Andrew Neil @afneil · 12m Truss government collapsing around her. She’s U-turned on nearly every major economic policy. Now lost control of economy policy. Lost her Chancellor, Home Secretary now Chief Whip. Replaced by non-Trussites. It’s over. Time for cabinet/senior Tory MPs to tell her, quickly, now.
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Our unwritten constitution is being painfully exposed imo
Every time we have a crisis people blame our 'unwritten' constitution. It is rarely true, in fact last time we had a crisis like this during the Brexit wars the problem was about things that were very much written, but written poorly.
Codification would not solve a problem of deep political dysfunction, the dysfunction would just manifest in different ways. It might solve other problems, but not one like this.
The trouble is that short of an uprising from the people there's no mechanism for getting us a General Election.
Labour should just keep calling confidence motions as often as they are allowed to. Even if they keep losing them. Confidence in the government should be tested as often as practical at the moment. Is there a protocol on how often you can do it?
Our unwritten constitution is being painfully exposed imo
Every time we have a crisis people blame our 'unwritten' constitution. It is rarely true, in fact last time we had a crisis like this during the Brexit wars the problem was about things that were very much written, but written poorly.
Codification would not solve a problem of deep political dysfunction, the dysfunction would just manifest in different ways. It might solve other problems, but not one like this.
How else can we remove a government or PM That has quite clearly lost control? We can’t. We’re reliant on MPs to put their jobs on the line for their principles
Oddly enough, we've been looking for one or two alleged erratics in the Flatlands too.
They are mentioned in various historic documents but seem to have gone AWOL.
Was wondering if anyone would read it - let alone have such a substantive comment!
There's always someone interested in any given esoteric subject, it seems.
If anyone knows there whereabouts of some large rocks found near the village of Wroot, Lincolnshire - possibly the furthest extent of the last British ice sheet - I'd be most obliged.
They are part of the folklore but seem to have disappeared. Same state as the Tories will be in shortly.
Andrew Neil @afneil · 12m Truss government collapsing around her. She’s U-turned on nearly every major economic policy. Now lost control of economy policy. Lost her Chancellor, Home Secretary now Chief Whip. Replaced by non-Trussites. It’s over. Time for cabinet/senior Tory MPs to tell her, quickly, now.
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
Impossible with FPTP as it splits the right, same as Starmer needs Corbynites in Labour
Our unwritten constitution is being painfully exposed imo
Every time we have a crisis people blame our 'unwritten' constitution. It is rarely true, in fact last time we had a crisis like this during the Brexit wars the problem was about things that were very much written, but written poorly.
Codification would not solve a problem of deep political dysfunction, the dysfunction would just manifest in different ways. It might solve other problems, but not one like this.
How else can we remove a government or PM That has quite clearly lost control? We can’t. We’re reliant on MPs to put their jobs on the line for their principles
Doesn't sound like you are arguing for codification into a 'written constitution', you just want there to be an additional law/rule of some kind to remove the government, which doesn't seem the same thing to me.
After all, don't many arguments in codified systems come down to where the laws are silent or not clear on something, where despite having a written constitution the rules are confused?
The current situation is ridiculous, but parliament surely has the power to bring down the government. It just won't currently do it even though the government has no control whatsoever.
Out having to deal with flesh&blood nonsense and saw "Braverman" trending. Can't be a good thing, I thought, unless she's decided to relocate to Rwanda. But I bet it's not that. I bet it's more she's done something crass and self-serving. Off now to check.
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
And he was the architect of all this and you shamelessly try to absolve him
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
Boris led you unto this disgrace. Apart from his own corrupt maladministration, he helped spike Sunak to make room for his chosen heir, Truss.
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party.Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
100% agreed
Yup. Problem is the UKIPers infesting the party. But they’ll need opposition to rebuild and expel them
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
Labour were getting leads of over 10% when Boris was PM.
Yes, it has gotten much worse because Truss has collapsed things, but the Tories were quite a way behind already, and it has gone into overdrive only in the last 2 weeks.
As good a job as Boris did in 2019, you simply cannot pretend that he was as popular in 2022 as he was in 2019. Times have moved on. He was behind.
The question was whether he could recover from that position. MPs felt the answer was no.
MPs have been wrong before, they were wrong about Truss deserving of being in the final two for a start, but let's also not forget that the Tories you like the most, such as JRM, were vocal Truss backers, and Boris wanted her to win over Rishi as well.
p.s. if the election were held now there would be a lot of true blue voters who would vote against them out of sheer anger.
Yes, a lot of them would vote for Reform UK. A seat like Castle Point might even be won by them.
Nah, this catastrophic government tried to deliver Farage and Reform UK's policies and it's been a complete disaster. Faragism has been debunked as a political ideology.
Did they? It seems that everyone is characterising Liz Truss's failures in whatever way suits their preferred narrative.
Indeed and there are many like me that would vote tory despite everything if it meant keeping a lib dem out. Certainly not something I would do to keep labour out. Outs himself as an anyone but libdem voter
Visceral hatred of the LibDems is unusual. Surprised you have room for it amongst all your others.
