The plan. Massive tax cuts and handouts tomorrow. Then to the Palace. The 1922 have knobbed it again. We won't get to Monday without him at least trying for a dissolution. He'll believe he can campaign his way out of this with roguish charm. He may not be wrong.
Yes, it is fun to speculate/predict what he is going to try to do.
He has said apparently he has “a lot to say” do your comment about massive handouts is probably spot on.
Zahawi has already suggested massive tax cuts this morning, though, and it seems to have had no effect whatsoever.
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
As far as I can tell he is effectively a fascist. I agree with Tyndall.
If I was a Fascist I would be pushing for you to be interned without trial.
Will Tories walk into voting division with Labour, Lib and SNP???
The Tories might, but will the BlueKippers?
Not enough of them to stop a No Confidence vote across the House.
Seriously, I think it is the only way now.
I expect commentators to be writing articles for tomorrow to that effect as I post.
If they want it done this week, that would seem to be the case.
I think Boris is underestimating how the snowball effect could hit him. Various previously very loyal people have quit and slammed his leadership on a personal level - the existing rebels will renew their verbal assaults, the new rebels will feel released to say everything they've ever wanted to say, they will egg each other on, and they may well start to contemplate even such a state as a House vote.
I still put that as unlikely, but just as he is now contemplating extreme actions to save his job, probably because is so angry, so too will the rebels, who now have a likely majority, be increasingly furious he is making them do this the hard way. And that could lead them to drastic measures.
Surely though that destroys the Tory party? Johnson resigns the whip with his loyalists and refuses to support a continuity Tory government?
I think it is pretty clear that some people, Boris amongst them, think they are loyal tories even as they imply they would seek to bring down any future government not led by him (there can be no other interpretation - as Leon pointed out a party with this scale of majority is not threatened into a GE it does not want)
Poor chap is probably and seriously in mourning. Cut him some slack this one night
Can we not just do a little bit of gloating please? OK, OK I promise not to mention that Boris Johnson was a traitor once, no twice, er hang on maybe more than that? How many wives, girlfriends etc., collegues stabbed in the back by the hopeless lying scumbag.
Anyway, on a more positive note, if the Conservative Party heads in the right direction I might just reward it with my membership. I am sure folk like HY will be overjoyed and will welcome me back like the prodigal son.
If you were ever outside the Tories you're not a real Tory anyway.
He still holds against me the fact that I voted for Labour in 2001, despite having voted Tory in every GE since and having been a member and activist from 2004-2016.
So, if you are Starmer, and you have witnessed the shitfest of today, what do you do? Sit and wait? Or call a VONC in the government tomorrow?
I can't see how all the Tory MPs who want the man gone can vote confidence in him. Remember that if the government loses this confidence motion the PM *has* to resign and the Queen can appoint an alternative PM.
Tempting if you are a baffled Tory wondering how on earth *that* has the brass balled gumption to try and keep going.
He is not going of his own accord is he? @HYUFD has got this 100% right.
Why should he go? He won a confidence vote a few weeks ago, and the rules say no more such votes for 12 months. Those calling for him to go are being disrespectful of the rules.
So, if you are Starmer, and you have witnessed the shitfest of today, what do you do? Sit and wait? Or call a VONC in the government tomorrow?
I can't see how all the Tory MPs who want the man gone can vote confidence in him. Remember that if the government loses this confidence motion the PM *has* to resign and the Queen can appoint an alternative PM.
Tempting if you are a baffled Tory wondering how on earth *that* has the brass balled gumption to try and keep going.
The line Cooper was pushing is that they're all tainted by association now.
I don't think he needs a confidence vote which he would inevitably lose to reinforce that.
Nadhim Zahawi is definitely not resigning, I am told.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
His name is Sunak Oh, Rishi Sunak His boss went mental So he resigned. The resulting walk-out Can't prise the dork out Please can you make Him go Away.
No10 say tonight that Boris Johnson won’t go. They deny cabinet ministers called for him to go tonight — but a number of cabinet ministers confirm that’s what happened. No10 say the PM has “called their bluff.” https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1544765904570957825
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
As far as I can tell he is effectively a fascist. I agree with Tyndall.
