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How the betting markets reacted to the 1st round result – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    Right now, with one of those cylinder-shaped fan-thingies on, our living room is 27.9C. Suburban east London.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    Where and by whom? Still no worse than an (admittedly pretty horrible) 35°C on Tuesday according to what I've seen.
    Depends which model you believe.

    GFS 12Z has 38C for Mon and Tue, with Tue being hottest in the east. Minimum Monday on night of 25C+!
    Still 6-7 days away, so don’t believe until 48-72 hours is a good rule.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    It was 25 degrees this morning when I woke at 6am. I then went for a run in Central Park.

    Thank fuck for central heating tho.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited July 2022

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    Cameron and Osborne served in Howard's Shadow Cabinet - Johnson had the dubious honour of being sacked by both the previous Conservative leaders.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    One of the weather models has a forecast for 31C in south central England…. At 7am on Monday morning

    WTF

    I enjoy weather geekery and record-chasing but those night time/morning temperatures would certainly kill people. Let’s hope they are wrong
    Mainly fat people, though.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,494
    edited July 2022

    As someone who suffered years of pain that the NHS caused and utterly failed to sort out, I am going to say something controversial:

    I think homeopathy is mostly rubbish, but there is a place for it. Much healing is mental, and if someone thinks it works, then it may help their mood if nothing else.

    But it should be complementary, not the only 'cure' (see Steve Jobs), and it probably should not be available on the NHS, unless there is nothing else the NHS can do.

    When you are in pain, and the doctors can do nothing to help you, you will try anything. (note: I did not try homeopathy, but I wish I had if it had made me *feel* better).

    Is there not loads of evidence for the placebo effect? Things that aren't true work only if you believe them and all that. (Like atheism works for Dawkins).

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194
    CatMan said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    Well who do you think are being sexist to women. Other women?
    Besides, that's the free market and freedom of expression.

    You don't like it? Fine. Don't patronise the firm behind it. If you want, arrange/donate to a different campaign.

    That's how this stuff is meant to work.
  • Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    algarkirk said:

    SFAICS Penny is favourite for only one reason, and that a remarkable one: she isn't one of the others.

    That's worked for other candidates in the past (e.g., Jim Hacker).

    I think Mordaunt has more going for her. She's a new face, but with some experience. She's not tied to Boris. She's not on the crazy right of the party, but isn't too far over to the left. Tory members like her back story. She can get the support of both an Andrea Leadsom and a Caroline Nokes. I can see why she's popular.
    Not old, not new, not Boris, not a rebel, not right, not left, NOTA.
    Now that Penny Mordaunt is the front-runner, there will be a lot of MPs replaying her launch video and googling reviews of her book in order to try and work out just what is Pennyism and whether they actually support it. And they've only got till tomorrow when the next vote is due.
    She believes in homeopathy.

    A fruitloop. Pretty. Looks good in a swimsuit. But a fruitloop. And a lying one at that.

    But she may well win.

    And this is the party that thinks it is moving on from Boris.......
    I'm aware that Mordaunt signed an EDM in favour of homeopathy, but I've not been able to find anything else showing her support.

    Also...

    The same day that she signed said EDM, was the first time she had tabled one herself (celebrating the 60th anniversary of Portsmouth twinning with Duisburg). Half the people that signed her EDM had signed the homeopathy one. May have been a bit of quid pro quo, and not necessarily confirm her belief in the magic healing power of sugar.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    12pm is meaningless. Midnight or midday? And why not do the sleeper, if you aren't?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    MaxPB said:

    Badenoch gets my vote if she gets through.

    Yes, she's inexperienced. And Boris and Rishi weren't? Both had done fuck all 5 years ago.

    Kemi is fast, courageous, and smart, and will quickly learn on the job.

    Kemi.

    Agreed. Additionally Labour will tie themselves in knots to try and denounce the Tories as racist with a black woman in power. I wonder what Uncle Tom is for women.
    This is a weird fantasy held by some on the Right. While there may be some Twitter lefties who say that, Labour won’t. Labour will say, “What is she doing about the cost of living? What is she doing about NHS waiting lists? What is she doing about climate change?” I’ve not seen any great answers from Kemi to those questions.
    Let's go more meta, and make a thing about "right-wingers overcompensating by being obsessed by left-wing racism about right-wingers from ethnic minorities". Or we could stop the nonsense.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    One of the weather models has a forecast for 31C in south central England…. At 7am on Monday morning

    WTF

    I enjoy weather geekery and record-chasing but those night time/morning temperatures would certainly kill people. Let’s hope they are wrong
    Mainly fat people, though.
    Actually mainly older people.
  • I think saying who you served under is one of the most ridiculous arguments there is. I remember commotion about Blair having said various things about trade unions in the 80s. In power he wasn't anything to fear, clearly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,475

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In a bayside restaurant near Tivat - the last night of my ODYSSEY

    (Sob, but i hope to renew it in the autumn)

    It’s big and busy. There are lots of local couples and families here. There are maybe 20 women under 30, of which half are strikingly beautiful

    It really is quite a phenomenon, I’ve not seen its like, it must be some perfect storm of genes (Slavic, surely some Italian, a hint of Greek?), plus a very healthy Med diet and a climate/topography that encourages walking and swimming: everyone tans and swims in the evening

    As the humble flint knapper, I merely sit and observe the world, this is a delightful corner of it

    I have to say your adventures have got me thinking about if I could potentially make of WFH (work from h'abroad) possible for a few months of the year.
    Go for it

    I am determined to do this as much as I can from now on; why not?

    My kids are nearly grown. I positively ENJOY travelling alone - you get to do whatever you want but you also meet people on the way, new people, interesting people
    Most of them on here.
    You meet people everywhere, as long as you are willing to chat.

    I was in my local play park after school. I met a jetlagged lady who had just arrived to spend four years in the UK, having been based in Utah for the last few years. It was a fascinating conversation as our kids played:

    Her initial thoughts on the UK:
    *) She was terrified about driving at the moment, though she said she'd get used to it.
    *) Our food prices are so much cheaper, and something about food tax.
    *) People are so friendly
    *) Utah was a beautiful dump. She could not wait to get out. Anywhere.
    *) The skies are so clear here; no pollution. (this surprised me)
    *) Rental accommodation is hard to get. Her family were AirBnB'ing for months until a rental place became available.
    *) Wasn't the UK supposed to be cold?

    I put her mind to rest on the latter point. The normal weather service will be resumed soon enough ...
    Utah doesn't have clear skies?
    That surprised me. She waxed lyrical about the mountains (I told her about the Pennines, and how 'low' our highest mountain is), but she said the air quality where she had been living was dire, and the air here much better. I guess as she was a forces wife, she might have been living within 100 yards of the tailpipe of an F16... ;)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,292
    Test
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    algarkirk said:

    As someone who suffered years of pain that the NHS caused and utterly failed to sort out, I am going to say something controversial:

    I think homeopathy is mostly rubbish, but there is a place for it. Much healing is mental, and if someone thinks it works, then it may help their mood if nothing else.

    But it should be complementary, not the only 'cure' (see Steve Jobs), and it probably should not be available on the NHS, unless there is nothing else the NHS can do.

