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Rule breaking Rishi wins the debate as Kemi puts the bad in Badenoch – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,845
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile ConHome finds Badenoch trounces Sunak 60% to 34% and Mordaunt 59% to 31%.

    Badenoch also easily beats Truss 61% to 31%.

    However she likely goes out before the last 3

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/17/the-complete-run-offs-from-our-next-tory-leader-survey-badenoch-first-truss-second-sunak-third-mordaunt-fourth-tugendhat-fifth/

    Gosh. And the MPs are going to exclude her from the run-off. The members will be livid. Imagine going to a restaurant and the dish you want - the one you've been really looking forward to ordering - is 'off'.
    Nah. They had barely heard of her 2 weeks ago, will retain some fond memorie of her 2 weeks from now, but will move on.

    The chef said they were out of the beef, but the pork was still available, and you end up loving it.
    And the whole point of the Tory system is to stop the members ordering trifle for main course in the first place.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Truss looks value at current odds no? Supposedly a bit ahead of rishi in 1:1 contest and perhaps a bit more likely to pick up support than Mordaunt.

    What am I missing?

    She's a Lib Dem Remainer that will go down badly with the Tory members.

    Then add in her republicanism.
    Do you think she makes final 2?
    Only if shock evidence emerges that she was once a member of Plaid Cymru.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607

    FWIW prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 110 (+9)
    Mordaunt - 84 (+1)
    Truss - 89 (+25)
    Badenoch - 50 (+1)
    Tugendhat - 22 (-9)

    Truss was dreadful again from what I have seen.

    Still, you might be right as the Braverman votes move across.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,087
    edited July 2022

    FWIW prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 110 (+9)
    Mordaunt - 84 (+1)
    Truss - 89 (+25)
    Badenoch - 50 (+1)
    Tugendhat - 22 (-9)

    I reckon..

    Sunak 116 (+15)
    Mordaunt 100 (+17)
    Truss 86 (+22)
    Badenoch 54 (+5)

    Tom Tugs to bow out Monday morning.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,492
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Truss looks value at current odds no? Supposedly a bit ahead of rishi in 1:1 contest and perhaps a bit more likely to pick up support than Mordaunt.

    What am I missing?

    She's a Lib Dem Remainer that will go down badly with the Tory members.

    Then add in her republicanism.
    Do you think she makes final 2?
    Yesterday I thought it was a 33% chance she made the final 2 nowv I think it is 50/50.

    That assessment is entirely down to Penny Mordaunt.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    FPT:

    Not sure about this.

    Take a look at Nick's summary about how well each one came across personality-wise. I'm not saying Nick is right (and there seems to be a wide range of opinions on her about who did well) but he is an ex-MP and so may have a better understanding of how MPs look at these things. I thought his comment about Badenoch was interesting in that she seems to be looking to broaden her appeal. She almost certainly will benefit from the Con Home survey released today. Truss did enough tonight to probably stop the doubts but I don't see why Sunak would pick up so many votes as his performance tonight was pretty much like his performance on Friday.

    TT definitely looks out after tonight. The one I would question about is Penny M. I didn't think she was that great and her closing statement was a bit weak. I can see a few of her backers thinking that she will never get over the self-ID when it comes to the membership and, together with not that inspiring a performance, wondering should they switch.

    I think the only safe assumption I would make about this race at the moment is that TT will be out tomorrow.
    I'm assuming Sunak picks up some from the bleedage from Tugendhat and some from Mordaunt, though she picks ups enough elsewhere to still move forward slightly.
    As @IshmaelZ says, if TT wants to make a clean sweep, he only really has two options. In that regards, I do wonder whether Badenoch's comment that 'we should move on from Brexit' was a pitch to some of his supporters who support the clean start agenda.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    edited July 2022
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    moonshine said:

    Did all those saying Truss did better watch the same thing as me?! Does no one have anything to say about her praising the Bank of Japan for “keeping inflation low”? What a helmet. All those years round Cabinet and her grasp of economics is frighteningly poor.

    Wait.

    Who said that the BoJ did a great job keeping inflation low? That's a spectacularly moronic comment.
    That would be Liz Truss.
    "All we need to do is to copy Japan, and engineer a three decade long economic stagnation that sees debt-to-GDP swell to more than 250% of GDP. This, my friends, this is progress."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,719

    Carnyx said:

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    No mention of HIGNFY, or standing for Prez of the USA?
    Head of Better Together 2
    Now that would be fun.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.


    Who does he think he is, Jolyon?
    Now where is my wife's kimono and that baseball bat?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    rkrkrk said:

    Truss looks value at current odds no? Supposedly a bit ahead of rishi in 1:1 contest and perhaps a bit more likely to pick up support than Mordaunt.

    What am I missing?

    I tend to agree.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You're nearly as obsessed with race as the GOP.

    You're so woke.
    Totally, it's my middle name.

    But a Black Tory PM would still cause many Labour activists to froth.
    No, it really wouldn't.
    It really would. Like Thatcher wasn't really a woman, KB couldn't really be black because TOREEEZ

    Auntie Tom
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    FPT:

    Not sure about this.

