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In the VI polling, there’s been a marked shift to LAB – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    I’m starting to think Truss will get it

    Because she will likely win, with the members, if she reaches the final two with Sunak
    It’s timing. If Boris resigned in Feb, Rishi would have got it. Now Truss will beat Rishi in the run off I am pretty certain.

    If it were for LOTO with five years of opposition ahead of them, interesting up and commers like Tom and Penny having good chance rather than no chance.

    A poster yesterday described Zahari the candidate for people who like slithering reptiles 🤣
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    A double wicket maiden. That'll do lad, that'll do.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874

    Can anyone remember the name of the poster who had Sri Lankan links back in the Cameron days?

    Murali_s - he still posts from time to time.
    Thanks, that's the gent. I wonder what he thinks about what is happening over there today...
    I'm afraid Sri Lanka is an example of what happens when a Government gives its rich friends huge tax cuts which effectively leads to a financial crisis as there's not enough tax revenue coming in to fund foreign exchange purchases so the country runs out of small things like food and fuel.

    Rather like the taxation system prior to the Revolution in France where those with real wealth hardly paid any tax at all.

    In Sri Lanka, not surprisingly, the poor who cannot afford basic necessities such as food and fuel have decided to emulate their French forebears and break wind in the palaces of the mighty (well, the President's palace anyway). The President and Prime Minister have effectively run away - none of which of course gets the poor any food or fuel.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    Found it.

    This is what Jolyon said, then deleted:


    I really didn't think Maugham could go down further in my estimation but once again I underestimated him.
    Maugham is actually disgusting.
    Coward too - his 'white people agreed I should delete but people of colour said it was ok' makes his deletion pointless, and ignores plenty of commentators.
    He's doubling down, too:

    Am taking no lectures on racism from Parliamentarians in a Party that chose as its leader a man who described black people as "picaninies", which introduced the racist National and Borders Act, which introduced Voter ID to make it disproportionately more difficult for...

    people of colour to vote, which commissioned a report bizarrely denying the existence of institutional racism, which (also) gaslit survivors of the Windrush generation, which has just appointed as Commissioner of the Met a white man who blamed a "lack of integration" for the...

    rise of the Far Right, whose community website (Conservative Home) shows the top four positions for the leadership all occupied by white people, which introduced the hostile environment, which has been called out by its own former Chair (Baroness Warsi) for racism...

    which fielded a white candidate in the Mayoral election who ran a racist campaign suggesting his Muslim opponent was a terrorist sympathiser, which is systematically stripping away access to legal protections which disproportionately benefit people of colour...

    which objected to the England football team taking the knee to show solidarity with black people experiencing racism, which has run an intellectually deceitful campaign to try and hide the truth behind our colonial past, which has defended statues of slave traders and racists...

    And I'm barely getting started.

    I'm not going to apologise for calling out your racism - and if you actually give a damn about it, I'd suggest tackling that list is a better use of your time rather than plastic fury about my tweet.

    Get in the sea.

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1545643918372573184

    Some of that is a bit of a stretch. And some is walking the edge.

    I think that during this campaign the reactions are going to be as interesting as the candidates, as various peeps try to defend the inerrant truth of their presumptions.
    Even if what he says is true, it doesnt disguise or counter what he said and clearly intended - that he is going the route he is shows why his 'clarification' of what he meant was a lie.

    Indeed, by deleting hes undercut his attempts to push back since he implicitly accepts what he said was wrong.
    As JK Rowling memorably observed on another topic - but applies here too:

    Dear God. When your spade starts melting in the molten heat of the earth's core, stop digging. #JohnsonMustGo

    https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1544711455047573514

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Hunt doesn't stand, it leaves Tugendhat as the only white male in the contest.

    I tell you, it's discrimination!
    American Dad: I miss the days when white males had all the power instead of just most of it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Petronella Wyatt
    @PetronellaWyatt

    A source at Number 10 tells me that Boris Johnson intends to stand down as Prime Minister on Monday, in order to run for the Tory leadership.

    2:03 PM · Jul 9, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/PetronellaWyatt/status/1545755462292971520
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am rooting for Penny too, now we know her as woke and will take the Tory Party on over woke issues and put them right.

    The two biggest threats facing the Conservatives today are the mess they are getting into over woke, and the mess they will be in if they oppose Net Zero 2050 and green taxes to get us there. Those two things can keep them out of power for decades.

    So, by how much further should prices for petrol and domestic fuel be allowed to rise, in order to maintain the commitment to Net Zero?

    A question on which it would be useful to see some polling in Con/Lab marginal seats.
    Fuel prices aren't rising because of the commitment to net zero.
    The failure to cut fuel duty and VAT on domestic fuel - which is probably the largest single factor in current rising inflation, has Net Zero and Treasury capture all over it.

    My two big reservations about Rishi, are that he’s too rich to notice the effect of fuel prices on average people, and that he was totally housetrained by the Treasury mandarins.
    What Rishi needs is a non-comprised Andy Coulson type, somebody who has an idea about normal folk and is well connected to the media to know how to sell it.

