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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498

    That James O’Brien rant posted upthread is wrong about Kemi and the Rishi-as-generation-game-contestant metaphor doesn’t really work, but he’s right overall —— Brexit is well past it’s apogee and well into it’s rotting stage.

    Yes and no. Whilst decay is creeping in, and it's all rather whiffy, it's also at the "not in front of the children grandparents" stage where alternatives can't (yet) be discussed. That's going to take 10-15 years to resolve itself, unfortunately.
    To resolve, sure.
    But Brexit as a governing ideology will as dead as the Jacobites come 2025.
    That sounds meaningless to me. If 'Brexit' is the rejection of political integration, it can't die unless people wholly embrace the EU and decide the answer to our problems is to ditch the pound and give up on any alternative project.

    It seems more likely that a new generation of politicians, such as Kemi Badenoch or her equivalent on the left, will come along and make the whole debate about EU membership look irrelevant.
    I think he means that Brexit was pointless, which it was. Nonetheless, for whatever reason it has happened and we have to get on with it. Right wingers will carry on droning on about it until enough people say very loudly "nobody cares".
    The reason there is an ongoing debate is that there's still a substantial number of people who want to reverse it. It's hypocritical for anyone who forms part of that group to complain about the other side "droning on about it".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!

    Andrea Leadsom to believe she would be Chancellor under a Penny government.

    Help! This surely cannot be true??
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Stocky said:

    The Leadsom rumour is obviously emanating from the Rishi camp.

    Yes. I'd be surprised and disappointed if Mordaunt made Leadson CoE.
    They go back a long way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    Stocky said:

    The Leadsom rumour is obviously emanating from the Rishi camp.

    Yes. I'd be surprised and disappointed if Mordaunt made Leadson CoE.
    I don't think I'd be able to feel surprise and disappointment over the blind panic I'd be feeling.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038

    That James O’Brien rant posted upthread is wrong about Kemi and the Rishi-as-generation-game-contestant metaphor doesn’t really work, but he’s right overall —— Brexit is well past it’s apogee and well into it’s rotting stage.

    Yes and no. Whilst decay is creeping in, and it's all rather whiffy, it's also at the "not in front of the children grandparents" stage where alternatives can't (yet) be discussed. That's going to take 10-15 years to resolve itself, unfortunately.
    To resolve, sure.
    But Brexit as a governing ideology will as dead as the Jacobites come 2025.
    That sounds meaningless to me. If 'Brexit' is the rejection of political integration, it can't die unless people wholly embrace the EU and decide the answer to our problems is to ditch the pound and give up on any alternative project.

    It seems more likely that a new generation of politicians, such as Kemi Badenoch or her equivalent on the left, will come along and make the whole debate about EU membership look irrelevant.
    I think there's truth in that: EU membership is unlikely to be a serious proposition in any of our lifetimes.

    But that doesn't stop the nature of our relationship with the EU being a perpetual scab.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    One thing I have noticed is the increasing frequency of British people in very nice cars delivering my Amazon packages. I am guessing via Flex system because they need some cash to make the payments on the motor.

    I watched someone in a two-seater rear wheel drive BMW convertible, with essentially no boot, trying to deliver packages round a very hilly housing scheme in the middle of winter 2021.

    Practical, it did not look.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    David Davis might be the right person if you want the Treasury to run rings around the Chancellor and pursue their own agenda.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191
    Stocky said:

    The Leadsom rumour is obviously emanating from the Rishi camp.

    Yes. I'd be surprised and disappointed if Mordaunt made Leadson CoE.
    But someone has to do it.

    It can't be Rishi, because of the fiscal prudence thing. And sticking by Boris too long. And being Cummings's man in Downing Street.

    And most of the rest of them are politically mad, innumerate or both.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    David Davis might be the right person if you want the Treasury to run rings around the Chancellor and pursue their own agenda.
    They do that anyway, look at HS2. Or schools.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited July 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    With Rees Mogg, Braverman, Dorries, Francois, Steve Baker and IDS behind her, Truss is now clearly the candidate of the ERG. I would expect Priti Patel to declare for Truss too before the last ballot.

    With Badenoch now likely eliminated early next week once Braverman voters get behind Truss (and with most Tugenhadt voters likely going to Sunak or Mordaunt), Truss could still make the last 2 if she gets virtually all Badenoch backing MPs behind her in the final ballot
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    Only until he resigns to force a by-election.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498

    Stocky said:

    The Leadsom rumour is obviously emanating from the Rishi camp.

    Yes. I'd be surprised and disappointed if Mordaunt made Leadson CoE.
    But someone has to do it.

    It can't be Rishi, because of the fiscal prudence thing. And sticking by Boris too long. And being Cummings's man in Downing Street.

    And most of the rest of them are politically mad, innumerate or both.
    Theresa May?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022

    One thing I have noticed is the increasing frequency of British people in very nice cars delivering my Amazon packages. I am guessing via Flex system because they need some cash to make the payments on the motor.

