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A damning attack on Truss from ConservativeHome – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Scott_xP said:

    A prime minister who insists her government has the intellectual high ground yet has no answers when asked basic questions on borrowing or mortgage rates, has no place being prime minister, writes @RMCunliffe. https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/09/liz-truss-economic-plans-markets-growth?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1664521944-2

    Fixed.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    edited September 2022
    As expected and in line with some of the other polling companies, the final VI poll figures put Labour with a *32pt* lead over the Tories. (Fieldwork 29-30 Sep)

    Con: 23% (-9 from 23-26 Sep)
    Lab: 55% (+11)
    Lib Dem: 7% (-3)
    Green: 5% (0)
    Reform UK: 3% (-1)
    SNP: 5% (+1)

    #polling
    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1575837270266892290
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,517

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I don't think you could call it WWIII with neither China or India involved. Probably Japan also not involved.

    Anyway, Putin's bluff is being called.
    Let’s hope it’s a bluff, eh?

    Because I’m really not sure it is. Putin looks utterly desperate, and hunted. Cornered, and nasty
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    From the 1922 committee to resignation: How Tory MPs could get rid of Truss https://uk.yahoo.com/news/1922-committee-resignation-tory-mps-134508688.html
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Nine council by-elections last night

    Lab gain from Con
    Con hold x2
    Lab hold
    LDm hold x3
    PC hold
    Ind hold

    Good week/Bad Week Index

    LDm +172
    Lab +72
    PC +51
    Con +13
    Grn -2
    SNP -18

    Adjusted Seat Value

    LDm +2.2
    Lab +1.2
    PC +0.9
    Con +0.2
    Grn -0.0
    SNP -0.3

    Why doesn't adjusted seat value sum to zero? Is seat inflation out of control too?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    That YouGov poll looking less like an outlier:
    @Omnisis 30 Sep 32pt Lab lead
    @PeoplePolling 29 Sep 30pts
    @Survation 29 Sep 21pts
    @techneUK 28-29 Sep 20pts
    @YouGov 28-29 Sep 33pts
    @RedfieldWilton 28-29 Sep 17pts
    @DeltapollUK 27-29 Sep 19pts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1575859211195777024/photo/1
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    Breaking from @YouGov

    More than half of Britons (51%) think that Truss should resign

    Includes over a third (36%) of 2019 Conservative voters who also say this

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/09/30/fee3a/1
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    What would WWIII do to interest rates ?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    If rumours online are correct it looks like Ukraine could be under NATO protection quite shortly.

    Your move, Vlad....

    (Can I suggest you move your troops back to pre September 30th 2022 Russian borders?)
    Or better still, the 2013 borders.
    Same thing.
    Crimea.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,517
    Agreeable Doomsday lunch at the Grouch, tho

    Bruschetta with stracchino cheese, squash, chestnuts, crispy sage

    Vitello tonnato, tuna, capers & anchovies sauce, quail eggs!

    And now a superb Wehlener Riesling dessert wine

    if I die today I die well fed

  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    My take on what's happened and what needs to happen next. #soundmoney

    Outlier Britain needs a credible economic plan in a hurry https://www.ft.com/content/5f4386ea-b384-46d9-9767-14a2da77d1e5
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Leon said:

    Agreeable Doomsday lunch at the Grouch, tho

    Bruschetta with stracchino cheese, squash, chestnuts, crispy sage

    Vitello tonnato, tuna, capers & anchovies sauce, quail eggs!

    And now a superb Wehlener Riesling dessert wine

    if I die today I die well fed

    If people aren't coming in to sit down for dinner while you're still at your table you can consider it a failure.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
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    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
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    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited September 2022
    Nigelb said:
    Place with the biggest pro-Russian rallies during the war seems to have been Belgrade. Like Celtic FC/Ireland lol.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    edited September 2022
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    HSBC release statement warn mass forced house sales as mortgage rise by £6,000 ps

    Truss needs to go now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-warns-mass-forced-sales-mortgage-costs-jump-5000-year/

    The government cannot underwrite everybody's bloody mortgage. Changes in mortgage rates are a known risk. There may be lots of reasons for her to go but this is simply not one.
    If you read the article there are £1500 reasons for her to go....
    What, the PM should go because mortgage rates go up 1%. I mean, are you serious?
    Thanks to her ill considered plans, botched announcements and cack-handed approach she will have nearly doubled mortgage rates from 2.7% to 5.5%

    If she had kept her big gob shut and let the OBR do its job then this would not be happening.
    She is incompetent and she has made a very bad situation worse but a major part of our problem was the failure of the BoE to follow the Fed with a 0.75% increase in rates about 10 days ago. Sterling was already under continuous pressure before the episode of loony tunes last week. This was aggravating inflation, not least in fuel costs, and was a clear breach of the Bank's mandate. The era of ultra low interest rates is at an end and there is nothing the government can do about it.
    Bound to be painful coming off a 15 year trip on cheap money and QE so let's do it as carefully as possible, mitigate the pain, spread it out, try to steer it at those most able to take a hit. Truss is doing the dead opposite of this. Rushed, chaotic, incoherent, the affluent sheltered and everyone else taking the brunt. Wrong on every level.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    Zelensky: "Ukraine was and remains a leader in negotiation efforts." However...

