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Normal politics will resume after the funeral – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    I wouldn't want to have responsibility for organising any aspect of such an event, such pressure.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,127

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    Almost too good. You think, "ok cool, what's the big deal, we move on."
    Which is the job. Stability, continuity and reassurance.

    He's done good.

    And note the significance of what he's pledged: lifelong service just like The Queen.

    That's a huge vow, and a very serious one.
    Yes that's the slight conflict I seek to highlight. Queen very very special vs Charles slots in and BAU. There is a necessary doublethink there.
    He can't replace HMQ. She was exceptional. We all know that.

    He can reassure us all and do the job to the best of his ability.

    What more can we ask of him? What more can we ask of anyone?
    Replacing HMQ, he's on an absolute hiding to nothing. The David Moyes role, if you will.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Do you think it's possible Zelensky could go? Or is that just not possible (for obvious reasons)?
    Good question. I think he would probably like to go, as a show of thanks - but he’s not left Ukraine since the start of the war, and is unlikely to want to leave while the war is still ongoing.

    As this is a betting site, there’s a great spread bet market to be had with this one - how many Heads of State attend the funeral?
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.

    It's possible she'll be called the queen consort in the media, which is absolutely not normal at all even if it's the official title. E.g. the woman who was called the "Queen Mother" was called "the queen" when her husband got his a*** on the throne after the 1936 abdication, and her mother-in-law Mary was called "the queen" too when she was in a similar position. If Camilla is routinely called "the Queen Consort" that will probably have more to do with her husband not wanting her to upstage him, than anything to do with Diana, except insofar as he used to feel Diana was upstaging him too.
    I think it's formulated like this at the moment to avoid confusion. I doubt it's got anything to do with Charles' ego.
    It is wariness over Di. there's an unexploded Diana bomb which now probably isn't going to go off, but there were times when that really wasn't foreseeable. Camilla has been Princess of Wales for 17 years but it was felt better to gloss over the fact, and this is more of the same. Dynamo is clearly too young to have heard if Di unless he did her for O levels.
    I'm probably older than you are, Ishmael.

    @RobD - There could be an element of that, but I predict they will continue to call her the QC. We shall see.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    No they aren't. Queen Elizabeth is Queen Elizabeth II's mother.
    King Charles referred to her as Queen Elizabeth in his speech.

    Queen Elizabeth's, was a life well lived.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    Who invited you here anyway?
    I went to a horrible prep school in a horrible part of Shropshire and my parents used to come and take me out on Sundays for picnic lunches in North Wales where it rained. All the time.
    This year has been wall to wall sunshine and the new sandy beach from Rhos to Old Colwyn is a wonder to behold
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,244
    Evening all :)

    Our politics may be suspended for the next 10 days or so but Sweden vote on Sunday.

    Looking at what I imagine must be some of the final polling - IPSOS have the centre-left parties on 50% and the centre right bloc on 48.2% (within that the Sweden Democrats are on 21% and the Moderates on 18.2%)

    Sifo has the centre left on 49.9% and the centre-right on 49% (Sweden Democrats 20.7%, Moderates 16.2%)

    Some fascinating polling across the Swedish population by Demoskop.

    The Sweden Democrats poll 22% among those 50-64 which is their strongest group. The Social Democrats are strongest among older people (37% of the over 65s).

    Both Centre and Venstre are much stronger among younger people (both poll 13% among 18-24 year olds).

    MY prediction is very little will change with the Social Democrats still well ahead - the Sweden Democrats may jut outpoll the Moderates but it'll be closer than the poll suggest and Venstre will so well.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dynamo said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.

    It's possible she'll be called the queen consort in the media, which is absolutely not normal at all even if it's the official title. E.g. the woman who was called the "Queen Mother" was called "the queen" when her husband got his a*** on the throne after the 1936 abdication, and her mother-in-law Mary was called "the queen" too when she was in a similar position. If Camilla is routinely called "the Queen Consort" that will probably have more to do with her husband not wanting her to upstage him, than anything to do with Diana, except insofar as he used to feel Diana was upstaging him too.
    I think it's formulated like this at the moment to avoid confusion. I doubt it's got anything to do with Charles' ego.
    It is wariness over Di. there's an unexploded Diana bomb which now probably isn't going to go off, but there were times when that really wasn't foreseeable. Camilla has been Princess of Wales for 17 years but it was felt better to gloss over the fact, and this is more of the same. Dynamo is clearly too young to have heard if Di unless he did her for O levels.
    I'm probably older than you are, Ishmael.