    I watched someone in a two-seater rear wheel drive BMW convertible, with essentially no boot, trying to deliver packages round a very hilly housing scheme in the middle of winter 2021.

    Practical, it did not look.
    Past couple of weeks I have had blokes in a BMW, Merc and Audi....no one buys ones of those to hop from door to door delivering Amazon packages.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    David Davis might be the right person if you want the Treasury to run rings around the Chancellor and pursue their own agenda.
    Only Gove has the gumption to take on Treasury, sadly.

    Osborn was the last credible Chancellor. Six years ago now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    With Mogg, Braverman, Dorries, Francois, Steve Baker and IDS behind her, Truss is now clearly the candidate of the ERG.

    With Badenoch now likely eliminated early next week once Braverman voters get behind Truss (and with most Tugenhadt voters likely going to Sunak or Mordaunt), Truss could still make the last 2 if she gets virtually all Badenoch backing MPs behind her in the final ballot
    Facing whom? I struggle to see a path where Sunak doesn't make the runoff (which means he's going to come third next week...)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    If that is true then, despite a profoundly unimpressive launch, she has won the day in the end.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,734

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    I think it's really good news for her. Braverman was a continuity ghast of the night.
  • Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    If that is true then, despite a profoundly unimpressive launch, she has won the day in the end.
    What this means is that Truss has agreed to come out of the ECHR.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    Stocky said:

    The Leadsom rumour is obviously emanating from the Rishi camp.

    Yes. I'd be surprised and disappointed if Mordaunt made Leadsom CoE.
    Whoever came up with that suggestion thought of the most risible candidate possible without their being totally implausible. They would've suggested that Mordaunt was willing to install Michael Fabricant in No.11 if they thought they could get away with it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    That's because they read it on pb.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    Is that exclusive true I wonder?

    Braverman told Sky news earlier she would 'take account' that Truss voted Remain in 2016.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282
    Betrayal by Braverman.

    Truss must have offered her something.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    Truss vs Mordor will be an absolutely fascinating contest before the members!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    With Rees Mogg, Braverman, Dorries, Francois, Steve Baker and IDS behind her, Truss is now clearly the candidate of the ERG. I would expect Priti Patel to declare for Truss too before the last ballot.

    With Badenoch now likely eliminated early next week once Braverman voters get behind Truss (and with most Tugenhadt voters likely going to Sunak or Mordaunt), Truss could still make the last 2 if she gets virtually all Badenoch backing MPs behind her in the final ballot
    She wont get all the Badenoch MPs.

    Looking like Sunak v Penny to me tonight.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    He's 73.
    Does he want that hassle?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Betrayal by Braverman.

    Truss must have offered her something.

    Why betrayal?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    That James O’Brien rant posted upthread is wrong about Kemi and the Rishi-as-generation-game-contestant metaphor doesn’t really work, but he’s right overall —— Brexit is well past it’s apogee and well into it’s rotting stage.

    Yes and no. Whilst decay is creeping in, and it's all rather whiffy, it's also at the "not in front of the children grandparents" stage where alternatives can't (yet) be discussed. That's going to take 10-15 years to resolve itself, unfortunately.
    To resolve, sure.
    But Brexit as a governing ideology will as dead as the Jacobites come 2025.
    That sounds meaningless to me. If 'Brexit' is the rejection of political integration, it can't die unless people wholly embrace the EU and decide the answer to our problems is to ditch the pound and give up on any alternative project.

    It seems more likely that a new generation of politicians, such as Kemi Badenoch or her equivalent on the left, will come along and make the whole debate about EU membership look irrelevant.
    I think he means that Brexit was pointless, which it was. Nonetheless, for whatever reason it has happened and we have to get on with it. Right wingers will carry on droning on about it until enough people say very loudly "nobody cares".
    The reason there is an ongoing debate is that there's still a substantial number of people who want to reverse it. It's hypocritical for anyone who forms part of that group to complain about the other side "droning on about it".
    OK, I have stopped laughing at you using the hypocritical word there Paul (or should I call you Saul )

    I am certainly not in favour of reversing it. My main objection to it was that it was divisive unnecessary and without any merit. Going through a further divisive referendum would not be in the country's interest unless there were indications of a huge groundswell of opinion in that direction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    He's 73.
    Does he want that hassle?
    He is 6 years younger than the President of the USA
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    He's 73.
    Does he want that hassle?
    To get a higher office than Gove managed and show up Johnson and Cummings?

    Hell yes.

    But he won't get it.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Don't jump to conclusions. Quite apart from anything else, Braverman can't simply deliver all her supporters as a bloc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Depends where Tugenhadt voters go and if Truss can pick up all Badenoch voters or some go to Mordaunt, could even be Truss v Mordaunt
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Great news for Labour if Truss wins but a tragedy for the country who will have an ERG puppet in no 10 who will start a trade war with the EU and continue the horrible divisive politics of the Johnson years .
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    It looks like London is going to shit the bed on Monday.