    Take a look at Nick's summary about how well each one came across personality-wise. I'm not saying Nick is right (and there seems to be a wide range of opinions on her about who did well) but he is an ex-MP and so may have a better understanding of how MPs look at these things. I thought his comment about Badenoch was interesting in that she seems to be looking to broaden her appeal. She almost certainly will benefit from the Con Home survey released today. Truss did enough tonight to probably stop the doubts but I don't see why Sunak would pick up so many votes as his performance tonight was pretty much like his performance on Friday.

    TT definitely looks out after tonight. The one I would question about is Penny M. I didn't think she was that great and her closing statement was a bit weak. I can see a few of her backers thinking that she will never get over the self-ID when it comes to the membership and, together with not that inspiring a performance, wondering should they switch.

    I think the only safe assumption I would make about this race at the moment is that TT will be out tomorrow.
    I'm assuming Sunak picks up some from the bleedage from Tugendhat and some from Mordaunt, though she picks ups enough elsewhere to still move forward slightly.
    As @IshmaelZ says, if TT wants to make a clean sweep, he only really has two options. In that regards, I do wonder whether Badenoch's comment that 'we should move on from Brexit' was a pitch to some of his supporters who support the clean start agenda.
    This wasn't about who TT endorses though, it was about whether he will lose any support in advance of the vote and his defeat. If some MPs were backing him principally as a steady option, Sunak could pick those up. We know not all MPs backing a candidate will follow that candidate anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    No mention of HIGNFY, or standing for Prez of the USA?
    Head of Better Together 2
    Now that would be fun.
    Not exactly a fair fight though.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    FPT:

    Not sure about this.

    Take a look at Nick's summary about how well each one came across personality-wise. I'm not saying Nick is right (and there seems to be a wide range of opinions on her about who did well) but he is an ex-MP and so may have a better understanding of how MPs look at these things. I thought his comment about Badenoch was interesting in that she seems to be looking to broaden her appeal. She almost certainly will benefit from the Con Home survey released today. Truss did enough tonight to probably stop the doubts but I don't see why Sunak would pick up so many votes as his performance tonight was pretty much like his performance on Friday.

    TT definitely looks out after tonight. The one I would question about is Penny M. I didn't think she was that great and her closing statement was a bit weak. I can see a few of her backers thinking that she will never get over the self-ID when it comes to the membership and, together with not that inspiring a performance, wondering should they switch.

    I think the only safe assumption I would make about this race at the moment is that TT will be out tomorrow.
    If he's got any sense, he won't wait for the vote. Endorsing now buys him the best post leadership race Cabinet position - assuming his candidate wins, of course!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Carnyx said:

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    No mention of HIGNFY, or standing for Prez of the USA?
    Head of Better Together 2
    But some think he might campaign for Yes!

    A mixed blessing 😉

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile ConHome finds Badenoch trounces Sunak 60% to 34% and Mordaunt 59% to 31%.

    Badenoch also easily beats Truss 61% to 31%.

    However she likely goes out before the last 3

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/17/the-complete-run-offs-from-our-next-tory-leader-survey-badenoch-first-truss-second-sunak-third-mordaunt-fourth-tugendhat-fifth/

    These are the voters who matter. Tory MPs take note when voting tomorrow.
    The Tory membership had Mordaunt in the lead only two days ago. The next survey won't have Badenoch nearly as high after tonight's debate performance.
    MPs know these characters way better than all of us so they shouldn't be too influenced by surveys of members who barely know them.
    Especially when the ConHome "survey" is a classic ice cream poll, highly susceptible to manipulation by manipulators.

    Might that be purpose for which it's deliberately designed?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,719
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    No mention of HIGNFY, or standing for Prez of the USA?
    Head of Better Together 2
    Now that would be fun.
    Not exactly a fair fight though.
    He's been minister for the Union for what is it, a midge's bawhair under three years? Bit late to complain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,666
    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    FPT:

    Not sure about this.

    Take a look at Nick's summary about how well each one came across personality-wise. I'm not saying Nick is right (and there seems to be a wide range of opinions on her about who did well) but he is an ex-MP and so may have a better understanding of how MPs look at these things. I thought his comment about Badenoch was interesting in that she seems to be looking to broaden her appeal. She almost certainly will benefit from the Con Home survey released today. Truss did enough tonight to probably stop the doubts but I don't see why Sunak would pick up so many votes as his performance tonight was pretty much like his performance on Friday.

    TT definitely looks out after tonight. The one I would question about is Penny M. I didn't think she was that great and her closing statement was a bit weak. I can see a few of her backers thinking that she will never get over the self-ID when it comes to the membership and, together with not that inspiring a performance, wondering should they switch.

    I think the only safe assumption I would make about this race at the moment is that TT will be out tomorrow.
    I'm assuming Sunak picks up some from the bleedage from Tugendhat and some from Mordaunt, though she picks ups enough elsewhere to still move forward slightly.
    As @IshmaelZ says, if TT wants to make a clean sweep, he only really has two options. In that regards, I do wonder whether Badenoch's comment that 'we should move on from Brexit' was a pitch to some of his supporters who support the clean start agenda.
    This wasn't about who TT endorses though, it was about whether he will lose any support in advance of the vote and his defeat. If some MPs were backing him principally as a steady option, Sunak could pick those up. We know not all MPs backing a candidate will follow that candidate anyway.
    I don't think you can assume the Braverman vote will move en bloc to Truss as I don't think the ERG vote is as monolithic as made out (McVey and Davies were backing Hunt FFS). Plus, how many MPs in RW seats and not sitting on Francois' 31K majority really see Truss as the one who will keep them their seats?

