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Rishi is clear favourite after a morning of campaign launches – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,151
edited July 2022 in General
imageRishi is clear favourite after a morning of campaign launches – politicalbetting.com

It’s been an interesting morning watching one Tory hopeful after another launch their campaigns to succeed Mr. Johnson. Some are making a virtue of promising early tax cuts if they win while others are making a virtue of not rushing into such moves.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    First
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    When do nominations open and when do they close ?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
  • eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Or they hope to bring the Lib Dems on board for Coalition 2.0
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,726
    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    What's wrong with Brum? Or Blackpool? Plenty of pubs and beds there. And the buggers know how to get there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    I think the 22 have done quite well here. 20 is enough to winnow out most of the fantasists and fruit cakes before the hustings start which should make them less damaging to the party than they otherwise might have been.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    Still waiting for a better PM than Blair. He left office in 2007…

    We've had 2 better PM's than Blair already since then. Cameron and Boris.

    But if you're wanting a better Labour PM, you might need to wait until Labour are popular again. Perhaps Starmer's successor might do it?
    ROFL Cameron and Johnson don’t have a candle on Blair. He did actual levelling up and actual positive change.

    Johnson and Cameron divided the country and oversaw the largest stagnation in society in 100 years.
    This would be the stagnation that has led to record low unemployment?
    Record low but Kemi says more people are sitting around and doing nothing. Makes no sense.

    Full employment where 40% of people on benefits are IN WORK.
    As @BartholomewRoberts would point out if he was here - if you are on benefits there is absolutely zero point working beyond the point income is clawed back...

    Problem is there is no easy way to fix that without seriously increasing the cut off point at which people can no longer claim benefits (probably to something like £40-45,000 from £30,000).
    In idle moments, I try and think of ways of *temporarily increasing benefits* to those who earn money while on benefits.

    If insane marginal tax rates are just about dissuading people to work more, what would doubling the money they earn do?

    The problem is to prevent it being gamed.
    UBI with progressive taxation. Ensures nobody should be in poverty, can't be gamed and always an incentive to work.
    UBI would require the country to be wealthier than it is now - given the growth curves, within our lifetimes...

    The we can do this

    1) UBI replaces benefits, tax free allowance, state pension.
    2) All income above that taxed.
    3) Single income tax (NI abolished)

    The tax code can be written on a postcard.
    For all the positive theory of UBI, it is certainty that politicians will get hold of it and then we will get the Gordon Brown effect, oh I have found such and such group of people who I think would benefit from some extra funding, so I am going to have a special extra UBI payment for ....and in doing so a group of people who don't need it also get extra....5-10 years down the line and you back in their perverse situation where some people because of unique circumstances are getting extra + extra + extra on their UBI.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    The choice of re-location should be determined by number and standing of Premier league soccer clubs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,765
    Slight movement from Sunak to Mordaunt

    2.78 Rishi Sunak 35%
    3.4 Penny Mordaunt 29%
    4.9 Liz Truss 20%
    16.5 Kemi Badenoch 6%
    17 Tom Tugendhat 5%
    60 Jeremy Hunt
    110 Nadhim Zahawi
    120 Sajid Javid
    140 Priti Patel
    170 Suella Braverman
    200 Dominic Raab
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    It seems impossible that Sunak won't be in the final two, but nothing is certain in politics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,053

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    Still waiting for a better PM than Blair. He left office in 2007…

    We've had 2 better PM's than Blair already since then. Cameron and Boris.

    But if you're wanting a better Labour PM, you might need to wait until Labour are popular again. Perhaps Starmer's successor might do it?
    ROFL Cameron and Johnson don’t have a candle on Blair. He did actual levelling up and actual positive change.

    Johnson and Cameron divided the country and oversaw the largest stagnation in society in 100 years.
    This would be the stagnation that has led to record low unemployment?
    Record low but Kemi says more people are sitting around and doing nothing. Makes no sense.

    Full employment where 40% of people on benefits are IN WORK.
    As @BartholomewRoberts would point out if he was here - if you are on benefits there is absolutely zero point working beyond the point income is clawed back...

    Problem is there is no easy way to fix that without seriously increasing the cut off point at which people can no longer claim benefits (probably to something like £40-45,000 from £30,000).
    In idle moments, I try and think of ways of *temporarily increasing benefits* to those who earn money while on benefits.

    If insane marginal tax rates are just about dissuading people to work more, what would doubling the money they earn do?

    The problem is to prevent it being gamed.
    UBI with progressive taxation. Ensures nobody should be in poverty, can't be gamed and always an incentive to work.
    UBI would require the country to be wealthier than it is now - given the growth curves, within our lifetimes...