    Not sure I want to risk train travel with those temperatures.
    If it still looks like 38-40C on Monday-Tuesday by, say, Saturday noon, then I would cancel any train travel

    If a train breaks down in 40C heat, and the aircon fails (and lots of stuff will fail in that heat), it could be genuinely nasty. You will cook, almost literally

    Of course this MAY WELL NOT HAPPEN, but we are now within 5 days of this and the models are still pumping out these scary temps
    This reminds me of “this MAY WELL NOT HAPPEN but MILLIONS of Brits are going to DIE of Covid!”
    Well, 200,000 have. An order of magnitude more than the 20,000 figure touted at one stage early in the first wave.

    I think that qualifies as half right as far as predictions go.
    No, really it doesn’t.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282
    rcs1000 said:

    That James O’Brien rant posted upthread is wrong about Kemi and the Rishi-as-generation-game-contestant metaphor doesn’t really work, but he’s right overall —— Brexit is well past it’s apogee and well into it’s rotting stage.

    Yes and no. Whilst decay is creeping in, and it's all rather whiffy, it's also at the "not in front of the children grandparents" stage where alternatives can't (yet) be discussed. That's going to take 10-15 years to resolve itself, unfortunately.
    To resolve, sure.
    But Brexit as a governing ideology will as dead as the Jacobites come 2025.
    That sounds meaningless to me. If 'Brexit' is the rejection of political integration, it can't die unless people wholly embrace the EU and decide the answer to our problems is to ditch the pound and give up on any alternative project.

    It seems more likely that a new generation of politicians, such as Kemi Badenoch or her equivalent on the left, will come along and make the whole debate about EU membership look irrelevant.
    I think there's truth in that: EU membership is unlikely to be a serious proposition in any of our lifetimes.

    But that doesn't stop the nature of our relationship with the EU being a perpetual scab.
    I really struggle to give a toss about the EU. We'd have exactly the same problems (just look at how well they're doing against the Dollar) as well as some new ones, in exchange for some frictional trading benefits. It's provide no solutions to our long-term domestic challenges and cause a lot of political federalist depression and malaise.

    Nah. It's over. Out and stay out.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    He's 73.
    Does he want that hassle?
    He is 6 years younger than the President of the USA
    Everyone is younger than the President of the USA. FFS, there have been Popes that are more sprightly.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Truss still can’t make it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    From one batshit candidate to another…
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,276
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    It looks like London is going to shit the bed on Monday.

    Not sure I want to risk train travel with those temperatures.
    If it still looks like 38-40C on Monday-Tuesday by, say, Saturday noon, then I would cancel any train travel

    If a train breaks down in 40C heat, and the aircon fails (and lots of stuff will fail in that heat), it could be genuinely nasty. You will cook, almost literally

    Of course this MAY WELL NOT HAPPEN, but we are now within 5 days of this and the models are still pumping out these scary temps

    This reminds me of “this MAY WELL NOT
    HAPPEN but MILLIONS of Brits are going to DIE of Covid!”
    Except in this case we are now odds on 38C+ and around 40% likely to hit 40C.

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    "Some models"
    Do you doubt this?
    Ok. Please just tell me. Why are the Met Office wrong on this?
    They're not wrong, just different. Because the Met make their predictions by combining their own and various other models - GFS, ECM, GEFS, etc

    Think of, say, GFS (probably the most influential model) as the raw data. To get from there to the MetOffice prediction is as much an art as a science: like taking raw ingredients and cooking

    But the raw data is extremely important (as any chef knows). GFS is predicting, in many of the multiple runs it does every six hours, 40C+ two days running for large parts of England/Wales

    It's not outlandish. My Meteo WeatherPro app on my iPhone, which is normally pretty reliable and unhysterical, is predicting 39C for London on Tuesday. That's the all time UK record broken
    Gfs is only the most ‘influential’ because it runs every 6 hours. It’s usually third in the list
    for accuracy.

    Your ap is just linking raw model data. It may
    well be gfs data.
    Absolutely, and it runs to 384hours and provides lots of free data.

    But GFS is far from an outlier on this heatwave. ECMWF, the most consistently accurate model, has been warmer and more settled than GFs throughout the run up. Far fewer cool outliers. And UKMet, the second
    most accurate, has been hot hot hot.

    The UKV and Mogreps which are localised versions of those global models are both showing 39-41C temperatures.

    As a model run, or one of the ensemble members?
    Model run, though last I saw was 00z for Mogreps.

    All major models have upper air at 22-23C in their op runs (a couple are a tad higher) and the ensemble means are the same. That equates to 39-40 C in good conditions.

    You seem consistently very keen on the idea this will be a non event. I recall you were going to eat you hat if we got to 36C.
    Where do you look at the Mogreps data? I didn't think the Met Office gave that away for free.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498
    pigeon said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Don't jump to conclusions. Quite apart from anything else, Braverman can't simply deliver all her supporters as a bloc.
    It would be more significant if Steve Baker backed Truss.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    From one batshit candidate to another…
    The baton of batshit.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    Truss still can’t make it.

