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Why Boris might not be the answer for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Someone was asking yesterday about how Trump would play the next year or so in terms of grabbing as much cash as possible.

    Trump just sent out a fundraising email for Herschel Walker that says “Contribute ANY AMOUNT IMMEDIATELY to the Official Georgia Runoff Fundraising Goal and increase your impact by 1200%” and then auto-defaults to splitting your donation 90% to Trump and 10% to Herschel Walker.…
    https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1591518319143780352

    The earlier Arizona fundraising emails gave 95c in the dollar to Trump’s rather dishonestly named “Save America” fund.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the crickets should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullevan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    Team of the year isn't a public vote. The BBC will certainly give it to the women's footballers.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?
    marketIds=1.192647553
    Surely the women’s footballers will win team of the year?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    They are a load of Hindu nationalist nonsense.
    Aside from noting that the total is given for thirteen centuries, it’s absurd to term what were wars between states of multiple kinds, over many centuries, as an ‘islamic genocide’ of Hindus.
    And accepting at face value casualty figures from so long ago is pitiful history.

    I’d also note that the mainly Hindu population of India grew at a historically unprecedented rate under Mughal rule.
    Professor Lal's fault is anachronism. He's trying to project Hindu nationalism back into a world in which it did not exist.

    Babur was an intellectual who wrote poetry, painted miniatures, and wrote his autobiography. He himself records building "towers of skulls" of defeated opponents. But, towers of skulls were standard operating practice for any steppe conqueror. Genghis Khan and his successors, and Timur, likewise built towers of skulls. The reason was this. You gave your enemies the option: surrender and live, resist and face total destruction.

    The Ottomans, Persians, North African corsairs, Spanish and other European rulers were equally brutal at the time, if less flamboyant. And, we can be quite sure that Hindu rulers were no nicer towards defeated enemies than Muslim rulers were.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    I think it still goes to the women's football team winning the Euros in England.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    If they need to be in protective solitary custody then that should be an option as it should for anyone else who needs protective solitary custody.

    What should not be an option is violating safeguarding where single set exists.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    They could - you know - just not wear women's clothes. Presumably having to wear prison uniform would take the transiness out of the equation.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited November 2022

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A sad old person bewildered in a wilderness of their own creation.
    If most people don't care, why is it such a threat to you for it to be discussed?
  • Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A sad old person bewildered in a wilderness of their own creation.
    How people wish to assign their gender - not remotely an issue.

    How people engage in safeguarding - a potentially life or death issue.

    If its such a non issue you'll have no objection to Carlotta getting her way and ensuring safeguarding of single sex areas remains secure?

    Or you're lying and you do think it's an issue and want to violate single sex safeguarding as it's such a major issue for you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Nigelb said:

    Someone was asking yesterday about how Trump would play the next year or so in terms of grabbing as much cash as possible.

    Trump just sent out a fundraising email for Herschel Walker that says “Contribute ANY AMOUNT IMMEDIATELY to the Official Georgia Runoff Fundraising Goal and increase your impact by 1200%” and then auto-defaults to splitting your donation 90% to Trump and 10% to Herschel Walker.…
    https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1591518319143780352

    The earlier Arizona fundraising emails gave 95c in the dollar to Trump’s rather dishonestly named “Save America” fund.

    Shameless stuff. If he were really as rich as he claims would he need to money grub like that? I know super rich people tend to want more even if they have more than they could ever spend, but it's just undignified (not that he cares about that)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    Heathener said:

    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
    Obviously it would be more accurate if you had the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties, but in the absence of that, this is the best I can do.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    I think it still goes to the women's football team winning the Euros in England.
    Yes, without taking a view on which waz the bigger achievment, the womens football was much higher profile than the mens 2020. Most of my family wereunaware the 2020 was on. Hell, I love cricket, and I didn't join the game until the third over.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2022
    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    I think it still goes to the women's football team winning the Euros in England.
    Yes, without taking a view on which waz the bigger achievment, the womens football was much higher profile than the mens 2020. Most of my family wereunaware the 2020 was on. Hell, I love cricket, and I didn't join the game until the third over.
    Ah okay, maybe my expat mind missed the women’s football then. Was it on BBC?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    I think it still goes to the women's football team winning the Euros in England.
    Yes, without taking a view on which waz the bigger achievment, the womens football was much higher profile than the mens 2020. Most of my family wereunaware the 2020 was on. Hell, I love cricket, and I didn't join the game until the third over.
    BBC News didn't even send a push notification at the end of the game today.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    13% not sure though who will determine the outcome and 35% for Trump and less than 10% lead for DeSantis more than enough for a long and divisive GOP primary battle in 2024.

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    I think it still goes to the women's football team winning the Euros in England.
    Yes, without taking a view on which waz the bigger achievment, the womens football was much higher profile than the mens 2020. Most of my family wereunaware the 2020 was on. Hell, I love cricket, and I didn't join the game until the third over.
    Ah okay, maybe my expat mind missed the women’s football then. Was it on BBC?
    Yes, and endlessly promoted by them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    So the potential Republicans, the floating voters, are more than 2/1 in favour of the Florida governor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
  • kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    The problem with getting support from "leaners" and other people who may not be very MAGA is that they won't be limited to those two options.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2022
    Heathener said:

    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
    It was extremely painful to see people go against my call for Masto.

    It felt like a personal insult.
  • HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    That's called "preaching to the choir".

    I'd pay more attention to the "Republican Leaners" numbers.

    Of course the former could get Trump the nomination, while the latter lose him the election.
  • On the midterms impact on SCOTUS:

    There is no obvious vacancy in the next 2 years. Thomas and Alito are 74 and 72 respectively so in all likelihood have some years in them yet. There may be some talk around election year of Sotomayor retiring and allowing a younger liberal justice to take her place - but at 68 now, that is not a straightforward decision.

