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Is the British public the new Édith Piaf? – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said: "The US has a great many toll roads. It also has "FastTrak" lanes on many freeways which you can pay to access. Basically, you have the choice between paying $5 for FastTrak and getting home 20 minutes earlier, or just lumping it and saving the money."

    There is one just a few blocks east from where I live, and I sometimes walk up to the overpass to observe the traffic. There are five lanes in each direction, two of the five having variable congestion pricing. (With large signs telling drivers the current price.) Charges are assessed with electronic tags and, for those who don't have them,
    photos of license plates.

    When I have watched it, always in non-peak times so far, the fast track lanes are always almost empty, though the cars and the trucks in them do move faster. They can be expensive, more than a dollar a mile.

    I haven't decided whether those lanes are a good idea, net -- but then I haven't even looked for studies on the question. The complexity does bother me.

    (Many details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_405_(Washington) )

    To be fair, it should pretty much always be empty during off peak times!

    Now... it is worth noting that highway throughput drops when demand is highest. By having two lanes less crowded and flowing at 60mph, you might well actually increase total throughput of the road, while raising revenue, and allowing people to self select whether they want to pay and get their quicker or not.

    $1/mile for 10 miles that saves you 20 minutes is going to be worth it for a substantial minority of people. If it doesn't add significant delays to other road users, then it's win-win: more money raised and people who want get their quicker can do so.
    $20 a day, call it $4,000 a year, in extra commuting costs. You may not think that’s a lot of money… Corbyn might call it the Zil Lane.

    And you know that in the UK, it would be one of three or four *existing* lanes used for the fast track, rather than any expansion of capacity for the scheme. Remember Clarkson and his tirade against Prescott’s M4 bus lane two decades ago?
    The point is that it's OPTIONAL. You can sit in traffic. Or you can pay to avoid it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Endillion said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    So which one these should Starmer fear? I’m genuinely trying to see the challenge, but they are no Cameron, Major or Johnson. Even May has a gravitas neither of these possess.

    Probably Liz
    In the sense she would leave an economic wasteland, perhaps.
    More likely, she will change her views and policies again to suit new circumstances.
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    On the economy it’s probably a good thing, but it does mean people don’t really know what they would be getting and a continuation of governmenr by soundbite and u-turn with nothing seen through properly.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Rishi gets the first clap.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Leon said:

    Can I just point out the overt kinkery evidenced by Liz Truss’s dress and necklace?

    She is totally Fetlife; probably domme

    omg yes, almost finlandic.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    Rishi gets the first clap.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    MattW said:

    Isn't that a Red Herring from Soph?

    "Would you deploy the RN to the Black Sea to protect grain shipments".

    Is that not prevented by the exclusion of warships from the Black Sea by Turkey under the Montreux Convention at the current time of tension?

    There have been a variety of suggestions floated, diplomatically, about escorting grain shipments. All would require Turkish cooperation in terms of labelling it a humanitarian effort etc.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,651

    Sunak is winning just through greater airtime and exposure so far, i would say. Truss seems less combative than I would expect at dealing with all the domination efforts so far.


    A draw at present, bit that is good for Truss.

    I like the way they went straight from encouraging international investment, to hostility to Chinese investment. Hostility to what is shortly to be the world's biggest economy, and a major overseas investor, without a blush.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Was that the first round of applause from the audience for Sunak's "this is who I am" speech?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663

    Good slap down of the BBC for focussing on trivia

    Just quoting the campaigns, a touch hypocritical to complain.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Roundhay school is no sink comp!
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883

    ydoethur said:

    I’ve turned it off. I wonder where I can emigrate to.

    Scotland?
    I can highly recommend it.
    Liz Truss went to primary school in Scotland; will that matter?
    For 5 minutes. Then she lived in Leeds and was so horrified by the kids in her high school that she joined the LibDems
    Going to High School in Leeds made me a Link Dem voter...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Sunak said he backed removing Boris on principle
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,651
    Leon said:

    Sunak is quite boring. Shut up about the fucking pharmacy

    I thought you liked drugs...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Rishi's heartwarming middle class to richer tale
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    BBC looking ridiculous with all this class warfare fashion bollocks. Ask them about energy security this winter and beyond you morons! And blowing the Ukraine question with a nonsense about whether to send the Royal Navy into the Black Sea.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022

    Sunak had to shake things up, but seems to have calmed down now. Truss doing a bit better now, but from the Labour side I really don't think either of them are very scary.

