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Normal politics will resume after the funeral – politicalbetting.com

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  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    I am convinced Her Maj clung on enough to see shot of him.

    God Bless Her.
    It is, at least in folk belief, a real thing that people hang on to see their 100th birthday or grandson's wedding etc and then fade; and there is solid science saying that, adjusting for confounders, people on annuities outlive people who aren't.
    I’m absolutely certain my old man stayed on, after I’d been told to go to the hospital to say good bye twice, just until we could move him back to his wonderful care home so he could die there rather than in a hospital bed. Humans definitely have that thing in them to push that little more even when they know they are going to lose which is good.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,244
    kle4 said:


    1) Sure they probably need to tread carefully, but its fair to say anyone with pro-Russian sensibilities would probably be in for a bad time if Ukraine recaptures those areas, which is clearly not certain. In any case whatever the level of sentiment they were never given an actual choice as to whether they wanted Russian forces to roll in, or to keep them.

    2) Crimea was clearly much more pro-Russian, hence why it got absorbed officially and the other areas were not. Can Ukraine really ever be likely to take it back?

    3) If the borders were restored fully presumably everyone would feel more comfortable bringing them properly into NATO, but if the boundaries are still in dispute at some area the same reluctance would seem to apply, since it would mean no just supplying them if attacked, but actively defending.

    Thanks for the response.

    1) I don't disagree but it's likely Russian disinformation will be at work and will demonise the Ukrainians leading to an exodus of pro-Russians. That's Putin's responsibility not Zelenskyy's but the latter will be left with the consequences of the likely humanitarian disaster of a mass migration in winter.

    2) MY solution would be UN peacekeepers and a UN organised plebiscite to ask the Crimean people what they want.

    3) Indeed - I suspect we'll end up with a lot of this unresolved and the Ukrainians constantly having to keep an eye to the east.

    I'm also wondering what the political impact of a Russian defeat might be on Belarus - is there any chance we could see the end of their odious tyrant?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,716
    stodge said:

    On to more serious matters - the Ukraine.

    Plenty of reports (presumably more than wishful thinking) suggesting the Ukrainians are making headway against the Russians which is all to the good.

    I'm left though with three questions/issues as and when there's talk of peace or victory.

    First, there's Donetsk and Luhansk - whether we like it or not, there were those in both regions who preferred Russian rule to Ukrainian rule. Whether that's the case now or not I don't know but even if Ukraine is able to recapture the whole of the Donbas, they will need to tread carefully in respect of the inhabitants of these areas assuming of course the approach of the Ukrainians doesn't lead to a mass migration out of the region into Russia and a probable humanitarian disaster which will be yet another crime to which Putin will need to answer.

    Second, Crimea - again, whether we like it or not, we cannot equate anti-Russian sentiment to pro-Ukrainian. The added complication is the naval base at Sebastopol which Russia leased from the Ukraine - it's hard to see how Russia abandons such an asset to an enemy. Whether it would do so to a wholly independent Crimean State is another question but it's one which will need to be addressed.

    Third - we've spoken of a defeated Russia but what of a victorious Ukraine? Do we bring them into NATO with all that follows - what of a possibly independent Crimea? In any case, the priority will be the economic reconstruction of eastern and south eastern Ukraine which is going to take huge amounts of money and
    time.

    Ukraine would have shown itself to be a vital western ally. So yes, absolutely. No issues about money.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    I am convinced Her Maj clung on enough to see shot of him.

    God Bless Her.
    I have visions of as he left she said 'oh, and Boris? Prorogation and lying to me? That royally pissed me off'
  • FossFoss Posts: 567
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    No pussies under the table. Though no bears in the woods. (Jammy sod.)
    I STRONGLY recommend this corner of the world. For a start it’s bloody cheap

    And it’s a world class dreamy coastline




    That looks almost Cornish.
  • kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    I'll let BigG take that one!
    With a gentle reminder that Wales is a beautiful country with a great welcome
    They should of course do the investiture. It's a nice thing to do and throws a much needed tourism spotlight on Wales.
    Most of us are reconciled to being England's oldest colony. We just don't see why they have to hold yet another victory parade after 700 years. Reeks of insecurity.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,373
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    Queen is all over "UK is broken" New York Times.

    Both NPR and CNN have done short segments from which you’d think that US slavery was all Liz’s personal fault, but otherwise it’s talking heads interspersed with live events and looped repeats thereof, as I am sure it is back at home.