    The MP electorate in this Tory contest is a hell of a lot different from the previous contests in terms of its composition etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    Would that not doom him among members though? It'd be a bit obvious.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Number of Liberal Democrat seats at next UK GE - William Hill
    (The Lib Dems won 8 seats at the last GE, on the new boundaries, according to Baxter’s sums.)

    Over 25 seats 4/7
    Over 40 seats 2/1
    Over 60 seats 13/2
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    Pulpstar said:

    FWIW prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 110 (+9)
    Mordaunt - 84 (+1)
    Truss - 89 (+25)
    Badenoch - 50 (+1)
    Tugendhat - 22 (-9)

    I reckon..

    Sunak 116 (+15)
    Mordaunt 100 (+17)
    Truss 86 (+22)
    Badenoch 54 (+5)

    Tom Tugs to bow out Monday morning.
    Counting out TT and KB who won’t get close. It has to be Mordaunt that wins by a process of elimination. Sunak can’t be trusted going into a recession. And Truss comes across as a less intelligent less electable version of Boris.

    Mordaunt is a very imperfect candidate but as HYUFD says, if she appoints good people than the country might be ok. She can be the apple pie and curves for the breakfast tv sofas.

    With Hunt as Chancellor (not Sunak!), Kemi as Chief Sec to Treasury, TT Foreign Sec, Wallace defence. And then some mug as Home. I struggle to find a job for Sunak because he doesn’t deserve the big jobs ahead of the others and he’s too savvy to do the Home Office. Might as well keep Javid where he is (was!). Education up for grabs in my cabinet if Sunak wants it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Hadn't come across Rishi's faux WW2 style video trumpeting his Brexit credentials. I get he needs something like this, but it is a bit try hard.

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1548712009130295297?cxt=HHwWgoC-ub3XkP4qAAAA
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,772

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    Why are the odds so short on Commissioner for Standards in Public Life? Infinity to 1 more appropriate. Only possibility is for the laughs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,666
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    Would that not doom him among members though? It'd be a bit obvious.
    Cameron lent a few MPs to Davis in 2005 in the last round to knock out Fox, IDS lent a few MPs to Clarke in 2001 to knock out Portillo, Boris likely lent a few to Hunt in 2019 to knock out Gove, did not stop any of them winning the membership vote
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Good evening

    I have been readying for our trip to Scotland and the Caledonian canal and only caught the end of the debate

    Sunak seemed to be the best and I just find the rest very run of the mill

    While we are talking of hot weather, we lost a local 24 year old female paddle boarder in Conwy on Friday evening, notwithstanding all the efforts of the RNLI and the coastguard, my son and his colleagues rescued a father and son who had fallen out of their kayak and been in the sea for 40 minutes the night previously, and tonight they have been out to rescue a lilo floating out to sea with its occupant

    Indeed the coastguard are receiving numerous 999 calls at present, and people need to respect the sea and not put their lives at risk or the volunteer RNLI crews

    It's going to be rough for your son and his compatriots, as folks head for the water to beat the heat.

    Big problem in Pacific Northwest when we get heatwaves, as the water is generally VERY cold, both saltwater (North Pacific, straits & Puget Sound) and freshwater (glacier-fed rivers).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    FPT:

    Not sure about this.

    Take a look at Nick's summary about how well each one came across personality-wise. I'm not saying Nick is right (and there seems to be a wide range of opinions on her about who did well) but he is an ex-MP and so may have a better understanding of how MPs look at these things. I thought his comment about Badenoch was interesting in that she seems to be looking to broaden her appeal. She almost certainly will benefit from the Con Home survey released today. Truss did enough tonight to probably stop the doubts but I don't see why Sunak would pick up so many votes as his performance tonight was pretty much like his performance on Friday.

    TT definitely looks out after tonight. The one I would question about is Penny M. I didn't think she was that great and her closing statement was a bit weak. I can see a few of her backers thinking that she will never get over the self-ID when it comes to the membership and, together with not that inspiring a performance, wondering should they switch.

    I think the only safe assumption I would make about this race at the moment is that TT will be out tomorrow.
    I'm assuming Sunak picks up some from the bleedage from Tugendhat and some from Mordaunt, though she picks ups enough elsewhere to still move forward slightly.
    As IshmaelZ says, if TT wants to make a clean sweep, he only really has two options. In that regards, I do wonder whether Badenoch's comment that 'we should move on from Brexit' was a pitch to some of his supporters who support the clean start agenda.
    This wasn't about who TT endorses though, it was about whether he will lose any support in advance of the vote and his defeat. If some MPs were backing him principally as a steady option, Sunak could pick those up. We know not all MPs backing a candidate will follow that candidate anyway.
    I don't think you can assume the Braverman vote will move en bloc to Truss as I don't think the ERG vote is as monolithic as made out (McVey and Davies were backing Hunt FFS). Plus, how many MPs in RW seats and not sitting on Francois' 31K majority really see Truss as the one who will keep them their seats?

    The MP electorate in this Tory contest is a hell of a lot different from the previous contests in terms of its composition etc.
    Not assuming all of Braverman vote goes across, hence why Truss only up 20. I also assume a few switchers from Mordaunt, though both are on the basis the MPs in question felt Truss was stronger tonight, as I did though those polled did not.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Hadn't come across Rishi's faux WW2 style video trumpeting his Brexit credentials. I get he needs something like this, but it is a bit try hard.

