I was the first, I believe, to make this pretty obvious extrapolation. As soon as Labour gain power, whoever is leader will come under intense pressure to move much closer to the EU. Single market membership will follow swiftly.
If it is Keir “second vote” Starmer he will be emotionally inclined to agree - to put it mildly. We will be back in the SM by 2026-7. He could even use the boat crisis as an excuse. “This way we can get the French to co-operate” etc
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Tone deaf. Any idea how many Mao was responsible for dying in the great famine?
Whatever the UK's future engagement with the Eurosystem will be, the costs:benefits ratio won't be as good (whatever that means) as Dave's Deal. If we want that much access, the price will be more alignment. If we want that much optout, we will get less access.
But Blue Passports (which we could have had all along, remember) would be an easy bone to throw to British Eurosceptics.
(It would have been an easy thing to keep when passports went floppy in the late 1980s. Heck, for a long time I just had the cheapo low-security British Visitors Passport. Andrew Rosindell's obsession with the evils of the Floppy Pink (yes, he said that) is only one of his absurdities. Spike the Dog was OK, though.)
I was the first, I believe, to make this pretty obvious extrapolation. As soon as Labour gain power, whoever is leader will come under intense pressure to move much closer to the EU. Single market membership will follow swiftly.
If it is Keir “second vote” Starmer he will be emotionally inclined to agree - to put it mildly. We will be back in the SM by 2026-7. He could even use the boat crisis as an excuse. “This way we can get the French to co-operate” etc
We will not be rejoining the EU under Keir
They won’t have us. Can you really imagine Macron signing up to welcome back Britain into the fold.
Ukraine will be a member before us. EFTA is the best we can hope for.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
I remember it up clearly on every bill board seemingly in the land. No to Tuition Fees.
They didn’t have to so meekly cave on that one at the first sight of shiny ministerial car. Did they?
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
Whatever the UK's future engagement with the Eurosystem will be, the costs:benefits ratio won't be as good (whatever that means) as Dave's Deal. If we want that much access, the price will be more alignment. If we want that much optout, we will get less access.
But Blue Passports (which we could have had all along, remember) would be an easy bone to throw to British Eurosceptics.
(It would have been an easy thing to keep when passports went floppy in the late 1980s. Heck, for a long time I just had the cheapo low-security British Visitors Passport. Andrew Rosindell's obsession with the evils of the Floppy Pink (yes, he said that) is only one of his absurdities. Spike the Dog was OK, though.)
Any future engagement will be deemed politically too expensive to undertake.
"Which hospital builds will you cancel to pay for the annual fees, Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition?"
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
I remember it up clearly on every bill board seemingly in the land. No to Tuition Fees.
They didn’t have to so meekly cave on that one at the first sight of shiny ministerial car. Did they?
No ones hands are clean on this. Tuition fees were brought in by New Labour, and massively increased by Cable at the insistence of the Tories.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
It was a failed stunt whatever point he was trying to make. Probably sounded like a good idea to some smart alec spad, but what will most remember? That he was laughed at and began 'Let's quote from Mao...'
McDonnell would have been a much better leader than Corbyn.
Yes, he is a much more measured and calculating speaker, but wouldn't have had the Magic Grandpa following of Corbyn. I think he was the Tribune group candidate in a previous Leadership contest, but didn't make the cut.
It’s important for Starmer to say we’ve moved on, I’ve changed the party, over and over again at every opportunity.
For PMQ watchers, it’s normally Boris who first raises the c word - Starmer had quote from the MPs behind Tory front bench so used it becuase he knew it would rankle his opponent.
It didn’t appear to though. Boris seemed distracted today. “Best employment figures ever, Mr Speaker” seemed to come out whatever the question was.
Yes. Angie was in a short skirt. But as we all have been today in this heat.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?
At least, quite likely 0.5%.
0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense
BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
The US went up by 0.75% today, and signalled further increases.
Either the BoE is serious about inflation or it is not. It will be an interesting test, if they funk it it shows that they are not really independent or following their brief.
Whatever the UK's future engagement with the Eurosystem will be, the costs:benefits ratio won't be as good (whatever that means) as Dave's Deal. If we want that much access, the price will be more alignment. If we want that much optout, we will get less access.
But Blue Passports (which we could have had all along, remember) would be an easy bone to throw to British Eurosceptics.
(It would have been an easy thing to keep when passports went floppy in the late 1980s. Heck, for a long time I just had the cheapo low-security British Visitors Passport. Andrew Rosindell's obsession with the evils of the Floppy Pink (yes, he said that) is only one of his absurdities. Spike the Dog was OK, though.)
Any future engagement will be deemed politically too expensive to undertake.
"Which hospital builds will you cancel to pay for the annual fees, Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition?"
Nah. We aren't ever going back in. Because. They won't have us. Because. There isn't any guarantee we wouldn't bugger off again after the next election. So it won't happen.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
It was the Tories cozying up to the Chinese Communist Party...
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
Honestly I think that's a factor of the group you were with.
The LDs are going to take a lot of votes from the Tories, not Labours.
A lot of 'never Labour' voters will switch to the LDs if they are sufficiently pissed off with the Tories (as many seem to be).
McDonnell would have been a much better leader than Corbyn.
