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Poll of Tory councilors has Truss just 2% ahead – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Totally, totally off topic, but granddaughter-in-law has just announced that we are expecting our first great grandchild in January!

    Fantastic news Sir, many congratulations! :)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Totally, totally off topic, but granddaughter-in-law has just announced that we are expecting our first great grandchild in January!

    Congrats!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    British bands, know your place! Don't be playing none of your music to those there forriners! Local music for local people!

    Yeah I certainly can't think of any significant British bands who started their careers with a defining spell playing on the continent, like in Hamburg or something. That kind of thing definitely doesn't happen. (Pre-EU of course, but probably also pre a lot of the immigration bureaucracy that exists now).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Shit, the All bands are at least as big as Guns n Roses fallacy is a whole new level of stupid

    I will just throw out that professional musicians are in the main on very low pay, so that hon posters can come back with hur hur hur Elton John seems to be doing OK

    Womad had serious problems with specific booked acts in 2018 and 2019 and said that other acts declined to book

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/aug/02/womad-visa-fiasco-brexit-britain-live-music-festival
    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/feb/28/womad-uk-festival-artists-performers-brexit-visas

    We may not produce much ourselves these days, but one thing that I don't think there's a domestic shortage of is bands.
    and they all sound much the same. What is this World Music anyway?
    Of course they don't all sound the same. We have a massive variety of bands and performers in a massive variety of genres. Barriers are always a nuisance, and should be eliminated over time if possible. But in this instance, the demand (festivals wanting to book acts) is here, and the domestic supply is plentiful.

    By the way, what's the situation with bands from the US, Canada, Africa, the Middle East? Why haven't we been hearing about the dreadful restrictions on their tours for years?
    Because it was worth their while to come to the UK at no extra administrative expense as part of an EU tour.
    Just off the top of my head, I've looked at dates for the Pixies tour of Europe - they seem quite happy to include, for example, Serbia. Crossing in/out of the EU doesn't seem to present insurmountable obstacles.
    https://www.pixiesmusic.com/tour
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    There’s a fair number of European house music producers and DJs, and were lots of dance-pop bands in the ‘90s, mostly Dutch and German.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    I suspect language is the issue. A group that has great songs in (say) Czech is not going to make a hit in the UK or US, but English is so prevalent as a second language that any english language group can make it anywhere.

    I remember some great pop stuff from France in the early 2000s but it never took hold in the UK
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    Totally, totally off topic, but granddaughter-in-law has just announced that we are expecting our first great grandchild in January!

    Many felicitations.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,163

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    British bands, know your place! Don't be playing none of your music to those there forriners! Local music for local people!

    Yeah I certainly can't think of any significant British bands who started their careers with a defining spell playing on the continent, like in Hamburg or something. That kind of thing definitely doesn't happen. (Pre-EU of course, but probably also pre a lot of the immigration bureaucracy that exists now).
    Weren't they playing illegally because George Harrison was underage?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,163

    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    I suspect language is the issue. A group that has great songs in (say) Czech is not going to make a hit in the UK or US, but English is so prevalent as a second language that any english language group can make it anywhere.

    I remember some great pop stuff from France in the early 2000s but it never took hold in the UK
    Daft Punk
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    Not a fan of U2 then?

    But I did come across this little gem on wiki: "The European nation with the highest number of US number ones is the United Kingdom with 188. Sweden follows with 7."
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785
    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    I was looking at Scotland's mortality rates and they are double those in England for people around the age of 40 - I assume this is drug deaths taking a toll. It seems like your average heroin user can make it to that age before their body runs out of room.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited July 2022

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    Scrap business rates for small retail outlets, paid for by doubling rates on empty commercial premises, and make change of use permission easier to obtain. Oh, and councils need to stop hating cars, someone with a car isn’t going to get the bus, they’re going to go somewhere else in their car.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Still, the ‘dee keeping up the third element of jam, jute and journalism.




  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    Yes, good points and good answers all, and it's striking that all the answers given that I can see produce music with English lyrics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    edited July 2022
    Tres said:

    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    I suspect language is the issue. A group that has great songs in (say) Czech is not going to make a hit in the UK or US, but English is so prevalent as a second language that any english language group can make it anywhere.

    I remember some great pop stuff from France in the early 2000s but it never took hold in the UK
    Daft Punk
    I like Daft Punk, and apparently they put on a great live show. Of course there's some brilliant music acts originating from EU countries. It's just ludicrous to suggest that British music festivals can't make do without them till this is sorted. Because clealry they can, especially if UK acts cannot tour the continent as easily.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?

    2. Small time drug dealing is subject to the usual market forces, why haven't drugs gone up in step with alcohol reflecting increased demand?

    3. From my slim but not non existent knowledge of Scotch drink n druggies it is very much not an either/or situation. If deceased have say a litre of vodka plus some h and bennies floating about their system, how is cause of death recorded?

    Science is good, science preceded by "health experts have warned" not so much.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cookie said:

    Yes, good points and good answers all, and it's striking that all the answers given that I can see produce music with English lyrics.

    Focus were Dutch, and they didn't have English lyrics.

    Or any lyrics.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Still, the ‘dee keeping up the third element of jam, jute and journalism.




    In fairness most Scottish country dancing does indeed border on the tragic.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    IshmaelZ said:

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?

    2. Small time drug dealing is subject to the usual market forces, why haven't drugs gone up in step with alcohol reflecting increased demand?

    3. From my slim but not non existent knowledge of Scotch drink n druggies it is very much not an either/or situation. If deceased have say a litre of vodka plus some h and bennies floating about their system, how is cause of death recorded?

    Science is good, science preceded by "health experts have warned" not so much.
    Hush now, ‘Anecdotally, this is the case’ is perfectly sciencey.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    We could keep a couple as museums to teach children about the hilarious inefficiency of not having Amazon.
  • novanova Posts: 525

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
    That would get unpopular very quickly. You'd have a GP with a little timer and be expected to leave as soon as the ten minutes were up.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    What it's been for forever, as a valuable community meeting place and trading and commercial hub. It's fashionable to believe that the internet has made it obsolete, but I think it's more that ridiculous rents have destroyed it.

    Action needs to be taken on landlords who keep stores empty and whose buildings are dilapidated. Anything unsightly needs to be fined, till these buildings become too hot to hold and are sold, or tenants found at more reasonable rents. Then the High Street is viable. Shops in scruffy high streets in Scotland are looking for £30,000 a year in rent. How much do you have to sell to take that kind of hit?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996
    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    Seems like the kind of question with an answer that depends on your tastes. If you were into contemporary art music or jazz or dance music, you'd know EU acts. Into British-originates genres, much less so.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    It seems to be more about return the High Street to the way I remember it in my youth.
    Empty shops need compulsory purchase after a period, and either demolishing or turning into residencies.
    Having more families living there rather than grotty bedsits upstairs, would enliven them.
    Heck. It may even improve congestion by having more folk who work there actually live there.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Joanna not going quietly:

    A code of conduct designed to silence & marginalise those who believe biological sex is immutable or those with a same sex orientation would be discriminatory & unlawful. This can’t be what the proposers of the motion intend. Perhaps they could clarify that?



