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Who’s Fooling Whom? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFD said:

    Before anyone gets too carried away with an SNP and/or Plaid collapse, just a wee reminder of the last three proper polls in each country (GE2019 result in brackets)

    SNP 42%, 45%, 45% (45.0%)

    PC 13%, 15%, 16% (9.9%)

    So SNP below their 2019 total in one and failing to exceed it in the other 2
    Holding steady in the mid 40s is infinitely preferable to the SCon dalliance with sub-teen numbers. But is you’re happy with being unpopular then that is absolutely fine by me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    The Conservatives were never under 30% with Deltapoll when Boris was PM. However I think Sunak will recover a bit more the next election, even if he still loses
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:

    Before anyone gets too carried away with an SNP and/or Plaid collapse, just a wee reminder of the last three proper polls in each country (GE2019 result in brackets)

    SNP 42%, 45%, 45% (45.0%)

    PC 13%, 15%, 16% (9.9%)

    So SNP below their 2019 total in one and failing to exceed it in the other 2
    Holding steady in the mid 40s is infinitely preferable to the SCon dalliance with sub-teen numbers. But is you’re happy with being unpopular then that is absolutely fine by me.
    The Conservatives are unpopular UK wide at the moment, there is a swing from SNP to Labour in Scotland as much as there is a swing from Conservatives to Labour in the rest of the UK
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    London
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    LD 14%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 41%
    Con 19%
    LD 15%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 10%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    Grn 8%
    LD 7%
    Ref 6%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 59%
    Con 18%
    LD 7%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 48%
    Lab 30%
    Grn 7%
    Con 7%
    LD 5%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,331; 18 November)

    That Rest of the South Con figure os startling.
    More startling. London has the joint highest Tory score of any region.
    The joy of subsamples, eh?
    Possibly a boost amongst British Indians?
    Almost certainly. But my awareness of that demographic is poor: are they unusually concentrated in London?
    Indians heavily concentrated in west london especially boroughs near heathrow like hounslow. So yes a boost likely here
  • Leon said:

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    BAXTERED:


    Labour: 511
    Tories: 55


    Interestingly, the Tories would STILL be the Opposition because the SNP on 3% would fall to about 35 seats
    Hmm. Would someone who knows Scottish politics and isn't too invested in independence either way (are there such people) comment on whether the SNP grip is in fact weakening and Labour is picking up? - perhaps related to the issues in Cyclefree's leader, or general tiredness, or...? Or is it just random variation? If Labour was making real inroads in Scotland, that would drastically change the odds on a Labour majority.

    Incidentally, we have a local by-election in a Tory ward and I've been doing some phone canvassing. Tories under pressure, but there are still lots who are quite unhesitatingly Tory. I can well believe that there's a floor of 20-25%.
    SLab are definitely on the up-tick, but unfortunately for Sarwar and Starmer, the gained votes are coming straight from the other Unionist parties. Your team are making zero impact on SNP support.

    In order to gain seats SLab needs *two* things:

    1. SLab VI north of 30%
    2. SNP VI south of 40%

    1. looks do-able
    2. doesn’t
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Leon said:

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    BAXTERED:


    Labour: 511
    Tories: 55


    Interestingly, the Tories would STILL be the Opposition because the SNP on 3% would fall to about 35 seats
    Hmm. Would someone who knows Scottish politics and isn't too invested in independence either way (are there such people) comment on whether the SNP grip is in fact weakening and Labour is picking up? - perhaps related to the issues in Cyclefree's leader, or general tiredness, or...? Or is it just random variation? If Labour was making real inroads in Scotland, that would drastically change the odds on a Labour majority.

    Incidentally, we have a local by-election in a Tory ward and I've been doing some phone canvassing. Tories under pressure, but there are still lots who are quite unhesitatingly Tory. I can well believe that there's a floor of 20-25%.
    SLab are definitely on the up-tick, but unfortunately for Sarwar and Starmer, the gained votes are coming straight from the other Unionist parties. Your team are making zero impact on SNP support.

    In order to gain seats SLab needs *two* things:

    1. SLab VI north of 30%
    2. SNP VI south of 40%

    1. looks do-able
    2. doesn’t
    Not if Scons and SLD voters are now tactically voting Labour to oust SNP MPs, which is likely with Corbyn gone
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    = either from Sunak or Hunt
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Before anyone gets too carried away with an SNP and/or Plaid collapse, just a wee reminder of the last three proper polls in each country (GE2019 result in brackets)

    SNP 42%, 45%, 45% (45.0%)

    PC 13%, 15%, 16% (9.9%)

    So SNP below their 2019 total in one and failing to exceed it in the other 2
    Holding steady in the mid 40s is infinitely preferable to the SCon dalliance with sub-teen numbers. But is you’re happy with being unpopular then that is absolutely fine by me.
    The Conservatives are unpopular UK wide at the moment, there is a swing from SNP to Labour in Scotland as much as there is a swing from Conservatives to Labour in the rest of the UK
    Any SNP to SLab swing (unproven yet) is absolutely minuscule compared to the ginormous Con to Lab swing in England.

    To compound SLab’s dire situation: the proposed new boundaries are heavily pro-SNP. There are almost no SNP/Lab marginals any more.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    What odds would you give on the SNP being the Official opposition?
    It's not completely inconceivable.
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    DrkB said:

    DrkB said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    to be fair this was pointless virtue signalling by england, im pretty sure many of the players would be uncomfortable with an openly gay player in the dressing room regardless of what they say.
    That's an interesting point actually.

    How much have attitudes really, seriously, changed and how much of it is just very strong social proof with actual tolerance only skin-deep?

    I'm not sure but, I suspect, it would easily return if the rules were different as fundamentally authoritarianism is buried deep within us.
    I actually think tolerance is only skin deep amongst many even in some younger people. People are natural herd animals and homosexuality has been presented very positively in the last 30 years. I always remember my friends at university saying they would think less of someone if they knew they were gay....not so long ago either
    I suppose it depends what you mean by skin deep. That they are pretending? Or that they believe they are tolerant, but push come to shove would react against?

    As I can easily believe some people are more uncomfortable in reality than they might admit, but in practice if they genuinely believe themselves tolerant, and act accordingly, what would then shift them to reveal an inner contrary opinion, even to themselves?

    And if it is largely about presentation and herd behaviour, for sake of argument, then within a general or two the tolerance will be ingrained and not skin deep anyway.
    I think everything fails, eventually, because every system possesses the seeds of its own decay. One day, liberal democracy will fail, and the executioner and torture chamber will return to Western Europe.

