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The latest polling is giving us widely different numbers – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    Yes but there is zero chance of the GOP winning Congress and the White House on a platform of a federal abortion ban, there is a chance the Democrats could win nationwide though on a platform for a Federal law making abortion legal.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,378

    On topic

    The 3 Polls with most recent fieldwork dates have an average Lab lead of 3

    SKS fans please explain

    (7+1+3)/3 = 4

    Happy to help.
    Correction

    (7+1+4)/3 =4

    I'd just pulled my ⅔ out to correct your calculation (=3⅔)
    Please, not on a family-friendly website.
    I counter that with my one sixth.

  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,101

    On topic

    The 3 Polls with most recent fieldwork dates have an average Lab lead of 3

    SKS fans please explain

    (7+1+3)/3 = 4

    Happy to help.
    3.75 surely?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    But there is lots of Federal healthcare law. Why would it be that an abortion law at Federal level wouldn't be constitutional, but all the other Federal healthcare law was constitutional?
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    So continuity Boris, but substandard continuity Boris.
    Danger of using percentages of percentages, actually more would think Truss would be better than think Sunak would be.

    76% of 31% = 24%
    45% of 69% = 31%

    Which matches the fact that Truss beats Sunak in the question, even with Boris included.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    But there is lots of Federal healthcare law. Why would it be that an abortion law at Federal level wouldn't be constitutional, but all the other Federal healthcare law was constitutional?
    Don't ask awkward questions.
    In any event, a shadow docket decision could avoid giving anything so grubby as reasons. :smile:
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    So continuity Boris, but substandard continuity Boris.
    Danger of using percentages of percentages, actually more would think Truss would be better than think Sunak would be.

    76% of 31% = 24%
    45% of 69% = 31%

    Which matches the fact that Truss beats Sunak in the question, even with Boris included.
    Yes but Boris comfortably beats both
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,160

    On topic

    The 3 Polls with most recent fieldwork dates have an average Lab lead of 3

    SKS fans please explain

    (7+1+3)/3 = 4

    Happy to help.
    Correction

    (7+1+4)/3 =4

    I'd just pulled my ⅔ out to correct your calculation (=3⅔)
    Please, not on a family-friendly website.
    Or, as Milton Berle famously said, when asked to pull out his famously large member to compare with another’s: “Well ok, but only enough to win.”
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    Yes but there is zero chance of the GOP winning Congress and the White House on a platform of a federal abortion ban, there is a chance the Democrats could win nationwide though on a platform for a Federal law making abortion legal.
    Many of the Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe said that it was settled law. The Republicans don't have to win an election on the policy. They would face pressure from their female-body interfering grassroots to pass such a law as soon as they were able.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    But there is lots of Federal healthcare law. Why would it be that an abortion law at Federal level wouldn't be constitutional, but all the other Federal healthcare law was constitutional?
    As it is a more conservative SC than the one that ruled Obamacare was constitutional 10 years ago
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    But there is lots of Federal healthcare law. Why would it be that an abortion law at Federal level wouldn't be constitutional, but all the other Federal healthcare law was constitutional?
    Healthcare is not in the Federal government's remit so lots of healthcare laws have been struck down over the years.

    In order for a Federal law to be legal it must be justified on other grounds. Most common is interstate commerce AFAIK but others exist too.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    Yes but there is zero chance of the GOP winning Congress and the White House on a platform of a federal abortion ban, there is a chance the Democrats could win nationwide though on a platform for a Federal law making abortion legal.
    Many of the Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe said that it was settled law. The Republicans don't have to win an election on the policy. They would face pressure from their female-body interfering grassroots to pass such a law as soon as they were able.
    Then lose the next Presidential and Congressional elections by a landslide to the Democrats and be out of power for a generation. Hence they won't but leave it to the states and try and pass bans where they have state majorities in the state legislature and a GOP governor
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    I think Lake has won



    Brandon Straka
    @BrandonStraka
    · 5h
    I love the sight of happy Republicans!


    https://twitter.com/BrandonStraka/status/1554748362208841731?s=20&t=l34H_vZ6P3Stm2Y1JouOTg
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,032
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    So continuity Boris, but substandard continuity Boris.
    Danger of using percentages of percentages, actually more would think Truss would be better than think Sunak would be.

    76% of 31% = 24%
    45% of 69% = 31%

    Which matches the fact that Truss beats Sunak in the question, even with Boris included.
    Yes but Boris comfortably beats both
    Off Topic

    I am sat at my desk going through dreary waste management files listening to Adam Fleming's R4 series "Boris" on BBC Sounds. The man is quite frankly unbelievable.

    Very much worth a listen.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    edited August 2022
    I've always struggled to explain the US system, but this is actually a pretty accurate approximation of how US healthcare prescriptions work.
    https://twitter.com/DGlaucomflecken/status/1554821739015680000
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    But there is lots of Federal healthcare law. Why would it be that an abortion law at Federal level wouldn't be constitutional, but all the other Federal healthcare law was constitutional?
    As it is a more conservative SC than the one that ruled Obamacare was constitutional 10 years ago
    The SC ruled on Obamacare most recently in 2021, just last year, so that's not it.

    The core component of Obamacare was ruled legal as it was a Federal tax, so legal for Congress to act under federal taxation authority.

    Other parts of Obamacare were struck off as unconstitutional already.