Yes, he is a much more measured and calculating speaker, but wouldn't have had the Magic Grandpa following of Corbyn. I think he was the Tribune group candidate in a previous Leadership contest, but didn't make the cut.
It’s important for Starmer to say we’ve moved on, I’ve changed the party, over and over again at every opportunity.
For PMQ watchers, it’s normally Boris who first raises the c word - Starmer had quote from the MPs behind Tory front bench so used it becuase he knew it would rankle his opponent.
It didn’t appear to though. Boris seemed distracted today. “Best employment figures ever, Mr Speaker” seemed to come out whatever the question was.
Yes. Angie was in a short skirt. But as we all have been today in this heat.
Someone tell Trump, he will immediately seek to destroy DeSantis, hopefully undermining them both.
BF is holding the line. Trump still clear fav.
As he will be.
On a slightly related topic, I’m more perturbed that the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court justice doesn’t seem to worry that many PBers who express their concern about the way the States is going….
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
I remember it up clearly on every bill board seemingly in the land. No to Tuition Fees.
They didn’t have to so meekly cave on that one at the first sight of shiny ministerial car. Did they?
No ones hands are clean on this. Tuition fees were brought in by New Labour, and massively increased by Cable at the insistence of the Tories.
Ironically the Tories seem to have dodged the blame
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
It was the Tories cozying up to the Chinese Communist Party...
So make the point another way. Mao was evil. It demeans to bring his works into the chamber.
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?
At least, quite likely 0.5%.
0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense
BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
The US went up by 0.75% today, and signalled further increases.
Either the BoE is serious about inflation or it is not. It will be an interesting test, if they funk it it shows that they are not really independent or following their brief.
Not sure they can justify only 0.25%. Was reading it might be a three way split. With 2 voting for no increase.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Someone tell Trump, he will immediately seek to destroy DeSantis, hopefully undermining them both.
BF is holding the line. Trump still clear fav.
As he will be.
On a slightly related topic, I’m more perturbed that the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court justice doesn’t seem to worry that many PBers who express their concern about the way the States is going….
The extreme politicisation of the courts in the US is to be deplored, as is our Tabloids attempts to politicise judges here.
1 Tobias Ellwood, most of the remaining pro EEA, rejoin the EU Tory MPs were deselected by Boris in 2019.
If we do rejoin the EEA it will only happen under a Labour led government
Maybe but politics isn't just a short game but a long game as well.
After all, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who took us into the EEC in 1973 and a Conservative Opposition leader who was one of the strongest advocates for us staying in the EEC in 1975.
Yes, a lot has happened since then but fifty years is a blink of an eye in some measures. I follow the adage "never say never" and I could imagine a future Conservative Prime Minister taking us back into Europe if he or she considered it in the national interest so to do.
Not now, not in 10 years but in 20-30 years, who knows?
As a Party loyalist you would of course support the Conservative Prime Minister who took us back into Europe wouldn't you?
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
Honestly I think that's a factor of the group you were with.
The LDs are going to take a lot of votes from the Tories, not Labours.
A lot of 'never Labour' voters will switch to the LDs if they are sufficiently pissed off with the Tories (as many seem to be).
Exactly, the average LD voter now is an upper middle class, high earning, Home Counties Remainer who used to vote Tory. Hence most LD seats are in South West London and the Home Counties and South of England and were held by the Tories in 2015.
It is a completely different demographic to the average LD voter 15 years ago who was a left leaning, anti Iraq War, anti tution few voter who was not keen on Blair, a demographic now largely voting Labour again if not Green
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
Very different times. I refer to the comments re making a favourable reference to the devil...
Do we still think the MPC will come out with 0.25% tomorrow?
At least, quite likely 0.5%.
0.5% would crash the economy. the impact on mortgage owners would be immense
BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
The US went up by 0.75% today, and signalled further increases.
Either the BoE is serious about inflation or it is not. It will be an interesting test, if they funk it it shows that they are not really independent or following their brief.
Not sure they can justify only 0.25%. Was reading it might be a three way split. With 2 voting for no increase.
Using interest rates to curb inflation is an absolutely stupid way to do it, especially as many of the causes of inflation are outside central banks’ control.
One of the biggest problems is the preponderance of economists who think economics is an empirical science when actually it’s a theoretical study (and often wrong).
Arguably, you should impose wealth taxes to hit those who benefitted most from the pandemic bubble while leaving poorer households unimpacted. Fat chance of that.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
It was the Tories cozying up to the Chinese Communist Party...
So make the point another way. Mao was evil. It demeans to bring his works into the chamber.
Calm down turby. What Foxy omitted is Osborne had the last and biggest laugh. As he finished speaking McD tossed the little red book onto Osbornes dispatch box. Ozzy leapt up, made out he looked inside front cover and said “oh look! It’s his own personal signed copy”. Que uproar. Sides literally split on the Tory benches.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
Honestly I think that's a factor of the group you were with.
The LDs are going to take a lot of votes from the Tories, not Labours.
A lot of 'never Labour' voters will switch to the LDs if they are sufficiently pissed off with the Tories (as many seem to be).
Exactly, the average LD voter now is an upper middle class, high earning, Home Counties Remainer who used to vote Tory.