    @RobD - There could be an element of that, but I predict they will continue to call her the QC. We shall see.
    what? I am older than the rocks among which I sit; like the vampire, I have been dead many times, and learned the secrets of the grave.
  • I remember thinking that there was a certain elegiac quality to “God Save the Queen” at the opening of the Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth Games - and wondered for how much longer we would be singing it:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WCZVOeZCfsU
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Peace

    Perfect peace

    I can’t see a single person. Hear a single engine. Nothing but the sighing September breeze in the cork oaks, and the ker-tinkling fizz as the ice melts - but not too quickly, oh not so very quickly at all - in my first gin and tonic



  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size.
    I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
    My guess is that it is too big and touchy a subject for many to dwell on in person. You might offend someone else by being too sad or too indifferent. So avoid it

    Also it’s “death”. Quite depressing

    Certainly my UK WhatsApp groups are full of chat and emotion. A lot of people feeling it. But that’s very different to emoting one to one
    My family & friends WhatsApp groups are silent. My golf club one has exploded. I think this is because this lends itself to slightly formal and stilted sentiments, or quite monarchist or antimonarchist ones, either way the sort you're more comfortable relaying in once removed forums. Like PB for that matter.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,308

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    Who invited you here anyway?
    I did and if he wants to come and enjoy out wonderful country
    Although of Welsh parentage, at least on my father’s side, I’ve only lived in Wales for a few months. However, whenever I cross the border I feel a sense of of homecoming. Strange, perhaps, but true.
    Hireath is an odd emotion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    So, what are the odds of a world leader being ousted in a coup whilst they attend the funeral?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    edited September 2022

    biggles said:

    dodrade said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
    God Save The King.
    That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
    We're going to be ok.

    Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.

    Long live the King.
    ...
  • biggles said:

    dodrade said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
    God Save The King.
    That’s the secret weapon of a monarchy. There’s no time to think about it. The Queen is dead. God Save the King. And he just did his job perfectly.
    We're going to be ok.

    Britain is an ancient and strong nation that still matters, and has a very important and positive role to play in the future development of humanity going forwards.

    Long live the King.
    Apart from Nicholas Witchell wittering on, the thing that’s set my teeth on edge has been journalists pontificating about how this comes at a time of great uncertainty for the country with its imminent break up, the cost of living crisis etc etc (the worst was a France24 correspondent talking about “soaring suicides”).

    We’re a big, prosperous peaceful country with a functioning democracy that 95% of the planet would gratefully swap places with. Yes we face challenges - as all countries do - but we’ve just peacefully changed both head of state AND head of government in the space of a few days. As Adam Smith remarked to a panic prone student “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation”.
    Exactly.

    I heard an American say precisely this. We seem more stable to them than they are for this very reason.

    The whole point of Britain is that it's as stable stoic, solid, fair and reliable as fuck.

    That's basically what being British is.
    Perhaps much of the emotional turmoil and anxiety is the fear that without our 70 year rock and glue does it all start to fall apart?
    No.
  • Sandpit said:

    God Save The King, sung for the first time.

    I sung it.

    It was weird, but I did. As well as I could.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
  • dodrade said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    A popular theory/wish among anti-royalists has been that the Queen's popularity was largely personal and would not be inherited by Charles, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
    I think it's a bit too early to tell. If the last few years have taught us anything, popularity is rarely sustainable and things can change very rapidly.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,244
    Meanwhile In Italy which votes on the 25th, it's all over or at least that's what the polls are suggesting.

    The four centre right parties (Lega, Forza, FdL and NM) have 48.3% in the latest Tecne poll with the Social Democrat-led centre left bloc on just 27.7% suggesting a huge landslide for the former.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,308
    kle4 said:

    So, what are the odds of a world leader being ousted in a coup whilst they attend the funeral?

    Putin’s not coming!
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    No they aren't. Queen Elizabeth is Queen Elizabeth II's mother.
    I thought that Queen Elizabeth was this sister of Queen Elizabeth II's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    edited September 2022
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size.
    I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
    Our post mistress gave me 5 unsolicited minutes on the virtues of a slow cooker for energy saving. That’s where we are as a nation.
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    No they aren't. Queen Elizabeth is Queen Elizabeth II's mother.
    King Charles referred to her as Queen Elizabeth in his speech.
    Queen Elizabeth's, was a life well lived.
    Yup, because he’s wrong. She was “Queen Elizabeth”. The “the Second” was and will be used when necessary for clarity only.

  • IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    Amazing how people can have very mixed reactions. Relative of mine was commenting how they didn't mind the queen, but are not a royalist and don't see why we need a monarchy at all, that they live in great estates and palaces and do nothing so it is all pointless...yet they were still super mad about Camilla being queen, as an insult to Diana.

    It's possible she'll be called the queen consort in the media, which is absolutely not normal at all even if it's the official title. E.g. the woman who was called the "Queen Mother" was called "the queen" when her husband got his a*** on the throne after the 1936 abdication, and her mother-in-law Mary was called "the queen" too when she was in a similar position. If Camilla is routinely called "the Queen Consort" that will probably have more to do with her husband not wanting her to upstage him, than anything to do with Diana, except insofar as he used to feel Diana was upstaging him too.
    I think it's formulated like this at the moment to avoid confusion. I doubt it's got anything to do with Charles' ego.
    It is wariness over Di. there's an unexploded Diana bomb which now probably isn't going to go off, but there were times when that really wasn't foreseeable. Camilla has been Princess of Wales for 17 years but it was felt better to gloss over the fact, and this is more of the same. Dynamo is clearly too young to have heard if Di unless he did her for O levels.
    I'm probably older than you are, Ishmael.

    @RobD - There could be an element of that, but I predict they will continue to call her the QC. We shall see.
    what? I am older than the rocks among which I sit; like the vampire, I have been dead many times, and learned the secrets of the grave.
    Trnsl. I always make that odd groaning noise when I stand up nowadays.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    kle4 said:

    So, what are the odds of a world leader being ousted in a coup whilst they attend the funeral?

    Or a war starting when one of them takes the last sausage roll at the wake.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,907
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    Who invited you here anyway?
    I went to a horrible prep school in a horrible part of Shropshire and my parents used to come and take me out on Sundays for picnic lunches in North Wales where it rained. All the time.
    I always wondered how you became such a balanced & well-rounded human being :wink:
  • Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    stodge said:

    Meanwhile In Italy which votes on the 25th, it's all over or at least that's what the polls are suggesting.

    The four centre right parties (Lega, Forza, FdL and NM) have 48.3% in the latest Tecne poll with the Social Democrat-led centre left bloc on just 27.7% suggesting a huge landslide for the former.

    Is Berlusconi standing in a seat?
  • There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    No pussies under the table. Though no bears in the woods. (Jammy sod.)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/09/joe-biden-orders-us-flags-around-world-fly-half-mast-queens/
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,317

    kle4 said:

    So, what are the odds of a world leader being ousted in a coup whilst they attend the funeral?

    Putin’s not coming!
    Apparently King Charles detests him. The Ukrainians are very pleased.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    Who invited you here anyway?
    I went to a horrible prep school in a horrible part of Shropshire and my parents used to come and take me out on Sundays for picnic lunches in North Wales where it rained. All the time.
    I always wondered how you became such a balanced & well-rounded human being :wink:
    The answer, in one word:

    Vyrnwy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,054

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    No they aren't. Queen Elizabeth is Queen Elizabeth II's mother.
    I thought that Queen Elizabeth was this sister of Queen Elizabeth II's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother
    Well. Until yesterday Queen Elizabeth was as we knew her the Queen Mother.

    I'm not sure what either Queen Elizabeth as was or Queen Elizabeth II will be known as now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    Almost too good. You think, "ok cool, what's the big deal, we move on."
    Which is the job. Stability, continuity and reassurance.

    He's done good.

    And note the significance of what he's pledged: lifelong service just like The Queen.

    That's a huge vow, and a very serious one.
    Yes that's the slight conflict I seek to highlight. Queen very very special vs Charles slots in and BAU. There is a necessary doublethink there.
    Trouble is the better Charles looks, the more I end up thinking that Baldy is a bit of a pudding and getting a free pass on the back of his wife's looks.
    I sense a rather reluctant royalist, would this be fair?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    kle4 said:

    So, what are the odds of a world leader being ousted in a coup whilst they attend the funeral?

    Truss?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    Chris said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size.
    I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
    I think it's just not a thing to particularly talk about face to face because there's not a great deal to say.
    The BBC tried to have a live conversation about it yesterday and ended up talking about the weather.
    Makes you proud to be British!
  • There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

  • Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    How was your school?

    Shit. What about you?

    Awful.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    Almost too good. You think, "ok cool, what's the big deal, we move on."
    Which is the job. Stability, continuity and reassurance.

    He's done good.

    And note the significance of what he's pledged: lifelong service just like The Queen.

