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The LDs claim to be just 2% behind in Tiverton & Honiton – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,759
    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,962
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606
    edited June 2022
    Wife’s surgery cancelled today at last minute to covid. Not enough healthy staff to run theatre. She’s devastated.

    Covid isn’t done.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Toldya


    ‘At the Labour Communications group on June 8 Ms McMorrin was asked: “Could we ever return to the single market?”

    She replied: “I really hope so.”

    She added: “Customs union and single market at the very least I think, in future.”

    She accepted “there is not really scope for having that conversation at the moment”, but said all that could change if Labour won power.’

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18889986/keir-starmer-ally-labour-government-brexit/

    She’s already been reprimanded. You’re behind.
    But I was right. Again. And here is proof

    I was the first, I believe, to make this pretty obvious extrapolation. As soon as Labour gain power, whoever is leader will come under intense pressure to move much closer to the EU. Single market membership will follow swiftly.

    If it is Keir “second vote” Starmer he will be emotionally inclined to agree - to put it mildly. We will be back in the SM by 2026-7. He could even use the boat crisis as an excuse. “This way we can get the French to co-operate” etc

    No, I don't think so. Certainly a more constructive attitude to our continental and Irish friends, but he is too frit to join the SM or CU.

    He is ahead in the polls and on course for number 10, but his timidity on policy is his achillies heel. Ultimately Starmer needs to say what he wants to change, and what he wants to change it to. At the moment he gives the impression of not knowing his own mind.
    Starmer is an organiser not a leader. A manager not a director. He will take instructions from his peer group, and they will tell him: SM. And he will manage it and organize it

    His intense boringness might actually make it easier to sell
    Very good summary of Starmer.
    Perhaps, but Leon is a journalist and occasional novelist. He clearly knows nothing about leadership and he is wrong; people with strong managerial capability can make great leaders through example. @Leon demonstrates his weakness in commenting on this subject by the fact that he was a major cheerleader for Boris Johnson, a man with no genuine leadership or management skills; something that has been apparent to a lot of us for a long time. Being a show-off or an egotist is not a leadership skill.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,773
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the LDs are 2% behind at all. I think they're ahead by miles.
    LD propaganda.

    What I was thinking.
    Absolutely standard LD tactics. Done it myself decades ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,707
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
    It is immoral. If they want to profit from the housing market then go and build new property. Take an actual risk. Hopefully the interest rate rises put loads of them under water and turn them into forced sellers.

    If it were up to me I'd have an annual 5% value surcharge, a 15% additional stamp duty rate on purchase and income tax on the capital gain and no allowance for capital losses. For new builds a non-transferable 25 year exemption and standard CGT on sale. Burn the buy to let scumbags, burn them very hard.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275
    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,773
    Jonathan said:

    Wife’s surgery cancelled today at last minute to covid. Not enough healthy staff to run theatre. She’s devastated.

    Covid isn’t done.

    Very sorry to hear that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,848
    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the LDs are 2% behind at all. I think they're ahead by miles.
    LD propaganda.

    What I was thinking.
    Absolutely standard LD tactics. Done it myself decades ago.
    If you're neck and neck, you say that you are. If you're miles ahead, you say that you're neck and neck.

    The questionable bit is when you're nowhere near. In those circumstances, you probably need to seek out a renowned polling expert to provide a more authoritative opinion.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    The USA might be in a bad place, but the world still absolubtely LOVES the dollar
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,194
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
    It is immoral. If they want to profit from the housing market then go and build new property. Take an actual risk. Hopefully the interest rate rises put loads of them under water and turn them into forced sellers.

    If it were up to me I'd have an annual 5% value surcharge, a 15% additional stamp duty rate on purchase and income tax on the capital gain and no allowance for capital losses. For new builds a non-transferable 25 year exemption and standard CGT on sale. Burn the buy to let scumbags, burn them very hard.
    So you don’t advocate investing in shares then? People should be going and setting up businesses instead?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,773
    Waiting to board the train to Faro. My view of the Portuguese so far on this trip is they seem to be young and very very polite.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275
    Taz said:

    fitalass said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it.

    "if"...
    All Nicola Sturgeon announced yesterday was her intention to continue to keep talking about promising a second Referendum next year, its become an annual event to keep the SNP membership from getting too restless... I suspect yesterday's Independence PR stunt inside and outside Holyrood was more about launching Angus Robertson's leadership campaign to succeed her, and I predict that there is now more chance of Nicola Sturgeon standing down than an Indy Ref happening next year.
    I agree and I think @malcolmg has called it correctly. Again
    She will be hoping to get out before the court cases happen, they can only slow down investigations and cases for so longer with their shills covering for them
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,707

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
    It is immoral. If they want to profit from the housing market then go and build new property. Take an actual risk. Hopefully the interest rate rises put loads of them under water and turn them into forced sellers.

