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Is the British public the new Édith Piaf? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    "@christopherhope
    ** EXCLUSIVE **
    Boris Johnson has said he does not want to resign and will stay on if the membership backs him
    The PM told former treasurer @peteratcmc over lunch at Chequers on Friday he wishes he could "wipe away" his resignation."

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1551628844137820162

    That's more appropriate than Truss becoming PM, tearing down the Lulu Lytle and replacing it with deleted stock from B and Q, only for Johnson to return.
    In that event will we have to restore the wallpaper to Carrie's standards?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Dan O'Donoghue
    @MrDanDonoghue
    ·
    52m
    Newspaper titles across the North unite tonight to warn Rishi Sunak/Liz Truss not to turn their back on our region once in Number 10. A lot was promised in 2019 and we want to see delivery #TheNorthRemembers

    https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue/status/1551643465506766851
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,591
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Shares in France’s Eutelsat slump after it confirms OneWeb merger talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/france-eutelsat-uk-satellite-firm-oneweb-elon-musk-starlink

    Oh and the British government will have all sorts of handy vetos over the merged company.

    Rishi has quite possibly played an absolute blinder.

    It does rather look like the LEO constellation data provision market will be

    1) Starlink
    2) OneWeb - being actually operational and everything. Being the alternative to Starlink, in OneWebs chosen markets is probably quite a good business plan.
    3) Kuiper - if Jeff can ever get his rockets up.
    Kuiper will happen. Even *If* New Glenn never gets to orbit, Kuiper will launch, as Kuiper is not dependent on NG. It's Kuiper and Oneweb's USP...

    Also note sex-pest Musk's post that Starlink depends on the unlaunched Starship... (*)

    (*) I don't believe that for one minute. he was just sh*tting on the employees he could not sh*g.
    It may happen - the problem is persistent non-delivery. It is hard to think that the slow pace at Blue Origin may be matched by the satellites for Kuiper taking ages.

    Remember when Surrey Satellites saved Galileo’s bacon? Just…

    Starlink V2 is about getting an unassailable lead - even if Bezos is buying all the non Starship launch capacity on the planet, he can’t compete. Can’t solve that problem with money - he’d need throw weight. Which won’t be available for any price. Unless he launches on Starship
    As ever, you are a little too pro-Musk and a little too anti- his rivals. If you had not noticed, SS has not launched, let alone reached orbit. They're nearly as late as NG. And Raptor 2 isn't looking that good.
    Starlink is in operation now. Thousands of satellites. Hundreds of thousands of actual users etc. approval to operate in many countries. Uplink stations in many countries. More satellites being launched every week. Literally.

    OneWeb is now beginning to come into service. Satellites in orbit, ground stations up and running, approval granted by various countries.

    Kuiper - no satellites. No ground stations. No users. No approvals.

    Currently just OneWeb and Starlink are in the game.

    Not sure what you means about Raptor 2 - plenty of videos from the fence at McGregor of multi hundred second runs, thrust vectoring and everything…
    There are plenty of videos of BE-4 as well, with the same criteria. And note they are on Raptor *2* because Raptor *1* did not cut the mustard. And they have blown three Raptor 2's in the last few months.

    Now, this might mean they're pushing the limits. Or it could be a sign the program is in trouble. But bear in mind NG has seven BE-4 engines on its first stage. Super Heavy has 33 (*). As the N1 shows, even with protection, the failure of one engine can doom the rocket.

    SpaceX has a great record in such things. But they are really pushing the limits of the technology, and they may be in for a world of pain. And tech is filled with companies that were leaders who vanished. I doubt that will happen with SpaceX, but don't swallow the Musk Kool-Aid.

    (*) According to Wiki; it regularly changes.
    The main problem with the N1 was lack of funding - they were trying for all up testing, but lacked the funds to lose the first 1/2 dozen boosters. Some of their stuff was mad even by SpaceX throw-it-at-the-sky standards - explosively opened valves, which couldn’t be reset. So completely untested engines off the production line, first flight was first fire…

    The comments from those who’ve worked at SpaceX and were involved with them (as both competitors and helpers) all agree on one thing - it takes years to build an organisation that can launch orbital rockets. And it isn’t something you can create without launching to orbit. Blue Origin is years behind - they haven’t finalised the design of New Glenn to the point of building tooling - they’ve built some test tanks. They really need the experience that some of the small launcher companies have already got - flying rockets. There’s no substitute.
    From memory (there's an online book about it written by an US/?Indian? chap), the N1 was meant to have a dozen+ launches before it successfully got to orbit. The political will - and hence financing - ran out.

