In a way, this is a coup. Because Johnson fairly won a vote a few weeks ago and the rules say there can't be another vote for 12 months, but the losers of that vote have simply refused to accept it.
Yes but they pulled the same trick to get rid of Theresa May which is how Boris became Prime Minister in the first place.
Mrs May resigned having lost over 1000 seats in the 2019 local elections, lost the party its majority at the 2017 general election and with polls putting the party on about 20%.
After Mrs May won her VONC in December 2018 MPs also rightly showed some loyalty and did not challenge her again the month after as they are now trying to change the rules to assassinate Boris.
Mrs May was treated better by her MPs than Boris is being treated by his MPs now and the parliamentary party didn't owe their seats to Mrs May as much of the parliamentary party owe their seats to Boris after he won the big majority in 2019 she failed to get in 2017
You are backing your man to the end then?
Figures.
Even David Duguid has shown more moral fibre than you. David Duguid.
1) the joy of watching your local Tory Candidate try and campaign with Boris as leader 2) the betting opportunities as whole areas of the South turn Orange 3) watching Bozo's face as the Tories lose their majority and he loses his seat...
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, treasonous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
On balance, and I do say this after some minutes consideration, I think I will enjoy your bitter tears of impotence almost as much as I enjoy seeing Johnson dragged from the building.
If it wasn't for Johnson you would never have got the majority for your precious Brexit
Well that is rubbish. Moreover as I have said before. I would have sacrificed Brexit rather than have voted for a man so bereft of morals, standards or values. That is why, even at the point at which we may have lost Brexit in 2019, I would not vote for him. There are some basic things that matter more than any of this politics and it is a great shame you don't understand that.
Which leader was it on the Leave side that you were following then? Farage?
It's noteworthy from a betting position that estranged Conservatives like @Scott_xP and @Nigel_Foremain are happy to consider voting Conservative again with a sensible leader.
Yes, they will likely be disappointed on Brexit but it suggests the conservatives are far from "finished" and there is a relatively quick way back from them if they return to realism, pragmatism and good governance.
It is the beginning of the end of the party's period in power and perhaps the start of a new Tory civil war, exactly as Thatcher's removal brought about
In most democracies no one party has a monopoly on power - indeed, it's often considered unhealthy when that is the case. The argument about Japan, for example, is whether the extended period of LDP rule has truly been beneficial or whether the country has stagnated.
That's Japan, though - in the British system, the periodic change of power between parties and has been regarded as an integral part of the process. The Conservatives have led the Government for 12 years - previously Labour led for 13. It may be the intervals between changes will revert to shorter timeframes in the later 2020s and 2030s - I don't know and neither do you.
Can you not accept a constructive period of Opposition might allow the Party to re-group, re-think and re-invigorate the Conservative message?
To be honest the party deserves a period in opposition after this
Your most sensible EVER post!
Yes but he thinks that because people are resigning. Not because Boris is refusing to!
Jason Groves @JasonGroves1 Boris Johnson has told Cabinet ministers he will not quit, arguing it would cause 'chaos' and see the Conservatives fall to 'almost certain' defeat at the next election
If I go there will be trouble. If I stay there will be double...
Don't. Don't you want me? You know I can't believe it when I hear that you won't see me Don't. Don't you want me? You know I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me
I am the one and only, nobody I'd rather be. I am the one and only, you can't take that away from me!
Are we happy are we scared? Are we shouting never heard? Are we running, running brave? Are we fighting, making waves?
It is the beginning of the end of the party's period in power and perhaps the start of a new Tory civil war, exactly as Thatcher's removal brought about
In most democracies no one party has a monopoly on power - indeed, it's often considered unhealthy when that is the case. The argument about Japan, for example, is whether the extended period of LDP rule has truly been beneficial or whether the country has stagnated.
That's Japan, though - in the British system, the periodic change of power between parties and has been regarded as an integral part of the process. The Conservatives have led the Government for 12 years - previously Labour led for 13. It may be the intervals between changes will revert to shorter timeframes in the later 2020s and 2030s - I don't know and neither do you.
Can you not accept a constructive period of Opposition might allow the Party to re-group, re-think and re-invigorate the Conservative message?
To be honest the party deserves a period in opposition after this
So there are circumstances you would not support the party to win an election, very good to know. Surprised that circumstance was 'removing a leader, as they have done many many times before', but still good to know the line.
It is the beginning of the end of the party's period in power and perhaps the start of a new Tory civil war, exactly as Thatcher's removal brought about
In most democracies no one party has a monopoly on power - indeed, it's often considered unhealthy when that is the case. The argument about Japan, for example, is whether the extended period of LDP rule has truly been beneficial or whether the country has stagnated.
That's Japan, though - in the British system, the periodic change of power between parties and has been regarded as an integral part of the process. The Conservatives have led the Government for 12 years - previously Labour led for 13. It may be the intervals between changes will revert to shorter timeframes in the later 2020s and 2030s - I don't know and neither do you.
Can you not accept a constructive period of Opposition might allow the Party to re-group, re-think and re-invigorate the Conservative message?