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1548712009130295297?cxt=HHwWgoC-ub3XkP4qAAAA

    I think that is rather funny. And always remember who the target audience is.
  • XipeXipe Posts: 47
    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    rkrkrk said:

    Truss looks value at current odds no? Supposedly a bit ahead of rishi in 1:1 contest and perhaps a bit more likely to pick up support than Mordaunt.

    What am I missing?

    I think you're right. (Full disclosure - I'm +86 on Truss, +5 on Sunak, +19 on Badenoch, -40 on Mordaunt.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    Bit like "operator".
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,332
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    A question for you, HYUFD. I skim through ConHome comments from time to time. What strikes me is the very high proportion opposed to net zero and, frankly, a bit climate change sceptic. Do you think that is why their surveys are coming out so strongly in favour of Badenoch, as she's the only candidate who's expressed real doubt about the timetable for net zero? Do the views of those who write comments coincide, at least to some degree, to those who respond to their surveys?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,273
    We watched the new Persuasion tonight so missed the debate. Did anyone press Sunak on Ukraine?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,087
    25 C at 10 in the evening !
  • eekeek Posts: 28,264

    Number of Liberal Democrat seats at next UK GE - William Hill
    (The Lib Dems won 8 seats at the last GE, on the new boundaries, according to Baxter’s sums.)

    Over 25 seats 4/7
    Over 40 seats 2/1
    Over 60 seats 13/2

    Under 25 seats is what because otherwise that’s a fool’s bet
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    moonshine said:

    Did all those saying Truss did better watch the same thing as me?! Does no one have anything to say about her praising the Bank of Japan for “keeping inflation low”? What a helmet. All those years round Cabinet and her grasp of economics is frighteningly poor.

    Wait.

    Who said that the BoJ did a great job keeping inflation low? That's a spectacularly moronic comment.
    That would be Liz Truss.
    "All we need to do is to copy Japan, and engineer a three decade long economic stagnation that sees debt-to-GDP swell to more than 250% of GDP. This, my friends, this is progress."
    Yes, but getting to deflation from the current position would be quite some feat!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,760
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piece of work

    "First Known Use of piece of work
    1713, in the meaning defined above"

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Good evening

    I have been readying for our trip to Scotland and the Caledonian canal and only caught the end of the debate

    Sunak seemed to be the best and I just find the rest very run of the mill

    While we are talking of hot weather, we lost a local 24 year old female paddle boarder in Conwy on Friday evening, notwithstanding all the efforts of the RNLI and the coastguard, my son and his colleagues rescued a father and son who had fallen out of their kayak and been in the sea for 40 minutes the night previously, and tonight they have been out to rescue a lilo floating out to sea with its occupant

    Indeed the coastguard are receiving numerous 999 calls at present, and people need to respect the sea and not put their lives at risk or the volunteer RNLI crews

    It's going to be rough for your son and his compatriots, as folks head for the water to beat the heat.

    Big problem in Pacific Northwest when we get heatwaves, as the water is generally VERY cold, both saltwater (North Pacific, straits & Puget Sound) and freshwater (glacier-fed rivers).
    Darwinism at its finest.

    And I don't buy the Don't endanger the RNLI line, it's what they are there for and if they don't like the heat, keeping out of the kitchen is a very real option.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552

    We watched the new Persuasion tonight so missed the debate. Did anyone press Sunak on Ukraine?

    Penny pressed him over defence spending.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,666

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    A question for you, HYUFD. I skim through ConHome comments from time to time. What strikes me is the very high proportion opposed to net zero and, frankly, a bit climate change sceptic. Do you think that is why their surveys are coming out so strongly in favour of Badenoch, as she's the only candidate who's expressed real doubt about the timetable for net zero? Do the views of those who write comments coincide, at least to some degree, to those who respond to their surveys?
    A fair amount I suspect, if Sunak or Mordaunt win I would expect some leakage on the right to Farage's RefUK though they also likely win back some voters from Labour and the LDs
  • XipeXipe Posts: 47
    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Is that icon photo from the Göbekli Tepe dig?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
    It derives from Shakespeare. "What a piece of work is a man"
    To stop America-bashing, a Scottish guy I know says 'He's some guy!' about people. It's neither a criticism nor a compliment, so however one replies 'yep, he's a dick' or 'yep, love him', the conversation can continue in that vein. You have to be quite lacking in confidence to make frequent use of such an opinionless opinion.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,332
    kle4 said:

    Hadn't come across Rishi's faux WW2 style video trumpeting his Brexit credentials. I get he needs something like this, but it is a bit try hard.

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1548712009130295297?cxt=HHwWgoC-ub3XkP4qAAAA

    That video is nauseating, it really is. Clever to get a nano-second snap of Truss backing remain in some debate, though.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    eek said:

    Number of Liberal Democrat seats at next UK GE - William Hill
    (The Lib Dems won 8 seats at the last GE, on the new boundaries, according to Baxter’s sums.)

    Over 25 seats 4/7
    Over 40 seats 2/1
    Over 60 seats 13/2

    Under 25 seats is what because otherwise that’s a fool’s bet
    It is a classic fool’s bet!

    Hills have form with these one-sided markets.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    I don't think any of the likely winners will terrify the opposition.