    If it were up to me I'd have an annual 5% value surcharge, a 15% additional stamp duty rate on purchase and income tax on the capital gain and no allowance for capital losses. For new builds a non-transferable 25 year exemption and standard CGT on sale. Burn the buy to let scumbags, burn them very hard.
    So you don’t advocate investing in shares then? People should be going and setting up businesses instead?
    People can't live in shares.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    DavidL said:

    A lot of weird things happen on PB but finding my morning thread littered with shields of bustards is definitely up there.

    I caught buses to three of the bustard shield towns yesterday, and I'm going on a bus to a fourth one today.

    I feel like I ought to try to do the other two over the weekend..
    Nice - which ones? Devizes, Warminster and Calne among my favourites.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,923

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
    Weren't you moaning a couple of weeks ago about folk who don't live in Wales pronouncing on Welsh goings on?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    The PM refuses to publish Geidt’s resignation letter explaining why he quit. Ministers then say they can’t comment because they don’t have the facts. Yet again Johnson circles the wagons round a roaring fire of corpses and turds while telling us all there’s nothing to see.
    https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/1537345854469722112
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,194
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the LDs are 2% behind at all. I think they're ahead by miles.
    LD propaganda.

    What I was thinking.
    Absolutely standard LD tactics. Done it myself decades ago.
    If you're neck and neck, you say that you are. If you're miles ahead, you say that you're neck and neck.

    The questionable bit is when you're nowhere near. In those circumstances, you probably need to seek out a renowned polling expert to provide a more authoritative opinion.
    How would he do that? May be write letters to targeted voters?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
    I became an accidental UK landlord when I first moved abroad, and I’m done with it now. Probably another £75/month about to hit the mortgage as interest rates rise, and property prices likely to start falling, it’s time to sell up. House will be on the market next week.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    🚨Urgent Question granted by Speaker today re Geidt resignation:
    Fleur Anderson - To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office if he will make a statement on the resignation of the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1537345174191341568
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
    Ha ha ha , the arrogance of the colonial unionists is unbelievable
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,753
    Mr. Jonathan, sorry to hear that, hope a new date can be scheduled quickly.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,194
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
    It is immoral. If they want to profit from the housing market then go and build new property. Take an actual risk. Hopefully the interest rate rises put loads of them under water and turn them into forced sellers.

    If it were up to me I'd have an annual 5% value surcharge, a 15% additional stamp duty rate on purchase and income tax on the capital gain and no allowance for capital losses. For new builds a non-transferable 25 year exemption and standard CGT on sale. Burn the buy to let scumbags, burn them very hard.
    So you don’t advocate investing in shares then? People should be going and setting up businesses instead?
    People can't live in shares.
    They are investing capital in the expectation of income and capital growth
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,773
    kjh said:

    Waiting to board the train to Faro. My view of the Portuguese so far on this trip is they seem to be young and very very polite.

    As an old codger I can get from Lisbon to Faro for 10 euros. That is ridiculous.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Toldya


    ‘At the Labour Communications group on June 8 Ms McMorrin was asked: “Could we ever return to the single market?”

    She replied: “I really hope so.”

    She added: “Customs union and single market at the very least I think, in future.”

    She accepted “there is not really scope for having that conversation at the moment”, but said all that could change if Labour won power.’

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18889986/keir-starmer-ally-labour-government-brexit/

    She’s already been reprimanded. You’re behind.
    But I was right. Again. And here is proof

    I was the first, I believe, to make this pretty obvious extrapolation. As soon as Labour gain power, whoever is leader will come under intense pressure to move much closer to the EU. Single market membership will follow swiftly.

    If it is Keir “second vote” Starmer he will be emotionally inclined to agree - to put it mildly. We will be back in the SM by 2026-7. He could even use the boat crisis as an excuse. “This way we can get the French to co-operate” etc

    No, I don't think so. Certainly a more constructive attitude to our continental and Irish friends, but he is too frit to join the SM or CU.

    He is ahead in the polls and on course for number 10, but his timidity on policy is his achillies heel. Ultimately Starmer needs to say what he wants to change, and what he wants to change it to. At the moment he gives the impression of not knowing his own mind.
    Starmer is an organiser not a leader. A manager not a director. He will take instructions from his peer group, and they will tell him: SM. And he will manage it and organize it

    His intense boringness might actually make it easier to sell
    Very good summary of Starmer.
    Perhaps, but Leon is a journalist and occasional novelist. He clearly knows nothing about leadership and he is wrong; people with strong managerial capability can make great leaders through example. @Leon demonstrates his weakness in commenting on this subject by the fact that he was a major cheerleader for Boris Johnson, a man with no genuine leadership or management skills; something that has been apparent to a lot of us for a long time. Being a show-off or an egotist is not a leadership skill.
    Ha ha ha big head the important has decreed Leon is not worthy
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,962

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
    Weren't you moaning a couple of weeks ago about folk who don't live in Wales pronouncing on Welsh goings on?
    It must be hard for you to see independence disappearing into ether but over it is
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,707

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?

