Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
It was not an error of judgement, it was absolutely essential.
If it was an error of judgement why did both Nick Clegg and Tony Blair promise referendums?
They all promised it. None of them meant it. In every case it was to gain or keep votes.
That was the error of judgement. The smart judgement would have been to have held it sooner.
Yep, but I guess it is human nature to avoid it and hope it goes away.
You see the same mistake being made today with the IndyRef2 being denied.
The EU referendum was 41 years after the 1975 referendum, not just 7 years after. Even the second Quebec referendum was a full 15 years after the first in 1980
The 41 years one was lost by the Remainers. They might have won had they had it sooner.
And its already nine years by the time Sturgeon wants to hold the next vote.
🇷🇸The Kosovo army plans to attack the northern part of Serbia at midnight - Vučić.
“I think that we have never been in a more difficult situation than today. Why did I say this? The Pristina regime is trying, presenting itself as a victim, to use the moods in the world,”
There are reports of gunfire at multiple border crossings. Sirens going off all over Kosovo. If true, that's just bloody great. Good job we've a PM on the ball, and his FS with nowt else much on.
A few videos on Twitter of sirens going off in north Kosovo and pictures of blockaded roads.
Hopefully this will de escalate as quickly as it has escalated.
🇷🇸The Kosovo army plans to attack the northern part of Serbia at midnight - Vučić.
“I think that we have never been in a more difficult situation than today. Why did I say this? The Pristina regime is trying, presenting itself as a victim, to use the moods in the world,”
I have zero idea who is in the right at the moment. Either side could be hitting the other side to start this. But given the various relations, my WAG would be on Serbia trying something on Russia's behalf, to keep Europe occupied.
Or it might be Kosovo trying something because Serbia's friend Russia is otherwise occupied.
Does anyone have a primer for relations between Kosovo and Serbia over the last couple of decades after the Kosovo War? what are the states of the two militaries?
I read that thread last night and the gist seemed to be that it was her kids that would have okayed this. They're their father's wee boys and girl alright.
TBF the motivation for burying Ivana on a Trump golf course may not have been to save him tax, but it does look like he pick up the tax break.
🇷🇸The Kosovo army plans to attack the northern part of Serbia at midnight - Vučić.
“I think that we have never been in a more difficult situation than today. Why did I say this? The Pristina regime is trying, presenting itself as a victim, to use the moods in the world,”
There are reports of gunfire at multiple border crossings. Sirens going off all over Kosovo. If true, that's just bloody great. Good job we've a PM on the ball, and his FS with nowt else much on.
FFS. What's the story here? Serbia emboldened by Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
I absolutely do not get this. Cameron gave a referendum and the decision of the British people was to leave? How the hell can that possibly be a mistake? It is respecting the wishes of the majority of this country. Those who say that he should not have granted it wanted to defy that democratic wish for some greater good. And they still do. It is truly shameful.
You miss my point. Holding the referendum was the *correct* thing to do. He was forced into it by his party, because if he did not agree, he would have been out.
You might as well blame Blair and Brown for not holding a referendum earlier, than Cameron for holding it when it was too late.
How the Hell can you possibly not understand that?
I do not blame Cameron at all. He did the right thing. Brown and Blair didn't. Had they, they might well have won. The anger at the false promises and the lies by the Euro fanatics probably made the difference.
I believe that was what I said in my post? (The one that started with "he was forced to...")
Indeed. I was agreeing with the point you made. Sorry if it was not clear.
🇷🇸The Kosovo army plans to attack the northern part of Serbia at midnight - Vučić.
“I think that we have never been in a more difficult situation than today. Why did I say this? The Pristina regime is trying, presenting itself as a victim, to use the moods in the world,”
There are reports of gunfire at multiple border crossings. Sirens going off all over Kosovo. If true, that's just bloody great. Good job we've a PM on the ball, and his FS with nowt else much on.
Why, I mean why, bearing in mind the lessons that should be learnt from last time and what is happening in Ukraine now. What is wrong with people.
Germany deserve this. And their girls are hotter, TBH
Our resident Patriot speaks.
The first is undeniably true (and I am pretty neutral on this, I'd like England to win but my emotional investment is about as much as I put into Hamilton winning F1 or a Brit winning the Open). Germany are the superior team and should have won it already
The second is of course objective but they Teuts so seem to have a couple of stunners, whereas England have some pretty players, but not exceptional
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
I absolutely do not get this. Cameron gave a referendum and the decision of the British people was to leave? How the hell can that possibly be a mistake? It is respecting the wishes of the majority of this country. Those who say that he should not have granted it wanted to defy that democratic wish for some greater good. And they still do. It is truly shameful.