    Some of those regimes will persecute homosexuals.
    Agreed generally sexual freedom goes with widespread prosperity....can you imagine a nation of poor farmers obsessing about gay rights
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    = either from Sunak or Hunt
    Farage had a fit 'Rishi Sunak is a Goldman Sachs globalist, so this sellout of Brexit is not surprising. The Tories must be crushed.'
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1594054645713887232?s=20&t=8vPX7LYvLcWOO1DpQASd5A

    The Tories panicked at being squeezed on the right by Farage as well as the left by Starmer and so the idea has probably been dropped
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    BAXTERED:


    Labour: 511
    Tories: 55


    Interestingly, the Tories would STILL be the Opposition because the SNP on 3% would fall to about 35 seats
    Hmm. Would someone who knows Scottish politics and isn't too invested in independence either way (are there such people) comment on whether the SNP grip is in fact weakening and Labour is picking up? - perhaps related to the issues in Cyclefree's leader, or general tiredness, or...? Or is it just random variation? If Labour was making real inroads in Scotland, that would drastically change the odds on a Labour majority.

    Incidentally, we have a local by-election in a Tory ward and I've been doing some phone canvassing. Tories under pressure, but there are still lots who are quite unhesitatingly Tory. I can well believe that there's a floor of 20-25%.
    SLab are definitely on the up-tick, but unfortunately for Sarwar and Starmer, the gained votes are coming straight from the other Unionist parties. Your team are making zero impact on SNP support.

    In order to gain seats SLab needs *two* things:

    1. SLab VI north of 30%
    2. SNP VI south of 40%

    1. looks do-able
    2. doesn’t
    Not if Scons and SLD voters are now tactically voting Labour to oust SNP MPs, which is likely with Corbyn gone
    But unlikely to be effective, unless the SNP vote falls significantly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    The puzzling thing is where is this Swiss style stuff coming from. As Barclay said on sky this morning Hunt set out ways in his statement of how the UK was looking to diverge from the EU in certain areas like biosciences. They also didn't reverse the decision on capping bankers' bonuses which would have been popular.

    It could dark arts from Labour, to float their preferred option as a government policy to provoke a Tory split.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:

    What odds would you give on the SNP being the Official opposition?
    It's not completely inconceivable.

    The BQ were the official opposition on seats in Canada from 1993 to 1997 to the governing Liberals after the collapse of the Canadian Progressive Conservatives, though both the PCs and Reform won more votes than BQ
  • dixiedean said:

    What odds would you give on the SNP being the Official opposition?
    It's not completely inconceivable.

    I’m amazed there’s not a market up. People have been posting such projections for months now. Even some newspapers. It is definitely in the zeitgeist.

    (I’m not a likely participant in such a market. For the obvious reason.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Before anyone gets too carried away with an SNP and/or Plaid collapse, just a wee reminder of the last three proper polls in each country (GE2019 result in brackets)

    SNP 42%, 45%, 45% (45.0%)

    PC 13%, 15%, 16% (9.9%)

    So SNP below their 2019 total in one and failing to exceed it in the other 2
    Holding steady in the mid 40s is infinitely preferable to the SCon dalliance with sub-teen numbers. But is you’re happy with being unpopular then that is absolutely fine by me.
    The Conservatives are unpopular UK wide at the moment, there is a swing from SNP to Labour in Scotland as much as there is a swing from Conservatives to Labour in the rest of the UK
    Any SNP to SLab swing (unproven yet) is absolutely minuscule compared to the ginormous Con to Lab swing in England.

    To compound SLab’s dire situation: the proposed new boundaries are heavily pro-SNP. There are almost no SNP/Lab marginals any more.
    If the SNP are well under 50% there definitely are if Unionist voters tactically vote for the party best able to beat the SNP, in most cases SLab
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2022
    The Economist:

    Is Britain* tiptoeing away from a medical scandal? Until recently, many gender specialists in the National Health Service (nhs) treated trans-identifying children by broadly following an “affirmative” approach which accepts patients’ self-diagnosis as the starting-point for treatment. That can mean the prescription of puberty blockers from early adolescence, followed by cross-sex hormones.

    But Britain* now appears to be changing tack…..


    * England - Scotland is carrying on regardless (of the Cass review, among others).

    https://archive.ph/2022.11.17-161454/https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/11/17/britain-changes-tack-in-its-treatment-of-trans-identifying-children
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    London
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    LD 14%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 41%
    Con 19%
    LD 15%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 10%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    Grn 8%
    LD 7%
    Ref 6%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 59%
    Con 18%
    LD 7%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 48%
    Lab 30%
    Grn 7%
    Con 7%
    LD 5%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,331; 18 November)

    That Rest of the South Con figure os startling.
    More startling. London has the joint highest Tory score of any region.
    The joy of subsamples, eh?
    But Sunak has been doing much better in London that either Truss or late Johnson. He seems to appeal (relatively) to Metropolitans. The rest of England: not so much.
    Indeed. But I'll be convinced he's doing better in London than Rest of South when the results are declared. Not before.
    The whole point of a betting website is attempting to be wise *before* an event.
    Well of course.
    And if we all took the same view there'd be no betting markets. I am sceptical that Sunak is doing better in London than anywhere else.
    Fair enough. But please tell us where Sunak is doing better than he is in London.

    Somerset?
    Lincolnshire?
    Staffordshire?
    Where?
    Staffs would be one. So would Essex and Lincs where the Tories start with huge majorities. If Sunak is doing better in London than those, then that would be truly epochal vote switching.
    Remember that Blair won 9 out of 12 seats in Staffs 3 times in a row.
  • dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    BAXTERED:


    Labour: 511
    Tories: 55


    Interestingly, the Tories would STILL be the Opposition because the SNP on 3% would fall to about 35 seats
    Hmm. Would someone who knows Scottish politics and isn't too invested in independence either way (are there such people) comment on whether the SNP grip is in fact weakening and Labour is picking up? - perhaps related to the issues in Cyclefree's leader, or general tiredness, or...? Or is it just random variation? If Labour was making real inroads in Scotland, that would drastically change the odds on a Labour majority.

    Incidentally, we have a local by-election in a Tory ward and I've been doing some phone canvassing. Tories under pressure, but there are still lots who are quite unhesitatingly Tory. I can well believe that there's a floor of 20-25%.
    SLab are definitely on the up-tick, but unfortunately for Sarwar and Starmer, the gained votes are coming straight from the other Unionist parties. Your team are making zero impact on SNP support.

    In order to gain seats SLab needs *two* things:

    1. SLab VI north of 30%
    2. SNP VI south of 40%

    1. looks do-able
    2. doesn’t
    Not if Scons and SLD voters are now tactically voting Labour to oust SNP MPs, which is likely with Corbyn gone
    But unlikely to be effective, unless the SNP vote falls significantly.
    FUDHY doesn’t know anything about Scottish electoral behaviour. He thinks all the people voting Labour, Liberal Democrat and Tory hate the SNP as much as he does. They don’t.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    DrkB said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    DrkB said:

    DrkB said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    to be fair this was pointless virtue signalling by england, im pretty sure many of the players would be uncomfortable with an openly gay player in the dressing room regardless of what they say.
    That's an interesting point actually.