    As I keep on saying, you seem too down on Blue Origin, and far too *up* on Musk's ventures.

    I want both to succeed. In fact, it's vital they both do.

    Edit: 'Challenge to Apollo' by Asif A. Siddiqi. Available for free online, and a great resource.

    Part 1:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt1.pdf
    Part 2:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt2.pdf
    If I may, here's a section on what it's like when an Apollo or SuperHeavy-sized rocket goes boom near the pad:

    "Only in the trench did I understand the sense of the expression "your heart in your mouth." Something quite improbable was being created all around--the steppe was trembling like a vibration test thundering, rumbling, whistling, gnashing-- mixed together in some terrible, seemingly unending cacophony. The trench proved to be so shallow and unreliable that one wanted to burrow into the sand so as not to hear this nightmare.., the thick wave from the explosion passed over us, sweeping away and leveling everything. Behind it came hot metal raining down from above. Pieces of the rocket were thrown ten kilometers away, and large windows were shattered in structures
    40 kilometers away. ,_ 400 kilogram spherical tank landed on the roof o[ the installation and testing wing. seven kilometers from the launch pad.

    By some estimates, the strength of the explosion was close to 250 tons of TNT--not a nuclear explosion, but certainly the most powerful explosion ever in the history of rocketry. The booster had lifted off to a height of 200 meters before falling over and exploding on the launch pad itself, about twenty-three seconds after launch. The emergency rescue system fired in the nick of time, at T+ 14.5 seconds, to shoot the descent apparatus of the payload two kilometers from the pad, thus saving it from destruction. Remarkably, no doubt because of the
    stringent safety precautions, there were no fatalities or injuries, although the physical devastation was phenomenal. When the first teams arrived near the pad in the early-morning hours of July 4, there was only carnage left behind:
    We arrived at the fueling station and were horrified--the windows and doors were smashed out, the iron entrance gate was askew, the equipment was scattered about with the light o[ dawn and was turned to stone--the steppe was literally strewn withdead animals and birds. Where so many o[ them came [rom and how they appeared in
    such quantities at the station I still do not understand.'

    And they reckon that only a small fraction of the fuel on the rocket went boom.
    Stand back from the window, when the rocket goes boom.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wX5GD1N7bEw
    The Soviet lack of understanding of basic safety was a feature of their rocket programs

    If you don’t mind watching humans burning to death - https://youtu.be/_ybnj4jcnwg
    The little I read of either space programme, but particularly the Soviet one, the more I'm amazed anyone made it up there and back in their death traps.
    Very true.

    But not just in Russia: Brazil had a really nasty one in 2003, killing 19 people. This is one thing I fear with SpaceX's SH/SS development: failing frequently is fine until it is not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLS-1_V03
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,591
    Jonathan said:

    Is it true that Ukraine has agreed to host the next Tory leadership debate?

    Come on, be fair. Ukraine is used to being under fire from evil invaders. They're not prepared for the fallout from a Conservative leadership contest...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Jonathan said:

    Is it true that Ukraine has agreed to host the next Tory leadership debate?

    Come on, be fair. Ukraine is used to being under fire from evil invaders. They're not prepared for the fallout from a Conservative leadership contest...
    I was thinking more, haven't they suffered enough?

    Although Truss might end up in Rostov-on-Don by mistake...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Shares in France’s Eutelsat slump after it confirms OneWeb merger talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/france-eutelsat-uk-satellite-firm-oneweb-elon-musk-starlink

    Oh and the British government will have all sorts of handy vetos over the merged company.

    Rishi has quite possibly played an absolute blinder.