If I was a Fascist I would be pushing for you to be interned without trial.
Isn't that already a policy your government has brought in?
Again. David fucking lickspittle Duguid has shown more moral compass than you have. And he has none.
Nadhim Zahawi is definitely not resigning, I am told.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
Increasingly clear Boris Johnson will not go tonight. Or even tomorrow. Looks like the new 1922 committee will change the rules and there will be another confidence vote next week. Which Mr Johnson will lose. Lose badly. Then it will be over. Cue summer leadership contest. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1544764306201493507
Nadhim Zahawi is definitely not resigning, I am told.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
IQ of nations tests are factual and undeniable. Nukes are there as a last resort to defend British territory, irrespective of the merits of using them or not Argentina invaded the Falklands, British territory. Russia has presidential and parliamentary elections, it may not be a perfect democracy but it is a democracy.
I am entitled to my views as long as they are legal and will continue to make them with generally less abuse than is directed at me
No10 say tonight that Boris Johnson won’t go. They deny cabinet ministers called for him to go tonight — but a number of cabinet ministers confirm that’s what happened. No10 say the PM has “called their bluff.” https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1544765904570957825
That tweet makes no sense. If No 10 is claiming the Cabinet Ministers did not call for him to go, then No 10 is claiming there was no bluff made for the PM to call.
Ok Zahawi and co, get your resignations in please. If you’re going to call for the PM to go and he isn’t, you need to leave office.
Zahawi desperately wants to avoid being the one-day chancellor.
He won't be either way. Even if Johnson resigned tonight, the current cabinet stay in post until a new PM is elected. Osbourne hung around for a few weeks and probably would've stayed on if May had actually not been so nasty against him and sacked him.
Jessica Elgot @jessicaelgot · 8m Ally of Liz Truss says she is not cancelling her G20 trip - believes now is not the time to exit from the important international commitments. She is sticking by the PM.
He is not going of his own accord is he? @HYUFD has got this 100% right.
Why should he go? He won a confidence vote a few weeks ago, and the rules say no more such votes for 12 months. Those calling for him to go are being disrespectful of the rules.
No10 say tonight that Boris Johnson won’t go. They deny cabinet ministers called for him to go tonight — but a number of cabinet ministers confirm that’s what happened. No10 say the PM has “called their bluff.” https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1544765904570957825
That tweet makes no sense. If No 10 is claiming the Cabinet Ministers did not call for him to go, then No 10 is claiming there was no bluff made for the PM to call.
Ok Zahawi and co, get your resignations in please. If you’re going to call for the PM to go and he isn’t, you need to leave office.
Zahawi desperately wants to avoid being the one-day chancellor.
Surely it would be two-day?
Well, I was thinking if he'd resigned less than 24 hours after being appointed. But apparently he's not going to resign as part of the cabinet delegation that went to Boris earlier to get him to quit.
Ok. That is bad for Johnson. It shows this isn't over yet. And he is in any case running out of replacements.
The issue really of course is that he should have resigned the morning Oswestry fell in that needless by-election his own bungling brought about. He's been a dead man walking ever since. But he won't go unless he's unable to form a cabinet, which now starts to look a serious possibility.
So, if you are Starmer, and you have witnessed the shitfest of today, what do you do? Sit and wait? Or call a VONC in the government tomorrow?
I can't see how all the Tory MPs who want the man gone can vote confidence in him. Remember that if the government loses this confidence motion the PM *has* to resign and the Queen can appoint an alternative PM.
Tempting if you are a baffled Tory wondering how on earth *that* has the brass balled gumption to try and keep going.
Or 300+ Tories resign the whip (until this distasteful situation is over) , reconstitute themselves as a new party - maybe a ridiculous name that a political party would never have like Whiggs, and cross the floor leaving Boris, Mogg and Nads on their own on one side. Then it might strike home.
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
IQ of nations tests are factual and undeniable. Nukes are there as a last resort to defend British territory, irrespective of the merits of using them or not Argentina is British territory. Russia has presidential and parliamentary elections, it may not be a perfect democracy but it is a democracy.