    How much have attitudes really, seriously, changed and how much of it is just very strong social proof with actual tolerance only skin-deep?

    I'm not sure but, I suspect, it would easily return if the rules were different as fundamentally authoritarianism is buried deep within us.
    I actually think tolerance is only skin deep amongst many even in some younger people. People are natural herd animals and homosexuality has been presented very positively in the last 30 years. I always remember my friends at university saying they would think less of someone if they knew they were gay....not so long ago either
    I suppose it depends what you mean by skin deep. That they are pretending? Or that they believe they are tolerant, but push come to shove would react against?

    As I can easily believe some people are more uncomfortable in reality than they might admit, but in practice if they genuinely believe themselves tolerant, and act accordingly, what would then shift them to reveal an inner contrary opinion, even to themselves?

    And if it is largely about presentation and herd behaviour, for sake of argument, then within a general or two the tolerance will be ingrained and not skin deep anyway.
    I think everything fails, eventually, because every system possesses the seeds of its own decay. One day, liberal democracy will fail, and the executioner and torture chamber will return to Western Europe.

    Some of those regimes will persecute homosexuals.
    Agreed generally sexual freedom goes with widespread prosperity....can you imagine a nation of poor farmers obsessing about gay rights
    And yet.
    Most of east Asia's subsistence farmers didn't give a toss what gender anyone did it with.
    Sexual freedom and gay rights aren't the same thing either btw.
    You really need to be less Western obsessed.
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68
    Mark Dolan on woke

    Woke is a colossal negative force in modern society which I believe threatens to bring down the West.’ Mark Dolan gives his take on Meghan Markle saying the word ‘woke’ means ‘alert to injustice in society, especially racism.’


    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1594092691469455362?s=20&t=rWVlH8coR7drBwzgiQvsgA
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    London
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    LD 14%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 41%
    Con 19%
    LD 15%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 10%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    Grn 8%
    LD 7%
    Ref 6%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 59%
    Con 18%
    LD 7%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 48%
    Lab 30%
    Grn 7%
    Con 7%
    LD 5%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,331; 18 November)

    That Rest of the South Con figure os startling.
    More startling. London has the joint highest Tory score of any region.
    The joy of subsamples, eh?
    But Sunak has been doing much better in London that either Truss or late Johnson. He seems to appeal (relatively) to Metropolitans. The rest of England: not so much.
    Indeed. But I'll be convinced he's doing better in London than Rest of South when the results are declared. Not before.
    The whole point of a betting website is attempting to be wise *before* an event.
    Well of course.
    And if we all took the same view there'd be no betting markets. I am sceptical that Sunak is doing better in London than anywhere else.
    Fair enough. But please tell us where Sunak is doing better than he is in London.

    Somerset?
    Lincolnshire?
    Staffordshire?
    Where?
    Staffs would be one. So would Essex and Lincs where the Tories start with huge majorities. If Sunak is doing better in London than those, then that would be truly epochal vote switching.
    Remember that Blair won 9 out of 12 seats in Staffs 3 times in a row.
    Indeed he did. But it was drift to there. And it's been drift away.
    Any lead for Labour in Staffs would be a tsunami.
  • The puzzling thing is where is this Swiss style stuff coming from. As Barclay said on sky this morning Hunt set out ways in his statement of how the UK was looking to diverge from the EU in certain areas like biosciences. They also didn't reverse the decision on capping bankers' bonuses which would have been popular.

    It could dark arts from Labour, to float their preferred option as a government policy to provoke a Tory split.
    “A” split?
    “Provoke”?

    The Tories are already split at least 12 ways. A 13th seems inevitable, even without Labour assistance.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    MaxPB said:

    Driver said:

    Heathener said:

    Politicalbetting would be a far better place if people stopped writing articles and comments about trans issues.

    It's irrelevant to politics and it brings out the worst in the hard right wingers and trans exclusionary radical feminists.

    Let people get on with their lives and stop f-ing obsessing about an irrelevant topic in the grand scheme.

    "People who disagree with me should shut up".
    She's an intelligent poster most of the time but I'm afraid this is how her generation is wired. It's part of the insidious effects of Woke.

    As far as they're concerned the issue isn't up for discussion.
    I have a couple of Gen Z juniors who have confided that they are glad our workplace isn't political and we don't have mandatory pronouns in emails or on slack. My generation is much more sceptical about it all than most realise, women in particular have benefited from second and third wave feminism winning them a lot of sex based rights and they aren't looking to give them up without a fight.

    I wouldn't make judgements on Gen Z based on what we see in the news or on social media. There's a big desire to conform but underneath that there's also a hugely diverse range of views. I think the only universal views I've ever heard from them is that landlords are all dickheads and old people are all selfish, usually including their own grandparents.
    It was thus in Ancient Athens. The old disappointed the young. The young disappointed the old.

    “….the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago.”
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    That much became obvious many years ago.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    Prostration to the Brexit purity is the only thing holding them together right now.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    ping said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Scary BBC science doc on the intimidation of COVID scientists;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct3b03

    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-science-hour/id634849863

    tldl; COVID was almost certainly zoonotic in origin.

    These ignorant thugs making threats need to be arrested.

    "Almost certainly"

    lol
    Yes.
    Polls say that in 90% of countries people now firmly believe it came from the lab. Why? Because, en masse, people are not stupid. This is the Wisdom of Crowds (a real thing, btw, hence Ask the Audience on the Millionaire Quiz Show)

    The world's first plague from a deadly new apparently-enhanced bat coronavirus came from a city which had the world's only BSL2-4 laboratory deliberately enhancing bat coronaviruses that might cause plagues? Er, OK, so it came from the lab

    It's that simple. Always was
    Believe whatever you want, @leon - I don’t care. Your claim that scientific truth can be established by asking people wot they recon in a poll is absurd.

    500 years ago a theoretical poll of all the people in the world would have shown the vast majority believed the sun moved around us. Science proved them wrong.

    The “wisdom of crowds” argument has some arguable validity in social science, and is particularly interesting in political polling, where the population are participants in establishing a truth (a numerical election outcome).

    It has no value in establishing the truth of the origins of Covid. For that, you need to ask scientists. And they pretty much all say, with a fair amount of confidence, that Covid was Zoonotic in origin.

    No, they don't. On the contrary, I think lab leak (unsurprisingly) is becoming the accepted consensus. Not sure where you're getting this from.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    It wouldn't get past the redwall Tory MPs and ERG anyway as it requires free movement.