    That's a huge vow, and a very serious one.
    Yes that's the slight conflict I seek to highlight. Queen very very special vs Charles slots in and BAU. There is a necessary doublethink there.
    Trouble is the better Charles looks, the more I end up thinking that Baldy is a bit of a pudding and getting a free pass on the back of his wife's looks.
    I sense a rather reluctant royalist, would this
    be fair?
    Ishmael is just expressing his relief for the chaps who will have to carve all the coinage when Wills becomes king - much simpler a quick line for the skull than lots of intricate hair.

  • Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size.
    I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
    Think it NOT a surprise, that people outside the UK, who encounter a UKer in the next week or so, will make some mention of the late QEII. Stands to reason, really.

    Which is somewhat different from the news of her passing being at or near the top of their own personal priorities.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size.
    I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
    I think it's just not a thing to particularly talk about face to face because there's not a great deal to say.
    We're generally at our best on subjects where there isn't a lot to say.
  • IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    Queen is all over "UK is broken" New York Times.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    I wouldn't claim no one cares. Clealry lots of people do. But from my limited sample size, no one in the outside world particularly wants to talk about it. Maybe they are genuinely indifferent. Maybe it's too big a subject for small talk. Maybe other things are more important to them. Maybe it's just a small sample size.
    I can imagine foreigners talking about it more though.
    I think it's just not a thing to particularly talk about face to face because there's not a great deal to say.
    We're generally at our best on subjects where there isn't a lot to say.
    I just go with Lady Julian of Norwich as a cover all
    All shall be well, and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/09/joe-biden-orders-us-flags-around-world-fly-half-mast-queens/
    Most US flags flown in US are flown by private individuals and entities (such as car dealerships which specialize in super-super-sized flags.)

    President Biden's order covers only US government, so place to look is flagpoles of federal buildings & etc.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,460
    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    No pussies under the table. Though no bears in the woods. (Jammy sod.)
    I STRONGLY recommend this corner of the world. For a start it’s bloody cheap

    And it’s a world class dreamy coastline




  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,716

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    Queen is all over "UK is broken" New York Times.


    It’s ridiculous really. We’ve seen an almost instant transition to the new monarch - stability continues. Yes - our politics may be difficult- but I think we’re better placed than our American friends
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,893
    edited September 2022

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975

    Sandpit said:

    God Save The King, sung for the first time.

    I sung it.

    It was weird, but I did. As well as I could.
    Did you sing it there at home?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    Almost too good. You think, "ok cool, what's the big deal, we move on."
    Which is the job. Stability, continuity and reassurance.

    He's done good.

    And note the significance of what he's pledged: lifelong service just like The Queen.

    That's a huge vow, and a very serious one.
    Yes that's the slight conflict I seek to highlight. Queen very very special vs Charles slots in and BAU. There is a necessary doublethink there.
    Trouble is the better Charles looks, the more I end up thinking that Baldy is a bit of a pudding and getting a free pass on the back of his wife's looks.
    I sense a rather reluctant royalist, would this be fair?
    Well, I am sure any alternative system would be worse, is the extent of my enthusiasm.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    Ah, there's some video.

    OSINTtechnical
    @Osinttechnical
    Videos show mechanized Ukrainian forces crossing the T0514 bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River, reportedly heading towards Lyman.


    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1568305891279048710

    Apparently Putin is holding an emergency meeting of his State Security Committee (or whatever). The only options I can think of for them are:

    1. Declare war and a general mobilisation to throw numbers at the problem.
    2. Escalate with nuclear weapons.
    3. Withdraw to a smaller, more easily-defended perimeter.
    4. Declare a unilateral ceasefire and attempt to have Ukraine pressured to accept this.
    5. Reject all these options, and change nothing.
    6. Jump out of a window? (Use your own interpretation of the word "Jump")
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    Truss still looks about 30 from certain camera angles such as this one.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Charles doing something I approve of.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I’m surprised if no in Britain cares - as @cookie claims/says - because out here in Portugal they talk about it a lot. As soon as they hear you are British, they trot out a Queen anecdote and frown or sigh or look sad, and they WANT to discuss how it makes them feel. Generally that is: moved and a bit melancholy - “she’s been there all my life” etc

    it feels like one of those universal moments. Not a total shock like 9/11 but nonetheless a shared experience, certainly for anyone over about 45, from what I’ve seen

    It's uncontroversial news about a popular Briton, so a natural subject to bring up if you're meeting someone British, in the same way as we might commiserate with an American and offer some thoughts if President Biden died.. But do you think the Portugese discuss her among themselves? Nice if they did, but I'd be a bit surprised.
    I'm just finishing a Portuguese holiday, and the TV screens here seem to be non-stop Queen Elizabeth.
    As in the US. The words about H&M seem to have gone down well here. But I have yet to see any US flag that isn’t still at the top of the mast.
    Queen is all over "UK is broken" New York Times.

