Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
I have you down as 50s, slippers, cardigan and living in a crofters cottage on top of the Peak District with electricity on alternate days and a huge supply of condensed milk and teabags
European Parliament Declares Nuclear Power and Gas As 'Green' Energy
Greta isn't going to be happy.
Nuclear power is green, but gas?
I'm not sure that in the long term, all nuclear can be classified as green. And a lot of biomass is anything but green. Such simplistic designations for whole categories of energy generation don't really work.
'green' is a continuum. There is probably no truly 'green' energy source (perhaps not even the Sun). But we might say that well-managed nuclear is 'greener' than well-managed gas, and that is 'greener' than well-managed coal.
And well-managed wind is 'greener' than well-managed nuclear, etc, etc.
Indeed. So net zero by 2050 is a massive sledgehammer to crack a nut.
People want cleaner energy. Why not just let it happen....er.....organically?
PM meeting Red Wall MPs this afternoon in bid to shore up support. One of them, Alex Stafford, has been asking colleagues to attend but 3 who have not publicly said anything on Johnson’s future have said no.
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
It isn't the party its the leader. Any other PM would have resigned before that PMQ having realised they could no carry on.
The rules are being revised because Johnson would not obey the old ones.
They said the same about Corbyn. The parallels between the Corbynites and the Borisites are manifold.
Just occurred to me that Penny Mordaunt could mess up Labour's well-known advantage with women voters. Especially if she makes a big deal out of things like female-only spaces, while Starmer and Labour prevaricate on the subject.
If the Tories go for Mordaunt, then Labour better hope Durham police do the business and move out their man....
Come on, let it go. You don't want this to escalate until you get another sin bin.
Meh, if I'm off this site for good I don't much mind anymore, clearly the moderation team don't care about actually moderating the site.
Feel free to ban me, I'm good
"You don't agree with the moderation" != "he moderation team don't care about actually moderating the site"
I generally think the moderating team do a good job, with a relatively light hand.
(Mods: does this warrant a get-out-of-jail-free card?)
No I think banning me for using the c word and then not banning Leon is ridiculous. And the same for MoonRabbit who didn't do anything. Yet Leon is allowed to swear day after day.
I stand by what I said - but as a site which isn't democratic I also understand that I have a right to be kicked off. So if they want to kick me off for my views on it then that is also fine - or for anything else. I'll live.
For God’s sake man, I used an asterisk. I’ve told you umpteen times
The complete uncensored word will likely get you banned. That’s it. That’s the rule. Not complex
I'm not wanting to get embroiled in other people's arguments but putting an asterisk in there to get away with slinging swear words at someone is pure weaseling.
Anyway, Sajid is on his feet.
Says the spavined old crone that called me a “thoroughly nasty shit” [...]
PB is fun today
I didn't actually. I said you can be a thoroughly nasty shit to people on here. That's not at all the same thing as saying you are one.
p.s. I'm not going to raise again the issue of suicidal thoughts that you mentioned in a very heartfelt way.
x
[...]. You are fucking ridiculous
You can't help yourself, can you? You do this all the time: swearing at people, calling them unintelligent or worse, heaping opprobrium on people.
There's a difference between that and my critiquing your stance on things, albeit it is difficult to keep up with them when they shift around.
Play the ball not the player @Leon. You drag this site down and drive away many good people.
Jesus F Christ
I’m responding to a comment where you thought it was seemly to reference my suicidality thus:
“p.s. I'm not going to raise again the issue of suicidal thoughts that you mentioned in a very heartfelt way“
So, while pretending to not mention my suicidality you successfully mentioned it again, to needle and insult me. You’re a rancid hypocrite and you smell of cat food. I shall stop now before I lose my temper
I know its an exciting day. But can *everyone* take a breath?
It's hilarious!
We are earnestly disussing the sensational political events of the day while there's a fistfight going on in the background.
Just occurred to me that Penny Mordaunt could mess up Labour's well-known advantage with women voters. Especially if she makes a big deal out of things like female-only spaces, while Starmer and Labour prevaricate on the subject.
If the Tories go for Mordaunt, then Labour better hope Durham police do the business and move out their man....