    That's what he said...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Even England can't screw it up from here....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Henry Zeffman
    @hzeffman
    ·
    1h
    Excl: Andrea Leadsom would be Penny Mordaunt's chancellor if she succeeds Boris Johnson, Conservative MPs believe

    Eeeeeeeek
    I suspect she is more likely to be the Deputy PM under Mordaunt.

    But who knows. None of her declared supporters jumps out at me as the obvs CoE person.

    Penny will need a heavyweight given her inexperience. Step forward Rishi Sunak!
    David Davis more likely
    He's 73.
    Does he want that hassle?
    He is 6 years younger than the President of the USA
    Well there you go then.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    pigeon said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Don't jump to conclusions. Quite apart from anything else, Braverman can't simply deliver all her supporters as a bloc.
    It would be more significant if Steve Baker backed Truss.
    Steve Baker is about the only Brexiteer in parliament with a brain.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    HYUFD said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Depends where Tugenhadt voters go and if Truss can pick up all Badenoch voters or some go to Mordaunt, could even be Truss v Mordaunt
    My betting account would be very happy with that.

    But I do have to keep reminding myself that you were the one insisting that the clown wasn’t for deposing….
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    It looks like London is going to shit the bed on Monday.

    Not sure I want to risk train travel with those temperatures.
    If it still looks like 38-40C on Monday-Tuesday by, say, Saturday noon, then I would cancel any train travel

    If a train breaks down in 40C heat, and the aircon fails (and lots of stuff will fail in that heat), it could be genuinely nasty. You will cook, almost literally

    Of course this MAY WELL NOT HAPPEN, but we are now within 5 days of this and the models are still pumping out these scary temps

    This reminds me of “this MAY WELL NOT
    HAPPEN but MILLIONS of Brits are going to DIE of Covid!”
    Except in this case we are now odds on 38C+ and around 40% likely to hit 40C.

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    "Some models"
    Do you doubt this?
    Ok. Please just tell me. Why are the Met Office wrong on this?
    They're not wrong, just different. Because the Met make their predictions by combining their own and various other models - GFS, ECM, GEFS, etc

    Think of, say, GFS (probably the most influential model) as the raw data. To get from there to the MetOffice prediction is as much an art as a science: like taking raw ingredients and cooking

    But the raw data is extremely important (as any chef knows). GFS is predicting, in many of the multiple runs it does every six hours, 40C+ two days running for large parts of England/Wales

    It's not outlandish. My Meteo WeatherPro app on my iPhone, which is normally pretty reliable and unhysterical, is predicting 39C for London on Tuesday. That's the all time UK record broken
    Gfs is only the most ‘influential’ because it runs every 6 hours. It’s usually third in the list
    for accuracy.

    Your ap is just linking raw model data. It may
    well be gfs data.
    Absolutely, and it runs to 384hours and provides lots of free data.

    But GFS is far from an outlier on this heatwave. ECMWF, the most consistently accurate model, has been warmer and more settled than GFs throughout the run up. Far fewer cool outliers. And UKMet, the second
    most accurate, has been hot hot hot.

    The UKV and Mogreps which are localised versions of those global models are both showing 39-41C temperatures.

    As a model run, or one of the ensemble members?
    Model run, though last I saw was 00z for Mogreps.

    All major models have upper air at 22-23C in their op runs (a couple are a tad higher) and the ensemble means are the same. That equates to 39-40 C in good conditions.


    You seem consistently very keen on the idea
    this will be a non event. I recall you were
    going to eat you hat if we got to 36C.


    No, I said hat dinner at 40, not 36. And I’m not
    downplaying what is looking an extreme
    event, albeit likely short lived. Over on
    netweather something described it as perfect
    conditions for this to happen.

    We may well get a record. We may get over
    40, but I stand by my comments re models,
    and 7 day predictions.
    I must apologise for mistaken identity. Turns out it was Andy JS who made the hat 36 promise:

    “Andy_JS Posts: 17,655
    July 9

    If it reaches more than 36 degrees anywhere in the UK this summer I'll eat my hat”

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    pigeon said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Don't jump to conclusions. Quite apart from anything else, Braverman can't simply deliver all her supporters as a bloc.
    It would be more significant if Steve Baker backed Truss.
    Steve Baker is about the only Brexiteer in parliament with a brain.
    No, he’s about the only one with integrity.
    Brains don’t come into it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    You should come up to the Lakes my darling. The weather is gloriously pleasant: sunny but comfortable. (PS Have sent you a VM.)

    I did not realise that the TiT slogan was a spoof. Apologies. I wrote this at 5 am as I did not sleep last night and only updated this evening. Have been out all day.

    I am allergic to liars, I'm afraid. Penny did not impress me during the referendum campaign and nothing I have seen since has changed my mind.