    Agreed, however I'd caveat that by saying Truss IS what little old blue rinse ladies who wish Maggie was still here like. As was May, until she kicked them in the teeth over care.
    She will energise the base, however i dont see her inspiring the electorate at large
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Truss keeps talking about her experience growing up DURING A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT

    No no, the LEA was Labour. So she joined the LibDems to campaign for improvements, though now lies about actually joining the Tories because it definitely wasn't the Tory government's fault.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    Lord, Truss is awful.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Pulpstar said:

    Rishi's heartwarming middle class to richer tale

    Can relate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Truss is a switch
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Has Liz mentioned that she delivered trade deals?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    Pulpstar said:

    Rishi's heartwarming middle class to richer tale

    If only Rishis grandad was standing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    edited July 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Truss improving slightly. Just very slightly.

    Yes, because it is no longer all about economics where Rishi just runs rings around her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    In CH4 hit piece they said they were 25k (in todays money) when he went, which is still a hell of a out of money, but it appears his folks sacrificed a lot to stretch themselves to afford it.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883
    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Sunak is quite boring. Shut up about the fucking pharmacy

    Don't be racist.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Leon said:

    Can I just point out the overt kinkery evidenced by Liz Truss’s dress and necklace?

    She is totally Fetlife; probably domme

    I wonder what the Venn diagram of PBers and fetlife users would be...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Leon said:

    Sunak is quite boring. Shut up about the fucking pharmacy

    But the Blessed Margaret always talked about how she was a chemist.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    One of these two is going to be staring down Putin by the autumn.

    Eek.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Jonathan said:

    Good slap down of the BBC for focussing on trivia

    Just quoting the campaigns, a touch hypocritical to complain.
    If the media didn't give the trivia oxygen, the campaigns would learn soon enough that there's no point indulging in it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    He's simply twice as smart as her, no? (Not that that is necessarily a decisive factor with the relevant electorate.)

    I don't think that's true. She rose to become economic director of Cable & Wireless and became deputy director of Reform and authored several reports on education reform.

    She's not an idiot. The issue is that she's impulsive and a bit off the wall / bonkers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Sunak is quite boring. Shut up about the fucking pharmacy

    I thought you liked drugs...
    ...not from a pharmacy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,651

    Roundhay school is no sink comp!

    Apart from anything else, one of their alumni went to Oxford to do PPE and most likely become PM.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Que?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Ok wait. Truss struggling

    You can see why the membership were desperate for Kemi Badenoch.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Rishi gets a 2nd clap.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Both would make decent prime ministers, neither is inspiring
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,898

    Good slap down of the BBC for focussing on trivia

    The point is these attacks, including the ones about trivia, are being made by the campaign teams. Liz Truss was invited to disown the attack on Rishi's clothes bill, and did not do so. She wants her campaign team to throw as much mud as possible while her own hands stay clean. Doubtless the same for Rishi.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Rishi a bit better in the last few minutes - got a couple of rounds of applause.
  • Conservatives in Stoke keep clapping Rishi occasionally......
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    Foxy said:

    Sunak is winning just through greater airtime and exposure so far, i would say. Truss seems less combative than I would expect at dealing with all the domination efforts so far.


    A draw at present, bit that is good for Truss.

    I like the way they went straight from encouraging international investment, to hostility to Chinese investment. Hostility to what is shortly to be the world's biggest economy, and a major overseas investor, without a blush.
    Absolutely. We should be looking to enhance our links. With China

    What about purchasing Uyghurs from China? This would play to our traditional skills in the slave trade.

    In addition to working for free (reducing the spiralling costs of employment), we could utilise them in medical research, speeding up the development of Biotech Britain.

    It would make the Chinese happy and everything. Win, win & win.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    In CH4 hit piece they said they were 25k (in todays money) when he went, which is still a hell of a out of money, but it appears his folks sacrificed a lot to stretch themselves to afford it.
    Asian parents making sacrifices so their kids have the best education?

