None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?
That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester
* Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?
The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.
And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.
And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
The Palace of Westminster will need to be repaired whether or not it remains the home of Parliament.
A permanent move to another city doesn't take away the need to repair the existing buildings
Why would it need to be repaired if it's no longer home of Parliament.
But the cost of repairing an empty building is X or Y times cheaper than doing repairs when the building is being used.
Isn't it a listed building? Could be turned into a super hotel. Get 10 minutes at the dispatch box to spout whatever bollocks you like. Nowhere else could offer that opportunity.
I can see Malmaison making a bid for it like Oxford Prison.
My parents stayed in Oxford Prison once, said it was quite the surreal experience.
Shortly afterwards, it was converted into a hotel.
First all MP Tory leadership hustings is **tonight**.
Any candidate with over 20 MPs support will be grilled on their approach to the culture wars including controversial statues and British history by the Common Sense Group of Tory MPs. 1/2
I agree with those who argue that having a black British MP would be quite something, though personally I wouldn't favour Kemi given her political views.
I don't, however, subscribe to the view that this puts the Labour Party to shame. Back in 1987, Bernie Grant, Paul Boateng and Diane Abbott were first elected to parliament for Labour - that was seen as a huge breakthrough in minority ethnic, particularly black, representation. (At that time, Abbott was regarded as rather impressive, though I accept that her reputation has diminished in recent years.) The Tory Party took quite a long time to catch up, though it's good news that its benches are now more diverse (albeit with a much higher % of male MPs than Labour).
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
He’s an effective communicator with good “emotional intelligence” - unfortunately knowledge of his wealth appears to be outweighing that in the Red Wall.
I used to think him an effective communicator, until borrowing someone car for photo op and then not knowing how to pay for petrol with his card.
She has more ministerial experience than either Cameron or Blair had when they became PM. She is slightly younger than Cameron was and a bit younger than Blair.
Is it because she’s a woman she’s “inexperienced”, or because she isn’t Public School / Oxford educated?
That's extremely misleading. Cameron didn't have ministerial experience, of course, but he had (with Osborne) oodles of experience at the centre of events as a SPAD, and he had five years of LOTO experience before becoming PM. He'd also surrounded himself with an excellent team which spent a lot of effort learning about how to do government. He was extremely well prepared for office, as was Blair, who also spent his time as a shadow minister and then LOTO very wisely.
That's completely different from being catapulted into the PM position from a minor role whilst the party is in government.
A lot would depend on her team and her attitude to it. A return to cabinet government is long overdue in my opinion. Decline then almost dead by end of New Labour. The a few slight resuscitations and relapses with no vital signs at a all under Johnson.
Very hard to build up an effective team when three quarters of those in it think they should be leader instead of you, and the other quarter think someone else should be.
True bit isn't that true of all governments at all times?
Yes, but it is much reduced if the leader has a serious track record, rather than being a Kemi-come-lately.
So you want a leader with the experience of managing a major department in the stellar Johnson administration. “Time for a change” is out then, more “Steady as she goes” and “Building on Success” (sic)?
Yeah, well, if the party had listened to me they wouldn't be starting from here. There are no good options.
So which are the least worst ones?
I see Truss as continuity Johnson and because of her Remain apostasy now even more Brexiteer in penance - a disaster in pursuit of headlines
Sunak is a smooth operator but I’m yet to be convinced there’s much of substance there - we need ideas, not slogans. He’s also going to spend time rubbishing the record of the last Chancellor but one, which could be awkward.
I don’t know much about either Mordaunt or Badenoch - but Mordaunt appears to have been imbibing the Stonewall kool-aid, however much she tries to row back from it now. The issue is not the policy per-se - which reasonable people can disagree over, but the apparently unthinking adoption if it and mindless repetition of meaningless slogans.
I thought Badenoch’s speech impressive and if followed through both a break from the past and a good start. She appears to have more substance than most of them.
It's an abysmal field, but I would put the order from least bad (I hate the expression 'least worst'!) to worst as:
The SNP have put a lot of effort into rewriting history to suggest Brexit is the only reason they're agitating for another referendum, but they were always intent on finding an excuse to have another go. E.g, this 👇 is from a Nov 2014 FT article: https://ft.com/content/45fab178-78a5-11e4-b518-00144feabdc0
Question: How many eligible Tory MPs are there for Leadership Top Two "primary"?
Guido currently says 181 declared MPs = 51% but does NOT give actual # of eligibles. And IF the number is somewhere on the wiki blurb they've done damn good job hiding it.
My own thought is, a kindergarten class would have a bette/smarter/certainly clearer setup for electing Rug Rat of the Month, that this crowd has for selecting the Queen's next First Lord of the Treasury.
Or rather, the Top Two for CUP members to ponder.
BTW, just how many signed-up, paid-up (and possibly fucked-up) members ARE there out there? Does anyone actually know. Not just on PB, but in Tory HQ?