The new PM might yet get very lucky. If Ukraine can win and the economy be looking up by Christmas….
European Parliament Declares Nuclear Power and Gas As 'Green' Energy
Greta isn't going to be happy.
Nuclear power is green, but gas?
I'm not sure that in the long term, all nuclear can be classified as green. And a lot of biomass is anything but green. Such simplistic designations for whole categories of energy generation don't really work.
'green' is a continuum. There is probably no truly 'green' energy source (perhaps not even the Sun). But we might say that well-managed nuclear is 'greener' than well-managed gas, and that is 'greener' than well-managed coal.
And well-managed wind is 'greener' than well-managed nuclear, etc, etc.
Massive problem, the Sun. No global warming* without it
*carefully chosen phrase - absence of Sun would lead to climate change!
Edit: And... 'massive' pun not intended, but I'll take it
PM meeting Red Wall MPs this afternoon in bid to shore up support. One of them, Alex Stafford, has been asking colleagues to attend but 3 who have not publicly said anything on Johnson’s future have said no.
Penny Mordaunt is now favourite with both the next PM and next Tory leader markets on Betfair Exchange. I think Starmer was favourite on next PM until a few days ago.
Do you think she should resign or stick with it? Maybe she can remain and be sufficiently distanced from Johnson.
It probably helps not being in the Cabinet. She is not, for example, on the BBC's list of those staying, or yet to declare.
But yes, if she has any real decency, she should resign. There is some talk of agreements for some ministers to stay in place to make sure the system doesn't melt down, but that seems a bit unconvincing.
Penny Mordaunt is now favourite with both the next PM and next Tory leader markets on Betfair Exchange. I think Starmer was favourite on next PM until a few days ago.
Do you think she should resign or stick with it? Maybe she can remain and be sufficiently distanced from Johnson.
It probably helps not being in the Cabinet. She is not, for example, on the BBC's list of those staying, or yet to declare.
But yes, if she has any real decency, she should resign. There is some talk of agreements for some ministers to stay in place to make sure the system doesn't melt down, but that seems a bit unconvincing.
Very unconvincing. Unless the Humphreys start resigning.
I once got very drunk with Stuart Andrew, amongst others - a very nice bloke.
I'm sure he is – and I didn't mean to be unkind. I am just aware that most people won't have heard of him. We need some big names otherwise the momentum will slowly fade again!
His trouble is he just isn’t quite good enough as a public speaker to take the next step. He clearly wants to, but it’s not quite there. He won’t wear the crown.
PM meeting Red Wall MPs this afternoon in bid to shore up support. One of them, Alex Stafford, has been asking colleagues to attend but 3 who have not publicly said anything on Johnson’s future have said no.
Part of what is at play and evolving now is constitutional as much as political. Clear move for some time to root the PM's legitimacy and authority in 2019 election result as much as confidence of MPs. We're finding out just how far a prime minister can push that.
Either PM has already lost confidence in the Conservative parliamentary party or is very close to it. If so the question is whether that will can find a way of expressing itself fatally, ie which is more powerful than the PM's own will to stay in office and presidential view.
Penny Mordaunt is now favourite with both the next PM and next Tory leader markets on Betfair Exchange. I think Starmer was favourite on next PM until a few days ago.
Do you think she should resign or stick with it? Maybe she can remain and be sufficiently distanced from Johnson.
It probably helps not being in the Cabinet. She is not, for example, on the BBC's list of those staying, or yet to declare.
But yes, if she has any real decency, she should resign. There is some talk of agreements for some ministers to stay in place to make sure the system doesn't melt down, but that seems a bit unconvincing.
If we were genuinely in a place where ministers were staying in place for that reason, the Tory Party would have utterly failed. If it seemed even vaguely on the horizon the Cabinet should speak to the Palace.
PM meeting Red Wall MPs this afternoon in bid to shore up support. One of them, Alex Stafford, has been asking colleagues to attend but 3 who have not publicly said anything on Johnson’s future have said no.
PM meeting Red Wall MPs this afternoon in bid to shore up support. One of them, Alex Stafford, has been asking colleagues to attend but 3 who have not publicly said anything on Johnson’s future have said no.
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
That's a myth.