To be honest the party deserves a period in opposition after this
Hopefully a full reset. Purge the party of extremists like yourself
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Nope, the Conhome surveys this week showed traitors like Hunt or Sunak would be trounced in the membership vote
Jason Groves @JasonGroves1 Boris Johnson has told Cabinet ministers he will not quit, arguing it would cause 'chaos' and see the Conservatives fall to 'almost certain' defeat at the next election
If I go there will be trouble. If I stay there will be double...
Don't. Don't you want me? You know I can't believe it when I hear that you won't see me Don't. Don't you want me? You know I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me
I am the one and only, nobody I'd rather be. I am the one and only, you can't take that away from me!
Those who feel the breath of sadness Sit down next to me Those who find they're touched by madness Sit down next to me Those who find themselves ridiculous Sit down next to me
In a way, this is a coup. Because Johnson fairly won a vote a few weeks ago and the rules say there can't be another vote for 12 months, but the losers of that vote have simply refused to accept it.
Yes but they pulled the same trick to get rid of Theresa May which is how Boris became Prime Minister in the first place.
Mrs May resigned having lost over 1000 seats in the 2019 local elections, lost the party its majority at the 2017 general election and with polls putting the party on about 20%.
After Mrs May won her VONC in December 2018 MPs also rightly showed some loyalty and did not challenge her again the month after as they are now trying to change the rules to assassinate Boris.
Mrs May was treated better by her MPs than Boris is being treated by his MPs now and the parliamentary party didn't owe their seats to Mrs May as much of the parliamentary party owe their seats to Boris after he won the big majority in 2019 she failed to get in 2017
Theresa May resigned after receiving an ultimatum that the 1922 Committee would change its rules; cf Boris next week (perhaps).
Remember kids, there is no constitutional rule that the leader of the party is the PM iirc.
A constitutional rule is whatever Jacob Rees-Mogg says it is. It is a very conservative thing to do to ignore precendent and history and simply declare that PMs now have personal mandates that overrule the internal rules of a political party, and the principle of someone needing confidence of the House of Commons.
We are heading to full blown constitutional crisis unless the whole House votes no confidence.
Will Tories walk into voting division with Labour, Lib and SNP???
Why not? It won't result in a GE so they are safe - safer in fact than if Johnson says in power with his threats of a GE if they oust him.
A VoNC is held and passed.
Johnson and his Government at that point have to resign.
Parliament then has to decide if there is a stable majority which can support a new Government - with an 80 odd seat majority for the Tories that is probably going to happen.
The Tories choose a new Leader who becomes PM and then try and salvage what they can before an election in 2 years. Which they will probably lose but that is another story.
Jason Groves @JasonGroves1 Boris Johnson has told Cabinet ministers he will not quit, arguing it would cause 'chaos' and see the Conservatives fall to 'almost certain' defeat at the next election
If I go there will be trouble. If I stay there will be double...
Don't. Don't you want me? You know I can't believe it when I hear that you won't see me Don't. Don't you want me? You know I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me
I am the one and only, nobody I'd rather be. I am the one and only, you can't take that away from me!
Are we happy are we scared? Are we shouting never heard? Are we running, running brave? Are we fighting, making waves?
I'm sure Johnson has seen a red box or two in his time.
Still, it'd be funny seeing all these resigning Tories voting to prop up the government that Boris leads, which Boris would then take as a vote of confidence in him, even though they were all going to vote against him personally.
The Tory party tearing themselves apart in public. What's not to like. LOL.
You can see BJ's point of view though. He won a confidence vote just a few weeks ago.
To be honest, he does have a point. Where were the dissenters a few weeks ago? It just proves that Tories are spineless turncoats. Not to be trusted - any of them!
His name is Sunak Oh, Rishi Sunak His boss went mental So he resigned. The resulting walk-out Can't prise the dork out Please can you make Him go Away.
Jason Groves @JasonGroves1 Boris Johnson has told Cabinet ministers he will not quit, arguing it would cause 'chaos' and see the Conservatives fall to 'almost certain' defeat at the next election
If I go there will be trouble. If I stay there will be double...
Don't. Don't you want me? You know I can't believe it when I hear that you won't see me Don't. Don't you want me? You know I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me
I am the one and only, nobody I'd rather be. I am the one and only, you can't take that away from me!
Are we happy are we scared? Are we shouting never heard? Are we running, running brave? Are we fighting, making waves?
I'm sure Johnson has seen a red box or two in his time.
LOVE that song
From the very very young to the very very old Everybody now say aye From the centre of the earth to the corners of the globe Everyone of you say aye!!!
They can't. There is no internal mechanism to remove a sitting Prime Minister if he's in the one year 'get out of jail free' period. Which he is.
The Conservatives, as much as Labour in 2016, have now realised the flaws in their rules. Don't write rules if you don't want to honour them.
Like I said last night, the only options now are a rule change (which looks to take weeks.... beyond the summer recess?) or literally begging Starmer and the Labour party to get involved and VoNC in Parliament.
The line is going to be that he’s got a *personal* mandate from the British people that the Tory Party cannot take away. I start doubt even the 1922 can shift him at this point and it will take a GE. Not what I thought this morning.
I don't see that. The largest party choose their leader and if that leader can command a majority in parliament that person becomes PM Rubber stamped by her Maj
In a way, this is a coup. Because Johnson fairly won a vote a few weeks ago and the rules say there can't be another vote for 12 months, but the losers of that vote have simply refused to accept it.