The wrong side won, and so they blame Cameron.
I was having a discussion about this a few days ago with some friends in Finland. The historical mistake on the part of Cameron was not in having a referendum, but in trying to fix the outcome by destroying the credibility of the 'leave' option - this was by preventing any civil service discussion about what leave would mean. So it was turning the whole question, which is of massive constitutional and historical significance, in to a superficial choice between stability and chaos. Ironically it actually made the 'vote leave' job easier, because they could promise anything. Had they been forced to actually come up with a plan to leave the EU, the campaign may not have worked so well for them.
Germany deserve this. And their girls are hotter, TBH
Our resident Patriot speaks.
The first is undeniably true (and I am pretty neutral on this, I'd like England to win but my emotional investment is about as much as I put into Hamilton winning F1 or a Brit winning the Open). Germany are the superior team and should have won it already
The second is of course objective but they Teuts so seem to have a couple of stunners, whereas England have some pretty players, but not exceptional
Keep hearing this. How do the Kosovans invade North Serbia? Are they going via Hungary? Mistranslation surely.
Yes it's garbled. He could mean the Kosovans are going to attack Serbians in North Kosovo, which makes total sense (other Serbs are saying the same) and that is right out of the Putin Playbook. It's why Vlad invaded Ukraine - to protect "ethnic Russians" in east Ukraine
🇷🇸The Kosovo army plans to attack the northern part of Serbia at midnight - Vučić.
“I think that we have never been in a more difficult situation than today. Why did I say this? The Pristina regime is trying, presenting itself as a victim, to use the moods in the world,”
I have zero idea who is in the right at the moment. Either side could be hitting the other side to start this. But given the various relations, my WAG would be on Serbia trying something on Russia's behalf, to keep Europe occupied.
Or it might be Kosovo trying something because Serbia's friend Russia is otherwise occupied.
Does anyone have a primer for relations between Kosovo and Serbia over the last couple of decades after the Kosovo War? what are the states of the two militaries?
Read that Kosovo is requiring Serbian visitors to carry mandatory ID from tomorrow. Not sure if it's true.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was right to tell his party to "stop banging on about Europe" but wrong to have the referendum on a simple In or Out basis. 'Out' should have been forced to define what that meant, if they had the result would have been different.
Perhaps. Remain wouldn't have been able to use their "you don't know what Leave means" argument.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
Brexit is almost a direct result of the Blair/Brown Government failing to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
Remember: Blair had twice promised a referendum on the EU Constitution. In early October 2007, the European Scrutiny Committee (which had a Labour majority at the time) had found that the treaty was "substantially equivalent" to the rejected constitution - and yet still they ignored the vote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7034052.stm
There was a substantial public majority in favour of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Just as there was for a referendum on the EU Constitution before it. The Liberal Democrats decided to play that by going for a full in/out referendum on the EU (sound familiar?) whilst Labour basically ignored it, and pretended it was both different and that it had got a smashing deal. David Cameron gave a "cast-iron" promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty but it was wholly ratified into EU law by December 2009, well before he took office, so he couldn't offer one when he took power in May 2010 - all he was able to do was to "not let matters rest there."
That's why the mood on the Tory backbenches was so febrile from almost the moment Cameron took office - we'd been done over and they were furious about it. There was a massive loss of trust between the UK and the EU. And the only way out was for the EU to substantially renegotiate with the UK on the basis that the Lisbon Treaty had not yet come into effect here, antebellum c.2007-2008, which they wholeheartedly refused to do.
Labour and the EU are far more responsible for Brexit than they'd care to admit, or ever will admit.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
I absolutely do not get this. Cameron gave a referendum and the decision of the British people was to leave? How the hell can that possibly be a mistake? It is respecting the wishes of the majority of this country. Those who say that he should not have granted it wanted to defy that democratic wish for some greater good. And they still do. It is truly shameful.
The Leave Campaign admitted they used lies and software profiling to ensure a win, so we left on false premises. How is that good for the country?
We joined "the EU" on false promises
"There will be no essential loss of sovereignty"
It is therefore fitting that we left the same way
There was no loss of sovereignty as Brexit proved.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was right to tell his party to "stop banging on about Europe" but wrong to have the referendum on a simple In or Out basis. 'Out' should have been forced to define what that meant, if they had the result would have been different.
But that would have meant negotiating the exit deal and new relationship before the vote - not a practical proposition.
🇷🇸The Kosovo army plans to attack the northern part of Serbia at midnight - Vučić.