    When you are in pain, and the doctors can do nothing to help you, you will try anything. (note: I did not try homeopathy, but I wish I had if it had made me *feel* better).

    Is there not loads of evidence for the placebo effect? Things that aren't true work only if you believe them and all that. (Like atheism works for Dawkins).

    At least we're now being clear that the problem with Dawkins is not primarily his process, but his conclusion.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    I'm not saying sexist hate in football isn't a thing.

    But isn't, um, just "normal" hate also a big thing? As in footballers get and have gotten for many years (even, crazily enough, prior to social media) a ridiculous level of abuse regardless of whether it's specifically sexist, racist or homophobic? Can we not just aim to stamp out all of that, as opposed to specifically deciding some types of it are more important to stamp out than others?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,292
    @CatMan
    Yes, sometimes. And sometimes women are to men. Either sex can be sexist to the other. Most of the time people are not. This is virtue-signally Woke hectoring to men and it pisses me off.

    It probably works in expanding EE's profile in the short term (and I've just helped) but not in the longer term.

    I still don't use Gillette for pulling this shit a few years ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,324
    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.
  • ydoethur said:

    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.

    macOS, come over.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    What’s the problem?
  • @CatMan
    Yes, sometimes. And sometimes women are to men. Either sex can be sexist to the other. Most of the time people are not. This is virtue-signally Woke hectoring to men and it pisses me off.

    It probably works in expanding EE's profile in the short term (and I've just helped) but not in the longer term.

    I still don't use Gillette for pulling this shit a few years ago.

    They make good shaving cream.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,324

    ydoethur said:

    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.

    macOS, come over.
    I've got a Mac as well, but this is some school stuff and I need the extra RAM in the Windows if I'm not to take all night over it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,292

    CatMan said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    Well who do you think are being sexist to women. Other women?
    I genuinely don't know who has so much time at Waterloo to be looking at this stuff and caring about it.

    I'm either fed up that my train is late again, sitting in Pret eating or on a train waiting for it to leave.
    This is the response of someone who doesn't want the issue to be debated.

    I remember hearing the same on a referendum on the EU in the early 2010s from those who, err, loved federalism.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764

    @CatMan
    Yes, sometimes. And sometimes women are to men. Either sex can be sexist to the other. Most of the time people are not. This is virtue-signally Woke hectoring to men and it pisses me off.

    It probably works in expanding EE's profile in the short term (and I've just helped) but not in the longer term.

    I still don't use Gillette for pulling this shit a few years ago.

    I saw a very similar EE poster today, but can't remember if it was at Paddington or Liverpool Street!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,968

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    I'm not saying sexist hate in football isn't a thing.

    But isn't, um, just "normal" hate also a big thing? As in footballers get and have gotten for many years (even, crazily enough, prior to social media) a ridiculous level of abuse regardless of whether it's specifically sexist, racist or homophobic? Can we not just aim to stamp out all of that, as opposed to specifically deciding some types of it are more important to stamp out than others?
    Specific calls to action are better motivators than general ones. There have been many campaigns in football over the years targeted against various specific issues. It’s not like this is the first one ever. The reason for this one now is because the Women’s Euros are on.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,475

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
    Thanks, so he did, according to Wiki saying it was 'simply untenable now to suggest we can offer an effective opposition without a change of leader".". But isn't it amazing how he then spent three years as "Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" under the same leader immediately afterwards? even when others later resigned?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    They’re not alone.

    https://twitter.com/DougChapmanSNP/status/1547270996541014018
    Just been ejected from the HoC for not wearing a tie/jacket in the Chamber. It’s above 28C+ and a call was put out yesterday on the internal Parliament site regarding well-being during this heatwave. To cap it all, I signed and EDM on the Maximum Temperature in the Workplace.

    Though some fool is proposing to spend £22bn on that…
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498
    ydoethur said:

    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.

    Windows is shutting down, and grammar are
    On their last leg. So what am we to do?
    A letter of complaint go just so far,
    Proving the only one in step are you.

    Better, perhaps, to simply let it goes.
    A sentence have to be screwed pretty bad
    Before they gets to where you doesnt knows
    The meaning what it must of meant to had.

    The meteor have hit. Extinction spread,
    But evolution do not stop for that.
    A mutant languages rise from the dead
    And all them rules is suddenly old hat.

    Too bad for we, us what has had so long
    The best seat from the only game in town.
    But there it am, and whom can say its wrong?
    Those are the break. Windows is shutting down.
  • CatMan said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    Well who do you think are being sexist to women. Other women?
    I genuinely don't know who has so much time at Waterloo to be looking at this stuff and caring about it.

    I'm either fed up that my train is late again, sitting in Pret eating or on a train waiting for it to leave.
    This is the response of someone who doesn't want the issue to be debated.

    I remember hearing the same on a referendum on the EU in the early 2010s from those who, err, loved federalism.
    Well no it's just true.

    Can anyone hear honestly say at Waterloo they care what the advertising boards above say? You're waiting for a train to leave or in my case, probably running for a train because you left too late. My time keeping is dreadful.

    Your condescending nature as usual notwithstanding.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    I'm not saying sexist hate in football isn't a thing.

    But isn't, um, just "normal" hate also a big thing? As in footballers get and have gotten for many years (even, crazily enough, prior to social media) a ridiculous level of abuse regardless of whether it's specifically sexist, racist or homophobic? Can we not just aim to stamp out all of that, as opposed to specifically deciding some types of it are more important to stamp out than others?
    It's a lot easier to start with specifics (especially sympathetic specifics). I haven't the first clue to work out how to wipe out hate more generally - the Ludovico technique? Whereas I can imagine how to do something about sexist hate.

    Or I look at the leadership contest. The chat about a small state is a bit general and doesn't make me ask what exactly we should be doing. (Maybe that's the point.) The arguments about women? A lot more specific, and I'd say effective in inspiring a sense that something specific should be done.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    algarkirk said:

    SFAICS Penny is favourite for only one reason, and that a remarkable one: she isn't one of the others.

    That's worked for other candidates in the past (e.g., Jim Hacker).

    I think Mordaunt has more going for her. She's a new face, but with some experience. She's not tied to Boris. She's not on the crazy right of the party, but isn't too far over to the left. Tory members like her back story. She can get the support of both an Andrea Leadsom and a Caroline Nokes. I can see why she's popular.
    Not old, not new, not Boris, not a rebel, not right, not left, NOTA.
    Now that Penny Mordaunt is the front-runner, there will be a lot of MPs replaying her launch video and googling reviews of her book in order to try and work out just what is Pennyism and whether they actually support it. And they've only got till tomorrow when the next vote is due.
    She believes in homeopathy.

    A fruitloop. Pretty. Looks good in a swimsuit. But a fruitloop. And a lying one at that.

    But she may well win.

    And this is the party that thinks it is moving on from Boris.......
    Belief in homeopathy should be instant disqualification for anybody in the running for leader of a major political party.....
    There's perfectly sound second order arguments for it. In a nutshell, it's the only way you can administer a placebo these days. it's much better for people, the NHS budget and the environment to give them water rather than SSRIs for their depression, if the placebo effect is all they are getting from it anyway.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,741
    Strikes me that we are witnessing the rise of the No-Nonsense Women and, hopefully, the demise of entitled men.