    The we can do this

    1) UBI replaces benefits, tax free allowance, state pension.
    2) All income above that taxed.
    3) Single income tax (NI abolished)

    The tax code can be written on a postcard.
    For all the positive theory of UBI, it is certainty that politicians will get hold of it and then we will get the Gordon Brown effect, oh I have found such and such group of people who I think would benefit from some extra funding, so I am going to have a special extra UBI payment for ....and in doing so a group of people who don't need it also get extra....5-10 years down the line and you back in their perverse situation where some people because of unique circumstances are getting extra + extra + extra on their UBI.
    Sigh. I know.

    It is a bit like when I was young and enthusiastic. And supported setting up a UK DARPA. The politicians I met were very keen, but wanted to fix what they saw a stupid things in the DARPA model - not supporting multiple projects, but pick a single big winner. Also long term projects rather than short term goals.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Pulpstar said:

    When do nominations open and when do they close ?

    I think they close 6pm tonight. First vote tomorrow
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,652
    edited July 2022

    Slight movement from Sunak to Mordaunt

    2.78 Rishi Sunak 35%
    3.4 Penny Mordaunt 29%
    4.9 Liz Truss 20%
    16.5 Kemi Badenoch 6%
    17 Tom Tugendhat 5%
    60 Jeremy Hunt
    110 Nadhim Zahawi
    120 Sajid Javid
    140 Priti Patel
    170 Suella Braverman
    200 Dominic Raab

    Is PP even a Candidate?

    DR has backed RS
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,053
    Pulpstar said:

    When do nominations open and when do they close ?

    "Is RON* standing?"

    *On one occasion, the people printing the ballots for a student election (at my Uni) screwed up and ReOpen Nominations was "Ron" on the ballot. The Union reps claimed that those companioning for Ron to win were trying to sabotage the election.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited July 2022
    Sunak probably in the final two but high chance he loses? This is Johnson vs Hunt all over again
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,053

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Glasgow. Belfast.
  • Could Rishi have had a few quid on himself to ensure he's favourite?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    The choice of re-location should be determined by number and standing of Premier league soccer clubs.
    Liverpool then, with the six European Cups.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    England: Jason Roy, Jonny Bairstow, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler, Liam Livingstone, Moeen Ali, Craig Overton, David Willey, Brydon Carse, Reece Topley.

    That England bowling attack is ripe for going for a load of runs.

    I really struggle to understand England's love of Craig Overton, he isn't even the best of the Overtons.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Well that’s confusing - the (Scottish) R4 political correspondent just called her Bay-den-och…..
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    If the plan is to refocus the economy then York is fine (being up North) but it's just too small....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    Not really. To win you have to be in the two. He's in the final, whilst the others are in the preliminary round.
    Plus. His negatives are known.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,765

    Slight movement from Sunak to Mordaunt

    2.78 Rishi Sunak 35%
    3.4 Penny Mordaunt 29%
    4.9 Liz Truss 20%
    16.5 Kemi Badenoch 6%
    17 Tom Tugendhat 5%
    60 Jeremy Hunt
    110 Nadhim Zahawi
    120 Sajid Javid
    140 Priti Patel
    170 Suella Braverman
    200 Dominic Raab

    Is PP even a Candidate?

    DR has backed RS
    Raab is quoted in case he is caretaker if Boris falls under a bus before the election is over. Patel has not yet ruled herself out but look at the prices!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    Still waiting for a better PM than Blair. He left office in 2007…

    We've had 2 better PM's than Blair already since then. Cameron and Boris.

    But if you're wanting a better Labour PM, you might need to wait until Labour are popular again. Perhaps Starmer's successor might do it?
    ROFL Cameron and Johnson don’t have a candle on Blair. He did actual levelling up and actual positive change.

    Johnson and Cameron divided the country and oversaw the largest stagnation in society in 100 years.
    This would be the stagnation that has led to record low unemployment?
    Record low but Kemi says more people are sitting around and doing nothing. Makes no sense.

    Full employment where 40% of people on benefits are IN WORK.
    As @BartholomewRoberts would point out if he was here - if you are on benefits there is absolutely zero point working beyond the point income is clawed back...

    Problem is there is no easy way to fix that without seriously increasing the cut off point at which people can no longer claim benefits (probably to something like £40-45,000 from £30,000).
    In idle moments, I try and think of ways of *temporarily increasing benefits* to those who earn money while on benefits.