    My council tells me the funeral is likely on the 19th and official mourning, cancellations etc. will continue until then.

    Meanwhile today’s special at the local Italian restaurant just up the street is battered haddock with fries and coleslaw. Apart from having more pasta dishes than most places (including such well known Italian dishes as fried ravioli), and the Italian flag outside, it’s hard to see all that much genuinely Italian about the place.
    Given that you live nearer Italy than most of us, that seems a poor show.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    No pussies under the table. Though no bears in the woods. (Jammy sod.)
    I STRONGLY recommend this corner of the world. For a start it’s bloody cheap

    And it’s a world class dreamy coastline




    That looks almost Cornish.
    The clue is in the sky.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    My CV is very Africa heavy. Nowhere East of Delhi.
    Dude!

    No China, Japan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam Malaysia, Indonesia?!!!

    These are absolutely PEAK travel experiences. You need to go. You are still young enough to have a fabulous time
    Yes, I know. Plans afoot.
  • boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    I am convinced Her Maj clung on enough to see shot of him.

    God Bless Her.
    It is, at least in folk belief, a real thing that people hang on to see their 100th birthday or grandson's wedding etc and then fade; and there is solid science saying that, adjusting for confounders, people on annuities outlive people who aren't.
    I’m absolutely certain my old man stayed on, after I’d been told to go to the hospital to say good bye twice, just until we could move him back to his wonderful care home so he could die there rather than in a hospital bed. Humans definitely have that thing in them to push that little more even when they know they are going to lose which is good.

    Very true. As much as I love the notion of HM bestowing one last gift on her people in holding on til Boris was out of the door, I do think it is most likely she was actually holding on til the jubilee, and managed a few months of quite swift decline after that.
  • RTE - President, Taoiseach sign book of condolence for queen

    President Michael D Higgins has said Britain's Queen Elizabeth had an "extraordinary gift" in combining her long service with a capacity for connecting with people.

    President Higgins, Taoiseach Micheál Martin and Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney were among those to sign a book of condolence at the British Embassy in Dublin today. . . .

    President Higgins . . . . said the monarch had been able to bridge formal and informal roles with ease, and was able "to do what had to be done but also in a way that made just about everybody comfortable".

    He said Queen Elizabeth had "never been stuck in a rut of history in a particular period". . . .

    Taoiseach Micheál Martin said the queen's most enduring legacy in an Irish context would 'unquestionably be' the monarch's visit to Ireland in 2011.

    "I think in the context of all that has gone on between Britain and Ireland over the centuries it definitely closed one chapter and opened up a new chapter," Mr Martin said. . . .

    Former President Mary Robinson said she remembers Queen Elizabeth as a "remarkable woman" with a strong sense of integrity and purpose to serve her people.

    She described her encounters with the queen in 1993 and 1996 as "significant" moments.

    That was followed by a visit to Ireland in 2011, which Ms Robinson said there was some tension and apprehension ahead of.

    The moment the queen "bowed her head" in the Garden of Remembrance "eased everything", she said. . . .

    Speaking on RTÉ'S Six One, former President Mary McAleese, who was in the post when the queen visited Ireland in 2011 said that the late monarchs visit was "a pilgrimage in reconciliation" and that she was "very knowledgeable about Irish history". . . .

    "In private she was funny; she was a tremendous mimic and very chatty. We chatted about all sorts of things, mostly about family and about faith.

    "She never lost that internal radiance that allowed her every day of her life to go out and perform her duty in public and in service."

    Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald said Queen Elizabeth proved to be a "powerful ally" in the journey of reconciliation between Ireland and the UK as the relationship changed and continues to change.

    "No doubt in her lengthy and full life, a life full of historical moments, the queen saw and was part of very big changes," she said.

    Also speaking on Morning Ireland, Ms McDonald said there is now a "much improved and warmer and healthier relationship between our two countries".

    "I acknowledge also her loss is a very difficult moment for the people of Britain, in particularly for unionists in Ireland, it is a very big loss," she said.

    Ms McDonald said it is important for everyone across political traditions to recognise that.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0909/1321483-queen-reaction/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,148
    boulay said:

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."

    “And death, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow. and death.

    And amputations.

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations.

    And the prospect of a civil war. Yes,

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations And civil war.”


    … and a comfy chair.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,976
    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    Surprised you haven't been to Tunisia. I have. Saw a snake charmer and discovered a taste sensation egg based food item they call a "brick". Also a genuinely hairy experience in some wet boggy sand. Sank into it up to my knees.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,095
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    My CV is very Africa heavy. Nowhere East of Delhi.
    Dude!