    It does rather look like the LEO constellations data provision market will be

    1) Starlink
    2) OneWeb - being actually operational and everything. Being the alternative to Starlink, in OneWebs chosen markets is probably quite a good business plan.
    3) Kuiper - if Jeff can ever get his rockets up.
    Kuiper will happen. Even *If* New Glenn never gets to orbit, Kuiper will launch, as Kuiper is not dependent on NG. It's Kuiper and Oneweb's USP...

    Also note sex-pest Musk's post that Starlink depends on the unlaunched Starship... (*)

    (*) I don't believe that for one minute. he was just sh*tting on the employees he could not sh*g.
    It may happen - the problem is persistent non-delivery. It is hard to think that the slow pace at Blue Origin may be matched by the satellites for Kuiper taking ages.

    Remember when Surrey Satellites saved Galileo’s bacon? Just…

    Starlink V2 is about getting an unassailable lead - even if Bezos is buying all the non Starship launch capacity on the planet, he can’t compete. Can’t solve that problem with money - he’d need throw weight. Which won’t be available for any price. Unless he launches on Starship
    As ever, you are a little too pro-Musk and a little too anti- his rivals. If you had not noticed, SS has not launched, let alone reached orbit. They're nearly as late as NG. And Raptor 2 isn't looking that good.
    Starlink is in operation now. Thousands of satellites. Hundreds of thousands of actual users etc. approval to operate in many countries. Uplink stations in many countries. More satellites being launched every week. Literally.

    OneWeb is now beginning to come into service. Satellites in orbit, ground stations up and running, approval granted by various countries.

    Kuiper - no satellites. No ground stations. No users. No approvals.

    Currently just OneWeb and Starlink are in the game.

    Not sure what you means about Raptor 2 - plenty of videos from the fence at McGregor of multi hundred second runs, thrust vectoring and everything…
    There are plenty of videos of BE-4 as well, with the same criteria. And note they are on Raptor *2* because Raptor *1* did not cut the mustard. And they have blown three Raptor 2's in the last few months.

    Now, this might mean they're pushing the limits. Or it could be a sign the program is in trouble. But bear in mind NG has seven BE-4 engines on its first stage. Super Heavy has 33 (*). As the N1 shows, even with protection, the failure of one engine can doom the rocket.

    SpaceX has a great record in such things. But they are really pushing the limits of the technology, and they may be in for a world of pain. And tech is filled with companies that were leaders who vanished. I doubt that will happen with SpaceX, but don't swallow the Musk Kool-Aid.

    (*) According to Wiki; it regularly changes.
    The main problem with the N1 was lack of funding - they were trying for all up testing, but lacked the funds to lose the first 1/2 dozen boosters. Some of their stuff was mad even by SpaceX throw-it-at-the-sky standards - explosively opened valves, which couldn’t be reset. So completely untested engines off the production line, first flight was first fire…

    The comments from those who’ve worked at SpaceX and were involved with them (as both competitors and helpers) all agree on one thing - it takes years to build an organisation that can launch orbital rockets. And it isn’t something you can create without launching to orbit. Blue Origin is years behind - they haven’t finalised the design of New Glenn to the point of building tooling - they’ve built some test tanks. They really need the experience that some of the small launcher companies have already got - flying rockets. There’s no substitute.
    From memory (there's an online book about it written by an US/?Indian? chap), the N1 was meant to have a dozen+ launches before it successfully got to orbit. The political will - and hence financing - ran out.

    As I keep on saying, you seem too down on Blue Origin, and far too *up* on Musk's ventures.

    I want both to succeed. In fact, it's vital they both do.

    Edit: 'Challenge to Apollo' by Asif A. Siddiqi. Available for free online, and a great resource.

    Part 1:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt1.pdf
    Part 2:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt2.pdf
    If I may, here's a section on what it's like when an Apollo or SuperHeavy-sized rocket goes boom near the pad:

    "Only in the trench did I understand the sense of the expression "your heart in your mouth." Something quite improbable was being created all around--the steppe was trembling like a vibration test thundering, rumbling, whistling, gnashing-- mixed together in some terrible, seemingly unending cacophony. The trench proved to be so shallow and unreliable that one wanted to burrow into the sand so as not to hear this nightmare.., the thick wave from the explosion passed over us, sweeping away and leveling everything. Behind it came hot metal raining down from above. Pieces of the rocket were thrown ten kilometers away, and large windows were shattered in structures
    40 kilometers away. ,_ 400 kilogram spherical tank landed on the roof o[ the installation and testing wing. seven kilometers from the launch pad.