    At least, quite likely 0.5%.

    0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense

    BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
    That isn't in the BoE's remit and it's why Bailey has no credibility with the markets. They keep worrying about the economy and not the fucking rate of inflation which is destroying the economy. Fuck the landlords and housing speculators that will get burned by rate rises.
    Owner occupiers will be burnt far more seriously than landlords; they (you?) get far more subsidies, and mortgage far more heavily.

    LLs are long-term investors/business people who will wait it out.
    What subsidies?
    The CGT exemption is the big one although it is only much use when you sell the house. There is arguably a benefit in kind which is also exempt.

    But what we have seen in recent years is the taxation position for landlords has become ever more hostile, driving some buy to let purchasers out of the market. So far those who are seriously invested have held on but there must be a tipping point when significant quantities of housing comes onto the market driving down house prices in real terms. Those who are over leveraged will be the first and the inevitable increase in interest rates today will drive that. Owning houses to let them for profit has become almost immoral in this country. Its a bit weird. Not as weird as the bustards though.
    It is immoral. If they want to profit from the housing market then go and build new property. Take an actual risk. Hopefully the interest rate rises put loads of them under water and turn them into forced sellers.

    If it were up to me I'd have an annual 5% value surcharge, a 15% additional stamp duty rate on purchase and income tax on the capital gain and no allowance for capital losses. For new builds a non-transferable 25 year exemption and standard CGT on sale. Burn the buy to let scumbags, burn them very hard.
    So you don’t advocate investing in shares then? People should be going and setting up businesses instead?
    People can't live in shares.
    They are investing capital in the expectation of income and capital growth
    Again, people can't live in shares.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,962
    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
    Ha ha ha , the arrogance of the colonial unionists is unbelievable
    Difficult for you Malc but it is over
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Britain *will not* schedule another Rwanda flight before the judicial review next month, Dominic Raab has admitted

    He said that under the HRA the UK has to 'adhere' to ECHR injunctions - it cannot ignore them

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1537346684744871938
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Hearing the govt will not move to the next stage of the NI Protocol Bill as expected next week. Would appear to support speculation the govt is attempting to pressure @duponline into restoring devolution.

    “It’s a non-starter & they know it,” a party source tells me.

    https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1537125314161172480
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,962
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
    Everyone should be held up to scrutiny not making judgements behind anonymity
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,519
    Jonathan said:

    Wife’s surgery cancelled today at last minute to covid. Not enough healthy staff to run theatre. She’s devastated.

    Covid isn’t done.

    So sorry - I do hope she gets a new date soon, and guess she'll be given priority as they'll realise how difficult it is for her.

    The situation in waiting lists is a real scandal, obviously made much worse by Covid but was very bad before that too. It's one of those things that only affect a small minority at any one time, so it doesn't rise up the salience chart like 20p on a box of biscuits, though in reality it's far more upsetting.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,260
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Certainly don't have one at a busy time. These problems will take years and years to fix, so we need to get started. I'd love to see someone knowledgeable write up a thread header on problems within the NHS...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
    Everyone should be held up to scrutiny not making judgements behind anonymity
    Said BigG anonymously.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    Heathener said:

    I hesitate to mention the B word because Leon will come on here later and tell us that we're all plotting to rejoin.

    However, it's clear that part of the problem now is a chronic staff shortage. Who'd have thought that all those nasty foreigners kept the NHS running?

    We're back to basics. This government (a) doesn't do detail and (b) doesn't care about detail and its impact on people. Sector after sector, service after service have reported chronic and crippling staff shortages.

    So this isn't even about Brexit. The government's controlled borders policy is supposed to allow managed migration to fill holes in the labour market. The failure is that it has not been allowed to do so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Holly looking splendid.
    She looks OK
    A muppet
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    Pulpstar said:

    The USA might be in a bad place, but the world still absolubtely LOVES the dollar

    The world doesn't have a choice. It is still the currency with which you buy things like oil.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,923
    edited June 2022

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
    Weren't you moaning a couple of weeks ago about folk who don't live in Wales pronouncing on Welsh goings on?
    It must be hard for you to see independence disappearing into ether but over it is
    Is that like when you predicted Sturgeon was toast after the SNP voted against BJ's brilliant Brexit deal? I always picture you in full Big G tartan regalia when you make your Scotch pronouncements.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Toldya


    ‘At the Labour Communications group on June 8 Ms McMorrin was asked: “Could we ever return to the single market?”

    She replied: “I really hope so.”

    She added: “Customs union and single market at the very least I think, in future.”

    She accepted “there is not really scope for having that conversation at the moment”, but said all that could change if Labour won power.’