    It appears Rishi campiagn is being run by yet another posho PR whipper snapper, i am sure is good on making the flashy PR vids but less sure any more clue about normal folk.
    Yes, very much so. There were very good reasons behind the lengths Dave went to, in order to save Coulson back in 2011.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    I’m starting to think Truss will get it

    Because she will likely win, with the members, if she reaches the final two with Sunak
    It’s timing. If Boris resigned in Feb, Rishi would have got it. Now Truss will beat Rishi in the run off I am pretty certain.

    If it were for LOTO with five years of opposition ahead of them, interesting up and commers like Tom and Penny having good chance rather than no chance.

    A poster yesterday described Zahari the candidate for people who like slithering reptiles 🤣
    My finest hour.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    edited July 2022
    For some reason, the Ladies' Singles Final at Wimbledon isn't getting mentioned much on here.

    Jabeur took the first set 6-3 but is 3-1 down to Ryabakina in the second. Jabeur had four break points in the second set but missed them all. That could be costly.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    I'm still confused.
    Is Boris eligible to run or not?
    I do hope he tries to, although I am in danger of becoming popcorn.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Sandpit said:

    I am rooting for Penny too, now we know her as woke and will take the Tory Party on over woke issues and put them right.

    The two biggest threats facing the Conservatives today are the mess they are getting into over woke, and the mess they will be in if they oppose Net Zero 2050 and green taxes to get us there. Those two things can keep them out of power for decades.

    So, by how much further should prices for petrol and domestic fuel be allowed to rise, in order to maintain the commitment to Net Zero?

    A question on which it would be useful to see some polling in Con/Lab marginal seats.
    The Tories will put themselves out of power for a long time if they oppose the electorate on NET zero.

    https://www.ukonward.com/reports/taking-the-temperature/

    The tangle Tories are in over woke, and mess they could get in opposing Net zero, are the two biggest electoral threats to them, how they are dealt with in this leadership election are very important.

    I’m convinced of this, but also reasonably open minded if you can post something to prove otherwise

    Both issues are fringe issues. The problem is that they matter very much to political minorities.
    People don't really see the woke stuff. It isn't very salient.
    As for net zero, I can see with my own eyes that people aren't really interested. Massive queues at the airport, more traffic on the road than ever, people driving 0.3 miles to take their children to school, etc etc.
    Even people that claim to be pro environmentalist, are often the worst offenders.
    The cost of food and heating. below inflation pay etc, however is going to lead to massive political reckoning.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited July 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    the british press is the most independent and impartial in the world and they’ve held this government to account.

    now here’s an article from boris johnson’s father, michael gove’s wife, carrie johnson’s ex bf, boris johnson’s sister, and the magazine boris johnson used to run


    https://twitter.com/demarionunn/status/1545360136234991616

    And? Plenty of articles from non Johnsons.

    Boris's own brother quit his government, they clearly wont always agree as a family.

    He got a peerage as a make up gift in fairness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigGs support for Sunak makes no sense.

    Work out HYUFD for remainer Tom :D
    Remainer, Catholic or Jewish, proactively pro choice pro gay marriage tom. Some reboot
    Tugendhat isn't particularly pro abortion and voted against assisted suicide, given I was a Remainer being a Remainer but respecting Brexit like Tugendhat not a problem for me
    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/may-urged-to-end-northern-ireland-ban-on-abortion-and-gay-marriage-as-tory-mps-join-labour-bid-to-change-law_uk_5bcefca5e4b0a8f17ef05bf2

    He was proactive in bringing NI into line on gay marriage and abortion
    Tugendhat also voted against euthanasia. He wasn't my first choice, Wallace was but he is my first choice of the candidates declared
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    stodge said:

    For some reason, the Ladies' Singles Final at Wimbledon isn't getting mentioned much on here.

    Jabeur took the first set 6-3 but is 3-1 down to Ryabakina in the second. Jabeur had four break points in the second set but missed them all. That could be costly.

    Breaks again!!!!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Louise Mensch 🇺🇸🇺🇦
    @LouiseMensch
    Sulking. Morosely eating strawberries and bacon French Toast because Ben Wallace won’t stand.

    Oh well. Things will probably look better after my emergency order of a consoling breakfast."

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/08/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Is Louise Mensch ex-MP a SeanT account?
    I’ve met her, she’s definitely not SeanT.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    I’m starting to think Truss will get it

    Because she will likely win, with the members, if she reaches the final two with Sunak
    It’s timing. If Boris resigned in Feb, Rishi would have got it. Now Truss will beat Rishi in the run off I am pretty certain.

    If it were for LOTO with five years of opposition ahead of them, interesting up and commers like Tom and Penny having good chance rather than no chance.

    A poster yesterday described Zahari the candidate for people who like slithering reptiles 🤣
    My finest hour.
    I called him a snake first. @YBarddCwsc pointed out the contract killer angle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    I’m starting to think Truss will get it

    Because she will likely win, with the members, if she reaches the final two with Sunak
    It’s timing. If Boris resigned in Feb, Rishi would have got it. Now Truss will beat Rishi in the run off I am pretty certain.

    If it were for LOTO with five years of opposition ahead of them, interesting up and commers like Tom and Penny having good chance rather than no chance.

    A poster yesterday described Zahari the candidate for people who like slithering reptiles 🤣
    My finest hour.
    I called him a snake first. @YBarddCwsc pointed out the contract killer angle.
    I was standing on the shoulder of giants.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    I’m starting to think Truss will get it

    Because she will likely win, with the members, if she reaches the final two with Sunak
    It depends whether Mordaunt or Braverman can overtake Truss. Maybe they can.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Hunt doesn't stand, it leaves Tugendhat as the only white male in the contest.