    "It is obvious this is impossible with this Russian president. He does not know what dignity and honesty is. Therefore, we are ready for dialogue with Russia, but with another Russian president."
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575852889225953282
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,517
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Agreeable Doomsday lunch at the Grouch, tho

    Bruschetta with stracchino cheese, squash, chestnuts, crispy sage

    Vitello tonnato, tuna, capers & anchovies sauce, quail eggs!

    And now a superb Wehlener Riesling dessert wine

    if I die today I die well fed

    If people aren't coming in to sit down for dinner while you're still at your table you can consider it a failure.
    I have spent the last penny of my Club Covid Credit, on the last day it was valid

    It all feels very Endtimesy

    From tomorrow I think I might actually start avoiding the news, for maybe the first time in my life. It is too intense
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky: "Ukraine was and remains a leader in negotiation efforts." However...

    "It is obvious this is impossible with this Russian president. He does not know what dignity and honesty is. Therefore, we are ready for dialogue with Russia, but with another Russian president."
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575852889225953282

    Would he prefer Medvedev or Kadyrov ?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Place with the biggest pro-Russian rallies during the war seems to have been Belgrade. Like Celtic FC/Ireland lol.
    What, more than the five people in my video clip ?
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Brexit, essentially.

    The ruling class since 2016 (including multiple media outriders) simply chose to believe the world was flat.

    Round earthers were ostracised and expelled.
  • Options

    Looking at the recent polls, I suspect the fairly poor Lib Dem showing is easy to explain. Previously, some voters fed up with Boris but not enamoured by Labour were going Lib Dem as a sort of half-way house. Now, though, so many are so utterly disenchanted by the Tories that they just want them replaced - and only Labour (who are looking much more respectable recently) can do that.

    As others have said, in an actual GE the Lib Dems will get quite a lift from tactical voting in Tory-held seats.

    Correct.
  • Options
    PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Agreeable Doomsday lunch at the Grouch, tho

    Bruschetta with stracchino cheese, squash, chestnuts, crispy sage

    Vitello tonnato, tuna, capers & anchovies sauce, quail eggs!

    And now a superb Wehlener Riesling dessert wine

    if I die today I die well fed

    If people aren't coming in to sit down for dinner while you're still at your table you can consider it a failure.
    I have spent the last penny of my Club Covid Credit, on the last day it was valid

    It all feels very Endtimesy

    From tomorrow I think I might actually start avoiding the news, for maybe the first time in my life. It is too intense
    trick is to limit it...i only watch one news bulletin a day in the early evening...never watch the 10 o clock news even if im at home would rather watch netflix instead....also make sure im off the internet totally many hours each day
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Because non-morons wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    If rumours online are correct it looks like Ukraine could be under NATO protection quite shortly.

    Your move, Vlad....

    (Can I suggest you move your troops back to pre September 30th 2022 Russian borders?)
    Or better still, the 2013 borders.
    Same thing.
    Crimea.
    Nobody sane accepts Crimea is part of Russia.
  • Options
    What time is the funky Russian Annexation Concert in Red Square?

    Somehow I don’t think it will feature a skit from Putin with Paddington Bear…
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    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
  • Options

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    Presumably you're fully jabbed?

    I was the similar - thought "this is a bad cold, a bit off my food" so took a test and was positive. Worst symptoms over pretty quickly, but felt a bit under the weather for a few weeks.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    Leon said:

    Agreeable Doomsday lunch at the Grouch, tho

    Bruschetta with stracchino cheese, squash, chestnuts, crispy sage

    Vitello tonnato, tuna, capers & anchovies sauce, quail eggs!

    And now a superb Wehlener Riesling dessert wine

    if I die today I die well fed

    Anybody in there catch your eye as looking "nasty dangerous and cornered"?
  • Options

    Nine council by-elections last night

    Lab gain from Con
    Con hold x2
    Lab hold
    LDm hold x3
    PC hold
    Ind hold

    Good week/Bad Week Index

    LDm +172
    Lab +72
    PC +51
    Con +13
    Grn -2
    SNP -18

    Adjusted Seat Value

    LDm +2.2
    Lab +1.2
    PC +0.9
    Con +0.2
    Grn -0.0
    SNP -0.3

    Why doesn't adjusted seat value sum to zero? Is seat inflation out of control too?
    The 'value' of each seat is different for each party, based on their strength on the council, the history in that ward, and the vote share they have got historically.
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    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
  • Options
    Seems highly unlikely that NATO will let Ukraine join NATO overnight.