    Congress would need standing to pass laws on abortion. Since Dobbs says that the Constitution says nothing about abortion, any Federal law would under precedent be unconstitutional unless underpinned by other Federal powers to make it lawful.
  • Options

    On topic

    The 3 Polls with most recent fieldwork dates have an average Lab lead of 3

    SKS fans please explain

    (7+1+3)/3 = 4

    Happy to help.
    3.75 surely?
    /3 = .75 remainder? 🤔
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    Leon said:

    I think Lake has won



    Brandon Straka
    @BrandonStraka
    · 5h
    I love the sight of happy Republicans!


    https://twitter.com/BrandonStraka/status/1554748362208841731?s=20&t=l34H_vZ6P3Stm2Y1JouOTg

    2% head after 80% of count says NY Times
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684

    Leon said:

    I think Lake has won



    Brandon Straka
    @BrandonStraka
    · 5h
    I love the sight of happy Republicans!


    https://twitter.com/BrandonStraka/status/1554748362208841731?s=20&t=l34H_vZ6P3Stm2Y1JouOTg

    2% head after 80% of count says NY Times
    Yes, their confidence in that video is not, yet, matched by the counted votes

    And yet they ARE supremely confident. Suggests to me they have insider knowledge of which votes are coming from where, and a win is all-but guaranteed. We shall see
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    And there are a lot of bases in the south.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Kansas has voted pro abortion rights:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/02/us/elections/results-kansas-abortion-amendment.html

    Which means that repealing RvW is working as it should do and perhaps not how some of the GOP expected.

    Yes, the ruling was correct to leave it to the states.

    However for pro life activists even if only 1 or 2 states like Alabama and Mississippi ban abortion that would still be better than the situation under Roe v Wade where abortion on demand was effectively legal US wide.

    They don't really care if the GOP fail to retake Congress and the White House and lose some governors races and state legislatures in the process due to the pro choice backlash
    They'll certainly care in Congress passes some pro choice legislation in that scenario.

    It really is not in the interests of the pro lifers for the GOP to be either obsessional or extreme about abortion.
    Congress cannot pass pro choice legislation making abortion legal nationwide again now without this SC striking it down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it requires the Democrats to win the Presidency, 2/3 of both Chambers of Congress and most state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment for a nationwide right to abortion.

    So it very much is in the interests of pro lifers to keep the GOP pro life actually as even if the GOP lost the Presidency and Congress more GOP controlled states would have pro life legislation than when the GOP were in charge in DC and Roe v Wade still stood

    Yes they can. Literally the whole point of Dobbs is that the constitution is neutral on Abortion, not that that the constitution forbids a law allowing abortion.

    The SC would have to overturn the ruling they just made to strike down a federal law enshrining Roe.
    Yes, so GOP controlled states can now ban abortion.

    Roe however made abortion legal nationwide so any state ban on abortion would have been unconstitutional. The SC have now said a nationwide constitutional right to abortion does not exist and it will be decided at state level, a nationwide law to make abortion legal would therefore also be unconstitutional
    A Federal law legalising abortion would not be unconstitutional by the Dobbs ruling, otherwise you wouldn't have any Federal Law.
    There is no Federal law allowed which is not in keeping with the Constitution and how the SC interprets it
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Federal Law concerning healthcare. There are many Federal Laws concerning healthcare. There would be nothing Unconstitutional about a Federal Law concerning abortion, unless and until the Supreme Court were to rule that abortion itself was unconstitutional.
    Precisely.

    Were the Court to overturn a federal abortion law, they would invite some very complicated consequences, which would likely see their jurisdiction limited in due course.
    They've already greatly disturbed the balance of powers between federal judiciary and legislature. If they continue with legislation form the bench not just unmoored unmoored from precedent, but in sharp conflict with it, they invite the overthrow of the court's authority.
    Which at root rests on consent.
    The greater danger is that they don't overturn a Federal law banning abortion nationwide.

    A decision that it is a State not Federal issue would be entirely in keeping AFAIK with precedent and Dobbs.
    Yes but there is zero chance of the GOP winning Congress and the White House on a platform of a federal abortion ban, there is a chance the Democrats could win nationwide though on a platform for a Federal law making abortion legal.
    There is a non-zero chance of the GOP winning Congress and the White House then deciding to pass a federal abortion ban, whether elected on that mandate or not.

    Afterall all but one of the six SC Justices who overturned Roe had sworn that Roe was settled law, before they chose to unsettle it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    Don't be silly.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,925
    More top quality trolling within F1

    https://twitter.com/alex_albon/status/1554829547006111749

    Alex Albon
    @alex_albon
    I understand that, with my agreement, Williams Racing have put out a press release this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is right and I have signed a contract with Williams for 2023. I will be driving for Williams next year.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    "entitled" seems an entirely accurate choice of word, tbf.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    That's clutching at straws, that isn't going to happen.

    Do you accept now then that you were wrong to say that SCOTUS would have to overturn Dobbs to overturn a Federal ban/authorisation as unconstitutional?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2022

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    I had assumed that people on here knew how Federal laws were implemented in practice before they started opining on them which was probably an error.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited August 2022
    Driver said:

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    "entitled" seems an entirely accurate choice of word, tbf.
    Only to hardline secular liberals
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525
    Driver said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    nova said:

    Tory leadership race ‘where we are’ update.





    Surely we'll end up with the likes of Richard Littlejohn and Jeremy Clarkson in deradicalisation programmes?

    You'd be hard to find a group who spend more time professing hate for this country than middle-aged (or elderly now) male newspaper columnists.
    Jeremy Clarkson is barely a year older than me, so let's all laugh at your foolish error in describing him as elderly.
    Look in the mirror old man...
    62 can't be "elderly", surely?
    Nah - it was mostly a joke about just how long they've been complaining about life.

    To be fair to Littlejohn he's left the country, but given his ongoing obsession and regularly preaching negatively about Britain, maybe he could be considered radicalised and Rishi could always strip him of his citizenship.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    "entitled" seems an entirely accurate choice of word, tbf.
    Only to hardline secular liberals
    Like mothers who don't share their surname with their children?
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,368

    On topic

    The 3 Polls with most recent fieldwork dates have an average Lab lead of 3

    SKS fans please explain

    (7+1+3)/3 = 4

    Happy to help.
    3.75 surely?
    /3 = .75 remainder? 🤔
    BJO using median, presumably :wink:


    Not a big SKS fan, but my explanation would be that Labour are currently more popular (or at least, less unpopular) than the Tories. Achieving that seems to be in SKS's job description
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
    I wouldn't go there.