I am entitled to my views as long as they are legal and will continue to make them with generally less abuse than is directed at me
It isn't abuse, it is pity. And we will rejoice heartily when you finally reject him and join civilisation.
Jason Groves @JasonGroves1 · 20m Grant Shapps told the PM he would lose another confidence vote and suggested he aim for a more 'dignified' departure. But not quitting - yet
So, if you are Starmer, and you have witnessed the shitfest of today, what do you do? Sit and wait? Or call a VONC in the government tomorrow?
I can't see how all the Tory MPs who want the man gone can vote confidence in him. Remember that if the government loses this confidence motion the PM *has* to resign and the Queen can appoint an alternative PM.
Tempting if you are a baffled Tory wondering how on earth *that* has the brass balled gumption to try and keep going.
He is presumably hamstrung by the fact that as many have noted, the Durham police are meant to opine this week.
Can I just say. This has been absolutely great. Excellent to be ahead of everyone in knowing what's going on. And what could happen. Thanks to all on here for the info, jokes, speculation and bewilderment. I suspect tomorrow may be even better!
Increasingly clear Boris Johnson will not go tonight. Or even tomorrow. Looks like the new 1922 committee will change the rules and there will be another confidence vote next week. Which Mr Johnson will lose. Lose badly. Then it will be over. Cue summer leadership contest. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1544764306201493507
How does he think that setting himself up for such a humiliation helps himself, his party or the country
Nadhim Zahawi is definitely not resigning, I am told.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
Way back in the day (but long after JRM's world view was formed) British monarchs frequently tried to appoint their own favorite choice as First Minister of the Treasury Bench, only to find out from him that sadly (or not) he could NOT form a ministry.
Let's not go giving HM any ideas. The notion that Prince Andrew trying to govern from the Lord's would be preferable even to the present calamity is questionable at best.
He is not going of his own accord is he? @HYUFD has got this 100% right.
Why should he go? He won a confidence vote a few weeks ago, and the rules say no more such votes for 12 months. Those calling for him to go are being disrespectful of the rules.
I really struggle to understand your position if I am honest.
Let's play this out hypothetically - say there are a number of further Cabinet resignations, and Boris simply cannot find sufficient numbers to serve under him. He would have lost the ability to govern. Yet your position on the sacrosanct rules of the Conservative and Unionist Party would suggest that an inability to govern would be an irrelevance?
Now, he is not quite at that stage. He has the support of most of the Cabinet still, and some number of MPs (let's call it 30-55% to be generous), but his ability to govern has certainly been impacted.
Are you actually saying you think the actual ability to govern is secondary to the rulebook of a political party? Rules you have in any case misunderstood, since they have the ability to change the rules.
Or what about if, again hypothetically, a PM did something outrageous, possibly even illegal, and every member of the party called for him to go - sorry mate the rules say you cannot remove him? Come off it.
This is like when people complain about invoking provisions within a treaty. It might be a very bad idea, but the ability to invoke them was there for a reason, it is not disrespectul to it to invoke them. Neither is it disrespectul to amend rules, when amending rules is permitted.
Ok. That is bad for Johnson. It shows this isn't over yet. And he is in any case running out of replacements.
The issue really of course is that he should have resigned the morning Oswestry fell in that needless by-election his own bungling brought about. He's been a dead man walking ever since. But he won't go unless he's unable to form a cabinet, which now starts to look a serious possibility.
Some commentator or other said earlier there are estimates that 60 MPs are left as Back Boris team. Enough for a Cabinet.
Increasingly clear Boris Johnson will not go tonight. Or even tomorrow. Looks like the new 1922 committee will change the rules and there will be another confidence vote next week. Which Mr Johnson will lose. Lose badly. Then it will be over. Cue summer leadership contest. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1544764306201493507
Can't see we get there without at least.a try for a dissolution. We just need that FPN to stick the top hat on it all.
So, if you are Starmer, and you have witnessed the shitfest of today, what do you do? Sit and wait? Or call a VONC in the government tomorrow?