    By some estimates, the strength of the explosion was close to 250 tons of TNT--not a nuclear explosion, but certainly the most powerful explosion ever in the history of rocketry. The booster had lifted off to a height of 200 meters before falling over and exploding on the launch pad itself, about twenty-three seconds after launch. The emergency rescue system fired in the nick of time, at T+ 14.5 seconds, to shoot the descent apparatus of the payload two kilometers from the pad, thus saving it from destruction. Remarkably, no doubt because of the
    stringent safety precautions, there were no fatalities or injuries, although the physical devastation was phenomenal. When the first teams arrived near the pad in the early-morning hours of July 4, there was only carnage left behind:
    We arrived at the fueling station and were horrified--the windows and doors were smashed out, the iron entrance gate was askew, the equipment was scattered about with the light o[ dawn and was turned to stone--the steppe was literally strewn withdead animals and birds. Where so many o[ them came [rom and how they appeared in
    such quantities at the station I still do not understand.'

    And they reckon that only a small fraction of the fuel on the rocket went boom.
    Stand back from the window, when the rocket goes boom.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wX5GD1N7bEw
    The Soviet lack of understanding of basic safety was a feature of their rocket programs

    If you don’t mind watching humans burning to death - https://youtu.be/_ybnj4jcnwg
    The little I read of either space programme, but particularly the Soviet one, the more I'm amazed anyone made it up there and back in their death traps.
    Very true.

    But not just in Russia: Brazil had a really nasty one in 2003, killing 19 people. This is one thing I fear with SpaceX's SH/SS development: failing frequently is fine until it is not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLS-1_V03
    The trick is not having people close to where you are playing with propellants.

    That and flight termination systems make rocketry safe. A kiloton or 2 on the horizon is just a loud bang.

    The Brazilian thing was stupid negligence of the most basic sort.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    Andy_JS said:

    "@christopherhope
    ** EXCLUSIVE **
    Boris Johnson has said he does not want to resign and will stay on if the membership backs him
    The PM told former treasurer @peteratcmc over lunch at Chequers on Friday he wishes he could "wipe away" his resignation."

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1551628844137820162

    That's more appropriate than Truss becoming PM, tearing down the Lulu Lytle and replacing it with deleted stock from B and Q, only for Johnson to return.
    In that event will we have to restore the wallpaper to Carrie's standards?
    Restoration:

    Carrie [on return to No 10 flat after a Truss premiership]: Christ

    Johnson: Now what?

    Carrie: The fridge is stuffed full of beetroot flans.

    Johnson: Barbarians.

    Carrie: I know. Bloody lower middle classes and their sodding vegetables.

    Johnson: It's not that. I'm more worried that I can't hide in there if it is full of flan.



  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,898

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.53 Liz Truss 65%
    2.98 Rishi Sunak 34%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.51 Liz Truss 66%
    2.94 Rishi Sunak 34%

    A slight move to Rishi just before the off:-

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.56 Liz Truss 64%
    2.8 Rishi Sunak 36%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.55 Liz Truss 65%
    2.8 Rishi Sunak 36%
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    edited July 2022

    EPG said:

    A genuine loss to the world. He knowingly sacrificed his career to help push through change in NI. Not many people have walked that walk.
    In all fairness to the man's legacy especially today, he did not do so - he held his job for seven years after the GFA, and the rise of SF-DUP was not widely foreseen at the time.
    I recall him talking about the probable outcome at the time - he was seen by many in the Unionist community as having given too much. Just like Hume in his community.

    I’m one interview he openly suggested that the anti-agreement (and semi-anti agreement) hypocrites would reap the benefits.

    He remained leader until the voters threw him out of Westminster, and at that stage he was in total agreement with Paisley, having shut down the Assembly for three years because he wanted Sinn Fein retroactively excluded from the institutions. (The pretext was a supposed IRA plot. Nobody was charged, and most likely it was a spurious fix-up by reactionary elements of the police.) The peace agreement was an achievement worthy of the Nobel Prize but let's not do hagiography about purported selflessness. Hume's problem was not having given too much - NI Catholics not seeing themselves as having anything to give, as such - but that the SDLP had nothing left on the agenda and was rather aloof from ethnic politics.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited July 2022
    That's interesting.