    No China, Japan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam Malaysia, Indonesia?!!!

    These are absolutely PEAK travel experiences. You need to go. You are still young enough to have a fabulous time
    The furthest North , South , East and West of my travels are:
    Oslo, Bodrum, Bodrum and Oban.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,373

    boulay said:

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."

    “And death, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow. and death.

    And amputations.

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations.

    And the prospect of a civil war. Yes,

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations And civil war.”


    We should invite him to the funeral and let him and Biden snog it out.
    I assume that’s a typo!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 105,491
    edited September 2022
    When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh my buzz.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909

    boulay said:

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."

    “And death, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow. and death.

    And amputations.

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations.

    And the prospect of a civil war. Yes,

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations And civil war.”


    … and a comfy chair.
    Nobody expects a comfy chair.

  • Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    What's funnier, a clown OR a troll? Fielder's choice!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    edited September 2022
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    No pussies under the table. Though no bears in the woods. (Jammy sod.)
    I STRONGLY recommend this corner of the world. For a start it’s bloody cheap

    And it’s a world class dreamy coastline




    That looks almost Cornish.
    It is extremely Cornish in places

    And for a reason. Huge grandiose exposed western facing cliffs, facing the angry Atlantic. It’s the same

    Cornwall is more intricately beautiful, and far more interesting culturally and historically - there is near zero history here on the Costa Vicentina. And the food is perhaps better in Cornwall? - definitely more varied anyway

    However what you get here is wildness and emptiness and sunshine and zero development. And that, in modern Europe, is really quite something. 15km of sunburned coast without a significant hotel? Magical
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh by buzz.

    Late Spring to early summer is my guess. Late spring bank holiday perhaps, on the Friday creating a long celebratory weekend
  • When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh by buzz.

    We have a long-planned family gathering in London next weekend. Beginning to look like a write-off.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909

    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    What's funnier, a clown OR a troll? Fielder's choice!
    Well a troll is about as funny as finding out you have herpes but not sure if you caught it from Dynamo’s mum, wife or daughter and don’t know how to broach the subject.

    A clown is occasionally funny.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,373

    stodge said:


    First, there's Donetsk and Luhansk - whether we like it or not, there were those in both regions who preferred Russian rule to Ukrainian rule. Whether that's the case now or not I don't know but even if Ukraine is able to recapture the whole of the Donbas, they will need to tread carefully in respect of the inhabitants of these areas assuming of course the approach of the Ukrainians doesn't lead to a mass migration out of the region into Russia and a probable humanitarian disaster which will be yet another crime to which Putin will need to answer.

    The populations of these provinces were like 6 million people or something before the war, they'll be even lower now. Most of them were in Ukraine-controlled areas before the war. Let's exaggerate massively and imagine 10% of the populations of those provinces can't stomach being in Ukraine and decide they want to move to Russia. That's 600,000. Russia is extremely large and depopulating, they can totally take 600,000 people without a humanitarian disaster.
    I remember in the early part of the war when the maps showing refugee movements were being shown, wondering why some Ukrainians were moving to Russia, then realised they would be Russians or Russia supporters. I wonder how many are left in The Donbas?
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022
    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.
    That's from +20 to -10 for the monarchy among youngsters in two years.
    Let's have a poll now.

    image

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656

    When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh my buzz.

    Zero recent precedents, but June/July 23 surely?
  • When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh by buzz.

    We have a long-planned family gathering in London next weekend. Beginning to look like a write-off.
    It is my birthday weekend away next weekend, not in London, but I'm cancelling it as I expect the hotel staff and guests will be far too sombre.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    My CV is very Africa heavy. Nowhere East of Delhi.
    Dude!

    No China, Japan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam Malaysia, Indonesia?!!!

    These are absolutely PEAK travel experiences. You need to go. You are still young enough to have a fabulous time
    Yes, I know. Plans afoot.
    I am happy to advise if needed. I know this corner of the world VERY well
  • Charles and Liz may find a special bond: both new to their massive jobs within days of each other.

    Both feeling their way?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 105,491
    edited September 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.

    image

    Taking back control from our unelected rulers is all the rage these days.

    Even that cretin Putin has more electoral legitimacy than the House of Windsor.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh my buzz.