    Nevertheless, Putin’s annexations will receive some kind of response, presumably that is the announcement this evening.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    HSBC release statement warn mass forced house sales as mortgage rise by £6,000 ps

    Truss needs to go now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-warns-mass-forced-sales-mortgage-costs-jump-5000-year/

    The government cannot underwrite everybody's bloody mortgage. Changes in mortgage rates are a known risk. There may be lots of reasons for her to go but this is simply not one.
    If you read the article there are £1500 reasons for her to go....
    What, the PM should go because mortgage rates go up 1%. I mean, are you serious?
    Thanks to her ill considered plans, botched announcements and cack-handed approach she will have nearly doubled mortgage rates from 2.7% to 5.5%

    If she had kept her big gob shut and let the OBR do its job then this would not be happening.
    She is incompetent and she has made a very bad situation worse but a major part of our problem was the failure of the BoE to follow the Fed with a 0.75% increase in rates about 10 days ago. Sterling was already under continuous pressure before the episode of loony tunes last week. This was aggravating inflation, not least in fuel costs, and was a clear breach of the Bank's mandate. The era of ultra low interest rates is at an end and there is nothing the government can do about it.
    Bound to be painful coming off a 15 year trip on cheap money and QE so let's do it as carefully as possible, mitigate the pain, spread it out, try to steer it at those most able to take a hit. Truss is doing the dead opposite of this. Rushed, chaotic, incoherent, the affluent sheltered and everyone else taking the brunt. Wrong on every level.
    To take a medical analogy...

    Post lockdown, most people needed to become less wobbly. But the way to start that process was with some gentle limbering up wearing looseish clothing. Truss is sending us out in running kit that doesn't really fit any more, to do timed runs, whilst carrying millionaires in Sedan chairs because they need to be cosseted.

    It might be OK, but it seems unlikely.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,150
    Leon said:

    Agreeable Doomsday lunch at the Grouch, tho

    Bruschetta with stracchino cheese, squash, chestnuts, crispy sage

    Vitello tonnato, tuna, capers & anchovies sauce, quail eggs!

    And now a superb Wehlener Riesling dessert wine

    if I die today I die well fed

    Ideally we hang on til Wednesday for Armageddon because I've got La Dame de Pic on Tuesday.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    edited September 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Brexit, essentially.

    The ruling class since 2016 (including multiple media outriders) simply chose to believe the world was flat.

    Round earthers were ostracised and expelled.
    It's true that the factionalism in the Tory party since 2016 has led to an erosion of talent, but that is a lazy analysis of why it happened. It's not so much that "round earthers" were ostracised and expelled, but that they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the decision to leave the EU.
  • Options
    PeterMPeterM Posts: 302

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    dont think its hit home to the uk people what the support for ukraine may well cost...its been a battle in a far away place...tonight it will
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,615
    Scott_xP said:

    My take on what's happened and what needs to happen next. #soundmoney

    Outlier Britain needs a credible economic plan in a hurry https://www.ft.com/content/5f4386ea-b384-46d9-9767-14a2da77d1e5

    The FT article -the need for a credible economic plan - includes this glorious line (about the CoE)

    "He needs to demonstrate how the NHS can deliver the increase in activity necessary to cut waiting times, without increasing spending further."

    Good luck with that one. This modest aim is one of a plethora of immediate demands for massive change at no cost to anyone. But answers on a postcard to this first modest one would be, I am sure, welcome at Number 11.
  • Options
    The pro-annexation concert on Red Square is in full swing. Ivan Okhlobystin, the star of the Russian version of Scrubs, is saying that Kharkiv, Odesa, Mykolayiv, and other cities in "Russian Ukraine" are next to be annexed

    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1575863539939823616
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky: "Ukraine was and remains a leader in negotiation efforts." However...

    "It is obvious this is impossible with this Russian president. He does not know what dignity and honesty is. Therefore, we are ready for dialogue with Russia, but with another Russian president."
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575852889225953282

    Putin also admitting today that the Referendums were fixed.

    "The people have voted and made their choice. The only choice."

    The only choice.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    That YouGov poll looking less like an outlier:
    @Omnisis 30 Sep 32pt Lab lead
    @PeoplePolling 29 Sep 30pts
    @Survation 29 Sep 21pts
    @techneUK 28-29 Sep 20pts
    @YouGov 28-29 Sep 33pts
    @RedfieldWilton 28-29 Sep 17pts
    @DeltapollUK 27-29 Sep 19pts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1575859211195777024/photo/1

    Omnisis? Who are they?
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    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    Presumably you're fully jabbed?

    I was the similar - thought "this is a bad cold, a bit off my food" so took a test and was positive. Worst symptoms over pretty quickly, but felt a bit under the weather for a few weeks.
    Oh yes - fully jabbed and boosted. I spent the last two days drinking tea and eating toast, but I felt much better today so I made mushroom soup for lunch and an contemplating chicken for dinner.

