Looking unlikely right now, but imagine we have a hung parliament where the SNP hold the balance of power. Kate Forbes is leader of the SNP, whose economic and social views suggest she would very likely be a Tory voter had she been born south of the border. Labour refuses to accede to her demands for indyref2, but Rishi actually approaches Forbes and says he'd agree to if the SNP propped him up. Is it possible at all she would say yes and prop the Tories up?
SNP would never take action that led to a Tory government.
Disappointing to see PBers still can't understand thje nature of causality, never mind the actual history of the time.
Even were Benpointer's interprtetation correct, you have to remember that Labour had massively reneged on thje referendum promise by counting the dead as No and imposing a minimum for Yes.
I was teasing. I don't actually blame the SNP for letting Thatcher in: There was going to have to be an election within 6 months anyway; it was not certain that the Tories would win; the Liberals (remember them?) also voted No Confidence.
But the SNP knew that a Tory win was in their strategic interest and lured first the LibDems, and then Labour, into calling for election at precisely the worst time.
I can’t believe they cut down all the trees at Euston
They were the only things that made the bleakness tolerable. They did it to “move a taxi rank” for HS2
Now look at it
Compared to the magnificence of St. Pancras, or Liverpool Street, you have to ask yourself, who turned Euston into something less appealing than a gents’ toilet in rural Turkey?
The station it replaced was kind of horrible too (from photographs and accounts I've read, never saw it IRL obvs). Certainly no St Pancras, or even Kings Cross. Even the much lamented arch was just your basic Victorian grandiosity. I don't mind Euston once you're inside. Piazzas don't really work here though, we lack the weather or light for it. Better to have big light internal spaces or a park.
“Basic Victorian Grandiosity” is about seven trillion times better than the shite we have now
Most of the residents of Britain's cities would happily swap their houses/flats for the most basic of Victorian grandiosity.
Victorian architecture is flattered by survivorship bias. They built hideous slums - back to backs with no ventilation or drainage, thin walls and tiny rooms - as well as nice terraced houses like the one I live in. The slums have mostly been torn down.
I can’t believe they cut down all the trees at Euston
They were the only things that made the bleakness tolerable. They did it to “move a taxi rank” for HS2
Now look at it
Compared to the magnificence of St. Pancras, or Liverpool Street, you have to ask yourself, who turned Euston into something less appealing than a gents’ toilet in rural Turkey?
The station it replaced was kind of horrible too (from photographs and accounts I've read, never saw it IRL obvs). Certainly no St Pancras, or even Kings Cross. Even the much lamented arch was just your basic Victorian grandiosity. I don't mind Euston once you're inside. Piazzas don't really work here though, we lack the weather or light for it. Better to have big light internal spaces or a park.
“Basic Victorian Grandiosity” is about seven trillion times better than the shite we have now
Maybe. Having heard a lot about the Euston arch and being naturally inclined towards Victoria railway stations I was surprised when I first saw a picture of it, at how ugly it was. And people complained about how dark and dingy the original Euston was. I quite like the main concourse at Euston, but being an East Coast guy it's not a station I've used often, mostly for the sleeper.
Nearly all of that “ugliness” was pollution, however. By the 1950s the Euston Arch had endured 110 years of London smog and soot and it had never been cleaned. Like the Parthenon but dipped in ash
Here it is in its original Doric glory. Beautiful
The outer columns are squared, the inner ones Doric. Poor. The rhythm of the columns and gaps is not regular. Poor. The entablature, frize and architrave is far too heavy for the width of the facade. Very poor.
It's a mishmash of bits and pieces by someone with more enthusiasm than experience.
All of which is like complaining about the standard of a disappointing ham and cheese sarnie when the alternative snack is a turd.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
And the public will be for it until they are against it, faced with some actual human beings facing deportation or some embarrassing case of a prominent foreign visitor barred from entering the country. Do they want to deport Mo Farrah?
Looking unlikely right now, but imagine we have a hung parliament where the SNP hold the balance of power. Kate Forbes is leader of the SNP, whose economic and social views suggest she would very likely be a Tory voter had she been born south of the border. Labour refuses to accede to her demands for indyref2, but Rishi actually approaches Forbes and says he'd agree to if the SNP propped him up. Is it possible at all she would say yes and prop the Tories up?
SNP would never take action that led to a Tory government.
Disappointing to see PBers still can't understand thje nature of causality, never mind the actual history of the time.
Even were Benpointer's interprtetation correct, you have to remember that Labour had massively reneged on thje referendum promise by counting the dead as No and imposing a minimum for Yes.
I was teasing. I don't actually blame the SNP for letting Thatcher in: There was going to have to be an election within 6 months anyway; it was not certain that the Tories would win; the Liberals (remember them?) also voted No Confidence.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
I can’t believe they cut down all the trees at Euston
They were the only things that made the bleakness tolerable. They did it to “move a taxi rank” for HS2
Now look at it
Compared to the magnificence of St. Pancras, or Liverpool Street, you have to ask yourself, who turned Euston into something less appealing than a gents’ toilet in rural Turkey?
The station it replaced was kind of horrible too (from photographs and accounts I've read, never saw it IRL obvs). Certainly no St Pancras, or even Kings Cross. Even the much lamented arch was just your basic Victorian grandiosity. I don't mind Euston once you're inside. Piazzas don't really work here though, we lack the weather or light for it. Better to have big light internal spaces or a park.
“Basic Victorian Grandiosity” is about seven trillion times better than the shite we have now
Most of the residents of Britain's cities would happily swap their houses/flats for the most basic of Victorian grandiosity.
Victorian architecture is flattered by survivorship bias. They built hideous slums - back to backs with no ventilation or drainage, thin walls and tiny rooms - as well as nice terraced houses like the one I live in. The slums have mostly been torn down.