    I tell you, it's discrimination!
    American Dad: I miss the days when white males had all the power instead of just most of it.
    Me, I just do what I am told.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    It is noticeable that the so-called progressive party hasn't even come close to electing anything that a white male leader.

    Quotas and so-called 'affirmative action' do not seem to work in attracting potential leaders.
    How do you define “close”? Rebecca Long Bailey was second placed in 2020, although Starmer had a large lead. Yvette Cooper was third in 2015, only just behind second placed Burnham, albeit a long way behind Corbyn.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Anyway you can bet on Sunak losing the membership vote?
    Because that's looking favourite to me.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 2022
    Why did the BBC have to choose now to show their only live international men's cricket match? Same time as the Wimbledon final. Stupid.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    dixiedean said:

    Anyway you can bet on Sunak losing the membership vote?
    Because that's looking favourite to me.

    If he loses it to Braverman people won't be able to accuse the members of being racists.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874


    It is noticeable that the so-called progressive party hasn't even come close to electing anything that a white male leader.

    Quotas and so-called 'affirmative action' do not seem to work in attracting potential leaders.

    Set against the power of money, you're quite correct.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
    I think May is fine (in theory anyway) because of the word "subsequent". There's been a leadership election since May resigned. So I think if she wanted she could stand in one after. But I'm just guessing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Andy_JS said:

    Why did the BBC have to choose now to show their only live international men's cricket match? Same time as the Wimbledon final. Stupid.

    It was probably the cheapest.
    Because of the Wimbledon final.
    If they spent less on their bloated coverage of Wimbledon, maybe they could afford more?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
    subsequent election - so Mrs May could stand (but she’s not that daft).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
    the rules were changed after Major
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Why did the BBC have to choose now to show their only live international men's cricket match? Same time as the Wimbledon final. Stupid.

    The Ladies' Final goes to a deciding third set as Rybakina wins the second set 6-2.

    On ATP rankings, Jabeur is 2 and Rybakina 23 so the latter is doing very well.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Rybakina takes 2nd set
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,163
    edited July 2022
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am rooting for Penny too, now we know her as woke and will take the Tory Party on over woke issues and put them right.

    The two biggest threats facing the Conservatives today are the mess they are getting into over woke, and the mess they will be in if they oppose Net Zero 2050 and green taxes to get us there. Those two things can keep them out of power for decades.

    So, by how much further should prices for petrol and domestic fuel be allowed to rise, in order to maintain the commitment to Net Zero?

    A question on which it would be useful to see some polling in Con/Lab marginal seats.
    The Tories will put themselves out of power for a long time if they oppose the electorate on NET zero.

    https://www.ukonward.com/reports/taking-the-temperature/

    The tangle Tories are in over woke, and mess they could get in opposing Net zero, are the two biggest electoral threats to them, how they are dealt with in this leadership election are very important.

    I’m convinced of this, but also reasonably open minded if you can post something to prove otherwise
    Both issues are fringe issues. The problem is that they matter very much to political minorities.
    People don't really see the woke stuff. It isn't very salient.
    As for net zero, I can see with my own eyes that people aren't really interested. Massive queues at the airport, more traffic on the road than ever, people driving 0.3 miles to take their children to school, etc etc.
    Even people that claim to be pro environmentalist, are often the worst offenders.
    The cost of food and heating. below inflation pay etc, however is going to lead to massive political reckoning.

    Net Zero is not a fringe political issue. It may be an issue where personal hypocrisy is evident, but that is another thing.

    I'm not really clear if anyone is in a tangle over woke - for Tories so far it seems to be a fringe issue. Whether that will continue, I don't know. I guess it depends which bit of woke you are discussing.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    I'm still confused.
    Is Boris eligible to run or not?
    I do hope he tries to, although I am in danger of becoming popcorn.

    I mean lets all keep quiet. Let him stand down as PM which we all would like anyway then let him find out he cant stand, he has no power and he's yesterdays fool for all our tomorrows
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    stodge said:

    The Ladies' Final goes to a deciding third set as Ryabakina wins the second set 6-2.

    IshmaelZ said:

    Rybakina takes 2nd set

    I cashed out this morning cos I didn't think she would win. damnit
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigGs support for Sunak makes no sense.

    Work out HYUFD for remainer Tom :D
    Tom and HY both voted remain and remainers stick together thick as thieves in their watering down Brexit planning?
    For clarification I do like Rishi and believe he would act responsibly with finance, but I am not averse to Tugendhat or Mordaunt but not convinced on Truss

    However they all are infinitely better than Johnson and I am looking forward to watching the race and as importantly the new cabinet which I will support 100%

    Johnson leaving has changed the entire political landscape
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    It is noticeable that the so-called progressive party hasn't even come close to electing anything that a white male leader.

    Quotas and so-called 'affirmative action' do not seem to work in attracting potential leaders.
    How do you define “close”? Rebecca Long Bailey was second placed in 2020, although Starmer had a large lead. Yvette Cooper was third in 2015, only just behind second placed Burnham, albeit a long way behind Corbyn.
    That's an "interesting case" because I think Burnham v. Cooper sans Corbyn would have seen Cooper win.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Who was Education Secretary until last week?