    Both NPR and CNN have done short segments from which you’d think that US slavery was all Liz’s personal fault, but otherwise it’s talking heads interspersed with live events and looped repeats thereof, as I am sure it is back at home.

    My council tells me the funeral is likely on the 19th and official mourning, cancellations etc. will continue until then.

    Meanwhile today’s special at the local Italian restaurant just up the street is battered haddock with fries and coleslaw. Apart from having more pasta dishes than most places (including such well known Italian dishes as fried ravioli), and the Italian flag outside, it’s hard to see all that much genuinely Italian about the place.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,110
    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    Is he implying the British would have been less imperialistic had they been a republic?

    Cromwell says hello.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    Also Ireland is a tiny little place and England is infinitely grander. So it’s more like living in a really nice hut and next door they live in a Gothic cathedral
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,198
    edited September 2022

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,244
    edited September 2022
    On to more serious matters - the Ukraine.

    Plenty of reports (presumably more than wishful thinking) suggesting the Ukrainians are making headway against the Russians which is all to the good.

    I'm left though with three questions/issues as and when there's talk of peace or victory.

    First, there's Donetsk and Luhansk - whether we like it or not, there were those in both regions who preferred Russian rule to Ukrainian rule. Whether that's the case now or not I don't know but even if Ukraine is able to recapture the whole of the Donbas, they will need to tread carefully in respect of the inhabitants of these areas assuming of course the approach of the Ukrainians doesn't lead to a mass migration out of the region into Russia and a probable humanitarian disaster which will be yet another crime to which Putin will need to answer.

    Second, Crimea - again, whether we like it or not, we cannot equate anti-Russian sentiment to pro-Ukrainian. The added complication is the naval base at Sebastopol which Russia leased from the Ukraine - it's hard to see how Russia abandons such an asset to an enemy. Whether it would do so to a wholly independent Crimean State is another question but it's one which will need to be addressed.

    Third - we've spoken of a defeated Russia but what of a victorious Ukraine? Do we bring them into NATO with all that follows - what of a possibly independent Crimea? In any case, the priority will be the economic reconstruction of eastern and south eastern Ukraine which is going to take huge amounts of money and time.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
  • There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    Ah, there's some video.

    OSINTtechnical
    @Osinttechnical
    Videos show mechanized Ukrainian forces crossing the T0514 bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River, reportedly heading towards Lyman.


    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1568305891279048710

    Apparently Putin is holding an emergency meeting of his State Security Committee (or whatever). The only options I can think of for them are:

    1. Declare war and a general mobilisation to throw numbers at the problem.
    2. Escalate with nuclear weapons.
    3. Withdraw to a smaller, more easily-defended perimeter.
    4. Declare a unilateral ceasefire and attempt to have Ukraine pressured to accept this.
    5. Reject all these options, and change nothing.
    #4 was an option a week ago. Too late now.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."

    “And death, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow. and death.

    And amputations.

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations.

    And the prospect of a civil war. Yes,

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations And civil war.”


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Pssssttt - guys - you can let go of your endless Boris hate now. He’s gone. Direct the energy elsewhere.
  • kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    William is made Prince of Wales.

    What about sword on bonce at a big Welsh castle?

    Until I see that, he isn't.
    I wondered about that bit. Presumably they will do the investiture stuff next year around his Coronation.
    Not sure they'll do one. Might choose to scale down that sort of thing.
    Yes. Sorry to share my own lived truth with our many and valued Welsh members, but faced with the choice between going to Wales and not going to Wales, I have always found the decision a comparatively easy one.
    I'll let BigG take that one!
    With a gentle reminder that Wales is a beautiful country with a great welcome
    They should of course do the investiture. It's a nice thing to do and throws a much needed tourism spotlight on Wales.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    Quite a few

    Morocco
    Egypt
    Ethiopia
    Kenya
    Tanzania
    Zambia
    Zimbabwe
    Namibia
    Madagascar
    South Africa

    I am sadly lacking in French North Africa, Central and west Africa
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    Looking at Charles there, I think him n Boris would be tweedledum/tweedledee. Obv Charles has been studying videos of phatboi to see how the real toffs do it.
  • boulay said:

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."