It is a completely different demographic to the average LD voter 15 years ago who was a left leaning, anti Iraq War, anti tution few voter who was not keen on Blair, a demographic now largely voting Labour again if not Green
Not very accurate (apart from the Remainer bit) LD support is thin, but actually surprisingly evenly spread by age, geography and social class. Much more so than either Lab or Tory. Indeed it is that wide but thin support that hurts at FPTP elections.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
I don't agree with turbotubb's complete embargo on jokes involving murderous tyrants, but whenever people make that particular point I don't think it is as cutting as some evidently think it is. It was a rather different time and critical moment, and even afterwards the geopolitical situation was quite different.
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
The photo in the Grauniad;
What the hell is going on with Bozza's hair? Has he had an unfortunate accident with a van der Graaf generator?
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
It was the Tories cozying up to the Chinese Communist Party...
So make the point another way. Mao was evil. It demeans to bring his works into the chamber.
Calm down turby. What Foxy omitted is Osborne had the last and biggest laugh. As he finished speaking McD tossed the little red book onto Osbornes dispatch box. Ozzy leapt up, made out he looked inside front cover and said “oh look! It’s his own personal signed copy”. Que uproar. Sides literally split on the Tory benches.
I’m perfectly calm, but I have a huge problem with people not holding Mao in the same status as Hitler and Stalin. A truly evil, vile mass murderer. The left in particular has a huge bling spot. Read Frank Dikotter’s works. Educate yourself.
1 Tobias Ellwood, most of the remaining pro EEA, rejoin the EU Tory MPs were deselected by Boris in 2019.
If we do rejoin the EEA it will only happen under a Labour led government
Maybe but politics isn't just a short game but a long game as well.
After all, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who took us into the EEC in 1973 and a Conservative Opposition leader who was one of the strongest advocates for us staying in the EEC in 1975.
Yes, a lot has happened since then but fifty years is a blink of an eye in some measures. I follow the adage "never say never" and I could imagine a future Conservative Prime Minister taking us back into Europe if he or she considered it in the national interest so to do.
Not now, not in 10 years but in 20-30 years, who knows?
As a Party loyalist you would of course support the Conservative Prime Minister who took us back into Europe wouldn't you?
Yes, I think it quite possible that at some point the Cons will flip back to the pro-EU position that they held for the half century to 2016.
Over dinner a huge news story breaks - wonky Wonka bars that can kill, seized in Oxford Street 😧
You just never know when the Vermicious Knids will strike.
The resignation thing? Why couldn’t have done that this morning, why wait till dinner? What did he need, Dutch Courage?
Can I ask about the header photo - are those actual Horni folk, or a library picture to indicate what a crowd of Lib Dems could look like? Why do they have a flag with a pigeon on it?
Maggie Thatcher on the LibDem logo:
"I gather that during the last few days there have been some ill-natured jokes about their new symbol, a bird of some kind, adopted by the Liberal Democrats at Blackpool. Politics is a serious business, and one should not lower the tone unduly. So I will say only this of the Liberal Democrat symbol and of the party it symbolises. This is an ex-parrot. It is not merely stunned. It has ceased to be, expired and gone to meet its maker. It is a parrot no more. It has rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is a late parrot. And now for something completely different."
- M. H. Thatcher, 12th Oct 1990.
I remember that. It was embarrassing. It was obviously written for her and she obviously had not a clue about the dead parrot sketch.
She did notlob a grenade of humour into it, certainly.
Actually, belay the "Wiltshire" bit - you can put any county or name at the top!
Don’t blame MoonRabbit, I didn’t have the whole bustard to go on. Top of its head and beady eye looks like a pigeon.
You'd never make a twitcher! The moustache is all you need to nail the ID...
Moustache?
Anyway, back to the serious stuff - you had been anticipating a poll announcement from Libdems, the fact it’s this one makes you think they are on course or do you still have your suspicions Mark?
The Great Bustard is W-A-Y more important than the Libdems!
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
I appreciate his committment to holding a grudge. If people are going to bang on about historical political issues they should go waaaay back.
Whatever the UK's future engagement with the Eurosystem will be, the costs:benefits ratio won't be as good (whatever that means) as Dave's Deal. If we want that much access, the price will be more alignment. If we want that much optout, we will get less access.
But Blue Passports (which we could have had all along, remember) would be an easy bone to throw to British Eurosceptics.
(It would have been an easy thing to keep when passports went floppy in the late 1980s. Heck, for a long time I just had the cheapo low-security British Visitors Passport. Andrew Rosindell's obsession with the evils of the Floppy Pink (yes, he said that) is only one of his absurdities. Spike the Dog was OK, though.)
Any future engagement will be deemed politically too expensive to undertake.
"Which hospital builds will you cancel to pay for the annual fees, Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition?"
None. They'll just borrow it. The British voters don't give a fuck how anything gets paid for.
Over dinner a huge news story breaks - wonky Wonka bars that can kill, seized in Oxford Street 😧
You just never know when the Vermicious Knids will strike.
The resignation thing? Why couldn’t have done that this morning, why wait till dinner? What did he need, Dutch Courage?
Can I ask about the header photo - are those actual Horni folk, or a library picture to indicate what a crowd of Lib Dems could look like? Why do they have a flag with a pigeon on it?
Maggie Thatcher on the LibDem logo:
"I gather that during the last few days there have been some ill-natured jokes about their new symbol, a bird of some kind, adopted by the Liberal Democrats at Blackpool. Politics is a serious business, and one should not lower the tone unduly. So I will say only this of the Liberal Democrat symbol and of the party it symbolises. This is an ex-parrot. It is not merely stunned. It has ceased to be, expired and gone to meet its maker. It is a parrot no more. It has rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is a late parrot. And now for something completely different."