Sure, but that still means we can take the good of it as an inspiration.
I can’t believe they cut down all the trees at Euston
They were the only things that made the bleakness tolerable. They did it to “move a taxi rank” for HS2
Now look at it
Compared to the magnificence of St. Pancras, or Liverpool Street, you have to ask yourself, who turned Euston into something less appealing than a gents’ toilet in rural Turkey?
The station it replaced was kind of horrible too (from photographs and accounts I've read, never saw it IRL obvs). Certainly no St Pancras, or even Kings Cross. Even the much lamented arch was just your basic Victorian grandiosity. I don't mind Euston once you're inside. Piazzas don't really work here though, we lack the weather or light for it. Better to have big light internal spaces or a park.
“Basic Victorian Grandiosity” is about seven trillion times better than the shite we have now
Maybe. Having heard a lot about the Euston arch and being naturally inclined towards Victoria railway stations I was surprised when I first saw a picture of it, at how ugly it was. And people complained about how dark and dingy the original Euston was. I quite like the main concourse at Euston, but being an East Coast guy it's not a station I've used often, mostly for the sleeper.
Nearly all of that “ugliness” was pollution, however. By the 1950s the Euston Arch had endured 110 years of London smog and soot and it had never been cleaned. Like the Parthenon but dipped in ash
Here it is in its original Doric glory. Beautiful
The outer columns are squared, the inner ones Doric. Poor. The rhythm of the columns and gaps is not regular. Poor. The entablature, frize and architrave is far too heavy for the width of the facade. Very poor.
It's a mishmash of bits and pieces by someone with more enthusiasm than experience.
All of which is like complaining about the standard of a disappointing ham and cheese sarnie when the alternative snack is a turd.
➡️Labour seen more favourably (+10) than SNP (-1) ➡️SCon vote holding up in polls ➡️SNP vote dropping to 39% (-6)(GE) ➡️ScotGov performance net negative on all voter priorities ➡️Starmer has positive approval among 2019 SNP voters
That is HYUFD level straw clutching. At the next GE the SNP are going to smash Starmer Labour out of the park.
All this hatred towards SKS because he's not dumb enough to say he'll immediately overturn Brexit once in No10 and give the Tories a lifeline.
Are you saying those people saying SKS is being economical with the actualité over his real EU intentions are correct?
I don't think you can overturn Brexit in a single term. It needs to be demonstrably shown it's shit no matter who is running the show.
Rejoin needs a whole lot more than people thinking the current situation is shit.
Indeed. It needs at least 10-15 years for relations between the EU and the UK to calm down and stabilise (far from a certain prospect in itself, given the potential for a further spat over Northern Ireland, the boat people problem, or any number of other things.) Then it needs a stable majority of something like 2:1 in public opinion for re-entry, in the knowledge that the UK would be almost certain to end up as a bigger net contributor to the EU budget than before, would have to accept FoM again and would also be expected to join the Euro. It also requires unequivocal backing from all the main political parties - which means that the tiny rump of elderly Tory members have an effective veto over the entire process.
I'm not saying that the UK will never go back, but it would be a major surprise if it happened this side of 2050.
At which point the EU will be a mighty 9% of world GDP.
The EU also won't want a big poor country joining and getting all the structural funds.
I can’t believe they cut down all the trees at Euston
They were the only things that made the bleakness tolerable. They did it to “move a taxi rank” for HS2
Now look at it
Compared to the magnificence of St. Pancras, or Liverpool Street, you have to ask yourself, who turned Euston into something less appealing than a gents’ toilet in rural Turkey?
The station it replaced was kind of horrible too (from photographs and accounts I've read, never saw it IRL obvs). Certainly no St Pancras, or even Kings Cross. Even the much lamented arch was just your basic Victorian grandiosity. I don't mind Euston once you're inside. Piazzas don't really work here though, we lack the weather or light for it. Better to have big light internal spaces or a park.
“Basic Victorian Grandiosity” is about seven trillion times better than the shite we have now
Most of the residents of Britain's cities would happily swap their houses/flats for the most basic of Victorian grandiosity.
Victorian architecture is flattered by survivorship bias. They built hideous slums - back to backs with no ventilation or drainage, thin walls and tiny rooms - as well as nice terraced houses like the one I live in. The slums have mostly been torn down.
Yet many of the monstrosities of 1960s architecture are still with us, 60 years later. Brutalism is what prevents an attractive aerial view of London in any direction. All those Grenfell like flat blocks.
➡️Labour seen more favourably (+10) than SNP (-1) ➡️SCon vote holding up in polls ➡️SNP vote dropping to 39% (-6)(GE) ➡️ScotGov performance net negative on all voter priorities ➡️Starmer has positive approval among 2019 SNP voters
That is HYUFD level straw clutching. At the next GE the SNP are going to smash Starmer Labour out of the park.
All this hatred towards SKS because he's not dumb enough to say he'll immediately overturn Brexit once in No10 and give the Tories a lifeline.
Are you saying those people saying SKS is being economical with the actualité over his real EU intentions are correct?
I don't think you can overturn Brexit in a single term. It needs to be demonstrably shown it's shit no matter who is running the show.
Rejoin needs a whole lot more than people thinking the current situation is shit.
Indeed. It needs at least 10-15 years for relations between the EU and the UK to calm down and stabilise (far from a certain prospect in itself, given the potential for a further spat over Northern Ireland, the boat people problem, or any number of other things.) Then it needs a stable majority of something like 2:1 in public opinion for re-entry, in the knowledge that the UK would be almost certain to end up as a bigger net contributor to the EU budget than before, would have to accept FoM again and would also be expected to join the Euro. It also requires unequivocal backing from all the main political parties - which means that the tiny rump of elderly Tory members have an effective veto over the entire process.