    “And death, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow. and death.

    And amputations.

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations.

    And the prospect of a civil war. Yes,

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations And civil war.”


    We should invite him to the funeral and let him and Biden snog it out.
  • I think, if I have this right, that the photo of QEII that KCIII had on his desk during his address to the nation was from Trooping the Colour in 2009. I saw a photo of her in a similar-ish blue outfit meeting the Irish President in an article on the RTE website, and wondered whether the photo from the address was from that occasion, as that would have been quite a significant reference, but trooping the colour is more neutral and makes sense.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Perfectly judged by Charles. Excellent.

    Almost too good. You think, "ok cool, what's the big deal, we move on."
    Which is the job. Stability, continuity and reassurance.

    He's done good.

    And note the significance of what he's pledged: lifelong service just like The Queen.

    That's a huge vow, and a very serious one.
    Yes that's the slight conflict I seek to highlight. Queen very very special vs Charles slots in and BAU. There is a necessary doublethink there.
    Trouble is the better Charles looks, the more I end up thinking that Baldy is a bit of a pudding and getting a free pass on the back of his wife's looks.
    I sense a rather reluctant royalist, would this be fair?
    Well, I am sure any alternative system would be worse, is the extent of my enthusiasm.
    If there were a Ref on the Monarchy I'd vote No - which is different to 10 years ago - but I'm ok to muddle on so long as they scale down and just do the basics.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,962
    biggles said:

    stodge said:

    Meanwhile In Italy which votes on the 25th, it's all over or at least that's what the polls are suggesting.

    The four centre right parties (Lega, Forza, FdL and NM) have 48.3% in the latest Tecne poll with the Social Democrat-led centre left bloc on just 27.7% suggesting a huge landslide for the former.

    Is Berlusconi standing in a seat?
    I think he remains disbarred.

    But the Forza Italia tag line is: FI for Berlusconi President, which is not totally beyond the realms.
  • There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    Ah, there's some video.

    OSINTtechnical
    @Osinttechnical
    Videos show mechanized Ukrainian forces crossing the T0514 bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River, reportedly heading towards Lyman.


    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1568305891279048710

    Apparently Putin is holding an emergency meeting of his State Security Committee (or whatever). The only options I can think of for them are:

    1. Declare war and a general mobilisation to throw numbers at the problem.
    2. Escalate with nuclear weapons.
    3. Withdraw to a smaller, more easily-defended perimeter.
    4. Declare a unilateral ceasefire and attempt to have Ukraine pressured to accept this.
    5. Reject all these options, and change nothing.
    #4 was an option a week ago. Too late now.
    6. Sack some generals and say he is taking personal charge. Didn't the last Tsar get so desperate he based himself very close to the front line at one point in WW1?

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    My CV is very Africa heavy. Nowhere East of Delhi.
  • IshmaelZ said:


    Charles doing something I approve of.

    Giving someone the stink eye for having more buttons?
  • IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    To me Truss looks at one point as if her instincts are actually to give him a big hug to help his loss rather than a stiff handshake.


  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    Quite a few

    Morocco
    Egypt
    Ethiopia
    Kenya
    Tanzania
    Zambia
    Zimbabwe
    Namibia
    Madagascar
    South Africa

    I am sadly lacking in French North Africa, Central and west Africa
    St Louis in Senegal is your sort of place Leon. 100%
    Or Saint-Louis not to be lazy
  • IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    I am convinced Her Maj clung on enough to see shot of him.

    God Bless Her.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    stodge said:

    On to more serious matters - the Ukraine.

    Plenty of reports (presumably more than wishful thinking) suggesting the Ukrainians are making headway against the Russians which is all to the good.

    I'm left though with three questions/issues as and when there's talk of peace or victory.

    First, there's Donetsk and Luhansk - whether we like it or not, there were those in both regions who preferred Russian rule to Ukrainian rule. Whether that's the case now or not I don't know but even if Ukraine is able to recapture the whole of the Donbas, they will need to tread carefully in respect of the inhabitants of these areas assuming of course the approach of the Ukrainians doesn't lead to a mass migration out of the region into Russia and a probable humanitarian disaster which will be yet another crime to which Putin will need to answer.

    Second, Crimea - again, whether we like it or not, we cannot equate anti-Russian sentiment to pro-Ukrainian. The added complication is the naval base at Sebastopol which Russia leased from the Ukraine - it's hard to see how Russia abandons such an asset to an enemy. Whether it would do so to a wholly independent Crimean State is another question but it's one which will need to be addressed.