    However much I think their decisions misguided (which I do), every case like this one is not an easy one for either medics or parents.
    Going ad hominem (or in this case feminam) is, apart from anything else, poor argumentation.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,317

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    Weird.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
    I'd rather not.

    Anyone losing a child is an horrific tragedy.

    The way the death of this child is being dragged out through the courts is tragic and some of the courts like the ECHR should have dismissed the appeal immediately in my view. But I'd rather not engage in mudslinging over someone who is doing the wrong thing, for whatever reasons, in truly tragic circumstances.

    The lawyers or activists piling on to either pursue their agenda or profiteer from this case should be ashamed of themselves.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,047

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
    I'd rather not.

    Anyone losing a child is an horrific tragedy.

    The way the death of this child is being dragged out through the courts is tragic and some of the courts like the ECHR should have dismissed the appeal immediately in my view. But I'd rather not engage in mudslinging over someone who is doing the wrong thing, for whatever reasons, in truly tragic circumstances.

    The lawyers or activists piling on to either pursue their agenda or profiteer from this case should be ashamed of themselves.
    It would be interesting to know what proportion of these difficult situations end up in court. For obvious reasons we only tend to hear about the cases which spend time in court.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    Nigelb said:

    @ydoethur will be dismayed that Cannock Chase is getting media attention, as a result of the Games.
    Trending on Twitter...
    https://twitter.com/JUSTIN_AVFC_/status/1554795057865170946

    Why? As I have said many times, it's a genuine hidden gem. He's quite right about how beautiful it is. And I'm not selfish about it. Why shouldn't it get more publicity so more people can come and enjoy it?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    I picture a Tory activist on Bulleye, they get Liz Truss as their prize. Jim Bowen now does that dreadful dreadful thing, sheer sadism on early evening prime time tv - "Let's see what you COULD have won."

    He smirks and unveils ... "Boris"!!

    Contestant grimaces and looks sick as a parrot.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    I picture a Tory activist on Bulleye, they get Liz Truss as their prize. Jim Bowen now does that dreadful dreadful thing, sheer sadism on early evening prime time tv - "Let's see what you COULD have won."

    He smirks and unveils ... "Boris"!!

    Contestant grimaces and looks sick as a parrot.
    Nah, the analogy doesn't work. Boris would have to be the prize they'd gambled away in the end game, and let's have a look at what you could have won would therefore have to be Sunak...
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,519

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
    I'd rather not.

    Anyone losing a child is an horrific tragedy.

    The way the death of this child is being dragged out through the courts is tragic and some of the courts like the ECHR should have dismissed the appeal immediately in my view. But I'd rather not engage in mudslinging over someone who is doing the wrong thing, for whatever reasons, in truly tragic circumstances.

    The lawyers or activists piling on to either pursue their agenda or profiteer from this case should be ashamed of themselves.
    I agree with you.

    I would only add that I suspect the publicity given to the case, the press intrusion, the turning of their son into a cause celebre, and the concomitant loss of dignity will actually make it harder, not easier, for the parents to cope with their grief once their son dies, as he surely will. The parents are, I think, acting against their own best interests.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    On topic

    The 3 Polls with most recent fieldwork dates have an average Lab lead of 3

    SKS fans please explain

    (7+1+3)/3 = 4

    Happy to help.
    Correction

    (7+1+4)/3 =4

    I'd just pulled my ⅔ out to correct your calculation (=3⅔)
    Please, not on a family-friendly website.
    I counter that with my one sixth.

    If you keep arguing about this, I'm going to have to register my 32 foot horn to drown you out.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    @ydoethur will be dismayed that Cannock Chase is getting media attention, as a result of the Games.
    Trending on Twitter...
    https://twitter.com/JUSTIN_AVFC_/status/1554795057865170946

    Why? As I have said many times, it's a genuine hidden gem. He's quite right about how beautiful it is. And I'm not selfish about it. Why shouldn't it get more publicity so more people can come and enjoy it?
    That's very public spirited of you.
    It's a fairly small hidden gem, so I had (erroneously) imagined you'd be concerned about it being spoiled by too many visitors. Apologies.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,999
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    I picture a Tory activist on Bulleye, they get Liz Truss as their prize. Jim Bowen now does that dreadful dreadful thing, sheer sadism on early evening prime time tv - "Let's see what you COULD have won."

    He smirks and unveils ... "Boris"!!

    Contestant grimaces and looks sick as a parrot.
    Nah, the analogy doesn't work. Boris would have to be the prize they'd gambled away in the end game, and let's have a look at what you could have won would therefore have to be Sunak...
    "The majority you won earlier... that's safe."
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    edited August 2022
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    @ydoethur will be dismayed that Cannock Chase is getting media attention, as a result of the Games.
    Trending on Twitter...
    https://twitter.com/JUSTIN_AVFC_/status/1554795057865170946

    Why? As I have said many times, it's a genuine hidden gem. He's quite right about how beautiful it is. And I'm not selfish about it. Why shouldn't it get more publicity so more people can come and enjoy it?
    That's very public spirited of you.
    It's a fairly small hidden gem, so I had (erroneously) imagined you'd be concerned about it being spoiled by too many visitors. Apologies.
    Plenty of room for us all out there!

    (And it wouldn't be me got stuck in any traffic queues, remember!) :smiley:

    More amusingly, I had thought of biking out to watch but eventually I ended up biking too and from the garage to get my car sorted. And in between, as it was a nice hot sunny day, I chopped up a load of wood to burn in the stove.

    Edit - also amusingly, at least three of those photos are technically Shoal Hill Common not Cannock Chase. But that's equally lovely and it's literally across a road so let's not be picky.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Lib Dem barcharters weeping in despair...

