On the question of what time the Queen died I believe it would have been shortly before Liz Truss was told in the commons and I believe the note did affirm the Queen had died.
I expect as part of London Bridge planning that the PM would be informed almost straight away and before the media
The PM is informed by the Queens Private Secretary on a secure line and is the first person outside the family/immediate household and doctors informed. The commons note would have said she is gravely ill and London Bridge was likely. There are no circumstances in which Nadhim Zahawi knew before the PM. She was told at 4.30, just moments before the other commonwealth leaders were informed
Are you sure? Lots of what we thought we knew is wrong. The Guardian piece was very certai she would come down by train, it now seems she is flying. "Secure lines" are ancient history, voice over 4G is always encrypted so all sorts of new protocols can be envisaged. They must have told Zahawi something pretty close to the truth, to persuade him to go into the chamber and nobble Truss.
Its very rigid protocol. Truss didnt leave the chamber, shes not going to just carry on if London Bridge has fallen. And we have been told she, and the heads of commonwealth realms were informed at 4.30 pm BST.
Most likely without wanting to sound ghoulish is there was an event such a sudden stroke or similar around lunchtime that left HM unconscious and the doctors were aware it was likely unsurvivable. I don’t think Truss was informed in the chamber that HM had died, though suspect she was told that it was likely imminent.
Yes, i think she was told basically HMQ gravely ill, London Bridge imminent
How can you tell? What piece of circumstantial evidence exists for the "gravely ill" hypothesis and rules out the "dead" hypothesis?
I certainly got the impression from watching Angela Rayner's face when she was handed the note for Keir that it was a "Oh, that's terribly sad to hear" rather than, what I'd expect, to be a more "Oh sh*t, holy hell" if it was saying "she's dead".
Maybe she truly didn't give much of a monkeys - but it really had that look about it.
Not what happened. She got a note to her, went out presumably to speak to someone on phone or in person, re entered. So the big reveal was not in the note, it was in the conversation.
And after this they all then tweeted hoping for HMQs recovery?!
You will find it a very good practice always to verify your sources
The whole country will be deeply concerned by the news from Buckingham Palace this lunchtime.
My thoughts - and the thoughts of people across our United Kingdom - are with Her Majesty The Queen and her family at this time.
Along with the rest of the country, I am deeply worried by the news from Buckingham Palace this afternoon.
My thoughts are with Her Majesty The Queen and her family at this time, and I join everyone across the United Kingdom in hoping for her recovery.
Yes. he is not as bright as Liz. But the whole thing is a fiction because the news from Buckingham Palace this afternoon which was available to the the rest of the country to be deeply worried by, is limited to
"Following further evaluation this morning, The Queen’s doctors are concerned for Her Majesty’s health and have recommended she remain under medical supervision.
The Queen remains comfortable and at Balmoral."
and we know for certain that he had received more recent and more worrying information than that.
If they had been told she was dead, Starmer would not have tweeted that and Rayner wouldnt have retweeted it. However, it fits with 'HMQ gravely ill, London Bridge likely'.
In his speech King Charles III comments on his youngest son - the Duke of Sussex - and his wife.
"I express my love for Prince Harry and Meghan as they continue to build their lives overseas."
He didn't say Prince Harry and Meghan, he said Harry and Meghan. If you're going to put it in quotes get it right BBC, unless you are doing a joke quote.
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
Eh? From where I'm standing, it was the pro-royalists who didn't like Charles, and as a result were frequently agitating for skipping a generation. To which the traditional anti-monarchist response was, 'That's not how YOUR stupid system works!
My theory was that republicans went for Charles because HMQ was untouchable.
Plus tribes amongst Royal Family - Diana supporters etc,
In his speech King Charles III comments on his youngest son - the Duke of Sussex - and his wife.
"I express my love for Prince Harry and Meghan as they continue to build their lives overseas."
He didn't say Prince Harry and Meghan, he said Harry and Meghan. If you're going to put it in quotes get it right BBC, unless you are doing a joke quote.
and younger son.
It reminded me of that will.
'I always said I would mention my dear wife, Joan, in my will. So, hello Joan.'
Good address by King Charles. Paid tribute to his mother and also looked ahead to his new role. Interesting too he has now decided to give up his charity work in terms of his personal involvement, not surprising given his new duties.