    Third - we've spoken of a defeated Russia but what of a victorious Ukraine? Do we bring them into NATO with all that follows - what of a possibly independent Crimea? In any case, the priority will be the economic reconstruction of eastern and south eastern Ukraine which is going to take huge amounts of money and time.


    1) Sure they probably need to tread carefully, but its fair to say anyone with pro-Russian sensibilities would probably be in for a bad time if Ukraine recaptures those areas, which is clearly not certain. In any case whatever the level of sentiment they were never given an actual choice as to whether they wanted Russian forces to roll in, or to keep them.

    2) Crimea was clearly much more pro-Russian, hence why it got absorbed officially and the other areas were not. Can Ukraine really ever be likely to take it back?

    3) If the borders were restored fully presumably everyone would feel more comfortable bringing them properly into NATO, but if the boundaries are still in dispute at some area the same reluctance would seem to apply, since it would mean no just supplying them if attacked, but actively defending.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909

    boulay said:

    There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    As I posted a few weeks ago in response to a despondent @Leon , this looks like turning into one of the great military disasters of history for the Russians.

    I am even more confident now.

    Putin's message to his troops:

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears ..."

    "... and snow."

    "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow."

    “And death, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow. and death.

    And amputations.

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations.

    And the prospect of a civil war. Yes,

    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, tears and snow, death and amputations And civil war.”


    We should invite him to the funeral and let
    him and Biden snog it out.
    Was thinking earlier of the wake, Vlad and Zelensky getting absolutely aresholed, having a bust up and then sitting by one of the ornamental lanes at Buck House with their arms around each other.

    “I love you mate”

    “I love you too”

    “How did that happen?”

    “No idea, you know how it is, you see your bird dancing with someone else and you just lose it”

    “Listen Vlad, I’ve no interest in her but mate you need to back off - we can be ok but if she wants to be friends with me it doesn’t mean we can’t be friends”.

    Lots of tears, man hugs, back to the party and everyone is relieved the difficult guest has made up with the nice one.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    "Why does the New York Times hate Britain?
    As it turns out, there is method in this madness - the NYT's Britain-bashing is designed for a very specific audience

    SAM ASHWORTH-HAYES" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/09/why-does-new-york-times-hate-britain/
  • Sandpit said:

    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    It could be worse. You could live next to a crazy, drunken bear, who thinks he owns your house.
    Russians are far more into dolls than we are.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,810
    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Wait till the Coronation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Patrick Freyne in the Irish Times (back in March last year):

    "Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown."

    Is he implying the British would have been less imperialistic had they been a republic?

    Cromwell says hello.
    If kingdoms or nations were capable of being imperalistic they usually attempted it. It's not like any of them started out with the boundaries they have today.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    I am convinced Her Maj clung on enough to see shot of him.

    God Bless Her.
    It is, at least in folk belief, a real thing that people hang on to see their 100th birthday or grandson's wedding etc and then fade; and there is solid science saying that, adjusting for confounders, people on annuities outlive people who aren't.
  • There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    Ah, there's some video.

    OSINTtechnical
    @Osinttechnical
    Videos show mechanized Ukrainian forces crossing the T0514 bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River, reportedly heading towards Lyman.


    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1568305891279048710

    Apparently Putin is holding an emergency meeting of his State Security Committee (or whatever). The only options I can think of for them are:

    1. Declare war and a general mobilisation to throw numbers at the problem.
    2. Escalate with nuclear weapons.
    3. Withdraw to a smaller, more easily-defended perimeter.
    4. Declare a unilateral ceasefire and attempt to have Ukraine pressured to accept this.
    5. Reject all these options, and change nothing.
    #4 was an option a week ago. Too late now.
    They might still try it, but I'd expect it to play out as, declare a unilateral ceasefire, Ukraine insist that Russia withdraws from sovereign Ukrainian territory and keeps fighting, Russia moans and whines about the ceasefire while the useful idiots in the West switch from saying that a Ukrainian victory was impossible, so there should be peace talks, to saying that Russia is prepared to stop fighting and the Ukrainians are to blame for the war continuing, Ukraine keeps advancing.
  • There are rumors about fighting in the circled areas and around Lyman. I think it's possible since we have confirmed AFU presence in the area.
    I believe this is the preparation of a bridge head for another offensive.


    https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1568301534764580865

    Ukraine's armed forces managed a crossing of the river near Lyman a couple of days ago, and it's possible that this is about to become a third front of major advance from Ukraine. A real sense of the Russian army having been broken by recent reverses. Is there a Russian formation that can hold a line somewhere and stabilise the situation?