I'm not saying that the UK will never go back, but it would be a major surprise if it happened this side of 2050.
At which point the EU will be a mighty 9% of world GDP.
I'd be cautious about projecting the trends of the first two decades of the century too far into the future. Commentary can be so fixated on Britain's domestic problems and those of the wider West that we forget that everyone else has mighty challenges heading straight for them as well. China will have to deal with the same demographic crisis as the West when much of the country is still trying to develop, India is acutely vulnerable to the effects of climate change, and so on.
Looking unlikely right now, but imagine we have a hung parliament where the SNP hold the balance of power. Kate Forbes is leader of the SNP, whose economic and social views suggest she would very likely be a Tory voter had she been born south of the border. Labour refuses to accede to her demands for indyref2, but Rishi actually approaches Forbes and says he'd agree to if the SNP propped him up. Is it possible at all she would say yes and prop the Tories up?
She might but Forbes is more rightwing than Sunak so she increases the chances of a Labour majority or at least enough seats to just need the LDs for a majority not the SNP. She would likely lose seats to Scottish Labour but gain most of the remaining SCon seats
Is she a TORY even? Does she meet your criteria?
No. Doesn't believe in the UK. I'd have thought it was a rather big hint.
The Tories existed even before the Act of Union, that simply means she isn't a Conservative and Unionist
Wel, of course. The tóraithe (as then spelt) were early modern (aka Tudor etc) thieves and robbers. Even before the 1603 act.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
And even a lord shat in a glorified bucket. Grim times.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
Yousaf now has 46 SNP MSPs and MPs backing him to just 12 for Forbes. Currently he seems to have a plurality of SNP members backing him but not a majority. So if Forbes did get a shock win thanks to Regan's preferences then the SNP would have the same problem the Tories had with Truss and IDS and Labour had with Corbyn.
A party leader backed by the party's members but not its representatives in Parliament
Difference is that Ms Truss was not at all popular with the actual voters.
That was never tested.
What on earth do you think the result would have been aftwer the Kamikwazi Budget?!
If she'd hobbled on with Hunt's agenda, a result similar to what Rishi is cruising for. If she'd managed to implement most of her economic agenda, who knows?
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
➡️Labour seen more favourably (+10) than SNP (-1) ➡️SCon vote holding up in polls ➡️SNP vote dropping to 39% (-6)(GE) ➡️ScotGov performance net negative on all voter priorities ➡️Starmer has positive approval among 2019 SNP voters
That is HYUFD level straw clutching. At the next GE the SNP are going to smash Starmer Labour out of the park.
All this hatred towards SKS because he's not dumb enough to say he'll immediately overturn Brexit once in No10 and give the Tories a lifeline.
Are you saying those people saying SKS is being economical with the actualité over his real EU intentions are correct?
I don't think you can overturn Brexit in a single term. It needs to be demonstrably shown it's shit no matter who is running the show.
Rejoin needs a whole lot more than people thinking the current situation is shit.
Indeed. It needs at least 10-15 years for relations between the EU and the UK to calm down and stabilise (far from a certain prospect in itself, given the potential for a further spat over Northern Ireland, the boat people problem, or any number of other things.) Then it needs a stable majority of something like 2:1 in public opinion for re-entry, in the knowledge that the UK would be almost certain to end up as a bigger net contributor to the EU budget than before, would have to accept FoM again and would also be expected to join the Euro. It also requires unequivocal backing from all the main political parties - which means that the tiny rump of elderly Tory members have an effective veto over the entire process.
I'm not saying that the UK will never go back, but it would be a major surprise if it happened this side of 2050.
At which point the EU will be a mighty 9% of world GDP.
I'd be cautious about projecting the trends of the first two decades of the century too far into the future. Commentary can be so fixated on Britain's domestic problems and those of the wider West that we forget that everyone else has mighty challenges heading straight for them as well. China will have to deal with the same demographic crisis as the West when much of the country is still trying to develop, India is acutely vulnerable to the effects of climate change, and so on.
The EU economy in 2050 will likely be smaller than the forecast I described, because it doesn't take into account the demographic and fertility collapse in Europe from COVID.
Yousaf now has 46 SNP MSPs and MPs backing him to just 12 for Forbes. Currently he seems to have a plurality of SNP members backing him but not a majority. So if Forbes did get a shock win thanks to Regan's preferences then the SNP would have the same problem the Tories had with Truss and IDS and Labour had with Corbyn.
A party leader backed by the party's members but not its representatives in Parliament
Difference is that Ms Truss was not at all popular with the actual voters.
That was never tested.
What on earth do you think the result would have been aftwer the Kamikwazi Budget?!
If she'd hobbled on with Hunt's agenda, a result similar to what Rishi is cruising for. If she'd managed to implement most of her economic agenda, who knows?
For Gods sake let it go ! Truss was a catastrophe hated by the voters who had a creepy fascination with Thatcher.
Looking unlikely right now, but imagine we have a hung parliament where the SNP hold the balance of power. Kate Forbes is leader of the SNP, whose economic and social views suggest she would very likely be a Tory voter had she been born south of the border. Labour refuses to accede to her demands for indyref2, but Rishi actually approaches Forbes and says he'd agree to if the SNP propped him up. Is it possible at all she would say yes and prop the Tories up?
She might but Forbes is more rightwing than Sunak so she increases the chances of a Labour majority or at least enough seats to just need the LDs for a majority not the SNP. She would likely lose seats to Scottish Labour but gain most of the remaining SCon seats
Is she a TORY even? Does she meet your criteria?
No. Doesn't believe in the UK. I'd have thought it was a rather big hint.
The Tories existed even before the Act of Union, that simply means she isn't a Conservative and Unionist
Wel, of course. The tóraithe (as then spelt) were early modern (aka Tudor etc) thieves and robbers. Even before the 1603 act.