“I think that we have never been in a more difficult situation than today. Why did I say this? The Pristina regime is trying, presenting itself as a victim, to use the moods in the world,”
I have zero idea who is in the right at the moment. Either side could be hitting the other side to start this. But given the various relations, my WAG would be on Serbia trying something on Russia's behalf, to keep Europe occupied.
Or it might be Kosovo trying something because Serbia's friend Russia is otherwise occupied.
Does anyone have a primer for relations between Kosovo and Serbia over the last couple of decades after the Kosovo War? what are the states of the two militaries?
Read that Kosovo is requiring Serbian visitors to carry mandatory ID from tomorrow. Not sure if it's true.
Their Serb ID won’t be accepted in Kosovo anymore. They need Kosovan ID.
Vucic is a dangerous twat. He wants to seize Kosovo back, and makes no secret of it. Great danger here. Multiple neighbours could be dragged in easily and quickly. Albania. Bosnia. Montenegro. It's bloody @leon recently in the vicinity once again! The man is a menace.
Francesco Comito @FrancescComito · 3m ❗️Statement by the Ministry of Defense of Serbia - "Due to the large amount of misinformation about the clash between the so-called "Kosovo police" and the Army of Serbia, we declare that the Army of Serbia has yet not crossed the administrative line at the moment."
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
I absolutely do not get this. Cameron gave a referendum and the decision of the British people was to leave? How the hell can that possibly be a mistake? It is respecting the wishes of the majority of this country. Those who say that he should not have granted it wanted to defy that democratic wish for some greater good. And they still do. It is truly shameful.
You miss my point. Holding the referendum was the *correct* thing to do. He was forced into it by his party, because if he did not agree, he would have been out.
You might as well blame Blair and Brown for not holding a referendum earlier, than Cameron for holding it when it was too late.
How the Hell can you possibly not understand that?
I do not blame Cameron at all. He did the right thing. Brown and Blair didn't. Had they, they might well have won. The anger at the false promises and the lies by the Euro fanatics probably made the difference.
Well that's an interesting interpretation of history.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
I absolutely do not get this. Cameron gave a referendum and the decision of the British people was to leave? How the hell can that possibly be a mistake? It is respecting the wishes of the majority of this country. Those who say that he should not have granted it wanted to defy that democratic wish for some greater good. And they still do. It is truly shameful.
You miss my point. Holding the referendum was the *correct* thing to do. He was forced into it by his party, because if he did not agree, he would have been out.
You might as well blame Blair and Brown for not holding a referendum earlier, than Cameron for holding it when it was too late.
How the Hell can you possibly not understand that?
I do not blame Cameron at all. He did the right thing. Brown and Blair didn't. Had they, they might well have won. The anger at the false promises and the lies by the Euro fanatics probably made the difference.
Well that's an interesting interpretation of history.
Where interesting means accurate.
I suspect you idea of "accurate" is a country mile away from mine!
Do you think if Blair hadn't lied and gone back on his pledge of holding a referendum then things would have played out the same?
Cameron's referendum was for the benefit of the Conservative Party. Cameron believed he would win and it would keep the ERG of his back for a generation.
The rest is history, but not the interpretation proposed by you and David. A pair of Conservative cheerleaders who can't see the wood from the trees.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
He was forced to by the party. If he had not, he would have been chucked and someone who would have granted a referendum would have taken over. They would have campaigned for leave, and leave would have won by a neven greater margin.
We needed a referendum. You could argue that it was held too late: if it had been held five or ten years earlier, we would still be in the EU. And perhaps the Euro...
So perhaps, just perhaps, things did not end as badly as they could?
I absolutely do not get this. Cameron gave a referendum and the decision of the British people was to leave? How the hell can that possibly be a mistake? It is respecting the wishes of the majority of this country. Those who say that he should not have granted it wanted to defy that democratic wish for some greater good. And they still do. It is truly shameful.
The wrong side won, and so they blame Cameron.
I was having a discussion about this a few days ago with some friends in Finland. The historical mistake on the part of Cameron was not in having a referendum, but in trying to fix the outcome by destroying the credibility of the 'leave' option - this was by preventing any civil service discussion about what leave would mean. So it was turning the whole question, which is of massive constitutional and historical significance, in to a superficial choice between stability and chaos. Ironically it actually made the 'vote leave' job easier, because they could promise anything. Had they been forced to actually come up with a plan to leave the EU, the campaign may not have worked so well for them.
I will write a thread header on this one-day but I don't think in any democracy you can 'force' the populace via legal or political chicanery beyond the modal point that they are willing to accept and expect it to stick.
