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How the betting markets reacted to the 1st round result – politicalbetting.com

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  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194
    Andy_JS said:

    Iain Dale on Newsnight: good result for Mordaunt, Badenoch. Mediocre result: Sunak, Truss. Bad result: Hunt.

    Grouped like that, kinda makes sense.

    Sunak and Truss are too tied to Bozza to be really credible as replacements. Hunt is a mental return to summer 2019, and nobody wants that.
    Mordaunt and Badenoch are attempts to move on. They might not be good attempts to move on, but the principle is sound.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,448

    Andy_JS said:

    Iain Dale on Newsnight: good result for Mordaunt, Badenoch. Mediocre result: Sunak, Truss. Bad result: Hunt.

    It sort of goes without saying that being knocked out is a bad result!
    But not mediocre? 😂

    Is he an expert or Penny cheerleader?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    rcs1000 said:

    Watching Pesto. Team Sunak's cheerleader tonight is the airheaded Lucy Frazer. Come on Rishi shape up, she is useless.

    I was at University with her (albeit she was a few years older than me), and I ran the ball when she was President of the Union.

    She didn't seem like an airhead, and is a QC IIRC.
    We often criticise politicians for being dim, but most of them have impressive CVs (even Richard Burgon) and it seems unlikely that too many thickies would slip through the exacting entry requirements.
    Maybe politics is just very difficult.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,027
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    we have now given dall-e 2 access to 100,000 users. next goal: 1 million.

    https://twitter.com/sama/status/1547212678644371457?s=20&t=5QdgCydzNEF1OqOjXTc_Qw

    I welcome our robot overlords and I am willing to serve them.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    If Dorries , JRM and Truss are all against Mordaunt then that’s a good sign and hopefully if she wins they’ll be nowhere near the cabinet .

    I’m surprised Sunak does so badly against her in head to head polls of Tory members .

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,235
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I do find it bizarre that a political party can set the rules after the contest starts. Surely you use the rules in place when the previous leader steps down? Same with the Labour Party, allowing members to join after the leader resigns and still vote.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I agree, but they always seem to make it up on the hoof.
    That allows for all sorts of exciting possibilities. Next round: the assault course. Then a yard of ale contest, then weeding the gardens of the 1922 Committee.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,969
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Totalitarian? To have a poster suggesting that men could do something about stopping sexist hate? It’s not exactly Kristallnacht.
    I don't want to be hectored by a corporation on what I need to do as a man on my way to work and home again. It's sanctimonious and patronising.

    The reason no-one says anything is they know the response would be: "if people don't want to buy a contract from an inclusive phone company then they are welcome to shop elsewhere".

    So, people ignore it. And quietly simmer.

    So, you’re saying because of your hurt feelings, we should do away with free speech?
    We can always choose Kemi Badenoch as PM as she will ban Ben and Jerrys ice-cream on grounds of wokeness. Focusing on the priorities, clearly.
    She didn't really say that, did she? Goodness me.
    No

    "The right has lost its confidence and courage and ability to defend the free market as the fairest way of helping people prosper. It has been undermined by a willingness to embrace protectionism for special interests. It's been undermined by retreating in the face of the Ben and Jerry's tendency, those who say a business's main priority is social justice, not productivity and profits, and it's been undermined by the actions of crony capitalists, who collude with big bureaucracy to rig the system in favour of incumbents against entrepreneurs. "
    What right does she have to tell how private companies conduct their affairs?
    Given that said companies want to lecture me about how I conduct my affairs, I think you, I, and she have exactly that right.
    Why do you care so much? I just do not get it
    Because it’s unpleasant to be constantly hectored? Because being told you're a bad person is tiresome? Because living in the 2020s feels like being fed a constant tirade of identity politics?
    I suppose if you agree with the positions being put out you don't notice. If your initial reaction though is "well things are more complex than that" - it makes things exhausting.
    I come here for my dose of political debate. I don't want it everywhere. We used to be quite good at separating out the political from the non political.
    It’s a digital display. I don’t see now that constitutes hectoring. How do you make it through any urban public space?

    It doesn’t seem to me to be telling me (a man) that I’m a bad person. It’s encouraging me to do more to stop sexist hate, not saying I am committing sexist hate.

    Addressing something to a male audience isn’t exactly radical identity politics. Adverts for decades, centuries even, have aimed themselves at one sex or the other. Yorkie bars for men, remember that?

    You characterise it as being political. I don’t think trying to reduce misogyny in football is political.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,448

    Mail panics...


    Quite right too! LOL. The right beloved by the mail have about 24hrs to sort themselves out or more might fail to give the members a candidate. That would be Dee lish usssss 🤤
    Yes, it would be quite something to see them frozen out.
    My mum would hate that 🤭

    And they might already have blown it, those 72 votes for Braverman and Badenoch having given Penny the Big Mo, crucial in such election, just 21 of them to Truss would be different headlines tonight!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    nico679 said:

    If Dorries , JRM and Truss are all against Mordaunt then that’s a good sign and hopefully if she wins they’ll be nowhere near the cabinet .

    I’m surprised Sunak does so badly against her in head to head polls of Tory members .