    Lawyers love coronations, all those frustration of contract cases arise from Ed VII's being delayed.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 159
    A pity they appointed Will as PoW. It was not neccesary. But if they think they will hold another pantomine in Caernarfon (or elswehere) they need to think again. It was chaos last time round - it would be open insurrection this tine!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh my buzz.

    Lawyers love coronations, all those frustration of contract cases arise from Ed VII's being delayed.
    Just imagine the further delays if we followed the old precedent of all cases being abandoned when we have a new monarch.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Charles and Liz may find a special bond: both new to their massive jobs within days of each other.

    Both feeling their way?

    She allegedly shares an interest with his elder son.

    Comments for this post are turned off.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604
    Dynamo said:

    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.
    That's from +20 to -10 for the monarchy among youngsters in two years.
    Let's have a poll now.

    image

    What, to bring back the Romanovs? Are there any left for you guys to crown?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 105,491
    edited September 2022
    Penddu2 said:

    A pity they appointed Will as PoW. It was not neccesary. But if they think they will hold another pantomine in Caernarfon (or elswehere) they need to think again. It was chaos last time round - it would be open insurrection this tine!

    Yes, I expect the Welsh want Mark Drakeford to be appointed Prince of Wales, he's that popular.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/28/the-prince-of-wales-of-peoples-hearts-in-peoples-hearts-and-votes/
  • Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Wait till the Coronation.
    Let's get everyone of them except Putin.

    It'll be next year, corpses don't normally attend Coronations..
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    My CV is very Africa heavy. Nowhere East of Delhi.
    Dude!

    No China, Japan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam Malaysia, Indonesia?!!!

    These are absolutely PEAK travel experiences. You need to go. You are still young enough to have a fabulous time
    Yes, I know. Plans afoot.
    I am happy to advise if needed. I know this corner of the world VERY well
    Noted, thank u.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    When is the coronation likely to be?

    I've got a holiday booked in London at the start of August 2023 and I don't want to be there when the coronation is happening as it will harsh my buzz.

    Lawyers love coronations, all those frustration of contract cases arise from Ed VII's being delayed.
    Just imagine the further delays if we followed the old precedent of all cases being abandoned when we have a new monarch.
    To no man shall justice be delayed...

    Bloody small print.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,460
    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Wait till the Coronation.
    Will more heads of state want to celebrate Charles than say farewell to Elizabeth? Or is it just the longer lead time makes it easier to plan and arrange?
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    Queen is all over "UK is broken" New York Times.

    Both NPR and CNN have done short segments from which you’d think that US slavery was all Liz’s personal fault, but otherwise it’s talking heads interspersed with live events and looped repeats thereof, as I am sure it is back at home.

    My council tells me the funeral is likely on the 19th and official mourning, cancellations etc. will continue until then.

    Meanwhile today’s special at the local Italian restaurant just up the street is battered haddock with fries and coleslaw. Apart from having more pasta dishes than most places (including such well known Italian dishes as fried ravioli), and the Italian flag outside, it’s hard to see all that much genuinely Italian about the place.
    For some reason, feel sure that you managed to avoid over-tipping the help . . .
  • Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Wait till the Coronation.
    Will more heads of state want to celebrate Charles than say farewell to Elizabeth? Or is it just the longer lead time makes it easier to plan and arrange?
    Zelenskyy will be able to come for the coronation, and every world leader will want to get a photo with him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    I’m calling it. Inflection point

    British food is now better than EU food. It’s happened
  • DougSeal said:

    Dynamo said:

    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.
    That's from +20 to -10 for the monarchy among youngsters in two years.
    Let's have a poll now.

    image

    What, to bring back the Romanovs? Are there any left for you guys to crown?

    Scarlett Johansson for Russian Tsar for her long role as Natasha Romanoff.
  • Too early?


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    56m
    There needs to be much more reflection & debate in the UK about the implications for our defence stance, future defence expenditure & required equipment of Russia no longer constituting any kind of credible conventional threat to Europe.
  • Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?
  • Too early?


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    56m
    There needs to be much more reflection & debate in the UK about the implications for our defence stance, future defence expenditure & required equipment of Russia no longer constituting any kind of credible conventional threat to Europe.

    Russia won't constitute a credible conventional threat in 2023, but how confident can we be that a new leader, post-Putin, wouldn't rebuild the Russian military, and that the US would be there to stand beside Europe to face the next act of Russian aggression?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    Queen is all over "UK is broken" New York Times.

    Both NPR and CNN have done short segments from which you’d think that US slavery was all Liz’s personal fault, but otherwise it’s talking heads interspersed with live events and looped repeats thereof, as I am sure it is back at home.