    I guess I shall have to stay away from others for a few more days
  • Options

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    Great idea. Truss comes on TV. "Very serious situation. We stand with Ukraine who are at war with Russia. Parts of Ukraine have been stolen and we won't stop until Ukraine recovers them.

    We can go from people worrying about:
    "How do I heat my home" to
    "How do I keep my home" to
    "How do we stop my home being nuked"

    Vote Conservative.
  • Options
    PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky: "Ukraine was and remains a leader in negotiation efforts." However...

    "It is obvious this is impossible with this Russian president. He does not know what dignity and honesty is. Therefore, we are ready for dialogue with Russia, but with another Russian president."
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575852889225953282

    Putin also admitting today that the Referendums were fixed.

    "The people have voted and made their choice. The only choice."

    The only choice.
    ah my favourite hampstead liberal has finally realised the referendums were fixed...well done sir
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,800

    Scott_xP said:

    That YouGov poll looking less like an outlier:
    @Omnisis 30 Sep 32pt Lab lead
    @PeoplePolling 29 Sep 30pts
    @Survation 29 Sep 21pts
    @techneUK 28-29 Sep 20pts
    @YouGov 28-29 Sep 33pts
    @RedfieldWilton 28-29 Sep 17pts
    @DeltapollUK 27-29 Sep 19pts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1575859211195777024/photo/1

    Omnisis? Who are they?
    Small fry.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    That YouGov poll looking less like an outlier:
    @Omnisis 30 Sep 32pt Lab lead
    @PeoplePolling 29 Sep 30pts
    @Survation 29 Sep 21pts
    @techneUK 28-29 Sep 20pts
    @YouGov 28-29 Sep 33pts
    @RedfieldWilton 28-29 Sep 17pts
    @DeltapollUK 27-29 Sep 19pts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1575859211195777024/photo/1

    Omnisis? Who are they?
    They’re new. BPC registered
  • Options

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    Best wishes. Hope it’s a mild one.
    Thanks. I thought it was just a cold
  • Options

    Seems highly unlikely that NATO will let Ukraine join NATO overnight.

    Nevertheless, Putin’s annexations will receive some kind of response, presumably that is the announcement this evening.

    Indeed it might even be some prep for the off ramp. Any negotiation has to have as a precondition Ukraine membership of NATO (I.e if you try this on again in a few years Vlad, you’re not going any further).

    Not sure we’re at that stage yet, mind.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    If rumours online are correct it looks like Ukraine could be under NATO protection quite shortly.

    Your move, Vlad....

    (Can I suggest you move your troops back to pre September 30th 2022 Russian borders?)
    Or better still, the 2013 borders.
    Same thing.
    Crimea.
    Nobody sane accepts Crimea is part of Russia.
    We're talking about Putin, not about sane people.

    (And your original comment implied the borders changed today.)
  • Options

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    You must be kind to yourself and rest

    Hope you soon recover
  • Options
    I'm under the weather too. Fatigue and mild cold symptoms.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Russian conscripts: Fat Lad seems to have one slipper, one sandal. Only one has boots.

    https://twitter.com/m_kollmorgen/status/1575863974117380096/photo/1
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    TOPPING said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    HSBC release statement warn mass forced house sales as mortgage rise by £6,000 ps

    Truss needs to go now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-warns-mass-forced-sales-mortgage-costs-jump-5000-year/

    I'll quote 1 paragraph

    Households coming to the end of a fixed-term deal will soon face increases of around £5,000 a year. Before Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng’s statement last Friday analysts were expecting repayments to rise by £3,500.

    So Kwasi's statement has removed £125 a month (or 1 / 2 nights out a month) from household budgets....
    Yet more evidence that traders are a bit slow and just follow the herd, which sadly in 2022 often means Twitter plays a role too.
    Are you saying that "traders" should have taken a politician's word at face value?

    Interesting take.
    No. Can’t you read? Which word are you struggling with?

    Edit - just seen you clipped why I wrote to wilfully misrepresent it. Twat.
    He does that sometimes. Just chill and be the better man.
    You always did strike me as a pushing from the back kind of guy.
    Just uncomfortable at you being called a "twat". Not nice to see, however understandable.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385

    I'm under the weather too. Fatigue and mild cold symptoms.

    Plenty of weather to be under at the moment. I'm admiring high winds and driving rain.

    Lots of this would be just what we need. 42.63% of electricity from wind power right now.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582
    edited September 2022

    Zelensky response: He says Ukraine is de facto part of NATO alliance. “Today, Ukraine is applying to make it de jure… We are taking our decisive step by signing Ukraine's application for accelerated accession to NATO.”

    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575848676634726400

    Worth bringing this back out.
    https://twitter.com/darthputinkgb/status/1524714109073297409
    Does Putin get NATO Salesman of the Year, or what?

    Or is that waiting on Switzerland and China applying?
  • Options

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    Yes. Which is why a message from the country's leadership is important at a time like this. Will the public give Truss a fair hearing on a different topic, or will they recoil?
  • Options

    I'm under the weather too. Fatigue and mild cold symptoms.