    I wonder how much is a subconscious desire to reinstate Thatcher? How many Tory members instinctively want a powerful woman at the wheel for that reason?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I do find it bizarre that a political party can set the rules after the contest starts. Surely you use the rules in place when the previous leader steps down? Same with the Labour Party, allowing members to join after the leader resigns and still vote.
    Any contest at all, really, should have its rules set out before it starts. My 7 year old daughter likes to change the rules of a game midstream and it rarely ends well.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,346
    nico679 said:

    If Dorries , JRM and Truss are all against Mordaunt then that’s a good sign and hopefully if she wins they’ll be nowhere near the cabinet .

    I’m surprised Sunak does so badly against her in head to head polls of Tory members .

    JRM and Nadine have concentrated their fire on Sunak so far. Let's hope that continues.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I agree, but they always seem to make it up on the hoof.
    That allows for all sorts of exciting possibilities. Next round: the assault course. Then a yard of ale contest, then weeding the gardens of the 1922 Committee.
    If they are doing the Krypton Factor then I reckon Kemi will land the plane.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Watching Pesto. Team Sunak's cheerleader tonight is the airheaded Lucy Frazer. Come on Rishi shape up, she is useless.

    I was at University with her (albeit she was a few years older than me), and I ran the ball when she was President of the Union.

    She didn't seem like an airhead, and is a QC IIRC.
    We often criticise politicians for being dim, but most of them have impressive CVs (even Richard Burgon) and it seems unlikely that too many thickies would slip through the exacting entry requirements.
    Maybe politics is just very difficult.
    There is something in that, many MPs are quite impressive face to face. There is something in the way our governance and particularly how our politics works which seems to really shear off much of their outward personality, and they fall into a lot of lazy cliches and uninformed commentary, along with (officially at least) a rigidity of thought that can look pretty stupid.

    However, this does not explain all of them, even if they appeared intelligent in some other career.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    biggles said:

    we have now given dall-e 2 access to 100,000 users. next goal: 1 million.

    https://twitter.com/sama/status/1547212678644371457?s=20&t=5QdgCydzNEF1OqOjXTc_Qw

    I welcome our robot overlords and I am willing to serve them.
    And I can serve you, the system provides for all!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    36m
    Who next week will emerge top of the contest to be Tories’ new leader and UK PM (or more accurately who will be the two who go to a run-off for Tory members’ votes)? Exclusive research for #Peston (see attached) shows Mordaunt ends up first, with Sunak 2nd!
    @patrickjfl

    @smarkets
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    biggles said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I agree, but they always seem to make it up on the hoof.
    That allows for all sorts of exciting possibilities. Next round: the assault course. Then a yard of ale contest, then weeding the gardens of the 1922 Committee.
    If they are doing the Krypton Factor then I reckon Kemi will land the plane.
    Don't forget the Burma rope-bridge and the zip-wire!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

  • kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Watching Pesto. Team Sunak's cheerleader tonight is the airheaded Lucy Frazer. Come on Rishi shape up, she is useless.

    I was at University with her (albeit she was a few years older than me), and I ran the ball when she was President of the Union.

    She didn't seem like an airhead, and is a QC IIRC.
    We often criticise politicians for being dim, but most of them have impressive CVs (even Richard Burgon) and it seems unlikely that too many thickies would slip through the exacting entry requirements.
    Maybe politics is just very difficult.
    There is something in that, many MPs are quite impressive face to face. There is something in the way our governance and particularly how our politics works which seems to really shear off much of their outward personality, and they fall into a lot of lazy cliches and uninformed commentary, along with (officially at least) a rigidity of thougth that can looks pretty stupid.

    However, this does not explain all of them, even if they appeared intelligent in some other career.
    It is why I always felt sorry for Dianne Abbott.

    If you listen to her speak about 10 years ago+, she's actually very good. Competent, sensible, sane.

    She has gone rapidly downhill since then. She is clearly not stupid, she went to Cambridge. Something has gone wrong with either her health or otherwise.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    If Dorries , JRM and Truss are all against Mordaunt then that’s a good sign and hopefully if she wins they’ll be nowhere near the cabinet .

    I’m surprised Sunak does so badly against her in head to head polls of Tory members .

    I wonder how much is a subconscious desire to reinstate Thatcher? How many Tory members instinctively want a powerful woman at the wheel for that reason?
    Not sure Thatcher revisited would go down well in the Red Wall.