They also supported the monarchy etc. Forbes could certainly have been an 18th century Tory.
More than that, Margaret Thatcher could well have had Forbes in her Cabinet, her views would have slotted in well
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
And even a lord shat in a glorified bucket. Grim times.
Surely the lord in his castle deposited his stool down a hole leading to the castle moat, leaving a lovely streak down the walls? Favourite bit of any castle tour is the garderobe…
It's funny how scathing journalists are about the SNP. People talk about a pro-union bias, but I always got the sense they were a bit scared of Sturgeon/Salmond (Andrew Neil aside, of course).
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
I think it depends on what is being stopped. (A) Small boat crossings due to the awful risks people on them are taking (B) Small boat crossings to stop the nasty forrin people getting here
For many it’s A, for some it’s B, sadly.
I want to do A, but also sort out means whereby genuine asylum claims can be made, close to the countries of origin.*
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Yousaf now has 46 SNP MSPs and MPs backing him to just 12 for Forbes. Currently he seems to have a plurality of SNP members backing him but not a majority. So if Forbes did get a shock win thanks to Regan's preferences then the SNP would have the same problem the Tories had with Truss and IDS and Labour had with Corbyn.
A party leader backed by the party's members but not its representatives in Parliament
Difference is that Ms Truss was not at all popular with the actual voters.
That was never tested.
What on earth do you think the result would have been aftwer the Kamikwazi Budget?!
If she'd hobbled on with Hunt's agenda, a result similar to what Rishi is cruising for. If she'd managed to implement most of her economic agenda, who knows?
For Gods sake let it go ! Truss was a catastrophe hated by the voters who had a creepy fascination with Thatcher.
I was asked a question. I don't know why you think she was hated by the voters with a creepy fascination with Thatcher - I'd say they'd be more inclined to support her.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Yousaf now has 46 SNP MSPs and MPs backing him to just 12 for Forbes. Currently he seems to have a plurality of SNP members backing him but not a majority. So if Forbes did get a shock win thanks to Regan's preferences then the SNP would have the same problem the Tories had with Truss and IDS and Labour had with Corbyn.
A party leader backed by the party's members but not its representatives in Parliament
Difference is that Ms Truss was not at all popular with the actual voters.
That was never tested.
What on earth do you think the result would have been aftwer the Kamikwazi Budget?!
If she'd hobbled on with Hunt's agenda, a result similar to what Rishi is cruising for. If she'd managed to implement most of her economic agenda, who knows?
I 'm pretty sure that most of us are well aware of what would have happened.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
But presumably most of them came via France? So the argument "thou shalt stop in the first safe country" holds as well then as now?
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
There must be labour and lib dems who disagree with you if 50% agree the policy
I'm not trying to party politicise this even if you re.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
Yousaf now has 46 SNP MSPs and MPs backing him to just 12 for Forbes. Currently he seems to have a plurality of SNP members backing him but not a majority. So if Forbes did get a shock win thanks to Regan's preferences then the SNP would have the same problem the Tories had with Truss and IDS and Labour had with Corbyn.
A party leader backed by the party's members but not its representatives in Parliament
Difference is that Ms Truss was not at all popular with the actual voters.
That was never tested.
What on earth do you think the result would have been aftwer the Kamikwazi Budget?!
If she'd hobbled on with Hunt's agenda, a result similar to what Rishi is cruising for. If she'd managed to implement most of her economic agenda, who knows?
I 'm pretty sure that most of us are well aware of what would have happened.
Meh. I haven't studied polling post Suez, or Black Wednesday, etc., but I think if the PMs concerned survive, there is a modest recovery of sorts with the passage of time. The 'Rishi bounce' doesn’t seem much more extravagant than that to me.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
But presumably most of them came via France? So the argument "thou shalt stop in the first safe country" holds as well then as now?
And many of them did stop in France and Belgium and Holland, with disastrous consequences.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
I don't think fighting fire with fire in terms of mischaracterisation works, in this case. People really don't expect absolute perfection. If big projects were a bit over budget or bit delayed, they get annoyed but can understand that cannot reasonably be said to mean a project is a total failure.
It's when things are vastly overbudget and massively delayed that the criticisms ramp up. Particularly if it comes across like no one could have believed the initial estimates.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
I rarely agree with you but I'm happy to in this instance.
I've used Crossrail and it is hugely impressive. I must confess my journey from Farringdon to Whitechapel on Saturday evening was a bit of an obstacle course with the large number of presumably arrivals from Heathrow (though it could also be people heading to Stansted via Liverpool Street).
I've not yet seen any formal data but anecdotally the coming of Crossrail has made Whitechapel station much busier and both Mile End and Canada Water quieter.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
The Jews who arrived in 1938 generally arrived at our ports via The Netherlands, Belgium and France, democracies all. So you’re saying we should not have accepted them in 1938 because they could have stayed in those countries and be deported back when war came??!!! Some people on this board are beyond belief.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
But presumably most of them came via France? So the argument "thou shalt stop in the first safe country" holds as well then as now?
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
No one took Cool Britannia seriously.
It was very parrochial really. Nobody abroad would have known the original song in the first place.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
To an extent but crime was also lower in rural pre industrial England than in cities in the industrial revolution, food was organic and pesticide free, people spent more time outdoors than indoors looking at phones and screens. There was also arguably more community cohesion, whether at church or town fayres etc and families tended to stick together and there was no divorce
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
There must be labour and lib dems who disagree with you if 50% agree the policy
I'm not trying to party politicise this even if you re.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
I don't disagree with any of that but boats have to be stopped to save innocent lives
On the subject of attempting illegal entry to British territory, and how we enforced it, confining the trafficked migrants in an off shore camp, then deporting them back to their country of departure:
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
So what is your take on HS2?