    I seem to have had an invitation to attend Tory leadership hustings to my fictional name account subscribed to one of the Conservative Party feeds. No idea which feed, though - I'm just subscribed to one for each party.

    Does this mean they are open to members of the public?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Its terrifying already and its only the opening shot
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Has Sunak had his smile painted on?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Sophie Raworth is very alluring.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    Oh lordie. Come on Rishi, save us.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Comment from GF: "Oh God, she's a Leo"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Surely the Beeb have chosen the wrong audience. These are first time Tory voters in Stoke. As HY has repeatedly told us, these people aren't Tories and can be ignored.

    Shouldn't the audience be well off pensioners from the south?
  • Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Good start by Rishi paying tribute to Lord Trimble
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Ersatz Blair v. Ersatz Thatcher.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663

    Sophie Raworth is very alluring.

    True fact. I once sniffed Sophie Rayworths milk.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Sunak thinks he has done enough for the peons already.

    He hasn't.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Please sir/madam/yo! (as personal pronoun preference dictates) what is scheduled time & form for tonight's debate? And how long is it? Thanks!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DavidL said:

    Oh lordie. Come on Rishi, save us.

    Does he really have that in him? He has about 1 week to show us!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    We want Soph
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Surely the Beeb have chosen the wrong audience. These are first time Tory voters in Stoke. As HY has repeatedly told us, these people aren't Tories and can be ignored.

    Shouldn't the audience be well off pensioners from the south?

    No one will be Tories soon!
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Rishi does speak well in this format
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Jonathan said:

    Sophie Raworth is very alluring.

    True fact. I once sniffed Sophie Rayworths milk.
    ?????
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    I don't think they are all first time Con voters.

    They are all Con voters.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,591

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Shares in France’s Eutelsat slump after it confirms OneWeb merger talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/france-eutelsat-uk-satellite-firm-oneweb-elon-musk-starlink

    Oh and the British government will have all sorts of handy vetos over the merged company.

    Rishi has quite possibly played an absolute blinder.

    It does rather look like the LEO constellations data provision market will be

    1) Starlink
    2) OneWeb - being actually operational and everything. Being the alternative to Starlink, in OneWebs chosen markets is probably quite a good business plan.
    3) Kuiper - if Jeff can ever get his rockets up.
    Kuiper will happen. Even *If* New Glenn never gets to orbit, Kuiper will launch, as Kuiper is not dependent on NG. It's Kuiper and Oneweb's USP...

    Also note sex-pest Musk's post that Starlink depends on the unlaunched Starship... (*)

    (*) I don't believe that for one minute. he was just sh*tting on the employees he could not sh*g.
    It may happen - the problem is persistent non-delivery. It is hard to think that the slow pace at Blue Origin may be matched by the satellites for Kuiper taking ages.

    Remember when Surrey Satellites saved Galileo’s bacon? Just…

    Starlink V2 is about getting an unassailable lead - even if Bezos is buying all the non Starship launch capacity on the planet, he can’t compete. Can’t solve that problem with money - he’d need throw weight. Which won’t be available for any price. Unless he launches on Starship
    As ever, you are a little too pro-Musk and a little too anti- his rivals. If you had not noticed, SS has not launched, let alone reached orbit. They're nearly as late as NG. And Raptor 2 isn't looking that good.
    Starlink is in operation now. Thousands of satellites. Hundreds of thousands of actual users etc. approval to operate in many countries. Uplink stations in many countries. More satellites being launched every week. Literally.

    OneWeb is now beginning to come into service. Satellites in orbit, ground stations up and running, approval granted by various countries.

    Kuiper - no satellites. No ground stations. No users. No approvals.

    Currently just OneWeb and Starlink are in the game.

    Not sure what you means about Raptor 2 - plenty of videos from the fence at McGregor of multi hundred second runs, thrust vectoring and everything…
    There are plenty of videos of BE-4 as well, with the same criteria. And note they are on Raptor *2* because Raptor *1* did not cut the mustard. And they have blown three Raptor 2's in the last few months.