    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1553670052456579077
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    edited July 2022

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    Casino I respect that you tend to know about stuff you post on, but really have you any idea of the cost involved in temporary export/import for certain industries? Carnets are not an irritating border bureaucracy (well actually they are), but an absolutely massive cost for certain industries. Those industries that involve transporting large quantities of equipment that is then returned, particularly if the form of that equipment changes.

    By the way the friend of mine I referred to, set up massive stages some of which you will have seen at place like the Olympics, O2, etc. They quoted for the No 10 press room. Business dead overnight because European conference halls was a major part of their business and it died overnight because they could no longer compete because of the carnet issue. They just wound it up as there was no point in continuing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    kjh said:

    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.

    First of all, thanks for all the good wishes. Just hope all goes well between now and mid January!

    So what we are saying on the European issue is that once upon a time life was quite complicated. They became a great deal simpler and now it's very much more complicated again.

    One can well understand that being aggravating especially for those people who weren't involved in the first place.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    nova said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
    That would get unpopular very quickly. You'd have a GP with a little timer and be expected to leave as soon as the ten minutes were up.
    Or maybe the GPs would start when they're supposed to.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Congrats, Old King Cole :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    IshmaelZ said:

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?
    The number of alcohol-specific deaths has increased by 17% to 1,190 in 2020, up from 1,020 in 2019, according to statistics on deaths by various causes published today by National Records of Scotland.

    These figures show a return to the recent upward trend in the number of alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland following a decline in the previous year. This is the largest number of deaths due to alcohol recorded since 2008.

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/alcohol-specific-deaths-in-scotland-increase


  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?
    The number of alcohol-specific deaths has increased by 17% to 1,190 in 2020, up from 1,020 in 2019, according to statistics on deaths by various causes published today by National Records of Scotland.

    These figures show a return to the recent upward trend in the number of alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland following a decline in the previous year. This is the largest number of deaths due to alcohol recorded since 2008.

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/alcohol-specific-deaths-in-scotland-increase
    Which undermines the original thesis does it not?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    IshmaelZ said:

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?
    The number of alcohol-specific deaths has increased by 17% to 1,190 in 2020, up from 1,020 in 2019, according to statistics on deaths by various causes published today by National Records of Scotland.

    These figures show a return to the recent upward trend in the number of alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland following a decline in the previous year. This is the largest number of deaths due to alcohol recorded since 2008.

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/alcohol-specific-deaths-in-scotland-increase


    I think that there is a lot of speculation that those numbers have been significantly affected by Covid. Probably too early to tell.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Death by benzodiazepines?

    Speaking as someone with LOOOOOONG acquaintance and knowledge of benzos, killing yourself by them is really hard

    One way is to get a major Xanax addiction (Alprazolam) and then go cold turkey: that withdrawal is one of the worst known to man, and the seizures might indeed kill you

    But you first have to get a ton of Xanax. Not easy in the UK. No one prescribes it. Not stocked in chemists. The Darknet maybe if you understand Bitcoin

    And even then you have to get the addiction over time with a lot of Xan

    So what else? I guess benzo overdoses but they tend to put you to sleep before you can slip into a coma and die

    I can only think these are not benzos but some adulterated version with something much nastier inside: fentanyl? Barbiturates?

  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    What it's been for forever, as a valuable community meeting place and trading and commercial hub. It's fashionable to believe that the internet has made it obsolete, but I think it's more that ridiculous rents have destroyed it.

    Action needs to be taken on landlords who keep stores empty and whose buildings are dilapidated. Anything unsightly needs to be fined, till these buildings become too hot to hold and are sold, or tenants found at more reasonable rents. Then the High Street is viable. Shops in scruffy high streets in Scotland are looking for £30,000 a year in rent. How much do you have to sell to take that kind of hit?
    Convenience stores can probably manage it. Difficult with higher-value goods if you can't park a car in the premises.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    The affluent urban villages have likely been boosted by wfh giving the locals more time and money and effectively transferring spending from the city centres.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?
    The number of alcohol-specific deaths has increased by 17% to 1,190 in 2020, up from 1,020 in 2019, according to statistics on deaths by various causes published today by National Records of Scotland.

    These figures show a return to the recent upward trend in the number of alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland following a decline in the previous year. This is the largest number of deaths due to alcohol recorded since 2008.

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/alcohol-specific-deaths-in-scotland-increase
    Which undermines the original thesis does it not?
    No. It says BOTH are getting worse.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    edited July 2022

    kjh said:

    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.

    First of all, thanks for all the good wishes. Just hope all goes well between now and mid January!

    So what we are saying on the European issue is that once upon a time life was quite complicated. They became a great deal simpler and now it's very much more complicated again.

    One can well understand that being aggravating especially for those people who weren't involved in the first place.
    Yes but worse because before everyone had the same complication (unless you were providing to the home market). Now if you want to quote for an exhibition build in Germany you can't compete with any EU company.

    Many many years ago I was project managing a massive pre sales project in Cyprus (3 month build for a 3 week demo, final selection between us and our competitor, both major US manufacturers with lots of European bases but none in Cyprus). It turned into a disaster because of some temporary equipment I needed urgently I struggled to get through customs. It became apparent in my many calls to Cyprus customs our competitor had exactly the same issue. If that were now and a UK company was competing with say a French company that would be critical.

    It is not some trivial bit of bureaucracy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Interesting link from an observant acquaintance on Twitter. Lives in the north, but not the totally grim north

    "Really startling in Tesco this morning. All the prominent cross-aisle stands that promote big brand or ' affordable luxury' special offers have been given over to Tesco's bottom of the range, lowest quality own brand basics . The stuff that often genuinely tastes dreadful."

    https://twitter.com/DavidMorton359/status/1553679841106530311?s=20&t=6O0S_7PpW2K9E42yj7UR2w

    Whole thread worth reading

    Is the CoL kicking in this quick? If it is, winter could be a tiny bit hairy. You heard it here first
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Death by benzodiazepines?

    Speaking as someone with LOOOOOONG acquaintance and knowledge of benzos, killing yourself by them is really hard

    One way is to get a major Xanax addiction (Alprazolam) and then go cold turkey: that withdrawal is one of the worst known to man, and the seizures might indeed kill you

    But you first have to get a ton of Xanax. Not easy in the UK. No one prescribes it. Not stocked in chemists. The Darknet maybe if you understand Bitcoin

    And even then you have to get the addiction over time with a lot of Xan

    So what else? I guess benzo overdoses but they tend to put you to sleep before you can slip into a coma and die

    I can only think these are not benzos but some adulterated version with something much nastier inside: fentanyl? Barbiturates?

    Or it's that old covid standby: death WITH bennies vs death OF bennies

    I understand (and it may be bollocks) that in the US adulteration with fentanyl is usually not deliberate, it's that the stuff is so lethal that if your dealer doesn't use separate weighing and bagging gear the contamination is enough to kill you. The internet doesn't think street fent is really a thing in Scotland yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Meanwhile, in crimey NYC, shops are putting specially desirable products in hard-to-steal plastic boxes. Luxury goods like.... tinned spam

    "The thoroughly revamped loss-prevention regime at the Port Authority Duane Reade has finally created something of beauty, a sort of Jeff Koons homage."


    https://twitter.com/willystaley/status/1552736176590708736?s=20&t=CC--duJK_A3lxQqa4E4tJQ
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Death by benzodiazepines?