    Absolutely unheard of.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Truss says Boris' mistakes were not enough to remove him as PM
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    ydoethur said:

    The only consistent thing about this thread is how wildly everyone disagrees on how any given candidate is doing at any given moment.

    And it's not as though you're even plugging your favourites.

    That tells me whatever else is happening it's not being well run or a particularly profitable exercise.

    My favourite has been Rishi for 2 years. But he will lose badly. Despite as I type this getting the 2nd round of applause (the *only* applause). And I know that Truss will be the catastrofuck that destroys the Tory party for another political generation.

    I think the UK will be seriously buggered if she wins, but she will win. So what fun we are having!!!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    He's simply twice as smart as her, no? (Not that that is necessarily a decisive factor with the relevant electorate.)

    Possibly, but being extra smart isn't necessarily an advantage in politics as you say.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    kinabalu said:

    CatMan said:

    Think Sunak is interrupting so much to try and show himself as "Stronger" than Truss

    It's risk reward. The reward is she could crumble. The risk is he looks a bully. Worth taking because he knows he's behind.
    Yep, he failed to rattle her despite decent performances in the other debates, he needs her to visibly trip up.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    Leon said:

    Both would make decent prime ministers, neither is inspiring

    Nice one, satire lives.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Oh dear Truss thinks Johnson should have stayed in his job .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    Not watching, anything on cost of living or crime (especially violent crime)....or is it just nonsense about costs of nice suits and who went to the better school?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IanB2 said:

    Endillion said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    So which one these should Starmer fear? I’m genuinely trying to see the challenge, but they are no Cameron, Major or Johnson. Even May has a gravitas neither of these possess.

    Probably Liz
    In the sense she would leave an economic wasteland, perhaps.
    More likely, she will change her views and policies again to suit new circumstances.
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    On the economy it’s probably a good thing, but it does mean people don’t really know what they would be getting and a continuation of governmenr by soundbite and u-turn with nothing seen through properly.
    Tory members get a platform that can win the next election, and everyone else doesn't have a vote so they can't have been misled.

    (I don't really disagree, btw.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    edited July 2022

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
    The necklace suggests sub; the dress suggests domme; therefore I say: switch
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,898

    Leon said:

    Sunak is quite boring. Shut up about the fucking pharmacy

    But the Blessed Margaret always talked about how she was a chemist.
    And about her father's grocers shop.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Both were very disappointing on the environment. Really poor.

    The answer is more recycling apparently.

    The 1980s rang and want their environmental policies back.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    MikeL said:

    Rishi gets the first clap.

    I’d put money on Liz having that T-shirt already
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Unpopular said:

    ydoethur said:

    I’ve turned it off. I wonder where I can emigrate to.

    Scotland?
    I can highly recommend it.
    Liz Truss went to primary school in Scotland; will that matter?
    For 5 minutes. Then she lived in Leeds and was so horrified by the kids in her high school that she joined the LibDems
    Going to High School in Leeds made me a Link Dem voter...
    Lib Dems are now the most Southern, most ABC1 party of all. :smile:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Has Liz mentioned that she delivered trade deals?

    Thankfully for her the entire party have been selling her success there for several years, so she probably doesn't even need to!
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
    Seems I'm more sheltered than I thought. If only I'd gone to Roundhay!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    nico679 said:

    Oh dear Truss thinks Johnson should have stayed in his job .

    Are we sure she isn't still a Lib Dem?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited July 2022

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    I thought Rishi got a scholarship.

    Though having said that, mum and dad being a Community Pharmacist and a Doctor is a classic route to security and wealth.

    My Uni had a lot of pharmacists, and the NHS / Community choice was portrayed as between interesting and rich.
  • A spokesman for Liz Truss claims that Rishi Sunak is not fit for office:

    'Rishi Sunak has tonight proven he is not fit for office

    'His aggressive mansplaining and shouty private school behaviour is desperate, unbecoming and is a gift to Labour'
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Leon said:

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
    The necklace suggests sub; the dress suggests domme; therefore I say: switch
    Huh. I interpreted the necklace the other way round...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Truss has gone off the boil in the last few minutes whilst Rishi has calmed down a bit.