Yes but they pulled the same trick to get rid of Theresa May which is how Boris became Prime Minister in the first place.
Mrs May resigned having lost over 1000 seats in the 2019 local elections, lost the party its majority at the 2017 general election and with polls putting the party on about 20%.
After Mrs May won her VONC in December 2018 MPs also rightly showed some loyalty and did not challenge her again the month after as they are now trying to change the rules to assassinate Boris.
Mrs May was treated better by her MPs than Boris is being treated by his MPs now and the parliamentary party didn't owe their seats to Mrs May as much of the parliamentary party owe their seats to Boris after he won the big majority in 2019 she failed to get in 2017
Actually that might not be true. As per an MP tonight apparently Graham Brady met her with a pile of letters from MPs and challenged her to go or for them to open them. She went. I have never heard that story before.
It's noteworthy from a betting position that estranged Conservatives like @Scott_xP and @Nigel_Foremain are happy to consider voting Conservative again with a sensible leader.
Yes, they will likely be disappointed on Brexit but it suggests the conservatives are far from "finished" and there is a relatively quick way back from them if they return to realism, pragmatism and good governance.
Some of Boris's attempts to argue his case are a little contradictory in my opinion. On the one hand it is pointed out the Tory position is not massively bad as compared to historic mid terms, which is true to a degree, but he doesn't credit any of that to the party, and believes they have no chance whatsoever to recover without him. Despite just noting that they have managed it before, so it is at least possible they could under someone else.
Psephological revisionism here. Johnson does get credit for the 2019 result, but hugely important were: (1) Brexit (2) Corbyn and (3) Labour becoming disconnected from a lot of its traditional base. The polls, which were pretty accurate in 2019, didn’t give him strong numbers
It's noteworthy from a betting position that estranged Conservatives like @Scott_xP and @Nigel_Foremain are happy to consider voting Conservative again with a sensible leader.
Yes, they will likely be disappointed on Brexit but it suggests the conservatives are far from "finished" and there is a relatively quick way back from them if they return to realism, pragmatism and good governance.
At the moment they look a disorganised leaderless hopeless rabble and it's hard to see how any kind of unity can be brought from this debacle.
Those still in the ditch with the Prime Minister know their careers end with his - those who have already jumped know they face a life in the wilderness if Johnson survives and by some miracle retains power.
The fault line isn't ideological as it was with Labour in the late 70s/early 80s but personal. You are either with Johnson or against him (pace Trump in the GOP).
The other problem is all the real problems will still be there if/when Boris Johnson quits - those cheering the fall in oil prices might ask themselves if this is in fact the first indications of a significant global slowdown and possible recession?
In a way, this is a coup. Because Johnson fairly won a vote a few weeks ago and the rules say there can't be another vote for 12 months, but the losers of that vote have simply refused to accept it.
Yes but they pulled the same trick to get rid of Theresa May which is how Boris became Prime Minister in the first place.
Mrs May resigned having lost over 1000 seats in the 2019 local elections, lost the party its majority at the 2017 general election and with polls putting the party on about 20%.
After Mrs May won her VONC in December 2018 MPs also rightly showed some loyalty and did not challenge her again the month after as they are now trying to change the rules to assassinate Boris.
Mrs May was treated better by her MPs than Boris is being treated by his MPs now and the parliamentary party didn't owe their seats to Mrs May as much of the parliamentary party owe their seats to Boris after he won the big majority in 2019 she failed to get in 2017
Theresa May resigned after receiving an ultimatum that the 1922 Committee would change its rules; cf Boris next week (perhaps).
After losing 1000 seats at the local elections and getting 9% in the European elections and 6 months after the 2018 VONC not just the month after
There must now be some very worried heads in the Tory Party worrying that Boris isn’t just going to hole this government below the waterline - he could actually be on the verge of destroying the Conservative Party itself.
Think about it: if he is not willing to obey the constitutional niceties what is to say he won’t flounce, found the Boris Party and try and collapse the government and force a GE, splitting the vote on the right? If he is that desperate to stay in office and that delusional about his personal popularity, surely if the Tories try to remove him as leader that is something he could honestly try to do?
I thought the man was mendacious but he is now displaying Trumpian levels of Mad King-ness.
MikeL - BBC: Boris has just been having his weekly audience with the Queen (by phone)!!!
SSI - Surely someone in HM's (actual) household monitored this call. As under circumstances, elder abuse can NOT be ruled out.
"Your Majesty, I hate to bother you with my problems. But truth is, I'm in an awful fix because mean people are out to get me. Same kind that say such nasty things about Prince Andrew. You know you can count on me, Ma'am, I'm your biggest fan since Sir Winston! All I need is a little more time, say until New Years 2032? Plus a small amount to tide the Johnson household over these tough times, to help Carrie with redecorating the flat, and keep Dilyn's doggie bowl nice and full. About 100 million guineas aught to cover it, at least for starters. Pretty please, Your Majesty?"
Extraordinary to consider this is the second time in a row that a sitting PM has won a confidence vote and then been forced out of office a short time later without such a vote. Also, both PMs were indirectly elected at previous general elections, albeit narrowly in the case of Theresa May.