    Within a week of being in the spotlight the inexperienced candidates, Badenoch and Mordaunt, are unravelling faster than an unravelly thing. Truss has become (always was?) something of a joke. All 3 would wilt under a GE campaign unless they tried Boris's tactic of hiding in a fridge till the polls closed.

    TomT is pretty good but far too sensible and remainy to stand any sort of chance with the membership. The people, lest we forget, who chose IDS over Ken Clarke and should really never have been allowed anywhere near the final decision ever again.

    That leaves Sunak who will do OK but will be eminently beatable after 2 more years of economic gloom and doom.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Xipe said:

    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
    Sean sock puppetry? Oh yes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552
    moonshine said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FWIW prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 110 (+9)
    Mordaunt - 84 (+1)
    Truss - 89 (+25)
    Badenoch - 50 (+1)
    Tugendhat - 22 (-9)

    I reckon..

    Sunak 116 (+15)
    Mordaunt 100 (+17)
    Truss 86 (+22)
    Badenoch 54 (+5)

    Tom Tugs to bow out Monday morning.
    Counting out TT and KB who won’t get close. It has to be Mordaunt that wins by a process of elimination. Sunak can’t be trusted going into a recession. And Truss comes across as a less intelligent less electable version of Boris.

    Mordaunt is a very imperfect candidate but as HYUFD says, if she appoints good people than the country might be ok. She can be the apple pie and curves for the breakfast tv sofas.

    With Hunt as Chancellor (not Sunak!), Kemi as Chief Sec to Treasury, TT Foreign Sec, Wallace defence. And then some mug as Home. I struggle to find a job for Sunak because he doesn’t deserve the big jobs ahead of the others and he’s too savvy to do the Home Office. Might as well keep Javid where he is (was!). Education up for grabs in my cabinet if Sunak wants it.
    If PM gets PM, I wouldn't expect KB to get into the cabinet. Her attacks have been very personal.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,332
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    A question for you, HYUFD. I skim through ConHome comments from time to time. What strikes me is the very high proportion opposed to net zero and, frankly, a bit climate change sceptic. Do you think that is why their surveys are coming out so strongly in favour of Badenoch, as she's the only candidate who's expressed real doubt about the timetable for net zero? Do the views of those who write comments coincide, at least to some degree, to those who respond to their surveys?
    A fair amount I suspect, if Sunak or Mordaunt win I would expect some leakage on the right to Farage's RefUK though they also likely win back some voters from Labour and the LDs
    Thanks - ties in with what I thought.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081
    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    OllyT said:

    I don't think any of the likely winners will terrify the opposition.

    Within a week of being in the spotlight the inexperienced candidates, Badenoch and Mordaunt, are unravelling faster than an unravelly thing. Truss has become (always was?) something of a joke. All 3 would wilt under a GE campaign unless they tried Boris's tactic of hiding in a fridge till the polls closed.

    TomT is pretty good but far too sensible and remainy to stand any sort of chance with the membership. The people, lest we forget, who chose IDS over Ken Clarke and should really never have been allowed anywhere near the final decision ever again.

    That leaves Sunak who will do OK but will be eminently beatable after 2 more years of economic gloom and doom.

    Shhhh!
  • Xipe said:

    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
    My God you are such a knob.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    kinabalu said:

    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.

    Surely he can make both of them a massive offer.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,278
    JohnO said:

    Don't know how HYUFD feels, but my sense (certainly talking to folks on Friday in now super marginal Esher and Walton) is that Sunak can beat Truss. His Thatcherite fiscally responsible line will command a (grudging) respect from members.

    Not predicting that outcome yet, but the notion that Liz will be the inevitable victor is fanciful.

    PS And being on the same side as Dominic Raab is slightly perturbing... but needs must.

    It's very close between Rishi and Liz in the members at the moment but, as you and I know, the idea they're all bats is simply a caricature put around by our opponents.

    They want to win GEs just as the MPs do.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    25 C at 10 in the evening !

    With a south facing house we have invested in blackout material and ducktape for the windows
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
    It derives from Shakespeare. "What a piece of work is a man"
    It really doesn't

    What piece of work is a man, how noble in reason,
    how infinite in faculties, in form and moving,
    how express and admirable in action, how like an angel in apprehension,
    how like a god!

    meaning, what an excellent piece of work, not "what a piece of shit".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    OllyT said:

    I don't think any of the likely winners will terrify the opposition.

    Within a week of being in the spotlight the inexperienced candidates, Badenoch and Mordaunt, are unravelling faster than an unravelly thing. Truss has become (always was?) something of a joke. All 3 would wilt under a GE campaign unless they tried Boris's tactic of hiding in a fridge till the polls closed.

    TomT is pretty good but far too sensible and remainy to stand any sort of chance with the membership. The people, lest we forget, who chose IDS over Ken Clarke and should really never have been allowed anywhere near the final decision ever again.

    That leaves Sunak who will do OK but will be eminently beatable after 2 more years of economic gloom and doom.

    I suspect Mordaunt would be facing a leadership election by this time next year if she wins.

    You read it here first folks.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,497
    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piece of work

    "First Known Use of piece of work
    1713, in the meaning defined above"

    Would be fab if they quoted or linked to the passage they claim to be referring to.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,278

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    I strongly advise anyone against using Betway. They have closed down any way of contacting them, live chat, telephone or email, and regularly lose bets or fail to honour them. Google their customer service record.