If anyone is watching this space telescope broadcast, I’m amazed at the technology we possess to look so far into our universe and equally amazed that given the technology we possess NASA don’t seem to be able to successfully co-ordinate a live television broadcast…
It’s remarkable how many “racist, classist, sexist” PB right wingers are eager to see a white working class woman, or a young black women, take the Tory leadership and become Prime Minister
It’s almost as if the caricatures are BOLLOCKS
I have kept saying to you that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, Leon.
No True Minority would be a Tory, therefore all the candidates are white men.
Sad to say - I won't be able to watch C4's debate because I will be watching Abba.
The Winner Takes it All in both cases.
But eek will miss the Arrival of an As Good as New leader for this part of the Crazy World, overcoming Con voter Disillusion and selling a Dream World, claiming I Have a Dream, while the selectorate drools I Still Have Faith in You and I've Been Waiting for You and waits for the Merry Go Round to stop, No Doubt About It. One Man, One Woman in the final ballot? The process will seem So Long now The King Has Lost His Crown and at the next election the new leader will likely say Why Did It Have to Be Me? And yet, eek will be in Another Town, Another Train.
TBF, as we discussed the other day almost any of the chimps at Corstorphine Zoo would do better in Scotland than the PM. So merely improving things isn't much of an aim.
Have the ScoTories come to any sort of collective viewpoint?
Edit: missed a bit; "Borders MP John Lamont said he would vote for International Trade Minister Penny Mordaunt while West Aberdeenshire MP Andrew Bowie confirmed he would support former Chancellor Rishi Sunak.
The remaining four, including Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross, have yet to endorse any of the candidates."
Has Ruth Davidson come out for any of the candidates? She might have some sway
Not that I am aware of, even after a rummage to check.
Too centrist, and too critical of Mr J and of the Cabinet for not sorting out the chaos, I think.
She has more ministerial experience than either Cameron or Blair had when they became PM. She is slightly younger than Cameron was and a bit younger than Blair.
Is it because she’s a woman she’s “inexperienced”, or because she isn’t Public School / Oxford educated?
That's extremely misleading. Cameron didn't have ministerial experience, of course, but he had (with Osborne) oodles of experience at the centre of events as a SPAD, and he had five years of LOTO experience before becoming PM. He'd also surrounded himself with an excellent team which spent a lot of effort learning about how to do government. He was extremely well prepared for office, as was Blair, who also spent his time as a shadow minister and then LOTO very wisely.
That's completely different from being catapulted into the PM position from a minor role whilst the party is in government.
A lot would depend on her team and her attitude to it. A return to cabinet government is long overdue in my opinion. Decline then almost dead by end of New Labour. The a few slight resuscitations and relapses with no vital signs at a all under Johnson.
Very hard to build up an effective team when three quarters of those in it think they should be leader instead of you, and the other quarter think someone else should be.
True bit isn't that true of all governments at all times?
Yes, but it is much reduced if the leader has a serious track record, rather than being a Kemi-come-lately.
So you want a leader with the experience of managing a major department in the stellar Johnson administration. “Time for a change” is out then, more “Steady as she goes” and “Building on Success” (sic)?
Yeah, well, if the party had listened to me they wouldn't be starting from here. There are no good options.
So which are the least worst ones?
I see Truss as continuity Johnson and because of her Remain apostasy now even more Brexiteer in penance - a disaster in pursuit of headlines
Sunak is a smooth operator but I’m yet to be convinced there’s much of substance there - we need ideas, not slogans. He’s also going to spend time rubbishing the record of the last Chancellor but one, which could be awkward.
I don’t know much about either Mordaunt or Badenoch - but Mordaunt appears to have been imbibing the Stonewall kool-aid, however much she tries to row back from it now. The issue is not the policy per-se - which reasonable people can disagree over, but the apparently unthinking adoption if it and mindless repetition of meaningless slogans.
I thought Badenoch’s speech impressive and if followed through both a break from the past and a good start. She appears to have more substance than most of them.
It's an abysmal field, but I would put the order from least bad (I hate the expression 'least worst'!) to worst as:
Labour 46% (–) Conservative 32% (-3) Reform UK 7% (+4) Liberal Democrat 10% (+2) Green 4% (–) Plaid Cymru 0% (-1) Other 1% (-1)
Changes +/- 26-27 June
The culture wars will surely win these back
Tory to Reform. Reform won't sit in all seats in an election as well.
Its a further indication that about 3 to 4% is the immediate resigbation/chaos 'hit' that a new leader needs to reverse and go past. There is not (yet) evidence of further slippage
It’s remarkable how many “racist, classist, sexist” PB right wingers are eager to see a white working class woman, or a young black women, take the Tory leadership and become Prime Minister
It’s almost as if the caricatures are BOLLOCKS
I have kept saying to you that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, Leon.
No True Minority would be a Tory, therefore all the candidates are white men.
On the contrary, I think Tories will increasingly be in a minority.
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
The prospect of a PM setting out on a promise to slash the State would be a Labour dream right now.