    Regardless my hope is that we can at least have a PM who isn’t a pathological liar .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I do find it bizarre that a political party can set the rules after the contest starts. Surely you use the rules in place when the previous leader steps down? Same with the Labour Party, allowing members to join after the leader resigns and still vote.
    Any contest at all, really, should have its rules set out before it starts. My 7 year old daughter likes to change the rules of a game midstream and it rarely ends well.
    It does for her!
  • Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    Rishi is an absolute lightweight and disaster. This has been evident for over a year now, the man is a muppet.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647


    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    36m
    Who next week will emerge top of the contest to be Tories’ new leader and UK PM (or more accurately who will be the two who go to a run-off for Tory members’ votes)? Exclusive research for #Peston (see attached) shows Mordaunt ends up first, with Sunak 2nd!
    @patrickjfl

    @smarkets

    No shit Sherlock!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I don't know, she was looking it up on her phone, so I'm not sure the source or the context. Whatever she was reading (and I can't imagine she'd be sourcing it from anywhere too overtly partisan) noted that religion was a key part of her hinterland - but I've learned more from you just now than I previously knew. I mention it only as a "this is the impression people seem to be getting" anecdatum.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    we have now given dall-e 2 access to 100,000 users. next goal: 1 million. HYFUD

    ;)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,969

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Totalitarian? To have a poster suggesting that men could do something about stopping sexist hate? It’s not exactly Kristallnacht.
    I don't want to be hectored by a corporation on what I need to do as a man on my way to work and home again. It's sanctimonious and patronising.

    The reason no-one says anything is they know the response would be: "if people don't want to buy a contract from an inclusive phone company then they are welcome to shop elsewhere".

    So, people ignore it. And quietly simmer.

    So, you’re saying because of your hurt feelings, we should do away with free speech?
    It's not "free speech". This isn't about denying an individual the ability to freely express their views without fear or censure: this is about a megacorporation exploiting its financial muscle to buy up a massive public space and scream it in your face every day, day in day out.

    We've all agreed Steve Bray is a dickhead, and what he does can't just be defended with "free speech".

    This is the corporate Steve Bray.
    So your objection isn’t too free speech, it’s too capitalism?
    My objection is too many 'o's ;-)
    Sorry. Spellchecker gone mad.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited July 2022
    nico679 said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    If Dorries , JRM and Truss are all against Mordaunt then that’s a good sign and hopefully if she wins they’ll be nowhere near the cabinet .

    I’m surprised Sunak does so badly against her in head to head polls of Tory members .

    I wonder how much is a subconscious desire to reinstate Thatcher? How many Tory members instinctively want a powerful woman at the wheel for that reason?
    Not sure Thatcher revisited would go down well in the Red Wall.

    Regardless my hope is that we can at least have a PM who isn’t a pathological liar .
    In the same way I think they should wear the logo of every company that has sponsored them (a brilliant OMLP idea which I think really is a good idea) why not some sort of badge for every time they have had to correct themselves in the House.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Walker MP was saying earlier that the 1922 Committee might set another bar for the next round, somewhere between 40 and 50 votes. Does anyone know whether this has been put in place?

    'Might? Shouldn't they have sorted all this out before they started?
    I do find it bizarre that a political party can set the rules after the contest starts. Surely you use the rules in place when the previous leader steps down? Same with the Labour Party, allowing members to join after the leader resigns and still vote.
    Any contest at all, really, should have its rules set out before it starts. My 7 year old daughter likes to change the rules of a game midstream and it rarely ends well.
    It does for her!
    Congratulations Prime Minister Brady, then!)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,337
    It's good to see that Kemi is so critical of crony capitalism.

    However, it does make me wonder whether she's in the right party.
  • It's good to see that Kemi is so critical of crony capitalism.

    However, it does make me wonder whether she's in the right party.

    Her solution to crony capitalism seems to be telling Unilever to stop being so woke.

    She's just like Cummings, she identifies genuine problems but has no solutions.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    This may be a bit out there, but...
    If you have a twin of the opposite sex don't you have a living example of what it would be to be trans?
    I mean. You literally shared a womb with it. And grew up with it. It's there every day.

    Non-identical twins are no closer related than any full siblings.
    With respect that isn't the point at all.
    With respect, your point is complete B******.

    SIblings born roughly one year apart of different sex also "grow up with it. It's there every day", but no one is claiming that these siblings "know what it is like to be trans". OK fraternal twins shared a womb, but that is hardly going to make you think as a teenager/adult "I know what it is like to be trans, because for 9 months that I can't remember at all was spent sharing a womb with a girl/boy"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613
    What is Steve Baker's game?

    Massively supporting Braverman.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    Rishi is an absolute lightweight and disaster. This has been evident for over a year now, the man is a muppet.
    Nah, the muppets are good.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813


    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    36m
    Who next week will emerge top of the contest to be Tories’ new leader and UK PM (or more accurately who will be the two who go to a run-off for Tory members’ votes)? Exclusive research for #Peston (see attached) shows Mordaunt ends up first, with Sunak 2nd!
    @patrickjfl

    @smarkets

    Peston research....Starts backing the other candidates bigly....
  • eristdoof said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    Rishi is an absolute lightweight and disaster. This has been evident for over a year now, the man is a muppet.
    Nah, the muppets are good.
    He's a moron then.

    I am not in general good on the Tory Party but I called Sunak rubbish and a lightweight in the middle of 2021 and I was absolutely spot on.

    He would be a dream candidate for Labour to face.

    I think they roll the dice but Penny has the best chance of a 1992 repeat. They should go for her.
  • When is The Jav going to endorse PM?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613
    ..