    If insane marginal tax rates are just about dissuading people to work more, what would doubling the money they earn do?

    The problem is to prevent it being gamed.
    UBI with progressive taxation. Ensures nobody should be in poverty, can't be gamed and always an incentive to work.
    UBI would require the country to be wealthier than it is now - given the growth curves, within our lifetimes...

    The we can do this

    1) UBI replaces benefits, tax free allowance, state pension.
    2) All income above that taxed.
    3) Single income tax (NI abolished)

    The tax code can be written on a postcard.
    For all the positive theory of UBI, it is certainty that politicians will get hold of it and then we will get the Gordon Brown effect, oh I have found such and such group of people who I think would benefit from some extra funding, so I am going to have a special extra UBI payment for ....and in doing so a group of people who don't need it also get extra....5-10 years down the line and you back in their perverse situation where some people because of unique circumstances are getting extra + extra + extra on their UBI.
    Even worse, the politicians at the election would be arguing over who would increase the basic UBI - for everyone - the most.

    The big unsolvable problem with UBI is how to deal with the wildly different housing costs in different parts of the country. It would be totally impossible to live in London, on UBI and a minimum wage job.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    edited July 2022
    I fear for Penny.

    Truss looks value to me now. I’m afraid I’ve done a 180 from last night but you’ve now got all the ingredients of a classic dividing line being drawn between Culture War/Tax Cuts and Rishinomics. The thing that has changed my mind has been the Nadine/JRM endorsement and the Raab/Shapps endorsement.

    It is far easier to see backers of Suella, Badenoch, Priti, finding their way to Liz than it is to Penny.

    Penny will get transfers from Tugendhat but that won’t get her where she needs to be for the membership round.

    She either needs a big endorsement from one of the figures on the right, ideally this afternoon, or we need to be convinced she has a significant level of support from undeclared Tories.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Thanks for rescuing my comment from the old thread graveyard. I do think it extraordinary that the Tories' main offer to Red Wall voters seems to be getting jettisoned. Seems a risky strategy, and also pretty dishonest.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,652

    I fear for Penny.

    Truss looks value to me now. I’m afraid I’ve done a 180 from last night but you’ve now got all the ingredients of a classic dividing line being drawn between Culture War/Tax Cuts and Rishinomics. The thing that has changed my mind has been the Nadine/JRM endorsement and the Raab/Shapps endorsement.

    It is far easier to see backers of Suella, Badenoch, Priti, finding their way to Liz than it is to Penny.

    Penny will get transfers from Tugendhat but that won’t get her where she needs to be for the membership round.

    She either needs a big endorsement from one of the figures on the right, ideally this afternoon, or we need to be convinced she has a significant level of support from undeclared Tories.

    Double D
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    Yes, having seen that ConHome poll I am much less certain of Sunak than I was 20 minutes ago

    Tory members don’t want him as leader, not sure how he gets around that, unless he can herd the cats of the Tory parliamentary party into giving him a patsy opponent like Hunt

    And there won’t be a coronation. The party is too divided and embittered for that
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492

    I fear for Penny.

    Truss looks value to me now. I’m afraid I’ve done a 180 from last night but you’ve now got all the ingredients of a classic dividing line being drawn between Culture War/Tax Cuts and Rishinomics. The thing that has changed my mind has been the Nadine/JRM endorsement and the Raab/Shapps endorsement.

    It is far easier to see backers of Suella, Badenoch, Priti, finding their way to Liz than it is to Penny.

    Penny will get transfers from Tugendhat but that won’t get her where she needs to be for the membership round.

    She either needs a big endorsement from one of the figures on the right, ideally this afternoon, or we need to be convinced she has a significant level of support from undeclared Tories.

    I'm still hoping the Badenoch can get ahead of Truss with transfers from Braverman, Patel, Zahawi, Javid.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    OnboardG1 said:

    Ugh all this calling of politicians by their first name makes me want to puke. They’re not my pal, or my colleague, they’re want to be PM. Anyone who tries to make that relationship “chummy” should be disqualified.

    There's nothing chummy about it. Its easy to viscerally despise Boris or Keir or whomever.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    Incredible it wasn't known. His PE teacher seems remarkable too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Kemi Badenoch launch event:
    https://youtu.be/TFufofECYuk?t-2508
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Colchester, York and Winchester are all fine. They don't need the extra pressure. And while I'll always bang the gong for Manchester, it's doing ok, and house prices are already too high. Manchester's doing fine; as is Birmnigham (though both have old industrial areas close to the city centre ripe for redevelopment).