    Far more impactful will be Biden’s ability to nominate lower court justices without too much trouble.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    13% not sure though who will determine the outcome and 35% for Trump and less than 10% lead for DeSantis more than enough for a long and divisive GOP primary battle in 2024.

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    In the end, I expect that the Republicans will want a winner. Trump is a loser, the worst thing possible in his eyes, and as an independent, he would be a very distant third place loser.
  • HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    That's called "preaching to the choir".

    I'd pay more attention to the "Republican Leaners" numbers.

    Of course the former could get Trump the nomination, while the latter lose him the election.
    The key polling should be on Fox viewers. If Fox ditch Trump that would make it very tough for him, if they give him a platform again, he can take down his rivals including De Santis imo.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
    But even that is very close. It's not as though they dislike DeSantis. If he got the nomination, and they like DeSantis, why would they go elsewhere?

    After all, if someone is a 'strong Republican' yet they would vote someone else if their preferred candidate does not get it, they aren't really a strong Republican, are they?

    It being close suggests they'd roll in behind DeSantis if he got the nomination, and would not rally behind Trump. Just as most strong Republicans will have voted Trump even though they wanted someone else.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
    But even that is very close. It's not as though they dislike DeSantis. If he got the nomination, and they like DeSantis, why would they go elsewhere?

    After all, if someone is a 'strong Republican' yet they would vote someone else if their preferred candidate does not get it, they aren't really a strong Republican, are they?

    It being close suggests they'd roll in behind DeSantis if he got the nomination, and would not rally behind Trump. Just as most strong Republicans will have voted Trump even though they wanted someone else.
    De Santis offers strong Republicans most of what they want. If he looks like a winner, and Trump does not, they'll favour De Santis.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
    But even that is very close. It's not as though they dislike DeSantis. If he got the nomination, and they like DeSantis, why would they go elsewhere?

    After all, if someone is a 'strong Republican' yet they would vote someone else if their preferred candidate does not get it, they aren't really a strong Republican, are they?

    It being close suggests they'd roll in behind DeSantis if he got the nomination, and would not rally behind Trump. Just as most strong Republicans will have voted Trump even though they wanted someone else.
    How do you know strong Republicans don't dislike DeSantis? Clearly more of them prefer Trump to DeSantis than not and if Trump ran as an Independent a large number of them would likely follow him.

    Even if most of them voted for DeSantis in the end just 5 to 10% for an Independent Trump would be enough to re elect Biden or elect whoever the Democrats candidate is if it is not Biden.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Driver said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A sad old person bewildered in a wilderness of their own creation.
    If most people don't care, why is it such a threat to you for it to be discussed?
    Coz CV posts shit about it 1000 times/day without any commentary, insight or analysis. It's worse than when we were getting thrice daily updates about cyclefree's daughter and her stupid fucking money pit pub.
  • On the midterms impact on SCOTUS:

    There is no obvious vacancy in the next 2 years. Thomas and Alito are 74 and 72 respectively so in all likelihood have some years in them yet. There may be some talk around election year of Sotomayor retiring and allowing a younger liberal justice to take her place - but at 68 now, that is not a straightforward decision.

    Far more impactful will be Biden’s ability to nominate lower court justices without too much trouble.

    Thomas should be impeached but of course there are not the numbers for that to happen.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Dems looking good to win AZ Gov now. The ballot dump from Maricopa barely put a dent in Hobbs’ lead.

    K. Lake tweets -

    "We're very confident that these counts are going to start going heavily our way and we will win this. I assure the people of Arizona we will fix our elections."

    I do like the last bit. Just tell it like it is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    13% not sure though who will determine the outcome and 35% for Trump and less than 10% lead for DeSantis more than enough for a long and divisive GOP primary battle in 2024.

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    In the end, I expect that the Republicans will want a winner. Trump is a loser, the worst thing possible in his eyes, and as an independent, he would be a very distant third place loser.
    Trump would prefer the Democrats to win the Presidential election if he loses the nomination. Trump running as an Independent helps achieve that. That way he can get back control of the party and tell the GOP establishment he told them so.

    Similarly a Starmer win is better for Boris than a Sunak win if he retains his seat or gets a safer seat and wants to try to lead the party again in opposition
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
    But even that is very close. It's not as though they dislike DeSantis. If he got the nomination, and they like DeSantis, why would they go elsewhere?

    After all, if someone is a 'strong Republican' yet they would vote someone else if their preferred candidate does not get it, they aren't really a strong Republican, are they?

    It being close suggests they'd roll in behind DeSantis if he got the nomination, and would not rally behind Trump. Just as most strong Republicans will have voted Trump even though they wanted someone else.
    How do you know strong Republicans don't dislike DeSantis?
    ...because I have eyes? The chart shows it's very nearly a dead heat between DeSantis and Trump amongst strong Republicans, with Trump just edging it. If he was disliked that figure would not be close - remember how you banged on about Sunak's ratings vs Truss's, correctly noting not as many liked Sunak?

    As you are a self proclaimed party loyalist I find your general position of being really eager to believe other loyalists will abandon a party to be a little odd - you've long felt that was the case with the Tories as well, talking up people leaving to go with Boris were he to leave the party.

    Which some might, but loyalists? You're a loyalist, why do you think so little of other loyalists?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    Well you don't have to look far. Just read his Wikipedia page and there are lots of references of others calling him out on his later works. Some very strongly. You can't pick and choose your internet sources.
    Professor Jeremy Black formerly of Exeter University and now at the US Foreign Policy Institute regards Lal as a good scholar only considered rightwing by Indian Muslim Marxist historians, which says something

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=AiZtAgAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._S._Lal

    There you go again, selectively quoting from the internet. How about all the others historians there calling him out in very strong language for him publishing nonsense. Most with remarkable non Muslim sounding names, just to put a lie to the quote from Black.

    You have to stop posting selectively from the internet. It must be obvious to you that you are being partial.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Alistair said:

    Heathener said:

    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
    It was extremely painful to see people go against my call for Masto.