    Now, this might mean they're pushing the limits. Or it could be a sign the program is in trouble. But bear in mind NG has seven BE-4 engines on its first stage. Super Heavy has 33 (*). As the N1 shows, even with protection, the failure of one engine can doom the rocket.

    SpaceX has a great record in such things. But they are really pushing the limits of the technology, and they may be in for a world of pain. And tech is filled with companies that were leaders who vanished. I doubt that will happen with SpaceX, but don't swallow the Musk Kool-Aid.

    (*) According to Wiki; it regularly changes.
    The main problem with the N1 was lack of funding - they were trying for all up testing, but lacked the funds to lose the first 1/2 dozen boosters. Some of their stuff was mad even by SpaceX throw-it-at-the-sky standards - explosively opened valves, which couldn’t be reset. So completely untested engines off the production line, first flight was first fire…

    The comments from those who’ve worked at SpaceX and were involved with them (as both competitors and helpers) all agree on one thing - it takes years to build an organisation that can launch orbital rockets. And it isn’t something you can create without launching to orbit. Blue Origin is years behind - they haven’t finalised the design of New Glenn to the point of building tooling - they’ve built some test tanks. They really need the experience that some of the small launcher companies have already got - flying rockets. There’s no substitute.
    From memory (there's an online book about it written by an US/?Indian? chap), the N1 was meant to have a dozen+ launches before it successfully got to orbit. The political will - and hence financing - ran out.

    As I keep on saying, you seem too down on Blue Origin, and far too *up* on Musk's ventures.

    I want both to succeed. In fact, it's vital they both do.

    Edit: 'Challenge to Apollo' by Asif A. Siddiqi. Available for free online, and a great resource.

    Part 1:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt1.pdf
    Part 2:
    https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4408pt2.pdf
    If I may, here's a section on what it's like when an Apollo or SuperHeavy-sized rocket goes boom near the pad:

    "Only in the trench did I understand the sense of the expression "your heart in your mouth." Something quite improbable was being created all around--the steppe was trembling like a vibration test thundering, rumbling, whistling, gnashing-- mixed together in some terrible, seemingly unending cacophony. The trench proved to be so shallow and unreliable that one wanted to burrow into the sand so as not to hear this nightmare.., the thick wave from the explosion passed over us, sweeping away and leveling everything. Behind it came hot metal raining down from above. Pieces of the rocket were thrown ten kilometers away, and large windows were shattered in structures
    40 kilometers away. ,_ 400 kilogram spherical tank landed on the roof o[ the installation and testing wing. seven kilometers from the launch pad.

    By some estimates, the strength of the explosion was close to 250 tons of TNT--not a nuclear explosion, but certainly the most powerful explosion ever in the history of rocketry. The booster had lifted off to a height of 200 meters before falling over and exploding on the launch pad itself, about twenty-three seconds after launch. The emergency rescue system fired in the nick of time, at T+ 14.5 seconds, to shoot the descent apparatus of the payload two kilometers from the pad, thus saving it from destruction. Remarkably, no doubt because of the
    stringent safety precautions, there were no fatalities or injuries, although the physical devastation was phenomenal. When the first teams arrived near the pad in the early-morning hours of July 4, there was only carnage left behind:
    We arrived at the fueling station and were horrified--the windows and doors were smashed out, the iron entrance gate was askew, the equipment was scattered about with the light o[ dawn and was turned to stone--the steppe was literally strewn withdead animals and birds. Where so many o[ them came [rom and how they appeared in
    such quantities at the station I still do not understand.'

    And they reckon that only a small fraction of the fuel on the rocket went boom.
    Stand back from the window, when the rocket goes boom.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wX5GD1N7bEw
    The Soviet lack of understanding of basic safety was a feature of their rocket programs

    If you don’t mind watching humans burning to death - https://youtu.be/_ybnj4jcnwg
    The little I read of either space programme, but particularly the Soviet one, the more I'm amazed anyone made it up there and back in their death traps.
    Very true.

    But not just in Russia: Brazil had a really nasty one in 2003, killing 19 people. This is one thing I fear with SpaceX's SH/SS development: failing frequently is fine until it is not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLS-1_V03
    The trick is not having people close to where you are playing with propellants.