William as expected created the new Prince of Wales and a greeting for Harry and Meghan too
"give up his charity work" is code for "no more carrier bags full of dollars from the Gulf."
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
Good address by King Charles. Paid tribute to his mother and also looked ahead to his new role. Interesting too he has now decided to give up his charity work in terms of his personal involvement, not surprising given his new duties.
William as expected created the new Prince of Wales and a greeting for Harry and Meghan too
"give up his charity work" is code for "no more carrier bags full of dollars from the Gulf."
From now on, good honest British pounds with his face on them.
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
Eh? From where I'm standing, it was the pro-royalists who didn't like Charles, and as a result were frequently agitating for skipping a generation. To which the traditional anti-monarchist response was, 'That's not how YOUR stupid system works!
Bit of a mix to be honest. Monarchists who said that are pretty silly, but it's not like no Republicans have been presuming Charles will be an opporunity.
Which he will. He may never be more popular than he will be this weekend. But even if he remains well liked, several places will sever ties since if they don't at this moment when will they.
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
We're going to be ok.
Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.
According to an admittedly patch wikipedia list Charles's personal net worth was almost that of the Queen, so I guess he'll nearly double depending how things are apportioned.
Stupid decision by the BoE to delay their rates meeting.
It’s;
A) Their Job. Do it. B ) Expected and anticipated by the markets and those they have a duty to serve, the British people. Delaying it at short notice doesn’t inspire confidence. C) During a very important period where significant, perhaps unprecedented rate changes are on the table. D) Going ahead as scheduled is not going to offend anyone.
The world doesn’t stop when the monarch dies. Neither should the BoE. I recon this was decision was made long ago, with the assumption that QE would die during a period of market calm.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size. I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
According to an admittedly patch wikipedia list Charles's personal net worth was almost that of the Queen, so I guess he'll nearly double depending how things are apportioned.
I doubt it. Most of that would be the Duchy of Cornwall which now becomes William's.
Stupid decision by the BoE to delay their rates meeting.
It’s;
A) Their Job. Do it. B ) Expected and anticipated by the markets and those they have a duty to serve, the British people. Delaying it at short notice doesn’t inspire confidence. C) Going ahead as scheduled is not going to offend anyone.
The world doesn’t stop when the monarchy does. Neither should the BoE.
I suspect they are hoping for deets in the energy CoL intervention and more on how it might impact inflation to 'guide' them
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
I have said that for years when people have said to me that the monarchy would end with QEII. The constitutional apparatus accepts the change so quickly, and people are swept along with it, that it becomes much harder to advocate for change.
The machinery of state springs into gear. New king new coins new stamps. Services and ceremonies routed in over 1000 years of tradition. Coronation planning. The novelty of the old immediately giving way to the new, but paradoxically with a feeling of timeless continuity.
Good address by King Charles. Paid tribute to his mother and also looked ahead to his new role. Interesting too he has now decided to give up his charity work in terms of his personal involvement, not surprising given his new duties.
William as expected created the new Prince of Wales and a greeting for Harry and Meghan too
"give up his charity work" is code for "no more carrier bags full of dollars from the Gulf."
Luckily in a couple of years time when he tries to pay in a bag of large pound notes in the bank and they ask him for ID he will be able to raise an eyebrow and hold up the note by his face. So not all bad.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size. I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
My guess is that it is too big and touchy a subject for many to dwell on in person. You might offend someone else by being too sad or too indifferent. So avoid it
Also it’s “death”. Quite depressing
Certainly my UK WhatsApp groups are full of chat and emotion. A lot of people feeling it. But that’s very different to emoting one to one
Videos out of Ukraine yesterday and today, have cheered me up no end at a sad time.
Some years back I knew a chap who did corporate event days of tank driving - actually Abbotts, striped out.
He said the the joy of watching what people would do was only tempered by the knowledge that he would have to fire up his Centurion recovery vehicle to drag the vehicle out of the woods/ditch/etc
EDIT: Watching the video again - something wrong with the driver (injured? dead?), the rest of the crew bails out?
I’ve done one of those corporate days. The ‘tank’ was an old thing, can’t remember exactly what it was, but remember the controls were very weird. You have one foot-operated throttle and two hand-operated brakes, one for each track, which are used differentially to steer the thing. More difficult than it looks, especially when you get some speed up!
Great speech delivered extremely well. I won't be the only one impressed and I've long been a fan.
All those "skip a generation" types can fuck off.