    But I think we need somewhere which is central, accessible, and which would benefit from the investment.

    Stoke.

    My other alternative is Coventry. I suggested this to a senior civil servant a few years back, who almost cried at the suggestion. But five minutes later she was bemoaning that a senior civil servant can afford nothing better in London than a 2 bed flat in Streatham, and she took my point when I pointed out the connection. She did, however, bargain for Birmingham rather than Cov.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited July 2022

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Thanks for rescuing my comment from the old thread graveyard. I do think it extraordinary that the Tories' main offer to Red Wall voters seems to be getting jettisoned. Seems a risky strategy, and also pretty dishonest.
    Despite the bollocks they've spouted as regards the "Red Wall", there's a vanishingly small percentage of their members living there.
    Most have probably never even been there.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,969

    I fear for Penny.

    Truss looks value to me now. I’m afraid I’ve done a 180 from last night but you’ve now got all the ingredients of a classic dividing line being drawn between Culture War/Tax Cuts and Rishinomics. The thing that has changed my mind has been the Nadine/JRM endorsement and the Raab/Shapps endorsement.

    It is far easier to see backers of Suella, Badenoch, Priti, finding their way to Liz than it is to Penny.

    Penny will get transfers from Tugendhat but that won’t get her where she needs to be for the membership round.

    She either needs a big endorsement from one of the figures on the right, ideally this afternoon, or we need to be convinced she has a significant level of support from undeclared Tories.

    Agreed. As many have said, Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt seem a likely final three. Braverman, Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi will all be out soon enough (if Patel is even in) and their supporters will coalesce around Truss. Tungendhat and maybe Hunt supporters go to Mordaunt. Maybe Javid supporters to Sunak. So, where does that lead us? Sunak v Truss, with Mordaunt in third?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Thanks for rescuing my comment from the old thread graveyard. I do think it extraordinary that the Tories' main offer to Red Wall voters seems to be getting jettisoned. Seems a risky strategy, and also pretty dishonest.
    The Red Wall seats aren't natural Tory voters but the Tory party is also at risk of losing their core Southern vote and the Tory fear is that once that core vote goes they will have long term problems.

    Plus Tory members want tax cuts because they don't need to care about 25+ years time when they will be dead in the next 15 years.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Good job England bat deep.....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Thanks for rescuing my comment from the old thread graveyard. I do think it extraordinary that the Tories' main offer to Red Wall voters seems to be getting jettisoned. Seems a risky strategy, and also pretty dishonest.
    Weirdly, TT seems to be the best bet for keeping the north onside.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Colchester, York and Winchester are all fine. They don't need the extra pressure. And while I'll always bang the gong for Manchester, it's doing ok, and house prices are already too high. Manchester's doing fine; as is Birmnigham (though both have old industrial areas close to the city centre ripe for redevelopment).

    But I think we need somewhere which is central, accessible, and which would benefit from the investment.

    Stoke.

    My other alternative is Coventry. I suggested this to a senior civil servant a few years back, who almost cried at the suggestion. But five minutes later she was bemoaning that a senior civil servant can afford nothing better in London than a 2 bed flat in Streatham, and she took my point when I pointed out the connection. She did, however, bargain for Birmingham rather than Cov.
    You should have said Warwick.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,753
    Move Parliament to Newcastle.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    CHB is right to say we haven't had a better PM than Blair so far.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,582
    Does this really read as anything other than satire to the Conservative membership? "Who cares about the economy , health, education, Ukraine...there's statues to worry about,"

    NEW

    First all MP Tory leadership hustings is **tonight**.

    Any candidate with over 20 MPs support will be grilled on their approach to the culture wars including controversial statues and British history by the Common Sense Group of Tory MPs. 1/2

    — Christopher Hope📝 (@christopherhope) July 12, 2022
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285

    Move Parliament to Newcastle.

    It's the same problem as York, it's just not big enough....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    kle4 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Ugh all this calling of politicians by their first name makes me want to puke. They’re not my pal, or my colleague, they’re want to be PM. Anyone who tries to make that relationship “chummy” should be disqualified.

    There's nothing chummy about it. Its easy to viscerally despise Boris or Keir or whomever.
    Yes, I don’t think the people shouting “Maggie Maggie Maggie, Out Out Out” were her friends
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Colchester, York and Winchester are all fine. They don't need the extra pressure. And while I'll always bang the gong for Manchester, it's doing ok, and house prices are already too high. Manchester's doing fine; as is Birmnigham (though both have old industrial areas close to the city centre ripe for redevelopment).

    But I think we need somewhere which is central, accessible, and which would benefit from the investment.