    But, tbh, none of them are really talking about the stuff that matters to voters.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited July 2022
    It's the only possible move if the "Right" (parentheses because there is more than one faction), wants a chance of a candidate in the final two.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282

    Betrayal by Braverman.

    Truss must have offered her something.

    Why betrayal?
    She should back Kemi and has been arm in arm with her.

    Truss is a nutcase. I'd rather have Sunak.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,276

    One thing I have noticed is the increasing frequency of British people in very nice cars delivering my Amazon packages. I am guessing via Flex system because they need some cash to make the payments on the motor.

    This might also explain why the quality of Hermes deliveries have improved.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    You should come up to the Lakes my darling. The weather is gloriously pleasant: sunny but comfortable.

    I did not realise that the TiT slogan was a spoof. Apologies. I wrote this at 5 am as I did not sleep last night and only updated this evening. Have been out all day.

    I am allergic to liars, I'm afraid. Penny did not impress me during the referendum campaign and nothing I have seen since has changed my mind.

    But, tbh, none of them are really talking about the stuff that matters to voters.
    Is that because you would prefer a Starmer administration?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    Not good for Badenoch.
    With Rees Mogg, Braverman, Dorries, Francois, Steve Baker and IDS behind her, Truss is now clearly the candidate of the ERG. I would expect Priti Patel to declare for Truss too before the last ballot.

    With Badenoch now likely eliminated early next week once Braverman voters get behind Truss (and with most Tugenhadt voters likely going to Sunak or Mordaunt), Truss could still make the last 2 if she gets virtually all Badenoch backing MPs behind her in the final ballot
    She wont get all the Badenoch MPs.

    Looking like Sunak v Penny to me tonight.

    If we assume that Badenoch is the next to fall after Tugendhat, she could choose to support Sunak and persuade some of her support to do likewise. Badenoch seems to be more the choice of those who yearn for a return to Conservative economic orthodoxy than to keep on bleating endlessly about Europe - and what better way for Sunak to repair his own reputation in that area than by letting it be known that he's considering Badenoch for Chancellor?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    edited July 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
    Sunak is not as bad as Trump. And Truss is far worse than Clinton.

    (Arguably, that could be 'Truss isn't quite as bad as Trump, but Sunak is a far better candidate than Clinton.')
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,734

    pigeon said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Don't jump to conclusions. Quite apart from anything else, Braverman can't simply deliver all her supporters as a bloc.
    It would be more significant if Steve Baker backed Truss.
    Steve Baker is about the only Brexiteer in parliament with a brain.
    No, he’s about the only one with integrity.
    Brains don’t come into it.
    He's far too 'Steve Baker Show' for my tastes. Worse still, his egotism caused damage.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498

    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
    It's a bit unfair on Sunak to compare him with Hillary.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    From one batshit candidate to another…
    The baton of batshit.

    What high office of state has Braverman been promised should Truss win?

    Home Office?

    Seems a good fit. She could reintroduce hulk ships in the Thames and make sure the workhouses are taking in enough idlers on benefits to keep them in business.

    And there's work to do on the death penalty for anyone caught stealing sheep.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    When is this weekend's Tory debate scheduled? And where is it being held?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    It looks like London is going to shit the bed on Monday.

    Not sure I want to risk train travel with those temperatures.
    If it still looks like 38-40C on Monday-Tuesday by, say, Saturday noon, then I would cancel any train travel

    If a train breaks down in 40C heat, and the aircon fails (and lots of stuff will fail in that heat), it could be genuinely nasty. You will cook, almost literally

    Of course this MAY WELL NOT HAPPEN, but we are now within 5 days of this and the models are still pumping out these scary temps

    This reminds me of “this MAY WELL NOT
    HAPPEN but MILLIONS of Brits are going to DIE of Covid!”
    Except in this case we are now odds on 38C+ and around 40% likely to hit 40C.

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Tory leadership election is going to get blown away, as a news item, by the hot air of the scorchio weather

    We are now firmly into plausible prediction territory - Monday is 4 days away and some models are predicting 40C in.... MANCHESTER

    The overnight minima are equally amazing - 26C in some places. If you don't have aircon that is going to be horrid/dangerous

    There is still a reasonable chance the worst won't happen. But with each hour that passes and no substantial variation in the predictions, that becomes less likely. Brace

    "Some models"
    Do you doubt this?
    Ok. Please just tell me. Why are the Met Office wrong on this?
    They're not wrong, just different. Because the Met make their predictions by combining their own and various other models - GFS, ECM, GEFS, etc

    Think of, say, GFS (probably the most influential model) as the raw data. To get from there to the MetOffice prediction is as much an art as a science: like taking raw ingredients and cooking

    But the raw data is extremely important (as any chef knows). GFS is predicting, in many of the multiple runs it does every six hours, 40C+ two days running for large parts of England/Wales

    It's not outlandish. My Meteo WeatherPro app on my iPhone, which is normally pretty reliable and unhysterical, is predicting 39C for London on Tuesday. That's the all time UK record broken
    Gfs is only the most ‘influential’ because it runs every 6 hours. It’s usually third in the list
    for accuracy.