    It would take a Labour government with a big majority to get it through, albeit admittedly that is now possible or in a deal with the LDs and SNP
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    What odds would you give on the SNP being the Official opposition?
    It's not completely inconceivable.

    The BQ were the official opposition on seats in Canada from 1993 to 1997 to the governing Liberals after the collapse of the Canadian Progressive Conservatives, though both the PCs and Reform won more votes than BQ
    The NDP have also been the opposition to the Conservatives this century.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    What odds would you give on the SNP being the Official opposition?
    It's not completely inconceivable.

    The BQ were the official opposition on seats in Canada from 1993 to 1997 to the governing Liberals after the collapse of the Canadian Progressive Conservatives, though both the PCs and Reform won more votes than BQ
    The NDP have also been the opposition to the Conservatives this century.
    Though the Liberals went from 3rd to 1st with a majority at the following election in 2015 with Trudeau
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DrkB said:

    Mark Dolan on woke

    Woke is a colossal negative force in modern society which I believe threatens to bring down the West.’ Mark Dolan gives his take on Meghan Markle saying the word ‘woke’ means ‘alert to injustice in society, especially racism.’


    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1594092691469455362?s=20&t=rWVlH8coR7drBwzgiQvsgA

    Well her definition is how some people use it (those who do not simultaneously deny that it is even a thing). People being alert isn't an issue, it's what actions you subsequently take that is an issue, and people will violently disagree about that, and whether people use woke as a synonym for good and bad to the point of degrading any meaning from it (much as in some quarters liberal or progressive simply means good or bad).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MPs have faced a mixture of “anger and disbelief” from local members over the Autumn Statement as backbenchers prepare to speak out in the Commons
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/11/20/tory-backbenchers-prepare-channel-grassroots-anger-autumn-statement/

    The same "local members" who thought Liz Truss to be the preferred PM?
    You might have thought they'd be for a period of quiet reflection.
    The Tory Party is finished if it continues to pander to them.
    Yes. The preferred choice to Rishi Sunak - we're now finding out why. Had there been a decent candidate, they might have voted for them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    What odds would you give on the SNP being the Official opposition?
    It's not completely inconceivable.

    The BQ were the official opposition on seats in Canada from 1993 to 1997 to the governing Liberals after the collapse of the Canadian Progressive Conservatives, though both the PCs and Reform won more votes than BQ
    The NDP have also been the opposition to the Conservatives this century.
    Though the Liberals went from 3rd to 1st with a majority at the following election in 2015 with Trudeau
    That's cos Justin's an evil genius, mind.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    The Economist:

    Is Britain* tiptoeing away from a medical scandal? Until recently, many gender specialists in the National Health Service (nhs) treated trans-identifying children by broadly following an “affirmative” approach which accepts patients’ self-diagnosis as the starting-point for treatment. That can mean the prescription of puberty blockers from early adolescence, followed by cross-sex hormones.

    But Britain* now appears to be changing tack…..


    * England - Scotland is carrying on regardless (of the Cass review, among others).

    https://archive.ph/2022.11.17-161454/https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/11/17/britain-changes-tack-in-its-treatment-of-trans-identifying-children

    Accepting with too much finality self diagnosis feels a bit like reversing the burden of proof in accepting as true the claims of those making allegations a la Operation Midland. Being accepting but cautious in any swift action seems reasonable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    It wouldn't get past the redwall Tory MPs and ERG anyway as it requires free movement.

    The sooner these ideological idiots are cast into outer darkness, the better for our country.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    Whether that was a common sense option or not, the problem remains a hard core (which do have a sizable areas of support among the public) who are just doing the DUP thing of saying no to everything, countering only with pie in the sky options or ones which do not have anywhere near majority support.

    It has long been the case that the most ardent project their Brexit as being the only real Brexit, with the result that even now, years after the act, we still have no agreed approach or direction.

    It was the realisation that we were a long way into May's negotiations and she did not even have agreement within her Cabinet about what to even ask for that finally broke my Brexit support.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    Nigel Farage in 2020:

    Switzerland was an "inspiration" for Brexit: "Switzerland has managed to maintain its sovereignty and independence and reach bilateral agreements with the EU. You managed to do it without being part of the EU, so did Norway."

    Nigel Farage now, November 2022, reacting to the latest leak:

    "This level of betrayal will never be forgiven."

    This guy can literally be bought to say what the buyer wants him to, just as Roger Scruton could be - in Farage's case at cameo.com.
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    Whether that was a common sense option or not, the problem remains a hard core (which do have a sizable areas of support among the public) who are just doing the DUP thing of saying no to everything, countering only with pie in the sky options or ones which do not have anywhere near majority support.

    It has long been the case that the most ardent project their Brexit as being the only real Brexit, with the result that even now, years after the act, we still have no agreed approach or direction.

    It was the realisation that we were a long way into May's negotiations and she did not even have agreement within her Cabinet about what to even ask for that finally broke my Brexit support.
    Bear in mind that especially after the Truss-Kwarteng fiasco the government wishes to look reasonable to educated markets. Having loons foaming at the mouth saying that agreeing a Swiss-type deal with the EU would be betrayal on a par with Robert Lundy's actions during the Siege of Derry is helpful to some extent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MPs have faced a mixture of “anger and disbelief” from local members over the Autumn Statement as backbenchers prepare to speak out in the Commons
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/11/20/tory-backbenchers-prepare-channel-grassroots-anger-autumn-statement/

    The same "local members" who thought Liz Truss to be the preferred PM?
    You might have thought they'd be for a period of quiet reflection.
    The Tory Party is finished if it continues to pander to them.
    Hunt/Sunak is just a different from of batshittery to Truss/Kwarteng.

    Each is conducting weird economic experiments on the population.

    I'd give Sunak and Hunt a chance. They haven't trashed market confidence.... yet.
    Just everyone elses.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MPs have faced a mixture of “anger and disbelief” from local members over the Autumn Statement as backbenchers prepare to speak out in the Commons
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/11/20/tory-backbenchers-prepare-channel-grassroots-anger-autumn-statement/

    The same "local members" who thought Liz Truss to be the preferred PM?
    You might have thought they'd be for a period of quiet reflection.
    The Tory Party is finished if it continues to pander to them.
    Yes. The preferred choice to Rishi Sunak - we're now finding out why. Had there been a decent candidate, they might have voted for them.
    Well indeed.
    Had the Tory Party had an answer they'd have come up with it by now.
  • DrkB said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    DrkB said:

    DrkB said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    to be fair this was pointless virtue signalling by england, im pretty sure many of the players would be uncomfortable with an openly gay player in the dressing room regardless of what they say.
    That's an interesting point actually.