    Stoke.

    My other alternative is Coventry. I suggested this to a senior civil servant a few years back, who almost cried at the suggestion. But five minutes later she was bemoaning that a senior civil servant can afford nothing better in London than a 2 bed flat in Streatham, and she took my point when I pointed out the connection. She did, however, bargain for Birmingham rather than Cov.
    Why can't Parliament tour around the country while they do the renovations? 6 months in each city.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,848
    Truss has been silly enough to promise JRM and MadNad that they’ll keep their jobs, hasn’t she?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
    It sounds like he might also be a few years older than his official age, which would make his kicking ass in the Olympics even more impressive.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Leon said:

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    Yes, having seen that ConHome poll I am much less certain of Sunak than I was 20 minutes ago

    Tory members don’t want him as leader, not sure how he gets around that, unless he can herd the cats of the Tory parliamentary party into giving him a patsy opponent like Hunt

    And there won’t be a coronation. The party is too divided and embittered for that
    I don't see Sunak as a viable leader.

    There is no gravitas. There is no depth. There is no broad policy agenda.

    And I know it is trivial, but he is just too shiny. It gives him an artificial plastic appearance that makes him too much of an estate agent or car salesman.

    Just can't take to him.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Colchester, York and Winchester are all fine. They don't need the extra pressure. And while I'll always bang the gong for Manchester, it's doing ok, and house prices are already too high. Manchester's doing fine; as is Birmnigham (though both have old industrial areas close to the city centre ripe for redevelopment).

    But I think we need somewhere which is central, accessible, and which would benefit from the investment.

    Stoke.

    My other alternative is Coventry. I suggested this to a senior civil servant a few years back, who almost cried at the suggestion. But five minutes later she was bemoaning that a senior civil servant can afford nothing better in London than a 2 bed flat in Streatham, and she took my point when I pointed out the connection. She did, however, bargain for Birmingham rather than Cov.
    Why can't Parliament tour around the country while they do the renovations? 6 months in each city.
    Pick any other city and work out where you could host Parliament except in the local arena... Even then it would mean most MPs wouldn't have an office to work in.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485
    Andy_JS said:

    It seems impossible that Sunak won't be in the final two, but nothing is certain in politics.

    Until you convince me he has the 34%, he is very much at risk of a Mordaunt - Truss squeeze to keep him out.

    The sneakiest electorate on the planet?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    The Palace of Westminster will need to be repaired whether or not it remains the home of Parliament.

    A permanent move to another city doesn't take away the need to repair the existing buildings
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285
    IanB2 said:

    Truss has been silly enough to promise JRM and MadNad that they’ll keep their jobs, hasn’t she?

    That's even worse than being the continuation Bozo's policies candidate...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Andy_JS said:

    CHB is right to say we haven't had a better PM than Blair so far.

    In my opinion every PM since Blair has been worse than the last.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,922
    Sunak: whatever you think of Boris, he has a good heart.

    https://youtu.be/yEGlbWEPLsM
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    England 7-3.....be all over by 2pm at this rate.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,285

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    The Palace of Westminster will need to be repaired whether or not it remains the home of Parliament.

    A permanent move to another city doesn't take away the need to repair the existing buildings
    Why would it need to be repaired if it's no longer home of Parliament.

    But the cost of repairing an empty building is X or Y times cheaper than doing repairs when the building is being used.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,328

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Glasgow. Belfast.
    Off Junction 10 of the M6. The Palace of Wednesbury!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807

    I fear for Penny.

    Truss looks value to me now. I’m afraid I’ve done a 180 from last night but you’ve now got all the ingredients of a classic dividing line being drawn between Culture War/Tax Cuts and Rishinomics. The thing that has changed my mind has been the Nadine/JRM endorsement and the Raab/Shapps endorsement.

    It is far easier to see backers of Suella, Badenoch, Priti, finding their way to Liz than it is to Penny.

    Penny will get transfers from Tugendhat but that won’t get her where she needs to be for the membership round.

    She either needs a big endorsement from one of the figures on the right, ideally this afternoon, or we need to be convinced she has a significant level of support from undeclared Tories.

    Agreed. As many have said, Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt seem a likely final three. Braverman, Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi will all be out soon enough (if Patel is even in) and their supporters will coalesce around Truss. Tungendhat and maybe Hunt supporters go to Mordaunt. Maybe Javid supporters to Sunak. So, where does that lead us? Sunak v Truss, with Mordaunt in third?
    That looks most likely to me now.