That is a fuck up. Mainly because the business case changed after they specced and scoped it, its over-designed and the leadership are muppets.
But, strategically, it was (and is) still the right thing to do to link up England's major cities with a 21st century railway backbone.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
Agree 100%. We are good at building mega projects in this country, not least thanks to the skills of people like you. And we are spectacularly bad at finding the political will to either start them or finish them.
I wouldn't read too much into polling that shows huge public support for 'stopping the boats'; I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case. 'Twas ever thus. Especially as the Tories and the Mail etc. have successfully defined the occupants of small boats as 'illegals'. Most British voters have never been overly sympathetic to asylum seekers or refugees, and much less so to 'illegals'. If anything, I'd have expected the polling to be even more in favour of 'stopping the boats'.
Nevertheless, anti-migrant beliefs haven't stopped voters electing governments that don't share such attitudes in the past. People vote with more than one thing in mind, and I'm not persuaded that 'stopping the boats' will be anything like as important at GE 24 as 'Get Brexit Done' (oh, and by the way we don't want Corbyn) was at GE 2019.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
You took issue to me posting a quote from Blair talking about withdrawing from the ECHR because it was a long time ago, but this kind of the comment is the reason why it is important to look at the reality of that period rather than your bizarrely rose-tinted recollection of it.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
To an extent but crime was also lower in rural pre industrial England than in cities in the industrial revolution, food was organic and pesticide free, people spent more time outdoors than indoors looking at phones and screens. There was also arguably more community cohesion, whether at church or town fayres etc and families tended to stick together and there was no divorce
Homicide rates in England in 1300 were about ten times the current level. In the fifty years prior to the Black Death, England faced repeated famine, as the population had gone beyond the point at which it could easily be fed. Wheat was often infected with ergot, and adulteration of food in the towns was common. Private war between the barons was a constant risk for the lower classes, and the class system had real teeth.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
I don't think fighting fire with fire in terms of mischaracterisation works, in this case. People really don't expect absolute perfection. If big projects were a bit over budget or bit delayed, they get annoyed but can understand that cannot reasonably be said to mean a project is a total failure.
It's when things are vastly overbudget and massively delayed that the criticisms ramp up. Particularly if it comes across like no one could have believed the initial estimates.
I disagree.
Brits are whinging poms, and the Australians have got us dead right on that.
Heathrow T5 had a problem with its baggage systems for 48-72 hours after opening, and that was it, but no-one has ever forgot it.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
To an extent but crime was also lower in rural pre industrial England than in cities in the industrial revolution, food was organic and pesticide free, people spent more time outdoors than indoors looking at phones and screens. There was also arguably more community cohesion, whether at church or town fayres etc and families tended to stick together and there was no divorce
Homicide rates in England in 1300 were about ten times the current level. In the fifty years prior to the Black Death, England faced repeated famine, as the population had gone beyond the point at which it could easily be fed. Wheat was often infected with ergot, and adulteration of food in the towns was common. Private war between the barons was a constant risk for the lower classes, and the class system had real teeth.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
You took issue to me posting a quote from Blair talking about withdrawing from the ECHR because it was a long time ago, but this kind of the comment is the reason why it is important to look at the reality of that period rather than your bizarrely rose-tinted recollection of it.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
Ah you mean like they were taken by surprise when Russia invaded ukraine.....well I will be charitable and put it down to wishful thinking on their part. Anyone in 38 not seeing that hitler dreamt of a europe under the nazi bootheel was frankly deluding themselves
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
There's an old adage that my dad told me when I was knee-high to a grasshopper: when doing any construction, whether it's a new bathroom, a new house, building a road or a railway - then you have three criteria: specification, time and budget.
It is easy to get one of them (although the WCML upgrade did not meet any of them).
It is perfectly possible to get two: e.g. for the project to be on budget and spec, but late, or on spec and on time, but over budget.
But it is really, really hard for a project to be on spec, on time and on budget. Crossrail, it should be remembered, only hit one: specification. It was over budget and late.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
You took issue to me posting a quote from Blair talking about withdrawing from the ECHR because it was a long time ago, but this kind of the comment is the reason why it is important to look at the reality of that period rather than your bizarrely rose-tinted recollection of it.
I don’t think the public were any more keen on immigration from 1997-2010 than they are now.
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
There must be labour and lib dems who disagree with you if 50% agree the policy
I'm not trying to party politicise this even if you re.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
I don't disagree with any of that but boats have to be stopped to save innocent lives
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
To an extent but crime was also lower in rural pre industrial England than in cities in the industrial revolution, food was organic and pesticide free, people spent more time outdoors than indoors looking at phones and screens. There was also arguably more community cohesion, whether at church or town fayres etc and families tended to stick together and there was no divorce
Homicide rates in England in 1300 were about ten times the current level. In the fifty years prior to the Black Death, England faced repeated famine, as the population had gone beyond the point at which it could easily be fed. Wheat was often infected with ergot, and adulteration of food in the towns was common. Private war between the barons was a constant risk for the lower classes, and the class system had real teeth.
I think poor weather in the decades before the Black Death was a leading cause of the famines, rather than the increased population per se. One thing I find fascinating. After the tremendous loss of life in the Black Deaths first wave, there were some huge changes to society, but it took a long time to manifest. And the battle of Poitiers was in 1356. I wonder if it’s a bit like covid for us, people prefer to forget and just get on with stuff (slaughtering the French).
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
That’s really not true. France was at war with Germany from Sept 1939. The had built the Maginot Line. The surprise was the direction of the attack, not the attack itself.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
David Attenborough is a national treasure but has always been a luvvie Leftie.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
I despair of this country . From cool Brittania during Labours time in office to now becoming a pariah nation led by this rancid cesspit of a government.