    He has to stop these long lists though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Leon said:

    Both would make decent prime ministers, neither is inspiring

    People need some inspiration sometimes, but we can do without it for a bit if - and it is a big if - we get the decent part for awhile.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,591

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Shares in France’s Eutelsat slump after it confirms OneWeb merger talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/france-eutelsat-uk-satellite-firm-oneweb-elon-musk-starlink

    Oh and the British government will have all sorts of handy vetos over the merged company.

    Rishi has quite possibly played an absolute blinder.

    It does rather look like the LEO constellations data provision market will be

    1) Starlink
    2) OneWeb - being actually operational and everything. Being the alternative to Starlink, in OneWebs chosen markets is probably quite a good business plan.
    3) Kuiper - if Jeff can ever get his rockets up.
    Kuiper will happen. Even *If* New Glenn never gets to orbit, Kuiper will launch, as Kuiper is not dependent on NG. It's Kuiper and Oneweb's USP...

    Also note sex-pest Musk's post that Starlink depends on the unlaunched Starship... (*)

    (*) I don't believe that for one minute. he was just sh*tting on the employees he could not sh*g.
    It may happen - the problem is persistent non-delivery. It is hard to think that the slow pace at Blue Origin may be matched by the satellites for Kuiper taking ages.

    Remember when Surrey Satellites saved Galileo’s bacon? Just…

    Starlink V2 is about getting an unassailable lead - even if Bezos is buying all the non Starship launch capacity on the planet, he can’t compete. Can’t solve that problem with money - he’d need throw weight. Which won’t be available for any price. Unless he launches on Starship
    As ever, you are a little too pro-Musk and a little too anti- his rivals. If you had not noticed, SS has not launched, let alone reached orbit. They're nearly as late as NG. And Raptor 2 isn't looking that good.
    Starlink is in operation now. Thousands of satellites. Hundreds of thousands of actual users etc. approval to operate in many countries. Uplink stations in many countries. More satellites being launched every week. Literally.

    OneWeb is now beginning to come into service. Satellites in orbit, ground stations up and running, approval granted by various countries.

    Kuiper - no satellites. No ground stations. No users. No approvals.

    Currently just OneWeb and Starlink are in the game.

    Not sure what you means about Raptor 2 - plenty of videos from the fence at McGregor of multi hundred second runs, thrust vectoring and everything…
    There are plenty of videos of BE-4 as well, with the same criteria. And note they are on Raptor *2* because Raptor *1* did not cut the mustard. And they have blown three Raptor 2's in the last few months.

    Now, this might mean they're pushing the limits. Or it could be a sign the program is in trouble. But bear in mind NG has seven BE-4 engines on its first stage. Super Heavy has 33 (*). As the N1 shows, even with protection, the failure of one engine can doom the rocket.

    SpaceX has a great record in such things. But they are really pushing the limits of the technology, and they may be in for a world of pain. And tech is filled with companies that were leaders who vanished. I doubt that will happen with SpaceX, but don't swallow the Musk Kool-Aid.

    (*) According to Wiki; it regularly changes.
    The main problem with the N1 was lack of funding - they were trying for all up testing, but lacked the funds to lose the first 1/2 dozen boosters. Some of their stuff was mad even by SpaceX throw-it-at-the-sky standards - explosively opened valves, which couldn’t be reset. So completely untested engines off the production line, first flight was first fire…

    The comments from those who’ve worked at SpaceX and were involved with them (as both competitors and helpers) all agree on one thing - it takes years to build an organisation that can launch orbital rockets. And it isn’t something you can create without launching to orbit. Blue Origin is years behind - they haven’t finalised the design of New Glenn to the point of building tooling - they’ve built some test tanks. They really need the experience that some of the small launcher companies have already got - flying rockets. There’s no substitute.
    From memory (there's an online book about it written by an US/?Indian? chap), the N1 was meant to have a dozen+ launches before it successfully got to orbit. The political will - and hence financing - ran out.

    As I keep on saying, you seem too down on Blue Origin, and far too *up* on Musk's ventures.