    How much have attitudes really, seriously, changed and how much of it is just very strong social proof with actual tolerance only skin-deep?

    I'm not sure but, I suspect, it would easily return if the rules were different as fundamentally authoritarianism is buried deep within us.
    I actually think tolerance is only skin deep amongst many even in some younger people. People are natural herd animals and homosexuality has been presented very positively in the last 30 years. I always remember my friends at university saying they would think less of someone if they knew they were gay....not so long ago either
    I suppose it depends what you mean by skin deep. That they are pretending? Or that they believe they are tolerant, but push come to shove would react against?

    As I can easily believe some people are more uncomfortable in reality than they might admit, but in practice if they genuinely believe themselves tolerant, and act accordingly, what would then shift them to reveal an inner contrary opinion, even to themselves?

    And if it is largely about presentation and herd behaviour, for sake of argument, then within a general or two the tolerance will be ingrained and not skin deep anyway.
    I think everything fails, eventually, because every system possesses the seeds of its own decay. One day, liberal democracy will fail, and the executioner and torture chamber will return to Western Europe.

    Some of those regimes will persecute homosexuals.
    Agreed generally sexual freedom goes with widespread prosperity....can you imagine a nation of poor farmers obsessing about gay rights
    You think poor people, and farmers, are too poor and stupid to hold moral views? Nation of poor farmers is about the best 4 word summary of ancient Athens I can think of, and Plato was probably almost as clever as you are.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    Whether that was a common sense option or not, the problem remains a hard core (which do have a sizable areas of support among the public) who are just doing the DUP thing of saying no to everything, countering only with pie in the sky options or ones which do not have anywhere near majority support.

    It has long been the case that the most ardent project their Brexit as being the only real Brexit, with the result that even now, years after the act, we still have no agreed approach or direction.

    It was the realisation that we were a long way into May's negotiations and she did not even have agreement within her Cabinet about what to even ask for that finally broke my Brexit support.
    You supported Brexit?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    We should arrange a friendly with Qatar and send out our women's team

    Even Qatar would fucking hammer them. The gap in ability between mens and womens at that level is enormous. The Australian women (who are really good) got beat 7-0 by a U16 boys' team.
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    It wouldn't get past the redwall Tory MPs and ERG anyway as it requires free movement.

    It would take a Labour government with a big majority to get it through, albeit admittedly that is now possible or in a deal with the LDs and SNP
    Brexit vote was primarily about immigration not the rees mogg fantasy of singapore on thames. Of course in that view it has been a total failure as net migration has stayed as high as ever.
  • Lab Maj 2.25
    NOM 2.38
    Con Maj 6
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    I see Ivanka has said she will not be involved in any Trump second term.

    Which means he'll be relying on Eric and Don Jr.

    God help us.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    Whether that was a common sense option or not, the problem remains a hard core (which do have a sizable areas of support among the public) who are just doing the DUP thing of saying no to everything, countering only with pie in the sky options or ones which do not have anywhere near majority support.

    It has long been the case that the most ardent project their Brexit as being the only real Brexit, with the result that even now, years after the act, we still have no agreed approach or direction.

    It was the realisation that we were a long way into May's negotiations and she did not even have agreement within her Cabinet about what to even ask for that finally broke my Brexit support.
    You supported Brexit?
    I did. Although the dream of the EU is a fine one, its direction of travel was not one I was supportive of, and reform or even some kind of formalised two speed approach seemed improbable. Some disruption and pain was inevitable in an exit, but I hoped an exit would stir the EU to improve itself and the UK to seek some renewal.

    Subsequent events have shown that to be a forlorn hope which undoubtedly I should have predicted in advance, and after the failure to accept May's deal at the last (it still seemed better than seeking to reverse matters), I felt a second referendum was the best approach.

    Now I simply wish they'd concetrate on finalising whatever arrangements we are to have, rather than dither endlessly so they can use EU negotations as a distraction.
  • London
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    LD 14%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 41%
    Con 19%
    LD 15%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 10%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 46%
    Con 26%
    Grn 8%
    LD 7%
    Ref 6%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 59%
    Con 18%
    LD 7%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 48%
    Lab 30%
    Grn 7%
    Con 7%
    LD 5%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,331; 18 November)

    That Rest of the South Con figure os startling.
    I somehow find it unlikely that Labour enjoys a smaller lead in London than in the Rest of the South!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    DrkB said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    Ridiculous that the first glimmer of some common sense on Brexit and now senior Tories are falling over themselves to rubbish the idea. They don’t seem to give a xxxx about the damage their ideological obsession is doing in the real world.
    It wouldn't get past the redwall Tory MPs and ERG anyway as it requires free movement.

    It would take a Labour government with a big majority to get it through, albeit admittedly that is now possible or in a deal with the LDs and SNP
    Brexit vote was primarily about immigration not the rees mogg fantasy of singapore on thames. Of course in that view it has been a total failure as net migration has stayed as high as ever.
    EU migration to the UK has fallen even if non EU migration to the UK has not. Both are now dealt with under the same points system

    https://www.ft.com/content/cf6f2e06-b8c1-4113-8889-de1c3132cbb2
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    rcs1000 said:

    I see Ivanka has said she will not be involved in any Trump second term.

    Which means he'll be relying on Eric and Don Jr.

    God help us.

    Maybe Barron be a better prospect as an adviser.
  • novanova Posts: 692
    Dura_Ace said:

    We should arrange a friendly with Qatar and send out our women's team

    Even Qatar would fucking hammer them. The gap in ability between mens and womens at that level is enormous. The Australian women (who are really good) got beat 7-0 by a U16 boys' team.
    There's a little more to it - it was a makeshift women's side playing to get a bit of fitness. They were the players based in Australia, which I believe still has an amateur league.

    But it's also not surprising - quality wise the number of women playing means the boys are coming from a much bigger pool of players and they'll have likely had pro coaching since an early age.

    But the main difference will be physical. Fifteen year old male athletes are likely faster, stronger, bigger and more powerful than a group of amateur women footballers, and would likely be able to run rings round them, whatever the levels of skill.

    England women will still be selected from a relatively small pool, but many will at least have played full time and had pro-coaching as adults. Even over the last decade, the difference in the physique of many of the top players has been huge as they moved to full time pros. Even then, the physical differences are likely to be far too much to overcome.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    So wear it anyway.

    Imagine FIFA kicking England out for that but letting Qatar and Iran play …

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    So wear it anyway.

    Imagine FIFA kicking England out for that but letting Qatar and Iran play …
    You underestimate FIFA

    Not at all. I have no doubt that is the route they would choose.