    Our investigation into outside organisations providing sex education in schools uncovers material describing prostitution as “rewarding work” and promoting being locked in a cage, flogged, caned, beaten and slapped in the face. Story with @char_wace

    https://twitter.com/benellery/status/1545687662006247424
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Has the PM actually resigned? Genuine Q…

    “It is now clearly the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister and I have agreed…the process of choosing that new leader should begin now”


    https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1545776304099827712
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    Yes, a bit like with the letter he apparently didn't send to Brussels requesting a Brexit extension, except there isn't even a letter in this case.

    I'd have to read the Tory Party Constitution more closely to see if there's any way a leadership contest could take place, absent the death, resignation, or loss of confidence in the incumbent.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Rybakina breaks first game
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Truss would likely win the membership
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
    the rules were changed after Major
    Yes but Boris didn't actually lose a vote which would have made himself ineligible. What a mess. The car crash is then run over by a steam roller. And then nuked from orbit. Just to be sure.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigGs support for Sunak makes no sense.

    Work out HYUFD for remainer Tom :D
    Tom and HY both voted remain and remainers stick together thick as thieves in their watering down Brexit planning?
    For clarification I do like Rishi and believe he would act responsibly with finance, but I am not averse to Tugendhat or Mordaunt but not convinced on Truss

    However they all are infinitely better than Johnson and I am looking forward to watching the race and as importantly the new cabinet which I will support 100%

    Johnson leaving has changed the entire political landscape
    In what way? No election winner leading the Tories?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyway you can bet on Sunak losing the membership vote?
    Because that's looking favourite to me.

    If he loses it to Braverman people won't be able to accuse the members of being racists.
    Well no.
    I just reckon, right now, it will be Sunak v AN Other. And I think the value is against him.
    I've pointed out he's never really had to campaign to win an election in his life.
    Others noted. He got really tetchy about some quite legitimate questions about his wife's tax status. And he's never faced a setback.
    He'll almost certainly face someone to his right.
    His tax policy won't be popular with the membership.
    Number 10 will be gunning for him. And will know some stuff. As the frontrunner, so will everyone else.
    None of those are to do with his race.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Has the PM actually resigned? Genuine Q…

    “It is now clearly the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister and I have agreed…the process of choosing that new leader should begin now”


    https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1545776304099827712
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
    Im guessing this is something Old Lady Brady would have scrupulously checked Friday AM as he has no authority to start a race without something concrete id have thought?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    Jonathan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigGs support for Sunak makes no sense.

    Work out HYUFD for remainer Tom :D
    Tom and HY both voted remain and remainers stick together thick as thieves in their watering down Brexit planning?
    For clarification I do like Rishi and believe he would act responsibly with finance, but I am not averse to Tugendhat or Mordaunt but not convinced on Truss

    However they all are infinitely better than Johnson and I am looking forward to watching the race and as importantly the new cabinet which I will support 100%

    Johnson leaving has changed the entire political landscape
    In what way? No election winner leading the Tories?
    They all could win against Starmer
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Jonathan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigGs support for Sunak makes no sense.

    Work out HYUFD for remainer Tom :D
    Tom and HY both voted remain and remainers stick together thick as thieves in their watering down Brexit planning?
    For clarification I do like Rishi and believe he would act responsibly with finance, but I am not averse to Tugendhat or Mordaunt but not convinced on Truss

    However they all are infinitely better than Johnson and I am looking forward to watching the race and as importantly the new cabinet which I will support 100%

    Johnson leaving has changed the entire political landscape
    In what way? No election winner leading the Tories?
    They all could win against Starmer
    Nah.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
    the rules were changed after Major
    Yes but Boris didn't actually lose a vote which would have made himself ineligible. What a mess. The car crash is then run over by a steam roller. And then nuked from orbit. Just to be sure.
    Any attempt at jiggery or indeed pokery and its rule change, VONC, He's out as leader by Monday bedtime
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Leon said:

    One thing: this time, it is not going to be a posh white male

    Wallace is out and Hunt is nearly out and Tugendhat hasn’t got a chance

    We are left with women and ethnic minority candidates

    What's interesting is how naturally this happens if you LEAVE ALL IDENTITY POLITICS OUT OF IT.

    FFS, just treat people like individuals.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited July 2022

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Truss would likely win the membership
    Yes I agree with PB consensus developing today, Truss wins this. But at least that is the very worst result for Labour as Truss is continuity Boris policies without the liar Boris - so Truss is best Tory candidate for holding the red wall and winning back lost women voters in the blue wall.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyway you can bet on Sunak losing the membership vote?
    Because that's looking favourite to me.

    If he loses it to Braverman people won't be able to accuse the members of being racists.
    I don't think even the current incarnation of the Tory party is bonkers enough to put Braverman forward.

    I can't see her getting more than 50-60 MPs, at best.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I don't think even the current incarnation of the Tory party is bonkers enough to put Braverman forward.

    I can't see her getting more than 50-60 MPs, at best.