    That and flight termination systems make rocketry safe. A kiloton or 2 on the horizon is just a loud bang.

    The Brazilian thing was stupid negligence of the most basic sort.
    Also see the event where Virgin Galactic's friends killed three engineers in an explosion.

    Or the event this year where another 'emergent' rocket company had an event with people nearby, fortunately without casualties. Can't find a link immediately, but they got *lots* of criticism...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1m
    What's going on? It opened with two serial killers, then a lot of rules and now the audience.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh lordie. Come on Rishi, save us.

    Does he really have that in him? He has about 1 week to show us!
    Odds against. But we can hope.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 309
    It's a choice between the Tory Ed Miliband and IDS in a skirt.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    Jonathan said:

    Sophie Raworth is very alluring.

    True fact. I once sniffed Sophie Rayworths milk.
    Interesting if breast milk.

    If a little pervy....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,898

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Yes, we don't need to hear the audience's problems. We know them; we often share them.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    MikeL said:

    I don't think they are all first time Con voters.

    They are all Con voters.

    How many are members though? The voters don't count remember.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    What was with those weird opening shots of the candidates playing “statues” in front of the camera.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    FFS what has Trusster done to her voice. I can totally hear Thatcher tonality in her. But it sounds totally forced and frankly likely to make her vom later.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    And the punches have started
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited July 2022
    Neither candidate allowing the host to interrupt. Truss allowing Sunak or interrupt, though.

    Sunak really does sound like Blair, in his cadences at least. And the hand movements too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    One nil to Truss after five minutes. Utter bollocks, but read meat bollocks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Why? One's not very good and the other's utterly fecking awful.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Liz getting irritated lol
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    God this is dross
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Just let them rant at each other about how they are LIARS for an hour. Job done.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    First attack from Rishi on Liz, accuses her of having plans that would lead to massive borrowing and debt.

    Liz in turn attacks Rishi's plans saying they will lead to contraction and recession
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Sophie Raworth is very alluring.

    She looks OK :)
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Yes, we don't need to hear the audience's problems. We know them; we often share them.
    Yes, but Rishi doesn't.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Liz getting irritated lol

    Excuse me, I am trying to talk bollocks here, stop telling me that I am talking bollocks, it is stopping me from talking bollocks.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Outright lie by Sunak.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    HYUFD said:

    First attack from Rishi on Liz, accuses her of having plans that would lead to massive borrowing and debt.

    Liz in turn attacks Rishi's plans saying they will lead to contraction and recession

    So whichever one wins, Keir Starmer has his attack lines sorted.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Looks like LAB going 15% clear tomorrow! What a pile of shyte! 👿
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Bloody Sunak with his bullshit “nation’s credit card” routine. He says it often enough and with enough conviction that I think he believes it himself
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Driver said:

    Outright lie by Sunak.

    Which bit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited July 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Why? One's not very good and the other's utterly fecking awful.
    I'd rather look at videos of crashing rockets. They look more exciting.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    On a bus.
    Enjoying the debate more through your comments than I would watching it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Driver said:

    Outright lie by Sunak.

    Did he say Truss was competent?
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    No love lost here, can't see the loser in the winner's cabinet afterwards.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    This is Brilliant! Absolutely savaging each other after only few minutes and there is a month and a half of this to come!

    Bravo Tories.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    This is good stuff. They hate each other.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    Truss is in a different class to the Blair impersonator Sunak.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    Outright lie by Sunak.

    Which bit.
    When he said that Minford said interest rates would have to go up to 7%.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    My dad just made the point that 7% interest rates might not be so scary for the people of smoke on Trent.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    What’s happened to Liz’s head?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Seeing that this debate is feisty, the Tory party is going to be absolutely divided after this. Probably worse under Truss
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Looks like LAB going 15% clear tomorrow! What a pile of shyte! 👿

    This is fucking brilliant. Regardless of where our individual politics are we all have to recognise car crash TV when we see it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    Good grief, we’re screwed. They hate each other.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Outright lie by Sunak.