I understand tentative discussions are underway among members of Boris Johnson’s innermost circle about when they should tell him his premiership is at an end. Acting carefully bc it will be seen as a “ravens leaving the tower” moment https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
Pippa Crerar @PippaCrerar · 1m Tory MPs aghast that Boris Johnson has told his Cabinet he will "fight on". But any observer of the PM knows that he was always going to do exactly that.
It is the beginning of the end of the party's period in power and perhaps the start of a new Tory civil war, exactly as Thatcher's removal brought about
In most democracies no one party has a monopoly on power - indeed, it's often considered unhealthy when that is the case. The argument about Japan, for example, is whether the extended period of LDP rule has truly been beneficial or whether the country has stagnated.
That's Japan, though - in the British system, the periodic change of power between parties and has been regarded as an integral part of the process. The Conservatives have led the Government for 12 years - previously Labour led for 13. It may be the intervals between changes will revert to shorter timeframes in the later 2020s and 2030s - I don't know and neither do you.
Can you not accept a constructive period of Opposition might allow the Party to re-group, re-think and re-invigorate the Conservative message?
To be honest the party deserves a period in opposition after this
Hopefully a full reset. Purge the party of extremists like yourself
If you think the party is now going to shift to closer alignment with the EU and a PM Hunt or Sunak, you are deluded
BlowJo carrying on is the Best News. Now we get to watch him totally destroy the Conservative Party as he refuses to play ball.
A significant proportion of the payroll vote quit? Including a number of senior cabinet roles? Just replace them. With anyone who will take the jobs whether they be MPs or not.
Then when Brady announces a contest, say it has no legitimacy. Then when you lose the vote, say its up to the people to decide and demand an election.
If you recall the minority Johnson government also banged he dispatch box, describing how awful it was and challenged its opponents to force an election.
And he won an 80-seat majority. In his head he thinks this will work, and maybe the next majority will be 160.
Its mad. But so is he.
This scenario certainly feels possible. It's a dividing line between whether Johnson is a Populist, as some have said all along, with complete disdain for normal democratic conventions.
The question then becomes, how much of the party machinery sticks with him? How many of the donors? What Russian money might be funnelled in to cause maximum disruption?
Maybe someone will convince him to step back from the brink. But who?
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, treasonous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
On balance, and I do say this after some minutes consideration, I think I will enjoy your bitter tears of impotence almost as much as I enjoy seeing Johnson dragged from the building.
If it wasn't for Johnson you would never have got the majority for your precious Brexit
Well that is rubbish. Moreover as I have said before. I would have sacrificed Brexit rather than have voted for a man so bereft of morals, standards or values. That is why, even at the point at which we may have lost Brexit in 2019, I would not vote for him. There are some basic things that matter more than any of this politics and it is a great shame you don't understand that.
Which leader was it on the Leave side that you were following then? Farage?
Nope. I don't do leaders at all. I have campaigned for Brexit since the 1980s. I don't need a politician telling me how or why I should vote. Same with parties. I would say they are a necessary evil but I don't actually think they are even necessary.
I understand tentative discussions are underway among members of Boris Johnson’s innermost circle about when they should tell him his premiership is at an end. Acting carefully bc it will be seen as a “ravens leaving the tower” moment https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
I understand tentative discussions are underway among members of Boris Johnson’s innermost circle about when they should tell him his premiership is at an end. Acting carefully bc it will be seen as a “ravens leaving the tower” moment https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
Great, another bunch of people Boris can ignore and continue trying to soldier on without.
Will Tories walk into voting division with Labour, Lib and SNP???
The Tories might, but will the BlueKippers?
Not enough of them to stop a No Confidence vote across the House.
Seriously, I think it is the only way now.
I expect commentators to be writing articles for tomorrow to that effect as I post.
If they want it done this week, that would seem to be the case.
I think Boris is underestimating how the snowball effect could hit him. Various previously very loyal people have quit and slammed his leadership on a personal level - the existing rebels will renew their verbal assaults, the new rebels will feel released to say everything they've ever wanted to say, they will egg each other on, and they may well start to contemplate even such a state as a House vote.
I still put that as unlikely, but just as he is now contemplating extreme actions to save his job, probably because is so angry, so too will the rebels, who now have a likely majority, be increasingly furious he is making them do this the hard way. And that could lead them to drastic measures.
I have ramped the early GE scenario. So lets think about how this works.
Working backwards we know that the '22 have a new committee elected on Monday. Which is very likely to say "new rules" and trigger a vote for Tuesday or Wednesday next week.
We also know the PM believes his mandate is from the people instead of from the MPs who vote confidence in him and from Her Majesty who appoints him on that basis.
Reports have it that half a dozen or so senior cabinet ministers told him to go. So add them to the other 39 to date who quit. Not everyone has to be quickly replaced and there will still be some slavish sycophants wanting a ministerial limo.
So, make Matt Vickers Secretary of State for Drinking and Parmos. Send him out to do his drunken thumbs up on the media. And tell the queen there must be a General Election called this weekend.
Why this weekend? Because my mandate from the people is under threat and our democracy demands that we put the question back to them. Some debate. But the palace cannot concede as it opens the door to an almighty political and constitutional row.