- M. H. Thatcher, 12th Oct 1990.
I remember that. It was embarrassing. It was obviously written for her and she obviously had not a clue about the dead parrot sketch.
She did notlob a grenade of humour into it, certainly.
Actually, belay the "Wiltshire" bit - you can put any county or name at the top!
Don’t blame MoonRabbit, I didn’t have the whole bustard to go on. Top of its head and beady eye looks like a pigeon.
You'd never make a twitcher! The moustache is all you need to nail the ID...
Moustache?
Anyway, back to the serious stuff - you had been anticipating a poll announcement from Libdems, the fact it’s this one makes you think they are on course or do you still have your suspicions Mark?
The Great Bustard is W-A-Y more important than the Libdems!
McDonnell would have been a much better leader than Corbyn.
Yes, he is a much more measured and calculating speaker, but wouldn't have had the Magic Grandpa following of Corbyn. I think he was the Tribune group candidate in a previous Leadership contest, but didn't make the cut.
It’s important for Starmer to say we’ve moved on, I’ve changed the party, over and over again at every opportunity.
For PMQ watchers, it’s normally Boris who first raises the c word - Starmer had quote from the MPs behind Tory front bench so used it becuase he knew it would rankle his opponent.
It didn’t appear to though. Boris seemed distracted today. “Best employment figures ever, Mr Speaker” seemed to come out whatever the question was.
Yes. Angie was in a short skirt. But as we all have been today in this heat.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
I once canvassed someone who said he would never vote liberal for all the damage we had done. This was at a time when Surrey County had always been Tory, the Borough was 100% Tory and pre coalition by some time so no liberal in govt for decades. How had we done damage? I mean gives us a break and give us a chance to completely screw it up like everyone else.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
I remember it up clearly on every bill board seemingly in the land. No to Tuition Fees.
They didn’t have to so meekly cave on that one at the first sight of shiny ministerial car. Did they?
No ones hands are clean on this. Tuition fees were brought in by New Labour, and massively increased by Cable at the insistence of the Tories.
Ironically the Tories seem to have dodged the blame
Perhaps it undercut their rock solid support among those aged 18-22.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
I don't agree with turbotubb's complete embargo on jokes involving murderous tyrants, but whenever people make that particular point I don't think it is as cutting as some evidently think it is. It was a rather different time and critical moment, and even afterwards the geopolitical situation was quite different.
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
So you would be fine with Hitler’s Mein Kampf being brought into the chamber?
Here’s the thing. People on the right see Mao as evil, hence turbo’s comments. So we put Hitler and Mao in the evil category.
However, people on the left seem to have this view of “his heart was in the right place”.
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
The photo in the Grauniad;
What the hell is going on with Bozza's hair? Has he had an unfortunate accident with a van der Graaf generator?
It's performative. Best ignored. The economy's in the toilet and the bloke's a fraud. Focus.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
I don't agree with turbotubb's complete embargo on jokes involving murderous tyrants, but whenever people make that particular point I don't think it is as cutting as some evidently think it is. It was a rather different time and critical moment, and even afterwards the geopolitical situation was quite different.
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
So you would be fine with Hitler’s Mein Kampf being brought into the chamber?
Here’s the thing. People on the right see Mao as evil, hence turbo’s comments. So we put Hitler and Mao in the evil category.
However, people on the left seem to have this view of “his heart was in the right place”.
Such as? I'm on the left and I don't. I've been railing against the PRC since long before it was fashionable. When Osborne.was coming over the profits.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
I don't agree with turbotubb's complete embargo on jokes involving murderous tyrants, but whenever people make that particular point I don't think it is as cutting as some evidently think it is. It was a rather different time and critical moment, and even afterwards the geopolitical situation was quite different.
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
So you would be fine with Hitler’s Mein Kampf being brought into the chamber?
Here’s the thing. People on the right see Mao as evil, hence turbo’s comments. So we put Hitler and Mao in the evil category.
However, people on the left seem to have this view of “his heart was in the right place”.
You've extrapolated rather wildly. I agree that tyrants like Mao and, remarkably, even Stalin somehow get to be seen as more generally acceptable somehow, and that is genuinely strange. You seem to be presuming a political position I don't hold.
I'm just not as viscerally opposed to dark, inappropriate jokes.
I also don't have an issue with an MP bringing up those examples, because if they did they would get pilloried for it. Whilst McDonnell didn't draw shocked gasps he got ridiculed by Osborne for it, the equivalent of a pillorying, and that seems to be the predominant memory most have of the incident.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
Honestly I think that's a factor of the group you were with.
The LDs are going to take a lot of votes from the Tories, not Labours.
A lot of 'never Labour' voters will switch to the LDs if they are sufficiently pissed off with the Tories (as many seem to be).
Exactly, the average LD voter now is an upper middle class, high earning, Home Counties Remainer who used to vote Tory.
It is a completely different demographic to the average LD voter 15 years ago who was a left leaning, anti Iraq War, anti tution few voter who was not keen on Blair, a demographic now largely voting Labour again if not Green
Not very accurate (apart from the Remainer bit) LD support is thin, but actually surprisingly evenly spread by age, geography and social class. Much more so than either Lab or Tory. Indeed it is that wide but thin support that hurts at FPTP elections.