    I want both to succeed. In fact, it's vital they both do.

    Edit: 'Challenge to Apollo' by Asif A. Siddiqi. Available for free online, and a great resource.

    Part 1:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt1.pdf
    Part 2:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt2.pdf
    If I may, here's a section on what it's like when an Apollo or SuperHeavy-sized rocket goes boom near the pad:

    "Only in the trench did I understand the sense of the expression "your heart in your mouth." Something quite improbable was being created all around--the steppe was trembling like a vibration test thundering, rumbling, whistling, gnashing-- mixed together in some terrible, seemingly unending cacophony. The trench proved to be so shallow and unreliable that one wanted to burrow into the sand so as not to hear this nightmare.., the thick wave from the explosion passed over us, sweeping away and leveling everything. Behind it came hot metal raining down from above. Pieces of the rocket were thrown ten kilometers away, and large windows were shattered in structures
    40 kilometers away. ,_ 400 kilogram spherical tank landed on the roof o[ the installation and testing wing. seven kilometers from the launch pad.

    By some estimates, the strength of the explosion was close to 250 tons of TNT--not a nuclear explosion, but certainly the most powerful explosion ever in the history of rocketry. The booster had lifted off to a height of 200 meters before falling over and exploding on the launch pad itself, about twenty-three seconds after launch. The emergency rescue system fired in the nick of time, at T+ 14.5 seconds, to shoot the descent apparatus of the payload two kilometers from the pad, thus saving it from destruction. Remarkably, no doubt because of the
    stringent safety precautions, there were no fatalities or injuries, although the physical devastation was phenomenal. When the first teams arrived near the pad in the early-morning hours of July 4, there was only carnage left behind:
    We arrived at the fueling station and were horrified--the windows and doors were smashed out, the iron entrance gate was askew, the equipment was scattered about with the light o[ dawn and was turned to stone--the steppe was literally strewn withdead animals and birds. Where so many o[ them came [rom and how they appeared in
    such quantities at the station I still do not understand.'

    And they reckon that only a small fraction of the fuel on the rocket went boom.
    Stand back from the window, when the rocket goes boom.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wX5GD1N7bEw
    The Soviet lack of understanding of basic safety was a feature of their rocket programs

    If you don’t mind watching humans burning to death - https://youtu.be/_ybnj4jcnwg
    The little I read of either space programme, but particularly the Soviet one, the more I'm amazed anyone made it up there and back in their death traps.
    Very true.

    But not just in Russia: Brazil had a really nasty one in 2003, killing 19 people. This is one thing I fear with SpaceX's SH/SS development: failing frequently is fine until it is not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLS-1_V03
    The trick is not having people close to where you are playing with propellants.

    That and flight termination systems make rocketry safe. A kiloton or 2 on the horizon is just a loud bang.

    The Brazilian thing was stupid negligence of the most basic sort.
    Also see the event where Virgin Galactic's friends killed three engineers in an explosion.

    Or the event this year where another 'emergent' rocket company had an event with people nearby, fortunately without casualties. Can't find a link immediately, but they got *lots* of criticism...
    I’ll refrain from commenting too much on the Virgin thing. He likes to sue.

    The engineers were

    1) pumping around multiple tons of a known monopropellant. AKA an explosive.
    2) they were unaware of the pressure/temperature issues documented in the literature about said propellant.
    3) they had no temperature measurement or control on the propellant tanks
    4) they had done no worst case (or any case) study to work out a safe zone.
    5) they did their tests with people nearby. For no requirement or reason.
    6) it was a blazing hot day in the desert, and they had no idea what that was doing to their test rig.

    EDIT - do you mean those idiots who were running a giant blow torch they called a rocket motor, while trying to kill themselves? Complete with hiding behind a small hummock of earth about 6 feet from their “test”?

    I’ll stop there…
    Indeed. But the fact they were in that position was down to the company. Scaled, I think.

    Don't blame them for their actions; blame the company that put them in that position.
    At any time anyone could have criticised what they were doing. “We need to clear the test area”. “We need a $10 temperature sensor on the tank”.