    Speaking as someone with LOOOOOONG acquaintance and knowledge of benzos, killing yourself by them is really hard

    One way is to get a major Xanax addiction (Alprazolam) and then go cold turkey: that withdrawal is one of the worst known to man, and the seizures might indeed kill you

    But you first have to get a ton of Xanax. Not easy in the UK. No one prescribes it. Not stocked in chemists. The Darknet maybe if you understand Bitcoin

    And even then you have to get the addiction over time with a lot of Xan

    So what else? I guess benzo overdoses but they tend to put you to sleep before you can slip into a coma and die

    I can only think these are not benzos but some adulterated version with something much nastier inside: fentanyl? Barbiturates?

    That bit was a direct quote from the report. It is the combination that seems to be lethal, most deaths involving benzos also involve something else, whether opiates or alcohol. I can only presume that the benzos are suppressing self defence mechanisms in the body if they puke or something.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Death by benzodiazepines?

    Speaking as someone with LOOOOOONG acquaintance and knowledge of benzos, killing yourself by them is really hard

    One way is to get a major Xanax addiction (Alprazolam) and then go cold turkey: that withdrawal is one of the worst known to man, and the seizures might indeed kill you

    But you first have to get a ton of Xanax. Not easy in the UK. No one prescribes it. Not stocked in chemists. The Darknet maybe if you understand Bitcoin

    And even then you have to get the addiction over time with a lot of Xan

    So what else? I guess benzo overdoses but they tend to put you to sleep before you can slip into a coma and die

    I can only think these are not benzos but some adulterated version with something much nastier inside: fentanyl? Barbiturates?

    Or it's that old covid standby: death WITH bennies vs death OF bennies

    I understand (and it may be bollocks) that in the US adulteration with fentanyl is usually not deliberate, it's that the stuff is so lethal that if your dealer doesn't use separate weighing and bagging gear the contamination is enough to kill you. The internet doesn't think street fent is really a thing in Scotland yet.
    Perhaps. And yet mixing it with Fentanyl - if you have it - makes sense as Fentanyl is cheap and intensely addictive, so you are creating clients (and killing some, but hey)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Interesting link from an observant acquaintance on Twitter. Lives in the north, but not the totally grim north

    "Really startling in Tesco this morning. All the prominent cross-aisle stands that promote big brand or ' affordable luxury' special offers have been given over to Tesco's bottom of the range, lowest quality own brand basics . The stuff that often genuinely tastes dreadful."

    https://twitter.com/DavidMorton359/status/1553679841106530311?s=20&t=6O0S_7PpW2K9E42yj7UR2w

    Whole thread worth reading

    Is the CoL kicking in this quick? If it is, winter could be a tiny bit hairy. You heard it here first

    My Tesco has gone the other way and filled the whole fruit section with 25% off six bottles wine. Off to stock up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.

    First of all, thanks for all the good wishes. Just hope all goes well between now and mid January!

    So what we are saying on the European issue is that once upon a time life was quite complicated. They became a great deal simpler and now it's very much more complicated again.

    One can well understand that being aggravating especially for those people who weren't involved in the first place.
    Yes but worse because before everyone had the same complication (unless you were providing to the home market). Now if you want to quote for an exhibition build in Germany you can't compete with any EU company.

    Many many years ago I was project managing a massive pre sales project in Cyprus (3 month build for a 3 week demo, final selection between us and our competitor, both major US manufacturers with lots of European bases but none in Cyprus). It turned into a disaster because of some temporary equipment I needed urgently I struggled to get through customs. It became apparent in my many calls to Cyprus customs our competitor had exactly the same issue. If that were now and a UK company was competing with say a French company that would be critical.

    It is not some trivial bit of bureaucracy.
    Until a couple of years ago members of my family were heavily involved with Formula One at quite a high level. One of them in particular used to tell stories of the difficulties they had with places such as Turkey and South Korea; much greater difficulties that they had with anywhere in Europe. Didn't seem to have the same problems with Australia but maybe there wasn't a language issue there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    There are some interesting details in the sombre drugs deaths report for Scotland. 65% of drug deaths are now in the age range 35-54 and the average age of death has increased from 32 to 44 over the last 21 years.

    The Trainspotting generation got hooked on drugs like no generation before it or indeed since and they are still dying from them 25 years later. Drug treatment services in Scotland are beyond useless but what there is seems to be focused on a much younger demographic. This may be realistic: those who have destroyed their bodies and their brains for 20 years plus may simply be beyond help, but it still seems to me to be strange.

    What is crystal clear is that if real progress is to be made (and, by the way 1% of 1339 is not 9) is that that generation in particular needs to be medicated and their addictions managed rather than prosecuted or isolated from society. An investment in mental health is also urgently required. By far the largest cause of deaths is benzodiazepines. In 2015 there were 191 of these deaths and in 2021 there were 918; almost five times as many. This increase has mostly been driven by street benzodiazepines rather than those which are prescribed. Its very likely that they will overtake opiates in the next few years as the primary cause of death (the reason that they have not done so already is the combination of the two is most lethal of all). The element of self medication here must be huge.

    Dundee City, sadly, retains its crown with the highest death rate in Scotland which, of course, has the highest death rate in Europe. At 45.2 per 100k people someone dies of a drugs overdose in Dundee every single day.

    Death by benzodiazepines?

    Speaking as someone with LOOOOOONG acquaintance and knowledge of benzos, killing yourself by them is really hard

    One way is to get a major Xanax addiction (Alprazolam) and then go cold turkey: that withdrawal is one of the worst known to man, and the seizures might indeed kill you

    But you first have to get a ton of Xanax. Not easy in the UK. No one prescribes it. Not stocked in chemists. The Darknet maybe if you understand Bitcoin

    And even then you have to get the addiction over time with a lot of Xan

    So what else? I guess benzo overdoses but they tend to put you to sleep before you can slip into a coma and die

    I can only think these are not benzos but some adulterated version with something much nastier inside: fentanyl? Barbiturates?

    That bit was a direct quote from the report. It is the combination that seems to be lethal, most deaths involving benzos also involve something else, whether opiates or alcohol. I can only presume that the benzos are suppressing self defence mechanisms in the body if they puke or something.
    Yes, if you have a bunch of bennies it will suppress your breathing and make you very very vague, perhaps opening you up to actual death by something else - too much booze and you can't vomit properly so you choke, perhaps
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.

    First of all, thanks for all the good wishes. Just hope all goes well between now and mid January!

    So what we are saying on the European issue is that once upon a time life was quite complicated. They became a great deal simpler and now it's very much more complicated again.

    One can well understand that being aggravating especially for those people who weren't involved in the first place.
    Yes but worse because before everyone had the same complication (unless you were providing to the home market). Now if you want to quote for an exhibition build in Germany you can't compete with any EU company.