    Penny will win, while the star of the campaign is Kemi.

    Not sure how poor old Labour will respond stuck, as they are, with a wooden white male lawyer.

    But them's the breaks, as someone once said, a long, long time ago.

    But it's a huge sea-change.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,324
    edited July 2022
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    They’re not alone.

    https://twitter.com/DougChapmanSNP/status/1547270996541014018
    Just been ejected from the HoC for not wearing a tie/jacket in the Chamber. It’s above 28C+ and a call was put out yesterday on the internal Parliament site regarding well-being during this heatwave. To cap it all, I signed and EDM on the Maximum Temperature in the Workplace.

    Though some fool is proposing to spend £22bn on that…
    Hospitals too - how will they manage?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In a bayside restaurant near Tivat - the last night of my ODYSSEY

    (Sob, but i hope to renew it in the autumn)

    It’s big and busy. There are lots of local couples and families here. There are maybe 20 women under 30, of which half are strikingly beautiful

    It really is quite a phenomenon, I’ve not seen its like, it must be some perfect storm of genes (Slavic, surely some Italian, a hint of Greek?), plus a very healthy Med diet and a climate/topography that encourages walking and swimming: everyone tans and swims in the evening

    As the humble flint knapper, I merely sit and observe the world, this is a delightful corner of it

    I have to say your adventures have got me thinking about if I could potentially make of WFH (work from h'abroad) possible for a few months of the year.
    Go for it

    I am determined to do this as much as I can from now on; why not?

    My kids are nearly grown. I positively ENJOY travelling alone - you get to do whatever you want but you also meet people on the way, new people, interesting people
    Most of them on here.
    You meet people everywhere, as long as you are willing to chat.

    I was in my local play park after school. I met a jetlagged lady who had just arrived to spend four years in the UK, having been based in Utah for the last few years. It was a fascinating conversation as our kids played:

    Her initial thoughts on the UK:
    *) She was terrified about driving at the moment, though she said she'd get used to it.
    *) Our food prices are so much cheaper, and something about food tax.
    *) People are so friendly
    *) Utah was a beautiful dump. She could not wait to get out. Anywhere.
    *) The skies are so clear here; no pollution. (this surprised me)
    *) Rental accommodation is hard to get. Her family were AirBnB'ing for months until a rental place became available.
    *) Wasn't the UK supposed to be cold?

    I put her mind to rest on the latter point. The normal weather service will be resumed soon enough ...
    Utah doesn't have clear skies?
    Air quality in & around Salt Lake City can be problematic depending on weather

    https://air.utah.gov/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    Inverness sounds like a good place to be.
  • Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
    Thanks, so he did, according to Wiki saying it was 'simply untenable now to suggest we can offer an effective opposition without a change of leader".". But isn't it amazing how he then spent three years as "Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" under the same leader immediately afterwards? even when others later resigned?
    As I explained to you, he wouldn't have been able to lead the party if he hadn't done that. Do you think he was right to take over and then remove Corbyn altogether, which he did?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    Yes, the last time we had weather this hot - in 2019 - the East Coast main Line couldn't cope with the heat. I think some of the overhead lines in the Peterborough area melted and landed on top of a train, causing hours of delays and many cancellations. As I recall I was due out of Kings Cross on the 4pm train, but left early and was only a couple of hours delayed on a train leaving late in the morning. The 4pm train limped into Edinburgh Waverley at about two in the morning, six hours late.

    So, you might be okay with the 12 noon train, but I'd rebook to an earlier one if you can.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited July 2022

    Right now, with one of those cylinder-shaped fan-thingies on, our living room is 27.9C. Suburban east London.

    We've got 18 tomorrow 19 Friday.
    Rainy for both.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited July 2022

    Strikes me that we are witnessing the rise of the No-Nonsense Women and, hopefully, the demise of entitled men.

    Penny will win, while the star of the campaign is Kemi.

    Not sure how poor old Labour will respond stuck, as they are, with a wooden white male lawyer.

    But them's the breaks, as someone once said, a long, long time ago.

    But it's a huge sea-change.

    Labour will do just fine, the new leader needs to overturn a 15 point lead.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    CatMan said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    Well who do you think are being sexist to women. Other women?
    I genuinely don't know who has so much time at Waterloo to be looking at this stuff and caring about it.

    I'm either fed up that my train is late again, sitting in Pret eating or on a train waiting for it to leave.
    This is the response of someone who doesn't want the issue to be debated.

    I remember hearing the same on a referendum on the EU in the early 2010s from those who, err, loved federalism.
    Well no it's just true.

    Can anyone hear honestly say at Waterloo they care what the advertising boards above say? You're waiting for a train to leave or in my case, probably running for a train because you left too late. My time keeping is dreadful.

    Your condescending nature as usual notwithstanding.
    Don't you see? It's vital that we debate the need to... let's see... defend sexism from the wokies?
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,285
    Suppose Mordaunt wins. She offers Sunak a Cabinet job, but it's a demotion. Does he take it?
    I would have almost certainly said no, but given what ultimately happened to Hunt I think he might well do now. The King over the Water strategy doesn't seem to work.
  • Very happy to have Penny, she seems competent, sensible and normal. That is good for the country.

    I do not think she will end up being a Labour destroying machine but we will see, I am often wrong as you all know.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In a bayside restaurant near Tivat - the last night of my ODYSSEY

    (Sob, but i hope to renew it in the autumn)

    It’s big and busy. There are lots of local couples and families here. There are maybe 20 women under 30, of which half are strikingly beautiful

    It really is quite a phenomenon, I’ve not seen its like, it must be some perfect storm of genes (Slavic, surely some Italian, a hint of Greek?), plus a very healthy Med diet and a climate/topography that encourages walking and swimming: everyone tans and swims in the evening

    As the humble flint knapper, I merely sit and observe the world, this is a delightful corner of it

    I have to say your adventures have got me thinking about if I could potentially make of WFH (work from h'abroad) possible for a few months of the year.
    Go for it

    I am determined to do this as much as I can from now on; why not?

    My kids are nearly grown. I positively ENJOY travelling alone - you get to do whatever you want but you also meet people on the way, new people, interesting people
    Most of them on here.
    You meet people everywhere, as long as you are willing to chat.

    I was in my local play park after school. I met a jetlagged lady who had just arrived to spend four years in the UK, having been based in Utah for the last few years. It was a fascinating conversation as our kids played:

    Her initial thoughts on the UK:
    *) She was terrified about driving at the moment, though she said she'd get used to it.
    *) Our food prices are so much cheaper, and something about food tax.
    *) People are so friendly
    *) Utah was a beautiful dump. She could not wait to get out. Anywhere.
    *) The skies are so clear here; no pollution. (this surprised me)
    *) Rental accommodation is hard to get. Her family were AirBnB'ing for months until a rental place became available.
    *) Wasn't the UK supposed to be cold?