    Well she IS in touch with ordinary people. VERY ordinary people.
    This question reminds me of the joke about the hikers who come across a bear, and one changes into his running shoes.
    Don't leave me hanging ... the punchline?
  • Options
    StarryStarry Posts: 105

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    When it comes to mass deaths and unparalleled emigration versus swimming championships having only biological women on the podium...I dunno. It's close but maybe climate change just edges it for 'most important'. Tough one mind you. Glad to see Andrew hasn't lost his mind there.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,868

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
    I'd rather not.

    Anyone losing a child is an horrific tragedy.

    The way the death of this child is being dragged out through the courts is tragic and some of the courts like the ECHR should have dismissed the appeal immediately in my view. But I'd rather not engage in mudslinging over someone who is doing the wrong thing, for whatever reasons, in truly tragic circumstances.

    The lawyers or activists piling on to either pursue their agenda or profiteer from this case should be ashamed of themselves.
    I agree with you.

    I would only add that I suspect the publicity given to the case, the press intrusion, the turning of their son into a cause celebre, and the concomitant loss of dignity will actually make it harder, not easier, for the parents to cope with their grief once their son dies, as he surely will. The parents are, I think, acting against their own best interests.
    The story came on the one o'clock news yesterday as I drove home from swimming. The little 'un was confused, and wanted to know why a court would say a child had to die. It led to an interesting conversation on the nature of death, loss and suffering.

    It sort-of came down to sometimes there is no 'good' answer; only better bad ones.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    I agree with Nick.
    Weird.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Lib Dem barcharters weeping in despair...

    Well she IS in touch with ordinary people. VERY ordinary people.
    This question reminds me of the joke about the hikers who come across a bear, and one changes into his running shoes.
    Don't leave me hanging ... the punchline?
    Two friends are in the woods, having a picnic. They spot a bear running at them. One friend gets up and starts running away from the bear. The other friend opens his backpack, takes out his running shoes, changes out of his hiking boots, and starts stretching.

    “Are you crazy?” the first friend shouts, looking over his shoulder as the bear closes in on his friend. “You can’t outrun a bear!”

    “I don’t have to outrun the bear,” said the second friend. “I only have to outrun you.”


    The choice between who out of Truss and Sunak (and Sir Keir, tbf) is more in touch with ordinary people is very much a "that's not saying very much".
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,299
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    After another awful night for the country club republicans vs the Trumpists, is this now a voter class the Dems might be have half an eye on?

    Could the Dems get some cashmere sweater wearing votes if they are aggressive enough with China and Russia??

    Is this the agenda behind Pelosi's visit??

    Pelosi is a long term and consistent anti-PRC hawk. From well before it was at all fashionable.
    She unfurled a banner in Tiananmen Square more than 30 years ago, causing quite an incident.
    Sorry to lower the tone, but she was quite a looker..


    Her eyes look manic.
    There's something weird about that photo that makes it look like the lower half of her face does not belong to the upper half. Cover the top, and the mouth and chin look normal, cover the mouth and chin and the nose and eyes look normal.

    I guess it is unfortunate make-up and lighting.

    (ETA: I was intending to comment on the photography; apologies as I shouldn't be commenting on her appearance, which I realise is the net effect of my post.)
    One of the eyes is open far wider than the other. It's probably due to the hair over one. It makes her look insane. She's very pretty though.
    Have you see young Nadine Dorries? https://twitter.com/nadinedorries/status/1260264767027122176

    Nadine Dorries is an attractive woman still imo.
    mwadams said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    After another awful night for the country club republicans vs the Trumpists, is this now a voter class the Dems might be have half an eye on?

    Could the Dems get some cashmere sweater wearing votes if they are aggressive enough with China and Russia??

    Is this the agenda behind Pelosi's visit??

    Pelosi is a long term and consistent anti-PRC hawk. From well before it was at all fashionable.
    She unfurled a banner in Tiananmen Square more than 30 years ago, causing quite an incident.
    Sorry to lower the tone, but she was quite a looker..


    Her eyes look manic.
    There's something weird about that photo that makes it look like the lower half of her face does not belong to the upper half. Cover the top, and the mouth and chin look normal, cover the mouth and chin and the nose and eyes look normal.

    I guess it is unfortunate make-up and lighting.

    (ETA: I was intending to comment on the photography; apologies as I shouldn't be commenting on her appearance, which I realise is the net effect of my post.)
    Why shouldn't you be commenting on her appearance?
    It is, in general, not very kind (and not very productive).

    There are many and varied reasons why the culture of commenting on physical appearance is especially detrimental in politics, sport, etc. Even more so when directed at women.
    Yet you haven't chosen to offer any.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    I agree with Nick.
    Weird.
    Those of a centre left and left wing disposition see no threat in Wokeness at all, because it hasn't - so far - challenged any of their beliefs. It looks like political correctness, perhaps a bit silly at times, but generally a really good thing, hurray for equality and diversity, be nice to minorities, yay for gays, etc

    So any harsh critique of it looks "weird". But in the end the slow learners will catch up

    There is one area where they are already catching up. The Woke pursuit of trans rights, where the intersectional rights of trans people are deemed more important, because more oppressed, than mere women

    Note that many leftwing feminists, from J K Rowling to multiple Guardian journalists, have wised up sharpish, and are fighting back, tho often losing careers in the process. Consider them canaries in the coalmine
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Lib Dem barcharters weeping in despair...

    Well she IS in touch with ordinary people. VERY ordinary people.
    This question reminds me of the joke about the hikers who come across a bear, and one changes into his running shoes.
    Don't leave me hanging ... the punchline?
    'All I have to do is outrun you!'

    There is however a Russian version of this joke that's actually rather better. What I like about it is it sends up positive national stereotypes.

    Five men, a Russian, a Ukrainian, a Pole, an Englishman and a German were in a wood in Ukraine when a bear starts stalking them. The German shouts, 'run men! I will hold him off to pay the debt Germany owes you all!' So he turns and fights the bear with his bare [sorry] hands, as the others flee.

    But a few minutes later, the bear is pursuing. The Ukrainian turns. 'This is my country. I must fight to defend you all!' So he takes on the bear as the others run.