    I think they're crooks. Don't go there.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    kinabalu said:

    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.

    I tend to agree. Tommy Tug End may not actually endorse him but that's the natural home of most of hia supporters. Some of Kemi's will go to Truss, but some fake ones will just go home to Sunak.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
    It derives from Shakespeare. "What a piece of work is a man"
    To stop America-bashing, a Scottish guy I know says 'He's some guy!' about people. It's neither a criticism nor a compliment, so however one replies 'yep, he's a dick' or 'yep, love him', the conversation can continue in that vein. You have to be quite lacking in confidence to make frequent use of such an opinionless opinion.
    Or very canny to allow others to reveal their own views before sharing your own?

    Avoids a LOT of unnecessary unpleasantness. Widely used by savvy salespeople including politicos.
  • XipeXipe Posts: 47

    Xipe said:

    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
    My God you are such a knob.
    I'm not entirely sure what a humble ethnographer of pre-Columbian cultures has done - to deserve such barbed and bitter contumely after three comments
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    I don't know what he was thinking. Predictable and easy to counter.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,278
    I think Sunak's plan is to get boosted by Kemi (helped by Lannister Gove) and Tugendhat and then ensure he faces off Penny Mordaunt in the member's vote, who he'll expose.

    I expect her odds to continually erode but she'll be held up for a time by the prospect of her place in the final.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    BBC News opens with a group of people doing a 1/2 marathon today in the heat in Richmond.

    Are these people literally mad?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    Bit like "operator".
    I watched Donnie Brasco the other night. Not very good though shows Depp was quite a good actor at one time, but has a long disquisition about how "Forget about it" means I strongly agree or I strongly disagree, depending on context.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Johnson next permanent role

    Ambassador to USA 7/1
    Editor of Evening Standard 10/1
    Next host of Countdown 10/1
    Mayor of London 16/1
    Staffer for Donald Trump 33/1
    Speaker 50/1
    Classics master at Eton 50/1
    Ambassador to the EU 80/1
    Commissioner for Standards in Public Life 100/1
    Controller of Channel 4 100/1
    Interior designer 250/1
    500 bar

    Betway

    I strongly advise anyone against using Betway. They have closed down any way of contacting them, live chat, telephone or email, and regularly lose bets or fail to honour them. Google their customer service record.

    I think they're crooks. Don't go there.
    Thanks for the heads up, but I know that all bookies are crooks. Victor Chandler immediately closed my account when I made a killing at the 2007 Scottish GE. Hills and PP reduced my max stake to pennies after same election.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    I don't know what he was thinking. Predictable and easy to counter.
    That was a jaw droppingly shit question by Sunak.

    This man cannot be Prime Minister
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384

    BBC News opens with a group of people doing a 1/2 marathon today in the heat in Richmond.

    Are these people literally mad?

    How do you think Kenyans train?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    William Shakespeare was an American?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316

    BBC News opens with a group of people doing a 1/2 marathon today in the heat in Richmond.

    Are these people literally mad?

    It would have been morning so before the worst heat.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    BBC News opens with a group of people doing a 1/2 marathon today in the heat in Richmond.

    Are these people literally mad?

    How do you think Kenyans train?
    What meaning do you attach to "acclimatised"?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
    It derives from Shakespeare. "What a piece of work is a man"
    To stop America-bashing, a Scottish guy I know says 'He's some guy!' about people. It's neither a criticism nor a compliment, so however one replies 'yep, he's a dick' or 'yep, love him', the conversation can continue in that vein. You have to be quite lacking in confidence to make frequent use of such an opinionless opinion.
    Or very canny to allow others to reveal their own views before sharing your own?

    Avoids a LOT of unnecessary unpleasantness. Widely used by savvy salespeople including politicos.
    Depends who you're speaking to. I'm not going to venture an opinion of my own if someone tries that on me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,845
    edited July 2022

    JohnO said:

    Don't know how HYUFD feels, but my sense (certainly talking to folks on Friday in now super marginal Esher and Walton) is that Sunak can beat Truss. His Thatcherite fiscally responsible line will command a (grudging) respect from members.

    Not predicting that outcome yet, but the notion that Liz will be the inevitable victor is fanciful.

    PS And being on the same side as Dominic Raab is slightly perturbing... but needs must.

    It's very close between Rishi and Liz in the members at the moment but, as you and I know, the idea they're all bats is simply a caricature put around by our opponents.

    They want to win GEs just as the MPs do.
    Yes, but choosing Truss and then seeing her pay off her debts with the likes of Mogg and Dorries returning to their old jobs isn’t going to help much. Both Tories and the wider electorate are expecting a change of style.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,332
    edited July 2022
    kinabalu said:

    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.

    I agree, and I expect Sunak to have a big lead over Truss in the final MPs ballot, with Mordaunt fading.

    Then it's down to the members, just as it was for us in Labour all those years ago. The sensible centre-leftism of Cooper or Burnham, or the socialist zealotry of our Jezza? Will Tory members go for the zealotry of Truss or stick with Sunak? 50:50 I reckon.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,719

    Xipe said:

    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
    My God you are such a knob.
    https://kimbellart.org/collection/ap-197939

    "Xipe Totec, the Aztec god of spring and regeneration, appears in many Mesoamerican cults. A fertility deity, Xipe Totec vividly conveys the concept of death and rebirth by wearing the flayed skin of a sacrificial victim."
  • XipeXipe Posts: 47
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    I don't know what he was thinking. Predictable and easy to counter.
    That was a jaw droppingly shit question by Sunak.