What happens if the PM is no longer a Tory candidate? And Starmer and Rayner receive FPNs and resign? Election called for no reason that is urgent or constitutional, no leader in either main party. So it won't happen. Which makes the PMs entire play a non-starter. He is - as I have said to some mocking - toast.
This is so bad that I think various newspapers will be pitching for articles from Vernon Bogdanor tonight .
Political scientist Vernon Bogdanor says Boris Johnson's theory about having "a personal mandate from voters", is a misunderstanding of the constitution.
Personally I think the Trump analogies are overblown. Johnson is within his rights to hold on for an actual VONC. It’s not what I’d do, but it’s a legitimate option.
I also don’t think it irreparably damages the Tory Party for him to do so.
In a way, this is a coup. Because Johnson fairly won a vote a few weeks ago and the rules say there can't be another vote for 12 months, but the losers of that vote have simply refused to accept it.
Yes but they pulled the same trick to get rid of Theresa May which is how Boris became Prime Minister in the first place.
Mrs May resigned having lost over 1000 seats in the 2019 local elections, lost the party its majority at the 2017 general election and with polls putting the party on about 20%.
After Mrs May won her VONC in December 2018 MPs also rightly showed some loyalty and did not challenge her again the month after as they are now trying to change the rules to assassinate Boris.
Mrs May was treated better by her MPs than Boris is being treated by his MPs now and the parliamentary party didn't owe their seats to Mrs May as much of the parliamentary party owe their seats to Boris after he won the big majority in 2019 she failed to get in 2017
Theresa May resigned after receiving an ultimatum that the 1922 Committee would change its rules; cf Boris next week (perhaps).
After losing 1000 seats at the local elections and getting 9% in the European elections and 6 months after the 2018 VONC not just the month after
Is it only electoral losses that would make a renewed challenge not treasonous in your eyes? Whilst you presumably feel the Pincher stuff was not the final straw that would justify Boris going, there must be some circumstances you would consider a renewed challenge justified, if a PM was caught committing a crime or something?
BlowJo carrying on is the Best News. Now we get to watch him totally destroy the Conservative Party as he refuses to play ball.
A significant proportion of the payroll vote quit? Including a number of senior cabinet roles? Just replace them. With anyone who will take the jobs whether they be MPs or not.
Then when Brady announces a contest, say it has no legitimacy. Then when you lose the vote, say its up to the people to decide and demand an election.
If you recall the minority Johnson government also banged he dispatch box, describing how awful it was and challenged its opponents to force an election.
And he won an 80-seat majority. In his head he thinks this will work, and maybe the next majority will be 160.
Its mad. But so is he.
This scenario certainly feels possible. It's a dividing line between whether Johnson is a Populist, as some have said all along, with complete disdain for normal democratic conventions.
The question then becomes, how much of the party machinery sticks with him? How many of the donors? What Russian money might be funnelled in to cause maximum disruption?
Maybe someone will convince him to step back from the brink. But who?
I certainly think the Brady VONC he will dismiss.
iirc the PM is not necessarily the leader of the party. He will take that obscure constitutional nugget and run with it.
FULL VONC across the whole House tomorrow for the good of the country.
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
The plan. Massive tax cuts and handouts tomorrow. Then to the Palace. The 1922 have knobbed it again. We won't get to Monday without him at least trying for a dissolution. He'll believe he can campaign his way out of this with roguish charm. He may not be wrong.
Sky reporting Boris will stay, is not going to resign.
Utterly laughable.
Let's all regroup on Tuesday with fresh popcorn and try again.
Seriously, the only way they get him out is a VONC of the FULL House with Tories in the lobby with Opposition at which point he loses command of the House and Queenie sacks him. At that point security will escort him from the Crown Property and it is over.
Starmer should demand a price for supporting the VoNC. The Conservatives are turning what should be an internal Conservative matter only into a full blown Parliamentary matter.
Nadhim Zahawi is definitely not resigning, I am told.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
Way back in the day (but long after JRM's world view was formed) British monarchs frequently tried to appoint their own favorite choice as First Minister of the Treasury Bench, only to find out from him that sadly (or not) he could NOT form a ministry. Either because it could NOT command a majority of the House of Commons (generally with no formal vote taken to confirm this) OR because the intended Prime Minister could NOT recruit sufficient others to form a ministry under his leadership.
Ok Zahawi and co, get your resignations in please. If you’re going to call for the PM to go and he isn’t, you need to leave office.
Zahawi desperately wants to avoid being the one-day chancellor.
He will presumably be Chancellor now until the replacement is in place. At which point a post office branch office might be a bit if an ask. Especially if it’s Sunak or the Saj.
Ok Zahawi and co, get your resignations in please. If you’re going to call for the PM to go and he isn’t, you need to leave office.
Zahawi desperately wants to avoid being the one-day chancellor.
He has until 21:50 when his appointment was announced yesterday.
So long, Mom, I'm off to drop the bomb So don't wait up for me. Though I may roam I'll come back to my home although it may be A pile of debris Remember Mommie, I'm off to kill a Johnnie So slice me some salami, and try to smile somehow. I'll look for you when I've quit the Cabinet (checks watch) An hour and a half from now!
This is so bad that I think various newspapers will be pitching for articles from Vernon Bogdanor tonight .