    Many many years ago I was project managing a massive pre sales project in Cyprus (3 month build for a 3 week demo, final selection between us and our competitor, both major US manufacturers with lots of European bases but none in Cyprus). It turned into a disaster because of some temporary equipment I needed urgently I struggled to get through customs. It became apparent in my many calls to Cyprus customs our competitor had exactly the same issue. If that were now and a UK company was competing with say a French company that would be critical.

    It is not some trivial bit of bureaucracy.
    Until a couple of years ago members of my family were heavily involved with Formula One at quite a high level. One of them in particular used to tell stories of the difficulties they had with places such as Turkey and South Korea; much greater difficulties that they had with anywhere in Europe. Didn't seem to have the same problems with Australia but maybe there wasn't a language issue there.
    F1 stopped going to India, purely because of the multiple layers of obstinate bureaucracy all wanting their cut of the event.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    That’s one heck of an unintended consequence:

    Scotland’s state-imposed price controls for alcohol have driven some people to turn to cheap street drugs linked to hundreds of deaths last year, health experts have warned.

    Last week official statistics confirmed that Scotland remains the drug death capital of Europe, with a growing number of fatalities among women.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minimum-alcohol-pricing-has-driven-people-to-street-drugs-say-experts-8t5z8tsf9

    1. Has someone done the net calculation including any fall in alcohol related deaths?
    The number of alcohol-specific deaths has increased by 17% to 1,190 in 2020, up from 1,020 in 2019, according to statistics on deaths by various causes published today by National Records of Scotland.

    These figures show a return to the recent upward trend in the number of alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland following a decline in the previous year. This is the largest number of deaths due to alcohol recorded since 2008.

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/alcohol-specific-deaths-in-scotland-increase
    Which undermines the original thesis does it not?
    No. It says BOTH are getting worse.
    Yes, but the thesis was higher drink prices were moving people off drink to drugs. I f that were true drink deaths should be falling, other things being equal.

    And of course other things have very much not been equal, what with covid. Drink and drug taking went through the roof worldwide during lockdowns. So nothing proves anything anyway.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Ditto London. Prime shopping streets in the West End - especially Oxford Street - are a sorry sight. Endless cheap American candy stores with no customers. A few homeless people. Bewildered tourists wondering why this street is famous. Tumbleweed

    And yet go a block either way and food-drink-entertainment London is often booming, with people flooding back in to have fun. Just not shopping
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.

    First of all, thanks for all the good wishes. Just hope all goes well between now and mid January!

    So what we are saying on the European issue is that once upon a time life was quite complicated. They became a great deal simpler and now it's very much more complicated again.

    One can well understand that being aggravating especially for those people who weren't involved in the first place.
    Yes but worse because before everyone had the same complication (unless you were providing to the home market). Now if you want to quote for an exhibition build in Germany you can't compete with any EU company.

    Many many years ago I was project managing a massive pre sales project in Cyprus (3 month build for a 3 week demo, final selection between us and our competitor, both major US manufacturers with lots of European bases but none in Cyprus). It turned into a disaster because of some temporary equipment I needed urgently I struggled to get through customs. It became apparent in my many calls to Cyprus customs our competitor had exactly the same issue. If that were now and a UK company was competing with say a French company that would be critical.

    It is not some trivial bit of bureaucracy.
    Until a couple of years ago members of my family were heavily involved with Formula One at quite a high level. One of them in particular used to tell stories of the difficulties they had with places such as Turkey and South Korea; much greater difficulties that they had with anywhere in Europe. Didn't seem to have the same problems with Australia but maybe there wasn't a language issue there.
    Speaking of F1, has TSE been misbehaving?

    Formula 1: Michael Masi reveals death threats after Abu Dhabi finale

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62367391
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Interesting link from an observant acquaintance on Twitter. Lives in the north, but not the totally grim north

    "Really startling in Tesco this morning. All the prominent cross-aisle stands that promote big brand or ' affordable luxury' special offers have been given over to Tesco's bottom of the range, lowest quality own brand basics . The stuff that often genuinely tastes dreadful."

    https://twitter.com/DavidMorton359/status/1553679841106530311?s=20&t=6O0S_7PpW2K9E42yj7UR2w

    Whole thread worth reading

    Is the CoL kicking in this quick? If it is, winter could be a tiny bit hairy. You heard it here first

    My Tesco has gone the other way and filled the whole fruit section with 25% off six bottles wine. Off to stock up.
    Sounds more like they're preparing for Armagedddon

    "Fuck fruit, who wants boring healthy fruit. We're all going to die this winter. Sell only wine, everyone wants to get drunk"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Ditto London. Prime shopping streets in the West End - especially Oxford Street - are a sorry sight. Endless cheap American candy stores with no customers. A few homeless people. Bewildered tourists wondering why this street is famous. Tumbleweed

    And yet go a block either way and food-drink-entertainment London is often booming, with people flooding back in to have fun. Just not shopping
    Same sort of thing here. Cannock town centre is dead, and the new retail outlet doesn't look especially busy to my untutored eye. But Chadsmoor is actually doing pretty well at the moment.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Interesting link from an observant acquaintance on Twitter. Lives in the north, but not the totally grim north

    "Really startling in Tesco this morning. All the prominent cross-aisle stands that promote big brand or ' affordable luxury' special offers have been given over to Tesco's bottom of the range, lowest quality own brand basics . The stuff that often genuinely tastes dreadful."

    https://twitter.com/DavidMorton359/status/1553679841106530311?s=20&t=6O0S_7PpW2K9E42yj7UR2w

    Whole thread worth reading

    Is the CoL kicking in this quick? If it is, winter could be a tiny bit hairy. You heard it here first

    Last two visits to Asda, both times seen a group of 3 or 4 walk in, grab portable high value items, re group and run in different directions. I know this has always happened, but it's twice in succession. And very blatant.
    Were 1 or 2 security guards at the door.
    Now 4.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    edited July 2022
    I suspect we are hyperbolising the threat of this coming winter (yes, I know, I'm not personally averse to hyperbole, usually)


    Are we really going to see civil unrest over energy prices? Really?

    Strikes me the British way is to grumble not riot. It will be like a winter from the 1970s, cold and grey and grim, but still nowhere near as bad as the winter lockdowns, so we will cope quite well. At least the pubs will be open so we can have a cheap pint of ersatz "lager" with a malnourished friend

    I make this prediction confidently, as someone who fully expects to spend a large chunk of the winter in Bangkok
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Ditto London. Prime shopping streets in the West End - especially Oxford Street - are a sorry sight. Endless cheap American candy stores with no customers. A few homeless people. Bewildered tourists wondering why this street is famous. Tumbleweed

    And yet go a block either way and food-drink-entertainment London is often booming, with people flooding back in to have fun. Just not shopping
    The American candy stores are an add one. Apparently dodginess reigns. Lack of customers seems an almost incidental issue.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/13/american-candy-stores-taking-britains-high-streets/
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996
    I think the tourist high street thing is a post-Covid problem, maybe even pre-Covid, but the apparent distress in normal town centres for successful retailers like Tesco is new.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    edited July 2022

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Just out of interest do people know what the Carnet issue is? I'm guessing lots do here, but when I see quotes comparing the cost or involvement to hotel bills or costing £1000 it might be worth explaining to those who don't.