    I put her mind to rest on the latter point. The normal weather service will be resumed soon enough ...
    ….
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In a bayside restaurant near Tivat - the last night of my ODYSSEY

    (Sob, but i hope to renew it in the autumn)

    It’s big and busy. There are lots of local couples and families here. There are maybe 20 women under 30, of which half are strikingly beautiful

    It really is quite a phenomenon, I’ve not seen its like, it must be some perfect storm of genes (Slavic, surely some Italian, a hint of Greek?), plus a very healthy Med diet and a climate/topography that encourages walking and swimming: everyone tans and swims in the evening

    As the humble flint knapper, I merely sit and observe the world, this is a delightful corner of it

    I have to say your adventures have got me thinking about if I could potentially make of WFH (work from h'abroad) possible for a few months of the year.
    Go for it

    I am determined to do this as much as I can from now on; why not?

    My kids are nearly grown. I positively ENJOY travelling alone - you get to do whatever you want but you also meet people on the way, new people, interesting people
    Most of them on here.
    You meet people everywhere, as long as you are willing to chat.

    I was in my local play park after school. I met a jetlagged lady who had just arrived to spend four years in the UK, having been based in Utah for the last few years. It was a fascinating conversation as our kids played:

    Her initial thoughts on the UK:
    *) She was terrified about driving at the moment, though she said she'd get used to it.
    *) Our food prices are so much cheaper, and something about food tax.
    *) People are so friendly
    *) Utah was a beautiful dump. She could not wait to get out. Anywhere.
    *) The skies are so clear here; no pollution. (this surprised me)
    *) Rental accommodation is hard to get. Her family were AirBnB'ing for months until a rental place became available.
    *) Wasn't the UK supposed to be cold?

    I put her mind to rest on the latter point. The normal weather service will be resumed soon enough ...
    Utah doesn't have clear skies?
    That surprised me. She waxed lyrical about the mountains (I told her about the Pennines, and how 'low' our highest mountain is), but she said the air quality where she had been living was dire, and the air here much better. I guess as she was a forces wife, she might have been living within 100 yards of the tailpipe of an F16... ;)
    As noted above, Utah has some issues re: air quality.

    As for views, from SLC on clear day spectacular.

    To bad that Great Salt Lake is going the way of Aral Sea and Lake Chad, due to sucking up water for over-development, exacerbated by global warming.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    Yes, the last time we had weather this hot - in 2019 - the East Coast main Line couldn't cope with the heat. I think some of the overhead lines in the Peterborough area melted and landed on top of a train, causing hours of delays and many cancellations. As I recall I was due out of Kings Cross on the 4pm train, but left early and was only a couple of hours delayed on a train leaving late in the morning. The 4pm train limped into Edinburgh Waverley at about two in the morning, six hours late.

    So, you might be okay with the 12 noon train, but I'd rebook to an earlier one if you can.
    And was that not shocking for the passengers?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,023
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In a bayside restaurant near Tivat - the last night of my ODYSSEY

    (Sob, but i hope to renew it in the autumn)

    It’s big and busy. There are lots of local couples and families here. There are maybe 20 women under 30, of which half are strikingly beautiful

    It really is quite a phenomenon, I’ve not seen its like, it must be some perfect storm of genes (Slavic, surely some Italian, a hint of Greek?), plus a very healthy Med diet and a climate/topography that encourages walking and swimming: everyone tans and swims in the evening

    As the humble flint knapper, I merely sit and observe the world, this is a delightful corner of it

    I have to say your adventures have got me thinking about if I could potentially make of WFH (work from h'abroad) possible for a few months of the year.
    Go for it

    I am determined to do this as much as I can from now on; why not?

    My kids are nearly grown. I positively ENJOY travelling alone - you get to do whatever you want but you also meet people on the way, new people, interesting people
    Most of them on here.
    You meet people everywhere, as long as you are willing to chat.

    I was in my local play park after school. I met a jetlagged lady who had just arrived to spend four years in the UK, having been based in Utah for the last few years. It was a fascinating conversation as our kids played:

    Her initial thoughts on the UK:
    *) She was terrified about driving at the moment, though she said she'd get used to it.
    *) Our food prices are so much cheaper, and something about food tax.
    *) People are so friendly
    *) Utah was a beautiful dump. She could not wait to get out. Anywhere.
    *) The skies are so clear here; no pollution. (this surprised me)
    *) Rental accommodation is hard to get. Her family were AirBnB'ing for months until a rental place became available.
    *) Wasn't the UK supposed to be cold?

    I put her mind to rest on the latter point. The normal weather service will be resumed soon enough ...
    Utah doesn't have clear skies?
    That surprised me. She waxed lyrical about the mountains (I told her about the Pennines, and how 'low' our highest mountain is), but she said the air quality where she had been living was dire, and the air here much better. I guess as she was a forces wife, she might have been living within 100 yards of the tailpipe of an F16... ;)
    On the rental one there are now very detailed Right to Rent checks, involving a fairly complex process of identity documents. Serious offence if not carried out correctly, and it may (haven't checked) be a Civil Penalty, which means that it is the stroke of a local bureaucrats pen, and no serious Appeal process.

    It's another thing mitigating in favour of long-term tenancies. The more admin that is heaped into new tenancies, the more it is worth keeping the existing T.

    I'm selling a 2 bed terrace in the next couple of days - decent area and good school catchment, so it will go to a first time buyer for £115-120k, or an investor for £110-115k. The local Bairstow-Eves tells me that their normal process for such a house is 15 viewings then an accepted offer within 4 days.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,475
    ydoethur said:

    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.

    Just feel glad you aren't using the initial Chinese version of Windows 95. The one that MS got a Taiwanese company to do the translations for.

    As you might imagine, the translations were (ahem) not necessarily complementary to the Chinese government. The PRC don't like being called 'Communist bandits' ...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,968
    My very warm cat is snuggling against me. Too warm.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    People forget with Penny Morduant that she has been a minister in several departments since 2014. In this time she had not one single achievement of note, while being responsible for a number of moderate gaffes.

    However ... in an election you only need to be better than the others. She is no more incompetent than the alternatives, while being less dishonest than most. She is personable, which should help in campaigning. On that basis she is probably the best of a dire bunch.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,494
    edited July 2022
    EPG said:

    algarkirk said:

    As someone who suffered years of pain that the NHS caused and utterly failed to sort out, I am going to say something controversial:

    I think homeopathy is mostly rubbish, but there is a place for it. Much healing is mental, and if someone thinks it works, then it may help their mood if nothing else.

    But it should be complementary, not the only 'cure' (see Steve Jobs), and it probably should not be available on the NHS, unless there is nothing else the NHS can do.

    When you are in pain, and the doctors can do nothing to help you, you will try anything. (note: I did not try homeopathy, but I wish I had if it had made me *feel* better).

    Is there not loads of evidence for the placebo effect? Things that aren't true work only if you believe them and all that. (Like atheism works for Dawkins).

    At least we're now being clear that the problem with Dawkins is not primarily his process, but his conclusion.
    No. Goose. Gander. And as I made clear above, rubbishy books are written
    on all sides of the theism debate, Dawkins among them. On the atheism side J L Mackie stands out as excellent, as are the outstanding Hume dialogues, but a good number of others also.