    Nailed on...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    edited July 2022

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Truss would likely win the membership
    Yes I agree with PB consensus developing today, Truss wins this. But at least that is the very worst result for Labour as Truss is continuity Boris policies without the liar Boris - so Truss is best Tory candidate for holding the red wall and winning back lost women voters in the blue wall.
    I want to listen to both of them in the hustings if it goes to the membership but you do have a valid point and a third female conservative PM while labour obsess over Starmer and Streeting
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Right now, this is Sunak's to lose. His momentum might simply get so large that the 2016 leadership election experience repeats itself with him overwhelming winning the MPs and just him and an also-ran going forward to the members, upon whom a huge amount of pressure is put upon to withdraw.

    IMHO, the party will want to wrap this up by the end of July.

    The candidates he should be worried about: Mordaunt, Badenoch and Truss.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyway you can bet on Sunak losing the membership vote?
    Because that's looking favourite to me.

    If he loses it to Braverman people won't be able to accuse the members of being racists.
    I don't think even the current incarnation of the Tory party is bonkers enough to put Braverman forward.

    I can't see her getting more than 50-60 MPs, at best.
    That's enough for top 4, at least. And a Cabinet post, maybe very senior, and a vast say in who comes second.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    I’m starting to think Truss will get it

    Because she will likely win, with the members, if she reaches the final two with Sunak
    It’s timing. If Boris resigned in Feb, Rishi would have got it. Now Truss will beat Rishi in the run off I am pretty certain.

    If it were for LOTO with five years of opposition ahead of them, interesting up and commers like Tom and Penny having good chance rather than no chance.

    A poster yesterday described Zahari the candidate for people who like slithering reptiles 🤣
    My finest hour.
    I called him a snake first. @YBarddCwsc pointed out the contract killer angle.
    I was standing on the shoulder of giants.
    PB is all about standing on the shoulders of giants 🙂
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Has the PM actually resigned? Genuine Q…

    “It is now clearly the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister and I have agreed…the process of choosing that new leader should begin now”


    https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1545776304099827712
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
    There is a contest, so he will have been deemed to have resigned.

    In good precedent with British tradition - MPs deemed to have requested appointment to Steward of the Childtern Hundreds if they ask to resign (as Sinn Fein MPs have done), James II deeemed to have abdicated.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Truss would likely win the membership
    Yes I agree with PB consensus developing today, Truss wins this. But at least that is the very worst result for Labour as Truss is continuity Boris policies without the liar Boris - so Truss is best Tory candidate for holding the red wall and winning back lost women voters in the blue wall.
    I want to listen to both of them in the hustings if it goes to the membership but you do have a valid point and a third female conservative PM while labour obsess over Starmer and Streeting
    Who exactly is obsessing about Starmer and Streeting again?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Javid is expected to launch tomorrow.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    Found it.

    This is what Jolyon said, then deleted:


    I really didn't think Maugham could go down further in my estimation but once again I underestimated him.
    Maugham is actually disgusting.
    What man goes out in a kimono with a baseball bat with the express intention of smashing a fox to death. Twice
    I don't like foxes particularly (fox shit is disgusting in the garden), but I can't even contemplate beating them to death with a baseball bat.
    To make it worse, he then gloated about his “weird Boxing Day” (of fox smashing) on Twitter

    His wife should delete his Twitter account
    Or at the very least put a lock on her lingerie draw.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    Scott_xP said:

    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520

    You and some others seem to be in an alternative universe

    Johnson is history
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Scott_xP said:
    If you read the wording of the endorsement then that makes no sense at all as a reason to back him for PM other than: "he was my boss, and he's also my mate."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kle4 said:

    There is a contest, so he will have been deemed to have resigned.

    This is the key though.

    BoZo pisses all over precedent.

    The contest has started on the assumption that he will resign, but he hasn't actually done it, or said it.

    And not having resigned, he is not prevented by the rules from standing in the contest.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    dixiedean said:

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Truss would likely win the membership
    Yes I agree with PB consensus developing today, Truss wins this. But at least that is the very worst result for Labour as Truss is continuity Boris policies without the liar Boris - so Truss is best Tory candidate for holding the red wall and winning back lost women voters in the blue wall.
    I want to listen to both of them in the hustings if it goes to the membership but you do have a valid point and a third female conservative PM while labour obsess over Starmer and Streeting
    Who exactly is obsessing about Starmer and Streeting again?
    Labour
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    Roy has so far had a hell of a day. Dropped catch, wild throw costing a run. We can only hope it improves when he gets a bat in his hands. He was well out of sorts in the last game.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Scott_xP said:

    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520

    But if he hasn't resigned then there isn't a vacancy.
    This line of reasoning really makes no sense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Hang on - didn't John Major resign to fight the 1995 leadership election? Maybe I'm wrong.

    On that same basis, is Theresa May ineligible to stand because she was a leader and she resigned - does that mean no ex-leader can ever be leader again?
    'Subsequent leadership election'. So she's eligible. As for Major, long time ago, different rules no doubt.

    As for whether Boris has resigned or merely indicated he would be resigning, if he wants to play that game I think the 1922 are on solid ground.

    Interestingly this link has a slightly different wording.

    A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election

    https://public.conservatives.com/organisation-department/202101/Conservative Party Constitution as amended January 2021.pdf

    'Resigning' not 'resigned'
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874


    They all could win against Starmer

    I understand your desire to see the Conservative Party remain in Government ad infinitum but this is just nonsense.