    Your ap is just linking raw model data. It may
    well be gfs data.
    Absolutely, and it runs to 384hours and provides lots of free data.

    But GFS is far from an outlier on this heatwave. ECMWF, the most consistently accurate model, has been warmer and more settled than GFs throughout the run up. Far fewer cool outliers. And UKMet, the second
    most accurate, has been hot hot hot.

    The UKV and Mogreps which are localised versions of those global models are both showing 39-41C temperatures.

    As a model run, or one of the ensemble members?
    Model run, though last I saw was 00z for
    Mogreps.

    All major models have upper air at 22-23C in their op runs (a couple are a tad higher) and the ensemble means are the same. That equates to 39-40 C in good conditions.

    You seem consistently very keen on the idea this will be a non event. I recall you were going to eat you hat if we got to 36C.
    Where do you look at the Mogreps data? I didn't think the Met Office gave that away for free.
    Brian Gaze (TWO) buys it and publishes some, but not all data - eg not the max temp maps - on his site but comments on what they are showing.

    I find GFS an interesting example of soft power. A kind of BBC world service of met. Because it’s free and plentiful whilst ECM and UKMO are paywalled, it’s ubiquitous and powers most of the free apps too. So people pay it attention.

    Best for surface temps and cloud seems to be the French Arome though. That’s the one I’ll be glued to on Sunday.
  • https://twitter.com/timothy_stanley/status/1547657685394345987

    Her opponents are going to attempt to take apart Penny
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited July 2022
    Imagine ALL Braverman votes to Truss.

    We get

    Sunak 101
    Mordaunt 83
    Truss 91
    Badenoch 49
    Tugendhat 32

    Now imagine that Tugendhat is also gone. None of his votes are going to Truss or Badenoch. Imagine they split 50:50 to Sunak/Mordaunt.

    Sunak 117
    Mordaunt 99
    Truss 91
    Badenoch 49

    I contend that Badenochers - who include the entire Levelling Up department - will not then give Truss the numbers to send her over the top.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    From one batshit candidate to another…
    The baton of batshit.

    What high office of state has Braverman been promised should Truss win?

    Home Office?

    Seems a good fit. She could reintroduce hulk ships in the Thames and make sure the workhouses are taking in enough idlers on benefits to keep them in business.

    And there's work to do on the death penalty for anyone caught stealing sheep.
    I hope it's not Education.

    While from a selfish point of view her policies would cause demand for private tuition to skyrocket, that wouldn't compensate for further damage to the lives of millions of children.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    12m
    Big boost for Truss.

    Does this mean the foreign secretary is in favour of the UK leaving the ECHR?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753

    Betfair next PM:-

    1.85 Penny Mordaunt 54%
    4.7 Liz Truss 21%
    4.8 Rishi Sunak 21%
    28 Kemi Badenoch
    150 Tom Tugendhat
    290 Dominic Raab

    Liz returns to second favourite; Kemi goes for a walk.

    1.87 Penny Mordaunt 53%
    4.5 Liz Truss 22%
    4.7 Rishi Sunak 21%
    44 Kemi Badenoch
    130 Tom Tugendhat
    170 Dominic Raab
  • dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    I don’t really mind Sunak as far as it goes. I seem to be in a very a small minority, but when I hear the nonsense most of the rest come out with I look at Rishi and think: yes, you’re a bog standard Tory, yes you’re somewhat implicated in partygate, no you don’t really have any meaningful solutions to the UK’s long term economic malaise. But at least you’re not obsessing over bashing Brussels or defining what a woman is or competing for the most uncosted tax cut possible.

    You are not alone there.
    Yes you are right. But Liz Truss scares me so much that if I was an MP I would vote for Penny to keep her (LT) from the members.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
    It's a bit unfair on Sunak to compare him with Hillary.
    Maybe. But then that is not MY point. Do YOU believe that "even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss"?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    The Left/Moderates need to get a plan - and quick - to stop the odious Truss getting anywhere near the final two. Could some vote lending to Penny be the way forward? Sunak is not much worse off against her than he is against Truss. And the Leadsom for Chancellor attack probably plays.

    But, STOP TRUSS has to be the early goal.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Reading Braverman's comments earlier this seems like an anti-Mordaunt move rather than anything else.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498

    The Left/Moderates need to get a plan - and quick - to stop the odious Truss getting anywhere near the final two. Could some vote lending to Penny be the way forward? Sunak is not much worse off against her than he is against Truss. And the Leadsom for Chancellor attack probably plays.

    But, STOP TRUSS has to be the early goal.

    The only sure way to stop Truss would be to lend enough votes to Badenoch so that she overtakes Truss and forces her out.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    From one batshit candidate to another…
    The baton of batshit.

    What high office of state has Braverman been promised should Truss win?

    Home Office?

    Seems a good fit. She could reintroduce hulk ships in the Thames and make sure the workhouses are taking in enough idlers on benefits to keep them in business.