    You do not need a carnet to export, but if you take stuff abroad and then bring it back within a certain time period with you you need a carnet to avoid any tariffs. This is a temporary export. When you come back you have to show you have returned everything. Therefore there is a great deal of logistics before you go and when you return.

    This all disappeared in the EU, but has returned with Brexit.

    Before it disappeared in the EU I did this regularly. I never made a single trip where issues did not arise. Not one and that was with just a car load of equipment. I never met a single person who didn't have issues. mainly because customs, anywhere, have not a clue what the equipment you are carrying is. They are not experts on everything.

    Now consider certain industries who load multiple trailers up with stuff that is coming back. A pristine F1 car goes out and wreak comes back, the tyres are used with a couple lying in shreads by the side of the race track together with a front wing so they are not there or not recognisable. Accounting for every bit of the Rolling Stones equipment going out and coming back would be impossible. Stuff would be lost, broken and replaced (I had to bring broken stuff back, even if replaced) and all packed up differently. An exhibition provider builds on set. None of the stuff comes back the same.

    This is not like booking 100 hotel rooms and it costs a fortune for certain industries. It requires hordes of people to manage it.

    First of all, thanks for all the good wishes. Just hope all goes well between now and mid January!

    So what we are saying on the European issue is that once upon a time life was quite complicated. They became a great deal simpler and now it's very much more complicated again.

    One can well understand that being aggravating especially for those people who weren't involved in the first place.
    Yes but worse because before everyone had the same complication (unless you were providing to the home market). Now if you want to quote for an exhibition build in Germany you can't compete with any EU company.

    Many many years ago I was project managing a massive pre sales project in Cyprus (3 month build for a 3 week demo, final selection between us and our competitor, both major US manufacturers with lots of European bases but none in Cyprus). It turned into a disaster because of some temporary equipment I needed urgently I struggled to get through customs. It became apparent in my many calls to Cyprus customs our competitor had exactly the same issue. If that were now and a UK company was competing with say a French company that would be critical.

    It is not some trivial bit of bureaucracy.
    Until a couple of years ago members of my family were heavily involved with Formula One at quite a high level. One of them in particular used to tell stories of the difficulties they had with places such as Turkey and South Korea; much greater difficulties that they had with anywhere in Europe. Didn't seem to have the same problems with Australia but maybe there wasn't a language issue there.
    Yes and I assume there are all sorts of other issues as well that has nothing to do with Brexit, so I'm not surprised Australia was easier. Of course these teams know they have to do this and they can't turn up the next day for a race, so they put huge resources into this.

    Some countries are easy to deal with than others regardless of Brexit. Brexit is not the fault of everything. However I do get frustrated when people say it is only the borderline companies that will go under, for 2 reasons:

    a) There are very successful companies who, because of the nature of their business, are devastated.

    b) It is ridiculous to just look at those that have gone under, as the ones just above them could now less profitable and now borderline, and the ones above them who were very profitable are still so, but less so.

    Also we get the constant reference to it wasn't Brexit it was 'x'. That invariably is always going to be the case. 'x' may be the major reason for a company having a problem, but Brexit probably doesn't help and maybe the reason for tipping it over the edge.

    Same for other stuff. Eg queues at ports. It might be because of a storm or a strike or French farmers burning tyres on the motorway, but added delays tip things over the edge.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Leon said:

    I suspect we are hyperbolising the threat of this coming winter (yes, I know, I'm not personally averse to hyperbole, usually)


    Are we really going to see civil unrest over energy prices? Really?

    Strikes me the British way is to grumble not riot. It will be like a winter from the 1970s, cold and grey and grim, but still nowhere near as bad as the winter lockdowns, so we will cope quite well. At least the pubs will be open so we can have a cheap pint of ersatz "lager" with a malnourished friend

    I make this prediction confidently, as someone who fully expects to spend a large chunk of the winter in Bangkok

    It's going to be exceptionally difficult for those nations almost totally reliant on gas or oil for power and fuel.

    I wonder, for example, what will happen in Malta, which generates 78% of its electricity from gas and the rest from diesel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Ditto London. Prime shopping streets in the West End - especially Oxford Street - are a sorry sight. Endless cheap American candy stores with no customers. A few homeless people. Bewildered tourists wondering why this street is famous. Tumbleweed

    And yet go a block either way and food-drink-entertainment London is often booming, with people flooding back in to have fun. Just not shopping
    The American candy stores are an add one. Apparently dodginess reigns. Lack of customers seems an almost incidental issue.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/13/american-candy-stores-taking-britains-high-streets/
    Money laundering, supposedly

    Pre pandemic there was a "Russian pie shop" on Parkway Camden which had maybe 2 customers a month, and they looked like "friends of the owners". Unsurprising, really. Camden likes trendy world foods and "Russian pies" doesn't really cut it, even if they are nice (and they didn't look nice, they looked like Russian pies)

    Incredibly it lasted about two years with zero custom. Halfway through I realised "custom" wasn't the point
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    The UK arms industry ought to be looking to expand. India is cutting its ties with Russian weapons, I presume others will be too as they're proven to be rubbish and Russian industry collapses. I was shocked to see figures that Germany is a much bigger arms exporter than we are.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Ditto London. Prime shopping streets in the West End - especially Oxford Street - are a sorry sight. Endless cheap American candy stores with no customers. A few homeless people. Bewildered tourists wondering why this street is famous. Tumbleweed

    And yet go a block either way and food-drink-entertainment London is often booming, with people flooding back in to have fun. Just not shopping
    The American candy stores are an add one. Apparently dodginess reigns. Lack of customers seems an almost incidental issue.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/13/american-candy-stores-taking-britains-high-streets/
    Money laundering, supposedly

    Pre pandemic there was a "Russian pie shop" on Parkway Camden which had maybe 2 customers a month, and they looked like "friends of the owners". Unsurprising, really. Camden likes trendy world foods and "Russian pies" doesn't really cut it, even if they are nice (and they didn't look nice, they looked like Russian pies)

    Incredibly it lasted about two years with zero custom. Halfway through I realised "custom" wasn't the point
    Sounds like Walter White’s car wash.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,493
    edited July 2022

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Princes street has been killed off by the new (and superb) St James'. Leith Walk is going to end up better, once the trams are done. It's already endless coffee shops, pizzerias, bakeries, barbers, florists, bookshops etc etc.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    EPG said:

    Cookie said:



    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?

    Seems like the kind of question with an answer that depends on your tastes. If you were into contemporary art music or jazz or dance music, you'd know EU acts. Into British-originates genres, much less so.
    Mmm. Personally my (pop, rock) music is almost entirely Continental - Swedish, Danish, German. Can't make sense of most modern British pop at all. There's no point in arguing about taste, but I think that once formed it's hard to change, and generally tastes are determined during the hormone-charged teens. Because I grew up surrounded by the likes of Abba, that's what I like.