    Yes. I thought it was just a cold. Came down with it on Tuesday night, but it is all over now.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    Yes. Which is why a message from the country's leadership is important at a time like this. Will the public give Truss a fair hearing on a different topic, or will they recoil?
    She had a fair trial.

    She was found guilty.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,823

    Nine council by-elections last night

    Lab gain from Con
    Con hold x2
    Lab hold
    LDm hold x3
    PC hold
    Ind hold

    Good week/Bad Week Index

    LDm +172
    Lab +72
    PC +51
    Con +13
    Grn -2
    SNP -18

    Adjusted Seat Value

    LDm +2.2
    Lab +1.2
    PC +0.9
    Con +0.2
    Grn -0.0
    SNP -0.3

    Why doesn't adjusted seat value sum to zero? Is seat inflation out of control too?
    The 'value' of each seat is different for each party, based on their strength on the council, the history in that ward, and the vote share they have got historically.
    Presumably also net losses by independent or others?
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,150

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Brexit, essentially.

    The ruling class since 2016 (including multiple media outriders) simply chose to believe the world was flat.

    Round earthers were ostracised and expelled.
    It's true that the factionalism in the Tory party since 2016 has led to an erosion of talent, but that is a lazy analysis of why it happened. It's not so much that "round earthers" were ostracised and expelled, but that they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the decision to leave the EU.
    It's interesting that "Conservatives" who, one might argue, "conservatively" supported the status quo can be characterised as "radicalised", while the section of the party that were until that time regarded as the vocal fringe (variously "lunatics" and "bastards") have become all that remains of it.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited September 2022

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    You must be kind to yourself and rest

    Hope you soon recover
    Thank you. I think I already have. I am doing my normal stuff although I must make a pot of FUD broth in order to fortify myself :D:D

    I guess I will not be getting my autumn booster....
  • Options

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    Yes. Which is why a message from the country's leadership is important at a time like this. Will the public give Truss a fair hearing on a different topic, or will they recoil?
    Not so sure - its better to be talking behind the scenes and not give Putin any ammo
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    If rumours online are correct it looks like Ukraine could be under NATO protection quite shortly.

    Your move, Vlad....

    (Can I suggest you move your troops back to pre September 30th 2022 Russian borders?)
    Or better still, the 2013 borders.
    Same thing.
    Crimea.
    Nobody sane accepts Crimea is part of Russia.
    I believe that Crimea is part of Greater Ukraine. Which encompasses most of Russia.

    Does that count?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    PeterM said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky: "Ukraine was and remains a leader in negotiation efforts." However...

    "It is obvious this is impossible with this Russian president. He does not know what dignity and honesty is. Therefore, we are ready for dialogue with Russia, but with another Russian president."
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575852889225953282

    Putin also admitting today that the Referendums were fixed.

    "The people have voted and made their choice. The only choice."

    The only choice.
    ah my favourite hampstead liberal has finally realised the referendums were fixed...well done sir
    Well we all knew - but for Putin to admit it? Wow.

    It's that gangster hubris again, I suppose. Be the death of him one day.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    If rumours online are correct it looks like Ukraine could be under NATO protection quite shortly.

    Your move, Vlad....

    (Can I suggest you move your troops back to pre September 30th 2022 Russian borders?)
    Or better still, the 2013 borders.
    Same thing.
    Crimea.
    Nobody sane accepts Crimea is part of Russia.
    I believe that Crimea is part of Greater Ukraine. Which encompasses most of Russia.

    Does that count?
    We'll see what NATO has to say on the matter.....
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,517
    edited September 2022

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    Yes. Which is why a message from the country's leadership is important at a time like this. Will the public give Truss a fair hearing on a different topic, or will they recoil?
    Unless I’ve missed something there’s been no significant development other than Ukraines application for a fast track membership of NATO. Presumably that application now needs to be considered, so there are no security guarantees as yet and therefore no need for la Truss to speak to the nation?

    Although if we’re expecting her to give any kind of speech of that nature you can bet your bottom dollar it will be the least reassuring thing ever. “Some of you may die, but that’s a price I’m willing to pay.”
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Brexit, essentially.

    The ruling class since 2016 (including multiple media outriders) simply chose to believe the world was flat.

    Round earthers were ostracised and expelled.
    It's true that the factionalism in the Tory party since 2016 has led to an erosion of talent, but that is a lazy analysis of why it happened. It's not so much that "round earthers" were ostracised and expelled, but that they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the decision to leave the EU.
    They couldn't reconcile themselves to the earth being flat. The Tory party can't accommodate people who refuse to believe hard enough.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    edited September 2022

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    You must be kind to yourself and rest

    Hope you soon recover
    Thank you. I think I already have. I am doing my normal stuff although I must make a pot of FUD broth in order to fortify myself :D:D

    I guess I will not be getting my autumn booster....
    I think you will as long as you recover soon
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    PeterM said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky: "Ukraine was and remains a leader in negotiation efforts." However...