  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 500
    edited July 2022

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
    Thanks, so he did, according to Wiki saying it was 'simply untenable now to suggest we can offer an effective opposition without a change of leader".". But isn't it amazing how he then spent three years as "Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" under the same leader immediately afterwards? even when others later resigned?
    As I explained to you, he wouldn't have been able to lead the party if he hadn't done that. Do you think he was right to take over and then remove Corbyn altogether, which he did?
    Someone else would have been able to lead the party, though, which means Starmer put personal ambition above principle. Or are you saying that there was no other candidate for leader - or that the Labour party would not have elected those candidates - who would have been willing to withdraw the whip from Corbyn after he followed the party's worst results since the thirties by saying that accusations of antisemitism were overstated?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    IshmaelZ said:

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    12pm is meaningless. Midnight or midday? And why not do the sleeper, if you aren't?
    12pm has always meant midday, actually.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,762
    ydoethur said:

    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.

    Make a calendar reminder: the second Tuesday in each month is Patch Tuesday when Microsoft and some other vendors release updates, often big ones that take a fair while to download and install, and then need a reboot. Owing to the time difference, it can be Wednesday before we get them, so make a second calendar reminder for the day after the second Tuesday. Then at least you will be prepared for this sort of thing and can take precautions.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited July 2022

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
    Thanks, so he did, according to Wiki saying it was 'simply untenable now to suggest we can offer an effective opposition without a change of leader".". But isn't it amazing how he then spent three years as "Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" under the same leader immediately afterwards? even when others later resigned?
    As I explained to you, he wouldn't have been able to lead the party if he hadn't done that. Do you think he was right to take over and then remove Corbyn altogether, which he did?
    Someone else would have been able to lead the party, though, which means Starmer put personal ambition above principle. Or are you saying that there was no other candidate for leader - or that the Labour party would not have elected those candidates - who would have been willing to withdraw the whip from Corbyn after he said that accusations of antisemitism were overstated?
    Who? Can you name anyone?

    We had RLB, Laura Pidcock, Angela Rayner in the running.

    I don't think any other candidate would have done what Starmer did - and that's because he uniquely got the Corbyn wing on side.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    One of the weather models has a forecast for 31C in south central England…. At 7am on Monday morning

    WTF

    I enjoy weather geekery and record-chasing but those night time/morning temperatures would certainly kill people. Let’s hope they are wrong
    Yes.

    From my POV the biggest problem with this heatwave is it’s sheer longevity. I was up north at the weekend, walking, and it was perfect on the hills, 23c and clear. I got back down here and it
    has been 30c+ frequently and has only briefly dropped below 20c in the middle of the bloody nights. I have been trying to work and sleep in high temperatures with no relief, even in the evenings. And it’s going to get hotter.

    Grim.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,475

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
    Thanks, so he did, according to Wiki saying it was 'simply untenable now to suggest we can offer an effective opposition without a change of leader".". But isn't it amazing how he then spent three years as "Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" under the same leader immediately afterwards? even when others later resigned?
    As I explained to you, he wouldn't have been able to lead the party if he hadn't done that. Do you think he was right to take over and then remove Corbyn altogether, which he did?
    He should have had principles. He evidently had them enough to resign in 2016; but they vanished soon enough.

    He was right to take over - but that only happened because Corbyn lost an election badly. Unless you are saying that Starmer contributed to that loss by staying in position? ;)
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,285

    Strikes me that we are witnessing the rise of the No-Nonsense Women and, hopefully, the demise of entitled men.

    Penny will win, while the star of the campaign is Kemi.

    Not sure how poor old Labour will respond stuck, as they are, with a wooden white male lawyer.

    But them's the breaks, as someone once said, a long, long time ago.

    But it's a huge sea-change.

    Labour will do just fine, the new leader needs to overturn a 15 point lead.
    Unfortunately, it's probably easier than that. If they can reduce it to a 5% deficit prior to a campaign, then Labour yet again will get asked awkward questions about the SNP. Sturgeon's plan to hijack the election and turn it into plebiscite on indy will ensure that.
    Mind you, Labour do seem better prepared for that attack line than Ed was.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,968
    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Totalitarian? To have a poster suggesting that men could do something about stopping sexist hate? It’s not exactly Kristallnacht.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss, Badenoch and Braverman combined came to 122 votes, just over 1/3 of Tory MPs. So if they all combined behind one of them they would get a candidate in the final 2. However if the supporters of any of the 3 go to Sunak or Mordaunt that no longer applies and the Right’s candidate gets knocked out.

    So they cannot afford any leakage, unless Zahawi’s support mainly goes to that block not Sunak and Mordaunt

    Are you suggesting therefore there are three roughly equal "factions" within the Parliamentary Party - supporters of Sunak, supporters of Mordaunt and supporters of the best placed "right" candidate?

    This seems reminiscent of 2001 when it was alleged some MPs voted tactically to ensure Portillo wouldn't make it through to the membership voting which opened the door for Iain Duncan Smith to face and defeat Clarke.

    I begin to wonder whether Sunak might end up the Portillo of this leadership election.
    Different to 2001 though as Tugendhat is closest to Clarke ideologically of those left, Sunak and Mordaunt could be seen as closest to Portillo, Badenoch, Truss and Braverman closest to IDS
    of the last 6 remaining

    Setting aside your own preference, who do you see making the final 2 now?
    Truss and Mordaunt, just. However could be Sunak v Mordaunt if not all Badenoch and
    Braverman votes transfer to Truss
    What’s the chances of a grand Stop Truss coronation after tomorrows vote? Tommy Tug falls behind PM in exchange for foreign sec. Rishi realises he isn’t going to win and just wants his
    old job back. Kemi bought off with Home Sec,
    which might be Gove’s plan for her all along. Or are we sure this is really going to Members…?
    Unless it is Sunak v Mordaunt, in which case Sunak may drop out in return for a Cabinet post given members polls show Mordaunt trouncing him, the ERG will ensure it goes to the members as their candidate would also beat Sunak and has more of a chance v Mordaunt then Rishi does


    Keeping it away from the batshit membership and getting rid of the clown a month early; what’s not to like?
    They have all signed a “won’t drop out of in final 2” clause at the 22 havn’t they?
    How sweet that you still trust the Tories 😂
    Oh I see. “They won’t do that, because I have in my hand a piece of paper…”
  • Strikes me that we are witnessing the rise of the No-Nonsense Women and, hopefully, the demise of entitled men.

    Penny will win, while the star of the campaign is Kemi.

    Not sure how poor old Labour will respond stuck, as they are, with a wooden white male lawyer.

    But them's the breaks, as someone once said, a long, long time ago.

    But it's a huge sea-change.

    Labour will do just fine, the new leader needs to overturn a 15 point lead.
    Unfortunately, it's probably easier than that. If they can reduce it to a 5% deficit prior to a campaign, then Labour yet again will get asked awkward questions about the SNP. Sturgeon's plan to hijack the election and turn it into plebiscite on indy will ensure that.
    Mind you, Labour do seem better prepared for that attack line than Ed was.
    They must must must hammer home that they will not deal with the SNP.