    Wildcard option: Kemi punches through on the right and wins the battle for those votes against Liz, as a result of strong performances at hustings. Not suggesting it’s likely, but some heads could be turned.

    Then it’s much harder to call: Rishi vs Penny or Rishi v Kemi.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    Ah, OK

    Phew. I don’t think it will ever happen, nor should it happen; it would be an act of self harm

    The UK has one great World City. London. It might be the greatest city on earth, it is easily in the top 5

    No other city in the UK is in the top 100 for “greatness”, probably not even Edinburgh (which is exceedingly handsome but too small for greatness)

    Taking politics out of London would damage our politics and diminish the city at the same time. Stupid
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,448

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    You are so right Oxo - the betting market and lots of PB posts are still in yesterdays fantasy game this morning.

    Rishi is on conveyor belt into last 2, Truss is on conveyor belt into last two and number 10, unless Mordant can prize her out that top two slot.

    it’s so utterly obvious today, why isn’t PB getting it? 😕
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
    It sounds like he might also be a few years older than his official age, which would make his kicking ass in the Olympics even more impressive.
    Also explains his failure to really crack the marathon.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,969
    mwadams said:

    Does this really read as anything other than satire to the Conservative membership? "Who cares about the economy , health, education, Ukraine...there's statues to worry about,"

    NEW

    First all MP Tory leadership hustings is **tonight**.

    Any candidate with over 20 MPs support will be grilled on their approach to the culture wars including controversial statues and British history by the Common Sense Group of Tory MPs. 1/2

    — Christopher Hope📝 (@christopherhope) July 12, 2022
    YouGov issues tracker: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country

    Most important issues facing the country:
    The economy 66%
    Health 36%
    Immigration & asylum 26%
    The environment 24%
    Britain leaving the EU 21%
    rest below 20%

    Conservative voters only
    The economy 73%
    Immigration & asylum 45%
    Health 34%
    rest below 20%
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485
    IanB2 said:

    Truss has been silly enough to promise JRM and MadNad that they’ll keep their jobs, hasn’t she?

    Fair assumption until denied. And even then...

    "Continuity Boris" tag will ultimately do for her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
    It sounds like he might also be a few years older than his official age, which would make his kicking ass in the Olympics even more impressive.
    Also explains his failure to really crack the marathon.
    Perhaps yes, although don't marathon runners normally peak later? Although I guess if he is say 2-3 years older, that means he is in his 40s now, which I presume is too old.
  • Chishti says he "will continue my candidature till the very end, & continue to seek support."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    Yes, having seen that ConHome poll I am much less certain of Sunak than I was 20 minutes ago

    Tory members don’t want him as leader, not sure how he gets around that, unless he can herd the cats of the Tory parliamentary party into giving him a patsy opponent like Hunt

    And there won’t be a coronation. The party is too divided and embittered for that
    I don't see Sunak as a viable leader.

    There is no gravitas. There is no depth. There is no broad policy agenda.

    And I know it is trivial, but he is just too shiny. It gives him an artificial plastic appearance that makes him too much of an estate agent or car salesman.

    Just can't take to him.
    Likewise. He’s tolerable and pleasantly articulate but there’s no spark

    Like others I’ve been looking at Badenoch for the first time and Yes, wow, she has that *something*, for sure

    Which is encouraging. There is ample talent in the lower ranks, coming through - promoted by Boris, let it be said

    Badenoch is the next-leader-but-one?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    Chishti says he "will continue my candidature till the very end, & continue to seek support."

    ...and get none.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386

    Andy_JS said:

    It seems impossible that Sunak won't be in the final two, but nothing is certain in politics.

    Until you convince me he has the 34%, he is very much at risk of a Mordaunt - Truss squeeze to keep him out.

    The sneakiest electorate on the planet?
    You don't need 34% though.
    You need to be in the top two.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
    It sounds like he might also be a few years older than his official age, which would make his kicking ass in the Olympics even more impressive.
    Quite the story.

    There’s a lot going on in the world at the moment, which is mostly being ignored:

    Tide turning in Ukraine, thanks to the NATO MLRS weapons. Another general killed and a massive bomb store blown up.
    Uber being the sh!ttiest company ever, in ways even more sh!tty that we might ever have thought posible.
    Revolution in Sri Lanka
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Kemi Badenoch is right. Ordinary working people don’t need lectures in social morality from multi-million dollar corporates. And the fact the modern left can’t see that tells you all you need to know about the modern left.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1546825483358191618
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Chishti says he "will continue my candidature till the very end, & continue to seek support."

