a grip
    Read the post I replied to and get a grip yourself.
    Your race obsession is disturbing.
    You’re the guys that brought race into it! Literally. I’m pointing out that this so called racial inequity is all about social class, not race, and if you had a brain you’d already know the east/west wealth divide is an established urban phenomenon, because of the weather in northern hemisphere cities

    You’re just not very clever
    I didn’t mention race; nor did SS.
    You’re an obsessed idiot.
    Here’s what he posted you pitiful moron


    He replied to what williamglenn posted.p, which seems to have got you both confused and exited. Use your brain.
    He was replying to a post saying “white people are polluting non white people” and he said Yes, this is an issue of equity

    And apparently I’m the person who brings race into this debate. Tbh “pitiful moron” was generous
    Clearly it was @williamglenn who brought race into the conversation, not Seashanty, not Nigelb.

    And yes, your obsession with race is deeply disturbing.
    This whole squabble is just childish. If a topic is opened clearly about race, which it was, its not exactly unreasonable for someone coming into it later to also talk about race, even if others responding in the debate intended to take it in another direction. Thatd be like complaining about politics being brought up in a PB thread even though most people were commenting about trains.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,957
    DavidL said:

    Mr. Jessop, if this melted rapidly, there would be a ton of flooding.

    Remember the 10:1 ratio between snow and water. It will not produce nearly as much water as you think.
    But does tend to all melt in one big go. Thaw in the Cairngorms etc
This discussion has been closed.