    My council tells me the funeral is likely on the 19th and official mourning, cancellations etc. will continue until then.

    Meanwhile today’s special at the local Italian restaurant just up the street is battered haddock with fries and coleslaw. Apart from having more pasta dishes than most places (including such well known Italian dishes as fried ravioli), and the Italian flag outside, it’s hard to see all that much genuinely Italian about the place.
    For some reason, feel sure that you managed to avoid over-tipping the help . . .
    :lol:
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Yes
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Wikipedia says he is.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604

    Too early?


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    56m
    There needs to be much more reflection & debate in the UK about the implications for our defence stance, future defence expenditure & required equipment of Russia no longer constituting any kind of credible conventional threat to Europe.

    That’s tempting fate.
  • Bruno Maçães
    @MacaesBruno
    ·
    42m
    Give a thought to Tucker Carlson, Vance, Vermeule, the other Vermeule and all the Russia tiffosi. Difficult day for them
  • DougSeal said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Yes
    Hurrah, I'd be so pissed if I had my title for the beautiful city of Cambridge removed and given the title for the dump that is Wales.
  • Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Yes. Apparently he is now Duke of Cornwall, Cambridge, and I believe Rothesay, as well as Prince of Wales, and several more besides according to Wikipedia.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
    Oh it is, as I pointed out this morning....

    Nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump
  • Seems more strange to think we now have a Princess of Wales again than a new Prince of Wales.
  • Seems more strange to think we now have a Princess of Wales again than a new Prince of Wales.

    We've had a Princess of Wales since 2005 but for obvious reasons the ***** consort never used that title.
  • DougSeal said:

    Too early?


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    56m
    There needs to be much more reflection & debate in the UK about the implications for our defence stance, future defence expenditure & required equipment of Russia no longer constituting any kind of credible conventional threat to Europe.

    That’s tempting fate.
    True, but regardless of what happens within Russia, having a strong Ukraine definitively outside the Russian sphere fundamentally changes the equation in itself.
  • Dynamo said:

    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.
    That's from +20 to -10 for the monarchy among youngsters in two years.
    Let's have a poll now.

    image

    The last numbers were well before the single speech that has apparently transformed Charles from a wannabe tampon to the King of British hearts.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
    Oh it is, as I pointed out this morning....

    Nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump
    There's the efficient, and the dignified parts of government

    Efficient - Merton College Oxford

    Dignified - work it out for yourself
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,460

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Cambridge and Cornwall I think the BBC said. Or the other way round.
  • Seems more strange to think we now have a Princess of Wales again than a new Prince of Wales.

    We've had a Princess of Wales since 2005 but for obvious reasons the ***** consort never used that title.
    She was explicitly not given the title, wasn't she?
  • Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Cambridge and Cornwall I think the BBC said. Or the other way round.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11196353/The-Queens-death-Royal-Familys-titles-change.html
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Seems more strange to think we now have a Princess of Wales again than a new Prince of Wales.

    We've had a Princess of Wales since 2005 but for obvious reasons the ***** consort never used that title.
    She was explicitly not given the title, wasn't she?
    Naah, she got it automatically, decided not to use it.
  • Seems more strange to think we now have a Princess of Wales again than a new Prince of Wales.

    We've had a Princess of Wales since 2005 but for obvious reasons the ***** consort never used that title.
    She was explicitly not given the title, wasn't she?
    She was given the title but she never used it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,110

    Seems more strange to think we now have a Princess of Wales again than a new Prince of Wales.

    We've had a Princess of Wales since 2005 but for obvious reasons the ***** consort never used that title.
    She was explicitly not given the title, wasn't she?
    No, she was Princess of Wales, it was just never used.
  • Fair enough but it will be still strange to hear that term in use again.
  • Penddu2 said:

    A pity they appointed Will as PoW. It was not neccesary. But if they think they will hold another pantomine in Caernarfon (or elswehere) they need to think again. It was chaos last time round - it would be open insurrection this tine!

    Really? Was under the impression, that Welsh nationalism is about as stale as year-old salt-water taffy.

    Speaking of nationalism, has anyone noticed yet, that the Province of Quebec is holding a general election next month?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Quebec_general_election

    AND that the two leading contenders are NOT the (until-recently) the traditional major provincial parties in Quebec, namely the Liberals (federalist) and Parti Québécois(separatist)?