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18889986/keir-starmer-ally-labour-government-brexit/

    She’s already been reprimanded. You’re behind.
    But I was right. Again. And here is proof

    I was the first, I believe, to make this pretty obvious extrapolation. As soon as Labour gain power, whoever is leader will come under intense pressure to move much closer to the EU. Single market membership will follow swiftly.

    If it is Keir “second vote” Starmer he will be emotionally inclined to agree - to put it mildly. We will be back in the SM by 2026-7. He could even use the boat crisis as an excuse. “This way we can get the French to co-operate” etc

    No, I don't think so. Certainly a more constructive attitude to our continental and Irish friends, but he is too frit to join the SM or CU.

    He is ahead in the polls and on course for number 10, but his timidity on policy is his achillies heel. Ultimately Starmer needs to say what he wants to change, and what he wants to change it to. At the moment he gives the impression of not knowing his own mind.
    Starmer is an organiser not a leader. A manager not a director. He will take instructions from his peer group, and they will tell him: SM. And he will manage it and organize it

    His intense boringness might actually make it easier to sell
    Very good summary of Starmer.
    Perhaps, but Leon is a journalist and occasional novelist. He clearly knows nothing about leadership and he is wrong; people with strong managerial capability can make great leaders through example. @Leon demonstrates his weakness in commenting on this subject by the fact that he was a major cheerleader for Boris Johnson, a man with no genuine leadership or management skills; something that has been apparent to a lot of us for a long time. Being a show-off or an egotist is not a leadership skill.
    Depends what you think is more important in driving progress. The actions of a handful of Great Men (and occaisonal Women*), or the actions of a larger number of Good (but not Great) People?

    A lot of (gestures around) all this mess started with (self-proclaimed) Great Men feeling thwarted by petty rules that didn't respect their genius. I can't prove it, but I suspect a world of checks and balances makes life better for more people.

    And that's before we even get on to the question of whether our (self-proclaimed) Great Man Leaders actually are Great. I'm not an expert on that, but it seems to me that Greatness is like sex appeal; if you have to go on about having it, you don't have it.

    (* Those who obsess about this sort of thing do seem to think that Greatness is mostly a male trait. See the discussion of intelligence; "Maybe men and women are equally smart on average, maybe the average woman is smarter than the average man. But there are more men in the four sigma tail, and that's what matters...")
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,260

    Jonathan said:

    Wife’s surgery cancelled today at last minute to covid. Not enough healthy staff to run theatre. She’s devastated.

    Covid isn’t done.

    So sorry - I do hope she gets a new date soon, and guess she'll be given priority as they'll realise how difficult it is for her.

    The situation in waiting lists is a real scandal, obviously made much worse by Covid but was very bad before that too. It's one of those things that only affect a small minority at any one time, so it doesn't rise up the salience chart like 20p on a box of biscuits, though in reality it's far more upsetting.
    There are 6m people on the backlog... that's almost double in 2015. Then consider that many of those people will have partners, children... it's easily possible that this is an issue that affects a close relative of the majority of the voting population. I reckon that this could be a big issue at the next election.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,923
    edited June 2022
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
    The anniversary of Jo Cox's murder a great day to be fulminating that folk should be open to the full scrutiny and wrath of the public.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    Scott_xP said:

    Britain *will not* schedule another Rwanda flight before the judicial review next month, Dominic Raab has admitted

    He said that under the HRA the UK has to 'adhere' to ECHR injunctions - it cannot ignore them

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1537346684744871938

    Despite the EURO JUDGES SHAT ON BREXIT headlines, it is worth remembering that the Home Office removed most of the planned deportees due to British court rulings. The EHCR only intervened for the remaining few.

    So I am not surprised they are not planning to attempt more flights. The policy is illegal under UK law.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275

    TimS said:

    Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.

    Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.

    Tuition fees.

    If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
    I knew someone who refused to buy the Observer because they were “disloyal during the Suez Crisis”
    'Disloyal' but, er... right.
    No Ben, it was right we stood up to US interference in our Middle East - a line was drawn in the sand and the US crossed it, hence Suez was the right response.
    Leaving with tail between legs was great result
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,962

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61791151

    Spoiler: he died. This in Tory heartland Cotswolds.

    I don’t know this case specific but the issue is the GP service is useless in too many areas. You need out of hours coverage. Otherwise non urgent cases clog A&E - with results like this (AIUI the delay was caused by the knock on effect of a full A&E delaying unloading)
    No the problem in A and E is not the minor stuff. That can wait in the waiting room, and is a bit tedious, but doesn’t stop ambulances unloading. The problem with the ambulances is that the major bays are full, and often the corridors with trolleys with patients needing admission, but no beds in the hospital.

    The problem in A and E is not the front door (indeed that is why it exists as a department!) but rather the backdoor to the hospital.
    When I attended A&E a couple of months back with broken ribs, which I was told I HAD to have checked because of potential impactive lung damage, there were TWO doctors working in A&E ... with 65 patients waiting, which rose to over 100.