    But a few minutes later, the bear is still pursuing. So the Englishman turns. 'For the regiment!' he shouts as he takes his turn to do battle.

    Three minutes later, the bear is still coming, and just the two are left. Suddenly the Russian turns, pulls a revolver out of his right pocket, and shoots the bear dead through the eye at 70 yards. Magnificent shot.

    The Pole is stunned. 'But - why didn't you do that earlier?' he shouts.

    The Russian shrugs, reaches into his other pocket, and pulls out a bottle of vodka. He knocks the lid off and offers the Pole a drink. 'Five men on one bottle? Too many!'
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    I had assumed that people on here knew how Federal laws were implemented in practice before they started opining on them which was probably an error.
    The Congressional report here sets out current conventional wisdom on the issue;
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10787

    An obvious first step would be to repeal the Hyde Amendment.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,160
    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,946
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    How I yearn for the good old days when righties believed in taking responsibility for their own actions rather than whine about being 'provoked'.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar.
    It's going to have to work bloody hard if it destroys it before chronic corruption and mismanagement do.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    I agree with Nick.
    Weird.
    Those of a centre left and left wing disposition see no threat in Wokeness at all, because it hasn't - so far - challenged any of their beliefs. It looks like political correctness, perhaps a bit silly at times, but generally a really good thing, hurray for equality and diversity, be nice to minorities, yay for gays, etc

    So any harsh critique of it looks "weird". But in the end the slow learners will catch up

    There is one area where they are already catching up. The Woke pursuit of trans rights, where the intersectional rights of trans people are deemed more important, because more oppressed, than mere women

    Note that many leftwing feminists, from J K Rowling to multiple Guardian journalists, have wised up sharpish, and are fighting back, tho often losing careers in the process. Consider them canaries in the coalmine
    No, you still sound as weird as the fringe on the other side of the argument.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    49% of Liz Truss voters amongst Tory members think Boris would have been a better PM than she will, only 45% think Truss would be better.

    By contrast 76% of Rishi Sunak voters think Sunak would be a better PM than Boris, only 18% think Boris would have been better

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=CHhFCGkZ19aAWyrlBlxESA

    I picture a Tory activist on Bulleye, they get Liz Truss as their prize. Jim Bowen now does that dreadful dreadful thing, sheer sadism on early evening prime time tv - "Let's see what you COULD have won."

    He smirks and unveils ... "Boris"!!

    Contestant grimaces and looks sick as a parrot.
    Nah, the analogy doesn't work. Boris would have to be the prize they'd gambled away in the end game, and let's have a look at what you could have won would therefore have to be Sunak...
    Ah I defer to the greater Bullseye knowledge. I thought it was 100% accurate. Perhaps I'm getting Bullseye mixed up with Deal or No Deal, or 321. Edmonds and Rogers respectively there, of course, rather than Bowen, so no excuses for doing that if I did.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    How I yearn for the good old days when righties believed in taking responsibility for their own actions rather than whine about being 'provoked'.
    If you go around preaching that "all whites are racist", don't be surprised if whites start voting as a racial bloc, in favour of themselves, because: Why not?
  • Options
    StarryStarry Posts: 105
    Pulpstar said:

    2nd half of Biden's term looks like being GOP House/Dem senate.

    I assume that means nothing legally happens ?

    Apart from changes to the make-up of the Supreme Court to provide balance.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,200

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the increased risks involved, this indicates some urgency in targeting Russian positions. Possibly related to the counteroffensive.

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1554775390123687937
    Rare footage of no less than four M142 HIMARS in action, firing 24 M31A1 GMLRS unitary rockets at Russian targets.

    This footage is notable not just for the quantity but also the daytime usage of HIMARS. Note the Ukrainian soldier with possible MANPADS to the left.

    It's strange. Because the HIMARS can reload anywhere, and the rockets are GPS guided, there's no need to have them in the same place even if they're firing at the same target.

    The only reason I can think of is if they were firing at a target right at the limit of their range, and they only had one moderately safe place near the front line to fire from.

    Maybe this was striking the railway as far towards Crimea as possible?
    It does suggest that they are not exactly running scared of the Russian airforce and are willing to create such a tempting target for the sake of a video. The lack of use of airpower by the Russians in this war for anything other than random bombing of civilian targets is one of its strangest aspects. Suggests to me that the difference between their actual and paper strength is very considerable.
    The enemy has completely failed to achieve air superiority. The Ukranians have handheld surface-to-air missiles everywhere, and have shot down a couple of hundred enemy planes so far. Very much the paper bear.
    This is one of the perplexing things for me. The Russians should have been able to easily get air superiority by taking out the Uke's high-altitude SAM systems, and then operated above the range of the hand-held SAM systems.

    I've seen it claimed that the reason is that the Russian air force is terrible at precision targeting from altitude, meaning the planes need to go low to hit a target - right into SAM range. Possibly because they haven't developed a Litening-style targeting pod - or at least fielded one in quantity.

    If so, it is a classic example of going for the sexy things ("Look! We have a 5th Generation Fighter!") whilst missing the unsexy but really important things.
    The Russians never developed SEAD as a specialist task. They hang some anti-radiation missiles off their fighters - which is a long way from specialist sensors and weapons US style.

    In addition, their PGMs are rare. Which means that their aircraft have to attack at medium level to get hits. Which is right in the SAM sweet spot.

    So they are very poor at suppressing SAMs and their aircraft attack right into the heart of medium SAM territory.

    Their older naval cruise missiles are huge, but are designed to fly much of the mission at non-wave top height. So they a easy(ish)!targets for an alerted defense. The later ones adopted the western approach of sea skimming. But they are pretty rare. They have big stocks of the old stuff.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,200
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    I had assumed that people on here knew how Federal laws were implemented in practice before they started opining on them which was probably an error.
    IIRC there are various laws that have been passed blocking federal money going to abortion provision. Or indeed family planning….
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    The Archie case is truly heartbreaking .