You took issue to me posting a quote from Blair talking about withdrawing from the ECHR because it was a long time ago, but this kind of the comment is the reason why it is important to look at the reality of that period rather than your bizarrely rose-tinted recollection of it.
I don’t think the public were any more keen on immigration from 1997-2010 than they are now.
It's a golden opportunity for virtue signalling.
In this day and age, why should we be surprised that some people are delighted to have a chance to do so turned up to 11?
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
David Attenborough is a national treasure but has always been a luvvie Leftie.
He is also a patron of the optimum population trust which believes in a hugely reduced human population
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
There must be labour and lib dems who disagree with you if 50% agree the policy
I'm not trying to party politicise this even if you re.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
I don't disagree with any of that but boats have to be stopped to save innocent lives
Your last two words should read 'Tory seats'.
Sorry I just do not have a concern for conservative seats, I have concern for lives lost at sea and the risk my son and his colleagues, as sea going RNLI crew, take every day in rescuing people and children drowning at the hands of people smugglers
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
Heathrow? The airport where we haven't built the northern runway and we haven't built the western runway and we haven't built another runway at Gatwick and we haven't built Boris island. Meanwhile European superhubs continue to expand successfully and we slide ever backwards in terms of our competitiveness.
I am not attacking the quality of the projects that are built. I am attacking our constant inability to build projects. We haven't done a London hub airport expansion. We can't build high speed rail. We don't build motorways. Everyone else does. We are shit at infrastructure.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
That’s really not true. France was at war with Germany from Sept 1939. The had built the Maginot Line. The surprise was the direction of the attack, not the attack itself.
The Dutch were pretty surprised. While we can disagree over France, there is no suggestion that in 1938 an invasion of France was “imminent”.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
David Attenborough is a national treasure but has always been a luvvie Leftie.
Yet, the left used to welcome industrialisation, as it provided sufficient abundance to make socialism achievable.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
Heathrow? The airport where we haven't built the northern runway and we haven't built the western runway and we haven't built another runway at Gatwick and we haven't built Boris island. Meanwhile European superhubs continue to expand successfully and we slide ever backwards in terms of our competitiveness.
I am not attacking the quality of the projects that are built. I am attacking our constant inability to build projects. We haven't done a London hub airport expansion. We can't build high speed rail. We don't build motorways. Everyone else does. We are shit at infrastructure.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
That’s really not true. France was at war with Germany from Sept 1939. The had built the Maginot Line. The surprise was the direction of the attack, not the attack itself.
The Dutch were pretty surprised. While we can disagree over France, there is no suggestion that in 1938 an invasion of France was “imminent”.
Are you suggesting they built the maginot line just for a laugh?
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
There's an old adage that my dad told me when I was knee-high to a grasshopper: when doing any construction, whether it's a new bathroom, a new house, building a road or a railway - then you have three criteria: specification, time and budget.
It is easy to get one of them (although the WCML upgrade did not meet any of them).
It is perfectly possible to get two: e.g. for the project to be on budget and spec, but late, or on spec and on time, but over budget.
But it is really, really hard for a project to be on spec, on time and on budget. Crossrail, it should be remembered, only hit one: specification. It was over budget and late.
The budget and schedule envelope set for Crossrail was never realistic - the Treasury took all float and contingency out of it and demanded it got everything (all testing and commissioning) right first time in an absurdly short timescale. And, don't forget, it will deliver all the benefits listed in its business case. WCML was much later, and more over budget, but that was brownfield not greenfield and again - delivered an excellent product; the WCML is far better and faster than it was in the 1990s.
We need to move to windows, with margins of error, for big infrastructure projects. It's not like getting a quote for your conservatory.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
That’s really not true. France was at war with Germany from Sept 1939. The had built the Maginot Line. The surprise was the direction of the attack, not the attack itself.
The Dutch were pretty surprised. While we can disagree over France, there is no suggestion that in 1938 an invasion of France was “imminent”.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
That’s really not true. France was at war with Germany from Sept 1939. The had built the Maginot Line. The surprise was the direction of the attack, not the attack itself.
The Dutch were pretty surprised. While we can disagree over France, there is no suggestion that in 1938 an invasion of France was “imminent”.
Well yes, but I was commenting on 1940. I agree in 1938 it wasn5 imminent, although war was looming, that was pretty evident.
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
There must be labour and lib dems who disagree with you if 50% agree the policy
I'm not trying to party politicise this even if you re.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
I don't disagree with any of that but boats have to be stopped to save innocent lives
Your last two words should read 'Tory seats'.
Sorry I just do not have a concern for conservative seats, I have concern for lives lost at sea and the risk my son and his colleagues, as sea going RNLI crew, take every day in rescuing people and children drowning at the hands of people smugglers
Big G, my comment wasn't aimed at you personally - far from it. However, I would take some persuading that Braverman's main concern is to 'save innocent lives' - I reckon that's a long way down her list of priorities.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
David Attenborough is a national treasure but has always been a luvvie Leftie.
He's a true patriot now, finally doing a series about our Beloved Blighty, starting this coming Sunday at 7pm.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
Ah you mean like they were taken by surprise when Russia invaded ukraine.....well I will be charitable and put it down to wishful thinking on their part. Anyone in 38 not seeing that hitler dreamt of a europe under the nazi bootheel was frankly deluding themselves
Even Churchill was "dumbfounded" by the German victory over France in 1940.
Lineker seems to like to have his cake and eat it: using the BBC as a platform, and taking a massive salary from it, but damaging its reputation for neutrality accordingly, without obeying any of the rules.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
That’s really not true. France was at war with Germany from Sept 1939. The had built the Maginot Line. The surprise was the direction of the attack, not the attack itself.