    Which bit.
    When he said that Minford said interest rates would have to go up to 7%.
    Ha, yeah.
    I think I’m a minute behind in New York.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    edited July 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Why? One's not very good and the other's utterly fecking awful.
    I'd rather look at videos of crashing rockets. They look more exciting.
    I'm actually watching the live feed from the hall. But not of the debate. Of an organ concert recorded about five years ago.

    It's very good. Apart from the fact the organist confirms every stereotype about Dutch humour in his intro.

    https://youtu.be/0HowudzPGfc
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Rishi is very rude, breaking into Truss's presentation. Get a grip Sophie.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    tlg86 said:

    My dad just made the point that 7% interest rates might not be so scary for the people of smoke on Trent.

    Some of us with savings would find them personally welcome at a time of 9% inflation.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    "I don't accept those points" Not great from Liz.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    tlg86 said:

    My dad just made the point that 7% interest rates might not be so scary for the people of smoke on Trent.

    Are they all old with no mortgages and huge savings by any chance?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    edited July 2022
    Taxes are completely different from interest rates. Really?????? No connection?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    edited July 2022
    Think Sunak is interrupting so much to try and show himself as "Stronger" than Truss
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    edited July 2022
    10 mins in I am with Bart. From this two, it has to be Truss. Sunak would be a total cluster going into a world recession. Totally captured by the Treasury
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Rishi batting hard on Truss’s crazy economic plans
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    they have brought in Faisal Islam and Chris Mason, who had to put their vat of popcorn down to ask a question
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Why? One's not very good and the other's utterly fecking awful.
    I'd rather look at videos of crashing rockets. They look more exciting.
    I'm actually watching the live feed from the hall. But not of the debate. Of an organ concert recorded about five years ago.

    It's very good. Apart from the fact the organist confirms every stereotype about Dutch humour in his intro.

    https://youtu.be/0HowudzPGfc
    What's the lady in the russet dress doing?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I'm on holiday in Snowdonia where phone reception is crap and am just about following PB comments
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    tlg86 said:

    My dad just made the point that 7% interest rates might not be so scary for the people of smoke on Trent.

    So what? They aren't really talking to the audience, because hardly any of them have votes.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    CatMan said:

    Think Sunak is interrupting so much to try and show himself as "Stronger" than Truss

    I think it’s backfiring. Trying too hard.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Ersatz Blair v. Ersatz Thatcher.

    Except the Thatch wants us to live on tick!
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Yeah, the Tory party is just hopelessly divided
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    edited July 2022
    Truuster just called Sunak's factual description of mortgage interest rates in the US as "Project Fear". To which Sunak said "only one of us was on the Project Fear bus and that was you."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Get on with it! We want to hear from the candidates

    Why? One's not very good and the other's utterly fecking awful.
    I'd rather look at videos of crashing rockets. They look more exciting.
    I'm actually watching the live feed from the hall. But not of the debate. Of an organ concert recorded about five years ago.

    It's very good. Apart from the fact the organist confirms every stereotype about Dutch humour in his intro.

    https://youtu.be/0HowudzPGfc
    What's the lady in the russet dress doing?
    Turning the pages and pressing the combination pistons which change multiple stops at once.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    On topic I can now sympathise with the senile racist old sods in the Tory party wanting Boris Johnson back.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    “Project Fear” kill me
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    edited July 2022
    This is genuinely nasty. In an other universe, Ben Wallace is gently edging out Mourdaunt in a good humoured contest.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Damn, my connection is buffering.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Gaffe by Truss, throwing ‘project fear’ at Sunak!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Truss seems to have a deliberate plan to allow Sunak to interrupt as much as he likes and she's barely interrupting back.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597

    Seeing that this debate is feisty, the Tory party is going to be absolutely divided after this. Probably worse under Truss

    This is why they took so long to get rid of Boris, apre moi le deluge!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Hard to see how the loser can work in a top job for the winner, after this!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    Rishi overdoing it on the aggression big time. Must stop that.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Sunak now throwing Trussters own words back at her. "You were right then (saying that her plans now are mental) and you are right now"
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    Sunak better-prepared but domineering - I wonder if he's overdoing it
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Also, Truss is hugely unlikeable.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Faisal Islam now telling Truss that her borrow to cut taxes plan is incoherent bullshit.
This discussion has been closed.