It’s not like anyone on public sector payroll can’t hear these threats to their job, and voters these threats to their services - yet so many posters on PB convinced Tories to get a poll bounce from this extensive media coverage.
Even cuts to fuel duty benefits richer than poorer people, let alone Javid’s promise to cut NHS expenditure to pay for income tax cuts.
I think you've got this right. They're making themselves look extremely unattractive to everyone except themselves
The formerly normal aspiration to settle and start a family is out of reach for swathes of young people. A fundamental compact between conservative principles, and the party that is supposed to represent them, has been broken.
Britain tends to think of itself as an equal partner to countries such as France, the Netherlands and Germany in terms of incomes and living standards. This is a collective fantasy, which hasn’t been true for well over a decade. The reality shouldn’t be shocking, yet it remains so: Britain’s incomes and living standards have fallen far behind what were its peer nations only 15 years ago. “Across European countries, only households in Greece and Cyprus saw a worse performance between 2007 and 2018 than the UK,” found the Resolution Foundation.
Because the reality is that Britain’s national religion is no longer Anglican Christianity. It isn’t even the NHS. It is Pensionerism. Britain is a care home with a navy.
Yet all attempts to reform this growth-killing inequity end in failure, such is the strength of the homeowner-pensioner lobby.
Without Brexit to focus on, the Government has lost its sense of purpose. The next leader must be a strategist, cerebral, and yet still a salesman. Someone who recognises that there’s more to winning than winning itself, and declinist managerialism — that a far greater prize is changing peoples’ lives and your country, for the better.
There’s a similar article in the FT: the new decline of Britain
The graphs are quite shocking in how UK median income is falling behind, even as we do OK-ish on GDP per capita (suggesting rising inequality)
Moreover, the turning point in all the graphs is the Great Financial Crisis, not Brexit. Up to 2008 the UK was steaming ahead and even overtaking all west European peers, in 2008 we stumbled and fell, and have never recovered
Something happened in 2008. The easy answer is we borrowed too much and when credit was squeezed, ouch. But that is true of many countries. What was particular to Britain that changed in 2008?
We didn't have a proper crash in house prices but instead Brown/Darling and then Cameron/Osborne propped up the market with ever more schemes to increase lending.
It's more that our financial services industry was proportionately far bigger than anyone else's and produced a much greater proportion of government funds by way of tax. We lost huge numbers of really well paid jobs and we have not replaced them which has driven median income down in a somewhat exaggerated fashion. Those who have remained in work have done ok but the loss of the cream at the top has driven down the averages.
It is also, possibly, a wider secular trend in the West that is slowly spreading
The rot started in the USA where median incomes have been treading water for ages - hence Trump. Then Britain fell into the trap. Hence Brexit. France looks like it is following, as income stagnates…
And so on
It’s the middle classes being hollowed out across the West, as large industry and manufacturing industries have largely moved to Asia, replaced by low-income warehouse and driving work.
What I find fascinating is the reaction of a range of people to the idea of having industries based in the UK.
A considerable chunk of the progressive types have absorbed the idea that you can't compete on price with "PhDs for $1 a week in China". Despite the fact that there is a small thing called productivity to consider. And you can get someone with a PhD to work for you in China for a dollar a week, either.
It was globalised capitalism and free trade aka Thatcherism that did this, not "progressive types".
But it's the absorption of the idea - to a ludicrous excess - by the progressive end of the spectrum that is fascinating.
The productivity numbers make it quite clear. There isn't much of a gap.
Further the productivity levels of a country are very closely related to the infrastructure - physical, social and legal - of that country. Healthcare, roads and sewers increase national productivity.
From that you can actually build a business case that closes for a level of state spending on the above.
Rather than "All the jobs will go to China, must crucify some billionaire to get enough money to kind of run the NHS".
AKA Affordable Social Democracy.
The need for better infrastructure is why many of us want HS2E and NPR built because they are essential infrastructure projects for future growth.
But because the Treasury's investment models are broken the work can't be justified....
It’s remarkable how many “racist, classist, sexist” PB right wingers are eager to see a white working class woman, or a young black women, take the Tory leadership and become Prime Minister
It’s almost as if the caricatures are BOLLOCKS
I had this at the weekend from a labour supporter who seemed disgusted that the Tories might have as many a seven minority ethnic people as potential leader. They really do think they have a right to all minority votes.
There have already been a lot of people flummoxed by Kemi in her Equalities Minister role. Seeing an intelligent and articulate black woman as PM, will turn the world view of a lot of people upside-down.
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
It’s remarkable how many “racist, classist, sexist” PB right wingers are eager to see a white working class woman, or a young black women, take the Tory leadership and become Prime Minister
It’s almost as if the caricatures are BOLLOCKS
Many a bigot is quite willing to vote for candidate of race, creed, ethnicity, etc. that they are bigoted toward/about/against.
SO willingness to vote for particular candidate is NOT proof positive that the are NOT a bigot. Instead proof that - from their perspective - they are prepared to cast an intelligent as opposed to knee-jerk vote.