    No one mandated that test was run that way - just no one enforced any kind of discipline.
    What exactly is your point? They were employees of a company, doing tests for the company. If there is *any* chance of a serious life-threatening event occurring, the company needs to ensure that the tests are as safe as possible, given the knowledge.

    Do you blame Chernobyl on the engineers in the control room, or on the system that led them to make those mistakes?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663

    A spokesman for Liz Truss claims that Rishi Sunak is not fit for office:

    'Rishi Sunak has tonight proven he is not fit for office

    'His aggressive mansplaining and shouty private school behaviour is desperate, unbecoming and is a gift to Labour'

    Reads PB
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    Sunak is quite boring. Shut up about the fucking pharmacy

    It's almost as dreary as Truss's trade deals narrative.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883
    MattW said:

    Unpopular said:

    ydoethur said:

    I’ve turned it off. I wonder where I can emigrate to.

    Scotland?
    I can highly recommend it.
    Liz Truss went to primary school in Scotland; will that matter?
    For 5 minutes. Then she lived in Leeds and was so horrified by the kids in her high school that she joined the LibDems
    Going to High School in Leeds made me a Link Dem voter...
    Lib Dems are now the most Southern, most ABC1 party of all. :smile:
    I'm nothing if not aspirational
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Only 9 minutes left of the final debate. Can we have extra time and penalties please?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Truss is losing it now. Wrong-footed by the support for Johnson.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    MattW said:

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    I thought Rishi got a scholarship.
    No Ch4 asked Sunak and he said no. There is an interview with his parents who said it was a big step up from the fees they paid for his education previously, but they sacrificed a huge amount to stretch to the fees as they wanted to the best for him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    Truss says Boris' mistakes were not enough to remove him as PM

    She will regret that, later
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,014

    Pulpstar said:

    Rishi's heartwarming middle class to richer tale

    Can relate.
    You messed up the "marry a billionaire" bit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    nico679 said:

    Oh dear Truss thinks Johnson should have stayed in his job .

    Plays well with the former loyalists (I say former, as if someone is loyal to Boris now at the expense of a new leader they are now rebels), and those who don't actually agree he should have stayed, but feel guilty about having thought he should go?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Leon said:

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
    The necklace suggests sub; the dress suggests domme; therefore I say: switch
    No way. She has a selection of whips.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    A spokesman for Liz Truss claims that Rishi Sunak is not fit for office:

    'Rishi Sunak has tonight proven he is not fit for office

    'His aggressive mansplaining and shouty private school behaviour is desperate, unbecoming and is a gift to Labour'

    Liz Truss wanted Johnson to stay on . That should be enough to disqualify her.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    He's simply twice as smart as her, no? (Not that that is necessarily a decisive factor with the relevant electorate.)

    Depends if she knows she's talking incoherent nonsense.

    If she doesn't I'd agree she isn't the brightest.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Not watching, anything on cost of living or crime (especially violent crime)....or is it just nonsense about costs of nice suits and who went to the better school?

    The first section was on cost of living. Truss said she'd offer immediate "help", Sunak didn't.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Truss says she doesn’t think Johnson deserved to be kicked out by colleagues. “He made mistakes but I didn’t think the mistakes he made were sufficient that the Conservative Party should have rejected him”

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1551670988949127170
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    A spokesman for Liz Truss claims that Rishi Sunak is not fit for office:

    'Rishi Sunak has tonight proven he is not fit for office

    'His aggressive mansplaining and shouty private school behaviour is desperate, unbecoming and is a gift to Labour'

    Is that a real quote? Because that is very snowflakey.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 309

    Leon said:

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
    The necklace suggests sub; the dress suggests domme; therefore I say: switch
    No way. She has a selection of whips.
    If you believe some of the rumours in Westminster at the moment, she's very much a dom.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Eabhal said:

    A spokesman for Liz Truss claims that Rishi Sunak is not fit for office:

    'Rishi Sunak has tonight proven he is not fit for office

    'His aggressive mansplaining and shouty private school behaviour is desperate, unbecoming and is a gift to Labour'

    Reads PB
    Posts on PB maybe?
  • Driver said:

    Not watching, anything on cost of living or crime (especially violent crime)....or is it just nonsense about costs of nice suits and who went to the better school?