I can't see how all the Tory MPs who want the man gone can vote confidence in him. Remember that if the government loses this confidence motion the PM *has* to resign and the Queen can appoint an alternative PM.
Tempting if you are a baffled Tory wondering how on earth *that* has the brass balled gumption to try and keep going.
If you are Starmer, you sit back and do nothing... and enjoy the spectacle.
Can I just say. This has been absolutely great. Excellent to be ahead of everyone in knowing what's going on. And what could happen. Thanks to all on here for the info, jokes, speculation and bewilderment. I suspect tomorrow may be even better!
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
I just get very irritated that he seems to think we are stupid enough to swallow the reams of horsesh*t he posts here as gospel truth.
Can I just say. This has been absolutely great. Excellent to be ahead of everyone in knowing what's going on. And what could happen. Thanks to all on here for the info, jokes, speculation and bewilderment. I suspect tomorrow may be even better!
He told the told the media, before he told them. Like when Malcolm Tucker was shown the TV screen announcing his resignation during the conversation where he was fired...
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m This is starting to border on the pathological. Fight? Fight for what? What do Boris and his supporters think is going to happen.
Increasingly clear Boris Johnson will not go tonight. Or even tomorrow. Looks like the new 1922 committee will change the rules and there will be another confidence vote next week. Which Mr Johnson will lose. Lose badly. Then it will be over. Cue summer leadership contest. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1544764306201493507
How does he think that setting himself up for such a humiliation helps himself, his party or the country
BoZo is claiming a personal electoral mandate he doesn't possess
Trump...
If Boris loses a VONC and leaves number 10 but then leads a march on the commons with 50,000 amped-up Brexiteers all hoping to hang Michael Gove from the London Eye then there will be a justifiable comparison
BBC just saying that Lewis HASN'T resigned? Do we know for sure?
Top bants. The non-resignation resignation.
Boris is right, the supposed cabinet rebels are a bunch of pusillanimous no-marks who would find it difficult to get a job doing the bins, had he not appointed them to…er…high office.
Schroedinger's Northern Ireland Secretary: If you put Brandon Lewis in a sealed plane with no phone signal he exists in a state of both resigned and not resigned simultaneously until the door opens and he connects to EE's network.
Jason Groves @JasonGroves1 · 20m Grant Shapps told the PM he would lose another confidence vote and suggested he aim for a more 'dignified' departure. But not quitting - yet
Increasingly clear Boris Johnson will not go tonight. Or even tomorrow. Looks like the new 1922 committee will change the rules and there will be another confidence vote next week. Which Mr Johnson will lose. Lose badly. Then it will be over. Cue summer leadership contest. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1544764306201493507
How does he think that setting himself up for such a humiliation helps himself, his party or the country
Why would the latter two concern him? We've already seen loyalists now happy for the Tories to lose because Boris might be removed, he certainly thinks no more of the party than they.
As for himself, I don't think he thinks he has definitely lost. At every stage his opponents have buckled at the last hurdle, hoping against hope he will fall on his sword for them. One area I agree with the loyalists is he should not have to - it's the job of the MPs to wield the sword.
He will already see this as humiliation. If he is going to be humiliated further, it would seem he wants them to step up and force it.
Guy from ConHome on Sky News making the point that if the Ministers who told BJ to go don't resign, they'll have the fact that they have no confidence in the PM brought up to them by the press and opposition constantly
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m This is starting to border on the pathological. Fight? Fight for what? What do Boris and his supporters think is going to happen.
His point of view would be that he's standing up for the principle that he won a fair vote very recently and shouldn't be forced out without another one.
I have ramped the early GE scenario. So lets think about how this works.
Working backwards we know that the '22 have a new committee elected on Monday. Which is very likely to say "new rules" and trigger a vote for Tuesday or Wednesday next week.
We also know the PM believes his mandate is from the people instead of from the MPs who vote confidence in him and from Her Majesty who appoints him on that basis.
Reports have it that half a dozen or so senior cabinet ministers told him to go. So add them to the other 39 to date who quit. Not everyone has to be quickly replaced and there will still be some slavish sycophants wanting a ministerial limo.