    I know many think the parents should give up but I think for them to be able to move on they feel that they have to have exhausted every possibility to save him .

    The application to the ECHR is the last chance for them now . It’s likely that even if this succeeds that there will be no miracle but people should not judge the patents for what may seem refusing to accept reality .

    A loving parents desperation to save their child against all the odds is something I hope all will empathize with .

    It's the groups around the parents I blame, and as I've said before I don't think the ECHR should have juridstiction in and around our courts & doctors on this matter.
    A BBC report I read suggested that they're being funded by these people: https://christianconcern.com/about/services/christian-legal-centre/

    I doubt they are motivated by what's best for Archie or his parents, tbh.
    The parents are committed Christians and believe life is sacred and are entitled to take whatever legal action they wish to try and keep their son alive, even if they lose the judgements
    Dig further. There is more about the mother on the web that you might want to check out before you beatify her.
    I wouldn't go there.

    However much I think their decisions misguided (which I do), every case like this one is not an easy one for either medics or parents.
    Going ad hominem (or in this case feminam) is, apart from anything else, poor argumentation.
    I've been in a similar position to them. The potential for empathy is there, but their behaviour makes me very cross indeed.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,474
    Here are two curious patterns in the Kansas primary election results. First, almost 200K more people voted on the abortion amendment than voted in the two senatorial primaries, combined. Second, incumbent Republican Senator Jerry Moran, who is pro-life, ran far ahead of the combined votes of the Democratic candidates. (I gave only approximate numbers because the counting is not quite finished.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Moran

    The results in the gubernatorial primaries were broadly similar, with far more votes in the Repulican primary than the Democratic primary, but far fewer voters total than on the abortion question.

    So, support for what I like to call the "Hugh Hefner" position on abortion did not always produce votes for Democratic candidates. And, no, I don't yet have an explanation for that.

    (I used this site for votes, but you should be able to find a better one, with a little searching: https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/election/article264069346.html )
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    I had assumed that people on here knew how Federal laws were implemented in practice before they started opining on them which was probably an error.
    IIRC there are various laws that have been passed blocking federal money going to abortion provision. Or indeed family planning….
    It's fair to say that constitutionally it's easier for Congress to construct barriers for abortion at the state level than it is to prevent states preventing or obstructing abortion access.
    But it's not a binary issue. And politically, it's the other way around.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    How I yearn for the good old days when righties believed in taking responsibility for their own actions rather than whine about being 'provoked'.
    If you go around preaching that "all whites are racist", don't be surprised if whites start voting as a racial bloc, in favour of themselves, because: Why not?
    The aversion of white people to having a little think about racism is such that they might regress and go all KKK?

    I have a bit more faith in them - sorry in 'us' - than that.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Over the last year or so I’ve read and listened to, probably, hundreds of hours of podcasts, interviews and audiobooks. All of the Brendan O’Neill & Spiked stuff. The TRIGGERnometry guys (and his new book), Douglas Murray’s output etc.

    I’ve tried to challenge myself and my assumptions and see if the anti-woke brigade have a point.

    And, aside from a few niche cases and examples, they really don’t.

    My initial view, was this was just section 28 type phobias re-emerging under a new guise. The kind of crap you get at the fag end of a Tory government. After much research and soul searching, that’s pretty much still my view.

    Worth listening, imo, to Adam Fleming’s Antisocial on r4/bbc sounds;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0018h15

    It’s a few hours of listening, but generally quite a good, balanced overview of the woke/antiwoke battlefield.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    I had assumed that people on here knew how Federal laws were implemented in practice before they started opining on them which was probably an error.
    The Congressional report here sets out current conventional wisdom on the issue;
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10787

    An obvious first step would be to repeal the Hyde Amendment.
    Yup, that has to go as a first step to anything enacted by federal government rather than by leaning on states.

    On the subject of leaning on states despite the existence of the tenth and twenty-first amendments Reagan was able to pass a national minimum alcohol purchase age that was upheld 7-2 on being taken to the Supreme Court. It is the absolute standard way of the Federal government 'doing things'
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    ping said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Over the last year or so I’ve read and listened to, probably, hundreds of hours of podcasts, interviews and audiobooks. All of the Brendan O’Neill & Spiked stuff. The TRIGGERnometry guys (and his new book), Douglas Murray’s output etc.

    I’ve tried to challenge myself and my assumptions and see if the anti-woke brigade have a point.

    And, aside from a few niche cases and examples, they really don’t.

    My initial view, was this was just section 28 type phobias re-emerging under a new guise. The kind of crap you get at the fag end of a Tory government. After much research and soul searching, that’s pretty much still my view.

    Worth listening, imo, to Adam Fleming’s Antisocial on r4/bbc sounds;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0018h15

    It’s a few hours of listening, but generally quite a good, balanced overview of the woke/antiwoke battlefield.
    Good for you for trying, but if you don't get it even now, you are simply too stupid, or too set in your ways and narrow-minded, which is a kind of stupid

    I put you in the same category as @kinabalu
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,999
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
    I genuinely think London has an opportunity to become the alternative to the Bay Area for Big Tech.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
    And if you do need to do financial stuff in the US, NYC isn't that much further away by air from London than it is from SF.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,044
    Can anyone explain what the Tory grassroots love so much about Boris? Thatcher I could understand. But Johnson only seems to care about Johnson. He didn't even really believe in Brexit and has shown no concern with protecting its legacy, just the continuance of his own time in office. He has lied repeatedly, including in parliament and appears hopelessly disorganised and incapable of getting stuff done. He received credit for 'getting Brexit done' although the situation patently isn't settled. The covid vaccines was hailed as a triumph but I doubt the Tory grassroots approved of all the restrictions, tax and spending. As for Ukraine he continued longstanding UK policy and is that really why they love him?

    Just a thought but I understand that the average member is a southern, higher income man. Are these yuppies? The sort who may be on to their third marriage, been taken to the cleaners a couple of times and see something of Boris in themselves, empathising with a kindred spirit locked out of his own home and alienated from the family he provided for? Maybe it's just a silly indulgence.