I've never been a fan of Charles - but his speech struck all the right notes (Meghan: listen and learn) and was delivered with dignity and presence (Liz T: ditto). Less sure about his repeating his mother's silly 1947 commitment not to abdicate. There's now a real risk William won't be able to take over for another quarter-century.
Otherwise a start as surprisingly accomplished as Liz T's Monday acceptance speech was astonishingly awful.
Almost too good. You think, "ok cool, what's the big deal, we move on."
Which is the job. Stability, continuity and reassurance.
He's done good.
And note the significance of what he's pledged: lifelong service just like The Queen.
That's a huge vow, and a very serious one.
Yes that's the slight conflict I seek to highlight. Queen very very special vs Charles slots in and BAU. There is a necessary doublethink there.
Trouble is the better Charles looks, the more I end up thinking that Baldy is a bit of a pudding and getting a free pass on the back of his wife's looks.
Great speech delivered extremely well. I won't be the only one impressed and I've long been a fan.
All those "skip a generation" types can fuck off.
I've never been a fan of Charles - but his speech struck all the right notes (Meghan: listen and learn) and was delivered with dignity and presence (Liz T: ditto). Less sure about his repeating his mother's silly 1947 commitment not to abdicate. There's now a real risk William won't be able to take over for another quarter-century.
Otherwise a start as surprisingly accomplished as Liz T's Monday acceptance speech was astonishingly awful.
Videos out of Ukraine yesterday and today, have cheered me up no end at a sad time.
Some years back I knew a chap who did corporate event days of tank driving - actually Abbotts, striped out.
He said the the joy of watching what people would do was only tempered by the knowledge that he would have to fire up his Centurion recovery vehicle to drag the vehicle out of the woods/ditch/etc
EDIT: Watching the video again - something wrong with the driver (injured? dead?), the rest of the crew bails out?
I’ve done one of those corporate days. The ‘tank’ was an old thing, can’t remember exactly what it was, but remember the controls were very weird. You have one foot-operated throttle and two hand-operated brakes, one for each track, which are used differentially to steer the thing. More difficult than it looks, especially when you get some speed up!
Speed is actually the key to track steering. Doesn't work without.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
Liz Truss has gone past the Earl of Baths 2 day attempt to form a government in 1746. I suspect she has accomplished several times more than him in history inches in the same period!
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
We're going to be ok.
Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.
Long live the King.
Apart from Nicholas Witchell wittering on, the thing that’s set my teeth on edge has been journalists pontificating about how this comes at a time of great uncertainty for the country with its imminent break up, the cost of living crisis etc etc (the worst was a France24 correspondent talking about “soaring suicides”).
We’re a big, prosperous peaceful country with a functioning democracy that 95% of the planet would gratefully swap places with. Yes we face challenges - as all countries do - but we’ve just peacefully changed both head of state AND head of government in the space of a few days. As Adam Smith remarked to a panic prone student “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation”.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
I'll let BigG take that one!
With a gentle reminder that Wales is a beautiful country with a great welcome
Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.
Liz Truss has gone past the Earl of Baths 2 day attempt to form a government in 1746. I suspect she has accomplished several times more than him in history inches in the same period!
As “first week in the office”‘s go, I think Liz has had a more interesting one than most.
Good address by King Charles. Paid tribute to his mother and also looked ahead to his new role. Interesting too he has now decided to give up his charity work in terms of his personal involvement, not surprising given his new duties.
William as expected created the new Prince of Wales and a greeting for Harry and Meghan too
"give up his charity work" is code for "no more carrier bags full of dollars from the Gulf."
Did the Met ever conclude its investigation into "cash for honours" at the Prince's Foundation? Toothpaste Squeezer resigned as chief executive over that scandal.
Liz Truss has gone past the Earl of Baths 2 day attempt to form a government in 1746. I suspect she has accomplished several times more than him in history inches in the same period!
As “first week in the office”‘s go, I think Liz has had a more interesting one than most.
She equals the other 'failed administration' of Waldegrave tomorrow then its the long overhaul of Canning on Boxing Day!
Videos out of Ukraine yesterday and today, have cheered me up no end at a sad time.
Some years back I knew a chap who did corporate event days of tank driving - actually Abbotts, striped out.
He said the the joy of watching what people would do was only tempered by the knowledge that he would have to fire up his Centurion recovery vehicle to drag the vehicle out of the woods/ditch/etc
EDIT: Watching the video again - something wrong with the driver (injured? dead?), the rest of the crew bails out?