    The wait time went up from 3.5 hours to 4.5 hours and then over 8 hours. At which point I gave up.

    Don't have a medical emergency in Britain.
    Good morning

    Your last sentence sums up the state of the NHS across the UK

    For all the anecdotes from England many similar ones can be referenced from Wales and Scotland, both of which are the responsibility of the Welsh and Scottish governments

    I would just say I do not know the answer to the complexity of the NHS and it's demands
    Brexit's to blame and Scotland didn't vote Brexit. Don't blame the Scots. They're our way out
    Oh dear - we had the same issues in Wales before Brexit and as far as Scotland is concerned they are not going anywhere soon
    Weren't you moaning a couple of weeks ago about folk who don't live in Wales pronouncing on Welsh goings on?
    It must be hard for you to see independence disappearing into ether but over it is
    Is that like when you predicted Sturgeon was toast after the SNP voted against BJ's brilliant Brexit deal? I always picture you in full Big G tartan regalia when you make your Scotch pronouncements.
    My children and grandchildren wear tartan just as any Scot but I do not claim to be entitled to do the same
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Not sure if this has been noticed before:

    DeSantis is now favourite on PredictIt for the Republican nomination, ahead of Trump.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/7053/Who-will-win-the-2024-Republican-presidential-nomination

    Someone tell Trump, he will immediately seek to destroy DeSantis, hopefully undermining them both.
    BF is holding the line. Trump still clear fav.
    As he will be.

    On a slightly related topic, I’m more perturbed that the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court justice doesn’t seem to worry that many PBers who express their concern about the way the States is going….
    The attempt didn't sound as though it was at all close to being successful, and the US has a long record of assassinations of its Presidents.

    Maybe it did represent a qualitative change in the level of political violence, but I don't really see that.
    The qualitative change in political violence in the USA was the Jan 6 attempted coup by a mob incited by the defeated President. There has been no similar event in an established democracy in modern times, yet some US Republicans try to hand wave about it.

    A mere unsuccessful assassination attempt in a country with more guns than people is marginal in comparison. To be deplored, but a whole different order of wrong.

    It beggars belief that the inciter of such violence is the favorite for the Republican nomination again.
    The person who wanted to assassinate Kavanaugh was making a deliberate attempt to change an outcome they didn’t like - if Kavanaugh had been killed, then Roe v Wade would likely stay as a 5-4 decision became a 4-4 one and the status quo held. And, of course, Kavanaugh’s successor would be chosen by Biden and with the Senate still (for now) until Democrat control.

    It was the same motivation as drove people on Jan 6th ie people who wanted to change an outcome they didn’t like. That’s different from historic assassinations, which have not such motivating factors usually.

    I think it quite disturbing that you and @LostPassword seem to be going down the route of “yeah, it’s bad but nothing really to worry about”. I’m not sure you would have had the same reaction if it was a Kagan or Sotomayor targeted to bring about a similar outcome on a hot topic on the opposite side.
    From the reports, it looks as though he may well have been (unlike most nuts with guns) genuinely mentally ill.
    I'd take a very different message from this than do you. This is not large parts of the Democratic Party (encouraged by their leader) attempting to subvert the Democratic process.
    Rather it's an illustration of why the US needs to do something about its gun problem.
    He may well be but there has been little coverage of the attempt. Certainly far less from the national press than you would have expected if it was a Justice of the left.

    I disagree with your main point though. Kavanaugh’s been targeted because he is seen as the one most likely to bend to pressure. It’s why his wife has been sent messages by pro-abortion groups saying we know where your kids go to school and his house details publicised (as they have for the other Justices who want to get rid of RvW).

    It’s a clear attempt to use the threat of violence to sway the Justices’ decision and, in this case, the one seen as the most pliable. The condemnation of what has gone on from the Administration has been tepid. And, of course, good old Chuck Schumer who talked about the Justices reaping what they sow has been quiet.

    Read “Why Nations Fail”. A clear message is that a society declines when both sides feel as though the other side will not play fair when it comes to the question of ruling. If you think this is just a GOP problem, think again.
    The US is in a seriously bad place politically.

    A small minority with extreme opinions on each side are dominating the debate, the polarisation encouraged by media and especially social media. People no longer believe that their mainstream political opponents are good people, and are too quick to assign the bad faith and base motives of the extremists to everyone who disagrees.

    Oh, and we are expecting the Supreme Court verdict on Roe v Wade in the next 24 hours, which is unlikely to help things, to put it mildly. In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    I don’t know how it happens, but everyone involved in US politics needs to take a step back from the brink. The last few years have already seen sporadic political violence, there has to be genuine concern it might escalate further.
    I think that we might well be heading into a period where the tension between the SC and the President/Congress is as severe as it was in the 1930s during Roosevelt's first term. He ultimately had to back off then....
    As indeed did the Supreme Court, which is much less often noted.
    They quietly allowed through most of the New Deal legislation which had been threatened.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,582
    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the LDs are 2% behind at all. I think they're ahead by miles.
    LD propaganda.