    And there's work to do on the death penalty for anyone caught stealing sheep.
    I hope it's not Education.

    While from a selfish point of view her policies would cause demand for private tuition to skyrocket, that wouldn't compensate for further damage to the lives of millions of children.
    No offence, but I think DoE is too lowly for someone of the majestic political qualities as Braverman.

    After all she read law at Cambridge.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753

    When is this weekend's Tory debate scheduled? And where is it being held?

    Channel 4 Friday
    ITV Sunday
    Sky Tuesday
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
    Sunak is not as bad as Trump. And Truss is far worse than Clinton.

    (Arguably, that could be 'Truss isn't quite as bad as Trump, but Sunak is a far better candidate than Clinton.')
    All I'm saying is, do you REALLY think that Truss beating Sunak is impossible?

    Seems like dangerous assumption, from your just-stated point of view re: the two.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Imagine ALL Braverman votes to Truss.

    We get

    Sunak 101
    Mordaunt 83
    Truss 91
    Badenoch 49
    Tugendhat 32

    Now imagine that Tugendhat is also gone. None of his votes are going to Truss or Badenoch. Imagine they split 50:50 to Sunak/Mordaunt.

    Sunak 117
    Mordaunt 99
    Truss 91
    Badenoch 49

    I contend that Badenochers - who include the entire Levelling Up department - will not then give Truss the numbers to send her over the top.

    Surely the question in your perfectly logical scenario is, what will Badenoch's price be?

    Home?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman will endorse Truss for the leadership the Times says, Steve Baker her campaign manager will also endorse Truss

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1547652125169094657?s=20&t=p3lPWF6Q-VALs5-UKNPADg

    From one batshit candidate to another…
    The baton of batshit.

    What high office of state has Braverman been promised should Truss win?

    Home Office?

    Seems a good fit. She could reintroduce hulk ships in the Thames and make sure the workhouses are taking in enough idlers on benefits to keep them in business.

    And there's work to do on the death penalty for anyone caught stealing sheep.
    I hope it's not Education.

    While from a selfish point of view her policies would cause demand for private tuition to skyrocket, that wouldn't compensate for further damage to the lives of millions of children.
    No offence, but I think DoE is too lowly for someone of the majestic political qualities as Braverman.

    After all she read law at Cambridge.

    So did Spielman.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846

    One thing I have noticed is the increasing frequency of British people in very nice cars delivering my Amazon packages. I am guessing via Flex system because they need some cash to make the payments on the motor.

    This might also explain why the quality of Hermes deliveries have improved.
    Evri, do keep up…
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited July 2022
    nico679 said:

    Great news for Labour if Truss wins but a tragedy for the country who will have an ERG puppet in no 10 who will start a trade war with the EU and continue the horrible divisive politics of the Johnson years .

    If Truss wins the leadership and becomes PM a Labour majority looks likely, as a slash spending, ex Remainer she won't win back the redwall from Labour and as a born again, anti woke Brexiteer she will lose Remain seats in the bluewall to the LDs.

    Indeed if Truss wins I predict more Tory MPs will lose their seats than would have done had they stuck with Boris!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Betfair next PM:-

    1.85 Penny Mordaunt 54%
    4.7 Liz Truss 21%
    4.8 Rishi Sunak 21%
    28 Kemi Badenoch
    150 Tom Tugendhat
    290 Dominic Raab

    Liz returns to second favourite; Kemi goes for a walk.

    1.87 Penny Mordaunt 53%
    4.5 Liz Truss 22%
    4.7 Rishi Sunak 21%
    44 Kemi Badenoch
    130 Tom Tugendhat
    170 Dominic Raab
    Yes. The Left of the party have a strategic problem now. A dream Mordant/Sunak ticket might be the best way of shutting out the Right. But how do they execute it?

    Truss is very transfer friendly.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472
    I think Mordaunt's going to crash and burn from here on in. We're at Peak Mordaunt.

    She has too big a target on her back now. A shame, as I think she's the best of the remaining candidates, for all her flaws.
  • Just as many foreign people delivering packages and doing Uber rides here in SW London, not that it matters
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Its likely all down to the flavour of Kemis backers.if they break for Truss heavily Mordaunt could get squeezed out here.
    Jesus, anyone but Truss from that 5
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
    Sunak is not as bad as Trump. And Truss is far worse than Clinton.

    (Arguably, that could be 'Truss isn't quite as bad as Trump, but Sunak is a far better candidate than Clinton.')
    All I'm saying is, do you REALLY think that Truss beating Sunak is impossible?

    Seems like dangerous assumption, from your just-stated point of view re: the two.
    Nothing is impossible. It's even possible one day Johnson will say something truthful or Cummings will show a sign of intelligence.

    But she's a poor public speaker, infamous for her lack of preparation in key roles, highly controversial, has an undeveloped policy offering and has been an embarrassment at the Foreign Office.