I’ve done one of those corporate days. The ‘tank’ was an old thing, can’t remember exactly what it was, but remember the controls were very weird. You have one foot-operated throttle and two hand-operated brakes, one for each track, which are used differentially to steer the thing. More difficult than it looks, especially when you get some speed up!
Speed is actually the key to track steering. Doesn't work without.
Yes, I could see that the speed was useful - but, like when learning to fly a plane, the difficult bit is getting mentally ahead of the vehicle, which takes seat time and concentration!
Good address by King Charles. Paid tribute to his mother and also looked ahead to his new role. Interesting too he has now decided to give up his charity work in terms of his personal involvement, not surprising given his new duties.
William as expected created the new Prince of Wales and a greeting for Harry and Meghan too
"give up his charity work" is code for "no more carrier bags full of dollars from the Gulf."
Did the Met ever conclude its investigation into "cash for honours" at the Prince's Foundation? Toothpaste Squeezer resigned as chief executive over that scandal.
Any criminal investigation into Charles became a nullity at about lunch time yesterday. Errare non potest Rex.
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
We're going to be ok.
Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.
Long live the King.
Apart from Nicholas Witchell wittering on, the thing that’s set my teeth on edge has been journalists pontificating about how this comes at a time of great uncertainty for the country with its imminent break up, the cost of living crisis etc etc (the worst was a France24 correspondent talking about “soaring suicides”).
We’re a big, prosperous peaceful country with a functioning democracy that 95% of the planet would gratefully swap places with. Yes we face challenges - as all countries do - but we’ve just peacefully changed both head of state AND head of government in the space of a few days. As Adam Smith remarked to a panic prone student “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation”.
Exactly.
I heard an American say precisely this. We seem more stable to them than they are for this very reason.
The whole point of Britain is that it's as stable stoic, solid, fair and reliable as fuck.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
I'll let BigG take that one!
With a gentle reminder that Wales is a beautiful country with a great welcome
"Put the car away; when life fails What's the good of going to Wales? Here am I, here are you: But what does it mean? What are we going to do?"
One might argue that being given Trade, which made Truss's reputation (fairly or not), would be far from being overlooked.
Given that Education is one of the departments about to suffer from a severe case of No Money, it's a bullet dodged. (In the same way, I'm surprised that Coffey, who is meant to be a mate, has been given the bullet labelled Health.)
Besides, if KB had been EdSec, she'd end up having to admit that half her "woke teachers" claims were tosh and the other half were insoluble.
Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.
It's possible she'll be called the queen consort in the media, which is absolutely not normal at all even if it's the official title. E.g. the woman who was later called the "Queen Mother" was called "the queen" when her husband got his a*** on the throne after the 1936 abdication, and her mother-in-law Mary was called "the queen" too when she was in a similar position. If Camilla is routinely called "the Queen Consort" that will probably have more to do with her husband not wanting her to upstage him, than anything to do with Diana, except insofar as he used to feel Diana was upstaging him too.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
I think they would be, yes, definitely. This is the passing of arguably the most famous person in the world, whom almost everyone in the world has heard of for as long as most people in the world have been alive.
Just as if the President of the United States died then I think we'd in this country be talking about it, even if no Americans were present. And not just us politics geeks either.
Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.
It's possible she'll be called the queen consort in the media, which is absolutely not normal at all even if it's the official title. E.g. the woman who was called the "Queen Mother" was called "the queen" when her husband got his a*** on the throne after the 1936 abdication, and her mother-in-law Mary was called "the queen" too when she was in a similar position. If Camilla is routinely called "the Queen Consort" that will probably have more to do with her husband not wanting her to upstage him, than anything to do with Diana, except insofar as he used to feel Diana was upstaging him too.
I think it's formulated like this at the moment to avoid confusion. I doubt it's got anything to do with Charles' ego.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size. I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
I think it's just not a thing to particularly talk about face to face because there's not a great deal to say.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
We're going to be ok.
Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.
Long live the King.
Apart from Nicholas Witchell wittering on, the thing that’s set my teeth on edge has been journalists pontificating about how this comes at a time of great uncertainty for the country with its imminent break up, the cost of living crisis etc etc (the worst was a France24 correspondent talking about “soaring suicides”).