    "It is obvious this is impossible with this Russian president. He does not know what dignity and honesty is. Therefore, we are ready for dialogue with Russia, but with another Russian president."
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1575852889225953282

    Putin also admitting today that the Referendums were fixed.

    "The people have voted and made their choice. The only choice."

    The only choice.
    ah my favourite hampstead liberal has finally realised the referendums were fixed...well done sir
    Well we all knew - but for Putin to admit it? Wow.

    It's that gangster hubris again, I suppose. Be the death of him one day.
    Fingers crossed it's sooner rather than later.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,800

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    If rumours online are correct it looks like Ukraine could be under NATO protection quite shortly.

    Your move, Vlad....

    (Can I suggest you move your troops back to pre September 30th 2022 Russian borders?)
    Or better still, the 2013 borders.
    Same thing.
    Crimea.
    Nobody sane accepts Crimea is part of Russia.
    I believe that Crimea is part of Greater Ukraine. Which encompasses most of Russia.

    Does that count?
    The people of Crimea certainly do see themselves as quite Russian. Probably not this Russia though.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,316
    Sean_F said:

    kamski said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-congressional-vote-7361.html

    O/T but for those betting on the House, the generic vote has shifted back towards the Republicans.

    Yebbut... that includes a +5% for GOP from, er, Trafalgar.

    538 has the overall +1.2% for the Dems
    It does, but there are worse-rated pollsters than Trafalgar included in both averages.

    Even a 1.2% Democratic lead would produce a Republican majority of 10-15.
    538 have this:
    "Republicans are favored to win a majority of seats if they win the popular vote by at least 0.4 points"

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/house/?cid=rrpromo

    which might not make sense, but it's been fairly consistent in this year's House forecast.
    I think 538 are wrong.

    Sean Trende has crunched the numbers, No change on 2020 would probably put the Republicans on 224 seats.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/09/29/setting_expectations_for_the_house_in_2022_midterms.html
    Haven't read it properly but isn't that simply assuming universal swing since 2020? I'm assuming 538's model takes into account things like opinion polls
  • Options
    PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    Pro-Kremlin blogger Vladlen Tatarsky in the Kremlin Grand Hall adds his commentary after Putin's speech:

    "We'll conquer everyone, we'll kill everyone, we'll loot whoever we need to, and everything will be just as we like it."

    https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1575850093995257856?s=20&t=cs2L1WQI5Ls7s4LUaP_-gA
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    Yes. Which is why a message from the country's leadership is important at a time like this. Will the public give Truss a fair hearing on a different topic, or will they recoil?
    She had a fair trial.

    She was found guilty.
    Not quite unanimous though - majority verdict. Bart was on the jury.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Brexit, essentially.

    The ruling class since 2016 (including multiple media outriders) simply chose to believe the world was flat.

    Round earthers were ostracised and expelled.
    It's true that the factionalism in the Tory party since 2016 has led to an erosion of talent, but that is a lazy analysis of why it happened. It's not so much that "round earthers" were ostracised and expelled, but that they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the decision to leave the EU.
    I feel your last sentence should read "... they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the Earth being flat"
  • Options

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    If Putin bombed the UK, people would react with rage against Russia, not regret for supporting Ukraine.
  • Options
    PeterM said:

    Pro-Kremlin blogger Vladlen Tatarsky in the Kremlin Grand Hall adds his commentary after Putin's speech:

    "We'll conquer everyone, we'll kill everyone, we'll loot whoever we need to, and everything will be just as we like it."

    https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1575850093995257856?s=20&t=cs2L1WQI5Ls7s4LUaP_-gA

    Tell that to my 2 week old granddaughter
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    HSBC release statement warn mass forced house sales as mortgage rise by £6,000 ps

    Truss needs to go now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-warns-mass-forced-sales-mortgage-costs-jump-5000-year/

    The government cannot underwrite everybody's bloody mortgage. Changes in mortgage rates are a known risk. There may be lots of reasons for her to go but this is simply not one.
    If you read the article there are £1500 reasons for her to go....
    What, the PM should go because mortgage rates go up 1%. I mean, are you serious?
    Thanks to her ill considered plans, botched announcements and cack-handed approach she will have nearly doubled mortgage rates from 2.7% to 5.5%

    If she had kept her big gob shut and let the OBR do its job then this would not be happening.
    She is incompetent and she has made a very bad situation worse but a major part of our problem was the failure of the BoE to follow the Fed with a 0.75% increase in rates about 10 days ago. Sterling was already under continuous pressure before the episode of loony tunes last week. This was aggravating inflation, not least in fuel costs, and was a clear breach of the Bank's mandate. The era of ultra low interest rates is at an end and there is nothing the government can do about it.
    Bound to be painful coming off a 15 year trip on cheap money and QE so let's do it as carefully as possible, mitigate the pain, spread it out, try to steer it at those most able to take a hit. Truss is doing the dead opposite of this. Rushed, chaotic, incoherent, the affluent sheltered and everyone else taking the brunt. Wrong on every level.
    To take a medical analogy...