Agreed. It relied on the sitting leader playing ball and realising it was over. It was the unspoken rule if you lost about 30-35% of the MPs you quit, despite the written rules saying something else.
BOTH Labour and the Conservatives are now finding out that if you want 'unspoken' rules, you can't. You write them down as the proper rules.
Corbyn would've been binned in 2016 if Labour had proper leadership rules. Johnson would've been gone three weeks ago likewise.
Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
I have you down as 50s, slippers, cardigan and living in a crofters cottage on top of the Peak District with electricity on alternate days and a huge supply of condensed milk and teabags
You are well off.
I once propositioned him, only to find....well let's just say I'm not his type.
Come on, let it go. You don't want this to escalate until you get another sin bin.
Meh, if I'm off this site for good I don't much mind anymore, clearly the moderation team don't care about actually moderating the site.
Feel free to ban me, I'm good
"You don't agree with the moderation" != "he moderation team don't care about actually moderating the site"
I generally think the moderating team do a good job, with a relatively light hand.
(Mods: does this warrant a get-out-of-jail-free card?)
No I think banning me for using the c word and then not banning Leon is ridiculous. And the same for MoonRabbit who didn't do anything. Yet Leon is allowed to swear day after day.
I stand by what I said - but as a site which isn't democratic I also understand that I have a right to be kicked off. So if they want to kick me off for my views on it then that is also fine - or for anything else. I'll live.
For God’s sake man, I used an asterisk. I’ve told you umpteen times
The complete uncensored word will likely get you banned. That’s it. That’s the rule. Not complex
I'm not wanting to get embroiled in other people's arguments but putting an asterisk in there to get away with slinging swear words at someone is pure weaseling.
Anyway, Sajid is on his feet.
Says the spavined old crone that called me a “thoroughly nasty shit” [...]
PB is fun today
I didn't actually. I said you can be a thoroughly nasty shit to people on here. That's not at all the same thing as saying you are one.
p.s. I'm not going to raise again the issue of suicidal thoughts that you mentioned in a very heartfelt way.
x
[...]. You are fucking ridiculous
You can't help yourself, can you? You do this all the time: swearing at people, calling them unintelligent or worse, heaping opprobrium on people.
There's a difference between that and my critiquing your stance on things, albeit it is difficult to keep up with them when they shift around.
Play the ball not the player @Leon. You drag this site down and drive away many good people.
Jesus F Christ
I’m responding to a comment where you thought it was seemly to reference my suicidality thus:
“p.s. I'm not going to raise again the issue of suicidal thoughts that you mentioned in a very heartfelt way“
So, while pretending to not mention my suicidality you successfully mentioned it again, to needle and insult me. You’re a rancid hypocrite and you smell of cat food. I shall stop now before I lose my temper
I know its an exciting day. But can *everyone* take a breath?
It's hilarious!
We are earnestly disussing the sensational political events of the day while there's a fistfight going on in the background.
Only on PB...
Has Leon lost the confidence of PB? Will the 2003 Committee meet to consider a challenge against him? How many letters of No Confidence against Leon is TSE holding?
Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
I have you down as 50s, slippers, cardigan and living in a crofters cottage on top of the Peak District with electricity on alternate days and a huge supply of condensed milk and teabags
In the 80s, MD might have been labelled a young fogey, but I don't think he was born at the time ?
@correcthorsebattery – I’d suggest what would do you good right now is not a ban from here but a spell with real people in real life.
Humans are pretty good at getting along with each other in person. We’ve thousands of years of practice at it. We communicate in all sorts of ways, many of which predate language. We seek out agreement (and so traditionally, in areas where we may find disagreement, like politics and religion, we traditionally trod very carefully). When someone in real life presents a controversial opinion which others do not agree with, more often than not disagreement will be cautious, or, more likely, the subject will be gradually steered to safer territory; the presenter of the controversial opinion may not even be aware others do not agree with him. But we are pretty bad at getting on with each other online, where we do not have the filters and assistance of non-verbal communication, and tend to seek out disagreement. Some people relish this sort of thing; you, I suspect, like me, do not. You prefer to find areas of agreement to areas of disagreement, but are in an environment where people will cheerfully and aggressively disagree in a way which they would not in real life. This can give the impression that there is more that we disagree on than that we agree on, which is bad for the mental health – though in really, there is far more in the world that we can agree on, or at least not mind about disagreeing on. Have a brief spell with real people in real life and remind yourself how agreeable the real world can be! And come back refreshed.