The Lisbon Treaty went too far for the UK, and was never going to stick - even with the threat of an economic gun held to our heads - and full-fat Brexit is obviously too loose, for similar reasons.
The sweet-spot has been, is, and probably will be, a common-market relationship with the EU, with fair movement of people, and close defence and security co-operation, but without any serious participation in the federalist legal, social and political project that the EU pursues.
Insightful comments on Dugin, who is dismissed as a pseudo intellectual and basically a tool.
Facepalm. You mean Dugin, the guy who seemed so earnest and serious when he was citing Guy Debord, might be an asset of *gasps and knocks the desk a few times* the FSB? And the theory of the "Fourth Position" is ... pseudo?
Next people will be saying the same thing about the late "Liberal Democrat" Vladimir Zhirinovsky.
A good clue in respect of both of them is the notion that Russia should annex Finland.
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
It was not an error of judgement, it was absolutely essential.
If it was an error of judgement why did both Nick Clegg and Tony Blair promise referendums?
They all promised it. None of them meant it. In every case it was to gain or keep votes.
That was the error of judgement. The smart judgement would have been to have held it sooner.
Yep, but I guess it is human nature to avoid it and hope it goes away.
You see the same mistake being made today with the IndyRef2 being denied.
The EU referendum was 41 years after the 1975 referendum, not just 7 years after. Even the second Quebec referendum was a full 15 years after the first in 1980
The 41 years one was lost by the Remainers. They might have won had they had it sooner.
And its already nine years by the time Sturgeon wants to hold the next vote.
The second Quebec referendum wasn't lost.
Allow Sturgeon another vote now and even if No narrowly wins it the SNP will push for a third referendum within a decade and more until they get the result they want
Just a view: either Cameron or Miliband would be better than Truss or Sunak.
The Conservative Party have not served us well since 2015. Their EU obsession has utterly harmed the country.
Cameron was the one who gave them the referendum in the first place. A monumental error of judgement and damage to this country purely to try to resolve internal Tory party discipline.
It was not an error of judgement, it was absolutely essential.
If it was an error of judgement why did both Nick Clegg and Tony Blair promise referendums?
They all promised it. None of them meant it. In every case it was to gain or keep votes.
That was the error of judgement. The smart judgement would have been to have held it sooner.
Yep, but I guess it is human nature to avoid it and hope it goes away.
You see the same mistake being made today with the IndyRef2 being denied.
The EU referendum was 41 years after the 1975 referendum, not just 7 years after. Even the second Quebec referendum was a full 15 years after the first in 1980
The 41 years one was lost by the Remainers. They might have won had they had it sooner.
And its already nine years by the time Sturgeon wants to hold the next vote.
The second Quebec referendum wasn't lost.
Allow Sturgeon another vote now and even if No narrowly wins it the SNP will push for a third referendum within a decade and more until they get the result they want
They won't. I've explained why on several occasions.
I'd argue we reacted very well to the initial Salisbury event: we gathered evidence, saw where it led, and convinced loads of countries to put sanctions on Russia. You could argue those sanctions could (and should) have been stronger, but there are allegations that Russia has been topping people around the world in similar manners: and we were the only major country to complain about it. And we had to take the rest of the civilised world with us.
It's a shame that Corbyn and many Labour figures at the time were so (ahem) hesitant to apportion blame.
Who were the many? And "hesitant" doesn't begin to explain Corbyn's Soviet- loving treason.
To be fair, Corbyn said he wanted to examine the evidence before commenting. He was given a briefing by MI5, said he was convinced, and supported sanctions against Russia in retaliation. One can argue that the case was obvious and he shouldn't have needed convincing, but there's something to be said for a judicious approach, as history is littered with "obvious" cases which proved to be otherwise. Politically it's dangerous, though, as these days you're expected to have an instant view on anything, and caution is taken as hostility (or even, as Mex would have it, treason).
Corbyn's sympathetic hearing of Russia was in no small part why he unravelled in GE2019.
Were Corbyn LOTO at present he would very much struggle to condemn Putin in Ukraine.
Again, you're postulating a Corbyn that fits your image, and ignoring what he actually said: "Russia’s shocking invasion of Ukraine is causing fear, misery, and death...Russia must withdraw its troops and return to diplomacy." How do you convert that into "struggle to condemn"? He does favour a settlement over a war, but that's a view which has an honourable tradition going back to Churchill ("jaw-jaw").
Keep hearing this. How do the Kosovans invade North Serbia? Are they going via Hungary? Mistranslation surely.