There was a clip of Badenoch's launch at lunchtime on WATO; at the beginning when she appeared there was screaming, Bay City Rollers, wet panties type of screaming. Strikes me something similar is going on on PB.
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
He’s an effective communicator with good “emotional intelligence” - unfortunately knowledge of his wealth appears to be outweighing that in the Red Wall.
I used to think him an effective communicator, until borrowing someone car for photo op and then not knowing how to pay for petrol with his card.
He’s clearly not put petrol in a car for decades. His family will have a driver for that.
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
4. Thanks to No.10 his negatives are out there. 5. Has had a serious job at the top of government for a long time. 6. And related. Your average punter knows who he is. (Although that may not be in his favour).
7. A lot of people will fondly remember him for paying them to do nothing at home for a few months back in 2020.
Gosh that was generous. I hadn't realised he did it out of his own generosity. Here was me thinking it was taxpayers cash, and all along it was Sunak's. What a guy!
The prospect of a PM setting out on a promise to slash the State would be a Labour dream right now.
It’s not like anyone on public sector payroll can’t hear these threats to their job, and voters these threats to their services - yet so many posters on PB convinced Tories to get a poll bounce from this extensive media coverage.
Even cuts to fuel duty benefits richer than poorer people, let alone Javid’s promise to cut NHS expenditure to pay for income tax cuts.
I think you've got this right. They're making themselves look extremely unattractive to everyone except themselves
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
He’s an effective communicator with good “emotional intelligence” - unfortunately knowledge of his wealth appears to be outweighing that in the Red Wall.
I used to think him an effective communicator, until borrowing someone car for photo op and then not knowing how to pay for petrol with his card.
He’s clearly not put petrol in a car for decades. His family will have a driver for that.
Yes. It is an issue. I really do not want a PM who has never put petrol in his own car, because he is so insanely rich
For all his faults, Boris at least understood these things
She has more ministerial experience than either Cameron or Blair had when they became PM. She is slightly younger than Cameron was and a bit younger than Blair.
Is it because she’s a woman she’s “inexperienced”, or because she isn’t Public School / Oxford educated?
That's extremely misleading. Cameron didn't have ministerial experience, of course, but he had (with Osborne) oodles of experience at the centre of events as a SPAD, and he had five years of LOTO experience before becoming PM. He'd also surrounded himself with an excellent team which spent a lot of effort learning about how to do government. He was extremely well prepared for office, as was Blair, who also spent his time as a shadow minister and then LOTO very wisely.
That's completely different from being catapulted into the PM position from a minor role whilst the party is in government.
A lot would depend on her team and her attitude to it. A return to cabinet government is long overdue in my opinion. Decline then almost dead by end of New Labour. The a few slight resuscitations and relapses with no vital signs at a all under Johnson.
Very hard to build up an effective team when three quarters of those in it think they should be leader instead of you, and the other quarter think someone else should be.
True bit isn't that true of all governments at all times?
Yes, but it is much reduced if the leader has a serious track record, rather than being a Kemi-come-lately.
So you want a leader with the experience of managing a major department in the stellar Johnson administration. “Time for a change” is out then, more “Steady as she goes” and “Building on Success” (sic)?
Yeah, well, if the party had listened to me they wouldn't be starting from here. There are no good options.
So which are the least worst ones?
I see Truss as continuity Johnson and because of her Remain apostasy now even more Brexiteer in penance - a disaster in pursuit of headlines
Sunak is a smooth operator but I’m yet to be convinced there’s much of substance there - we need ideas, not slogans. He’s also going to spend time rubbishing the record of the last Chancellor but one, which could be awkward.
I don’t know much about either Mordaunt or Badenoch - but Mordaunt appears to have been imbibing the Stonewall kool-aid, however much she tries to row back from it now. The issue is not the policy per-se - which reasonable people can disagree over, but the apparently unthinking adoption if it and mindless repetition of meaningless slogans.
I thought Badenoch’s speech impressive and if followed through both a break from the past and a good start. She appears to have more substance than most of them.
It's an abysmal field, but I would put the order from least bad (I hate the expression 'least worst'!) to worst as:
Respectable list, although Hunt’s fox hunting and McVeigh comments have given me pause for thought and Javid’s financial history will provide Labour an arsenal of ammunition. And, the first two may not even make it on to the ballot,
The third - unless he has hidden depths not yet revealed will probably lose to Labour (see red wall polling)
Which means four and five will be closing on their sixties after a two term Labour government….
But by then Badenoch will be in her fifties, so presumably experienced enough….
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
Plus the media will focus on the result of the first leadership ballot and won't pay much attention to anti Boris ranting in Westminster.
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
Source?
I don't have a source for that claim, but it makes sense: Webb is a multinational collaboration (albeit mostly US), and Biden's release of an image early last night seems a very last-minute decision. The other partners may not have been pleased at the politicking if they were not part of the decision to release early.
That lest picture of the five galaxies is stunning.