    It felt like a personal insult.
    What price was she when you made your 10k win call?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    On the midterms impact on SCOTUS:

    There is no obvious vacancy in the next 2 years. Thomas and Alito are 74 and 72 respectively so in all likelihood have some years in them yet. There may be some talk around election year of Sotomayor retiring and allowing a younger liberal justice to take her place - but at 68 now, that is not a straightforward decision.

    Far more impactful will be Biden’s ability to nominate lower court justices without too much trouble.

    If the Democrats want to work on the Supreme Court, they’ll persuade Sonia Sotamayor to retire on her 70th birthday, and take a look look at how they can get Elena Kagan to stand down after 13 or 14 year on the Court.

    Some of the extremes of the party will suggest stuffing the Court, which they must know is a really bad idea in the medium term, because every President who controls the Senate will do the same in future.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    13% not sure though who will determine the outcome and 35% for Trump and less than 10% lead for DeSantis more than enough for a long and divisive GOP primary battle in 2024.

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    In the end, I expect that the Republicans will want a winner. Trump is a loser, the worst thing possible in his eyes, and as an independent, he would be a very distant third place loser.
    Loser worse than off the media grid? - I'm not so sure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited November 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Driver said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A sad old person bewildered in a wilderness of their own creation.
    If most people don't care, why is it such a threat to you for it to be discussed?
    Coz CV posts shit about it 1000 times/day without any commentary, insight or analysis. It's worse than when we were getting thrice daily updates about cyclefree's daughter and her stupid fucking money pit pub.
    Hyperbolic descriptions are alright though I guess? Unless its someone exagerrating one of our own posts presumably.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    kle4 said:

    le

    Dura_Ace said:

    Driver said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A sad old person bewildered in a wilderness of their own creation.
    If most people don't care, why is it such a threat to you for it to be discussed?
    Coz CV posts shit about it 1000 times/day without any commentary, insight or analysis. It's worse than when we were getting thrice daily updates about cyclefree's daughter and her stupid fucking money pit pub.
    Hyperbolic posts are alright though I guess?
    That counts as commentary.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    There's a lot wrong with that article in detail.

    There's simply no way that Indian armies could have numbered in the hundreds of thousands, even millions, in Alexander's time. No state had the means to field armies of that size, and any attempt to do so would have resulted in their starving to death. When ancient historians say "a million soldiers", they mean "a very big number". You see the same with Herodotus or the Old Testament.

    As for the big drop in Indian population after 1300, the most obvious explanation for it is bubonic plague.

    None of which conflicts with the view that 14th, 15th, 16th century Indian rulers could be very brutal, like their Middle eastern and European counterparts.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    There's a lot wrong with that article in detail.

    There's simply no way that Indian armies could have numbered in the hundreds of thousands, even millions, in Alexander's time. No state had the means to field armies of that size, and any attempt to do so would have resulted in their starving to death. When ancient historians say "a million soldiers", they mean "a very big number". You see the same with Herodotus or the Old Testament.

    As for the big drop in Indian population after 1300, the most obvious explanation for it is bubonic plague.
    I must admit my reaction to HYUFD frothing about pyramids was to reflect that you only need 4 skulls to make a pyramid. Pyramids of skulls? Meh.
  • Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    Personally, the GOP +220 price is a bit skinny for me.

    If another toss-up seat unexpectedly goes Dem then I expect the price for the Republicans taking the House to drift to about 1.35, so that's the time I'd go in again.

    What we can say now, with absolute confidence, is that the Dem 210-219 seat band is free money at 1.02-1.03. There's no way on God's earth that won't happen and the only issue is how quickly Betfair settles.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Sean_F said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    Don't like, don't read.

    Carlotta is very far from a Trumpian.
    I think in future we will find a lot of use of Trumpian toward anyone we dislike.

    I remember one example from around 2020 where despite consistently being vocally opposed to Trump (and not in a 'I'm not a fan, but' way) a certain poster was accused of secretly being a Trumpian because it supposedly seemed their views would lead them that way.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    There's a lot wrong with that article in detail.

    There's simply no way that Indian armies could have numbered in the hundreds of thousands, even millions, in Alexander's time. No state had the means to field armies of that size, and any attempt to do so would have resulted in their starving to death. When ancient historians say "a million soldiers", they mean "a very big number". You see the same with Herodotus or the Old Testament.

    As for the big drop in Indian population after 1300, the most obvious explanation for it is bubonic plague.
    I must admit my reaction to HYUFD frothing about pyramids was to reflect that you only need 4 skulls to make a pyramid. Pyramids of skulls? Meh.
    It would be interesting to know at some point how many publicly displayed severed heads it takes to elicit more than a nonchalant shrug from you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    edited November 2022

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    You don't want it discussed.

    Where have I heard that before?

    So why do civil liberties violations and calls for further clampdowns follow trans activism wherever it goes?

    The short answer is that the trans movement threatens civil liberties because the movement is not what it claims to be and thus is threatened by free and open enquiry.


    https://freethinker.co.uk/2022/10/the-falsehood-at-the-heart-of-the-trans-movement/

    And people wonder why Cyclefree left....
    I hope she returns soon - great poster - but she didn't leave because of insufficient discussion on here of transgender issues. She wrote extensively on this topic and tended to get tons of support. Too much support imo. Fwiw I think it is an interesting and important issue (although I don't agree with you or her about it).
  • Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    I find @CarlottaVance posts on this subject interesting.

    It's a sad sign of your generation that you find all discussion of it illegitimate and seek to shut it down.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    edited November 2022
    ..
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    Well you don't have to look far. Just read his Wikipedia page and there are lots of references of others calling him out on his later works. Some very strongly. You can't pick and choose your internet sources.
    Professor Jeremy Black formerly of Exeter University and now at the US Foreign Policy Institute regards Lal as a good scholar only considered rightwing by Indian Muslim Marxist historians, which says something

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=AiZtAgAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._S._Lal

    There you go again, selectively quoting from the internet. How about all the others historians there calling him out in very strong language for him publishing nonsense. Most with remarkable non Muslim sounding names, just to put a lie to the quote from Black.