    The first section was on cost of living. Truss said she'd offer immediate "help", Sunak didn't.
    Yes what sort of help, I’m sure if it was a Labour candidate you’d be saying no detail
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MattW said:

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    I thought Rishi got a scholarship.

    Though having said that, mum and dad being a Community Pharmacist and a Doctor is a classic route to security and wealth.

    My Uni had a lot of pharmacists, and the NHS / Community choice was portrayed as between interesting and rich.
    He was in a house, proper scholarship boys is in College...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Sunak had to shake things up, but seems to have calmed down now. Truss doing a bit better now, but from the Labour side I really don't think either of them are very scary.

    The prospect of Liz as PM scares me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,651

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    In CH4 hit piece they said they were 25k (in todays money) when he went, which is still a hell of a out of money, but it appears his folks sacrificed a lot to stretch themselves to afford it.
    From the Winchester College Website for 22-23 year:

    The fee for Boarding pupils will be £45,936 per annum (£15,312 per term).
    The fee for Day pupils will be £33,990 per annum (£11,330 per term).

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    Rishi FPN Sunak leading on trust and offering a fresh start.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Truss is a switch

    Should I Google that?
    Yes, it is someone switches between being a dom and a sub.
    The necklace suggests sub; the dress suggests domme; therefore I say: switch
    Huh. I interpreted the necklace the other way round...
    The ring suggests a collar. If it had been a key hanging from it...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Truss absolutely bang on - this campaign has not been particularly nasty, even by internal party standards - these two (and those already eliminated) just disagree fundamentally on our way forward. Almost all the real arguments have been heavily focused on the issues, not trivia about clothes etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    Pulpstar said:

    Rishi's heartwarming middle class to richer tale

    Can relate.
    You messed up the "marry a billionaire" bit.
    Well I did join the London property market in 2000 which is a close second.
  • Genuinely the environment stuff was an absolute joke. Fucking joke
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    Foxy said:

    Winchester - £45K annual fees I'm told.

    In CH4 hit piece they said they were 25k (in todays money) when he went, which is still a hell of a out of money, but it appears his folks sacrificed a lot to stretch themselves to afford it.
    From the Winchester College Website for 22-23 year:

    The fee for Boarding pupils will be £45,936 per annum (£15,312 per term).
    The fee for Day pupils will be £33,990 per annum (£11,330 per term).

    WHEN HE WENT, it was 25k in todays money adjusted for inflation....I am just quoting CH4. We all know how private school fees have gone totally bonkers over the past 20 years.

    If it was now, I doubt Mr and Mrs Sunak could find 2x the money to send him and that has become true of a lot of middle class parents who used to stretch themselves to send their kids to private schools.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Pulpstar said:

    Rishi's heartwarming middle class to richer tale

    Can relate.
    You messed up the "marry a billionaire" bit.
    And thanks to governments of the last 20 years there's more billionaires than ever, and more poor people, so we've all got a better chance at that than we used to have
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    Truss says she doesn’t think Johnson deserved to be kicked out by colleagues. “He made mistakes but I didn’t think the mistakes he made were sufficient that the Conservative Party should have rejected him”

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1551670988949127170

    She's going for votes.
  • The BBC have had a lot of filler segments. Could have covered another topic such as NHS backlogs
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    Truss says Boris' mistakes were not enough to remove him as PM

    She will regret that, later
    kle4 said:

    A spokesman for Liz Truss claims that Rishi Sunak is not fit for office:

    'Rishi Sunak has tonight proven he is not fit for office

    'His aggressive mansplaining and shouty private school behaviour is desperate, unbecoming and is a gift to Labour'

    Is that a real quote? Because that is very snowflakey.
    Nadine’s tweets are up on screen
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Raworth should be shutting down Sunak more - he keeps going on - not sure it’s doing him any favours…..
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Have either of them explained how they are helping vulnerable and ordinary people through the cost of living crisis, or how they are going to rescue the health service from complete collapse, yet?

    If not they are a waste of space - not just in this debate, but also as prime ministers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Eabhal said:

    Truss is losing it now. Wrong-footed by the support for Johnson.

    Nah. Remember who is voting next up
This discussion has been closed.