    Instead, the main contenders are

    > Coalition Avenir Québec, currently the ruling party, which is traditional "bleu" conservative: that is, "nationaliste" meaning the fullest possible autonomy WITHIN Canada, NOT independence FROM Canada.

    > Québec solidaire, a progressive left-wing party, which is officially separatist HOWEVER is composed of people who disagreed both with PQ obsession with independence as well as tendency to disparage (and worse) immigrants, Native Canadians and (even) Anglophones in name of narrow Québécois nationalism.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    I’m calling it. Inflection point

    British food is now better than EU food. It’s happened

    Twas ever thus. In the depths of a raging winter as the Robins all tuck themselves under their wings, on the stove, steaming all day under a muslin, sits the richest beef suet pudding. That mighty monarch of hearty fayre. I'm glad to be home, safe by the hearth as Mother serves up, here in merry olde England.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Dynamo said:
    Why is that? Your own post shows clear public support for the monarchy. If your contention is the rapid decline in support among the young will be sustained, then you should be arguing 'let's have a poll in 25 years'.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    IshmaelZ said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
    Oh it is, as I pointed out this morning....

    Nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.
    His maternal grandmother was the first female Cambridge graduate, receiving an honorary degree there in 1948. It's not exactly great for the Cambridge brand, letting royal dipsticks in. Hats off to Oxford for refusing Thatcher an honorary degree in 1985.
  • Is Camilla now Her Majesty?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,110

    Is Camilla now Her Majesty?

    Yes.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604

    Is Camilla now Her Majesty?

    Yes
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Wait till the Coronation.
    Will more heads of state want to celebrate Charles than say farewell to Elizabeth? Or is it just the longer lead time makes it easier to plan and arrange?
    Zelenskyy will be able to come for the coronation, and every world leader will want to get a photo with him.
    I still think from a Ukrainian perspective he would adopt a 'I shall not leave until Ukraine is liberated' approach. He's still in his wartime outfits, he might stand out a bit in the Abbey.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 555
    edited September 2022

    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    What's funnier, a clown OR a troll? Fielder's choice!
    Incidentally, they don't seem so allergic to reminders of clowns as to have got rid of the Edward VII postbox just down the road from here in Killarney -- they merely painted it green...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477
    Leon said:

    I’m calling it. Inflection point

    British food is now better than EU food. It’s happened

    Had any tripe yet? Famous in Porto. According to folklore, they were so poor after the earthquake they had to sell all their good meat, cured, to Lisbon, and keep only the offal for themselves.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,338

    Dynamo said:

    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.
    That's from +20 to -10 for the monarchy among youngsters in two years.
    Let's have a poll now.

    image

    The last numbers were well before the single speech that has apparently transformed Charles from a wannabe tampon to the King of British hearts.
    Interesting. Perhaps such a change could perhaps be explained by rising awareness of the 'horrors of colonialism', or the popular narrative of such that we saw emerge in 2020.

    To be fair though, I was a republican up to and beyond age 24; the national obsession with the Royal family used to drive me mad. Eventually I got to the point where I conceded it works, there is no point changing it; which is basically still what I think, but I have also come to appreciate the historical significance of the royal family and the continuity it represents.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    kle4 said:

    Dynamo said:
    Why is that? Your own post shows clear public support for the monarchy. If your contention is the rapid decline in support among the young will be sustained, then you should be arguing 'let's have a poll in 25 years'.
    Only because then we'd get some hopefully good estimates of what level of support there is now for retaining the monarchy, including among different age groups. What's the problem?
  • Re: the Funeral of QEII and the Coronation of KCIII, am wondering IF the "Secret President" will attempt to crash either or both?

    Certainly FORMER POTUSes have been guests at previous Royal anointments and undertakings.

    For example, former President Theodore Roosevelt at funeral of EVII.

    Believe it was on that occasion, that Kaiser Bill made even more of a exhibition of himself than per usual. By trying to upstage his late uncle!
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 555
    edited September 2022
    darkage said:

    To be fair though, I was a republican up to and beyond age 24; the national obsession with the Royal family used to drive me mad. Eventually I got to the point where I conceded it works, there is no point changing it; which is basically still what I think, but I have also come to appreciate the historical significance of the royal family and the continuity it represents.

    Yeah, I've followed a similar trajectory, though perhaps not yet quite so far. Certainly I think as a nation we have more important fish to fry than dumping the monarchy. I find it a bit disappointing that Royal stories sell papers; but I think that also about celeb stories more generally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    biggles said:

    I doubt in Liz Truss's wildest imagination could she ever have expected to deliver that reading, just 3 days after becoming Prime Minister.