Risk for those who remain in Cabinet now is that they invalidate themselves as next leader because it seems the parliamentary party is going to have to do the hard work of wrinkling BJ out. https://twitter.com/adamboultonTABB/status/1544656663600402432
Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
I have you down as 50s, slippers, cardigan and living in a crofters cottage on top of the Peak District with electricity on alternate days and a huge supply of condensed milk and teabags
In the 80s, MD might have been labelled a young fogey, but I don't think he was born at the time ?
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
That's a myth.
Agreed. It relied on the sitting leader playing ball and realising it was over. It was the unspoken rule if you lost about 30-35% of the MPs you quit, despite the written rules saying something else.
BOTH Labour and the Conservatives are now finding out that if you want 'unspoken' rules, you can't. You write them down as the proper rules.
Corbyn would've been binned in 2016 if Labour had proper leadership rules. Johnson would've been gone three weeks ago likewise.
Both rulebooks are not fit for purpose.
They are base, like most of our political systems, on the "Decent Chap" assumption.
Without everything being run by Decent Chaps it turns out the rules and laws don't work.
@correcthorsebattery – I’d suggest what would do you good right now is not a ban from here but a spell with real people in real life.
Humans are pretty good at getting along with each other in person. We’ve thousands of years of practice at it. We communicate in all sorts of ways, many of which predate language. We seek out agreement (and so traditionally, in areas where we may find disagreement, like politics and religion, we traditionally trod very carefully). When someone in real life presents a controversial opinion which others do not agree with, more often than not disagreement will be cautious, or, more likely, the subject will be gradually steered to safer territory; the presenter of the controversial opinion may not even be aware others do not agree with him. But we are pretty bad at getting on with each other online, where we do not have the filters and assistance of non-verbal communication, and tend to seek out disagreement. Some people relish this sort of thing; you, I suspect, like me, do not. You prefer to find areas of agreement to areas of disagreement, but are in an environment where people will cheerfully and aggressively disagree in a way which they would not in real life. This can give the impression that there is more that we disagree on than that we agree on, which is bad for the mental health – though in really, there is far more in the world that we can agree on, or at least not mind about disagreeing on. Have a brief spell with real people in real life and remind yourself how agreeable the real world can be! And come back refreshed.
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
That's a myth.
Agreed. It relied on the sitting leader playing ball and realising it was over. It was the unspoken rule if you lost about 30-35% of the MPs you quit, despite the written rules saying something else.
BOTH Labour and the Conservatives are now finding out that if you want 'unspoken' rules, you can't. You write them down as the proper rules.
Corbyn would've been binned in 2016 if Labour had proper leadership rules. Johnson would've been gone three weeks ago likewise.
Both rulebooks are not fit for purpose.
Except Ed Miliband, Jeremy Corbyn and IDS for example were all elected leaders of Labour and the Tories despite the fact most of their party MPs did not vote for them, they won because of the votes of party members and supporters.
Once members got a vote in the party leadership then leaders could press on even with a significant minority of their MPs opposed to them in the Tories case or despite a majority of their MPs opposed to them in Labour's case (hence Corbyn survived)
That depends on how you measure it. The amount of steel or carbon fibre required to build the things is non-trivial, as are the massive concrete bases to hold them up. And sometimes large tracts of peat moorland are disturbed to build the things, releasing captured CO2.
Some greenies use similar arguments against nuclear power, so sauce for the gander and all that.
PM meeting Red Wall MPs this afternoon in bid to shore up support. One of them, Alex Stafford, has been asking colleagues to attend but 3 who have not publicly said anything on Johnson’s future have said no.
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
That's a myth.
Agreed. It relied on the sitting leader playing ball and realising it was over. It was the unspoken rule if you lost about 30-35% of the MPs you quit, despite the written rules saying something else.