No, the LDs now are the real posh peoples' party.
In 2019 for example the LDs got 12% overall but 20% with those earning over £70,000 a year and 17% with those with at least a degree and 16% with upper middle class ABs.
The LDs also have not a single seat in the Midlands or Wales apart from North Shropshire (which they will likely lose at the next general election as it was a by election win) and only 1 in the North of England and 1 in the South West, expensive Spa town Bath. 3 of their MPs are in the Home Counties and 3 in South West London and the rest in Scotland and it is those regions where their support is now concentrated
Whatever the UK's future engagement with the Eurosystem will be, the costs:benefits ratio won't be as good (whatever that means) as Dave's Deal. If we want that much access, the price will be more alignment. If we want that much optout, we will get less access.
But Blue Passports (which we could have had all along, remember) would be an easy bone to throw to British Eurosceptics.
(It would have been an easy thing to keep when passports went floppy in the late 1980s. Heck, for a long time I just had the cheapo low-security British Visitors Passport. Andrew Rosindell's obsession with the evils of the Floppy Pink (yes, he said that) is only one of his absurdities. Spike the Dog was OK, though.)
Any future engagement will be deemed politically too expensive to undertake.
"Which hospital builds will you cancel to pay for the annual fees, Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition?"
None. They'll just borrow it. The British voters don't give a fuck how anything gets paid for.
I'm somewhat amazed, and pleased, that voters anywhere do. Good for them.
Half an hour into World Tonight. Not a mention of Rwanda or the NIP. Bloody lefties. Now on about the 9 Euro a month national rail travel in Germany. Now there is a radical idea.
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
What the hell is going on with Bozza's hair? Has he had an unfortunate accident with a van der Graaf generator?
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
The photo in the Grauniad;
What the hell is going on with Bozza's hair? Has he had an unfortunate accident with a van der Graaf generator?
Did that happen when The Emperor was in his War Room?
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
Update. Mail and Express going huge on the ECHR angle of what Mail call Rwanda flight fiasco. They also call Dame Deborah Bowel Babe 🫣
As I understand it, the ECHR removed just one person from the flight so hardly grounded it. Going big on throwing a smelly dead red herring on the table I predict will come back as a big problem for the Tories and these papers - they are trying to create a bogeyman here, that isn’t actually the obvious bogeyman that threw the spanner in the works. If you create a bogeyman you create a pressure to deal with that bogeyman, but if you deal with this bogeyman you haven’t actually dealt with the spanner in the works.
Trust me. You will watch it all unwind just like this in the coming days 🙂
1 Tobias Ellwood, most of the remaining pro EEA, rejoin the EU Tory MPs were deselected by Boris in 2019.
If we do rejoin the EEA it will only happen under a Labour led government
Maybe but politics isn't just a short game but a long game as well.
After all, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who took us into the EEC in 1973 and a Conservative Opposition leader who was one of the strongest advocates for us staying in the EEC in 1975.
Yes, a lot has happened since then but fifty years is a blink of an eye in some measures. I follow the adage "never say never" and I could imagine a future Conservative Prime Minister taking us back into Europe if he or she considered it in the national interest so to do.
Not now, not in 10 years but in 20-30 years, who knows?
As a Party loyalist you would of course support the Conservative Prime Minister who took us back into Europe wouldn't you?
Yes, I think it quite possible that at some point the Cons will flip back to the pro-EU position that they held for the half century to 2016.
If I had to guess, in the event that the UK drifts back to an EEA-alike situation, the "pay, obey, not much say" aspect is going to chafe much more for Conservatives than others. But that's a question for the late 2030's.
If the current UK direction does turn out to be a dead end, reversal is just going to have to wait for the Johnson-Gove-Farage-Hannan geneation of politicians to shuffle off. That won't happen quickly, but it will happen, and then anything can happen. Future UK and Future Europe are run by and made of different people to Current UK and Current Europe.
(And the "what about the cost?" aspect is going to be pretty easy to answer. First, the extra admin looks like it swallows up the savings from non-membership. Second, if the UK economy does grow worse than others, we won't be liable to pay much in anyway. Thanks Brexit Backers. Thackers.)
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
I don't agree with turbotubb's complete embargo on jokes involving murderous tyrants, but whenever people make that particular point I don't think it is as cutting as some evidently think it is. It was a rather different time and critical moment, and even afterwards the geopolitical situation was quite different.
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
So you would be fine with Hitler’s Mein Kampf being brought into the chamber?
Here’s the thing. People on the right see Mao as evil, hence turbo’s comments. So we put Hitler and Mao in the evil category.
However, people on the left seem to have this view of “his heart was in the right place”.
You've extrapolated rather wildly. I agree that tyrants like Mao and, remarkably, even Stalin somehow get to be seen as more generally acceptable somehow, and that is genuinely strange. You seem to be presuming a political position I don't hold.
I'm just not as viscerally opposed to dark, inappropriate jokes.
I also don't have an issue with an MP bringing up those examples, because if they did they would get pilloried for it. Whilst McDonnell didn't draw shocked gasps he got ridiculed by Osborne for it, the equivalent of a pillorying, and that seems to be the predominant memory most have of the incident.