    You have to stop posting selectively from the internet. It must be obvious to you that you are being partial.
    You are also partial, in the way you have just completely dismissed Professor Jeremy Black, one of the most respected British historians around. So don't pretend you don't also have an ideological agenda against Conservative or non Liberal left cultural views.

    I note you also don't name any non Indian left historians who disagree with Black
  • Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    They are a load of Hindu nationalist nonsense.
    Aside from noting that the total is given for thirteen centuries, it’s absurd to term what were wars between states of multiple kinds, over many centuries, as an ‘islamic genocide’ of Hindus.
    And accepting at face value casualty figures from so long ago is pitiful history.

    I’d also note that the mainly Hindu population of India grew at a historically unprecedented rate under Mughal rule.
    Professor Lal's fault is anachronism. He's trying to project Hindu nationalism back into a world in which it did not exist.

    Babur was an intellectual who wrote poetry, painted miniatures, and wrote his autobiography. He himself records building "towers of skulls" of defeated opponents. But, towers of skulls were standard operating practice for any steppe conqueror. Genghis Khan and his successors, and Timur, likewise built towers of skulls. The reason was this. You gave your enemies the option: surrender and live, resist and face total destruction.

    The Ottomans, Persians, North African corsairs, Spanish and other European rulers were equally brutal at the time, if less flamboyant. And, we can be quite sure that Hindu rulers were no nicer towards defeated enemies than Muslim rulers were.
    The only (somewhat dark) conclusion I can reach, unfortunately, is that humans enjoy it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, Sam Curran gets MOTM. Great to see it given to a bowler.

    And man of the tournament too. He has been outstanding and yet he hardly got a chance to bat.
    Can't even see him quoted in SPOTY betting so when he gets added it won't be generous.
    So when he gets added, he’ll be good value.
    I think the opposite. Can't remember how the voting works and if Curran and Stokes might split the cricket vote or if you can vote multiple times?
    There will be a shortlist from the BBC, with probably only one cricketer on it.
    Unfortunately I have little hope of any England men doing anything outstanding during the world cup.
    Assuming the footballers don’t win the WC, the cricketers should be favourites for team of the year.

    Looking at Betfair now, there’s only four sportspeople layable at sensible prices:
    Beth Mead
    Harry Kane
    Ben Stokes
    Ronnie O’Sullivan.

    I reckon the winner isn’t one of those four.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/special-bets/event/31141809/multi-market?marketIds=1.192647553
    I think it still goes to the women's football team winning the Euros in England.
    Yes, without taking a view on which waz the bigger achievment, the womens football was much higher profile than the mens 2020. Most of my family wereunaware the 2020 was on. Hell, I love cricket, and I didn't join the game until the third over.
    Ah okay, maybe my expat mind missed the women’s football then. Was it on BBC?
    Yes, it was ubiquitous. Not only on the BBC but also a big poster campaign from the BBC.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    That's called "preaching to the choir".

    I'd pay more attention to the "Republican Leaners" numbers.

    Of course the former could get Trump the nomination, while the latter lose him the election.
    The key polling should be on Fox viewers. If Fox ditch Trump that would make it very tough for him, if they give him a platform again, he can take down his rivals including De Santis imo.
    Fox, and the Murdoch press such as the NY Post, are clearly lining up behind DeSantis. So are the major Republican donors who will bankroll the primary season.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    And only part of Not Very North Island too (one has to respect @IanB2 's sensibilities).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    There's a lot wrong with that article in detail.

    There's simply no way that Indian armies could have numbered in the hundreds of thousands, even millions, in Alexander's time. No state had the means to field armies of that size, and any attempt to do so would have resulted in their starving to death. When ancient historians say "a million soldiers", they mean "a very big number". You see the same with Herodotus or the Old Testament.

    As for the big drop in Indian population after 1300, the most obvious explanation for it is bubonic plague.
    I must admit my reaction to HYUFD frothing about pyramids was to reflect that you only need 4 skulls to make a pyramid. Pyramids of skulls? Meh.
    Four skulls would mark you out as a bit of a bleeding-hearted liberal, back then.

    Conquerors were generally quite proud of their pyramids of heads/skulls. When Timur took Damascus, he commanded each soldier to bring him back two heads. So, once they ran out of Damascenes, they started beheading their prisoners.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    edited November 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    You don't want it discussed.

    Where have I heard that before?

    So why do civil liberties violations and calls for further clampdowns follow trans activism wherever it goes?

    The short answer is that the trans movement threatens civil liberties because the movement is not what it claims to be and thus is threatened by free and open enquiry.


    https://freethinker.co.uk/2022/10/the-falsehood-at-the-heart-of-the-trans-movement/

    And people wonder why Cyclefree left....
    I hope she returns soon - great poster - but she didn't leave because of insufficient discussion on here of transgender issues. She wrote extensively on this topic and tended to get tons of support. Too much support imo. Fwiw I think it is an interesting and important issue (although I don't agree with you or her about it).
    As ever the people going on and on* about a subject while simultaneously moaning about being shut down are numerous. It's the modern way.

    *and on
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
    But even that is very close. It's not as though they dislike DeSantis. If he got the nomination, and they like DeSantis, why would they go elsewhere?

    After all, if someone is a 'strong Republican' yet they would vote someone else if their preferred candidate does not get it, they aren't really a strong Republican, are they?

    It being close suggests they'd roll in behind DeSantis if he got the nomination, and would not rally behind Trump. Just as most strong Republicans will have voted Trump even though they wanted someone else.
    How do you know strong Republicans don't dislike DeSantis? Clearly more of them prefer Trump to DeSantis than not and if Trump ran as an Independent a large number of them would likely follow him.

    Even if most of them voted for DeSantis in the end just 5 to 10% for an Independent Trump would be enough to re elect Biden or elect whoever the Democrats candidate is if it is not Biden.