BOTH Labour and the Conservatives are now finding out that if you want 'unspoken' rules, you can't. You write them down as the proper rules.
Corbyn would've been binned in 2016 if Labour had proper leadership rules. Johnson would've been gone three weeks ago likewise.
Both rulebooks are not fit for purpose.
The Tory leadership rules as they stand have at least evicted one leader, but it's very difficult to do so in government.
I liked the idea someone came up with that a supermajority would mean no leadership concept and a bare majority would mean a leadership contest in which the leader could stand again, whereas an outright defeat would exclude the leader from the next contest.
I once got very drunk with Stuart Andrew, amongst others - a very nice bloke.
I'm sure he is – and I didn't mean to be unkind. I am just aware that most people won't have heard of him. We need some big names otherwise the momentum will slowly fade again!
No I didn't mean to imply you were being nasty. And I know most people will have no idea who he is. Just thought I'd share my very insubstantial anecdote! Quiet on here today so I thought I'd help to keep the thread alive...
Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
To be fair, you must see how you can come across as stuck in your ways (for example, your perplexing refusal to use the quote function even though you must know that it hinders discussion).
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
Nothing they can do. the system always depended on a sense of shame and decency.
The system always moved pretty slowly though. It was almost a year from Sir Anthony Meyer's stalking horse* candidature to the actual leadership election. The system has never had to deal with such a rapid descent from zenith to nadir as the current situation.
Sweden and Finland NATO accession ratification being fast-tracked through Parliament, before the recess.
Wonder how Magic Grandpa will vote...
Lammy says Labour will be supporting, as well as supporting the 2.5% target (up from 2%) of GDP on defence spending.
The few Russophiles still left in Parliament exposing themselves will be worth documenting. Yes, Magic Grandpa will be one of them.
No reversal of Brexit. No Single Market. No Customs Union. A boost to defence spending. The left are going to hate the next Labour Government quite quickly, and call them Tories aren’t they?
That depends on how you measure it. The amount of steel or carbon fibre required to build the things is non-trivial, as are the massive concrete bases to hold them up. And sometimes large tracts of peat moorland are disturbed to build the things, releasing captured CO2.
Some greenies use similar arguments against nuclear power, so sauce for the gander and all that.
Yes, but it's relatively easy to draw up a net CO2 budget for them, allowing for those factors, including maintenance and end of life disposal. Nuclear, given the uncertainties about decommissioning, and the long tail requirements for storage, etc, is much more difficult.
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
No it isn't. Wind turbines have to be manufactured (from steel?), using a lot of dirty, carbon belching processes, then shipped over (probably) from their country of manufacture, then installed, then at the end of their life, decommissioned. Leaving carbon aside (not the only measure of green) they also have an impact on fauna (bird life) and the landscape. So it's nowhere near that simple.
Come on, let it go. You don't want this to escalate until you get another sin bin.
Meh, if I'm off this site for good I don't much mind anymore, clearly the moderation team don't care about actually moderating the site.
Feel free to ban me, I'm good
"You don't agree with the moderation" != "he moderation team don't care about actually moderating the site"
I generally think the moderating team do a good job, with a relatively light hand.
(Mods: does this warrant a get-out-of-jail-free card?)
No I think banning me for using the c word and then not banning Leon is ridiculous. And the same for MoonRabbit who didn't do anything. Yet Leon is allowed to swear day after day.
I stand by what I said - but as a site which isn't democratic I also understand that I have a right to be kicked off. So if they want to kick me off for my views on it then that is also fine - or for anything else. I'll live.
For God’s sake man, I used an asterisk. I’ve told you umpteen times
The complete uncensored word will likely get you banned. That’s it. That’s the rule. Not complex
I'm not wanting to get embroiled in other people's arguments but putting an asterisk in there to get away with slinging swear words at someone is pure weaseling.
Anyway, Sajid is on his feet.
It is an accepted standard for printed swears. No different to a bleep on tv - we all know, but it doesn't cross the line. It's sad that such a point has so upset a good poster.
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
To be fair, you must see how you can come across as stuck in your ways (for example, your perplexing refusal to use the quote function even though you must know that it hinders discussion).