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498


    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    36m
    Who next week will emerge top of the contest to be Tories’ new leader and UK PM (or more accurately who will be the two who go to a run-off for Tory members’ votes)? Exclusive research for #Peston (see attached) shows Mordaunt ends up first, with Sunak 2nd!
    @patrickjfl

    @smarkets

    Peston research....Starts backing the other candidates bigly....
    Is he trying to provoke a run on the Rishi?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    What is Steve Baker's game?

    Massively supporting Braverman.

    He's a natural outsider. His instincts probably naturally lean toward those unlikely to win such a contest, and, in fairness to him, not seek to kowtow even to those he backs who do win such a contest.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613
    eristdoof said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    Rishi is an absolute lightweight and disaster. This has been evident for over a year now, the man is a muppet.
    Nah, the muppets are good.
    Certainly taller.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    ..


    The future of our country is to choose between different shares of blue candidates?

    Well, Jeremy Corbyn would probably agree given the current Labour leadership, though he would lament it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,053
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    Cultural Christian usually means “likes churches, Christmas, Easter, nativity plays and some of the moral philosophy but doesn’t actually believe in Sky Faries”
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    How old was he? I must admit, I probably didn't have any working class friends until the age of about 19 - and even then the very specific sort of working class who despite a working class childhood were now sort of between classes at university and would soon be joining the middle classes. I grew up in a massive middle class ghetto and there were about 10,000 privately owned suburban houses closer to me than the nearest council house. I don't expect Rishi's childhood was much edgier.
  • kle4 said:

    What is Steve Baker's game?

    Massively supporting Braverman.

    He's a natural outsider. His instincts probably naturally lean toward those unlikely to win such a contest, and, in fairness to him, not seek to kowtow even to those he backs who do win such a contest.
    Baker is one of the very few Brexiteers and Tories left who I respect, I agree with him on basically nothing but he is sincere. In a way a bit like David Davis who worked passionately with Jeremy Corbyn of all people, I also respect him for fighting for civil liberties.

    But Baker has got this one wrong, really very wrong.
  • kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Watching Pesto. Team Sunak's cheerleader tonight is the airheaded Lucy Frazer. Come on Rishi shape up, she is useless.

    I was at University with her (albeit she was a few years older than me), and I ran the ball when she was President of the Union.

    She didn't seem like an airhead, and is a QC IIRC.
    We often criticise politicians for being dim, but most of them have impressive CVs (even Richard Burgon) and it seems unlikely that too many thickies would slip through the exacting entry requirements.
    Maybe politics is just very difficult.
    There is something in that, many MPs are quite impressive face to face. There is something in the way our governance and particularly how our politics works which seems to really shear off much of their outward personality, and they fall into a lot of lazy cliches and uninform
    ed commentary, along with (officially at least) a rigidity of thougth that can looks pretty stupid.

    However, this does not explain all of them, even if they appeared intelligent in some other career.
    It is why I always felt sorry for Dianne Abbott.

    If you listen to her speak about 10 years ago+, she's actually very good. Competent, sensible, sane.

    She has gone rapidly downhill since then. She is clearly not stupid, she went to Cambridge. Something has gone wrong with either her health or
    otherwise.
    Abbott was always a dimbo, going to Cantab proves nowt

  • kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Watching Pesto. Team Sunak's cheerleader tonight is the airheaded Lucy Frazer. Come on Rishi shape up, she is useless.

    I was at University with her (albeit she was a few years older than me), and I ran the ball when she was President of the Union.

    She didn't seem like an airhead, and is a QC IIRC.
    We often criticise politicians for being dim, but most of them have impressive CVs (even Richard Burgon) and it seems unlikely that too many thickies would slip through the exacting entry requirements.
    Maybe politics is just very difficult.
    There is something in that, many MPs are quite impressive face to face. There is something in the way our governance and particularly how our politics works which seems to really shear off much of their outward personality, and they fall into a lot of lazy cliches and uninform
    ed commentary, along with (officially at least) a rigidity of thougth that can looks pretty stupid.

    However, this does not explain all of them, even if they appeared intelligent in some other career.
    It is why I always felt sorry for Dianne Abbott.

    If you listen to her speak about 10 years ago+, she's actually very good. Competent, sensible, sane.

    She has gone rapidly downhill since then. She is clearly not stupid, she went to Cambridge. Something has gone wrong with either her health or
    otherwise.
    Abbott was always a dimbo, going to Cantab proves nowt

    No she wasn't, she has become very bad in the last decade but prior to that she was very articulate. I stand by that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485

    Interesting. Do I detect a bit of race bias in the Conservative members polled? Who'da thunk it, eh?

    You mean because the white men are the least popular?
    No, I mean in those 17 match ups shown the white candidate beats the BAME candidate with the Conservative members polled in 7 instances whilst the BAME candidate beats the white candidate in only 2 instances.

    Clear bias from the Conservative members polled.

    As well you know.
    Or maybe they just think Mordaunt is the best candidate?
    Just a quick look at the Sunak column will tell you there's more to it than that.

    My hypothesis: Quite a few Conservative members are racist and won't vote for a BAME candidate. The YouGov poll supports that hypothesis. If I am right it has betting implications.