    RDS will need Trump's endorsement. Not sure how he gets it. A secret agreement to end any and all of Trumps legal issues would seem one good incentive. Beyond that, perhaps prevailing on Charles to give Trump an honorary knighthood, so he can make everyone call him 'Sir Donald' might work - like 'Sir' Norman Schwarzkopf.
  • Cookie said:

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
    Dunno.
    Please enlighten me using your vast reservoir of knowledge on the subject.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    Mathematics would be fine though
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    That 'lean toward Republican' figure should be of particular interest. Several areas were very close last time and leaners are surely critical.
    So are Strong Republicans, who still prefer Trump to DeSantis, if Trump lost the nomination and ran as an Independent
    But even that is very close. It's not as though they dislike DeSantis. If he got the nomination, and they like DeSantis, why would they go elsewhere?

    After all, if someone is a 'strong Republican' yet they would vote someone else if their preferred candidate does not get it, they aren't really a strong Republican, are they?

    It being close suggests they'd roll in behind DeSantis if he got the nomination, and would not rally behind Trump. Just as most strong Republicans will have voted Trump even though they wanted someone else.
    How do you know strong Republicans don't dislike DeSantis?
    ...because I have eyes? The chart shows it's very nearly a dead heat between DeSantis and Trump amongst strong Republicans, with Trump just edging it. If he was disliked that figure would not be close - remember how you banged on about Sunak's ratings vs Truss's, correctly noting not as many liked Sunak?

    As you are a self proclaimed party loyalist I find your general position of being really eager to believe other loyalists will abandon a party to be a little odd - you've long felt that was the case with the Tories as well, talking up people leaving to go with Boris were he to leave the party.

    Which some might, but loyalists? You're a loyalist, why do you think so little of other loyalists?
    Boris has not gone Independent but then RefUK are up to 9% in some polls, mainly from former Boris backers.

    9% for Trump as an Independent in 2024 would hand the election to the Democrats
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    They are a load of Hindu nationalist nonsense.
    Aside from noting that the total is given for thirteen centuries, it’s absurd to term what were wars between states of multiple kinds, over many centuries, as an ‘islamic genocide’ of Hindus.
    And accepting at face value casualty figures from so long ago is pitiful history.

    I’d also note that the mainly Hindu population of India grew at a historically unprecedented rate under Mughal rule.
    Professor Lal's fault is anachronism. He's trying to project Hindu nationalism back into a world in which it did not exist.

    Babur was an intellectual who wrote poetry, painted miniatures, and wrote his autobiography. He himself records building "towers of skulls" of defeated opponents. But, towers of skulls were standard operating practice for any steppe conqueror. Genghis Khan and his successors, and Timur, likewise built towers of skulls. The reason was this. You gave your enemies the option: surrender and live, resist and face total destruction.

    The Ottomans, Persians, North African corsairs, Spanish and other European rulers were equally brutal at the time, if less flamboyant. And, we can be quite sure that Hindu rulers were no nicer towards defeated enemies than Muslim rulers were.
    The only (somewhat dark) conclusion I can reach, unfortunately, is that humans enjoy it.
    My own view is that a lot of massacres/sacks of cities, can be explained (in part at least) by combat stress.

    But, yes, there are those who enjoy it. The Kings of Assyria just loved flaying, impaling, dismembering, burning, and enslaving their enemies.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    That is my understanding too.

    Quite why such a serious sexual assault was not taken seriously by hospital staff is unclear. It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.

    Hmmm, you are surprised?

    This is if a piece with many, many other problems. Judgement, discretion, humanity are ignored. Instead the nostrum of the day is elevated to the One True Faith.

    Constable Savage is alive, well, passed his diversity exams and has probably been promoted. He now arrests black people for asking for “Black Coffee” rather than “Coffee without milk”.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Cookie said:

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
    I am not an expert, and neither are you I suspect, but I did once had a chat with a school history teacher who commented that the English *had* to do Egyptians, or whatever. The Scots could do what was most practical/suitable so long as it covered the equivalent principles and concepts of e.g. understanding historical evidence. So in the example given to me they might look at local megaliths or castles rather than be unable to go and see the nearest museum with mummies 100+ miles away.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    I find @CarlottaVance posts on this subject interesting.

    It's a sad sign of your generation that you find all discussion of it illegitimate and seek to shut it down.
    Because you have never been known to try and run people off the site have you?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited November 2022
    The good news is we now know that if Trump falls behind DeSantis by even one point, say 43-44, that means Trump is no longer liked by the Republican party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    As for starters the vast majority of historical archives from the Middle Ages, Tudor and Stuart period etc we have were already around in 1900.

    History is NOT science, built on the latest scientific discoveries, it is simply a narrative record of historical archives and events and interpretation of them at a more advanced level
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
    I am not an expert, and neither are you I suspect, but I did once had a chat with a school history teacher who commented that the English *had* to do Egyptians, or whatever. The Scots could do what was most practical/suitable so long as it covered the equivalent principles and concepts of e.g. understanding historical evidence. So in the example given to me they might look at local megaliths or castles rather than be unable to go and see the nearest museum with mummies 100+ miles away.
    So Scottish history can miss one of the most influential civilisations in human history completely then?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Heathener said:

    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
    It was extremely painful to see people go against my call for Masto.

    It felt like a personal insult.
    What price was she when you made your 10k win call?
    Laxalt was @12 so hardly an act of Nostradamus by me but for some reason Laxalt was being talked up as a near sure thing on the thread.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    As for starters the vast majority of historical archives from the Middle Ages, Tudor and Stuart period etc we have were already around in 1900.

    History is NOT science, built on the latest scientific discoveries, it is simply a narrative record of historical archives and events and interpretation of them at a more advanced level
    Methodology. New analyses, new interpretations, all change.