    This man cannot be Prime Minister
    Not sure you can dismiss him because of one misfired question

    Fact is the Tories have an unpalatable choice of highly flawed candidates, but one will have to do. Their only solace is that the winner is facing an equally uninspiring Labour leader

    I reckon Mordaunt or Sunak could beat Starmer, but probably won't due to the overwhelming desire for a change and economic headwinds. Badenoch (too young and callow), Tugendhat (too lightweight and meaningless) and Truss (too stilted and bonkers) would pretty much guarantee defeat, possibly a calamitous defeat
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,481
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    Would that not doom him among members though? It'd be a bit obvious.
    Cameron lent a few MPs to Davis in 2005 in the last round to knock out Fox, IDS lent a few MPs to Clarke in 2001 to knock out Portillo, Boris likely lent a few to Hunt in 2019 to knock out Gove, did not stop any of them winning the membership vote
    That sort of thing probably won't happen this time because it's probably going to be close between the final 3 and so none of them can afford to loan votes to other candidates.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,273
    kinabalu said:

    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.

    What do you mean by a big lead? Even if he does quite well from here he will struggle to get more than 40% of the MPs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    I don't know what he was thinking. Predictable and easy to counter.
    That was a jaw droppingly shit question by Sunak.

    This man cannot be Prime Minister
    None of them can.
    But one of them will.
    You decide.
    Er. No you don't.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,845
    Xipe said:

    Xipe said:

    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
    My God you are such a knob.
    I'm not entirely sure what a humble ethnographer of pre-Columbian cultures has done - to deserve such barbed and bitter contumely after three comments
    He was making you wait.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    I don't know what he was thinking. Predictable and easy to counter.
    That was a jaw droppingly shit question by Sunak.

    This man cannot be Prime Minister
    Liz Truss spent her entire education under Tory governments. So if it was shit we know who was running the shitshow.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342

    I think Sunak's plan is to get boosted by Kemi (helped by Lannister Gove) and Tugendhat and then ensure he faces off Penny Mordaunt in the member's vote, who he'll expose.

    I expect her odds to continually erode but she'll be held up for a time by the prospect of her place in the final.

    It would be quite delicious if he spider webs her into the final two because he thinks he's wounded her fatally and then she turns around and whoops him with the members.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    BBC News opens with a group of people doing a 1/2 marathon today in the heat in Richmond.

    Are these people literally mad?

    How do you think Kenyans train?
    What meaning do you attach to "acclimatised"?
    Yes. I was being flippant.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081

    kinabalu said:

    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.

    Surely he can make both of them a massive offer.
    This made me giggle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,278

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    Truss was much better tonight. That and her Yorkshire straight talking and lack of polish stuff.

    It should be enough to keep her ahead of Badenoch.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    Hurrah. Can open the window. Cooler out than in. Just.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342

    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    I don't know what he was thinking. Predictable and easy to counter.
    That was a jaw droppingly shit question by Sunak.

    This man cannot be Prime Minister
    Liz Truss spent her entire education under Tory governments. So if it was shit we know who was running the shitshow.
    Labour councils and education authorities.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
    It derives from Shakespeare. "What a piece of work is a man"
    To stop America-bashing, a Scottish guy I know says 'He's some guy!' about people. It's neither a criticism nor a compliment, so however one replies 'yep, he's a dick' or 'yep, love him', the conversation can continue in that vein. You have to be quite lacking in confidence to make frequent use of such an opinionless opinion.
    Or very canny to allow others to reveal their own views before sharing your own?

    Avoids a LOT of unnecessary unpleasantness. Widely used by savvy salespeople including politicos.
    Depends who you're speaking to. I'm not going to venture an opinion of my own if someone tries that on me.
    You could give an equally ambiguous response. Then see how long the ping-pong match goes on!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    William Shakespeare was an American?

    Not originally, but he has definitely taken a one way trip to some undiscover'd country.
    from where no traveller returns
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,666
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    Would that not doom him among members though? It'd be a bit obvious.
    Cameron lent a few MPs to Davis in 2005 in the last round to knock out Fox, IDS lent a few MPs to Clarke in 2001 to knock out Portillo, Boris likely lent a few to Hunt in 2019 to knock out Gove, did not stop any of them winning the membership vote
    That sort of thing probably won't happen this time because it's probably going to be close between the final 3 and so none of them can afford to loan votes to other candidates.
    If Sunak has a clear lead in the penultimate round he will lend votes to Mordaunt, almost guaranteed.