    What I was thinking.
    Absolutely standard LD tactics. Done it myself decades ago.
    And it's very effective, because even if you don't believe, a little bit in the back of your mind says "but what if it *is* true?" and just gives you that extra little shove to the ballot box, even if it is pouring rain/baking sunshine.

    And, of course, the number of times it comes in as a "win" where they said it (but it wasn't true) can have a positive impact on other close races where they say it and it *is* true - it motivates people to push that bit harder because they so often win "from that position".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Quite a few Democrats, and legislation in a number of states.

    Here is Ralph Northam (D-VA) as an example.
    “When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physician—more than one physician, by the way—and it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s non-viable. … If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
    They are biased enough without being able to hide behind a mask. Justice should be seen to be done, UK is a big enough shithole without doddery old half gagaa guys running kangaroo courts.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 929
    The local paper poll had them 18% ahead!!!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Sandpit, apparently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936

    Jonathan said:

    Wife’s surgery cancelled today at last minute to covid. Not enough healthy staff to run theatre. She’s devastated.

    Covid isn’t done.

    So sorry - I do hope she gets a new date soon, and guess she'll be given priority as they'll realise how difficult it is for her.

    The situation in waiting lists is a real scandal, obviously made much worse by Covid but was very bad before that too. It's one of those things that only affect a small minority at any one time, so it doesn't rise up the salience chart like 20p on a box of biscuits, though in reality it's far more upsetting.
    2 million isn't so small.
    The total number of patients waiting over 18 weeks for treatment now exceeds 2 million, while the number of patients waiting over one year for treatment stands at almost 300,000. This is 186 times the number waiting over a year pre-pandemic in February 2020.
  • DavidL said:

    A lot of weird things happen on PB but finding my morning thread littered with shields of bustards is definitely up there.

    I caught buses to three of the bustard shield towns yesterday, and I'm going on a bus to a fourth one today.

    I feel like I ought to try to do the other two over the weekend..
    Nice - which ones? Devizes, Warminster and Calne among my favourites.
    Yesterday I had to go to the Job Centre in Devizes from Marlborough, via Avebury (took me six hours to get there, have the meeting and get back, and cost £7.50 which isn't reimbursed. I have to do this every week until I find a job). Today I'm going to my mate's near Amesbury, which means I have to catch the Salisbury bus, to do a couple of days' more gardening before his big birthday party on Friday/Saturday. I think I might be quite weary by Sunday..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Sandpit, apparently.
    That figures
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
    Everyone should be held up to scrutiny not making judgements behind anonymity
    Said BigG anonymously.
    Pseudonymously, please.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Sandpit, apparently.
    Er, no he isn’t!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Why Tory leadership contenders should wield the knife against Boris Johnson
    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/06/tory-leadership-contenders-front-runners-boris-johnson
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,759
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Not sure if this has been noticed before:

    DeSantis is now favourite on PredictIt for the Republican nomination, ahead of Trump.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/7053/Who-will-win-the-2024-Republican-presidential-nomination

    Someone tell Trump, he will immediately seek to destroy DeSantis, hopefully undermining them both.
    BF is holding the line. Trump still clear fav.
    As he will be.

    On a slightly related topic, I’m more perturbed that the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court justice doesn’t seem to worry that many PBers who express their concern about the way the States is going….
    The attempt didn't sound as though it was at all close to being successful, and the US has a long record of assassinations of its Presidents.

    Maybe it did represent a qualitative change in the level of political violence, but I don't really see that.
    The qualitative change in political violence in the USA was the Jan 6 attempted coup by a mob incited by the defeated President. There has been no similar event in an established democracy in modern times, yet some US Republicans try to hand wave about it.

    A mere unsuccessful assassination attempt in a country with more guns than people is marginal in comparison. To be deplored, but a whole different order of wrong.

    It beggars belief that the inciter of such violence is the favorite for the Republican nomination again.
    The person who wanted to assassinate Kavanaugh was making a deliberate attempt to change an outcome they didn’t like - if Kavanaugh had been killed, then Roe v Wade would likely stay as a 5-4 decision became a 4-4 one and the status quo held. And, of course, Kavanaugh’s successor would be chosen by Biden and with the Senate still (for now) until Democrat control.

    It was the same motivation as drove people on Jan 6th ie people who wanted to change an outcome they didn’t like. That’s different from historic assassinations, which have not such motivating factors usually.