    Happy to be proven wrong.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Federal Government controls vast swathes of laws over states that it "can't" by tying them to Federal Funding.

    At the very least a federal law could open abortion clinics on federal land. Imagine, every army base comes with a Roe compliant clinic.

    Is it wise to opine on what the Federal Government can and can't do, when half an hour ago you didn't know what the Tenth Amendment was?
    I had assumed that people on here knew how Federal laws were implemented in practice before they started opining on them which was probably an error.
    IIRC there are various laws that have been passed blocking federal money going to abortion provision. Or indeed family planning….
    Yes, the Hyde amendment is the cornerstone of that. It makes being a on a US military base and being pregnant a very dangerous proposition if there are any complications.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,160
    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
    And if you do need to do financial stuff in the US, NYC isn't that much further away by air from London than it is from SF.
    All we need now is Juxtaposed immigration controls at Heathrow/JFK. Pre-clearance at Heathrow a la Shannon has been mooted for a while, but never seems to happen.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049
    Inflation could reach 15% early next year. I've never had to deal with inflation so high, or anything near it, in my adult life. This is not going to be good.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/03/uk-inflation-could-reach-15-by-start-of-2023-experts-say
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049

    Here are two curious patterns in the Kansas primary election results. First, almost 200K more people voted on the abortion amendment than voted in the two senatorial primaries, combined. Second, incumbent Republican Senator Jerry Moran, who is pro-life, ran far ahead of the combined votes of the Democratic candidates. (I gave only approximate numbers because the counting is not quite finished.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Moran

    The results in the gubernatorial primaries were broadly similar, with far more votes in the Repulican primary than the Democratic primary, but far fewer voters total than on the abortion question.

    So, support for what I like to call the "Hugh Hefner" position on abortion did not always produce votes for Democratic candidates. And, no, I don't yet have an explanation for that.

    (I used this site for votes, but you should be able to find a better one, with a little searching: https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/election/article264069346.html )

    I read somewhere that Independent registered voters can't vote in the party primaries in Kansas, and that was given as the explanation for the discrepancy.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
    I saw recently that parts of East London have taken over SF for density of tech startups. Kings cross looks like the choice for established tech so will be another huge draw for startups looking for global locations. I know one SAAS company which is currently HQ'd in SF that's considering moving operationally to London from there and leaving behind a small outpost of sales people in NYC. That's the other one that's coming for SF, operational excellence in development by being based in London and sales/GTM based on the East Coast of the US either in NYC or Miami. It's such a better set of timezones. SF used to have the advantage of crossover with APAC countries but with the ease of remote work and setting up remote workers on a single payroll tech companies are choosing to hire locally in Singapore, Melbourne and Wellington.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
    I genuinely think London has an opportunity to become the alternative to the Bay Area for Big Tech.
    Yes, and more: as NYC sinks into crime, and is menaced by deeper political division, a lot of business in NYC will come here. Remote working suddenly benefits the UK

    Really. Why would you work in NYC or LA or SF if you can work in London?

    NYC is a great city and LA is jolly interesting and SF has a certain beauty, but they have grave downsides, and they are all trillions of miles from anywhere else

    Fly two hours from NYC and you are in, er, Toronto

    Compare that with London, when in 2 hours or less you can be in Paris, Venice, Berlin, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Rome, Florence, Edinburgh, Nice... and the Alps, the Balearics, Sicily, western Ireland, Burgundy, the Algarve, the Black Forest, the Dordogne, the Italian lakes, the Dolomites, Tyrol,...

    There is no comparison. If your job is no longer quite so tied to the Silicon Valley office, you will move to London
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,474
    Malmesbury said: "IIRC there are various laws that have been passed blocking federal money going to abortion provision. Or indeed family planning…"

    You recall correctly. The best known is probably the Hyde Amendment: "In U.S. politics, the Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortion, except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape.[1][2] Before the Hyde Amendment took effect in 1980, an estimated 300,000 abortions were performed annually using federal funds.[3]

    The original Hyde Amendment was passed on September 30, 1976, by the House of Representatives, with a 312–93 vote to override the veto of a funding bill for the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW).[4][5][6][7] It was named for its chief sponsor, Republican Congressman Henry Hyde of Illinois.[3] The measure represented one of the first major legislative gains by the United States anti-abortion movement following the 1973 Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment

    There is a similar amendment barring federal funds paying for abortions in foreign nations, which resulted in the Mexico City Policy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_policy
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,474
    LostPassword. Thanks. That makes sense. And the numbers look about right.
  • Options

    This thread has just scored an own goal

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Over the last year or so I’ve read and listened to, probably, hundreds of hours of podcasts, interviews and audiobooks. All of the Brendan O’Neill & Spiked stuff. The TRIGGERnometry guys (and his new book), Douglas Murray’s output etc.

    I’ve tried to challenge myself and my assumptions and see if the anti-woke brigade have a point.

    And, aside from a few niche cases and examples, they really don’t.

    My initial view, was this was just section 28 type phobias re-emerging under a new guise. The kind of crap you get at the fag end of a Tory government. After much research and soul searching, that’s pretty much still my view.

    Worth listening, imo, to Adam Fleming’s Antisocial on r4/bbc sounds;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0018h15

    It’s a few hours of listening, but generally quite a good, balanced overview of the woke/antiwoke battlefield.
    Good for you for trying, but if you don't get it even now, you are simply too stupid, or too set in your ways and narrow-minded, which is a kind of stupid

    I put you in the same category as @kinabalu
    'Categories Leon thinks I'm in' is not the primary concern for about 99.9999999% of humanity.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    Ancient history was never my strong point, but haven't the Tories been in power for over TWELVE years?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049

    Can anyone explain what the Tory grassroots love so much about Boris? Thatcher I could understand. But Johnson only seems to care about Johnson. He didn't even really believe in Brexit and has shown no concern with protecting its legacy, just the continuance of his own time in office. He has lied repeatedly, including in parliament and appears hopelessly disorganised and incapable of getting stuff done. He received credit for 'getting Brexit done' although the situation patently isn't settled. The covid vaccines was hailed as a triumph but I doubt the Tory grassroots approved of all the restrictions, tax and spending. As for Ukraine he continued longstanding UK policy and is that really why they love him?