    Yes, there will be a polling "bounce" while the new leader takes over and seeks to undo some of the damage inflicted by Johnson but the economic basics are exactly the same and we all know it's going to be a difficult winter if not year.

    For all the platitudes about not wanting to raise taxes, Sunak had to raise taxes and I suspect his successor will because the demands on the public finances are severe (more money on defence, more Police, more for the NHS etc) and presumably you would not want to stand up and advocate cuts to public spending - perhaps we should cut welfare, slash pensions by 20% or slash local Government spending.

    The honeymoon won't last and in six months I reckon the knives will be out for the successor - Wallace has understood this which is probably why he isn't standing. He'll wait until the defeat and put himself forward to be the LOTO.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,900
    Scott_xP said:

    👀

    “A leader who resigns is not eligible to contest the subsequent leadership election”

    Page 5 of this - on the current Tory leadership rules.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf

    Source: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545772737267892224/photo/1

    Those would be the current leadership rules that could easily be changed after the election of the 1922 executive on Monday.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Truss would likely win the membership
    Yes I agree with PB consensus developing today, Truss wins this. But at least that is the very worst result for Labour as Truss is continuity Boris policies without the liar Boris - so Truss is best Tory candidate for holding the red wall and winning back lost women voters in the blue wall.
    I want to listen to both of them in the hustings if it goes to the membership but you do have a valid point and a third female conservative PM while labour obsess over Starmer and Streeting
    Who exactly is obsessing about Starmer and Streeting again?
    Labour
    How?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    Found it.

    This is what Jolyon said, then deleted:


    I really didn't think Maugham could go down further in my estimation but once again I underestimated him.
    Maugham is actually disgusting.
    What man goes out in a kimono with a baseball bat with the express intention of smashing a fox to death. Twice
    I don't like foxes particularly (fox shit is disgusting in the garden), but I can't even contemplate beating them to death with a baseball bat.
    To make it worse, he then gloated about his “weird Boxing Day” (of fox smashing) on Twitter

    His wife should delete his Twitter account
    Or at the very least put a lock on her lingerie draw.
    Tories (many, or at least some):

    Killing a fox with a baseball bat, quickly and economically = BAAAD
    Ditto, inefficiently at huge expense with a horde of dogs, horses and assistants, with sabs getting in the way = GLORIOUS TRADITION
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    stodge said:


    They all could win against Starmer

    I understand your desire to see the Conservative Party remain in Government ad infinitum but this is just nonsense.

    Yes, there will be a polling "bounce" while the new leader takes over and seeks to undo some of the damage inflicted by Johnson but the economic basics are exactly the same and we all know it's going to be a difficult winter if not year.

    For all the platitudes about not wanting to raise taxes, Sunak had to raise taxes and I suspect his successor will because the demands on the public finances are severe (more money on defence, more Police, more for the NHS etc) and presumably you would not want to stand up and advocate cuts to public spending - perhaps we should cut welfare, slash pensions by 20% or slash local Government spending.

    The honeymoon won't last and in six months I reckon the knives will be out for the successor - Wallace has understood this which is probably why he isn't standing. He'll wait until the defeat and put himself forward to be the LOTO.

    Agree with most of that.
    But maybe Wallace doesn't want it/think he's up to it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited July 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    There is a contest, so he will have been deemed to have resigned.

    This is the key though.

    BoZo pisses all over precedent.

    The contest has started on the assumption that he will resign, but he hasn't actually done it, or said it.

    And not having resigned, he is not prevented by the rules from standing in the contest.
    Not a question of precedent, it still doesn't make any sense - no contest unless there is a vacancy, and there has been no vote of confidence so there must have been a resignation to create that vacancy.

    A leader who has not resigned is eligibible in a leadership contest is not in the rules (in the 'aint no rule a dog cannot play basketball' sense) because it would be a rule which cannot be implemented as it is contradictory.

    If he claims he has not resigned the 1922 cannot announce rules for a contest - they can instead change the rules to allow a VONC which he would definitely lose.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,900
    edited July 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Has the PM actually resigned? Genuine Q…

    “It is now clearly the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister and I have agreed…the process of choosing that new leader should begin now”


    https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1545776304099827712
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
    Im guessing this is something Old Lady Brady would have scrupulously checked Friday AM as he has no authority to start a race without something concrete id have thought?
    Brady has not started the contest. Boris lit the blue touch paper. The rules will not be published till Tuesday after the 1922 election on Monday.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/08/britain-have-new-prime-minister-september-5-secret-conservative/ (£££)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    stodge said:


    They all could win against Starmer

    I understand your desire to see the Conservative Party remain in Government ad infinitum but this is just nonsense.

    Yes, there will be a polling "bounce" while the new leader takes over and seeks to undo some of the damage inflicted by Johnson but the economic basics are exactly the same and we all know it's going to be a difficult winter if not year.

    For all the platitudes about not wanting to raise taxes, Sunak had to raise taxes and I suspect his successor will because the demands on the public finances are severe (more money on defence, more Police, more for the NHS etc) and presumably you would not want to stand up and advocate cuts to public spending - perhaps we should cut welfare, slash pensions by 20% or slash local Government spending.