Construction on the Maginot Line began in 1929 and it was intended as a deterrent from its inception. The mindset was that it would prevent war rather than in the expectation of it.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
Heathrow? The airport where we haven't built the northern runway and we haven't built the western runway and we haven't built another runway at Gatwick and we haven't built Boris island. Meanwhile European superhubs continue to expand successfully and we slide ever backwards in terms of our competitiveness.
I am not attacking the quality of the projects that are built. I am attacking our constant inability to build projects. We haven't done a London hub airport expansion. We can't build high speed rail. We don't build motorways. Everyone else does. We are shit at infrastructure.
I think you just spew verbal diarrhoea of the first emotions that enter your mind.
Not sure if this has been done yet, but this week's YouGov poll was published by The Times Red Box this morning: Labour 45 (-2) Tory 23 (-2) LibDem 10 (-) Greens 7 (+1) Reform 7 (+2) SNP 4 (-) No polling dates were provided, but the previous week's (referenced in brackets) was 28th February and 1st March, so it's likely this one was conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday. If so, no Tory small boat bounce as yet.
Anyone expecting a 'Small Boat Bounce' takes an even dimmer view of the Great British public than I do. Braverman looks and sounds like a souped up Patel. The most unpopular member of an unpopulat government. Are people really attracted to those who seem to enjoy pulling the wings off flies?
Seems 50% support Sunak on boats
Britain Elects
On banning migrants who come to the UK in small boats from ever re-entering the UK
The question is very black or white . What would the result be if you added a caveat that banning would include genuine asylum seekers . Sadly much of the public only deal in slogans and swallow sound bites put out by no 10 politburo and its arse licking right wing press .
The key is small boats and to stop them
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
Jews coming from Germany, a dangerous anti-Semitic dictatorship. Not people coming from France, a modern, liberal democracy. Do keep up.
Hmm I wonder which country located between Germany and Britain those Jewish refugees might have passed through on their way here.
Bollocks because in 1938 the netherlands and france etc were under imminent threat of invasion by the ones endangering german jews.....no one today is planning on invading france except maybe putin on those fantasy wet dream nights
Erm…no they weren’t. The war was still a year away and the Jews had been arriving since the Nuremberg Laws three years earlier. No one in France or the Netherlands thought in 1938 they were at risk of invasion. As was proved in May 1940 when they were both taken totally by surprise when it happened.
Ah you mean like they were taken by surprise when Russia invaded ukraine.....well I will be charitable and put it down to wishful thinking on their part. Anyone in 38 not seeing that hitler dreamt of a europe under the nazi bootheel was frankly deluding themselves
Even Churchill was "dumbfounded" by the German victory over France in 1940.
He probably expected them not to capitulate quite so quickly, 6 weeks....the ukraine have withstood russia for about 10 times that
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
David Attenborough is a national treasure but has always been a luvvie Leftie.
He is also a patron of the optimum population trust which believes in a hugely reduced human population
A warning that people can be hugely impressive and respected public figures, but also talk shite.
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
I don't think fighting fire with fire in terms of mischaracterisation works, in this case. People really don't expect absolute perfection. If big projects were a bit over budget or bit delayed, they get annoyed but can understand that cannot reasonably be said to mean a project is a total failure.
It's when things are vastly overbudget and massively delayed that the criticisms ramp up. Particularly if it comes across like no one could have believed the initial estimates.
I disagree.
Brits are whinging poms, and the Australians have got us dead right on that.
Heathrow T5 had a problem with its baggage systems for 48-72 hours after opening, and that was it, but no-one has ever forgot it.
LHRT5 is great. The Liz Line is great. We can do great infrastructure. They had problems but now they’re world class
But it is futile to deny that HS2 is a proper copper-bottomed chateau-bottled disaster, and one we haven’t even begun to solve - it might yet get worse
It was an over engineered solution to an almost non existent problem, and the expense was always hideous. Fuck knows how we get out of this mess
Just because a policy is popular doesn't make it right. I thought we were beyond policy by focus groups.
There must be labour and lib dems who disagree with you if 50% agree the policy
I'm not trying to party politicise this even if you re.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
I don't disagree with any of that but boats have to be stopped to save innocent lives
Your last two words should read 'Tory seats'.
Sorry I just do not have a concern for conservative seats, I have concern for lives lost at sea and the risk my son and his colleagues, as sea going RNLI crew, take every day in rescuing people and children drowning at the hands of people smugglers
Big G, my comment wasn't aimed at you personally - far from it. However, I would take some persuading that Braverman's main concern is to 'save innocent lives' - I reckon that's a long way down her list of priorities.
I genuinely care for the lives of people at sea and am very proud my son who is sea going crew on the verge of getting his first command in just 2 years
I want the boats stopped for this reason and reject Farage style attitudes to Immigrants
An awful lot of shit written about infrastructure on this thread by those who know nothing about it.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
Agree 100%. We are good at building mega projects in this country, not least thanks to the skills of people like you. And we are spectacularly bad at finding the political will to either start them or finish them.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
To an extent but crime was also lower in rural pre industrial England than in cities in the industrial revolution, food was organic and pesticide free, people spent more time outdoors than indoors looking at phones and screens. There was also arguably more community cohesion, whether at church or town fayres etc and families tended to stick together and there was no divorce
Homicide rates in England in 1300 were about ten times the current level. In the fifty years prior to the Black Death, England faced repeated famine, as the population had gone beyond the point at which it could easily be fed. Wheat was often infected with ergot, and adulteration of food in the towns was common. Private war between the barons was a constant risk for the lower classes, and the class system had real teeth.
I have to admit this thought occurred to me when someone suggested the Tories taking on David Attenborough next as being a stupid idea (which it very much would be), due to comments he's made about the industrial revolution - whilst he may have thought through the implications of that, I do think it has an image problem which doesn't consider the good points.