    I don't think she stands much chance.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Great news for Labour if Truss wins but a tragedy for the country who will have an ERG puppet in no 10 who will start a trade war with the EU and continue the horrible divisive politics of the Johnson years .

    If Truss wins the leadership and becomes PM a Labour majority looks likely, as a slash spending, ex Remainer she won't win back the redwall and as a born again, anti woke Brexiteer she will lose Remain seats in the redwall to the LDs.

    Indeed if Truss wins I predict more Tory MPs will lose their seats than would have done had they stuck with Boris!
    Yes, but is there any downside?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    The reality for Conservative MPs and members to ponder is this: Lizzy Lightweight is the most likely person to deliver Starmer into No10. She would be Labour's preferred candidate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    Its likely all down to the flavour of Kemis backers.if they break for Truss heavily Mordaunt could get squeezed out here.
    Jesus, anyone but Truss from that 5

    PM Truss will make Boris look like a bleeding heart liberal, it would be a Cabinet dominated by the ERG, she would be the puppet of Francois, IDS and Rees Mogg and Steve Baker as they would be the ones who got her the leadership
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    Sunak now the value bet imho.

    I have topped up.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    If Truss gets through I think she beats Sunak . A truly horrific state of affairs .
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    HYUFD said:

    Its likely all down to the flavour of Kemis backers.if they break for Truss heavily Mordaunt could get squeezed out here.
    Jesus, anyone but Truss from that 5

    PM Truss will make Boris look like a bleeding heart liberal, it would be a Cabinet dominated by the ERG, she would be the puppet of Francois, IDS and Rees Mogg and Steve Baker as they would be the ones who got her the leadership
    Agreed. Would you resign your membership in protest?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    HYUFD said:

    Its likely all down to the flavour of Kemis backers.if they break for Truss heavily Mordaunt could get squeezed out here.
    Jesus, anyone but Truss from that 5

    PM Truss will make Boris look like a bleeding heart liberal, it would be a Cabinet dominated by the ERG, she would be the puppet of Francois, IDS and Rees Mogg and Steve Baker as they would be the ones who got her the leadership
    OK, downside now explained!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,178

    If we're talking unreality TV, Channel 4 have this for us to look forward to;

    Make Me Prime Minister (w/t) will follow the ambitious candidates on the campaign trail. They will be put through their paces in a series of prime ministerial style tasks designed to test their leadership skills, resilience, and integrity. These weekly group challenges will be set and adjudicated by Alastair Campbell and Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, two political heavyweights who know exactly what it takes to succeed in office.

    https://www.channel4.com/press/news/channel-4-gets-political-make-me-prime-minister-wt

    Maybe we should have let them manage the current process.

    Sayeeda! A political heavyweight!

    Snort 😂

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely it’ll be Truss vs Rishi now

    Well, that might not be the worst outcome. I don't trust Mordaunt much further than @Cyclefree, and I notice her launch was long on cliché and short on information.

    And surely, surely, even Sunak couldn't possibly lose to Truss.
    In a world where Hillary lost to The Donald?
    Sunak is not as bad as Trump. And Truss is far worse than Clinton.

    (Arguably, that could be 'Truss isn't quite as bad as Trump, but Sunak is a far better candidate than Clinton.')
    All I'm saying is, do you REALLY think that Truss beating Sunak is impossible?

    Seems like dangerous assumption, from your just-stated point of view re: the two.
    Nothing is impossible. It's even possible one day Johnson will say something truthful or Cummings will show a sign of intelligence.

    But she's a poor public speaker, infamous for her lack of preparation in key roles, highly controversial, has an undeveloped policy offering and has been an embarrassment at the Foreign Office.

    I don't think she stands much chance.
    Serious question: how has she been an embassy at the FO? I would say she’s been more effective than Johnson and Raab.

    Is she infamous for her lack of preparation? I hadn’t heard that.

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Great news for Labour if Truss wins but a tragedy for the country who will have an ERG puppet in no 10 who will start a trade war with the EU and continue the horrible divisive politics of the Johnson years .

    If Truss wins the leadership and becomes PM a Labour majority looks likely, as a slash spending, ex Remainer she won't win back the redwall from Labour and as a born again, anti woke Brexiteer she will lose Remain seats in the bluewall to the LDs.

    Indeed if Truss wins I predict more Tory MPs will lose their seats than would have done had they stuck with Boris!
    Yep. Wrong person. Wrong time. She’d gift the next election to Starmer.

  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    HYUFD said:

    Its likely all down to the flavour of Kemis backers.if they break for Truss heavily Mordaunt could get squeezed out here.
    Jesus, anyone but Truss from that 5

    PM Truss will make Boris look like a bleeding heart liberal, it would be a Cabinet dominated by the ERG, she would be the puppet of Francois, IDS and Rees Mogg and Steve Baker as they would be the ones who got her the leadership
    Absolutely right which is why I’m terrified that she might win. The Tories would deserve annihilation at the election.
This discussion has been closed.