Very true. Could you also please tell the lefties that are obsessed with them too.
Which lefties? Not heard this ever come up in the Labour Party I know
Last time I heard about it, it was generally left leaning (mainly middle class white people) demanding Cecil Rhodes statue be removed. They seemed quite interested in statues. Then there was that one in Bristol. I guess those were Tories that threw that one (of some slave trader everyone had forgotten about) in the harbour?
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
He’s an effective communicator with good “emotional intelligence” - unfortunately knowledge of his wealth appears to be outweighing that in the Red Wall.
I used to think him an effective communicator, until borrowing someone car for photo op and then not knowing how to pay for petrol with his card.
He’s clearly not put petrol in a car for decades. His family will have a driver for that.
Yes. It is an issue. I really do not want a PM who has never put petrol in his own car, because he is so insanely rich
For all his faults, Boris at least understood these things
Penny just got Bob Stewart. Penny still 5 ahead of Truss.
It does look as if Truss will get the right wing but Penny is holding firm in the betting. Feels like she needs some high profile endorsements - maybe she can get Javid as he seems to have fallen out with Sunak.
She is going to need the vast majority of Tugendhat, Hunt and Javid supporters.
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
Source?
I know a couple of people at ESA. The Biden thing jumped the gun on planned presentation that was going to be NASA lead, with acknowledgement of contributions. It's happened before - US politicians assume that everything NASA is involved with is 100% NASA - but it still grates on some people.
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
The message is they had no ideas of their own and had to turn to a style from several hundred years earlier.
If you are going to compare median family incomes in the US over time, you should recognize that family structures have changed in the US. Bluntly, there are far more families that are headed by a single parent, usually a woman, that there were decades ago.
Here are some numbers: "Compared to several decades ago, children under 18 are more than twice as likely to live with a single parent (either mother or father). In 1968, only 12% of children lived with a single parent, most often their mother. Single-father households were extremely uncommon, with just 1% of kids living with a single father in 1968. By 2020, 25% of kids lived in single-parent households, and the share of kids who lived with a single father quadrupled to more than 4%. Additionally, the proportion of children under 18 who live with other adults (relatives or non-relatives) has become more common.
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
He would almost certainly lose to Labour. I think even Truss (whom I don't like) would have more electoral appeal. Mordaunt is the best hope for Conservative leaning voters. It is a risk because she is unknown, but that is a known unknown.
I believe Mordaunt would be an asset for the Conservatives, but then I don't vote Conservative so I am clueless when it comes to reading Conservative voter tea leaves. To me Truss would be electoral poison, but then she might be catnip to those special people in the Shires and the Red Wall who elect Prime Ministers and Governments.
Sad to say - I won't be able to watch C4's debate because I will be watching Abba.
The Winner Takes it All in both cases.
But eek will miss the Arrival of an As Good as New leader for this part of the Crazy World, overcoming Con voter Disillusion and selling a Dream World, claiming I Have a Dream, while the selectorate drools I Still Have Faith in You and I've Been Waiting for You and waits for the Merry Go Round to stop, No Doubt About It. One Man, One Woman in the final ballot? The process will seem So Long now The King Has Lost His Crown and at the next election the new leader will likely say Why Did It Have to Be Me? And yet, eek will be in Another Town, Another Train.
My main thinking was that I'm getting to see it before TSE does....
Just brilliant - and these are really just the test images, to make sure everything is calibrated correctly. There will be an awful lot more to come from Webb in the future.
Well done to the huge team who spent over a decade designing and building the thing.
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
Plus the media will focus on the result of the first leadership ballot and won't pay much attention to anti Boris ranting in Westminster.
The world has moved on from Boris.
Yep, that is how shit he was. He is now Mrs Rochester. They will probably leave him in the attic at No10 to remind all future occupants what goes wrong when you have a leader with no morality.
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
Plus hardly anybody will listen to the body of the debate. Its just 'labour trying to be relevant in the face of 24/7 tory press coverage'. To the average Joe they are trying to make a man who resigned, resign. Its infantile.
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
Source?
I don't have a source for that claim, but it makes sense: Webb is a multinational collaboration (albeit mostly US), and Biden's release of an image early last night seems a very last-minute decision. The other partners may not have been pleased at the politicking if they were not part of the decision to release early.
That lest picture of the five galaxies is stunning.
It was a political thing - politician sees an opportunity - which was why the Biden presentation was all over the place. NASA themselves were barely in the loop.
NASA, themselves, are generally very good at making the partners feel valued, even for small contributions.
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
Plus hardly anybody will listen to the body of the debate. Its just 'labour trying to be relevant in the face of 24/7 tory press coverage'. To the average Joe they are trying to make a man who resigned, resign. Its infantile.
The average Joe won't even notice there has been a VONC.
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
4. Thanks to No.10 his negatives are out there. 5. Has had a serious job at the top of government for a long time. 6. And related. Your average punter knows who he is. (Although that may not be in his favour).