Err not sure these two things are the same. The first counts as pure environmental degradation, the second was costly but had the upside of by far the biggest increase in human welfare in history.
Unfair to pick on this otherwise interesting post but it's a mistake that comes up surprisingly often. What do people think life would be like if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels? Like it is now, just no climate crisis? https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1633845495595671552/photo/1
We’d have chopped down all the forests, and burned them for energy.
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
I don't think that's the error. I think they just don't know history and don't have much understanding of pre-industrial life. They have a vision of Hobbits in the Shire.
I think that’s right. And the Shire was rural Warwickshire in the 1890’s, rather than a medieval society.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
David Attenborough is a national treasure but has always been a luvvie Leftie.
He is also a patron of the optimum population trust which believes in a hugely reduced human population
A warning that people can be hugely impressive and respected public figures, but also talk shite.
As a naturalist he is impressive, when it comes to area's outside his sphere like many he assumes his expertise in on field makes him an expert on everything else
Comments
People who wish the Industrial Revolution had never happened seem to imagine themselves living like lords, rather than like peasants.
Remember the death penalty actually being pretty popular, but most politicians are still happy to think it is wrong?
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
The Daily Mail, 1938.
More than that, Margaret Thatcher could well have had Forbes in her Cabinet, her views would have slotted in well
Favourite bit of any castle tour is the garderobe…
No such reticence with these three. Smell blood.
(A) Small boat crossings due to the awful risks people on them are taking
(B) Small boat crossings to stop the nasty forrin people getting here
For many it’s A, for some it’s B, sadly.
I want to do A, but also sort out means whereby genuine asylum claims can be made, close to the countries of origin.*
*Does not include Albania.
Britain is world-leading at creating excellent infrastructure, and Heathrow T5, the Olympics and Crossrail are all first class.
The measure seems to be absolute perfection of superb quality, on time, on budget and with no teething trouble whatsoever predicted with total accuracy over 10 years in advance otherwise it's shit.
Megaprojects don't work like that.
I think both Sunak and Starmer are being responsible - Sunak is trying to work with the French and others to come up with a suitable and proportionate response and Starmer reminds us it's the people smuggling gangs who are actively profiting from the desperation and misery of others. Targeting them and stopping them (and to be fair some of them appear to be British citizens so our hands aren't exactly clean) seems wholly sensible.
Where I part company with Braverman is her policy continues to inflame sentiment against migrants - once a group is suitably dehumanised and vilified any action aginst them becomes justified. Whatever we may think of them as a group, migrants are individuals and we should treat them with a common decency and humanity.
A pre-industrial world is one where starvation is a reality when the crops fail; most children don’t reach adulthood; most homes are damp and insanitary; people die of infections and illnesses that are easily treated today; violent crime is rife; competition for resources is fierce, and the class system is brutal.
It's when things are vastly overbudget and massively delayed that the criticisms ramp up. Particularly if it comes across like no one could have believed the initial estimates.
I've used Crossrail and it is hugely impressive. I must confess my journey from Farringdon to Whitechapel on Saturday evening was a bit of an obstacle course with the large number of presumably arrivals from Heathrow (though it could also be people heading to Stansted via Liverpool Street).
I've not yet seen any formal data but anecdotally the coming of Crossrail has made Whitechapel station much busier and both Mile End and Canada Water quieter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus
But, strategically, it was (and is) still the right thing to do to link up England's major cities with a 21st century railway backbone.
Nevertheless, anti-migrant beliefs haven't stopped voters electing governments that don't share such attitudes in the past. People vote with more than one thing in mind, and I'm not persuaded that 'stopping the boats' will be anything like as important at GE 24 as 'Get Brexit Done' (oh, and by the way we don't want Corbyn) was at GE 2019.
Brits are whinging poms, and the Australians have got us dead right on that.
Heathrow T5 had a problem with its baggage systems for 48-72 hours after opening, and that was it, but no-one has ever forgot it.
@BritainElects
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3h
Share of Britons that rank immigration as an important issue in...
2023 | February: 12%
2016 | Eve of EU ref: 48%
2015 | Refugee crisis: 56%
2013-15 | Poll average: 36%
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1633865225865658372?cxt=HHwWiICw6YXx06wtAAAA
It is easy to get one of them (although the WCML upgrade did not meet any of them).
It is perfectly possible to get two: e.g. for the project to be on budget and spec, but late, or on spec and on time, but over budget.
But it is really, really hard for a project to be on spec, on time and on budget. Crossrail, it should be remembered, only hit one: specification. It was over budget and late.
One thing I find fascinating. After the tremendous loss of life in the Black Deaths first wave, there were some huge changes to society, but it took a long time to manifest. And the battle of Poitiers was in 1356. I wonder if it’s a bit like covid for us, people prefer to forget and just get on with stuff (slaughtering the French).
Some things are unpopular but right some things are unpopular but wrong
My point was you cant say this is popular so must be wrong
In this day and age, why should we be surprised that some people are delighted to have a chance to do so turned up to 11?
I am not attacking the quality of the projects that are built. I am attacking our constant inability to build projects. We haven't done a London hub airport expansion. We can't build high speed rail. We don't build motorways. Everyone else does. We are shit at infrastructure.
We need to move to windows, with margins of error, for big infrastructure projects. It's not like getting a quote for your conservatory.
But it is futile to deny that HS2 is a proper copper-bottomed chateau-bottled disaster, and one we haven’t even begun to solve - it might yet get worse
It was an over engineered solution to an almost non existent problem, and the expense was always
hideous. Fuck knows how we get out of this mess
I want the boats stopped for this reason and reject Farage style attitudes to Immigrants