    My wife has just said she is really growing into her role.

    According to Beth Rigby, SKS delivered the greatest speech since the Gettysburg address in parliament
    She went on a bizarre fangirling spree
    The Gettysburg address was a bit pants to be honest. No new policies and a lack of detail on how anything was to be funded.

    Actually, that was the reaction at the time. The New York Times said 'anything more dull and commonplace it would be hard to find' while the Boston Herald talked about 'the president's silly remarks.'
  • pm215 said:

    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    What's funnier, a clown OR a troll? Fielder's choice!
    Incidentally, they don't seem so allergic to reminders of clowns as to have got rid of the Edward VII postbox just down the road from here in Killarney -- they merely painted it green...
    And the Royal Dublin Society remains a fixture for otherwise rebelling (if not revolting) Dubs.

    Can remember how shocked I was by THAT first time I visited the city. Plus the fact that my host - NOT West Britons, not hardly! - made a point of watching the Queen of England's Christmas speech.

    With respect. Albeit NOT quite up to Casino Royale standard, to name just one PBer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    Dynamo said:
    Why is that? Your own post shows clear public support for the monarchy. If your contention is the rapid decline in support among the young will be sustained, then you should be arguing 'let's have a poll in 25 years'.
    Only because then we'd get some hopefully good estimates of what level of support there is now for retaining the monarchy, including among different age groups. What's the problem?
    Why hold national referendums on questions that are not politically supported or where there is not a divisive question to resolve?

    Are you seriously claiming referendums should be held, presumably on any number of subjects, simply as a means of measuring support? Why do we even have polling then?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604
    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    Dynamo said:
    Why is that? Your own post shows clear public support for the monarchy. If your contention is the rapid decline in support among the young will be sustained, then you should be arguing 'let's have a poll in 25 years'.
    Only because then we'd get some hopefully good estimates of what level of support there is now for retaining the monarchy, including among different age groups. What's the problem?
    So you mean a common or garden opinion poll rather than a referendum. They are fairly regular TBF.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dynamo said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
    Oh it is, as I pointed out this morning....

    Nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.
    His maternal grandmother was the first female Cambridge graduate, receiving an honorary degree there in 1948. It's not exactly great for the Cambridge brand, letting royal dipsticks in. Hats off to Oxford for refusing Thatcher an honorary degree in 1985.
    Chippy performance from Oxford there from a lot of chemistry and sociology dweebs. I think she won in the end.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    I doubt in Liz Truss's wildest imagination could she ever have expected to deliver that reading, just 3 days after becoming Prime Minister.

    My wife has just said she is really growing into her role.

    According to Beth Rigby, SKS delivered the greatest speech since the Gettysburg address in parliament
    She went on a bizarre fangirling spree
    The Gettysburg address was a bit pants to be honest. No new policies and a lack of detail on how anything was to be funded.

    Actually, that was the reaction at the time. The New York Times said 'anything more dull and commonplace it would be hard to find' while the Boston Herald talked about 'the president's silly remarks.'
    Yeah, but it's really short so it's easy for people to read, circulate and remember. Can you imagine when politicians would bang on for hours?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    I doubt in Liz Truss's wildest imagination could she ever have expected to deliver that reading, just 3 days after becoming Prime Minister.

    My wife has just said she is really growing into her role.

    According to Beth Rigby, SKS delivered the greatest speech since the Gettysburg address in parliament
    She went on a bizarre fangirling spree
    The Gettysburg address was a bit pants to be honest. No new policies and a lack of detail on how anything was to be funded.

    Actually, that was the reaction at the time. The New York Times said 'anything more dull and commonplace it would be hard to find' while the Boston Herald talked about 'the president's silly remarks.'
    Yeah, but it's really short so it's easy for people to read, circulate and remember. Can you imagine when politicians would bang on for hours?
    Churchill's 'this was their finest hour' sentence came I believe at the end of a 150 minute speech.
  • NEW THREAD
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    kle4 said:

    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    Dynamo said:
    Why is that? Your own post shows clear public support for the monarchy. If your contention is the rapid decline in support among the young will be sustained, then you should be arguing 'let's have a poll in 25 years'.
    Only because then we'd get some hopefully good estimates of what level of support there is now for retaining the monarchy, including among different age groups. What's the problem?
    Why hold national referendums on questions that are not politically supported or where there is not a divisive question to resolve?