    Just putting it out there.
    Why is Badenoch coming second in most membership polls then when all candidates are put?
    ConHome polls not Tory members.
    Nope.

    image

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/07/13/penny-mordaunt-clear-favourite-next-conservative-l
    Liz and Rishi now yesterday's Cabinet players.....

    And as such, their offers of patronage are worthless.
    I appreciate your excitement Mark, with how it’s going for your gal you backed long time back.

    Pulling you back to earth for a moment, what would be Penny’s platform and pitch to the country, if she leads into a general election? Rooted in Conservative values?
    Personality driven, like Boris success? Or leaning on the success of her policies and performance from now to General Election?
    Before that, she needs a Cabinet delivering so that she can argue it is no time to change. Lots of new blood, not people Boris owed a Brexit favour to. I expect a very different looking Cabinet. Some will not be great at their jobs, so expect a ruthless streak for those who don't shape up.

    Just looking capable at helping the country through the CoL issues this winter will be what voters are judging her on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    Cultural Christian usually means “likes churches, Christmas, Easter, nativity plays and some of the moral philosophy but doesn’t actually believe in Sky Faries”
    It might also mean that someone thinks much of the culture of this country is indelibly linked to its christian history, so that even if they are a radical atheist they concede their philosophical/moral frameworks will have been influenced by it, for better and worse.

    (I recall when reading Dominion by Tom Holland that he rather pushed that idea a bit hard for me to buy it as much as he seemed to suggest)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,448
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    Don’t you agree with me, the Premiership footballer charged with rape last week, but denies he did it, should still currently be suspended by his club? Because he isn’t.

    Is it “too woke” to expect that?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613

    kle4 said:

    What is Steve Baker's game?

    Massively supporting Braverman.

    He's a natural outsider. His instincts probably naturally lean toward those unlikely to win such a contest, and, in fairness to him, not seek to kowtow even to those he backs who do win such a contest.
    Baker is one of the very few Brexiteers and Tories left who I respect, I agree with him on basically nothing but he is sincere. In a way a bit like David Davis who worked passionately with Jeremy Corbyn of all people, I also respect him for fighting for civil liberties.

    But Baker has got this one wrong, really very wrong.
    The only way I can see it makes sense is she is the hardest and most firm Brexiteer in the race and nothing else matters to him.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278

    ..


    I much prefer the shade of blue chosen by Badenoch.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    GB News positioning on COVID is just weird, anti-lockdown, often anti-vax. Their demographic is oldies, right leaning, Brexit types.....oldies couldn't wait to get their jabs fast enough because quite rightly they were scared shitless of COVID.

    Its not like the US where substantial right wing people were anti-vax / anti-lockdown / anti-mask etc....here, yes there is a fringe on both left and right, but it just isn't the same, it was more a battle of just how much economic support their should be and quite when freedoms should return, not anti-vaxxing.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,448
    eristdoof said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    Rishi is an absolute lightweight and disaster. This has been evident for over a year now, the man is a muppet.
    Nah, the muppets are good.
    Sounds like a Waldorf and Statler punchline. 🙂
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    Don’t you agree with me, the Premiership footballer charged with rape last week, but denies he did it, should still currently be suspended by his club? Because he isn’t.

    Is it “too woke” to expect that?
    Rape has always been illegal. Nothing to do with woke. I don't know why he isn't suspended.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,027
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I don't know, she was looking it up on her phone, so I'm not sure the source or the context. Whatever she was reading (and I can't imagine she'd be sourcing it from anywhere too overtly partisan) noted that religion was a key part of her hinterland - but I've learned more from you just now than I previously knew. I mention it only as a "this is the impression people seem to be getting" anecdatum.
    Thank-you.

    For a collection of Tories, it is surprising to me how little CofE there is that we have seen.

    I don't see anyone like - eg - Theresa May, who is an habitual church attender. I can quite see her as a Churchwarden or Lay Minister at some stage.

    Badenoch is married to a Roman Catholic, so may well have adopted that denomination, either as a member of the 'community' (eg Easter / Christmas), or more committed.

    It's quite a cross-section of faiths across the piece, and everyone comes across as pragmatic. There may be some soft-pedalling going on, though.

    The possible exceptions I have noted are Steve Baker (particularly) and perhaps Jeremy Hunt.

    I'm not really able to evaluate depth of commitment for other religions without some more background reading.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613

    GB News positioning on COVID is just weird, anti-lockdown, often anti-vax. Their demographic is oldies, right leaning, Brexit types.....oldies couldn't wait to get their jabs fast enough because quite rightly they were scared shitless of COVID.

    Its not like the US where substantial right wing people were anti-vax / anti-lockdown / anti-mask etc....here, yes there is a fringe on both left and right, but it just isn't the same.
    In that clip the guy seemed to blame the Queen.

    Good fecking luck with that one GMB.

    Closed by end of year.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,695
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    If your wife is that anti Christian, Labour are welcome to her
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    Don’t you agree with me, the Premiership footballer charged with rape last week, but denies he did it, should still currently be suspended by his club? Because he isn’t.