    I think it quite disturbing that you and @LostPassword seem to be going down the route of “yeah, it’s bad but nothing really to worry about”. I’m not sure you would have had the same reaction if it was a Kagan or Sotomayor targeted to bring about a similar outcome on a hot topic on the opposite side.
    From the reports, it looks as though he may well have been (unlike most nuts with guns) genuinely mentally ill.
    I'd take a very different message from this than do you. This is not large parts of the Democratic Party (encouraged by their leader) attempting to subvert the Democratic process.
    Rather it's an illustration of why the US needs to do something about its gun problem.
    He may well be but there has been little coverage of the attempt. Certainly far less from the national press than you would have expected if it was a Justice of the left.

    I disagree with your main point though. Kavanaugh’s been targeted because he is seen as the one most likely to bend to pressure. It’s why his wife has been sent messages by pro-abortion groups saying we know where your kids go to school and his house details publicised (as they have for the other Justices who want to get rid of RvW).

    It’s a clear attempt to use the threat of violence to sway the Justices’ decision and, in this case, the one seen as the most pliable. The condemnation of what has gone on from the Administration has been tepid. And, of course, good old Chuck Schumer who talked about the Justices reaping what they sow has been quiet.

    Read “Why Nations Fail”. A clear message is that a society declines when both sides feel as though the other side will not play fair when it comes to the question of ruling. If you think this is just a GOP problem, think again.
    The US is in a seriously bad place politically.

    A small minority with extreme opinions on each side are dominating the debate, the polarisation encouraged by media and especially social media. People no longer believe that their mainstream political opponents are good people, and are too quick to assign the bad faith and base motives of the extremists to everyone who disagrees.

    Oh, and we are expecting the Supreme Court verdict on Roe v Wade in the next 24 hours, which is unlikely to help things, to put it mildly. In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    I don’t know how it happens, but everyone involved in US politics needs to take a step back from the brink. The last few years have already seen sporadic political violence, there has to be genuine concern it might escalate further.
    I think that we might well be heading into a period where the tension between the SC and the President/Congress is as severe as it was in the 1930s during Roosevelt's first term. He ultimately had to back off then but that was an age when deference was much greater. The institutions of the US are much weaker today as Trump demonstrated all too clearly on January 6th.
    I think we end up with a much-weakened Federal government, and a reversal of the accumulation of power to the centre that’s occurred in the past few decades.

    The overturning of RvW will be the start of that process, of delegating especially contentious moral issues back to the States themselves, rather than coming down on one side of an argument.

    The biggest single issue the country needs to grasp, IMHO, is mental health and drugs. There’s millions of young people completely checked out of normal society, aided by social media and both legal and illegal drugs.

    The whole federal political system will break in a couple of months, with the election likely at this point to result is loss of both Houses for the Dems, leaving Biden as a lame duck.
    The consequences of pain killer over prescription is almost beyond belief. Surely one of the worst medical catastrophes in history.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Sandpit, apparently.
    Er, no he isn’t!
    And neither was Northam.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,402
    Scott_xP said:

    Hearing the govt will not move to the next stage of the NI Protocol Bill as expected next week. Would appear to support speculation the govt is attempting to pressure @duponline into restoring devolution.

    “It’s a non-starter & they know it,” a party source tells me.

    https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1537125314161172480

    I think the word you're looking for is 'never'. In capital letters. If spoken, then very loudly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Quite a few Democrats, and legislation in a number of states.

    Here is Ralph Northam (D-VA) as an example.
    “When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physician—more than one physician, by the way—and it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s non-viable. … If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html
    That's not infanticide - by any conventional definition.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,340
    edited June 2022
    I can't help but wonder if Lord Geidt's resignation letter to the PM contains some dynamite. Normally, such letters, and the PM's "thanks for your service" response, are published as a matter of course, but this one is clearly being sat on. Why? Hopefully, Geidt himself will be brave and honourable enough to release it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Interesting. That's a big change.

    Texas gubernatorial race between Abbott and O’Rourke tightens, according to first poll since Uvalde shooting

    A new Quinnipiac University poll shows that Gov. Greg Abbott’s 15-point lead has shrunk to 5 points over Beto O’Rourke as more Texas voters now say gun policies are a top priority.
    https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/poll-abbott-beto-orourke-uvalde/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    YouGov poll: by 49%-39% people now think we were wrong to leave the EU, and by 55%-45% they say they would choose to rejoin if we could do so on the same terms (which of course we could not). https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1537350358544142337
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297

    I can't help but wonder if Lord Geidt's resignation letter to the PM contains some dynamite. Normally, such letters, and the PM's "thanks for your service" response, are published as a matter of course, but this one is clearly being sat on. Why? Hopefully, Geidt himself will be brave and honourable enough to release it.

    So far we know 3 things:-

    1. Lord Geidt was the PM's ethics advisor.
    2. According to Raab he was asked to advise on a "commercially sensitive matter".
    3. The PM has decided not to publish the resignation letter.


    There is an obvious potential explanation which screams out at me from those facts.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,281

    I can't help but wonder if Lord Geidt's resignation letter to the PM contains some dynamite. Normally, such letters, and the PM's "thanks for your service" response, are published as a matter of course, but this one is clearly being sat on. Why? Hopefully, Geidt himself will be brave and honourable enough to release it.