5. I know a week is a long time in politics, but he only became CotE in 2020
If you are going to compare median family incomes in the US over time, you should recognize that family structures have changed in the US. Bluntly, there are far more families that are headed by a single parent, usually a woman, that there were decades ago.
Here are some numbers: "Compared to several decades ago, children under 18 are more than twice as likely to live with a single parent (either mother or father). In 1968, only 12% of children lived with a single parent, most often their mother. Single-father households were extremely uncommon, with just 1% of kids living with a single father in 1968. By 2020, 25% of kids lived in single-parent households, and the share of kids who lived with a single father quadrupled to more than 4%. Additionally, the proportion of children under 18 who live with other adults (relatives or non-relatives) has become more common.
This is a very good point. The flipside of it is that there are now two earners in many households, so it's not surprising that those households are a lot better off financially than their counterparts of the early 1960s.
Somewhat similar in the UK, of course. That's one reason why you need to be very careful in comparisons across generations.
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
The message is they had no ideas of their own and had to turn to a style from several hundred years earlier.
👀"Defence Secretary Ben Wallace...is believed to possess sufficient material to blow Sunak up over his attitude towards funding essential assistance to Ukraine."
I guess this is one answer to @philipjcowley ‘s question on why Labour would bother tabling a confidence motion - betting (successfully) that the government would do something stupid and hand them an easy (throughly likely soon forgotten) win https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1546876230875611139
👀"Defence Secretary Ben Wallace...is believed to possess sufficient material to blow Sunak up over his attitude towards funding essential assistance to Ukraine."
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
The message is they had no ideas of their own and had to turn to a style from several hundred years earlier.
“By established convention, the government always accedes to the demand from the leader of the opposition to allot a day for the discussion of a motion tabled by the official opposition...."
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
Plus hardly anybody will listen to the body of the debate. Its just 'labour trying to be relevant in the face of 24/7 tory press coverage'. To the average Joe they are trying to make a man who resigned, resign. Its infantile.
Not necessarily. It could play as Jesus Christ he has been told to go yet again and he STILL WON'T GO. Knowing the effect of a HoC VONC, before during and after the ftpa, is postdoc in UK politics stuff and if Labour can persuade people to get the wrong idea, they won't be fobbed off with yet yebbut Callaghan 1979 bollocks.
“By established convention, the government always accedes to the demand from the leader of the opposition to allot a day for the discussion of a motion tabled by the official opposition...."
👀"Defence Secretary Ben Wallace...is believed to possess sufficient material to blow Sunak up over his attitude towards funding essential assistance to Ukraine."
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
The message is they had no ideas of their own and had to turn to a style from several hundred years earlier.
FFS get Badenoch on the ballot. She needs to be in the debates
To widen the debate?
She’s not there to make up the numbers. Yes, she’s not the most experienced candidate - but her first nomination was from Gove, who most definitely is experienced enough to know she’s up to it.
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
The message is they had no ideas of their own and had to turn to a style from several hundred years earlier.
It is ghastly.
Do point me to a "genuinely new style"
Art deco
Art Deco. The Chrysler Building. A decorative spire on a skyscraper
The Palace of Westminster is ugly as feck. Knock it down and build some trendy apartments by the river. With the proceeds we can build a new purpose-built facility up north.
Ugly? The Palace of Westminster is beautiful, like a homage to God. The most important building in the British isles.
Some of you clearly can’t handle this heat. 🫠
Neo-gothic monstrosity.
Give me the clean lines or art deco any day.
You are not playing serious in this discussion. Gothic is the epitome of style, think of the craftsmanship, think of the message it conveys.
The message is they had no ideas of their own and had to turn to a style from several hundred years earlier.
Anyone know what this VONC tomorrow is supposed to achieve?
Labour are looking pretty good at the moment looking on high at this Tory fiasco. Why would they want to become embroiled without any obvious end goal?
They seem to want to tie the Tories to Bozo. But hes going. The risk is how many will see them looking like student politicians and desperate attention seekers whilst the adults select a new PM. If they forced a GE, Bozo remains PM. So, essentially, they want a GE. A truism.
Nah, a GE isn't an option since the demise of FTPA. Even if the VONC passed, Boris would stay on as caretaker PM until the Tory leadership contest produces a result.
The VONC would have made sense before DACOP, but not now.
Labour are going to raise Boris meeting KGB in secret, Lebvedevs appointment, Boris use of chequers, and Libdems will probe the Tories on claims Boris is the British Harvey Weinstein. The point here is to smear all the Tories in a coating of smelly Boris and force Tory poll % as low as they can,
That is as far from student politics or pointless, as politics can be.
But Boris is going at the hands of his own party, and nothing that happens tomorrow would change that.
Plus hardly anybody will listen to the body of the debate. Its just 'labour trying to be relevant in the face of 24/7 tory press coverage'. To the average Joe they are trying to make a man who resigned, resign. Its infantile.
The average Joe won't even notice there has been a VONC.