    Is it “too woke” to expect that?
    Rape has always been illegal. Nothing to do with woke. I don't know why he isn't suspended.
    Its an interesting decision by their club given another player was omitted from their side for the whole of last season for similar reasons.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613
    Farooq said:

    Big billboard says "BUY THIS SHIT YOU DON'T NEED". Warm fuzzy feelings.
    Big billboard says "MIBBE DON'T BE A C*NT". Anger erupts.

    I don't understand some of you people.

    Mark Fisher's Late Capitalism in a nutshell?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    BIG BROTHER IS JUDGING YOU

    Everywhere. I loathe it

    If I move out of the UK, and that looks increasingly possible, Woke will be a major reason
    Don’t you agree with me, the Premiership footballer charged with rape last week, but denies he did it, should still currently be suspended by his club? Because he isn’t.

    Is it “too woke” to expect that?
    What happens to most people when they are charged with a serious crime but not held on remand? Genuine question as I’ve never thought about it. Innocent until proven guilty but are they often suspended? If so, presumably on full pay so as not to be hammered at an employment tribunal if they are acquitted.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    GB News positioning on COVID is just weird, anti-lockdown, often anti-vax. Their demographic is oldies, right leaning, Brexit types.....oldies couldn't wait to get their jabs fast enough because quite rightly they were scared shitless of COVID.

    Its not like the US where substantial right wing people were anti-vax / anti-lockdown / anti-mask etc....here, yes there is a fringe on both left and right, but it just isn't the same.
    In that clip the guy seemed to blame the Queen.

    Good fecking luck with that one GMB.

    Closed by end of year.

    I have never understood the economic case for GB News....I haven't really watched it, but it seems a proper weird channel in so many respects.
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uim9mrg9Et4

    GB News Fails, minutes of fun
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Farooq said:

    Big billboard says "BUY THIS SHIT YOU DON'T NEED". Warm fuzzy feelings.
    Big billboard says "MIBBE DON'T BE A C*NT". Anger erupts.

    I don't understand some of you people.

    I think I’d event easier than that. A person paying market rates has a right to have a billboard say whatever they like, unless it’s unlawful. I therefore find it hard to care what’s on them.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    If your wife is that anti Christian, Labour are welcome to her
    Another winning electoral strategy from you.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old classic "sticky" content e.g. Friends and the Office.

    There will be a couple of winners of the streaming wars, but Netflix now has a serious problem to be one of them.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    If your wife is that anti Christian, Labour are welcome to her
    Ah, yes, another person not allowed to vote Tory.
    Honestly HYUFD, you'll have no voters left if this is the line you take.
    FWIW I'm also uncomfortable with a political leader with strong religious beliefs (like Blair). Indeed, religion is so far outside my experience I find any profession of religious belief at all somewhat strange (in years sense of discomfitingly unfamiliar).
    I think her inference was perhaps that "cultural Christian" meant "a bit Bible belty " - and I think I'd be uncomfortable with that. But as has been pointed out, 'cultural' in this case was a weakened, rather than a strengthener, of the adjective 'Christian '.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,695
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    If your wife is that anti Christian, Labour are welcome to her
    Another winning electoral strategy from you.

    I would rather lose than win on an anti Christian agenda. Though in any case Christian, socially conservative Black voters are a better prospect for the Tories than secular anti Christian liberals anyway
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,027
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Wife (political bellweather) mentioned Badenoch. Said she hadn't liked what she'd heard but couldn't remember what it was she didn't like. She dug into her a bit and views were more mixed - but concerns about the idea of a party leader for whom religion is quite such a part of her hinterland.

    Where does that come from, please?

    Badenoch had a grandpa who was a Methodist Minister, and calls herself a "cultural Christian".

    The most unusual thing is that her other grandfather converted from Islam to Christianity, and I make that in Nigeria in a time of inter-community wars. So potentially an eye-opener.

    Unless it is being underplayed, that is not very much.

    Have I missed something? Is your wife nervous about the type of religion often practised amongst black communities, which tends to be a touch more passionate (!) than eg CofE?
    I think Mrs Cookie has got this one wrong.

    Kemi is on record (easily googlable) as being agnostic. It’s her husband that is the catholic.

    That's interesting.
    Maybe it was just the 'cultural Christian' thing- maybe that was inferred as 'Christian, and takes it seriously, not like these going-through-the-motions Anglicans'.
    In my experience, "cultural Christian" is usually code for 'that is a significant part of the base for my value system, but I am not a core member of a church or have my political beliefs defined only by religion'. Other terms are also used.

    For a public figure it is a useful difficult-to-nail-down phrase.

    But usage of the phrase may well be different for someone from an African culture.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Rishi video showing him as a young person saying "I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are working-class... well, not working-class" is not exactly helpful as far as his campaign is concerned.

    How old was he? I must admit, I probably didn't have any working class friends until the age of about 19 - and even then the very specific sort of working class who despite a working class childhood were now sort of between classes at university and would soon be joining the middle classes. I grew up in a massive middle class ghetto and there were about 10,000 privately owned suburban houses closer to me than the nearest council house. I don't expect Rishi's childhood was much edgier.
    It said 20 years ago so 22 if accurate.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    biggles said:

    Farooq said:

    Big billboard says "BUY THIS SHIT YOU DON'T NEED". Warm fuzzy feelings.
    Big billboard says "MIBBE DON'T BE A C*NT". Anger erupts.