    Post lockdown, most people needed to become less wobbly. But the way to start that process was with some gentle limbering up wearing looseish clothing. Truss is sending us out in running kit that doesn't really fit any more, to do timed runs, whilst carrying millionaires in Sedan chairs because they need to be cosseted.

    It might be OK, but it seems unlikely.
    With no mandate.

    (I've decided to have this as my standing order ps)
  • Options

    Presumably Hungary under Orban will block Ukraine membership of NATO? Not sure what Turkey will say on it either (although Erdogan has told Russia to get out of Ukraine, so maybe he is not going to block it?)

    Don't think so. Too much pressure & "mitigation" from Joe Biden and USA methinks for these fuckers to block.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    No sense whatever of an imminent U-turn in Downing Street on Budget. One source says: 'We've got an 80-seat majority and we've done nothing with it. We have an opportunity now to push through reforms to things that have been holding Britain back for years. If not now, when?'
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1575866749106327552

    They have gone full tonto...
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    TOPPING said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    HSBC release statement warn mass forced house sales as mortgage rise by £6,000 ps

    Truss needs to go now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-warns-mass-forced-sales-mortgage-costs-jump-5000-year/

    I'll quote 1 paragraph

    Households coming to the end of a fixed-term deal will soon face increases of around £5,000 a year. Before Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng’s statement last Friday analysts were expecting repayments to rise by £3,500.

    So Kwasi's statement has removed £125 a month (or 1 / 2 nights out a month) from household budgets....
    Yet more evidence that traders are a bit slow and just follow the herd, which sadly in 2022 often means Twitter plays a role too.
    Are you saying that "traders" should have taken a politician's word at face value?

    Interesting take.
    No. Can’t you read? Which word are you struggling with?

    Edit - just seen you clipped why I wrote to wilfully misrepresent it. Twat.
    He does that sometimes. Just chill and be the better man.
    You always did strike me as a pushing from the back kind of guy.
    Just uncomfortable at you being called a "twat". Not nice to see, however understandable.
    Twat.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,460
    edited September 2022
    ydoethur said:

    I'm under the weather too. Fatigue and mild cold symptoms.

    Plenty of weather to be under at the moment. I'm admiring high winds and driving rain.

    Lots of this would be just what we need. 42.63% of electricity from wind power right now.
    Seems we're exporting around 12% too.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    No sense whatever of an imminent U-turn in Downing Street on Budget. One source says: 'We've got an 80-seat majority and we've done nothing with it. We have an opportunity now to push through reforms to things that have been holding Britain back for years. If not now, when?'
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1575866749106327552

    They have gone full tonto...

    Then it is upto conservative mps to vote it down and demand Truss resignation along with the inept Kwarteng
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Scott_xP said:

    Confirms that Truss and Kwarteng can’t turn things around, in my view
    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1575843389756829701

    Ha ha like Mark Carney wants to be Permanent Secretary at the Treasury. Maybe we can tempt Barack Obama over to serve as UK Ambassador to Bhutan and install Tom Cruise as number three at DCMS while we're at it. Why is everyone even remotely connected to this government a total moron?
    Brexit, essentially.

    The ruling class since 2016 (including multiple media outriders) simply chose to believe the world was flat.

    Round earthers were ostracised and expelled.
    It's true that the factionalism in the Tory party since 2016 has led to an erosion of talent, but that is a lazy analysis of why it happened. It's not so much that "round earthers" were ostracised and expelled, but that they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the decision to leave the EU.
    I feel your last sentence should read "... they radicalised themselves into opposition because they couldn't reconcile themselves to the Earth being flat"
    I mean, the decision to leave the EU is a fact, so...
  • Options
    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Shame, I'm sure they would welcome him to Lyman.

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov says Putin doesn't intend to travel to the newly annexed territories for the time being

    Apparently he has "lots of work" at the moment
    interfax.ru/russia/865730

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1575867693395480576
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,799

    Presumably Hungary under Orban will block Ukraine membership of NATO? Not sure what Turkey will say on it either (although Erdogan has told Russia to get out of Ukraine, so maybe he is not going to block it?)