I cherish that particular idiosyncrasy as one of the site's quirks. In the old days, Morris also used to refuse to use the convention of referring to the number of the comment your reply pertained to. It makes life more difficult, yes, but why must we always strive towards ease and conformity?
Sweden and Finland NATO accession ratification being fast-tracked through Parliament, before the recess.
Wonder how Magic Grandpa will vote...
Lammy says Labour will be supporting, as well as supporting the 2.5% target (up from 2%) of GDP on defence spending.
The few Russophiles still left in Parliament exposing themselves will be worth documenting. Yes, Magic Grandpa will be one of them.
No reversal of Brexit. No Single Market. No Customs Union. A boost to defence spending. The left are going to hate the next Labour Government quite quickly, and call them Tories aren’t they?
Giving the MoD more money is the same as burning it. Total waste. They should cut it to 1.5% and finally force some hard choices.
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
It isn't the party its the leader. Any other PM would have resigned before that PMQ having realised they could no carry on.
The rules are being revised because Johnson would not obey the old ones.
They said the same about Corbyn. The parallels between the Corbynites and the Borisites are manifold.
It really is - we've seen supposed conservatives talking up radical ideas of personal PM mandates and the primacy of party members over MPs
Can the Tory party get on with this please. Brady needs to change the rules tonight and get the vote done tomorrow.
I do wonder what has happened to the Tories. Say what you like about them, in years past they could always be relied upon efficiently and ruthlessly remove an unwanted PM.
These days, they make Labour look decisive.
Sir Graham Brady Old Lady needs to sort it out, PDQ.
It isn't the party its the leader. Any other PM would have resigned before that PMQ having realised they could no carry on.
The rules are being revised because Johnson would not obey the old ones.
I haven't read e thread but two excellent soundbites from Sir Keir brilliantly delivered. He's clearly either got a new scriptwriter or some presentational tutoring probably both.
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
Yes, good point. He can refuse to resign as PM but he can’t stop the Tory Party chucking him out. At which point the Tory Party observes it’s new leader is the one who commands a majority, not Boris.
Forstater's is a sad case which has rumbled on for ages. I hope she sues her ex-employers - pleased she has pursued this; it takes bravery to make a stand against this nonsense.
No it isn't. Wind turbines have to be manufactured (from steel?), using a lot of dirty, carbon belching processes, then shipped over (probably) from their country of manufacture, then installed, then at the end of their life, decommissioned. Leaving carbon aside (not the only measure of green) they also have an impact on fauna (bird life) and the landscape. So it's nowhere near that simple.
Predominantly steel but a fair bit of Resin/Plastic too. The Just Stop Oil Loons seem to forget oil also produces products other than much needed fossil fuels.
Mr. Tubbs, some time ago people elsewhere that I frequented guessed my age. Ranged from 20s to 60s with most being around 30-40. I was 18 at the time.
To be fair, you must see how you can come across as stuck in your ways (for example, your perplexing refusal to use the quote function even though you must know that it hinders discussion).
I cherish that particular idiosyncrasy as one of the site's quirks. In the old days, Morris also used to refuse to use the convention of referring to the number of the comment your reply pertained to. It makes life more difficult, yes, but why must we always strive towards ease and conformity?
We don't need to, but we should avoid intentionally making things more difficult.
Sweden and Finland NATO accession ratification being fast-tracked through Parliament, before the recess.
Wonder how Magic Grandpa will vote...
Lammy says Labour will be supporting, as well as supporting the 2.5% target (up from 2%) of GDP on defence spending.
The few Russophiles still left in Parliament exposing themselves will be worth documenting. Yes, Magic Grandpa will be one of them.
No reversal of Brexit. No Single Market. No Customs Union. A boost to defence spending. The left are going to hate the next Labour Government quite quickly, and call them Tories aren’t they?
Quite possibly gives Lib Dems a leg up in in Remain-ish Tory seats!
To clarify my election talk - Boris can head to the palace before the confidence vote. If he loses a '22 vote and doesn't leave it's a different issue though. My guess is that Starmer would call a VONC and - unusual circs as they are it'd pass in the extreme circumstances Boris has then created.
Sweden and Finland NATO accession ratification being fast-tracked through Parliament, before the recess.