One big difference is that Stalin and Mao were our allies, at least for a time, but a rather crucial time, so get some credit for that, even though they didn't intentionally become our allies.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
I knew someone who refused to buy the Observer because they were “disloyal during the Suez Crisis”
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
I appreciate his committment to holding a grudge. If people are going to bang on about historical political issues they should go waaaay back.
1 Tobias Ellwood, most of the remaining pro EEA, rejoin the EU Tory MPs were deselected by Boris in 2019.
If we do rejoin the EEA it will only happen under a Labour led government
Maybe but politics isn't just a short game but a long game as well.
After all, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who took us into the EEC in 1973 and a Conservative Opposition leader who was one of the strongest advocates for us staying in the EEC in 1975.
Yes, a lot has happened since then but fifty years is a blink of an eye in some measures. I follow the adage "never say never" and I could imagine a future Conservative Prime Minister taking us back into Europe if he or she considered it in the national interest so to do.
Not now, not in 10 years but in 20-30 years, who knows?
As a Party loyalist you would of course support the Conservative Prime Minister who took us back into Europe wouldn't you?
If a Tory PM backed a pro EU or more likely EEA policy it would only be after a Labour PM had taken us back into one of them years before and it was again the main party consensus
On the discussions about the justice system - there seems to be a new trend in sentencing to link the severity of the punishment with the severity of the harm caused to the victim, including things like psychological harm. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Is a crime less serious because the victim is a stoic character and wishes to simply get on with their life?
Yes. Sentencing for consequences is a thing. The gulf between sentence for careless driving (fine) and death by careless driving (max 5 years) is immense. With death by careless there can't be any element of intention to do the harm, or intention to drive in a dangerous way. It's the offence we have all committed, but usually don't kill someone. But if you do......
And the 'death by' offence is new. It used not to exist. It is part of the new mindset. Understandable but wrong.
Its totally immoral and the result of the poor standard of politicians we have endured for several decades. A chance outcome should not affect sentencing. The sentence should be based on the offence and the motivation of the perpetrator. Some things like using a mobile while driving or drunken driving should be punished more severely no matter what the outcome but the "death by careless driving" offence and similar are a disgrace and should be dome away with.
The thing that boils my piss.
The government and society rightly condemns people who drive whilst they hold a mobile in their hand, but driving with a burning tobacco in your hand is fine.
Meanwhile, why is pressing buttons on a phone screen worse than pressing buttons on a built in "infotainment" screen?
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
Update. Mail and Express going huge on the ECHR angle of what Mail call Rwanda flight fiasco. They also call Dame Deborah Bowel Babe 🫣
As I understand it, the ECHR removed just one person from the flight so hardly grounded it. Going big on throwing a smelly dead red herring on the table I predict will come back as a big problem for the Tories and these papers - they are trying to create a bogeyman here, that isn’t actually the obvious bogeyman that threw the spanner in the works. If you create a bogeyman you create a pressure to deal with that bogeyman, but if you deal with this bogeyman you haven’t actually dealt with the spanner in the works.
Trust me. You will watch it all unwind just like this in the coming days 🙂
Nothing matters as long as certain segment of voters remain talking in focus groups about "our brexit", "rwanda", "bloody europe telling us what to do", "unelected lawyers" and so forth.
My advice to Starmer is use their strength as a weakness.
Go nuclear. "I'm a lawyer, I have spent my whole life in the law and the EHRC could be better, so let's bring plans forward to change it". Feck it. Call Raab's bluff and watch the mess.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
Do you feel the same about Stalin being used in a joke by Cable?
Yes
What about Churchill speaking positively of Stalin?
I don't agree with turbotubb's complete embargo on jokes involving murderous tyrants, but whenever people make that particular point I don't think it is as cutting as some evidently think it is. It was a rather different time and critical moment, and even afterwards the geopolitical situation was quite different.
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
So you would be fine with Hitler’s Mein Kampf being brought into the chamber?
Here’s the thing. People on the right see Mao as evil, hence turbo’s comments. So we put Hitler and Mao in the evil category.
However, people on the left seem to have this view of “his heart was in the right place”.
You've extrapolated rather wildly. I agree that tyrants like Mao and, remarkably, even Stalin somehow get to be seen as more generally acceptable somehow, and that is genuinely strange. You seem to be presuming a political position I don't hold.
I'm just not as viscerally opposed to dark, inappropriate jokes.
I also don't have an issue with an MP bringing up those examples, because if they did they would get pilloried for it. Whilst McDonnell didn't draw shocked gasps he got ridiculed by Osborne for it, the equivalent of a pillorying, and that seems to be the predominant memory most have of the incident.
One big difference is that Stalin and Mao were our allies, at least for a time, but a rather crucial time, so get some credit for that, even though they didn't intentionally become our allies.
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
During a committee appearance on Tuesday, Lord Geidt admitted he is an “asset of the PM” rather than enjoying full independence.
Speaking before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), Lord Geidt was questioned on whether there was any point to his role as “Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code”, given the Prime Minister still retains the power to block investigations.
Lord Geidt’s role is directly appointed by the Prime Minister, who retains the sole power to judge whether the rules have been broken and impose sanctions.
Labour MP John McDonnell suggested Lord Geidt’s role was “little more than a tin of whitewash.”