    I will be disappointed when we get mealy mouthed expression of support but no action from the US and European countries
    I'd be entirely unsurprised. Those countries would see our departure as increasing the chance of them lifting the crown.

    Europe (and the US, Canada, etc.) need to get together and create a non-corrupt new governing body for football.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited November 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    So wear it anyway.

    Imagine FIFA kicking England out for that but letting Qatar and Iran play …

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    So wear it anyway.

    Imagine FIFA kicking England out for that but letting Qatar and Iran play …
    You underestimate FIFA

    Not at all. I have no doubt that is the route they would choose.

    I will be disappointed when we get mealy mouthed expression of support but no action from the US and European countries
    I'd be entirely unsurprised. Those countries would see our departure as increasing the chance of them lifting the crown.

    Europe (and the US, Canada, etc.) need to get together and create a non-corrupt new governing body for football.
    Has there ever been such a thing as a non-corrupt governing body for football? Some things just naturally go together.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Miatta Fahnbulleh selected as Labour candidate for Camberwell & Peckham to replace Harriet Harman.

    https://twitter.com/Miatsf/status/1594001349313957888
  • Leon said:

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    BAXTERED:


    Labour: 511
    Tories: 55


    Interestingly, the Tories would STILL be the Opposition because the SNP on 3% would fall to about 35 seats
    Hmm. Would someone who knows Scottish politics and isn't too invested in independence either way (are there such people) comment on whether the SNP grip is in fact weakening and Labour is picking up? - perhaps related to the issues in Cyclefree's leader, or general tiredness, or...? Or is it just random variation? If Labour was making real inroads in Scotland, that would drastically change the odds on a Labour majority.

    Incidentally, we have a local by-election in a Tory ward and I've been doing some phone canvassing. Tories under pressure, but there are still lots who are quite unhesitatingly Tory. I can well believe that there's a floor of 20-25%.
    There have already been several Scotland-wide polls in recent weeks putting Labour in the 30% - 32% range. In addition, an MRP poll has suggested that Labour would win 15 seats there.
  • Leon said:

    Sunak bounce continues as latest Deltapoll shows Labour lead shrinking from 23% to, er 26%, oh...

    Conservative 25
    Labour 51
    Liberal Democrat 9
    UK Independence Party (UKIP) 2
    Reform UK 4
    Scottish National Party (SNP) 3
    Plaid Cymru (PC) 0
    Green 4
    Some other party 2


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Deltapoll-221119_voteint.pdf

    BAXTERED:


    Labour: 511
    Tories: 55


    Interestingly, the Tories would STILL be the Opposition because the SNP on 3% would fall to about 35 seats
    Hmm. Would someone who knows Scottish politics and isn't too invested in independence either way (are there such people) comment on whether the SNP grip is in fact weakening and Labour is picking up? - perhaps related to the issues in Cyclefree's leader, or general tiredness, or...? Or is it just random variation? If Labour was making real inroads in Scotland, that would drastically change the odds on a Labour majority.

    Incidentally, we have a local by-election in a Tory ward and I've been doing some phone canvassing. Tories under pressure, but there are still lots who are quite unhesitatingly Tory. I can well believe that there's a floor of 20-25%.
    SLab are definitely on the up-tick, but unfortunately for Sarwar and Starmer, the gained votes are coming straight from the other Unionist parties. Your team are making zero impact on SNP support.

    In order to gain seats SLab needs *two* things:

    1. SLab VI north of 30%
    2. SNP VI south of 40%

    1. looks do-able
    2. doesn’t
    2. happened in 2017 when the SNP polled below 37%.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    = either from Sunak or Hunt
    Swiss-style deal could mean anything, though.

    Does it mean we'll have a hundred individual agreements, that will be being constantly renegotiated?

    Or does it mean that we'll have a similar to EEA arrangement?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    So wear it anyway.

    Imagine FIFA kicking England out for that but letting Qatar and Iran play …

    Scott_xP said:

    Fifa have banned Harry Kane and England from wearing the 'OneLove' armband at World Cup.

    ✍️ @SamWallaceTel and @JBurtTelegraph

    #TelegraphFootball #FIFAWorldCup

    So wear it anyway.

    Imagine FIFA kicking England out for that but letting Qatar and Iran play …
    You underestimate FIFA

    Not at all. I have no doubt that is the route they would choose.

    I will be disappointed when we get mealy mouthed expression of support but no action from the US and European countries
    I'd be entirely unsurprised. Those countries would see our departure as increasing the chance of them lifting the crown.

    Europe (and the US, Canada, etc.) need to get together and create a non-corrupt new governing body for football.
    Has there ever been such a thing as a non-corrupt governing body for football? Some things just naturally go together.
    False equivalency. The FA is not perfect but it's night and day compared to FIFA.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    nova said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    We should arrange a friendly with Qatar and send out our women's team

    Even Qatar would fucking hammer them. The gap in ability between mens and womens at that level is enormous. The Australian women (who are really good) got beat 7-0 by a U16 boys' team.
    There's a little more to it - it was a makeshift women's side playing to get a bit of fitness. They were the players based in Australia, which I believe still has an amateur league.

    But it's also not surprising - quality wise the number of women playing means the boys are coming from a much bigger pool of players and they'll have likely had pro coaching since an early age.

    But the main difference will be physical. Fifteen year old male athletes are likely faster, stronger, bigger and more powerful than a group of amateur women footballers, and would likely be able to run rings round them, whatever the levels of skill.

    England women will still be selected from a relatively small pool, but many will at least have played full time and had pro-coaching as adults. Even over the last decade, the difference in the physique of many of the top players has been huge as they moved to full time pros. Even then, the physical differences are likely to be far too much to overcome.
    The average 70 year old man is stronger than the average 25 year old woman. You have one sex that has evolved for hunting and fighting and another that has evolved to rear children. Intelligence is equally beneficial to both, but ability at other physical feats is massive.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I see we are still citing subsamples.

    It’s a fool’s errand and a dangerous game to play.

    Just ask Stuart Dickson.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    = either from Sunak or Hunt
    Swiss-style deal could mean anything, though.

    Does it mean we'll have a hundred individual agreements, that will be being constantly renegotiated?

    Or does it mean that we'll have a similar to EEA arrangement?
    My guess is that whatever is done to fix the NI protocol will involve some provisions which apply to the whole UK e.g some halfway house between equivalence and dynamic alignment on food standards. Of course, if that involves even the teensiest role for the ECJ, the ERG will explode.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    kle4 said:

    The Economist:

    Is Britain* tiptoeing away from a medical scandal? Until recently, many gender specialists in the National Health Service (nhs) treated trans-identifying children by broadly following an “affirmative” approach which accepts patients’ self-diagnosis as the starting-point for treatment. That can mean the prescription of puberty blockers from early adolescence, followed by cross-sex hormones.