    Remember Gavin Williamson is managing Sunak's campaign with MPs and that is the kind of thing he will be plotting to ensure Sunak has knocked out Truss and Badenoch before the membership vote
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    Xipe said:

    Xipe said:

    Farooq said:

    Xipe said:

    We may see a really important UK weather record broken in the next two days - but not (just) the obvious highest temp ever, instead: the record highest minimum

    At present that is 23.9 from August 2003, in Brighton

    London tomorrow is not expected to go below 24C: absolutely tropical weather



    Hello Leon. Fuck off.
    Is this normal on Political Betting?
    My God you are such a knob.
    I'm not entirely sure what a humble ethnographer of pre-Columbian cultures has done - to deserve such barbed and bitter contumely after three comments
    Presumably it will be revealed that the "ethnography" is a 19-year old Venezuelan émigré girlfriend in London.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    Would that not doom him among members though? It'd be a bit obvious.
    Cameron lent a few MPs to Davis in 2005 in the last round to knock out Fox, IDS lent a few MPs to Clarke in 2001 to knock out Portillo, Boris likely lent a few to Hunt in 2019 to knock out Gove, did not stop any of them winning the membership vote
    That sort of thing probably won't happen this time because it's probably going to be close between the final 3 and so none of them can afford to loan votes to other candidates.
    Yeah. It can still be a three-way 119.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Tropical nights (where minimum temperature never drops below 20 degrees) are common in Sweden. We usually have at least a fortnight of them, sometimes nearly 2 months.

    You get used to them, and although unpleasant they can be mitigated. We have a heat pump, which although not an A/C is still an effective ventilation system, especially when set to cooling mode.

    It helps of course that we have so many opportunities to bathe in lakes, rivers or sea. A refreshing dip first thing in the morning or late in the evening does wonders for body and soul.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,273
    edited July 2022
    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    I always said Badenoch was overrated and way too inexperienced.

    No surprise Labour are using her responses in tonight's debates in their attack ads.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1548751253068562433

    Or maybe they don't like the idea of the Conservatives having a black female PM.

    You really are a piece of work, throwing around groundless accusations of racism.
    Linguistic oddity, that. "Nasty piece of work" used to be the expression, pow itself being neutral and good, bad and indifferent pieces of work being on the cards.
    I think it's American, most of the stupid versions of phrases come from there.

    'Tell me about it' is the American version of the British - 'Don't tell me about it', which makes much more sense, but you don't hear any more. 'I could care less' is another American one.
    It derives from Shakespeare. "What a piece of work is a man"
    It really doesn't

    What piece of work is a man, how noble in reason,
    how infinite in faculties, in form and moving,
    how express and admirable in action, how like an angel in apprehension,
    how like a god!

    meaning, what an excellent piece of work, not "what a piece of shit".
    Yes, the meaning is "something remarkable" in the original text and has been co-opted over the centuries to mean something extraordinary for positive or negative reasons, and now mainly meaning something negative.
    Words (and phrases) do this. "Wow" has recently come to mean something less awesome and more awful in some uses. Other times it can go the other way (see the evolution of "sick" from negative to positive in some uses).
    When my grandad spent some weeks keeping me company in hospital when my broken leg was in traction some 33 or so years ago, we had a long discussion about the changing meaning of the word "wicked". I fear this may have changed meaning again, but I haven't had the opportunity to recently question a young person about it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,481
    edited July 2022

    kinabalu said:

    I'll risk a prediction - Sunak will get more MPs than people think on the elimination of TT and KB. He'll have a big lead.

    What do you mean by a big lead? Even if he does quite well from here he will struggle to get more than 40% of the MPs.
    A big lead in this contest would be about 20 votes more than any other candidate.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,845
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just to stick my neck out on prediction again.

    Tory contest prediction 17 July

    So, second round was:

    Sunak - 101
    Mordaunt - 83
    Truss - 64
    Badenoch - 49
    Tugendhat - 32
    Braverman - 27

    Prediction for the next round:

    Sunak - 116 (+13)
    Mordaunt - 88 (+5)
    Truss - 84 (+20)
    Badenoch - 45 (-4)
    Tugendhat - 25 (-7)

    Penny loses the big mo but just retains her place. Badenoch and Tom run out of steam.

    Tom then endorses Mordaunt, and she slightly increases her lead over Truss.

    Badenoch's support then splits mostly for Truss and some for Sunak, putting Sunak and Truss in the final two by a gnat's whisker.

    Prediction for the fourth round:

    Sunak - 119 (+6)
    Mordaunt - 104 (+16)
    Truss - 92 (+8)
    Badenoch - 40 (-5)

    Prediction for the final round:

    Sunak - 133 (+14)
    Mordaunt - 110 (+6)
    Truss - 112 (+20)

    On those figures Sunak can easily lend Mordaunt 5 to 10 MPs to knock out Truss in the final round and still top the poll
    Would that not doom him among members though? It'd be a bit obvious.
    Cameron lent a few MPs to Davis in 2005 in the last round to knock out Fox, IDS lent a few MPs to Clarke in 2001 to knock out Portillo, Boris likely lent a few to Hunt in 2019 to knock out Gove, did not stop any of them winning the membership vote
    That sort of thing probably won't happen this time because it's probably going to be close between the final 3 and so none of them can afford to loan votes to other candidates.
    If Sunak has a clear lead in the penultimate round he will lend votes to Mordaunt, almost guaranteed
    He’ll be standing tall after his solid performances in the debates so far.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Sunak comes out of this exchange with Truss really badly.

    https://twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1548754814263128064

    Truss was much better tonight. That and her Yorkshire straight talking and lack of polish stuff.

    It should be enough to keep her ahead of Badenoch.
    Agreed on that. FYI, Betfair moving around a bit. Odds now

    Sunak 2.46
    Mordaunt 3.35
    Truss 4.6
    Badenoch 11
This discussion has been closed.