We’re a big, prosperous peaceful country with a functioning democracy that 95% of the planet would gratefully swap places with. Yes we face challenges - as all countries do - but we’ve just peacefully changed both head of state AND head of government in the space of a few days. As Adam Smith remarked to a panic prone student “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation”.
There was on there talking about our 'collapsing economy' the other day before recent events.
Quite enjoyed that he was called Douglas Herbert.
Anyhoo - need to go shopping before all the shops close for mourning.
I doubt in Liz Truss's wildest imagination could she ever have expected to deliver that reading, just 3 days after becoming Prime Minister.
My wife has just said she is really growing into her role.
Well, you have been married to her for a very long time!
Indeed - 60 years in 2024 with congratulations from the King
Must have one of the last Elizabeth ones! And my friends mother must have one of the last centenary ones!
My wife is helping organise a birthday party for someone who turns 100 on Monday. They already have the card from the Queen, which is a little odd but they're organised months in advance.
A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
God Save The King.
That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
We're going to be ok.
Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.
Long live the King.
Apart from Nicholas Witchell wittering on, the thing that’s set my teeth on edge has been journalists pontificating about how this comes at a time of great uncertainty for the country with its imminent break up, the cost of living crisis etc etc (the worst was a France24 correspondent talking about “soaring suicides”).
We’re a big, prosperous peaceful country with a functioning democracy that 95% of the planet would gratefully swap places with. Yes we face challenges - as all countries do - but we’ve just peacefully changed both head of state AND head of government in the space of a few days. As Adam Smith remarked to a panic prone student “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation”.
Exactly.
I heard an American say precisely this. We seem more stable to them than they are for this very reason.
The whole point of Britain is that it's as stable stoic, solid, fair and reliable as fuck.
That's basically what being British is.
Perhaps much of the emotional turmoil and anxiety is the fear that without our 70 year rock and glue does it all start to fall apart?
This is a very personal comment but after having listening to King Charles address to the nation, and the deeply moving service from St Pauls, I genuinely feel we are witnessing a near seamless change in our monarchy and for the first time in a very long time a fully functioning government and opposition with two capable leaders
I have said a silent prayer of thanks and shed a few tears in the service
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
You know who else has been in Portugal this week?
Tell us you didn't spend yesterday doing a long walk...
I doubt in Liz Truss's wildest imagination could she ever have expected to deliver that reading, just 3 days after becoming Prime Minister.
My wife has just said she is really growing into her role.
Well, you have been married to her for a very long time!
Indeed - 60 years in 2024 with congratulations from the King
Must have one of the last Elizabeth ones! And my friends mother must have one of the last centenary ones!
My wife is helping organise a birthday party for someone who turns 100 on Monday. They already have the card from the Queen, which is a little odd but they're organised months in advance.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
You know who else has been in Portugal this week?
Tell us you didn't spend yesterday doing a long walk...
Liz Truss's first week has still a few days to run, and she has most of her first volume of memoirs already.
Saturday: Joint China Russia nuclear attack on London and Edinburgh Sunday: Martians invade and occupy Westminster and all defence installations Monday: Asteroid heading for Birmingham in 8 hours.
Liz Truss's first week has still a few days to run, and she has most of her first volume of memoirs already.
Saturday: Joint China Russia nuclear attack on London and Edinburgh Sunday: Martians invade and occupy Westminster and all defence installations Monday: Asteroid heading for Birmingham in 8 hours.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
You know who else has been in Portugal this week?
Tell us you didn't spend yesterday doing a long walk...
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size. I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
I think it's just not a thing to particularly talk about face to face because there's not a great deal to say.
The BBC tried to have a live conversation about it yesterday and ended up talking about the weather.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
Who invited you here anyway?
I did and if he wants to come and enjoy out wonderful country
Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.
It's possible she'll be called the queen consort in the media, which is absolutely not normal at all even if it's the official title. E.g. the woman who was called the "Queen Mother" was called "the queen" when her husband got his a*** on the throne after the 1936 abdication, and her mother-in-law Mary was called "the queen" too when she was in a similar position. If Camilla is routinely called "the Queen Consort" that will probably have more to do with her husband not wanting her to upstage him, than anything to do with Diana, except insofar as he used to feel Diana was upstaging him too.
I think it's formulated like this at the moment to avoid confusion. I doubt it's got anything to do with Charles' ego.