    But Britain* now appears to be changing tack…..


    * England - Scotland is carrying on regardless (of the Cass review, among others).

    https://archive.ph/2022.11.17-161454/https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/11/17/britain-changes-tack-in-its-treatment-of-trans-identifying-children

    Accepting with too much finality self diagnosis feels a bit like reversing the burden of proof in accepting as true the claims of those making allegations a la Operation Midland. Being accepting but cautious in any swift action seems reasonable.
    Though with a 2 year or more waiting list to be seen at the Tavistock, it would hardly be a fleeting phase. Also treatment under age 16 requires at least a degree of parental involvement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    England 1.33 for the win looks rather too short to me. Iran are a decent side and could be a banana skin.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    The Economist:

    Is Britain* tiptoeing away from a medical scandal? Until recently, many gender specialists in the National Health Service (nhs) treated trans-identifying children by broadly following an “affirmative” approach which accepts patients’ self-diagnosis as the starting-point for treatment. That can mean the prescription of puberty blockers from early adolescence, followed by cross-sex hormones.

    But Britain* now appears to be changing tack…..


    * England - Scotland is carrying on regardless (of the Cass review, among others).

    https://archive.ph/2022.11.17-161454/https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/11/17/britain-changes-tack-in-its-treatment-of-trans-identifying-children

    Accepting with too much finality self diagnosis feels a bit like reversing the burden of proof in accepting as true the claims of those making allegations a la Operation Midland. Being accepting but cautious in any swift action seems reasonable.
    Though with a 2 year or more waiting list to be seen at the Tavistock, it would hardly be a fleeting phase. Also treatment under age 16 requires at least a degree of parental involvement.
    And should certainly remain so at the least.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sunday Times pol ed @cazjwheeler strongly stands by the paper’s front page story which revealed the govt could seek a Swiss-style deal with the EU. Barclay tried to knock down the story.

    Wheeler tells the Westminster Hour: “I can assure your listeners it was impeccably sourced”

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1594462317588406272

    = either from Sunak or Hunt
    Swiss-style deal could mean anything, though.

    Does it mean we'll have a hundred individual agreements, that will be being constantly renegotiated?

    Or does it mean that we'll have a similar to EEA arrangement?
    My guess is that whatever is done to fix the NI protocol will involve some provisions which apply to the whole UK e.g some halfway house between equivalence and dynamic alignment on food standards. Of course, if that involves even the teensiest role for the ECJ, the ERG will explode.
    ECJ making calls over stuff in Northern Ireland acceptable. Restoring their power over the whole UK is unacceptable.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:

    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960

    He’s got a point. Turned on at 3pm assuming the opening ceremony would be on, only to find it had just finished. Weird. Qatar’s hosting is a disgrace, it should never have happened. But, as we have agreed to be involved in it, we should cover the whole thing openly, and criticise openly whenever justified.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    They did broadcast it. We don't live in a single channel era anymore but dinosaurs like Morgan don't know how to operate the remote.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited November 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960

    This from a man who is flying to Qatar to provide punditry for Fox Sports.

    Their coverage is sponsored by Qatar Airways, and it showed today. It's not been without controversy even in the US, with this article praising the BBC's coverage.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/fox-sports-fifa-world-cup-qatar-coverage-video-reaction-human-rights
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited November 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960

    He’s got a point. Turned on at 3pm assuming the opening ceremony would be on, only to find it had just finished. Weird. Qatar’s hosting is a disgrace, it should never have happened. But, as we have agreed to be involved in it, we should cover the whole thing openly, and criticise openly whenever justified.
    Today's Sunday Times front page reported that they've got Bangladeshis pretending to be Argentina fans walking around waving the flag of that country. It's like something from an alternative universe.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited November 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960

    He’s got a point. Turned on at 3pm assuming the opening ceremony would be on, only to find it had just finished. Weird. Qatar’s hosting is a disgrace, it should never have happened. But, as we have agreed to be involved in it, we should cover the whole thing openly, and criticise openly whenever justified.
    The BBC did the same during Euro 2020 last year. I remember the main channel was showing punditry and the opening ceremony was on the iPlayer.

    To be fair, the opening ceremonies of big football tournaments and finals are pretty naff in comparison to the Olympics and Commonwealth Games. Think back to May and that terrible Camila Cabello performance prior to the Champions League final.

    It wouldn't have added much and it gave the BBC a chance to address the elephant in the room right away so they could concentrate on the football a bit more afterwards.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    FIFA are implying they will book Harry Kane and other European captain for wearing an armband that he has worn for the last three games, purely because the rainbow element of it suggests support for gay people. This will be disgusting if it happens. I hope the England fans immediately boo the referee if it happens and then start "the referee's a wanker" chants for the whole game.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited November 2022
    WillG said:

    FIFA are implying they will book Harry Kane and other European captain for wearing an armband that he has worn for the last three games, purely because the rainbow element of it suggests support for gay people. This will be disgusting if it happens. I hope the England fans immediately boo the referee if it happens and then start "the referee's a wanker" chants for the whole game.

    Do we know which country the referee is from?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Andy_JS said:

    WillG said:

    FIFA are implying they will book Harry Kane and other European captain for wearing an armband that he has worn for the last three games, purely because the rainbow element of it suggests support for gay people. This will be disgusting if it happens. I hope the England fans immediately boo the referee if it happens and then start "the referee's a wanker" chants for the whole game.

    Do we know which country the referee is from?
    The Ref is Raphael Claus from Brazil
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?

    It'd be an interesting technical experiment.

    But: what does PB gain? what do you gain? Do you expect to get more users? Threaded conversations?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?

    It'd be an interesting technical experiment.

    But: what does PB gain? what do you gain? Do you expect to get more users? Threaded conversations?
    I enjoy the technical challenge.

    That's about it, really.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Off-topic:

    Just had an (ahem) 'interesting' weekend: the sort of weekend that you're glad everyone's come out of alive and (relatively) sane.

    Started off with damaging Mrs J's car on Friday night when I hit a deer whilst driving my son back from an event, and went downhill from there... :(

    Now I've got an insurance claim to deal with, and hopefully a little quieter time...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Off-topic:

    Just had an (ahem) 'interesting' weekend: the sort of weekend that you're glad everyone's come out of alive and (relatively) sane.

    Started off with damaging Mrs J's car on Friday night when I hit a deer whilst driving my son back from an event, and went downhill from there... :(

    Now I've got an insurance claim to deal with, and hopefully a little quieter time...

    Venison for supper: lovely.

  • Nearly half of young people believe Britain is structurally racist


    "Almost half of young people believe that Britain was founded on racism and is still “structurally racist”, a study says.