Wonder how Magic Grandpa will vote...
Lammy says Labour will be supporting, as well as supporting the 2.5% target (up from 2%) of GDP on defence spending.
The few Russophiles still left in Parliament exposing themselves will be worth documenting. Yes, Magic Grandpa will be one of them.
No reversal of Brexit. No Single Market. No Customs Union. A boost to defence spending. The left are going to hate the next Labour Government quite quickly, and call them Tories aren’t they?
Giving the MoD more money is the same as burning it. Total waste. They should cut it to 1.5% and finally force some hard choices.
I find the attachment to a fixed percentage of GDP silly anyway. Do those in favour want to cut defence in a recession? I suspect not. As with anything, you decide what you want to achieve, check if you can afford it, and go from there. Like health, defence is a potential bottomless pit without a clear strategy.
Understand current 1922 exec is split on approaches to ousting PM - some saying they should go ahead with election of new exec before changing rules on VONC others saying they should change rules today
The Welsh First Minister leading the crackdown on second homes has a Pembrokeshire holiday 'chalet' that will be exempt from his Government's new higher tax charges.
Mark Drakeford has admitted to owning a holiday ‘chalet’ just as the Welsh Government launched a crackdown on second homes and holiday lets.
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
The Welsh First Minister leading the crackdown on second homes has a Pembrokeshire holiday 'chalet' that will be exempt from his Government's new higher tax charges.
Mark Drakeford has admitted to owning a holiday ‘chalet’ just as the Welsh Government launched a crackdown on second homes and holiday lets.
Well-placed source convinced Boris Johnson won’t quit, even if the 22 change the rules, and he loses a VONC.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
That would make for a fantastic constitutional crisis. He loses a VONC and is no longer the Prime Minister. He remains Prime Minister because that person does not have to be leader of a party or even an MP. He says "fuck you all" and asks the palace for a dissolution.
Question - how is such a request met? As he is no longer the leader of the governing party he is unlikely to command a majority either before or after an election. So his request surely would be invalid and thus ignored. The palace *might* treat such a request instead as a resignation and call an alternative PM - after all the governing party has a substantial majority.
No, his team may be blustering about such madcap japes, but they don't remotely work. At the point when he realises that he will walk. Not PM, not MP for Uxbridge. Not likely even in this country. Wonder if he will go to see his Russian friends?
Comments
Didn’t he do some awful Christmas vid where this lack of oratorical skill was painfully revealed?
People want cleaner energy. Why not just let it happen....er.....organically?
Not a great sign.
https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1544654176730451969
We are earnestly disussing the sensational political events of the day while there's a fistfight going on in the background.
Only on PB...
*carefully chosen phrase - absence of Sun would lead to climate change!
Edit: And... 'massive' pun not intended, but I'll take it
https://futurself.ai/
She is not, for example, on the BBC's list of those staying, or yet to declare.
But yes, if she has any real decency, she should resign.
There is some talk of agreements for some ministers to stay in place to make sure the system doesn't melt down, but that seems a bit unconvincing.
But nuclear, wind etc are all entirely appropriate for net zero ambitions.
But like Howe's, it was a very effective speech from a person lacking in any rhetorical skills.
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544643641473482754
Either PM has already lost confidence in the Conservative parliamentary party or is very close to it. If so the question is whether that will can find a way of expressing itself fatally, ie which is more powerful than the PM's own will to stay in office and presidential view.
BOTH Labour and the Conservatives are now finding out that if you want 'unspoken' rules, you can't. You write them down as the proper rules.
Corbyn would've been binned in 2016 if Labour had proper leadership rules. Johnson would've been gone three weeks ago likewise.
Both rulebooks are not fit for purpose.
I once propositioned him, only to find....well let's just say I'm not his type.
Press conference later...
Humans are pretty good at getting along with each other in person. We’ve thousands of years of practice at it. We communicate in all sorts of ways, many of which predate language. We seek out agreement (and so traditionally, in areas where we may find disagreement, like politics and religion, we traditionally trod very carefully). When someone in real life presents a controversial opinion which others do not agree with, more often than not disagreement will be cautious, or, more likely, the subject will be gradually steered to safer territory; the presenter of the controversial opinion may not even be aware others do not agree with him.