    I do have a friend who signed a "Save Radio 3" petition when he was a kid, not because he liked classical music but because he foresaw (correctly) that he would like it one day. So some people do grow up and evolve...do most of you like different things from when you were younger?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    I suspect we are hyperbolising the threat of this coming winter (yes, I know, I'm not personally averse to hyperbole, usually)


    Are we really going to see civil unrest over energy prices? Really?

    Strikes me the British way is to grumble not riot. It will be like a winter from the 1970s, cold and grey and grim, but still nowhere near as bad as the winter lockdowns, so we will cope quite well. At least the pubs will be open so we can have a cheap pint of ersatz "lager" with a malnourished friend

    I make this prediction confidently, as someone who fully expects to spend a large chunk of the winter in Bangkok

    It's going to be exceptionally difficult for those nations almost totally reliant on gas or oil for power and fuel.

    I wonder, for example, what will happen in Malta, which generates 78% of its electricity from gas and the rest from diesel.
    St Lucia 100% diesel. Ditto Cape Verde, where most islands depend on electric to desalinate fresh water.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
    100%. See my umpteen posts. People who don't understand carnets haven't a clue.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    EPG said:

    I think the tourist high street thing is a post-Covid problem, maybe even pre-Covid, but the apparent distress in normal town centres for successful retailers like Tesco is new.

    Its absolutely a range of factors, Covid being one. The other thing is making it much more expensive and unattractive to drive into town/city centres, without measurably improving the public transport offering (if at all).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
    100%. See my umpteen posts. People who don't understand carnets haven't a clue.
    What would be your solution, to this obstinate EU bureaucracy?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    What it's been for forever, as a valuable community meeting place and trading and commercial hub. It's fashionable to believe that the internet has made it obsolete, but I think it's more that ridiculous rents have destroyed it.

    Action needs to be taken on landlords who keep stores empty and whose buildings are dilapidated. Anything unsightly needs to be fined, till these buildings become too hot to hold and are sold, or tenants found at more reasonable rents. Then the High Street is viable. Shops in scruffy high streets in Scotland are looking for £30,000 a year in rent. How much do you have to sell to take that kind of hit?
    The "the Internet" (and more to the point supermarkets and large stores) have massively reduced the value of the High Street shops. The banks and landlords can't admit that commercial property of this type had collapsed, and neither can the councils.
  • novanova Posts: 525

    nova said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
    That would get unpopular very quickly. You'd have a GP with a little timer and be expected to leave as soon as the ten minutes were up.
    Or maybe the GPs would start when they're supposed to.
    Do you genuinely think waiting at GPs is caused by them not bothering to call in their first appointment till it's well past the scheduled time?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Eabhal said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Princes street has been killed off by the new (and superb) St James'. Leith Walk is going to end up better, once the trams are done. It's already endless coffee shops, pizzerias, bakeries, barbers, florists, bookshops etc etc.
    Which are all things that people want, near them. Part of the High Street problem is shops trying to hang on, long after their USP is gone. Woolworths was dead on it's feet, for years, for example.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    It’s coming home!

    He’ll get a ticking off for that. Apparently it’s arrogant to consider England the home of football.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,163
    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
    100%. See my umpteen posts. People who don't understand carnets haven't a clue.
    What would be your solution, to this obstinate EU bureaucracy?
    i'm sure we all have the imagination to conceive of something other than Johnson's half-baked brexit deal
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785
    a

    Eabhal said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Princes street has been killed off by the new (and superb) St James'. Leith Walk is going to end up better, once the trams are done. It's already endless coffee shops, pizzerias, bakeries, barbers, florists, bookshops etc etc.
    Which are all things that people want, near them. Part of the High Street problem is shops trying to hang on, long after their USP is gone. Woolworths was dead on it's feet, for years, for example.
    And Princes street is quite far from where most people in Edinburgh live (brilliant public transport aside). Leith Walk is the most densely populated spot in Scotland, apparently.


  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    I suspect we are hyperbolising the threat of this coming winter (yes, I know, I'm not personally averse to hyperbole, usually)


    Are we really going to see civil unrest over energy prices? Really?

    Strikes me the British way is to grumble not riot. It will be like a winter from the 1970s, cold and grey and grim, but still nowhere near as bad as the winter lockdowns, so we will cope quite well. At least the pubs will be open so we can have a cheap pint of ersatz "lager" with a malnourished friend

    I make this prediction confidently, as someone who fully expects to spend a large chunk of the winter in Bangkok

    I think the Everybody cancel their direct debit on 1 October plan has legs. I agree rioting in the cold and wet is no fun.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,163
    Eabhal said:

    a

    Eabhal said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Princes street has been killed off by the new (and superb) St James'. Leith Walk is going to end up better, once the trams are done. It's already endless coffee shops, pizzerias, bakeries, barbers, florists, bookshops etc etc.
    Which are all things that people want, near them. Part of the High Street problem is shops trying to hang on, long after their USP is gone. Woolworths was dead on it's feet, for years, for example.
    And Princes street is quite far from where most people in Edinburgh live (brilliant public transport aside). Leith Walk is the most densely populated spot in Scotland, apparently.


    I like that map, where does it come from?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
    100%. See my umpteen posts. People who don't understand carnets haven't a clue.
    What would be your solution, to this obstinate EU bureaucracy?
    i'm sure we all have the imagination to conceive of something other than Johnson's half-baked brexit deal
    But we are where we are, what is the solution from here?

    Is there any campaign in the EU, from people affected by temporary imports to the UK, to do something about it?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Leon said:

    Interesting link from an observant acquaintance on Twitter. Lives in the north, but not the totally grim north

    "Really startling in Tesco this morning. All the prominent cross-aisle stands that promote big brand or ' affordable luxury' special offers have been given over to Tesco's bottom of the range, lowest quality own brand basics . The stuff that often genuinely tastes dreadful."

    https://twitter.com/DavidMorton359/status/1553679841106530311?s=20&t=6O0S_7PpW2K9E42yj7UR2w

    Whole thread worth reading

    Is the CoL kicking in this quick? If it is, winter could be a tiny bit hairy. You heard it here first

    If so what we might see then are cheaper offers on the high end stuff if sales of them fall.

    The different prices of similar items are interesting:

    Bottom of the range beans - 22p
    Own label beans - 40p
    Own label organic beans - 75p
    Branston beans - 80p
    Heinz beans - 2 for £2 or 4 for £3
    Organic Heinz beans - £1.40

    https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/food-cupboard/tins-cans-and-packets/baked-beans?sortBy=price-ascending
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Leon said:

    I suspect we are hyperbolising the threat of this coming winter (yes, I know, I'm not personally averse to hyperbole, usually)


    Are we really going to see civil unrest over energy prices? Really?

    Strikes me the British way is to grumble not riot. It will be like a winter from the 1970s, cold and grey and grim, but still nowhere near as bad as the winter lockdowns, so we will cope quite well. At least the pubs will be open so we can have a cheap pint of ersatz "lager" with a malnourished friend

    I make this prediction confidently, as someone who fully expects to spend a large chunk of the winter in Bangkok

    The UK is relatively well-placed compared to many other countries, so I expect the situation to be worse elsewhere.