So, make Matt Vickers Secretary of State for Drinking and Parmos. Send him out to do his drunken thumbs up on the media. And tell the queen there must be a General Election called this weekend.
Why this weekend? Because my mandate from the people is under threat and our democracy demands that we put the question back to them. Some debate. But the palace cannot concede as it opens the door to an almighty political and constitutional row.
What happens if the PM is no longer a Tory candidate? And Starmer and Rayner receive FPNs and resign? Election called for no reason that is urgent or constitutional, no leader in either main party. So it won't happen. Which makes the PMs entire play a non-starter. He is - as I have said to some mocking - toast.
I think the GE plan works best for Johnson if it comes after he's forced Tory MPs to vote against him in a Commons Vote of No Confidence.
Unlike the internal Tory party vote that vote is public, so he would then remove the whip from the rebels and call an election with loyalists in place as candidates. With the whip withdrawn from enough Tory MPs there would no longer be a majority in the Commons, and so justification for a general election.
The bit I'm not sure of is the party whip bit. Fairly certain this is a government job, and so on the gift of the PM, and he can remove the party whip, even after he's lost the party leadership confidence vote. But it would mean that you could possibly have a scenario where the PM removed the Conservative whip from the MP who replaced him as leader of the Conservative party, and I thought Conservative party rules prevented MPs without the whip standing for election as Conservative candidates. So the new leader of the Conservatives could be prevented from standing as an official Conservative Party candidate. But maybe I have missed something.
The Prime Minister has a personal mandate from the people of England. It is not up to these uppity cabinet ministers to resign, and the PM should simply refuse their resignations. "No Brandon, you ARE Secretary of State whether you like it or not".
BoZo is claiming a personal electoral mandate he doesn't possess
Trump...
"Boris is exploiting vague rules to stay in power"
In some senses, no, he's not. He was appointed PM by Queenie and he remains so unless she decides otherwise or he cannot command the House.
The trouble is every PM before him as had some self respect and so when 90% of their Cabinet and MPs tell them to fuck off they think 'Oh that means I don't command the House anymore'.
Yes. I think Boris is a mendacious, slovenly, embarrassing clown. But Trump he is not. The comparisons are fatuous.
There are physical and superficial similarites, to be sure. But being stubborn and making people go through the frustrating but proper process to remove you rather than be dignified about it, is not similar in type to using legal tricks and inciting mobs to seek to remain in office after losing re-election. It just is not.
As the PM tells ministers only he can defeat Labour, is there a method in this latest bout of madness. 'Trump’s own betrayal narrative is fuelling a comeback.. Johnson will certainly have a core of ardent loyalists who say, like Thatcher, he was never defeated at the ballot box' https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1544769104288038918
He still thinks the voters love him. Has he seen a poll?
Comments
He has said apparently he has “a lot to say” do your comment about massive handouts is probably spot on.
Zahawi has already suggested massive tax cuts this morning, though, and it seems to have had no effect whatsoever.
I can't see how all the Tory MPs who want the man gone can vote confidence in him. Remember that if the government loses this confidence motion the PM *has* to resign and the Queen can appoint an alternative PM.
Tempting if you are a baffled Tory wondering how on earth *that* has the brass balled gumption to try and keep going.
His whole pitch is that they owe him eternal loyalty for winning the 2019 GE, so they can hardly forget the win was gotten after removing the PM!
I don't think he needs a confidence vote which he would inevitably lose to reinforce that.
https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1544765904570957825
Again. David fucking lickspittle Duguid has shown more moral compass than you have. And he has none.
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1544764306201493507
I am entitled to my views as long as they are legal and will continue to make them with generally less abuse than is directed at me
https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1544766301901651970
Jessica Elgot
@jessicaelgot
·
8m
Ally of Liz Truss says she is not cancelling her G20 trip - believes now is not the time to exit from the important international commitments. She is sticking by the PM.
The issue really of course is that he should have resigned the morning Oswestry fell in that needless by-election his own bungling brought about. He's been a dead man walking ever since. But he won't go unless he's unable to form a cabinet, which now starts to look a serious possibility.