But we are pretty bad at getting on with each other online, where we do not have the filters and assistance of non-verbal communication, and tend to seek out disagreement. Some people relish this sort of thing; you, I suspect, like me, do not. You prefer to find areas of agreement to areas of disagreement, but are in an environment where people will cheerfully and aggressively disagree in a way which they would not in real life. This can give the impression that there is more that we disagree on than that we agree on, which is bad for the mental health – though in really, there is far more in the world that we can agree on, or at least not mind about disagreeing on.
Have a brief spell with real people in real life and remind yourself how agreeable the real world can be! And come back refreshed.
https://twitter.com/adamboultonTABB/status/1544656663600402432
Without everything being run by Decent Chaps it turns out the rules and laws don't work.
Once members got a vote in the party leadership then leaders could press on even with a significant minority of their MPs opposed to them in the Tories case or despite a majority of their MPs opposed to them in Labour's case (hence Corbyn survived)
Some greenies use similar arguments against nuclear power, so sauce for the gander and all that.
I liked the idea someone came up with that a supermajority would mean no leadership concept and a bare majority would mean a leadership contest in which the leader could stand again, whereas an outright defeat would exclude the leader from the next contest.
The few Russophiles still left in Parliament exposing themselves will be worth documenting. Yes, Magic Grandpa will be one of them.
*I have just found out the origin of the phrase stalking horse. Moderately interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_horse#Origin
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62061929
A yes after being asked 5 times.
Nuclear, given the uncertainties about decommissioning, and the long tail requirements for storage, etc, is much more difficult.
Instead, he’ll claim he has a mandate from 14m voters, and will threaten to force an election - but not before deselecting everyone who voted against him.
This was more or less the scorched-earth strategy the PM employed during the 2018 Brexit crisis, which saw him withdraw the whip from 21 MPs who tried to stop him bringing the UK’s fragile constitution to its knees.
That said, he had a somewhat punchier team of advisors behind him at the time…
And others who know the PM well are telling me he’s “done.”
https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1544658135998238722
Popcorn shortage.
Well, perhaps.
Not Saj mind.
What does 'deselect' mean here....?
Or sociopath.
Or both.
Only explanations.
In the old days, Morris also used to refuse to use the convention of referring to the number of the comment your reply pertained to. It makes life more difficult, yes, but why must we always strive towards ease and conformity?
What a leader! Cometh the hour etc.
By my reckoning we're up to 22. 18 resignations + party chair last week + 3 backbenchers who publicly opposed the No Confidence vote.
David Johnston, PPS at Education
Claire Coutinho, PPS at the Treasury
My guess is that Starmer would call a VONC and - unusual circs as they are it'd pass in the extreme circumstances Boris has then created.
They are receiving a "fuck load of angry correspondence" so there's pressure to move sooner rather than later
https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1544660578672713728
The Welsh First Minister leading the crackdown on second homes has a Pembrokeshire holiday 'chalet' that will be exempt from his Government's new higher tax charges.
Mark Drakeford has admitted to owning a holiday ‘chalet’ just as the Welsh Government launched a crackdown on second homes and holiday lets.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/welsh-first-minister-leading-crackdown-holiday-homes-admits/
Good practice for September.
So that might take it to 25? Its hard to keep track.
EDIT: No, 23 I think. Sky tracker has updated to 19 resignations, add the party chair and 3 backbenchers we're up to 23/32.
He loses a VONC and is no longer the Prime Minister.
He remains Prime Minister because that person does not have to be leader of a party or even an MP.
He says "fuck you all" and asks the palace for a dissolution.
Question - how is such a request met? As he is no longer the leader of the governing party he is unlikely to command a majority either before or after an election. So his request surely would be invalid and thus ignored. The palace *might* treat such a request instead as a resignation and call an alternative PM - after all the governing party has a substantial majority.
No, his team may be blustering about such madcap japes, but they don't remotely work. At the point when he realises that he will walk. Not PM, not MP for Uxbridge. Not likely even in this country. Wonder if he will go to see his Russian friends?
Trouble with that is he won't have a majority if it is 37 or more.