So the biggest scalp of this parliament is taken by a discredited Corbynista. Maybe Starmer and Labour's front bench should up their game, unless it really is true they want to cement Boris in place, which I doubt.
Sorry, not for me. Bringing Maos little red book into Parliament was a red flag. Mao was a mass murderer on the scale of Stalin and Hitler, and he thought it right to bring his book into the House of Commons? Why does the left have such a blind spot?
Edit messed up quotes somehow...
He brought it in to make the point Cameron and Osborne were too much in bed with the Chinese for this country’s good. That they, ahem, had a blind spot to how deep they were getting us in with the Chinese.
Only time labour have had a positive nod from my mum, when they made that point.
Yes, this is what happened:
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
There it is again. You think it appropriate to use Mao even as a joke? It’s abhorrent.
It was the Tories cozying up to the Chinese Communist Party...
So make the point another way. Mao was evil. It demeans to bring his works into the chamber.
Calm down turby. What Foxy omitted is Osborne had the last and biggest laugh. As he finished speaking McD tossed the little red book onto Osbornes dispatch box. Ozzy leapt up, made out he looked inside front cover and said “oh look! It’s his own personal signed copy”. Que uproar. Sides literally split on the Tory benches.
Dinner this evening with my fellow metropolitan remainer clients and colleagues, and spent about an hour defending the Lib Dems against jibes about…tuition fees.
Yes that’s right. One policy enacted a decade ago which, despite all the somewhat murkier water that has passed under the British political bridge since, despite Boris, and Brexit, and Rwanda, and Corbyn wanting to send Novichok samples to Russia for testing, or McDonnell bringing the little red book to the Commons, seems to remain the Pavlovian reflex whenever I mention I’m a Lib Dem.
Tuition fees.
If it's any consolation, I once canvassed an old boy in the 1980s who wouldn't vote for the Liberals because, and I quote, "They were responsible for the First World War"!
I knew someone who refused to buy the Observer because they were “disloyal during the Suez Crisis”
1 Tobias Ellwood, most of the remaining pro EEA, rejoin the EU Tory MPs were deselected by Boris in 2019.
If we do rejoin the EEA it will only happen under a Labour led government
Maybe but politics isn't just a short game but a long game as well.
After all, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who took us into the EEC in 1973 and a Conservative Opposition leader who was one of the strongest advocates for us staying in the EEC in 1975.
Yes, a lot has happened since then but fifty years is a blink of an eye in some measures. I follow the adage "never say never" and I could imagine a future Conservative Prime Minister taking us back into Europe if he or she considered it in the national interest so to do.
Not now, not in 10 years but in 20-30 years, who knows?
As a Party loyalist you would of course support the Conservative Prime Minister who took us back into Europe wouldn't you?
Yes, I think it quite possible that at some point the Cons will flip back to the pro-EU position that they held for the half century to 2016.
If I had to guess, in the event that the UK drifts back to an EEA-alike situation, the "pay, obey, not much say" aspect is going to chafe much more for Conservatives than others. But that's a question for the late 2030's.
If the current UK direction does turn out to be a dead end, reversal is just going to have to wait for the Johnson-Gove-Farage-Hannan geneation of politicians to shuffle off. That won't happen quickly, but it will happen, and then anything can happen. Future UK and Future Europe are run by and made of different people to Current UK and Current Europe.
(And the "what about the cost?" aspect is going to be pretty easy to answer. First, the extra admin looks like it swallows up the savings from non-membership. Second, if the UK economy does grow worse than others, we won't be liable to pay much in anyway. Thanks Brexit Backers. Thackers.)
Ultimately the Conservative Party will return to being the party of rich business people, and then that money talks.
Sure there has always been a Pooterish nationalistic element to Conservatism, but in the end it is about making money and keeping hold of it. That will be the pull back into Europe.
My advice to Starmer is use their strength as a weakness.
Go nuclear. "I'm a lawyer, I have spent my whole life in the law and the EHRC could be better, so let's bring plans forward to change it". Feck it. Call Raab's bluff and watch the mess.
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
Update. Mail and Express going huge on the ECHR angle of what Mail call Rwanda flight fiasco. They also call Dame Deborah Bowel Babe 🫣
As I understand it, the ECHR removed just one person from the flight so hardly grounded it. Going big on throwing a smelly dead red herring on the table I predict will come back as a big problem for the Tories and these papers - they are trying to create a bogeyman here, that isn’t actually the obvious bogeyman that threw the spanner in the works. If you create a bogeyman you create a pressure to deal with that bogeyman, but if you deal with this bogeyman you haven’t actually dealt with the spanner in the works.
Trust me. You will watch it all unwind just like this in the coming days 🙂
Nothing matters as long as certain segment of voters remain talking in focus groups about "our brexit", "rwanda", "bloody europe telling us what to do", "unelected lawyers" and so forth.
My advice to Starmer is use their strength as a weakness.
Go nuclear. "I'm a lawyer, I have spent my whole life in the law and the EHRC could be better, so let's bring plans forward to change it". Feck it. Call Raab's bluff and watch the mess.
Nah. Ignore. The PM is a fraud and the economy is in the toilet. Focus. Eyes on the prize.