    Don't think so. Too much pressure & "mitigation" from Joe Biden and USA methinks for these fuckers to block.
    I saw somewhere that Hungary are in the process of going bust, one more story lost somewhere in the general chaos...
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    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Russian sources claim that Russian 503rd regiment from Kreminna has been dispatched to Torske, presumably to help withdrawing the troops but I have my doubts. A bit late for that. Likely only a (tiny) morale boost to hold the line. #Lyman #Ukraine

    https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1575851452509040641
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,913

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    You must be kind to yourself and rest

    Hope you soon recover
    Thank you. I think I already have. I am doing my normal stuff although I must make a pot of FUD broth in order to fortify myself :D:D

    I guess I will not be getting my autumn booster....
    Why not the booster? Flu jab too at the same time.
  • Options
    PeterMPeterM Posts: 302

    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    If Putin bombed the UK, people would react with rage against Russia, not regret for supporting Ukraine.
    by that time it wouldnt matter the uk would be an irradiated wasteland and i would be hunting rats for food
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    edited September 2022

    Russian conscripts: Fat Lad seems to have one slipper, one sandal. Only one has boots.

    https://twitter.com/m_kollmorgen/status/1575863974117380096/photo/1

    "The one with the rifle shoots! The one without follows him! When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots!"
  • Options
    StarryStarry Posts: 105
    Scott_xP said:

    No sense whatever of an imminent U-turn in Downing Street on Budget. One source says: 'We've got an 80-seat majority and we've done nothing with it. We have an opportunity now to push through reforms to things that have been holding Britain back for years. If not now, when?'
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1575866749106327552

    They have gone full tonto...

    So the Cabinet may think. They may all be Tories but the majority are not Truss-ed up.
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    glw said:

    PeterM said:

    does that mean if russia is continuing the war they are attacking nato then...thats ww3

    I think the intention is that Ukraine will have the same sort of protection that Sweden and Finland currently do. As an applicant there will be a series of multilateral security agreements.

    So if occupied Ukraine is "Russia", unoccupied Ukraine is de facto NATO or as near as dammit.

    Apparently there are going to be some big announcements this evening.
    If the UK is providing security guarantees to Ukraine, while it's at war, I'd expect an address to the nation from Truss this evening.

    An interesting moment. To what extent would voters compartmentalise their contempt for Truss over the budget from their instinctive support for Ukraine?
    instinctive support for Ukraine is not the same as risking death and bombs raining on the UK for it
    Yes. Which is why a message from the country's leadership is important at a time like this. Will the public give Truss a fair hearing on a different topic, or will they recoil?
    Unless I’ve missed something there’s been no significant development other than Ukraines application for a fast track membership of NATO. Presumably that application now needs to be considered, so there are no security guarantees as yet and therefore no need for la Truss to speak to the nation?

    Although if we’re expecting her to give any kind of speech of that nature you can bet your bottom dollar it will be the least reassuring thing ever. “Some of you may die, but that’s a price I’m willing to pay.”
    Finland and Sweden received security guarantees before they applied to join NATO. If NATO doesn't immediately rebuff Ukraine's application then I'd expect some sort of security guarantee for Ukraine before the end of the day.

    Logically then Russia is given a deadline by which to stop firing and to withdraw from Ukrainian territory.
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    PB Tories who spent a few days telling us how good Truss was, hope we never look at their posting history ever again
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    Interesting how in just a few days, stout defenders of Liz Truss and her fiscal "strategy" and "tactics" have gone from full-on Kool-Aid guzzling, to . . . not much of anything really . . .

    Liz Truss - highly unreliable support for whatever it is you think she's supporting.

    Turns out she's way better at CREATING ruptures rather than preventing them.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    kamski said:

    Sean_F said:

    kamski said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-congressional-vote-7361.html

    O/T but for those betting on the House, the generic vote has shifted back towards the Republicans.

    Yebbut... that includes a +5% for GOP from, er, Trafalgar.

    538 has the overall +1.2% for the Dems
    It does, but there are worse-rated pollsters than Trafalgar included in both averages.

    Even a 1.2% Democratic lead would produce a Republican majority of 10-15.
    538 have this:
    "Republicans are favored to win a majority of seats if they win the popular vote by at least 0.4 points"

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/house/?cid=rrpromo

    which might not make sense, but it's been fairly consistent in this year's House forecast.
    I think 538 are wrong.

    Sean Trende has crunched the numbers, No change on 2020 would probably put the Republicans on 224 seats.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/09/29/setting_expectations_for_the_house_in_2022_midterms.html
    Haven't read it properly but isn't that simply assuming universal swing since 2020? I'm assuming 538's model takes into account things like opinion polls
    There is so little polling at individual Congressional seat level that it makes no difference.

    538's model takes into account generic polling and Presidential approval ratings.

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    Carnyx said:

    I have been feeling a bit under the weather over the last few days, so I took a covid test and it was positive.

    I have finally caught the plague. :open_mouth:

    You must be kind to yourself and rest

    Hope you soon recover
    Thank you. I think I already have. I am doing my normal stuff although I must make a pot of FUD broth in order to fortify myself :D:D

    I guess I will not be getting my autumn booster....
    Why not the booster? Flu jab too at the same time.
    Because if you have just had covid they do not give you the booster. I was asked last time I had my booster - you had to have been clear of covid for 6 months
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780

    I'm under the weather too. Fatigue and mild cold symptoms.

    Yes. I thought it was just a cold. Came down with it on Tuesday night, *but it is all over now*.
    It must have been love ...



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