    Bonus points if they can manage to annoy the SNP into attacking them publicly
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    One of the weather models has a forecast for 31C in south central England…. At 7am on Monday morning

    WTF

    I enjoy weather geekery and record-chasing but those night time/morning temperatures would certainly kill people. Let’s hope they are wrong
    Yes.

    From my POV the biggest problem with this heatwave is it’s sheer longevity. I was up north at the weekend, walking, and it was perfect on the hills, 23c and clear. I got back down here and it
    has been 30c+ frequently and has only briefly dropped below 20c in the middle of the bloody nights. I have been trying to work and sleep in high temperatures with no relief, even in the evenings. And it’s going to get hotter.

    Grim.

    Grim darn sarf.
    Perfect up north.
    Like it ;)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,292

    CatMan said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    Well who do you think are being sexist to women. Other women?
    I genuinely don't know who has so much time at Waterloo to be looking at this stuff and caring about it.

    I'm either fed up that my train is late again, sitting in Pret eating or on a train waiting for it to leave.
    This is the response of someone who doesn't want the issue to be debated.

    I remember hearing the same on a referendum on the EU in the early 2010s from those who, err, loved federalism.
    Well no it's just true.

    Can anyone hear honestly say at Waterloo they care what the advertising boards above say? You're waiting for a train to leave or in my case, probably running for a train because you left too late. My time keeping is dreadful.

    Your condescending nature as usual notwithstanding.
    Condescending = disagreeing with you.

    This winds up lots of people.

    They say so in private when they know I'm on their side. They dare not in public.
  • CatMan said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    Well who do you think are being sexist to women. Other women?
    I genuinely don't know who has so much time at Waterloo to be looking at this stuff and caring about it.

    I'm either fed up that my train is late again, sitting in Pret eating or on a train waiting for it to leave.
    This is the response of someone who doesn't want the issue to be debated.

    I remember hearing the same on a referendum on the EU in the early 2010s from those who, err, loved federalism.
    Well no it's just true.

    Can anyone hear honestly say at Waterloo they care what the advertising boards above say? You're waiting for a train to leave or in my case, probably running for a train because you left too late. My time keeping is dreadful.

    Your condescending nature as usual notwithstanding.
    Condescending = disagreeing with you.

    This winds up lots of people.

    They say so in private when they know I'm on their side. They dare not in public.
    No it's not disagreeing, it's how you structure your posts. I told you this yesterday.

    You talk to me like I'm stupid, like I am dirt on your shoe. You told me to go away and read something and them come back and tell you what it said. I am not five years old.

    Treat me with respect like I do you. Or we're done. Last chance.
  • novanova Posts: 690

    Jonathan said:

    CD13 said:

    I understand why Labour supporters are having some fun with the Tories' choices, but their last three selections didn't make hearts leap with joy.

    Starmer is passibly competent when presented with an open goal but struggles otherwise. Five out of ten. Jeremy Corbyn was a joke, designed to implode at the first opportunity. Zero out of ten, and that's being kind. Ed Milliband. Couldn't eat a sausage roll on his own, and they probably mixed up his Christian name. But forever engraved on my heart for stuffing my mouth with gold by massively inflating the payments for solar panels. Just when I received my retirement lump sum. Three out of ten for that alone.

    In fact, their last decent choice was Neil Kinnock.

    You , like a lot of people, underestimate Starmer. Against the odds he saw of Corbyn and his persistence over party gate was instrumental in seeing off Boris.
    Corbyn saw himself off by being an anti-Semitic fool, and the country realising it in 2019 (and against Boris!). Starmer 'saw him off' by bravely remaining in cabinet with him.

    That's not exactly 'seeing him off', is it?
    If Starmer hadn't served under Corbyn, he wouldn't have been able to win the leadership and then destroy the left from the inside.

    Anyone sane can see that was a good decision.
    That was a good excuse. And it was certainly a good decision for him.

    But was it a good decision for the country? If Starmer has resigned with the others in 2016 or 2018, would others have resigned? Would Corbyn's position have become untenable? Would he have stood down, and Labour got a sane leader? And would that have stopped Boris having the 2019 GE, meaning that we might now have a saner government?

    Then there are the moral arguments of serving in a Corbyn shadow cabinet - something I expect Labourites to throw against some of the current PM candidates if they win and served under Boris.
    Starmer did resign with the others in 2016.

    As to serving in Johnson's cabinet, I won't hold that against the candidates.
    Thanks, so he did, according to Wiki saying it was 'simply untenable now to suggest we can offer an effective opposition without a change of leader".". But isn't it amazing how he then spent three years as "Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" under the same leader immediately afterwards? even when others later resigned?
    As I explained to you, he wouldn't have been able to lead the party if he hadn't done that. Do you think he was right to take over and then remove Corbyn altogether, which he did?
    Someone else would have been able to lead the party, though, which means Starmer put personal ambition above principle. Or are you saying that there was no other candidate for leader - or that the Labour party would not have elected those candidates - who would have been willing to withdraw the whip from Corbyn after he said that accusations of antisemitism were overstated?
    Who? Can you name anyone?

    We had RLB, Laura Pidcock, Angela Rayner in the running.

    I don't think any other candidate would have done what Starmer did - and that's because he uniquely got the Corbyn wing on side.
    Surely it was Starmer, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips, Emily Thornberry and Clive Lewis?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    The best place to be on Tuesday in London is on the air-conditioned Elizabeth Line.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    MaxPB said:

    Badenoch gets my vote if she gets through.

    Yes, she's inexperienced. And Boris and Rishi weren't? Both had done fuck all 5 years ago.

    Kemi is fast, courageous, and smart, and will quickly learn on the job.

    Kemi.

    Agreed. Additionally Labour will tie themselves in knots to try and denounce the Tories as racist with a black woman in power. I wonder what Uncle Tom is for women.
    If you want to see racism, look at the Left’s reaction to someone from an ethnic minority expressing conservative views.
    You keep droning on like this, but beyond the weirdo plains of Twitter (where you can find anyone who will say anything about anything) where are these lefties which you deem racist? I suspect it’s very possible you are imagining them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,292

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Totalitarian? To have a poster suggesting that men could do something about stopping sexist hate? It’s not exactly Kristallnacht.
    I don't want to be hectored by a corporation on what I need to do as a man on my way to work and home again. It's sanctimonious and patronising.

    The reason no-one says anything is they know the response would be: "if people don't want to buy a contract from an inclusive phone company then they are welcome to shop elsewhere".

    So, people ignore it. And quietly simmer.

  • https://news.sky.com/story/penny-mordaunt-on-course-to-be-next-pm-if-she-reaches-final-round-of-tory-leadership-race-poll-finds-12651296

    Penny Mordaunt is on course to become prime minister if she reaches the final two candidates to succeed Boris Johnson, a new YouGov poll reveals.

    The survey of 879 Conservative Party members conducted last night and today suggests the former defence secretary, who launched her campaign this morning, wins by a huge margin against all other contenders.

    The poll is bad news for Mr Sunak, the frontrunner among MPs, as he loses to all candidates apart from Nadhim Zahawi.