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
Who are the 'moderates'?
Not a trick question, I just think the majority of MPs are of the Trussite or more extreme wing.
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party.Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
100% agreed
Yup. Problem is the UKIPers infesting the party. But they’ll need opposition to rebuild and expel them
Strange. You'd expect her to vote in favour. Then against. Then in favour. That seems to be her MO.
I think if I was a Chief Whip trying to corral a government in a three-line confidence vote whip and the PM abstained and the confidence element rescinded at the last moment, I'd probably resign.
1) Imposing a three line whip on a motion that ran counter to a manifesto commitment; 2) Said voting against the whip would be tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the government; 3) Then withdrew it when she realised that voting to remove the government was an idea that was quite popular with Tory MPs; 4) Finally, didn't follow her own three line whip on what she initially said was a confidence motion?
Because that's just extraordinary. That's a Carry On level of farce.
If anyone wanted to predict this shambles they should have read Alan Duncan's book. He said everything Johnson touched would turn to shit and he would be a complete disaster as PM and take the party down with him
Well Duncan was wrong in that as Johnson won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher after May left a hung parliament, got Brexit completed and oversaw the roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
1) Imposing a three line whip on a motion that ran counter to a manifesto commitment; 2) Said voting against the whip would be tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the government; 3) Then withdrew it when she realised that voting to remove the government was an idea that was quite popular with Tory MPs; 4) Finally, didn't follow her own three line whip on what she initially said was a confidence motion?
Because that's just extraordinary. That's a Carry On level of farce.
I must say the idea of Therese Coffey and Jacob Rees-Mogg manhandling MPs into the lobby conjures up images of Hattie Jacques and Kenneth Williams.
I do almost, but not quite, feel bad for whoever the next Tory PM is. They might somehow get a reasonable grip on things, a performance that would demonstrate them worthy of the office and possibly being a great PM in normal times, but they are then going to see the party go down to a big defeat in any case.
p.s. if the election were held now there would be a lot of true blue voters who would vote against them out of sheer anger.
Yes, a lot of them would vote for Reform UK. A seat like Castle Point might even be won by them.
Nah, this catastrophic government tried to deliver Farage and Reform UK's policies and it's been a complete disaster. Faragism has been debunked as a political ideology.
Did they? It seems that everyone is characterising Liz Truss's failures in whatever way suits their preferred narrative.
Including you of course. In fact one of the first out of the traps on this endeavour.
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
Who are the 'moderates'?
Not a trick question, I just think the majority of MPs are of the Trussite or more extreme wing.
In this, I think HYUFD is the voice of the party.
The Cameroon, May, Hunt, Sunak, Gove, Shapps wing. The Dehenna Davisons of this world.
1) Imposing a three line whip on a motion that ran counter to a manifesto commitment; 2) Said voting against the whip would be tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the government; 3) Then withdrew it when she realised that voting to remove the government was an idea that was quite popular with Tory MPs; 4) Finally, didn't follow her own three line whip on what she initially said was a confidence motion?
Because that's just extraordinary. That's a Carry On level of farce.
I must say the idea of Therese Coffey and Jacob Rees-Mogg manhandling MPs into the lobby conjures up images of Hattie Jacques and Kenneth Williams.
Seriously, don't you have an instagram or facebook account you could post your holiday snaps on?
One or two is fine but Leon is trying to turn this into Facebook or something. Holiday snaps and conspiracy theories.
Agreed, if it's something interesting, others do that as well and I enjoy them in small doses.
With Leon we get 20 a day when he's away, endless photos of a drink on a table, nondescript plates of food. It's just boring and intrusive on a politics website. Most of us have travelled, we know what a glass of wine and a mountain and a train look like.
1) Imposing a three line whip on a motion that ran counter to a manifesto commitment; 2) Said voting against the whip would be tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the government; 3) Then withdrew it when she realised that voting to remove the government was an idea that was quite popular with Tory MPs; 4) Finally, didn't follow her own three line whip on what she initially said was a confidence motion?
Because that's just extraordinary. That's a Carry On level of farce.
I must say the idea of Therese Coffey and Jacob Rees-Mogg manhandling MPs into the lobby conjures up images of Hattie Jacques and Kenneth Williams.
1) Imposing a three line whip on a motion that ran counter to a manifesto commitment; 2) Said voting against the whip would be tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the government; 3) Then withdrew it when she realised that voting to remove the government was an idea that was quite popular with Tory MPs; 4) Finally, didn't follow her own three line whip on what she initially said was a confidence motion?
Because that's just extraordinary. That's a Carry On level of farce.
I must say the idea of Therese Coffey and Jacob Rees-Mogg manhandling MPs into the lobby conjures up images of Hattie Jacques and Kenneth Williams.
Ha yes but JRM’s more Charles Hawtrey, surely?
He's quite large. But equally, I don't think he'd get very far. It only takes one MP to tear his glasses off and stamp on them hard...
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
Who are the 'moderates'?
Not a trick question, I just think the majority of MPs are of the Trussite or more extreme wing.
In this, I think HYUFD is the voice of the party.