    Ah, there's some video.

    OSINTtechnical
    @Osinttechnical
    Videos show mechanized Ukrainian forces crossing the T0514 bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River, reportedly heading towards Lyman.


    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1568305891279048710

    Apparently Putin is holding an emergency meeting of his State Security Committee (or whatever). The only options I can think of for them are:

    1. Declare war and a general mobilisation to throw numbers at the problem.
    2. Escalate with nuclear weapons.
    3. Withdraw to a smaller, more easily-defended perimeter.
    4. Declare a unilateral ceasefire and attempt to have Ukraine pressured to accept this.
    5. Reject all these options, and change nothing.
    #4 was an option a week ago. Too late now.
    #1 is possible, but it takes time to organise, get the men conscripted, trained, equipped and to the front lines. The time to declare a general mobilisation was five months ago, after the failure of the Kyiv thrust. I bet the reasons he did not call a general mobilisation are still valid.

    #3 and #5 are my bets, but there are also probably options we haven't thought of.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    I am convinced Her Maj clung on enough to see shot of him.

    God Bless Her.
    It is, at least in folk belief, a real thing that people hang on to see their 100th birthday or grandson's wedding etc and then fade; and there is solid science saying that, adjusting for confounders, people on annuities outlive people who aren't.
    Seems incredibly coincidental to me that she lasted until she was at home in her favourite place and had taken Johnson's resignation and sworn in the new PM.

    Big sigh. My work here is done.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:


    Charles doing something I approve of.

    Giving someone the stink eye for having more buttons?
    More buttons = lower status, that's a hunt servant. The poshos are in the background in top hats and cutaway coats
  • stodge said:


    First, there's Donetsk and Luhansk - whether we like it or not, there were those in both regions who preferred Russian rule to Ukrainian rule. Whether that's the case now or not I don't know but even if Ukraine is able to recapture the whole of the Donbas, they will need to tread carefully in respect of the inhabitants of these areas assuming of course the approach of the Ukrainians doesn't lead to a mass migration out of the region into Russia and a probable humanitarian disaster which will be yet another crime to which Putin will need to answer.

    The populations of these provinces were like 6 million people or something before the war, they'll be even lower now. Most of them were in Ukraine-controlled areas before the war. Let's exaggerate massively and imagine 10% of the populations of those provinces can't stomach being in Ukraine and decide they want to move to Russia. That's 600,000. Russia is extremely large and depopulating, they can totally take 600,000 people without a humanitarian disaster.
  • IshmaelZ said:


    Charles doing something I approve of.

    Riding a horse?

    If I was a terrible human I could make a gag about..... but no, I'll be classy.
  • Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    Biden says he'll be attending the funeral.

    The funeral is likely to be the largest gathering of Heads of State in decades. I reckon at least half the world’s leaders will be there, over 100.
    Wait till the Coronation.
    Let's get everyone of them except Putin.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Alentejo is amazing at twilight

    They told me “it’s like Africa” and I thought they were lying. Hmmm


    Africa is a very large and very varied place. Which bit did they mean?
    I think classic safari country. Kenya, Tanzania. The acacias and the savannah

    And they’re not entirely wrong. Tho it lacks the animals and the drama it has something of that wonderful scent at dusk
    How many African countries have you visited.
    In my case about 15, and the acacia-and-leopard ones are def the ones to stick to.
    Zero for me. I used to think I was well-travelled but it was a bit of a fantasy.
    My CV is very Africa heavy. Nowhere East of Delhi.
    Dude!

    No China, Japan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam Malaysia, Indonesia?!!!

    These are absolutely PEAK travel experiences. You need to go. You are still young enough to have a fabulous time
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975

    IanB2 said:

    Truss’s first audience with the King:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-62854289

    I’m still trying to work out if Truss is coming across as slightly dazed because of the enormity of everything that has happened to her since Monday (I wouldn’t blame her). Or whether default Liz Truss is just slightly dazed.

    Still imagine that video if it had been the previous incumbent. Would probably be waxing lyrical about Paddington Bear and Peppa Pig.
    Such a lucky escape from having that oaf purporting to represent us all. Just days in it.
    To me Truss looks at one point as if her instincts are actually to give him a big hug to help his loss rather than a stiff handshake.
    A hug won't help Boris cope with his loss. Not sure anything will. He knows he blew it. Bleak years ahead for him. Bleak.
This discussion has been closed.