    I've been extremely cautious about *any* history book written before the 1930s ever since a friend at uni showed me Herbert Butterfield's 'The Whig Interpretation of History' [or whatever it was called).
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    By by Donald.....

    New YouGov, *post-election* poll of R and R-leaning voters:

    “Who would you rather see as the Republican nominee for president in 2024: Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis?”

    DeSantis 42
    Trump 35
    Neither 10
    Not sure 13


    https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1591564803725611009



    https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/11/how-americans-feel-about-prospect-divided-congress

    Note too Trump still leads with strong Republicans
    That's called "preaching to the choir".

    I'd pay more attention to the "Republican Leaners" numbers.

    Of course the former could get Trump the nomination, while the latter lose him the election.
    The key polling should be on Fox viewers. If Fox ditch Trump that would make it very tough for him, if they give him a platform again, he can take down his rivals including De Santis imo.
    Fox, and the Murdoch press such as the NY Post, are clearly lining up behind DeSantis. So are the major Republican donors who will bankroll the primary season.
    So like the 2016 primaries again.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    No, please for all that is good no, don't get HYUFD onto Literature Review again. I'm begging you. Anything but that. I could not take it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    There's a lot wrong with that article in detail.

    There's simply no way that Indian armies could have numbered in the hundreds of thousands, even millions, in Alexander's time. No state had the means to field armies of that size, and any attempt to do so would have resulted in their starving to death. When ancient historians say "a million soldiers", they mean "a very big number". You see the same with Herodotus or the Old Testament.

    As for the big drop in Indian population after 1300, the most obvious explanation for it is bubonic plague.
    I must admit my reaction to HYUFD frothing about pyramids was to reflect that you only need 4 skulls to make a pyramid. Pyramids of skulls? Meh.
    Four skulls would mark you out as a bit of a bleeding-hearted liberal, back then.

    Conquerors were generally quite proud of their pyramids of heads/skulls. When Timur took Damascus, he commanded each soldier to bring him back two heads. So, once they ran out of Damascenes, they started beheading their prisoners.
    Tends to get overlooked in this part of the world when reflecting on conquerors, not sure why.

    Though I like the the hard turn in the wikipedia summary.

    An undefeated commander, he is widely regarded as one of the greatest military leaders and tacticians in history, as well as one of the most brutal.[9][10][11] Timur is also considered a great patron of art and architecture as he interacted with intellectuals such as Ibn Khaldun, Hafez, and Hafiz-i Abru and his reign introduced the Timurid Renaissance
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Alistair said:

    No, please for all that is good no, don't get HYUFD onto Literature Review again. I'm begging you. Anything but that. I could not take it.

    Awwwwww. (Is that the posh smutty mag? Name sounds familiar somehow - I wasn't here when HYUFD got into it, so it's not that.)

    I'm just reading this fascinating analysis of why 1066 and All that was written, in order to take the absolute piss out of Whig historians, Our Island Story, and so on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    As for starters the vast majority of historical archives from the Middle Ages, Tudor and Stuart period etc we have were already around in 1900.

    History is NOT science, built on the latest scientific discoveries, it is simply a narrative record of historical archives and events and interpretation of them at a more advanced level
    Methodology. New analyses, new interpretations, all change.

    I've been extremely cautious about *any* history book written before the 1930s ever since a friend at uni showed me Herbert Butterfield's 'The Whig Interpretation of History' [or whatever it was called).
    Our Island Story is a largely narrative account free of any political interpretation agenda on the whole.

    The fact it is not filled with modern Woke filled interpretations of how awful and shameful our history was makes it all the better
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    Mathematics would be fine though
    My old maths tutor gave me a text book on atomic physics written just at the moment of the discovery of the neutron (there was an addendum in the last chapter about the possible discovery)

    Fascinating to see a world just before a Great Change.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    One for @Leon, Fox News interview with Kari Lake:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fr2LyxJpHu8
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    As for starters the vast majority of historical archives from the Middle Ages, Tudor and Stuart period etc we have were already around in 1900.

    History is NOT science, built on the latest scientific discoveries, it is simply a narrative record of historical archives and events and interpretation of them at a more advanced level
    Methodology. New analyses, new interpretations, all change.

    I've been extremely cautious about *any* history book written before the 1930s ever since a friend at uni showed me Herbert Butterfield's 'The Whig Interpretation of History' [or whatever it was called).
    Books written in the distant past are the most exciting imo. When you read truth ringing out from in between the bits that are of their time - concepts that later events align with, you know you've found a great book. Today's history books will be so riddled with the mores of the 21st century that it's impossible to tell whether there's anything worth reading or not.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
    I am not an expert, and neither are you I suspect, but I did once had a chat with a school history teacher who commented that the English *had* to do Egyptians, or whatever. The Scots could do what was most practical/suitable so long as it covered the equivalent principles and concepts of e.g. understanding historical evidence. So in the example given to me they might look at local megaliths or castles rather than be unable to go and see the nearest museum with mummies 100+ miles away.
    So Scottish history can miss one of the most influential civilisations in human history completely then?
    Relative emphases - and IIRC the bit was to do with actually going to see and do stuff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
    I am not an expert, and neither are you I suspect, but I did once had a chat with a school history teacher who commented that the English *had* to do Egyptians, or whatever. The Scots could do what was most practical/suitable so long as it covered the equivalent principles and concepts of e.g. understanding historical evidence. So in the example given to me they might look at local megaliths or castles rather than be unable to go and see the nearest museum with mummies 100+ miles away.
    So Scottish history can miss one of the most influential civilisations in human history completely then?
    I don't remember doing it in my English school, except noting the end at Cleopatra.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Heathener said:

    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
    It was extremely painful to see people go against my call for Masto.