    Ms Mordaunt beats the former chancellor, who has the most declared MP backers at 50.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647
    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Did someone say it's posted by EE? If so, and you don't like it, don't buy anything from EE.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    Yes, the last time we had weather this hot - in 2019 - the East Coast main Line couldn't cope with the heat. I think some of the overhead lines in the Peterborough area melted and landed on top of a train, causing hours of delays and many cancellations. As I recall I was due out of Kings Cross on the 4pm train, but left early and was only a couple of hours delayed on a train leaving late in the morning. The 4pm train limped into Edinburgh Waverley at about two in the morning, six hours late.

    So, you might be okay with the 12 noon train, but I'd rebook to an earlier one if you can.
    On Monday, for completely different reasons, the 1200 WAS delayed by very nearly six hours! Luckily I'm staying in the city centre!

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L77648/2022-07-11
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    Bye!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    I blame 12 years of Tory government.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278

    Suppose Mordaunt wins. She offers Sunak a Cabinet job, but it's a demotion. Does he take it?
    I would have almost certainly said no, but given what ultimately happened to Hunt I think he might well do now. The King over the Water strategy doesn't seem to work.

    The leave Parliament in a huff strategy, because you didn't get the top job, has worked quite well for a number of ex-politicians though: Osborne, D. Miliband, Tristram Hunt, etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited July 2022

    Suppose Mordaunt wins. She offers Sunak a Cabinet job, but it's a demotion. Does he take it?
    I would have almost certainly said no, but given what ultimately happened to Hunt I think he might well do now. The King over the Water strategy doesn't seem to work.

    He's had a meteoric rise in politics, a Chancellor before he was 40, and is richer than God - if he doesn't think he will remain at the top table will he stick around beyond the next election?

    I cannot see another winner offering him the same job, they'll want an ally there, but if he's sensible he'd take a meaty mid level Cabinet position.

    If they offer you DCMS you know they want to humiliate you. If they offer you Northern Ireland, you know they hate you.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Are we getting any reports from the hustings?

    I think they could be quite critical to how tomorrow plays out
  • Mordaunt has the momentum now, Sunak is screwed.

    Go heavily on Mordaunt.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    Surely you could have left when political correctness had gone mad?

    Why wait for Woke?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    They’re not alone.

    https://twitter.com/DougChapmanSNP/status/1547270996541014018
    Just been ejected from the HoC for not wearing a tie/jacket in the Chamber. It’s above 28C+ and a call was put out yesterday on the internal Parliament site regarding well-being during this heatwave. To cap it all, I signed and EDM on the Maximum Temperature in the Workplace.

    Though some fool is proposing to spend £22bn on that…
    100% with the MP on this topic. Quite apart from the fact that making people boil to death for the sake of observing Edwardian period etiquette isn't really on, these dress codes are ludicrously sexist.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    12 years of Tory mis-rule.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,023

    Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    algarkirk said:

    SFAICS Penny is favourite for only one reason, and that a remarkable one: she isn't one of the others.

    That's worked for other candidates in the past (e.g., Jim Hacker).

    I think Mordaunt has more going for her. She's a new face, but with some experience. She's not tied to Boris. She's not on the crazy right of the party, but isn't too far over to the left. Tory members like her back story. She can get the support of both an Andrea Leadsom and a Caroline Nokes. I can see why she's popular.
    Not old, not new, not Boris, not a rebel, not right, not left, NOTA.
    Now that Penny Mordaunt is the front-runner, there will be a lot of MPs replaying her launch video and googling reviews of her book in order to try and work out just what is Pennyism and whether they actually support it. And they've only got till tomorrow when the next vote is due.
    She believes in homeopathy.

    A fruitloop. Pretty. Looks good in a swimsuit. But a fruitloop. And a lying one at that.

    But she may well win.

    And this is the party that thinks it is moving on from Boris.......
    I'm aware that Mordaunt signed an EDM in favour of homeopathy, but I've not been able to find anything else showing her support.

    Also...

    The same day that she signed said EDM, was the first time she had tabled one herself (celebrating the 60th anniversary of Portsmouth twinning with Duisburg). Half the people that signed her EDM had signed the homeopathy one. May have been a bit of quid pro quo, and not necessarily confirm her belief in the magic healing power of sugar.
    An updated statement would be interesting. She'll need to, as at some point that will become mud to sling.

    An interesting list of 'supporters'. Includes Margaret Hodge, Luciana Burger, Glyn Davis, Robert Halfon and Keith Vaz. Plus a collection of Socialist Campaign Group types, but no Jeremy Corbyn.

    In 2019 France spent 620m on it, a third from Social Security - but now they have followed us and stopped Govt money going on it.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-stops-funding-homeopathy-wxtrp6dnv
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    ydoethur said:

    I hate fucking Windows. I've now been waiting 20 minutes while it says the latest update, which I didn't authorise, is '100% complete.'

    It's not even written in decent English.

    You cannot fight Windows, ydoethur. Give it a few decades and if the big four have their way you'd be blacklisted for that kind of talk against them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    In the Tory leaderships races of 1997, 2001 and 2005 the person who came second in the first ballot won. (Hague, IDS, Cameron). Stat via @DominicPenna
  • Tonight at 1922 hustings I asked every candidate the same question- will they commit to maintaining our legislative commitment to net zero by 2050. Organising CEN MP caucus hustings for Mon morning as well- keen to keep environment and climate change on the agenda in the contest

    On the target:
    Yes to Net Zero 2050: Rishi, Penny, Liz
    Move Net Zero target back: Suella, Tom T
    Change concept of target to be more accountable/delivery plan: Kemi
    Penny and Liz would also suspend green levies

    Go Penny!
  • Jeremy Hunt says he is backing Rishi Sunak in the Conservative Party leadership contest, after going out in the first round of voting today

    For more on this and other news visit

    Big news
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    boulay said:

    One thing that always strikes me/annoys me is that we have potential PMs on this list who we think we know - Sunak and Truss - and don’t know, Kemi, Penny (use of first names as couldn’t be bothered to type them realised this explanation took longer to type).

    All of them however have been subservient. They have either been subservient to things like cabinet responsibility, youth, not wanting to scare the horses on their way up, their local electorate.

    We can try and judge them by what they have said or done in the past but actually nobody knows what they will do when unshackled and they have control.

    It’s easy to criticise these people for what they have said, how they have voted, policies but they have never had the freedom to say “bollocks to that, I want it done this way”.

    So Penny might fuck up the trans thing whilst an MP because she’s treading a fine line with where her superiors say she needs to walk, Sunak makes policies on spending but his boss wants different things so he can’t do what he really would if in charge, Keli hasn’t had the ability to break free and Truss has to go with what her programmers input.

    Whoever wins it will be very interesting to see if they really can break free and do something different or if there is some weird inertia that never allows politicians to be radical.

    You never watched Yes Minister?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    It was 25 degrees this morning when I woke at 6am. I then went for a run in Central Park.

    Surprised you didn't come across a body - I think approximately 200 episodes of Law and Order have started that exact same way.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,691
    Of all the shitty things going in with the world that seems a strange thing to be getting wound up about. ymmv
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647

    Tonight at 1922 hustings I asked every candidate the same question- will they commit to maintaining our legislative commitment to net zero by 2050. Organising CEN MP caucus hustings for Mon morning as well- keen to keep environment and climate change on the agenda in the contest

    On the target:
    Yes to Net Zero 2050: Rishi, Penny, Liz
    Move Net Zero target back: Suella, Tom T
    Change concept of target to be more accountable/delivery plan: Kemi
    Penny and Liz would also suspend green levies

    Go Penny!