    Just a thought but I understand that the average member is a southern, higher income man. Are these yuppies? The sort who may be on to their third marriage, been taken to the cleaners a couple of times and see something of Boris in themselves, empathising with a kindred spirit locked out of his own home and alienated from the family he provided for? Maybe it's just a silly indulgence.

    Happy to be proven wrong.

    Boris is a winner. Boris is also very tribalistic. A lot of his method is about building a rapport with his audience, identifying an other, and inviting his audience to feel good about themselves by laughing with him at the other. He's also very optimistic, and people want to believe that there's a happy ending.

    I can see why people who think of themselves as on the same side as him would like that.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Over the last year or so I’ve read and listened to, probably, hundreds of hours of podcasts, interviews and audiobooks. All of the Brendan O’Neill & Spiked stuff. The TRIGGERnometry guys (and his new book), Douglas Murray’s output etc.

    I’ve tried to challenge myself and my assumptions and see if the anti-woke brigade have a point.

    And, aside from a few niche cases and examples, they really don’t.

    My initial view, was this was just section 28 type phobias re-emerging under a new guise. The kind of crap you get at the fag end of a Tory government. After much research and soul searching, that’s pretty much still my view.

    Worth listening, imo, to Adam Fleming’s Antisocial on r4/bbc sounds;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0018h15

    It’s a few hours of listening, but generally quite a good, balanced overview of the woke/antiwoke battlefield.
    Good for you for trying, but if you don't get it even now, you are simply too stupid, or too set in your ways and narrow-minded, which is a kind of stupid

    I put you in the same category as @kinabalu
    That category being people with a modicum of logic and perspective - as opposed to those fruitiepies who forsake all of that good stuff in favour of regurgitating softhead speccyland obsessions.

    C'mon, stage a breakout! Try thinking for yourself for a change rather than being a cliche. I sense you can do it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Paging @Leon :


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    57m
    The matters I currently personally regard as the biggest issues in UK politics:
    1) Short-term: Defeating inflation
    2) Medium-term: Defeating wokeness
    3) Long-term: Navigating climate change

    Of these, the biggest & most important of the battles - the one where the battle itself will determine things the most - is the defeat of wokeness. The urgency of that fight is the single biggest reason I would consider a Labour govt at present intolerable.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554821354125373443

    What a melt.

    Wokeness is irrelevant. The other two are essential to tackle. Wokeness few people care about.
    Wokeness is beginning to destroy education, like dry rot in the cellar. It started in America, where it is still the most advanced, and now it is spreading. It will eat away at everything unless it is rooted out

    Even if you don't care about Wokeness per se, you should care about its political effects. It provokes right wing backlash, which leads to hard right governments. I presume you don't want that
    Ancient history was never my strong point, but haven't the Tories been in power for over TWELVE years?
    Seven. Coalition before that, which was as good as Tory anyway.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Nick Clegg joins clique of Meta bosses switching to London

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/28f2f03c-1306-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=cb91256f53919399519b38d953342047

    Clegg is back, part time…

    Clegg is back, and London is back!


    From that thread of articles:

    "Hoberman said: “They also move because they see the US so fractionalised. As San Francisco loses its density [of tech headquarters], there’s a chance for London to be the global leader.”"

    This is absolutely true. Why step over homeless addict in SF when you can be in glorious sunny London? In King's X? With no threat of Trump? And two hours from all of Europe?
    I genuinely think London has an opportunity to become the alternative to the Bay Area for Big Tech.
    Yes, and more: as NYC sinks into crime, and is menaced by deeper political division, a lot of business in NYC will come here. Remote working suddenly benefits the UK

    Really. Why would you work in NYC or LA or SF if you can work in London?

    NYC is a great city and LA is jolly interesting and SF has a certain beauty, but they have grave downsides, and they are all trillions of miles from anywhere else

    Fly two hours from NYC and you are in, er, Toronto

    Compare that with London, when in 2 hours or less you can be in Paris, Venice, Berlin, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Rome, Florence, Edinburgh, Nice... and the Alps, the Balearics, Sicily, western Ireland, Burgundy, the Algarve, the Black Forest, the Dordogne, the Italian lakes, the Dolomites, Tyrol,...

    There is no comparison. If your job is no longer quite so tied to the Silicon Valley office, you will move to London
    The opportunity is there.

    Has been for a while and indeed for a brief moment London was essentially “the” global capital.

    Ironically, Ken Livingstone seemed to get this. Sadiq Khan doesn’t have a “Danny”.

    There are things London needs to work on to support this; someone upthread mentioned Shannon style facilities at Heathrow. Housing and dare I say it, various forms of access to the Continent would also be on the list.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    Can anyone explain what the Tory grassroots love so much about Boris? Thatcher I could understand. But Johnson only seems to care about Johnson. He didn't even really believe in Brexit and has shown no concern with protecting its legacy, just the continuance of his own time in office. He has lied repeatedly, including in parliament and appears hopelessly disorganised and incapable of getting stuff done. He received credit for 'getting Brexit done' although the situation patently isn't settled. The covid vaccines was hailed as a triumph but I doubt the Tory grassroots approved of all the restrictions, tax and spending. As for Ukraine he continued longstanding UK policy and is that really why they love him?

    Just a thought but I understand that the average member is a southern, higher income man. Are these yuppies? The sort who may be on to their third marriage, been taken to the cleaners a couple of times and see something of Boris in themselves, empathising with a kindred spirit locked out of his own home and alienated from the family he provided for? Maybe it's just a silly indulgence.

    Happy to be proven wrong.

    He makes them laugh.
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