    Are you seriously claiming referendums should be held, presumably on any number of subjects, simply as a means of measuring support? Why do we even have polling then?
    High time for a referendum on whether nuisance scrambler bikers should be (a) shot (b) slow sliced (c) force fed 500 million pineapple pizzas or (d) forced to watch Boris Johnson on a loop.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909
    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
    Oh it is, as I pointed out this morning....

    Nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.
    His maternal grandmother was the first female Cambridge graduate, receiving an honorary degree there in 1948. It's not exactly great for the Cambridge brand, letting royal dipsticks in. Hats off to Oxford for refusing Thatcher an honorary degree in 1985.
    Chippy performance from Oxford there from a lot of chemistry and sociology dweebs. I think she won in the end.
    I don’t know if you remember “pempe ton moron proteron” but I get the feeling that Dynamo is one of those chaps who runs round all evening with the fool’s errand. Reply to him accordingly.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    I’m calling it. Inflection point

    British food is now better than EU food. It’s happened

    Twas ever thus. In the depths of a raging winter as the Robins all tuck themselves under their wings, on the stove, steaming all day under a muslin, sits the richest beef suet pudding. That mighty monarch of hearty fayre. I'm glad to be home, safe by the hearth as Mother serves up, here in merry olde England.
    The idea that British food is better than most continental food is so counter-intuitive it is hard to accept but I think we are just about there now

    I’ve been all over Europe these last years and the one continental place that REALLY surprised me on the upside was Athens, Greece, where they are having a foodie revolution. OK Georgia is superb, but do we count Georgia as Europe? Otherwise it feels like the rest of trad Europe is coasting or in actual decline

    Britain stands out as more interesting, diverse, imaginative - whether you are eating in a restaurant or in someone’s home. 30 years of Masterchef can do that to a cuisine, I guess. Australia is also great for similar reasons

    It’s notable that the north of the EU - Denmark - now seems more gastronomically innovative than, say, France



  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited September 2022
    A friend was awarded a knighthood for his research. It seems a queue was formed of recipients to briefly be presented to her Maj. Anyway, when it was his turn she asked him what he did (quantum chaos) whereupon he gave a paragraph answer. He sez she looked briefly like she had been coshed.
    His retelling was affectionate. As a republican myself I forgive him for accepting the gong because he is brilliant and of humble provenance.

    Make no mistake, the Queen's legacy, as I see it, is that there is great value in application and doing one's very best.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,338

    DougSeal said:

    Too early?


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    56m
    There needs to be much more reflection & debate in the UK about the implications for our defence stance, future defence expenditure & required equipment of Russia no longer constituting any kind of credible conventional threat to Europe.

    That’s tempting fate.
    True, but regardless of what happens within Russia, having a strong Ukraine definitively outside the Russian sphere fundamentally changes the equation in itself.
    It would be massively foolish to conclude this about Russia, off the back of what appears to be the first successful reoffensive in 3 months; and heavily backed by NATO training and weapons. There are enormous dangers in western complacency, arguably it is this that led to the current situation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356
    edited September 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Opinion poll (YouGov) on the monarchy, from last year:

    18-24s: 41% for a republic; 31% for a monarchy.
    Two years before, the figures were 26% and 46%.
    That's from +20 to -10 for the monarchy among youngsters in two years.
    Let's have a poll now.

    image

    On the basis of a landslide 61% for the monarchy even on that poll, absolutely not.

    Go away. In any case the republican Corbyn who might have held a referendum on the monarchy was trounced in 2019 and even Starmer backs a reformed monarchy now.

    Plus having the world's best known Royal family is about the only thing the UK still leads on globally now, it would be ludicrous to get rid of it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    I'll let BigG take that one!
    With a gentle reminder that Wales is a beautiful country with a great welcome
    They should of course do the investiture. It's a nice thing to do and throws a much needed tourism spotlight on Wales.
    Most of us are reconciled to being England's oldest colony. We just don't see why they have to hold yet another victory parade after 700 years. Reeks of insecurity.
    Wales is no colony, it has its own Parliament and MPs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356

    IshmaelZ said:

    Is Prince William still the Duke of Cambridge?

    Not a distinction you'd cling on to Shirley?
    Oh it is, as I pointed out this morning....

    Nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump
    Charles also did a term at Aberystwyth where I did my Masters, so is our first Aberystwyth educated monarch too
  • Radio 2 big weekend cancelled. No Bananarama for me☹️.

    What a cruel, cruel summer.
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