It’s personal abuse.
Jason Groves
@JasonGroves1
·
20m
Grant Shapps told the PM he would lose another confidence vote and suggested he aim for a more 'dignified' departure. But not quitting - yet
Boris is exploiting vague rules to stay in power
There is an almighty difference
This has been absolutely great.
Excellent to be ahead of everyone in knowing what's going on. And what could happen.
Thanks to all on here for the info, jokes, speculation and bewilderment.
I suspect tomorrow may be even better!
Trump...
Let's play this out hypothetically - say there are a number of further Cabinet resignations, and Boris simply cannot find sufficient numbers to serve under him. He would have lost the ability to govern. Yet your position on the sacrosanct rules of the Conservative and Unionist Party would suggest that an inability to govern would be an irrelevance?
Now, he is not quite at that stage. He has the support of most of the Cabinet still, and some number of MPs (let's call it 30-55% to be generous), but his ability to govern has certainly been impacted.
Are you actually saying you think the actual ability to govern is secondary to the rulebook of a political party? Rules you have in any case misunderstood, since they have the ability to change the rules.
Or what about if, again hypothetically, a PM did something outrageous, possibly even illegal, and every member of the party called for him to go - sorry mate the rules say you cannot remove him? Come off it.
This is like when people complain about invoking provisions within a treaty. It might be a very bad idea, but the ability to invoke them was there for a reason, it is not disrespectul to it to invoke them. Neither is it disrespectul to amend rules, when amending rules is permitted.
We just need that FPN to stick the top hat on it all.
A giant Fuck You to his haters.
Get a fucking grip, lads...
Jeez, her uncle abdicated.
Thanks to OGH and Robert and TSE
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
2m
This is starting to border on the pathological. Fight? Fight for what? What do Boris and his supporters think is going to happen.
The non-resignation resignation.
Boris is right, the supposed cabinet rebels are a bunch of pusillanimous no-marks who would find it difficult to get a job doing the bins, had he not appointed them to…er…high office.
He'd be a fun interim PM
As for himself, I don't think he thinks he has definitely lost. At every stage his opponents have buckled at the last hurdle, hoping against hope he will fall on his sword for them. One area I agree with the loyalists is he should not have to - it's the job of the MPs to wield the sword.
He will already see this as humiliation. If he is going to be humiliated further, it would seem he wants them to step up and force it.
Unlike the internal Tory party vote that vote is public, so he would then remove the whip from the rebels and call an election with loyalists in place as candidates. With the whip withdrawn from enough Tory MPs there would no longer be a majority in the Commons, and so justification for a general election.
The bit I'm not sure of is the party whip bit. Fairly certain this is a government job, and so on the gift of the PM, and he can remove the party whip, even after he's lost the party leadership confidence vote. But it would mean that you could possibly have a scenario where the PM removed the Conservative whip from the MP who replaced him as leader of the Conservative party, and I thought Conservative party rules prevented MPs without the whip standing for election as Conservative candidates. So the new leader of the Conservatives could be prevented from standing as an official Conservative Party candidate. But maybe I have missed something.
In some senses, no, he's not. He was appointed PM by Queenie and he remains so unless she decides otherwise or he cannot command the House.
The trouble is every PM before him as had some self respect and so when 90% of their Cabinet and MPs tell them to fuck off they think 'Oh that means I don't command the House anymore'.
But not this clown.
He really, really thinks something will turn up.
'Trump’s own betrayal narrative is fuelling a comeback..
Johnson will certainly have a core of ardent loyalists who say, like Thatcher, he was never defeated at the ballot box'
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1544769104288038918
He still thinks the voters love him. Has he seen a poll?
Today it seems more like those shite plastic knives you get in terrible cafes that don't cut through anything except perhaps jelly.
AND also think you should give BoJo bit more time before you come to final judgement.
After all, IIRC shortly after Election Day 2020, PB's leading theologian was proclaiming Mike Pence THE inevitable GOP nominee.
Of course that was BEFORE old 45 started calling for his fellow Putinists to hang his running mate from the nearest lamp-post.