Particularly as there won't be one. This is seriously constitutionally damaging. Sets a precedent for a government which loses its majority simply refusing to allow a vote. Still. Nothing to see. Playing politics.
TBF, as we discussed the other day almost any of the chimps at Corstorphine Zoo would do better in Scotland than the PM. So merely improving things isn't much of an aim.
Have the ScoTories come to any sort of collective viewpoint?
Edit: missed a bit; "Borders MP John Lamont said he would vote for International Trade Minister Penny Mordaunt while West Aberdeenshire MP Andrew Bowie confirmed he would support former Chancellor Rishi Sunak.
The remaining four, including Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross, have yet to endorse any of the candidates."
Has Ruth Davidson come out for any of the candidates? She might have some sway
“By established convention, the government always accedes to the demand from the leader of the opposition to allot a day for the discussion of a motion tabled by the official opposition...."
If Sunak does implode during the MPs' phase of the contest, which is not at all impossible, who benefits? Javid, I suppose, assuming he gets on to the ballot, otherwise Hunt, but it's not obvious.
If Sunak does implode during the MPs' phase of the contest, which is not at all impossible, who benefits? Javid, I suppose, assuming he gets on to the ballot, otherwise Hunt, but it's not obvious.
Labour 46% (–) Conservative 32% (-3) Reform UK 7% (+4) Liberal Democrat 10% (+2) Green 4% (–) Plaid Cymru 0% (-1) Other 1% (-1)
Changes +/- 26-27 June
The culture wars will surely win these back
Tory to Reform. Reform won't sit in all seats in an election as well.
Move half the Reform vote of 3.8% to Conservative and half the Green vote of 5% to Labour and this is what you get (with the new boundaries).
The 13 LDs on C&S would be handy.
Theyd have a couple SDLP who might take the whip too
I don't believe the LDs would go full frontal coalition again, but C&S might work, and yes the SDLP could take the whip.
I dont think the LDs would go into C and S, theyd say they will vote issue by issue. If Labs majority fell they would probably say theyd allow a QS to pass but retain the right to bring down the govt if they went astray. They wont get cabinet seats so why hitch yourself to a weak government?
Biden upset quite a few people yesterday, by ignoring the non-NASA contributions to Webb and jumping the gun on the release. Lots of apologising going on from NASA, I understand.
Source?
I know a couple of people at ESA. The Biden thing jumped the gun on planned presentation that was going to be NASA lead, with acknowledgement of contributions. It's happened before - US politicians assume that everything NASA is involved with is 100% NASA - but it still grates on some people.
Very true. Could you also please tell the lefties that are obsessed with them too.
Which lefties? Not heard this ever come up in the Labour Party I know
Last time I heard about it, it was generally left leaning (mainly middle class white people) demanding Cecil Rhodes statue be removed. They seemed quite interested in statues. Then there was that one in Bristol. I guess those were Tories that threw that one (of some slave trader everyone had forgotten about) in the harbour?
Right wing mayor Sadiq Khan created a panel to review statues (notice how the headline is "London's new diversity commission 'not about removing statues'", but the actual quote is "It’s not just about taking down statues"). But of course the trick is to set up all these commissions and reviews, wait for things to go quiet before having them report, and then implement their findings. That way, when your opponent points out you're now taking down statues, you can accuse them of being obsessed with the topic, and all that was settled a long time ago.
I feel a Rishi v Truss contest is looking depressingly more likely.
I tipped Mordaunt. She needs to pick up more of the ERG and perhaps continuity Boris vote.
Labour will want Truss, followed by Rishi, followed by Mordaunt. Badenoch impossible to judge; she could - like Boris - attract public support from unlikely places.
I think Mordaunt can overtake Truss and perhaps also Badenoch — (overtake Truss).
Me too, but I just fear it’s less likely than it was looking yesterday.
I genuinely think Mordaunt and perhaps even Badenoch would be better for the country than Rishi or Truss.
Agree. The other two (confess I like neither) will always to open to the question about why they continued to prop up the worst PM of all time.
There's a surprising amount of pb consensus over orders of preference from people who normally disagree.
Is there anyone here who actually supports Rishi, except as a means to avoid Truss?
The case for Rishi. As a serious answer.
1. Anyone but Truss if it’s those two in final two. 2. Won’t cut taxes until inflation under control (whatever under control means specifically, slashed to 4.4 but stuck like a bad record not under control imo) 3. No to more borrowing.
Anyone got anything else?
He’s an effective communicator with good “emotional intelligence” - unfortunately knowledge of his wealth appears to be outweighing that in the Red Wall.
I used to think him an effective communicator, until borrowing someone car for photo op and then not knowing how to pay for petrol with his card.
He’s clearly not put petrol in a car for decades. His family will have a driver for that.
Yes. It is an issue. I really do not want a PM who has never put petrol in his own car, because he is so insanely rich
For all his faults, Boris at least understood these things
Lol, still apologising for him. The man of the people that allowed his wife to spend absurd sums making No10 look like a tart's boudoir.