    He’ll be out by tomorrow then!
  • dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It seems impossible that Sunak won't be in the final two, but nothing is certain in politics.

    Until you convince me he has the 34%, he is very much at risk of a Mordaunt - Truss squeeze to keep him out.

    The sneakiest electorate on the planet?
    You don't need 34% though.
    You need to be in the top two.
    That's the only way to guarantee you're in the top two.

    33% and the other two can have 33.5% each
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    York or Winchester would be good for a devolved English parliament.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Or Northampton.
    Colchester, York and Winchester are all fine. They don't need the extra pressure. And while I'll always bang the gong for Manchester, it's doing ok, and house prices are already too high. Manchester's doing fine; as is Birmnigham (though both have old industrial areas close to the city centre ripe for redevelopment).

    But I think we need somewhere which is central, accessible, and which would benefit from the investment.

    Stoke.

    My other alternative is Coventry. I suggested this to a senior civil servant a few years back, who almost cried at the suggestion. But five minutes later she was bemoaning that a senior civil servant can afford nothing better in London than a 2 bed flat in Streatham, and she took my point when I pointed out the connection. She did, however, bargain for Birmingham rather than Cov.
    Why can't Parliament tour around the country while they do the renovations? 6 months in each city.
    Pick any other city and work out where you could host Parliament except in the local arena... Even then it would mean most MPs wouldn't have an office to work in.
    If we're going by that, Rotherham is probably the best place outside of Westminster.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,677
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It seems impossible that Sunak won't be in the final two, but nothing is certain in politics.

    Until you convince me he has the 34%, he is very much at risk of a Mordaunt - Truss squeeze to keep him out.

    The sneakiest electorate on the planet?
    You don't need 34% though.
    You need to be in the top two.
    34% or more ensures top two though, I think that's the point. Of course possible to get through with fewer votes.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    The choice of re-location should be determined by number and standing of Premier league soccer clubs.
    Liverpool then, with the six European Cups.
    Manchester with 18 Premier League titles v Liverpool's 1
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    The Palace of Westminster will need to be repaired whether or not it remains the home of Parliament.

    A permanent move to another city doesn't take away the need to repair the existing buildings
    Why would it need to be repaired if it's no longer home of Parliament.

    But the cost of repairing an empty building is X or Y times cheaper than doing repairs when the building is being used.
    Isn't it a listed building?
    Could be turned into a super hotel. Get 10 minutes at the dispatch box to spout whatever bollocks you like.
    Nowhere else could offer that opportunity.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    The Palace of Westminster will need to be repaired whether or not it remains the home of Parliament.

    A permanent move to another city doesn't take away the need to repair the existing buildings
    Why would it need to be repaired if it's no longer home of Parliament.

    But the cost of repairing an empty building is X or Y times cheaper than doing repairs when the building is being used.
    Because it is a major historic landmark. It is iconic and an important part of our national heritage.

    The idea of it being allowed to slowly disintegrate or even be demolished would be cultural vandalism

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,677
    OllyT said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    The choice of re-location should be determined by number and standing of Premier league soccer clubs.
    Liverpool then, with the six European Cups.
    Manchester with 18 Premier League titles v Liverpool's 1
    York, whose team has never lost a premier league game :tongue:
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Sandpit said:

    Chishti says he "will continue my candidature till the very end, & continue to seek support."

    He’ll be out by tomorrow then!
    I suspect he will be out at 6.01 tonight
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,765

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    You are so right Oxo - the betting market and lots of PB posts are still in yesterdays fantasy game this morning.

    Rishi is on conveyor belt into last 2, Truss is on conveyor belt into last two and number 10, unless Mordant can prize her out that top two slot.

    it’s so utterly obvious today, why isn’t PB getting it? 😕
    Look at the betting posted earlier in this thread, and the implied probabilities on the right. The betting suggests the combined likelihood of either Mordaunt or Truss winning is higher than Sunak.

    2.78 Rishi Sunak 35%
    3.4 Penny Mordaunt 29%
    4.9 Liz Truss 20%
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,651
    Fun middle east FOTD:

    Egypt now pays 54% of its state budge on interest/debt payments.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited July 2022

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
    It sounds like he might also be a few years older than his official age, which would make his kicking ass in the Olympics even more impressive.
    Also explains his failure to really crack the marathon.
    Perhaps yes, although don't marathon runners normally peak later? Although I guess if he is say 2-3 years older, that means he is in his 40s now, which I presume is too old.
    They do. It is customary to move up as you age.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    edited July 2022
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    The Palace of Westminster will need to be repaired whether or not it remains the home of Parliament.