I voted for Sunak, 57% of Tory members and a majority of MPs did not in the final ballot. I am on the moderate wing on that basis, even if Tory members have now changed their mind
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 12m Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
The moderates need to take their party back. And then expel the ERG/Spartans, force them to form a new party. Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
Who are the 'moderates'?
Not a trick question, I just think the majority of MPs are of the Trussite or more extreme wing.
In this, I think HYUFD is the voice of the party.
The Cameroon, May, Hunt, Sunak, Gove, Shapps wing. The Dehenna Davisons of this world.
Comments
@afneil
·
12m
Truss government collapsing around her. She’s U-turned on nearly every major economic policy. Now lost control of economy policy. Lost her Chancellor, Home Secretary now Chief Whip. Replaced by non-Trussites. It’s over. Time for cabinet/senior Tory MPs to tell her, quickly, now.
Codification would not solve a problem of deep political dysfunction, the dysfunction would just manifest in different ways. It might solve other problems, but not one like this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cx250jmk4e7t/pound-sterling-gbp
Argh.
She's nuts and it is now dangerous at a time of war.
Thatcher used to use it liberally.
Omnishambles is far too mild.
Kate Ferguson
@kateferguson4
·
12m
Liz Truss ashen faced in the lobby.
Tory MPs shouted “it’s a disgrace” and “it’s a shambles” as they went into vote
Liz said nothing.
That has quite clearly lost control? We can’t. We’re reliant on MPs to put their jobs on the line for their principles
Craig Whittaker has just come out of the lobby and said" I am fucking furious and I don’t give a fuck anymore”.'
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1582800202318368768
Please, please, these people belong in an asylum.
If anyone knows there whereabouts of some large rocks found near the village of Wroot, Lincolnshire - possibly the furthest extent of the last British ice sheet - I'd be most obliged.
They are part of the folklore but seem to have disappeared. Same state as the Tories will be in shortly.
In which case there is a certain irony to their plaintive cries.
Its the only way we get a functioning opposition AND a populist right wing option
That was BEFORE the lower standards pioneered by Boris Johnson & Co.
roll out of the vaccines.
Only since Boris was removed has the party descended into the current chaos and huge Labour lead
After all, don't many arguments in codified systems come down to where the laws are silent or not clear on something, where despite having a written constitution the rules are confused?
The current situation is ridiculous, but parliament surely has the power to bring down the government. It just won't currently do it even though the government has no control whatsoever.
https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1582803435191422976
rubbish, worthy of George Orwell.
Tell that to the Irish.
They cannot be trusted to sit on a toilet the right way around never mind run the country.
40 Tories didn't vote with the Government on fracking. Including Kwasi Kwarteng.
Neither did Theresa May, Priti Patel or Wendy Morton who was, until ten minutes ago, the chief whip.
https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1582802165000654849
This is beyond ridiculous.
Tom Larkin
@TomLarkinSky
·
11m
🤯 Chris Bryant live on Sky with
@SamCoatesSky
describing the extraordinary scenes in the Commons tonight.
Says he saw 4 MPs, inc Deputy PM Therese Coffey and Jacob Rees-Mogg, physically man-handling another Tory MP into their voting lobby.
"I've never seen anything like this"
===
And there's a photo apparently.
That seems to be her MO.
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1582795488986030080
Apart from his own corrupt maladministration, he helped spike Sunak to make room for his chosen heir, Truss.
Yes, it has gotten much worse because Truss has collapsed things, but the Tories were quite a way behind already, and it has gone into overdrive only in the last 2 weeks.
As good a job as Boris did in 2019, you simply cannot pretend that he was as popular in 2022 as he was in 2019. Times have moved on. He was behind.
The question was whether he could recover from that position. MPs felt the answer was no.
MPs have been wrong before, they were wrong about Truss deserving of being in the final two for a start, but let's also not forget that the Tories you like the most, such as JRM, were vocal Truss backers, and Boris wanted her to win over Rishi as well.
Don't know how many were paired?
But maybe Truss will removed the whip from herself.
https://twitter.com/ABLPoli/status/1582805176968417280
Not a trick question, I just think the majority of MPs are of the Trussite or more extreme wing.
In this, I think HYUFD is the voice of the party.
1) Imposing a three line whip on a motion that ran counter to a manifesto commitment;
2) Said voting against the whip would be tantamount to a vote of no confidence in the government;
3) Then withdrew it when she realised that voting to remove the government was an idea that was quite popular with Tory MPs;
4) Finally, didn't follow her own three line whip on what she initially said was a confidence motion?
Because that's just extraordinary. That's a Carry On level of farce.
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1582802556052701185?s=61&t=M8nP5HQTDq95U7kBlnHAmA
Much amusement for all around the world.
With Leon we get 20 a day when he's away, endless photos of a drink on a table, nondescript plates of food. It's just boring and intrusive on a politics website. Most of us have travelled, we know what a glass of wine and a mountain and a train look like.
But let's pretend it was the ditching of Boris that caused the 30% deficits.
If it were the case, we would have seen that right away.
Gamblers bet accordingly.