Yes it's garbled. He could mean the Kosovans are going to attack Serbians in North Kosovo, which makes total sense (other Serbs are saying the same) and that is right out of the Putin Playbook. It's why Vlad invaded Ukraine - to protect "ethnic Russians" in east Ukraine
In Serbian eyes Kosovo will be South Serbia and what we'd call Serbia is North Serbia.
I was starting to feel sorry for Sunak until he came out with ludicrous nonsense about tax cuts in seven years, when we all know a week is a long time in politics.
The UK Treasury knows that no tax cuts before the next election will create a huge schism in the tory ranks and with tory voters and usher in a labour government much more friendly to their Brownite groupthink. They can then safely wave goodbye to those tax cuts for ever.
Either Sunak know he is being played by a UK treasury desperate to see off this conservative government and is OK with it, or he really is the dumbest candidate who ever ran for PM.
Comments
And its already nine years by the time Sturgeon wants to hold the next vote.
Hopefully this will de escalate as quickly as it has escalated.
https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1553800047422316545
Or it might be Kosovo trying something because Serbia's friend Russia is otherwise occupied.
Does anyone have a primer for relations between Kosovo and Serbia over the last couple of decades after the Kosovo War? what are the states of the two militaries?
A lot of Trump memes combined in one story.
Novak Djokovic has had a rough few years.
The second is of course objective but they Teuts so seem to have a couple of stunners, whereas England have some pretty players, but not exceptional
Here ends the broadcast by Late Stage Feminism FM
Remember: Blair had twice promised a referendum on the EU Constitution. In early October 2007, the European Scrutiny Committee (which had a Labour majority at the time) had found that the treaty was "substantially equivalent" to the rejected constitution - and yet still they ignored the vote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7034052.stm
There was a substantial public majority in favour of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Just as there was for a referendum on the EU Constitution before it. The Liberal Democrats decided to play that by going for a full in/out referendum on the EU (sound familiar?) whilst Labour basically ignored it, and pretended it was both different and that it had got a smashing deal. David Cameron gave a "cast-iron" promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty but it was wholly ratified into EU law by December 2009, well before he took office, so he couldn't offer one when he took power in May 2010 - all he was able to do was to "not let matters rest there."
That's why the mood on the Tory backbenches was so febrile from almost the moment Cameron took office - we'd been done over and they were furious about it. There was a massive loss of trust between the UK and the EU. And the only way out was for the EU to substantially renegotiate with the UK on the basis that the Lisbon Treaty had not yet come into effect here, antebellum c.2007-2008, which they wholeheartedly refused to do.
Labour and the EU are far more responsible for Brexit than they'd care to admit, or ever will admit.
But this thread has lost its sovereignty
https://twitter.com/jehonahulaj/status/1553662342860345344?s=21&t=MAu52WMgs7STblU_-XGioA
He wants to seize Kosovo back, and makes no secret of it. Great danger here.
Multiple neighbours could be dragged in easily and quickly.
Albania. Bosnia. Montenegro.
It's bloody @leon recently in the vicinity once again!
The man is a menace.
New Thread
"that could be more reassuring"
Francesco Comito
@FrancescComito
· 3m
❗️Statement by the Ministry of Defense of Serbia - "Due to the large amount of misinformation about the clash between the so-called "Kosovo police" and the Army of Serbia, we declare that the Army of Serbia has yet not crossed the administrative line at the moment."
The rest is history, but not the interpretation proposed by you and David. A pair of Conservative cheerleaders who can't see the wood from the trees.
The Lisbon Treaty went too far for the UK, and was never going to stick - even with the threat of an economic gun held to our heads - and full-fat Brexit is obviously too loose, for similar reasons.
The sweet-spot has been, is, and probably will be, a common-market relationship with the EU, with fair movement of people, and close defence and security co-operation, but without any serious participation in the federalist legal, social and political project that the EU pursues.
Next people will be saying the same thing about the late "Liberal Democrat" Vladimir Zhirinovsky.
A good clue in respect of both of them is the notion that Russia should annex Finland.
Allow Sturgeon another vote now and even if No narrowly wins it the SNP will push for a third referendum within a decade and more until they get the result they want
https://jeremycorbyn.org.uk/crisis-in-ukraine/
The UK Treasury knows that no tax cuts before the next election will create a huge schism in the tory ranks and with tory voters and usher in a labour government much more friendly to their Brownite groupthink. They can then safely wave goodbye to those tax cuts for ever.
Either Sunak know he is being played by a UK treasury desperate to see off this conservative government and is OK with it, or he really is the dumbest candidate who ever ran for PM.