    Research by Eric Kaufmann, an academic at Birkbeck, University of London, for the think tank Policy Exchange, raised concerns that children are being taught contested ideas as fact.

    Six in ten school-leavers said they had been taught concepts associated with “critical race theory”.

    According to polling by YouGov, 18 to 24-year-olds is the only age group that believe schools should “teach students that Britain was founded on racism and remains structurally racist today”. The age group supported the statement by a majority of 42 to 25. Adults rejected it by 53 per cent to 24 per cent."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nearly-half-of-young-people-believe-britain-is-structurally-racist-6ljcdfbtc
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    BTW, in nearly thirty years of driving, this will be the first insurance claim I've ever had to make, of any kind. Car or house. Is that unusual?

    Also, any tips on dealing with insurance companies? Dos and don'ts ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    As expected: John Oliver vs the World Cup.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xkq7f1zqLXc
  • Interesting. I suspect we are going to see more of this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?

    It is, apparently, very easy to fake accounts in Mastodon, thanks to its decentralised nature.
    You might want to look into that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    edited November 2022
    Interesting article, which sets out how the Republicans are (with a few honourable exceptions) still following Trump's lead in attacking the institutions of law enforcement.

    Column: The GOP wants to burn down the Justice Department
    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-11-20/jack-smith-merrick-garland-justice-department-special-counsel
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    BTW, in nearly thirty years of driving, this will be the first insurance claim I've ever had to make, of any kind. Car or house. Is that unusual?

    Also, any tips on dealing with insurance companies? Dos and don'ts ?

    You have to threaten to lawyer up frequently in my experience. But I am basically "uninsurable" as a policyholder so they probably wipe their arses with my claims on Mrs DA's policy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    rcs1000 said:

    Off-topic:

    Just had an (ahem) 'interesting' weekend: the sort of weekend that you're glad everyone's come out of alive and (relatively) sane.

    Started off with damaging Mrs J's car on Friday night when I hit a deer whilst driving my son back from an event, and went downhill from there... :(

    Now I've got an insurance claim to deal with, and hopefully a little quieter time...

    Venison for supper: lovely.
    That would really have impressed Mrs J (a pescatarian):

    "Hi dear, I've some bad news. I've knackered your car. But on the positive side, how do you feel like gutting and skinning a Muntjac?"
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    RH1992 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960

    This from a man who is flying to Qatar to provide punditry for Fox Sports.

    Their coverage is sponsored by Qatar Airways, and it showed today. It's not been without controversy even in the US, with this article praising the BBC's coverage.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/fox-sports-fifa-world-cup-qatar-coverage-video-reaction-human-rights
    Yes, but if he thinks Qatar is wonderful you can't accuse him of hypocrisy.

    Of course he can't quite say as much, but droning on about "virtue-signalling" allows people to be effective apologists for bigotry without actually "coming out" as bigots, in much the same way as droning on about "political correctness" used to do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    rcs1000 said:

    Off-topic:

    Just had an (ahem) 'interesting' weekend: the sort of weekend that you're glad everyone's come out of alive and (relatively) sane.

    Started off with damaging Mrs J's car on Friday night when I hit a deer whilst driving my son back from an event, and went downhill from there... :(

    Now I've got an insurance claim to deal with, and hopefully a little quieter time...

    Venison for supper: lovely.
    That would really have impressed Mrs J (a pescatarian):

    "Hi dear, I've some bad news. I've knackered your car. But on the positive side, how do you feel like gutting and skinning a Muntjac?"
    If she was annoyed, you'd get a roe instead.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    To switch to different Scottish news, the BBC lead story on NHS Scotland’s radical ideas to cope with shortages is surprising and challenging: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    RH1992 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan

    Outrageously disrespectful to Qatar that the BBC didn’t broadcast the World Cup opening ceremony, and instead put out more virtue-signalling guff about how awful it is. If they’re that appalled, they should bring home their vast army of employees & spare us this absurd hypocrisy."

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1594380221356072960

    This from a man who is flying to Qatar to provide punditry for Fox Sports.

    Their coverage is sponsored by Qatar Airways, and it showed today. It's not been without controversy even in the US, with this article praising the BBC's coverage.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/fox-sports-fifa-world-cup-qatar-coverage-video-reaction-human-rights
    Is there any chance we could persuade him to stay there?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    To switch to different Scottish news, the BBC lead story on NHS Scotland’s radical ideas to cope with shortages is surprising and challenging: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754

    Yes, I saw that. 'Explosive' might be an appropriate word as well.

    I see the egregious Mr Yousaf has already hurriedly moved to squash it.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?

    So effectively there will be a Mastodon bot account republishing vanilla comments?

    How are you going to deal with the reply element? You'll probably want to strip it from the Mastodon end for the character limit, but threading will be difficult to reconstruct, either way, won't it?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Interesting. I suspect we are going to see more of this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754

    The political campaigning leap to 'The SNP will abolish the NHS in an independent Scotland' is not a big one.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    mwadams said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?

    So effectively there will be a Mastodon bot account republishing vanilla comments?

    How are you going to deal with the reply element? You'll probably want to strip it from the Mastodon end for the character limit, but threading will be difficult to reconstruct, either way, won't it?
    (BTW, personally, I imagine it'd be good to interact with PB through Mastodon; you'd gain some features over there that vanilla doesn't have.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    Interesting. I suspect we are going to see more of this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754

    IMO the fundamental principle of the NHS is "free at the point of use." This has been somewhat stretched - e.g. prescription costs, dentists, opticians - but it's still mostly there.

    This utterly removes it. The cultish religion of the NHS will be protected at all costs, even if 'free at the point of use' disappears.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Interesting. I suspect we are going to see more of this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754

    The political campaigning leap to 'The SNP will abolish the NHS in an independent Scotland' is not a big one.
    It's sort of happening by natural selection anyway.

    I increasingly hear of those who can afford it paying £170 to see a private GP because the NHS is so useless.

    I'm always told to "phone the surgery" - why can't I email or forward book? - but I can't get through and, even if I do, no-one picks up the phone.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    mwadams said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    I'm thinking of doing something very silly.

    I'm going to create a pb Mastadon server. And then I'll set up automatic cross-posting.

    Write something on PB, it'll appear on the PB Mastadon server.
    Write something on the PB Mastadon server, it will automatically cross post past to PB.

    What do you guys think?

    So effectively there will be a Mastodon bot account republishing vanilla comments?

    How are you going to deal with the reply element? You'll probably want to strip it from the Mastodon end for the character limit, but threading will be difficult to reconstruct, either way, won't it?
    Not really - if you follow everyone on the server it the thread will be complete

    Also it means that we can ignore posters that we don't particularly wish to read - for instance Leon on his rant days.
This discussion has been closed.