    It felt like a personal insult.
    What price was she when you made your 10k win call?
    Laxalt was @12 so hardly an act of Nostradamus by me but for some reason Laxalt was being talked up as a near sure thing on the thread.
    If you get the precise 10k right, that will be a genuine hats off.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,134
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I am not an expert, and neither are you I suspect, but I did once had a chat with a school history teacher who commented that the English *had* to do Egyptians, or whatever. The Scots could do what was most practical/suitable so long as it covered the equivalent principles and concepts of e.g. understanding historical evidence. So in the example given to me they might look at local megaliths or castles rather than be unable to go and see the nearest museum with mummies 100+ miles away.

    So Scottish history can miss one of the most influential civilisations in human history completely then?
    The time available to study in the school timetable is not infiinite, so at some point you have to make choices. You can't study everything important at a level of detail that also teaches the basics of what it means to study history. The Egyptian civilisation is pretty influential, but so is the Chinese, the Roman and the Incan, to pick three.
  • Cookie said:

    ..

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    For English schoolchildren presumably?
    Perhaps retitle it to 'My Southern Part of This Island Story' for the C21st.
    Bevause the Scots curriculum is famously balanced about Scotland's role in history?
    I did two years of it and it mainly seemed to be about the Highland clearances.
  • Tres said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    I find @CarlottaVance posts on this subject interesting.

    It's a sad sign of your generation that you find all discussion of it illegitimate and seek to shut it down.
    Because you have never been known to try and run people off the site have you?
    No. The only two exceptions (and I publicly called for a ban) were two notoriously abusive posters.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,134
    HYUFD said:

    Our Island Story is a largely narrative account free of any political interpretation agenda on the whole.

    The fact it is not filled with modern Woke filled interpretations of how awful and shameful our history was makes it all the better

    The decision not to put that stuff in is itself a political choice, even if perhaps an unconscious one. You can't have it both ways...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    On the Sports Personality Team of the Year, controversially for me it’s the mens cricket team. Note not the mens T20 team. The mens cricket team hold both World Cup titles. They also won 6 of 7 home test matches, often in thrilling, un-test match like style, budgeoning huge 4th innings winning targets with ease.

    But the BBC has no cricket rights, bar the hundred, and is hugely invested in promoting womens sport.* They will regard the T20 as separate from the tes5 squad and give it to the women, who I note won a European trophy, at home, rather than a Workd won, away.

    *Which is a very good thing. The more people play and enjoy sport, the healthier and happier they are, and showing womens sport gives role models to all our kids.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    They are a load of Hindu nationalist nonsense.
    Aside from noting that the total is given for thirteen centuries, it’s absurd to term what were wars between states of multiple kinds, over many centuries, as an ‘islamic genocide’ of Hindus.
    And accepting at face value casualty figures from so long ago is pitiful history.

    I’d also note that the mainly Hindu population of India grew at a historically unprecedented rate under Mughal rule.
    Professor Lal's fault is anachronism. He's trying to project Hindu nationalism back into a world in which it did not exist.

    Babur was an intellectual who wrote poetry, painted miniatures, and wrote his autobiography. He himself records building "towers of skulls" of defeated opponents. But, towers of skulls were standard operating practice for any steppe conqueror. Genghis Khan and his successors, and Timur, likewise built towers of skulls. The reason was this. You gave your enemies the option: surrender and live, resist and face total destruction.

    The Ottomans, Persians, North African corsairs, Spanish and other European rulers were equally brutal at the time, if less flamboyant. And, we can be quite sure that Hindu rulers were no nicer towards defeated enemies than Muslim rulers were.
    The only (somewhat dark) conclusion I can reach, unfortunately, is that humans enjoy it.
    My own view is that a lot of massacres/sacks of cities, can be explained (in part at least) by combat stress.

    But, yes, there are those who enjoy it. The Kings of Assyria just loved flaying, impaling, dismembering, burning, and enslaving their enemies.
    I think humans like to imagine it being done to them, which gives them a thrill, and then to be as creative as possible in finding imaginative ways to be unspeakably cruel to people, inflicting the maximum psychological and physical pain for as long as possible.

    We get off on it. We are fucked up.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    No surprise that PB's pub bore posts moronic shit like this:

    "About two centuries before the British took India, the racist supremacist Muslim Mughals took India, and built pyramids out of skulls. The Mughals were far far worse than the British. By some estimates they killed 40-80 million Indians. Others go higher"

    but slightly surprised that only Sunil objected


    The figures Leon gave were not wrong

    https://trunicle.com/worlds-biggest-holocaust-islamic-invaders-killed-more-than-80-million-hindus-in-india/
    This is how the site you link to describes itself (these are the site's own words) -

    Truncile.com, owned by Trunicle India Pvt. Ltd., derived from True Chronicles, is a pro nationalist opinion and news portal, launched in July 2020. Trunicle focuses on topics that are related to India policy, governance and current affairs. It also focuses on publishing positive & development oriented articles for youth who today struggle to find relevant material online. Trunicle does this by empowering individuals to come and raise their voice for what is RIGHT.
    (emphasis mine)

    https://trunicle.com/about-us/
    The figures come from work by the Indian historian Professor KS Lal

    https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/whitewashing-genocides-and-history-phobia-why-ks-lals-claims-of-80-mn-hindus-killed-by-islamic-barbarism-hold-water-11618501.html
    Umm. And have you read about what he wrote in later life, which is discredited.
    @hyufd. Just to add to my post - You wouldn't quote David Irving, would you, about the Holocaust so it is worth checking what and who you are quoting. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. Something I have mentioned to you a few times. Leon should bear that in mind also.

    Well the vast majority of historians agree the Holocaust happened unlike Irving.

    Show me evidence then of historians who disprove Professor Lal's claims? Irving of course was just an author, he did not even have a PhD and certainly was never a Professor unlike Lal
    There are critiques of Prof Lal's work in terms of numbers on the quite obvious grounds of the lack of decent census data on medieval India before and after the arrival of Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

    This is not an idle piece of historical analysis, but a very active political agenda in India. The Hindutva activists use it as a way to stir up communal violence. We saw some of that in my City in September.
    HYUFD is an activist in a party which actively tries to suppress historical debate and to force schools to use dodgy old textbooks. I mean, 'My Island Story'. WTF!?!
    My Island Story is an excellent narrative record of English history from Roman times to the Victorian era without the self hate of the left
    It is obviously an extremist right wing tract if you approve of it.