Political scientist Vernon Bogdanor says Boris Johnson's theory about having "a personal mandate from voters", is a misunderstanding of the constitution.
I understand tentative discussions are underway among members of Boris Johnson’s innermost circle about when they should tell him his premiership is at an end. Acting carefully bc it will be seen as a “ravens leaving the tower” moment https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
Alternatively, can't we just put him in the Tower WITH the ravens?
The Tory party tearing themselves apart in public. What's not to like. LOL.
You can see BJ's point of view though. He won a confidence vote just a few weeks ago.
Nope. Politics is a continuous affair, the idea he would think he was safe no matter how he might cock up is insanity. I refuse to believe he would feel personally affronted by a change in circumstances leading to him being challenged again - he did the same damn thing, so he knows winning such a vote is no guarantee.
Will Tories walk into voting division with Labour, Lib and SNP???
The Tories might, but will the BlueKippers?
Not enough of them to stop a No Confidence vote across the House.
Seriously, I think it is the only way now.
I expect commentators to be writing articles for tomorrow to that effect as I post.
If they want it done this week, that would seem to be the case.
I think Boris is underestimating how the snowball effect could hit him. Various previously very loyal people have quit and slammed his leadership on a personal level - the existing rebels will renew their verbal assaults, the new rebels will feel released to say everything they've ever wanted to say, they will egg each other on, and they may well start to contemplate even such a state as a House vote.
I still put that as unlikely, but just as he is now contemplating extreme actions to save his job, probably because is so angry, so too will the rebels, who now have a likely majority, be increasingly furious he is making them do this the hard way. And that could lead them to drastic measures.
Surely though that destroys the Tory party? Johnson resigns the whip with his loyalists and refuses to support a continuity Tory government?
In a way, this is a coup. Because Johnson fairly won a vote a few weeks ago and the rules say there can't be another vote for 12 months, but the losers of that vote have simply refused to accept it.
Yes but they pulled the same trick to get rid of Theresa May which is how Boris became Prime Minister in the first place.
Mrs May resigned having lost over 1000 seats in the 2019 local elections, lost the party its majority at the 2017 general election and with polls putting the party on about 20%.
After Mrs May won her VONC in December 2018 MPs also rightly showed some loyalty and did not challenge her again the month after as they are now trying to change the rules to assassinate Boris.
Mrs May was treated better by her MPs than Boris is being treated by his MPs now and the parliamentary party didn't owe their seats to Mrs May as much of the parliamentary party owe their seats to Boris after he won the big majority in 2019 she failed to get in 2017
Theresa May resigned after receiving an ultimatum that the 1922 Committee would change its rules; cf Boris next week (perhaps).
After losing 1000 seats at the local elections and getting 9% in the European elections and 6 months after the 2018 VONC not just the month after
Is it only electoral losses that would make a renewed challenge not treasonous in your eyes? Whilst you presumably feel the Pincher stuff was not the final straw that would justify Boris going, there must be some circumstances you would consider a renewed challenge justified, if a PM was caught committing a crime or something?
Right on cue, some brave individual on the BBC misunderstands a political leader is an annointed king. An unnamed MP close to Boris Johnson tonight described some of his critics as “treacherous”.
They are, a load of wet, treacherous, pygmies.
Exactly the same type of MPs who toppled Thatcher, another great election winner, leading to years of bitter division in the party and ultimately over a decade in opposition
Given that this seems to describe the almost the entire parliamentary party, are we to assume you have now transferred your loyalty to Il Duce?
It doesn't, just the traitors. The membership will ensure the traitors do not get rewarded if Boris is removed by ensuring they do not get the leadership
Hopefully the membership is not quite as loony as you. Even within the modern “Conservative” party, I suspect you are an outlier.
Yes, he's eccentric, dogmatic and pedantic and always has to have the last word but we know he will transfer his loyalty 100% the instant a new Conservative leader and PM takes office, so why badger him?
Because he holds views which are deeply offensive - more I would suggest than almost anyone else on here - and he invites scorn with his statements of absolute certainty which almost inevitably turn out to be rubbish. It is not bullying to point out his idiocy just as others point out mine and yours.
I take issue with that. I disagree with him about many things but his views are not offensive. I don't think the views of anyone on here are 'offensive', not even Sandy Rentool's cheerful wish for the elimination of all humanity. You may be offended by his views, but that is different (though I don'tsee why you would be, he may be not be the board's cheeriest poster but he is seldom rude despite a lot of provocation). And more often than not his views about what goes on within the Conservative Party are pretty well informed.
Well I have to say if you don't think that supporting the Spanish police beating up grannies because the want to vote and advocating doing the same thing to citizens in this country is offensive then I think your moral compass is somewhat skewed.
His attitude of 'party before country' is also offensive.
As I have said before I would not see him leave; he has an absolute right to say what he wants. But I and others have an absolute right to call him out for it and treat both him and his views with the disdain they deserve.
These views are not "offensive" though. They are "wrong". Or, more accurately, "I disagree with them".
No. Supporting the beating of people for wanting to vote and advocating it for our country is offensive. Far more offensive than the rude words you seem to object to on here.
I can see both sides of this argument but I must admit I do personally find some of his post offensive, although I might be considered a bit of a wimp. To name a few: His views on the average intelligence of Africans, willingness to nuke Argentina, believing Russia is a democracy. The list goes on.