It is wariness over Di. there's an unexploded Diana bomb which now probably isn't going to go off, but there were times when that really wasn't foreseeable. Camilla has been Princess of Wales for 17 years but it was felt better to gloss over the fact, and this is more of the same. Dynamo is clearly too young to have heard if Di unless he did her for O levels.
Turns out there's more than one verse to God Save the King - apparently verse 3 is the first one to actually expect something from the King, not just us wishing them well in their endeavours, as they are supposed to defend our laws.
I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
Who invited you here anyway?
I went to a horrible prep school in a horrible part of Shropshire and my parents used to come and take me out on Sundays for picnic lunches in North Wales where it rained. All the time.
Turns out there's more than one verse to God Save the King - apparently verse 3 is the first one to actually expect something from the King, not just us wishing them well in their endeavours, as they are supposed to defend our laws.
I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc
it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen
It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
No they aren't. Queen Elizabeth is Queen Elizabeth II's mother.
Comments
However, it fits with 'HMQ gravely ill, London Bridge likely'.
Plus tribes amongst Royal Family - Diana supporters etc,
He'll be just fine imo.
'I always said I would mention my dear wife, Joan, in my will. So, hello Joan.'
Which he will. He may never be more popular than he will be this weekend. But even if he remains well liked, several places will sever ties since if they don't at this moment when will they.
I would qualify that by saying she is not into politics
Nor English, nor French, for the matter of that.
Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.
Long live the King.
She went on a bizarre fangirling spree
Rather nice, but I must admit I prefer the version in A.
It’s;
A) Their Job. Do it.
B ) Expected and anticipated by the markets and those they have a duty to serve, the British people. Delaying it at short notice doesn’t inspire confidence.
C) During a very important period where significant, perhaps unprecedented rate changes are on the table.
D) Going ahead as scheduled is not going to offend anyone.
The world doesn’t stop when the monarch dies. Neither should the BoE. I recon this was decision was made long ago, with the assumption that QE would die during a period of market calm.
I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
Thank you
Anyway, I have to go. Enjoy the rest of the service.
Who are the people in St Paul's? Members of the public or invited guests?
The machinery of state springs into gear. New king new coins new stamps. Services and ceremonies routed in over 1000 years of tradition. Coronation planning. The novelty of the old immediately giving way to the new, but paradoxically with a feeling of timeless continuity.
A lovely service
Well played
Also it’s “death”. Quite depressing
Certainly my UK WhatsApp groups are full of chat and emotion. A lot of people feeling it. But that’s very different to emoting one to one
The greatest speech since the Gettyburg address, in honour of one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known.
I want more!
When this vomit-inducing bubble bursts...
Otherwise a start as surprisingly accomplished as Liz T's Monday acceptance speech was astonishingly awful.
Feels about 3 years ago.
I'm not qualified to say whether it is just 'read out a speech' or conversations.
Didn't the couple live on Ynys Môn when they were first married for a couple of years, and he was a Helicopter Search an Rescue pilot?
Not a very good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLzkP_x6EFE
We’re a big, prosperous peaceful country with a functioning democracy that 95% of the planet would gratefully swap places with. Yes we face challenges - as all countries do - but we’ve just peacefully changed both head of state AND head of government in the space of a few days. As Adam Smith remarked to a panic prone student “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation”.
He can reassure us all and do the job to the best of his ability.
What more can we ask of him? What more can we ask of anyone?
I heard an American say precisely this. We seem more stable to them than they are for this very reason.
The whole point of Britain is that it's as stable stoic, solid, fair and reliable as fuck.
That's basically what being British is.
What's the good of going to Wales?
Here am I, here are you:
But what does it mean? What are we going to do?"
Besides, if KB had been EdSec, she'd end up having to admit that half her "woke teachers" claims were tosh and the other half were insoluble.
Just as if the President of the United States died then I think we'd in this country be talking about it, even if no Americans were present. And not just us politics geeks either.
Quite enjoyed that he was called Douglas Herbert.
Anyhoo - need to go shopping before all the shops close for mourning.
I have said a silent prayer of thanks and shed a few tears in the service
God save the King
Tell us you didn't spend yesterday doing a long walk...
Saturday: Joint China Russia nuclear attack on London and Edinburgh
Sunday: Martians invade and occupy Westminster and all defence installations
Monday: Asteroid heading for Birmingham in 8 hours.
And that's the week done.