    It probably only contains mild or oblique criticism. Geidt doesn't seem to be the sort of person to use both barrels.

    But Johnson is exceptionally sensitive to criticism and so is sitting on it anyway. This will likely lead to speculation that the letter is explosive enough to bring Johnson down, we will have lots of feverish anticipation, and when the letter eventually becomes public it will be a massive anticlimax.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854

    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

    It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.
    Chilling thing for me is that their are idiot roaming the streets that think judges name should be secret
    It's because there are idiots roaming the streets that they are trying to keep them secret. Why should the judges get pilloried by the Mail and Express and the lunatics who read them just for doing their job?
    The anniversary of Jo Cox's murder a great day to be fulminating that folk should be open to the full scrutiny and wrath of the public.
    and who can forget the pitchfork gangs on the Paulsgrove estate who went looking for a paediatrician to batter because they didn't know the difference between paediatricians and paedophiles.

    It might be a good idea to be open about judges but we'd just need an educated population first
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Black Death's origins pinned down:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/15/mystery-black-death-origins-solved-plague-pandemic
    ...The international team came together to work on the puzzle when Dr Philip Slavin, a historian at the University of Stirling, discovered evidence for a sudden surge in deaths in the late 1330s at two cemeteries near Lake Issyk-Kul in the north of modern-day Kyrgyzstan.

    Among 467 tombstones dated between 1248 and 1345, Slavin traced a huge increase in deaths, with 118 stones dated 1338 or 1339. Inscriptions on some of the tombstones mentioned the cause of death as “mawtānā”, the Syriac language term for “pestilence”...

    ...The investigation then passed over to specialists on ancient DNA, including Krause and Dr Maria Spyrou at the University of Tübingen in Germany. They extracted genetic material from the teeth of seven individuals who were buried at the cemeteries. Three of them contained DNA from Yersinia pestis, the bacterium that causes bubonic plague.

    Full analysis of the bacterium’s genome found that it was a direct ancestor of the strain that caused the Black Death in Europe eight years later and, as a result, was probably the cause of death for more than half the population on the continent in the next decade or so.

    The closest living relative of the strain was now found in rodents in the same region, the scientists said...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,355
    Cyclefree said:

    I can't help but wonder if Lord Geidt's resignation letter to the PM contains some dynamite. Normally, such letters, and the PM's "thanks for your service" response, are published as a matter of course, but this one is clearly being sat on. Why? Hopefully, Geidt himself will be brave and honourable enough to release it.

    So far we know 3 things:-

    1. Lord Geidt was the PM's ethics advisor.
    2. According to Raab he was asked to advise on a "commercially sensitive matter".
    3. The PM has decided not to publish the resignation letter.


    There is an obvious potential explanation which screams out at me from those facts.
    For the thick, please continue.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting. That's a big change.

    Texas gubernatorial race between Abbott and O’Rourke tightens, according to first poll since Uvalde shooting

    A new Quinnipiac University poll shows that Gov. Greg Abbott’s 15-point lead has shrunk to 5 points over Beto O’Rourke as more Texas voters now say gun policies are a top priority.
    https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/poll-abbott-beto-orourke-uvalde/

    The Democrats aren't even holding onto their RGV stronghold in real elections in Texas.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    In the past few weeks there has a range of opinions from politicians on the subject - ranging from miscarriage should be illegal, to infanticide should be legal.

    Who is saying infanticide should be legal?
    Sandpit, apparently.
    That figures

    DavidL said:

    A lot of weird things happen on PB but finding my morning thread littered with shields of bustards is definitely up there.

    I caught buses to three of the bustard shield towns yesterday, and I'm going on a bus to a fourth one today.

    I feel like I ought to try to do the other two over the weekend..
    Nice - which ones? Devizes, Warminster and Calne among my favourites.
    Yesterday I had to go to the Job Centre in Devizes from Marlborough, via Avebury (took me six hours to get there, have the meeting and get back, and cost £7.50 which isn't reimbursed. I have to do this every week until I find a job). Today I'm going to my mate's near Amesbury, which means I have to catch the Salisbury bus, to do a couple of days' more gardening before his big birthday party on Friday/Saturday. I think I might be quite weary by Sunday..
    What happened to the millions of vacancies Bart Simpson and Sandpit are alwayS whining about
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,040
    Electric cars. I thought they were more reliable due to being simpler.

    I've had to cancel a meeting this morning because my visitor's nearly new electric car has gone phut.

    Apparently it has turned itself off and is refusing to play ball - like a lazy corgi.

    It is called a Cupra, which I had never heard of, despite driving a Skoda. This turns out to be an Electric Car brand from Seat. And this is the second time in a year - the first resulting in a large refund.
This discussion has been closed.