As far as I can tell he is effectively a fascist. I agree with Tyndall.
I understand tentative discussions are underway among members of Boris Johnson’s innermost circle about when they should tell him his premiership is at an end. Acting carefully bc it will be seen as a “ravens leaving the tower” moment https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
Alternatively, can't we just put him in the Tower WITH the ravens?
Nadhim Zahawi is definitely not resigning, I am told.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
PM believes he has more cabinet support than people think. Has made clear a summer of inertia and a leadership contest is a bad idea. BUT concerned allies fear his defiant tone will prompt MORE Cabinet resignations, they worry this isn’t a sustainable position. https://twitter.com/kateemccann/status/1544757859132604421
I understand tentative discussions are underway among members of Boris Johnson’s innermost circle about when they should tell him his premiership is at an end. Acting carefully bc it will be seen as a “ravens leaving the tower” moment https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
Great, another bunch of people Boris can ignore and continue trying to soldier on without.
Yep.
Most of them were appointed the last time his leadership was on the very edge, which was like two weeks ago or whatever, so a new set can be found. Nad probably has a group of mates who can step up.
See you Hari and thanks fucking very much etc etc.
The line is going to be that he’s got a *personal* mandate from the British people that the Tory Party cannot take away. I start doubt even the 1922 can shift him at this point and it will take a GE. Not what I thought this morning.
I don't see that. The largest party choose their leader and if that leader can command a majority in parliament that person becomes PM Rubber stamped by her Maj
That’s the constitution. BJ is going to try and change that convention
It's noteworthy from a betting position that estranged Conservatives like @Scott_xP and @Nigel_Foremain are happy to consider voting Conservative again with a sensible leader.
Yes, they will likely be disappointed on Brexit but it suggests the conservatives are far from "finished" and there is a relatively quick way back from them if they return to realism, pragmatism and good governance.
Some of Boris's attempts to argue his case are a little contradictory in my opinion. On the one hand it is pointed out the Tory position is not massively bad as compared to historic mid terms, which is true to a degree, but he doesn't credit any of that to the party, and believes they have no chance whatsoever to recover without him. Despite just noting that they have managed it before, so it is at least possible they could under someone else.
Psephological revisionism here. Johnson does get credit for the 2019 result, but hugely important were: (1) Brexit (2) Corbyn and (3) Labour becoming disconnected from a lot of its traditional base. The polls, which were pretty accurate in 2019, didn’t give him strong numbers
Comments
Figures.
Even David Duguid has shown more moral fibre than you. David Duguid.
Just think of
1) the joy of watching your local Tory Candidate try and campaign with Boris as leader
2) the betting opportunities as whole areas of the South turn Orange
3) watching Bozo's face as the Tories lose their majority and he loses his seat...
Yes, they will likely be disappointed on Brexit but it suggests the conservatives are far from "finished" and there is a relatively quick way back from them if they return to realism, pragmatism and good governance.
So I called it wrong it seems that its happening today. Seems like the 22 next week is the end.
Are we shouting never heard?
Are we running, running brave?
Are we fighting, making waves?
On that metric, Boris is about the best
Sit down next to me
Those who find they're touched by madness
Sit down next to me
Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me
I think you're worried this is some sort of Remainer plot.
It isn't.
A VoNC is held and passed.
Johnson and his Government at that point have to resign.
Parliament then has to decide if there is a stable majority which can support a new Government - with an 80 odd seat majority for the Tories that is probably going to happen.
The Tories choose a new Leader who becomes PM and then try and salvage what they can before an election in 2 years. Which they will probably lose but that is another story.
Patel, Gove, Kwarteng, Donelan, Shapps and Malthouse, according to reports.
Oh, Rishi Sunak
His boss went mental
So he resigned.
The resulting walk-out
Can't prise the dork out
Please can you make
Him go
Away.
From the very very young to the very very old
Everybody now say aye
From the centre of the earth to the corners of the globe
Everyone of you say aye!!!
The Conservatives, as much as Labour in 2016, have now realised the flaws in their rules.
Don't write rules if you don't want to honour them.
Like I said last night, the only options now are a rule change (which looks to take weeks.... beyond the summer recess?) or literally begging Starmer and the Labour party to get involved and VoNC in Parliament.
Seriously, I think it is the only way now.
I expect commentators to be writing articles for tomorrow to that effect as I post.
Matt Singh often has sensible takes I find.
IMO the Conservatives' situation is still potentially salvageable, largely because Labour isn't doing all that well itself. These Tory numbers are bad but they're not *that* bad...
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1544659461926797317?cxt=HHwWioC-8Zfm3e8qAAAA
Psephological revisionism here. Johnson does get credit for the 2019 result, but hugely important were: (1) Brexit (2) Corbyn and (3) Labour becoming disconnected from a lot of its traditional base. The polls, which were pretty accurate in 2019, didn’t give him strong numbers
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1544745368428359680?cxt=HHwWgMDRmc3uhPAqAAAA
Those still in the ditch with the Prime Minister know their careers end with his - those who have already jumped know they face a life in the wilderness if Johnson survives and by some miracle retains power.