    We'll see if the payment strike gathers momentum. Politically that could make the situation very difficult for the government, particularly if it led to further collapses among the retail energy companies.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785
    Tres said:

    Eabhal said:

    a

    Eabhal said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Princes street has been killed off by the new (and superb) St James'. Leith Walk is going to end up better, once the trams are done. It's already endless coffee shops, pizzerias, bakeries, barbers, florists, bookshops etc etc.
    Which are all things that people want, near them. Part of the High Street problem is shops trying to hang on, long after their USP is gone. Woolworths was dead on it's feet, for years, for example.
    And Princes street is quite far from where most people in Edinburgh live (brilliant public transport aside). Leith Walk is the most densely populated spot in Scotland, apparently.


    I like that map, where does it come from?
    https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/24263/population-distribution-and-density#:~:text=The location with the highest,else in Scotland, including Glasgow.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,163
    Sandpit said:

    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
    100%. See my umpteen posts. People who don't understand carnets haven't a clue.
    What would be your solution, to this obstinate EU bureaucracy?
    i'm sure we all have the imagination to conceive of something other than Johnson's half-baked brexit deal
    But we are where we are, what is the solution from here?

    Is there any campaign in the EU, from people affected by temporary imports to the UK, to do something about it?
    personally i'm just going to whinge about it for the rest of my life, then when I receive a pension the politicians will start listening to me.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    Not a fan of U2 then?

    But I did come across this little gem on wiki: "The European nation with the highest number of US number ones is the United Kingdom with 188. Sweden follows with 7."
    Wife and I both bought the same U2 album in the years before we met and we're both equally embarrassed at having done so. One of the reasons we're a good match.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    nova said:

    nova said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
    That would get unpopular very quickly. You'd have a GP with a little timer and be expected to leave as soon as the ten minutes were up.
    Or maybe the GPs would start when they're supposed to.
    Do you genuinely think waiting at GPs is caused by them not bothering to call in their first appointment till it's well past the scheduled time?
    I've no idea but I've certainly had appointments at or before 9am and still had to wait 30 minutes.

    And I know other people who have had similar experiences.

    And if they get so behind schedule that early then its likely that everyone will be kept waiting throughout the rest of the day.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Leon said:

    I suspect we are hyperbolising the threat of this coming winter (yes, I know, I'm not personally averse to hyperbole, usually)


    Are we really going to see civil unrest over energy prices? Really?

    Strikes me the British way is to grumble not riot. It will be like a winter from the 1970s, cold and grey and grim, but still nowhere near as bad as the winter lockdowns, so we will cope quite well. At least the pubs will be open so we can have a cheap pint of ersatz "lager" with a malnourished friend

    I make this prediction confidently, as someone who fully expects to spend a large chunk of the winter in Bangkok

    The UK is relatively well-placed compared to many other countries, so I expect the situation to be worse elsewhere.

    We'll see if the payment strike gathers momentum. Politically that could make the situation very difficult for the government, particularly if it led to further collapses among the retail energy companies.
    It would lead to a very rapid loss of sympathy from those who do pay to those who don't.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    A quarter of Tory members want Boris to be on the ballot according to a ConHome survey and 35% would still vote for him to be leader if he was

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1553700545990377472?s=20&t=cJkGEXYSAvu-S_Uikr6u6A
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    edited July 2022
    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    Brexit does not mean no bands will turn up, but the carnet issue is devastating and something that was obviously going to be an issue. I was banging on about it here pre brexit as it was an area I had some experience. A friend of mine who had an exhibition business was effectively put out of business overnight because he could no longer compete in Europe for any large event. If you are moving large trailers of equipment back and forth eg exhibitions, bands, F1 the impact is devastating. F1 will survive because it is so dominant here but it's still impacted and I'm sure they will warehouse a lot more in Europe.

    Just because bands still turn up does not mean it is devastating. Lots won't and the UK may stop being the kick off or central location for European tours
    Obviously I meant 'does not mean it isn't devastating' In answer to @tres I don't think there will be any big US bands who don't turn up. They still will. The main issue will be bands travelling to and from Europe from the UK. Smaller bands might stop, but the Rolling Stones won't, but it will cost them a lot more. Not sure what impact it will have on a US based band as they will have carnet issues anyway. I expect more to base their tours from Europe and not the UK.
    "I know a guy who knows a guy.."

    There is a big market for stories about trivial Brexit frustrations at the margins.

    Any band that wants to play to its UK fan base (which is likely to be their biggest in Europe, and from which they will earn tens of millions in royalties, publicity and sales) isn't going to be put off by a £600 carnet fee, or even paying someone £1,000 to organise it for them, just as they wouldn't be by hotel bills or a tour management team and publicist.

    You'd have to be a very modest band on a shoestring tour for this to be the deciding factor, and, if it were, you'd have bigger problems.
    Every big band starts life as a modest band.
    And modest bands at the start of their lives don't tend to go on massive international tours.

    Ticket sales and popularity are the deciding factor here and it's absurd to suggest it's anything else, no matter how irritating border bureaucracy might be.
    ‘Brexit and the end of free movement of people and goods between the UK and the EU has put paid to such convenience – the carnet system now means that bands are obligated to return with the exact gear they left with, right down to the serial numbers...

    ‘’’The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs.

    “That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!”

    ‘In addition to the stress of not being able to replace faulty gear on the road, and the expense of having to pay to ship backups for every essential item on the tour regardless of how small or commonplace, the hassle for touring artists starts before they even go on tour – every item that comes on tour has to be catalogued, weighed and the serial number noted for the carnet…

    ‘With the addition of huge delays leaving and returning to Britain, and unprecedented expense and strain put on support bands who do not have the logistical support of an established band, Lunn concludes with a sombre message for the future of UK artists wanting to work in the EU.

    ‘“Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation,” he writes. “It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.’’’

    https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/the-suffering-is-only-just-beginning-subways-guitarist-reveals-the-harsh-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-bands-touring-europe/

    Brexit is seriously hindering UK bands, particularly the ones that aren’t big names, from touring in the EU. It’s absurd to suggest anything else.
    100%. See my umpteen posts. People who don't understand carnets haven't a clue.
    What would be your solution, to this obstinate EU bureaucracy?
    I guess not start here. Why do you think the EU is obstinate bureaucracy?. We do the same. That is what you have to do with this deal.

    Crap deal.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    HYUFD said:

    A quarter of Tory members want Boris to be on the ballot according to a ConHome survey and 35% would still vote for him to be leader if he was

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1553700545990377472?s=20&t=cJkGEXYSAvu-S_Uikr6u6A

    Which shows that he would have been safe if he hadn't destroyed himself with his immature behaviour.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    Not a fan of U2 then?