    There is also the small matter that it was written in 1905 and will be howlingly out of date. There is the other small matter of the bit that comes after the Victorians, always conveniently ignored by Tory enthusiasts for the 1066 and All That style of school teaching of history.
    Why would it be out of date? It stopped at the 20th century and was written at the beginning of the 20th century.

    For schoolchildren it is still an excellent overview of English history in Medieval, Tudor, Stuart and Georgan and Victorian times.

    The fact it is woke free does not make it 'an extremist right wing tract'
    A biology textbook from 1905 would be hopelessly out of date. A physics one from the same year would too. Ditto geology, psychology, sociology, chemistry, geography, politics… Why do you think history alone is somehow unaffected by the last 117 years of developments in human knowledge?
    As for starters the vast majority of historical archives from the Middle Ages, Tudor and Stuart period etc we have were already around in 1900.

    History is NOT science, built on the latest scientific discoveries, it is simply a narrative record of historical archives and events and interpretation of them at a more advanced level
    History is not a dead subject, and people are still reinterpreting old data. Many old Tudor, Stuart etc records have probably never been that studied.
  • kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Heathener said:

    Barnesian said:

    Like other PBers who are not watching the cricket, I've been analysing the 21 remaining House races to try to find betting opportunities.

    If all 21 end up with the current leaders the result is 214/221 D/R.

    However if one introduces the possibility of surprises by identifying those six races that can be swung if 55% of outstanding votes go the other way from the current leader you end up with 6 Hung, 211D, 218R.

    My conclusion is that the 1.2 on Betfair for a Republican House majority is good value. So is the 2.24 on the GOP getting 220-229 seats.

    You may be statistically right but this is where UK residents can come a cropper. It's not about statistical probabilities, it's about the nitty gritty of the voting demographic in all of the remaining counties. I don't have that info and unless you do, you are introducing more risk.

    We've already seen people on here come a cropper over Laxalt.

    On the other hand, CNN think the Republicans are probably just about going to sneak a slim majority. I trust their judgement and they are certainly not calling this yet.
    It was extremely painful to see people go against my call for Masto.

    It felt like a personal insult.
    What price was she when you made your 10k win call?
    Laxalt was @12 so hardly an act of Nostradamus by me but for some reason Laxalt was being talked up as a near sure thing on the thread.
    If you get the precise 10k right, that will be a genuine hats off.
    Backing Laxalt at 1.35 with £100 on the eve of the count was probably one of the dumbest bets I've ever made.

    I'd convinced myself the early results pointed to a Republican tidal wave.

    Such bollocks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks:

    ‘Guidance for Scotland’s biggest health board also says that any woman who complains about a transwoman sharing their ward should be advised that “the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”.’

    https://twitter.com/kathmurray1/status/1591708311153524737

    Unbelievable, Sturgeon and her cohorts have a lot to answer for.
    It’s already led to cases like this in the NHS (location not disclosed):

    A patient who was raped by a transgender woman on a hospital ward could not have been raped because her attacker is defined as a woman, heard the House of Lords.

    Police were told by hospital staff that the reported incident was not true, telling officers: "There was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened."


    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

    Does the Scottish government think that gaslighting rape victims is the new progressive future?
    It's just ignorance. Our sexual offences legislation is gender neutral and there is no reason why a woman with a penis could not be found guilty of rape.
    It doesn't matter what gender or sex the attacker and victim were, a sexual assault is a sexual assault.
    So keeping people with a penis out of women’s wards would be a good start…


    More that protecting all patients from assaults by other patients would be a good start.
    Since 98% of sexual assault convictions are committed by people with penises, do you think that might be a place to start?
    It may well put Trans-women at risk.
    So Trans women are at risk from men?
    Yes. Does that surprise you?

    Imagine being a trans-woman in a male prison, or psychiatric facility.

    I notice you deleted the "other" as in "other men".

    So the solution is to put biological women at risk from Trans Women?

    Pop quiz. What are the relative sexual assault offending rates between women, men and Trans women? One is very different from the other two. Two cluster closely.
    FFS when will you ever drop your utter obsession with this topic? You are the most tedious person on this forum.

    Most of this country couldn't give a flying fuck how people wish to assign their gender.

    You have disappeared down the kind of Trumpian rabbit hole that leads into oblivion. A bewildered and sad old person lost in a wilderness of their own creation.
    You don't want it discussed.

    Where have I heard that before?

    So why do civil liberties violations and calls for further clampdowns follow trans activism wherever it goes?

    The short answer is that the trans movement threatens civil liberties because the movement is not what it claims to be and thus is threatened by free and open enquiry.


    https://freethinker.co.uk/2022/10/the-falsehood-at-the-heart-of-the-trans-movement/

    And people wonder why Cyclefree left....
    I hope she returns soon - great poster - but she didn't leave because of insufficient discussion on here of transgender issues. She wrote extensively on this topic and tended to get tons of support. Too much support imo. Fwiw I think it is an interesting and important issue (although I don't agree with you or her about it).
    As ever the people going on and on* about a subject while simultaneously moaning about being shut down are numerous. It's the modern way.

    *and on
    Indeed.

    Just finished a suite of Stones progs btw. 4 x "My Life as a Stone", one each for Charlie, Mick, Keith and Ronnie Wood. All very enjoyable, esp one bit where Mick, obviously a touch pissed off with "Keith is authentic, he's the blues" type received wisdom, stresses how most of the soppy ballads were Keith not him. "I mean, even Angie was him," he smirks.

    Also interesting how Bill Wyman was airbrushed out. Occasionally in the clips - since he had to be - but not referenced a single time in any of the progs, not by the voice over (Sienna Miller) and neither in any of the interviews.
This discussion has been closed.