The fault line isn't ideological as it was with Labour in the late 70s/early 80s but personal. You are either with Johnson or against him (pace Trump in the GOP).
The other problem is all the real problems will still be there if/when Boris Johnson quits - those cheering the fall in oil prices might ask themselves if this is in fact the first indications of a significant global slowdown and possible recession?
Think about it: if he is not willing to obey the constitutional niceties what is to say he won’t flounce, found the Boris Party and try and collapse the government and force a GE, splitting the vote on the right? If he is that desperate to stay in office and that delusional about his personal popularity, surely if the Tories try to remove him as leader that is something he could honestly try to do?
I thought the man was mendacious but he is now displaying Trumpian levels of Mad King-ness.
SSI - Surely someone in HM's (actual) household monitored this call. As under circumstances, elder abuse can NOT be ruled out.
"Your Majesty, I hate to bother you with my problems. But truth is, I'm in an awful fix because mean people are out to get me. Same kind that say such nasty things about Prince Andrew. You know you can count on me, Ma'am, I'm your biggest fan since Sir Winston! All I need is a little more time, say until New Years 2032? Plus a small amount to tide the Johnson household over these tough times, to help Carrie with redecorating the flat, and keep Dilyn's doggie bowl nice and full. About 100 million guineas aught to cover it, at least for starters. Pretty please, Your Majesty?"
https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1544762540151947265
Pippa Crerar
@PippaCrerar
·
1m
Tory MPs aghast that Boris Johnson has told his Cabinet he will "fight on". But any observer of the PM knows that he was always going to do exactly that.
The question then becomes, how much of the party machinery sticks with him? How many of the donors? What Russian money might be funnelled in to cause maximum disruption?
Maybe someone will convince him to step back from the brink. But who?
But Bozo isn't honourable and the Tory party haven't got any mechanism to remove him.
Just rejoice at that news.
Now, which one is Jacob Rees-Worm?
https://twitter.com/BeauBerrill/status/1544577627251286016
https://twitter.com/gabyhinsliff/status/1544763287736401920
I think Boris is underestimating how the snowball effect could hit him. Various previously very loyal people have quit and slammed his leadership on a personal level - the existing rebels will renew their verbal assaults, the new rebels will feel released to say everything they've ever wanted to say, they will egg each other on, and they may well start to contemplate even such a state as a House vote.
I still put that as unlikely, but just as he is now contemplating extreme actions to save his job, probably because is so angry, so too will the rebels, who now have a likely majority, be increasingly furious he is making them do this the hard way. And that could lead them to drastic measures.
Working backwards we know that the '22 have a new committee elected on Monday. Which is very likely to say "new rules" and trigger a vote for Tuesday or Wednesday next week.
We also know the PM believes his mandate is from the people instead of from the MPs who vote confidence in him and from Her Majesty who appoints him on that basis.
Reports have it that half a dozen or so senior cabinet ministers told him to go. So add them to the other 39 to date who quit. Not everyone has to be quickly replaced and there will still be some slavish sycophants wanting a ministerial limo.
So, make Matt Vickers Secretary of State for Drinking and Parmos. Send him out to do his drunken thumbs up on the media. And tell the queen there must be a General Election called this weekend.
Why this weekend? Because my mandate from the people is under threat and our democracy demands that we put the question back to them. Some debate. But the palace cannot concede as it opens the door to an almighty political and constitutional row.
What happens if the PM is no longer a Tory candidate? And Starmer and Rayner receive FPNs and resign? Election called for no reason that is urgent or constitutional, no leader in either main party. So it won't happen. Which makes the PMs entire play a non-starter. He is - as I have said to some mocking - toast.
And get mistaken for a fuel protest.
@tnewtondunn https://twitter.com/TheNewsDesk/status/1544755706863157248/video/1
I also don’t think it irreparably damages the Tory Party for him to do so.
iirc the PM is not necessarily the leader of the party. He will take that obscure constitutional nugget and run with it.
FULL VONC across the whole House tomorrow for the good of the country.
Massive tax cuts and handouts tomorrow.
Then to the Palace.
The 1922 have knobbed it again. We won't get to Monday without him at least trying for a dissolution.
He'll believe he can campaign his way out of this with roguish charm. He may not be wrong.
The Conservatives are turning what should be an internal Conservative matter only into a full blown Parliamentary matter.
I understand he told Boris Johnson tonight that he faced a difficult situation, there are lots of government positions that must be filled and winning a vote would be difficult.
But he is not walking
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1544764187972452355
So don't wait up for me.
Though I may roam I'll come back to my home
although it may be
A pile of debris
Remember Mommie, I'm off to kill a Johnnie
So slice me some salami, and try to smile somehow.
I'll look for you when I've quit the Cabinet (checks watch)
An hour and a half from now!
But when did Johnson know the detail of anything?
Your Maj?
I agree with Tyndall.
As the PM clings on, tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnsons-dragged-out-departure-confirms-him-as-britains-trump-1727923
It failed to find one.
Most of them were appointed the last time his leadership was on the very edge, which was like two weeks ago or whatever, so a new set can be found. Nad probably has a group of mates who can step up.
See you Hari and thanks fucking very much etc etc.
His behaviour in clinging onto office is consistent with how he's behaved in his private life when he's been found out too.