    The honeymoon won't last and in six months I reckon the knives will be out for the successor - Wallace has understood this which is probably why he isn't standing. He'll wait until the defeat and put himself forward to be the LOTO.

    Of course you would see it that way but Johnson going has changed the narrative and opened the possibility to a 24 GE win as unlikely as it may seem

    I would just say it will not be a Labour coronation
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    Found it.

    This is what Jolyon said, then deleted:


    I really didn't think Maugham could go down further in my estimation but once again I underestimated him.
    Maugham is actually disgusting.
    What man goes out in a kimono with a baseball bat with the express intention of smashing a fox to death. Twice
    I don't like foxes particularly (fox shit is disgusting in the garden), but I can't even contemplate beating them to death with a baseball bat.
    To make it worse, he then gloated about his “weird Boxing Day” (of fox smashing) on Twitter

    His wife should delete his Twitter account
    Or at the very least put a lock on her lingerie draw.
    Tories (many, or at least some):

    Killing a fox with a baseball bat, quickly and economically = BAAAD
    Ditto, inefficiently at huge expense with a horde of dogs, horses and assistants, with sabs getting in the way = GLORIOUS TRADITION
    It would be better if the dogs wore kimonos.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Scott_xP said:

    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520

    You and some others seem to be in an alternative universe

    Johnson is history
    But in alternative universes all of us get to be right some of the time, just not at the same time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520

    But if he hasn't resigned then there isn't a vacancy.
    This line of reasoning really makes no sense.
    Nothing new for @Scott_xP
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kle4 said:

    no contest unless there is a vacancy

    Says who?

    The rulebook doesn't say that.

    BoZo explicitly didn't say it.

    He said "there will be a contest". He didn't say "I am resigning so there will be a contest"
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696

    Who was Education Secretary until last week?

    Our investigation into outside organisations providing sex education in schools uncovers material describing prostitution as “rewarding work” and promoting being locked in a cage, flogged, caned, beaten and slapped in the face. Story with @char_wace

    https://twitter.com/benellery/status/1545687662006247424

    They gonna ban the Catholic church from running schools?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520

    But if he hasn't resigned then there isn't a vacancy.
    This line of reasoning really makes no sense.
    Nothing new for @Scott_xP
    I agree this is a nonsense.

    But if he hasn’t resigned, there doesn’t need to be a contest.

    I would not be surprised to discover that after Boris’s “moment of clarity” yesterday morning, he is having a “moment of regret” today.
    Plus, it’s clear Boris entertains these Attic notions of triumphantly overcoming the odds.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053
    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:


    They all could win against Starmer

    I understand your desire to see the Conservative Party remain in Government ad infinitum but this is just nonsense.

    Yes, there will be a polling "bounce" while the new leader takes over and seeks to undo some of the damage inflicted by Johnson but the economic basics are exactly the same and we all know it's going to be a difficult winter if not year.

    For all the platitudes about not wanting to raise taxes, Sunak had to raise taxes and I suspect his successor will because the demands on the public finances are severe (more money on defence, more Police, more for the NHS etc) and presumably you would not want to stand up and advocate cuts to public spending - perhaps we should cut welfare, slash pensions by 20% or slash local Government spending.

    The honeymoon won't last and in six months I reckon the knives will be out for the successor - Wallace has understood this which is probably why he isn't standing. He'll wait until the defeat and put himself forward to be the LOTO.

    Agree with most of that.
    But maybe Wallace doesn't want it/think he's up to it?
    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:


    They all could win against Starmer

    I understand your desire to see the Conservative Party remain in Government ad infinitum but this is just nonsense.

    Yes, there will be a polling "bounce" while the new leader takes over and seeks to undo some of the damage inflicted by Johnson but the economic basics are exactly the same and we all know it's going to be a difficult winter if not year.

    For all the platitudes about not wanting to raise taxes, Sunak had to raise taxes and I suspect his successor will because the demands on the public finances are severe (more money on defence, more Police, more for the NHS etc) and presumably you would not want to stand up and advocate cuts to public spending - perhaps we should cut welfare, slash pensions by 20% or slash local Government spending.

    The honeymoon won't last and in six months I reckon the knives will be out for the successor - Wallace has understood this which is probably why he isn't standing. He'll wait until the defeat and put himself forward to be the LOTO.

    Agree with most of that.
    But maybe Wallace doesn't want it/think he's up to it?
    He is favourite for head of NATO in October 2023
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    There is a contest, so he will have been deemed to have resigned.

    This is the key though.

    BoZo pisses all over precedent.

    The contest has started on the assumption that he will resign, but he hasn't actually done it, or said it.

    And not having resigned, he is not prevented by the rules from standing in the contest.
    He wouldn't get to the final two of the MPs vote even if it was allowed.

    So it would be pointless.
  • dixiedean said:

    Anyway you can bet on Sunak losing the membership vote?
    Because that's looking favourite to me.