    I don't understand some of you people.

    I think I’d event easier than that. A person paying market rates has a right to have a billboard say whatever they like, unless it’s unlawful. I therefore find it hard to care what’s on them.
    Well yes.
    But there's a spectrum, isn't there? I think if I were to pay for a hoarding which said "Biggles is a twat" (you aren't, of course), or "Biggles is responsible for bad things happening" (ditto), or "Biggles is responsible for bad goings happening to you" (ditto again), you might feel a bit aggrieved.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    Farooq said:

    Big billboard says "BUY THIS SHIT YOU DON'T NEED". Warm fuzzy feelings.
    Big billboard says "MIBBE DON'T BE A C*NT". Anger erupts.

    I don't understand some of you people.

    I think I’d event easier than that. A person paying market rates has a right to have a billboard say whatever they like, unless it’s unlawful. I therefore find it hard to care what’s on them.
    Well yes.
    But there's a spectrum, isn't there? I think if I were to pay for a hoarding which said "Biggles is a twat" (you aren't, of course), or "Biggles is responsible for bad things happening" (ditto), or "Biggles is responsible for bad goings happening to you" (ditto again), you might feel a bit aggrieved.
    Fair point.

    Though I suppose I could just buy a bigger one over the street….

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    biggles said:

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

    I would say old Rupert pulled a blinder flogging it for £30bn to Comcast.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    edited July 2022

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Totalitarian? To have a poster suggesting that men could do something about stopping sexist hate? It’s not exactly Kristallnacht.
    Do you think the sort of people who might do those things are going to take the slightest bit of notice of a poster like this? They couldn't care less about a poster. It's like putting a big banner outside every bank saying "If you rob this bank you will go to prison".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,613

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old classic "sticky" content e.g. Friends and the Office.

    There will be a couple of winners of the streaming wars, but Netflix now has a serious problem to be one of them.
    Everyone else involved has deeper pockets I think? Apple's are so deep you need the Webb telescope to see the bottom. But are they in for the long haul? Might e-car be more interesting?
  • Disney+ has an insane amount of content now they own 20th Century as well. Netflix is an absolute nothing.

    Amazon Prime is also good - but they've just bought MGM.
  • Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old classic "sticky" content e.g. Friends and the Office.

    There will be a couple of winners of the streaming wars, but Netflix now has a serious problem to be one of them.
    Everyone else involved has deeper pockets I think? Apple's are so deep you need the Webb telescope to see the bottom. But are they in for the long haul? Might e-car be more interesting?
    Apple is doing it slightly differently to say Amazon, they are only getting stuff they commission.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Steve Baker on Peston was still flying the flag for Suella Braverman. Seems optimistic given her 32 votes.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    biggles said:

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

    Could they do it without clubbing together?
    My problem with sky sports is that 80% of the cost is for football, and I don't get value from that. But I'd probably pay for cricket and rugby. If I could pay 20% of the costs and get an everything-but-football package it would suit me very well. Or even buy a separate package for each sport.
  • Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

    Could they do it without clubbing together?
    My problem with sky sports is that 80% of the cost is for football, and I don't get value from that. But I'd probably pay for cricket and rugby. If I could pay 20% of the costs and get an everything-but-football package it would suit me very well. Or even buy a separate package for each sport.
    County games just seem to be streamed free on YouTube now which is an interesting way of doing it.

    IMHO I think Amazon will buy up a lot of sport over time. Sky is in trouble.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    Woke isn't a thing. It's all made up. Massively exaggerated etc.

    Tonight's hectoring at Waterloo station - taken on my phone.


    It is strangely totalitarian.

    You find yourself starting to criticise it (ie: is 'sexist hate' really only a male phenomenon?), but then you realise that the act of criticism is defined as an act of denial or oppression, so whatever you try and do, you can't win.

    The only viable solution is actually just to shrug your shoulders and ignore it.
    Totalitarian? To have a poster suggesting that men could do something about stopping sexist hate? It’s not exactly Kristallnacht.
    Do you think that the sort of people who might do those things are going to take the slightest bit of notice of a poster like this? They couldn't care less about a poster. It's like putting a bit banner outside every bank saying "If you rob this bank you will go to prison".
    Everybody thinks advertising doesn't work, apart from the hard-nosed business people who pay lots of money for it.
    They know, you don't.
    'Working' in this case though isn't stopping hate but selling more EE products.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old classic "sticky" content e.g. Friends and the Office.

    There will be a couple of winners of the streaming wars, but Netflix now has a serious problem to be one of them.
    Everyone else involved has deeper pockets I think? Apple's are so deep you need the Webb telescope to see the bottom. But are they in for the long haul? Might e-car be more interesting?
    It hard to see how the big bad mouse isn't the major winner. They have all the massive historic catalogue plus modern rights and sports, plus the best tech and revenue streams from every which way to fund their operation if cash is every required.