    A permanent move to another city doesn't take away the need to repair the existing buildings
    Why would it need to be repaired if it's no longer home of Parliament.

    But the cost of repairing an empty building is X or Y times cheaper than doing repairs when the building is being used.
    Well yes this is the point. SOMEWHERE needs to be decided on sharpish as the palace of Westminster is falling down.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    FPT - as it's probably worth discussing and not getting lost.

    None of the leadership contenders seems to be talking about levelling up. Focus seems to be on shrinking the state, which helps London and the SE. Have the Tories given up on the Red Wall, or do they hope that going large on Chicks with Dicks will obscure the abandonment of levelling up as a policy objective?

    That isn't going to work when I suspect the Labour manifesto will feature HS2E, NPR and quite possibly given the state of Parliament a plan to move Parliament to Manchester

    * Can't really be Birmingham for reasons and as others have pointed out if you move it to a small place it will total dominate the town / city but would leave whole piles of things in London.
    Why couldn't it be Birmingham ?

    The romantic in me would like Colchester, York or Winchester but none of those will happen.
    Too near London especially with HS2 - you would end up with Parliament in Birmingham and most things left where they were.

    And the whole point of the change would be to change the focus of the country away from being London centric.
    Am I missing something? Since when was it Labour policy to move parliament out of London? It’s a pretty extraordinary move
    I didn't say it was policy - but given the state of Parliament it makes sense to firstly have a discussion about it and secondly whether there are votes in it.

    And up North knocking London down a peg or 2 is probably worth a fair few votes.
    Ah, OK

    Phew. I don’t think it will ever happen, nor should it happen; it would be an act of self harm

    The UK has one great World City. London. It might be the greatest city on earth, it is easily in the top 5

    No other city in the UK is in the top 100 for “greatness”, probably not even Edinburgh (which is exceedingly handsome but too small for greatness)

    Taking politics out of London would damage our politics and diminish the city at the same time. Stupid
    Indeed. This mad narrative is in danger of becoming yet another entry in the inglorious series Things That PB Predicts That Never Happen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Mo Farah story is quite remarkable.

    I am intrigued if the bloke who is supposed to be his brother and got deported for criminality is actually his brother at all. From Mo's story, it sounds like it was trafficked alone, so I guess the answer is no.
    WATO is going to do a segment on it.
    Would have been massive if we weren't focused on Tory shenanigans.
    It sounds like he might also be a few years older than his official age, which would make his kicking ass in the Olympics even more impressive.
    Quite the story.

    There’s a lot going on in the world at the moment, which is mostly being ignored:

    Tide turning in Ukraine, thanks to the NATO MLRS weapons. Another general killed and a massive bomb store blown up.
    Uber being the sh!ttiest company ever, in ways even more sh!tty that we might ever have thought posible.
    Revolution in Sri Lanka
    I fear that Sri Lanka is facing worse than revolution

    When I was in Lanka for most of Jan I read a marvelous book on the country. Elephant Complex. Superb and darkly funny

    But besides amusing me it told me just how phenomenally violent Sri Lanka has been, throughout its history. So violent they view the British colonial era (unlike most other colonies) as a rather golden time of peace. They had no real desire for the Brits to depart, lest the violence return. Which it did. In the civil war. and which it may now do again

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    edited July 2022
    Sunak's campaign must know he's going to struggle to win a members' vote against anyone other than Hunt or Tugendhat. Their strategy therefore may be to get an overwhelming number of votes from MPs in order to pressurise the person in second place to stand down. Unlikely to happen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Sunak probably in the final two but high chance he loses? This is Johnson vs Hunt all over again

    The Tories still want to pick their Corbyn, he was just too scandal ridden. So they'll go for the next best thing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    edited July 2022

    The betting markets seem to not be taking into account Sunak's weakness with the electorate that matters. And that is puzzling

    You are so right Oxo - the betting market and lots of PB posts are still in yesterdays fantasy game this morning.

    Rishi is on conveyor belt into last 2, Truss is on conveyor belt into last two and number 10, unless Mordant can prize her out that top two slot.

    it’s so utterly obvious today, why isn’t PB getting it? 😕
    Look at the betting posted earlier in this thread, and the implied probabilities on the right. The betting suggests the combined likelihood of either Mordaunt or Truss winning is higher than Sunak.

    2.78 Rishi Sunak 35%
    3.4 Penny Mordaunt 29%
    4.9 Liz Truss 20%
    The membership is far less enamoured with the Davos man Rishi Rich, than the MPs.
This discussion has been closed.