Comments
I don't, however, subscribe to the view that this puts the Labour Party to shame. Back in 1987, Bernie Grant, Paul Boateng and Diane Abbott were first elected to parliament for Labour - that was seen as a huge breakthrough in minority ethnic, particularly black, representation. (At that time, Abbott was regarded as rather impressive, though I accept that her reputation has diminished in recent years.) The Tory Party took quite a long time to catch up, though it's good news that its benches are now more diverse (albeit with a much higher % of male MPs than Labour).
Hunt
Javid
Sunak
Tugendhat
Mordaunt
Badenoch*
Zahawi
Truss
Braverman
* I think she has potential but it's too soon
https://twitter.com/JohnFerry18/status/1546617792258084869
Guido currently says 181 declared MPs = 51% but does NOT give actual # of eligibles. And IF the number is somewhere on the wiki blurb they've done damn good job hiding it.
My own thought is, a kindergarten class would have a bette/smarter/certainly clearer setup for electing Rug Rat of the Month, that this crowd has for selecting the Queen's next First Lord of the Treasury.
Or rather, the Top Two for CUP members to ponder.
BTW, just how many signed-up, paid-up (and possibly fucked-up) members ARE there out there? Does anyone actually know. Not just on PB, but in Tory HQ?
She will stand out
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-62137963
Too centrist, and too critical of Mr J and of the Cabinet for not sorting out the chaos, I think.
But because the Treasury's investment models are broken the work can't be justified....
SO willingness to vote for particular candidate is NOT proof positive that the are NOT a bigot. Instead proof that - from their perspective - they are prepared to cast an intelligent as opposed to knee-jerk vote.
Nobody. Cares.
Labour should steer well clear
For all his faults, Boris at least understood these things
The third - unless he has hidden depths not yet revealed will probably lose to Labour (see red wall polling)
Which means four and five will be closing on their sixties after a two term Labour government….
But by then Badenoch will be in her fifties, so presumably experienced enough….
Badenoch - 2
Zahawi - 6
Hunt - 6
Javid - 8
Braverman- 8
Chishti - 20
Reduce by 1 if they’re allowed to nominate themselves (not sure if that’s the case or not!)
The world has moved on from Boris.
That lest picture of the five galaxies is stunning.
It does look as if Truss will get the right wing but Penny is holding firm in the betting. Feels like she needs some high profile endorsements - maybe she can get Javid as he seems to have fallen out with Sunak.
She is going to need the vast majority of Tugendhat, Hunt and Javid supporters.
It is ghastly.
Here are some numbers: "Compared to several decades ago, children under 18 are more than twice as likely to live with a single parent (either mother or father). In 1968, only 12% of children lived with a single parent, most often their mother. Single-father households were extremely uncommon, with just 1% of kids living with a single father in 1968. By 2020, 25% of kids lived in single-parent households, and the share of kids who lived with a single father quadrupled to more than 4%. Additionally, the proportion of children under 18 who live with other adults (relatives or non-relatives) has become more common.
Despite the rise in popularity of non-traditional living arrangements, they tend to offer less financial stability than dual-parent family structures. The median income of single-parent households is less than half of dual-parent households — $36,000 compared to $99,000."
source: https://www.newspressnow.com/news/local_news/as-single-parent-homes-grow-income-disparity-continues-to-lag/article_9240c7a4-b29e-11eb-a29c-0b380d3e57ef.html
(Daniel Patrick Moynihan got in political trouble for pointing out the effects of single parent families in 1965, and few politicians have wanted to souch the subject, since: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action )
Well done to the huge team who spent over a decade designing and building the thing.
To the average Joe they are trying to make a man who resigned, resign. Its infantile.
NASA, themselves, are generally very good at making the partners feel valued, even for small contributions.
Somewhat similar in the UK, of course. That's one reason why you need to be very careful in comparisons across generations.
https://twitter.com/meadwaj/status/1546872340956545024?s=21&t=qwWvyu9Fr4TqhCY9XgKhKg
Told Jeremy Hunt has made it onto the ballot for the Tory leadership election
So looks like Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, Penny Mordaunt, Tom Tugendhat & Hunt have enough support
We're waiting to hear on Kemi Badenoch, Nadhim Zahawi, Suella Braverman and Sajid Javid
They don't think he would win it...
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234
“By established convention, the government always accedes to the demand from the leader of the opposition to allot a day for the discussion of a motion tabled by the official opposition...."
https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1546872147456495618
Art Deco. The Chrysler Building. A decorative spire on a skyscraper
Sounds bizarrely like... Gothic
This is seriously constitutionally damaging.
Sets a precedent for a government which loses its majority simply refusing to allow a vote.
Still. Nothing to see. Playing politics.
They wont get cabinet seats so why hitch yourself to a weak government?
Not a traditional confidence vote - doesn’t pass the test - and is also a conditional which further complicates it. Back to the drawing board Labour!
https://twitter.com/nmdacosta/status/1546879092238196736
Leon, he was shit. Get with the herd!