    You can lay Sunak as next PM on Betfair. I got 3.7 earlier. Can't see him winning the membership.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,053

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Has the PM actually resigned? Genuine Q…

    “It is now clearly the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister and I have agreed…the process of choosing that new leader should begin now”


    https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1545776304099827712
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
    Im guessing this is something Old Lady Brady would have scrupulously checked Friday AM as he has no authority to start a race without something concrete id have thought?
    Brady has not started the contest. Boris lit the blue touch paper. The rules will not be published till Tuesday after the 1922 election on Monday.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/08/britain-have-new-prime-minister-september-5-secret-conservative/ (£££)
    The rules and procedures will be announced by the 1922 on Monday evening
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Ryb serving 4 match
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Now that WOULD be a plot twist.
    Rules say someone who’s resigned can’t stand. But - seriously - has @BorisJohnson ever said that he’s resigned?

    https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1545778924709355521
    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1545755462292971520

    But if he hasn't resigned then there isn't a vacancy.
    This line of reasoning really makes no sense.
    Nothing new for @Scott_xP
    I agree this is a nonsense.

    But if he hasn’t resigned, there doesn’t need to be a contest.

    I would not be surprised to discover that after Boris’s “moment of clarity” yesterday morning, he is having a “moment of regret” today.
    Plus, it’s clear Boris entertains these Attic notions of triumphantly overcoming the odds.
    If he doesn't resign he'll be VoNC on Wednesday by almost 300 MPs and then there will be a contest on Thursday.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    I have long assumed that in a Sunak v Truss contest, Truss wins the membership. I wonder if @HYUFD and @MarqueeMark could confirm.

    Kemi already has five supporters, same as Tugendhat and Truss.

    Don’t accept that at all.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    OK, fun's over (maybe)

    NEW: No10 say Boris Johnson will not attempt to stand in any leadership contest.

    “That’s untrue” said a No10 source
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874

    stodge said:


    They all could win against Starmer

    I understand your desire to see the Conservative Party remain in Government ad infinitum but this is just nonsense.

    Yes, there will be a polling "bounce" while the new leader takes over and seeks to undo some of the damage inflicted by Johnson but the economic basics are exactly the same and we all know it's going to be a difficult winter if not year.

    For all the platitudes about not wanting to raise taxes, Sunak had to raise taxes and I suspect his successor will because the demands on the public finances are severe (more money on defence, more Police, more for the NHS etc) and presumably you would not want to stand up and advocate cuts to public spending - perhaps we should cut welfare, slash pensions by 20% or slash local Government spending.

    The honeymoon won't last and in six months I reckon the knives will be out for the successor - Wallace has understood this which is probably why he isn't standing. He'll wait until the defeat and put himself forward to be the LOTO.

    Of course you would see it that way but Johnson going has changed the narrative and opened the possibility to a 24 GE win as unlikely as it may seem

    I would just say it will not be a Labour coronation
    I don't think it's changed as much as you think. Johnson still could have recovered and led the Conservatives to a 2024 GE win - unlikely, improbable even but no more unlikely than those who thought Thatcher would still have beaten Kinnock again in a 1991 GE.

    You are hoping the Conservative Party will somehow be "cleansed" by Johnson's departure - rather like the scapegoat, put all the faults, problems and issues onto Johnson - blame him and hope somehow people will forget those who aided an abetted him. If all the Tories are "loyal" to the new leader and cabinet everything will be all right.

    I merely point out all the other issues against which people protested in Wakefield, in Tiverton & Honiton, in Charlwood on Thursday and elsewhere haven't gone away. The cost of living issues haven't gone away - rising fuel bills haven't gone away yet all we hear is the stupidity of "tax cuts" as though somehow giving people a little bit back will help (taking it away from public services I suppose).

    No - while the way Johnson comported himself in office deserved and merited his removal, the performance of the Government as a whole deservedly should be open to detailed scrutiny and account.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    In answer to Jolyon:

    Seeing as there's quite a bit of chat going around the Tories choosing someone from a visible ethnic minority as their new leader, here are some quick thoughts from focus groups where I've asked Tory *voters* - not members - this question in focus groups recently...

    So could a black or brown Tory win a general election? Emphatically yes.


    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1545700462896218113

    Found it.

    This is what Jolyon said, then deleted:


    I really didn't think Maugham could go down further in my estimation but once again I underestimated him.
    Maugham is actually disgusting.
    What man goes out in a kimono with a baseball bat with the express intention of smashing a fox to death. Twice
    I don't like foxes particularly (fox shit is disgusting in the garden), but I can't even contemplate beating them to death with a baseball bat.
    To make it worse, he then gloated about his “weird Boxing Day” (of fox smashing) on Twitter

    His wife should delete his Twitter account
    Or at the very least put a lock on her lingerie draw.
    Tories (many, or at least some):

    Killing a fox with a baseball bat, quickly and economically = BAAAD
    Ditto, inefficiently at huge expense with a horde of dogs, horses and assistants, with sabs getting in the way = GLORIOUS TRADITION
    Fine with both. Also fine with people deciding for themselves what to spend their own money on.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    Thanks.
    That's pretty black and white then.
    Pity.

    It has sparked the debate about whether he has in fact resigned though
    If he hasn't, then there isn't a vacancy for him to run for.
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Has the PM actually resigned? Genuine Q…

    “It is now clearly the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister and I have agreed…the process of choosing that new leader should begin now”


    https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1545776304099827712
    https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1545771140643168261
    Im guessing this is something Old Lady Brady would have scrupulously checked Friday AM as he has no authority to start a race without something concrete id have thought?
    My assumption is that he agreed, in private, when Brady asked him if he was resigning, but that he couldn't bring himself to say the words in public.
This discussion has been closed.