    No idea how seriously Apple / Amazon really care about streaming or if it is just a way of selling you into their eco-system. They both made some good shows recently, but the catalogues of content are pretty limited.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

    Could they do it without clubbing together?
    My problem with sky sports is that 80% of the cost is for football, and I don't get value from that. But I'd probably pay for cricket and rugby. If I could pay 20% of the costs and get an everything-but-football package it would suit me very well. Or even buy a separate package for each sport.
    You’d have to guess that if the ECB, Aussies and other smaller boards buddied up with the Indians it would be very doable for cricket.

  • Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old classic "sticky" content e.g. Friends and the Office.

    There will be a couple of winners of the streaming wars, but Netflix now has a serious problem to be one of them.
    Everyone else involved has deeper pockets I think? Apple's are so deep you need the Webb telescope to see the bottom. But are they in for the long haul? Might e-car be more interesting?
    It hard to see how the big bad mouse isn't the major winner. They have all the massive historic catalogue plus modern rights and sports, plus the best tech and revenue streams from every which way to fund their operation if cash is every required.

    No idea how seriously Apple / Amazon really care about streaming or if it is just a way of selling you into their eco-system.
    And they own 20th Century so have over half of the content. They're a massive winner.

    I'm surprised they aren't buying sports to be honest.
  • Remember those halcyon days when BigG could barely contain himself at the launch of a new TV station despite warnings that it would turn out to be an alt-right disinformation engine, fully subsidised by shadowy multi-millionaires?
    Is it just me or is Big G wrong, like a lot
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022

    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

    Could they do it without clubbing together?
    My problem with sky sports is that 80% of the cost is for football, and I don't get value from that. But I'd probably pay for cricket and rugby. If I could pay 20% of the costs and get an everything-but-football package it would suit me very well. Or even buy a separate package for each sport.
    County games just seem to be streamed free on YouTube now which is an interesting way of doing it.

    IMHO I think Amazon will buy up a lot of sport over time. Sky is in trouble.
    The cricket on YouTube has been a revelation. More people watch a lot of those matches than ever go to the games and some of the T20 ones have got some really got viewership e.g. I think Yorkshire vs Lancashire had 20-30k viewers on top of a full ground.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734

    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Another massive hole in Nadine Dorries argument that BBC could be a subscription service like Netflix.

    a) Netflix basic subs model under assault post-pandemic

    b) Ads on BBC. Really? Pretty sure the Antiques roadshow loving tory members of Home Counties don't want any interruptions to sell them Equity Release.
    Netflix problem is that the big bad mouse has appeared on the scene to eat their lunch (along with Amazon, Apple, Discovery and Paramount), while also spaffing too much money up the walls on very poor programmes, but the biggest problem is most crucially lost the old sticky
    content e.g. Friends and the Office
    Content producers realising they can have they own streaming service is a game changer isn’t it? Now the film studios and networks are creating their own distribution, the value proposition of someone like Sky drops. If the FA, the ECB, the RFU and F1 clubbed together on a sports steaming platform, Sky would presumably die.

    That being said it could go the other way, and there will need to be consolidation of streaming services and we go back to production departing from dissemination.

    Could they do it without clubbing together?
    My problem with sky sports is that 80% of the cost is for football, and I don't get value from that. But I'd probably pay for cricket and rugby. If I could pay 20% of the costs and get an everything-but-football package it would suit me very well. Or even buy a separate package for each sport.
    County games just seem to be streamed free on YouTube now which is an interesting way of doing it.

    IMHO I think Amazon will buy up a lot of sport over time. Sky is in trouble.
    Are they? That's exciting news. I can get YouTube on my telly. I've always thought how lovely it would be to have cricket on the telly by default.
    This may be the last you see of me until Autumn...
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,702
    edited July 2022
    What time is today's vote and the result?

    No sign of any info anywhere.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651

    Netflix has secured a deal with Microsoft to introduce advertising breaks for its streaming service as it scrambles to offset a fall in subscribers by offering a cheaper service for customers.

    The streaming giant has chosen Microsoft to be its global technology and sales partner and will provide ads through its platform, its chief operating officer Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

    Ugh, ads on Netflix. Glad I never threw out my blu rays.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022

    Disney+ has an insane amount of content now they own 20th Century as well. Netflix is an absolute nothing.

    Amazon Prime is also good - but they've just bought MGM.

    Which means James Bond.....

    I watched Reacher the other week on Amazon Prime, thought it was pretty good.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    GB News positioning on COVID is just weird, anti-lockdown, often anti-vax. Their demographic is oldies, right leaning, Brexit types.....oldies couldn't wait to get their jabs fast enough because quite rightly they were scared shitless of COVID.

    Its not like the US where substantial right wing people were anti-vax / anti-lockdown / anti-mask etc....here, yes there is a fringe on both left and right, but it just isn't the same.
    In that clip the guy seemed to blame the Queen.

    Good fecking luck with that one GMB.

    Closed by end of year.

    I have never understood the economic case for GB News....I haven't really watched it, but it seems a proper weird channel in so many respects.
    There isn’t one.
    There’s not supposed to be.

    It’a designed to pump alt-right disinformation to the old and gullible and to create meme-able clips to do the same online.

    The money behind it knows exactly what it’s doing.
This discussion has been closed.