    If you're going to quote from a tweet or similar please at least include an attribution, or better still a link, so that we know it's not just you saying this.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    One of the weather models has a forecast for 31C in south central England…. At 7am on Monday morning

    WTF

    I enjoy weather geekery and record-chasing but those night time/morning temperatures would certainly kill people. Let’s hope they are wrong
    Yes.

    From my POV the biggest problem with this heatwave is it’s sheer longevity. I was up north at the weekend, walking, and it was perfect on the hills, 23c and clear. I got back down here and it
    has been 30c+ frequently and has only briefly dropped below 20c in the middle of the bloody nights. I have been trying to work and sleep in high temperatures with no relief, even in the evenings. And it’s going to get hotter.

    Grim.
    Haven't you previously said that the reason people move to London is because the weather is better down south?
  • Tonight at 1922 hustings I asked every candidate the same question- will they commit to maintaining our legislative commitment to net zero by 2050. Organising CEN MP caucus hustings for Mon morning as well- keen to keep environment and climate change on the agenda in the contest

    https://twitter.com/CSkidmoreUK/status/1547302977815322625

    On the target:
    Yes to Net Zero 2050: Rishi, Penny, Liz
    Move Net Zero target back: Suella, Tom T
    Change concept of target to be more accountable/delivery plan: Kemi
    Penny and Liz would also suspend green levies

    https://twitter.com/CSkidmoreUK/status/1547305522617110528

    Go Penny!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    algarkirk said:

    SFAICS Penny is favourite for only one reason, and that a remarkable one: she isn't one of the others.

    That's worked for other candidates in the past (e.g., Jim Hacker).

    I think Mordaunt has more going for her. She's a new face, but with some experience. She's not tied to Boris. She's not on the crazy right of the party, but isn't too far over to the left. Tory members like her back story. She can get the support of both an Andrea Leadsom and a Caroline Nokes. I can see why she's popular.
    Not old, not new, not Boris, not a rebel, not right, not left, NOTA.
    Now that Penny Mordaunt is the front-runner, there will be a lot of MPs replaying her launch video and googling reviews of her book in order to try and work out just what is Pennyism and whether they actually support it. And they've only got till tomorrow when the next vote is due.
    She believes in homeopathy.

    A fruitloop. Pretty. Looks good in a swimsuit. But a fruitloop. And a lying one at that.

    But she may well win.

    And this is the party that thinks it is moving on from Boris.......
    I'm aware that Mordaunt signed an EDM in favour of homeopathy, but I've not been able to find anything else showing her support.

    Also...

    The same day that she signed said EDM, was the first time she had tabled one herself (celebrating the 60th anniversary of Portsmouth twinning with Duisburg). Half the people that signed

    her EDM had signed the homeopathy one. May have been a bit of quid pro quo, and not

    necessarily confirm her belief in the magic healing power of sugar.
    All fair points well made but as this is pedantic betting: Isn’t homeopathy water rather than sugar?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    IshmaelZ said:

    OK, so I'm officially scared about conditions on Tuesday - my train from Kings Cross to Inverness departs at 12pm (I return on Friday evening).

    12pm is meaningless. Midnight or midday? And why not do the sleeper, if you aren't?
    12pm is midday 12am is midnight
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,453
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    Suppose Mordaunt wins. She offers Sunak a Cabinet job, but it's a demotion. Does he take it?
    I would have almost certainly said no, but given what ultimately happened to Hunt I think he might well do now. The King over the Water strategy doesn't seem to work.

    He's had a meteoric rise in politics, a Chancellor before he was 40, and is richer than God - if he doesn't think he will remain at the top table will he stick around beyond the next election?

    I cannot see another winner offering him the same job, they'll want an ally there, but if he's sensible he'd take a meaty mid level Cabinet position.

    If they offer you DCMS you know they want to humiliate you. If they offer you Northern Ireland, you know they hate you.
    I would create a role for him - almost like an ambassador job - to liaise with tech companies etc globally to find ways to bring elements of the companies to the UK and work with the gov to find the best incentives to attract them whilst maximalising what the country gets out of them being here.

    Best utilises his treasury experience. His investment experience, his global contacts and global outlook.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited July 2022
    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So the heatwave has been downgraded…. Only to be upgraded

    40C now forecast for Tuesday across parts of central, eastern England (as far north as Yorkshire)

    That’s a mind-boggling temp. And now just 6 days away it is within the reasonably likely timeframe (tho it could still be derailed, natch)

    You wonder if schools will be able to open in those temperatures. The appalling build quality - cramped, badly ventilated, too much glass and concrete - that was such a curse during Covid is not less of an issue in high temperatures.
    They’re not alone.

    https://twitter.com/DougChapmanSNP/status/1547270996541014018
    Just been ejected from the HoC for not wearing a tie/jacket in the Chamber. It’s above 28C+ and a call was put out yesterday on the internal Parliament site regarding well-being during this heatwave. To cap it all, I signed and EDM on the Maximum Temperature in the Workplace.

    Though some fool is proposing to spend £22bn on that…
    100% with the MP on this topic. Quite apart from the fact that making people boil to death for the sake of observing Edwardian period etiquette isn't really on, these dress codes are ludicrously sexist.
    I'm in favour of MPs being required to wear formal attire whilst in the Commons. I just think it's more professional, though I know some will disagree. However, any reasonable chair would apply any such rules in relaxed fashion during a period of such intense uncomfort.

    But I find that story strange for another reason- Erskine May is clear a tie is not a requirement.

    Members should dress in business-like attire; this need not include a tie.

    https://erskinemay.parliament.uk/section/4889/members-dress/?highlight=attire

    It even states

    Formerly it was the custom for gentlemen Members to wear jackets and ties, but this was not enforced in all circumstances

    So the rules are perfectly sensible
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,762
    kle4 said:

    Suppose Mordaunt wins. She offers Sunak a Cabinet job, but it's a demotion. Does he take it?
    I would have almost certainly said no, but given what ultimately happened to Hunt I think he might well do now. The King over the Water strategy doesn't seem to work.

    He's had a meteoric rise in politics, a Chancellor before he was 40, and is richer than God - if he doesn't think he will remain at the top table will he stick around beyond the next election?

    I cannot see another winner offering him the same job, they'll want an ally there, but if he's sensible he'd take a meaty mid level Cabinet position.

    If they offer you DCMS you know they want to humiliate you. If they offer you Northern Ireland, you know they hate you.
    Can Rishi be demoted? It depends how the rest of the election plays out but it would be tempting fate to embarrass a rival backed by half the parliamentary party.

    In any case, Rishi can afford to stick around even if technically demoted. The new PM's ministry might well flop, leading to yet another leader even before the next general election. Boris is also said to have this in mind.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Why aren't they having hustings on the cost of living and the economy generally?
    Instead of woke and climate change?
This discussion has been closed.