    But I did come across this little gem on wiki: "The European nation with the highest number of US number ones is the United Kingdom with 188. Sweden follows with 7."
    Wife and I both bought the same U2 album in the years before we met and we're both equally embarrassed at having done so. One of the reasons we're a good match.
    I used to think U2 were shite, then Achtung Baby came out, which I thought brilliant, but then they went back to being shite again. So I think they’re a shite band who managed one great album. It’s hard being a taste arbiter.
  • I've just been down to Waitrose on Marlborough High Street and noticed for the first time that the little alleyway on one side of it, which leads now to couple of old cottages and a not so old church, is called Riding School Yard. So presumably, part of Waitrose used to be a riding school, on the High Street
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    I've just been down to Waitrose on Marlborough High Street and noticed for the first time that the little alleyway on one side of it, which leads now to couple of old cottages and a not so old church, is called Riding School Yard. So presumably, part of Waitrose used to be a riding school, on the High Street

    Good to know.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    The UK arms industry ought to be looking to expand. India is cutting its ties with Russian weapons, I presume others will be too as they're proven to be rubbish and Russian industry collapses. I was shocked to see figures that Germany is a much bigger arms exporter than we are.

    As a BAe shareholder, years ago, I raged at their selling H&K.

    nova said:

    nova said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
    That would get unpopular very quickly. You'd have a GP with a little timer and be expected to leave as soon as the ten minutes were up.
    Or maybe the GPs would start when they're supposed to.
    Do you genuinely think waiting at GPs is caused by them not bothering to call in their first appointment till it's well past the scheduled time?
    I've no idea but I've certainly had appointments at or before 9am and still had to wait 30 minutes.

    And I know other people who have had similar experiences.

    And if they get so behind schedule that early then its likely that everyone will be kept waiting throughout the rest of the day.
    From actually talking to GPs - the problem occurs when someone has a complicated issue.

    So you can either have slots sized for 90% of the time when it is a quick in and out, or have slots sized for the one where someone walks in with skin cancer.

    If you have the later, you are seeing about 4 people a day, max.

    You can’t bring forward appointments, only delay them.

    It’s an interesting problem in queuing theory.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    HYUFD said:

    A quarter of Tory members want Boris to be on the ballot according to a ConHome survey and 35% would still vote for him to be leader if he was

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1553700545990377472?s=20&t=cJkGEXYSAvu-S_Uikr6u6A

    He may still be popular with the members, but couldn’t command his own Cabinet, which is fatal for a PM.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    DougSeal said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit
    After years of cancellations thanks to COVID, this summer sees the return of music festivals to the UK - but after leaving the EU, those involved with British events are facing challenges and calling for support.

    https://news.sky.com/story/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850

    Because Brexit meant no bands came to Glastonbury this year..... uh-huh....
    It won't be the big festivals that are affected by these extra frictions and costs. Glastonbury will be able to absorb them easily. It will be the smaller, grassroots events operating on a shoestring that will suffer. But cutting the British population off from Europe culturally is part of the Brexit project, very much a feature not a bug.
    Er, bollocks. I run a smaller, grassroots event on a shoestring. We had no EU acts before Brexit. It makes no difference to us. We did, for example, have a fantastic contingent of six bands come down from Southend, and everyone concerned will be delighted for that to happen in 2023.
    Festival with no EU acts unaffected by Brexit shocker.
    Does the EU produce pop music?
    I'm joking, but only just. The paucity of anything listenable coming out of mainland Europe over the past 60 years is baffling. I've just been looking through my iTunes library by most played - nothing from the EU in the top 100. A brief appearance by Stereolab and Jose Gonzalez in the next 100. Nothing in the 100 after that. Come on Europe, you can do better than this, surely?
    Not a fan of U2 then?

    But I did come across this little gem on wiki: "The European nation with the highest number of US number ones is the United Kingdom with 188. Sweden follows with 7."
    Wife and I both bought the same U2 album in the years before we met and we're both equally embarrassed at having done so. One of the reasons we're a good match.
    I used to think U2 were shite, then Achtung Baby came out, which I thought brilliant, but then they went back to being shite again. So I think they’re a shite band who managed one great album. It’s hard being a taste arbiter.
    Soft spot here for Joshua Tree I'm afraid. Probablythe album @LostPassword was embarrassed by.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,931
    edited July 2022
    Eabhal said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    Save the highstreet is particularly laughable. The Tories are completely out of ideas. And before anyone thinks "it's Labour's turn now" they are just as bad. Keir's guff about productivity the other day wasn't much better.

    What we need is a complete rebuilding of the political classes, none of them are fit for purpose.
    We need PR
    That wouldn't help, we'd have the same fools stitching things up after the election itself.
    Actually saving the High Street would be great. It's whether we actually get policies to do that that's the question.
    First question - why save the high street? What’s it for?

    I’m intending opening a business in the next couple of months and my very incomplete survey of retail in cities is that ‘the’ high streets of cities are very often on their arses (eg Edinburgh & Princes St, Aberdeen & Union St, Glasgow & Sauchiehall St), but that the villages within cities are doing a roaring trade. There seems to be a symbiosis between food, drink, coffee and niche traders that so far works, or so the somewhat shrivelled optimist in me hopes.
    Princes street has been killed off by the new (and superb) St James'. Leith Walk is going to end up better, once the trams are done. It's already endless coffee shops, pizzerias, bakeries, barbers, florists, bookshops etc etc.
    Careful. A lot of those shops may depend on discretionary spending that might easily be cut in a fuel-driven winter cost of living crisis. If your electricity bill has just doubled, do you really need flowers twice a week, coffee and pizzas?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,931

    nova said:

    nova said:

    Why does every Tory leadership contest require the same weak-ass policy ideas to be trotted out, like fines for missing GP appointments? I’ve been hearing proposals like this for at least a decade. The fact they never actually happen suggests maybe they’re not that good an idea?

    If they wanted a popular policy then the GP fine should be the other way around with people being compensated for having to wait with other sick people beyond their appointment time.
    That would get unpopular very quickly. You'd have a GP with a little timer and be expected to leave as soon as the ten minutes were up.
    Or maybe the GPs would start when they're supposed to.
    Do you genuinely think waiting at GPs is caused by them not bothering to call in their first appointment till it's well past the scheduled time?
    I've no idea but I've certainly had appointments at or before 9am and still had to wait 30 minutes.

    And I know other people who have had similar experiences.

    And if they get so behind schedule that early then its likely that everyone will be kept waiting throughout the rest of the day.
    My first GP never used appointments. You turned up and sat in a queue. I can't say the modern appointment system has noticeably cut waiting times.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    A quarter of Tory members want Boris to be on the ballot according to a ConHome survey and 35% would still vote for him to be leader if he was

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1553700545990377472?s=20&t=cJkGEXYSAvu-S_Uikr6u6A

    He may still be popular with the members, but couldn’t command his own Cabinet, which is fatal for a PM.

    Johnson could have realised that the country faced huge and mounting problems and at least started to address them.

    He could have fired Sunak and appointed a tax cutting chancellor. He himself could have brought in Redwood to advise or anybody else he fancied. He could have reshuffled any number of cabinet members and appointed rising stars like Badenoch. He could have adopted some of the fresh ideas that have surfaced since his departure.

    He wasn't interested. He isn't interested. He was and is obsessed with himself and his own power, leadership and legacy. The party needed to at least start to address some of the enormous problems building up in Britain or lose. Johnson either couldn't or wouldn't do that. He thought himself above it all. That's why he was fired.


This discussion has been closed.