Was interested to see a summary of Private Members' Bills being introduced. Sadly, it looks like they all take the process seriously and there are no obviously batsh*t ones (though I am curious why Christina Rees MP picked Shark Fins), though the devil may be in the details and no doubt some would be no good or entirely ineffective.
reversal is just going to have to wait for the Johnson-Gove-Farage-Hannan geneation of politicians to shuffle off. That won't happen quickly
I think it might be very rapid.
When BoZo goes his entire band of sycophants will never get another Government gig
The Red wall is gone. The Blue wall is gone.
Everybody will want to move on from the King...
No evidence that the blue wall has gone. We have polling in mid term and by elections. Starmer has yet to generate a compelling ‘vote for me’ message, other than ‘I’m not Johnson’. If the blue wall is to go, he needs to make southern right of centre voters think he is on their side. He’s not done that yet. Has he campaigned in T &H yet?
Lord Geidt is just another idiot who allowed himself to be used by Boris.
He compromised himself almost immediately with wallpaper gate, lapsed into circumlocutory nonsense over partygate, and now leaves with his reputation in tatters.
Harsh but pretty fair - if he was unhappy with how things were going down he's left it way too late to say so now.
Why did he leave it until now, rather than striking when the 148 were making their objections known
The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters
To think he could have been the trigger to Boris's resignation/ loss of office
“The news is dominated by Rwanda and the rail strikes and I doubt the resignation of civil servant will register amongst ordinary voters‘
As for news dominated by rail strike and Rwanda, The papers are appearing now, Lord Geet front page of aye and eff tea the only two so far
Now the Metro, the only way is ethics
The Mirror refuse to put it on the front, and they are the paper at heart of Britain
Update - telegraph and gruniad big splash on former ethics chief pouring big bucket of pressure over Boris head.
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
Update. Mail and Express going huge on the ECHR angle of what Mail call Rwanda flight fiasco. They also call Dame Deborah Bowel Babe 🫣
As I understand it, the ECHR removed just one person from the flight so hardly grounded it. Going big on throwing a smelly dead red herring on the table I predict will come back as a big problem for the Tories and these papers - they are trying to create a bogeyman here, that isn’t actually the obvious bogeyman that threw the spanner in the works. If you create a bogeyman you create a pressure to deal with that bogeyman, but if you deal with this bogeyman you haven’t actually dealt with the spanner in the works.
Trust me. You will watch it all unwind just like this in the coming days 🙂
Update. The independent has gone huge on the Rwanda story - but from a different angle. “Forced to the floor of the plane, a knee to his head - zoran was told he would be taken to Rwanda no matter what. The 25 year old asylum seeker was strapped into a restraining harness like a dog.”
Personally I don’t believe it. If any of that was really true every paper would cover it, inlcluding the mail - and this government would fall in a week.
The star is out, its not weather, they’ve gone biblical on a pill that replaces going to the gym? 🤷♀️
Comments
https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1537178630278742018
Whatever the UK's future engagement with the Eurosystem will be, the costs:benefits ratio won't be as good (whatever that means) as Dave's Deal. If we want that much access, the price will be more alignment. If we want that much optout, we will get less access.
But Blue Passports (which we could have had all along, remember) would be an easy bone to throw to British Eurosceptics.
(It would have been an easy thing to keep when passports went floppy in the late 1980s. Heck, for a long time I just had the cheapo low-security British Visitors Passport. Andrew Rosindell's obsession with the evils of the Floppy Pink (yes, he said that) is only one of his absurdities. Spike the Dog was OK, though.)
Ukraine will be a member before us. EFTA is the best we can hope for.
They didn’t have to so meekly cave on that one at the first sight of shiny ministerial car. Did they?
"“To assist comrade Osborne about dealing with his newfound comrades, I have brought him along Mao’s Little Red Book,” he said.
McDonnell then was forced to pause, amid laughter from the Conservative benches.
After the Speaker restored order, McDonnell said: “Let’s quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber. The quote is this: ‘We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously, but we must not pretend to know what we do not know.’
“I thought it would come in handy for him in his new relationship,” he added."
I am old enough to remember how cosy the Conservative government was with President XI, and Putin as well.
Give us numbers. As a fraction of 359 if you would.
"Which hospital builds will you cancel to pay for the annual fees, Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition?"
If we do rejoin the EEA it will only happen under a Labour led government
BoE has been quietly rowing back on its language on interest rates
Point and laugh at Scott_P again.....
For PMQ watchers, it’s normally Boris who first raises the c word - Starmer had quote from the MPs behind Tory front bench so used it becuase he knew it would rankle his opponent.
It didn’t appear to though. Boris seemed distracted today. “Best employment figures ever, Mr Speaker” seemed to come out whatever the question was.
Yes. Angie was in a short skirt. But as we all have been today in this heat.
Either the BoE is serious about inflation or it is not. It will be an interesting test, if they funk it it shows that they are not really independent or following their brief.
We aren't ever going back in.
Because. They won't have us.
Because. There isn't any guarantee we wouldn't bugger off again after the next election.
So it won't happen.
The LDs are going to take a lot of votes from the Tories, not Labours.
A lot of 'never Labour' voters will switch to the LDs if they are sufficiently pissed off with the Tories (as many seem to be).
And if it's a Tory PM, you will be cheering them on
On a slightly related topic, I’m more perturbed that the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court justice doesn’t seem to worry that many PBers who express their concern about the way the States is going….
Where’s the Rwanda story and rail strike story gone, not playing at all so far, though we have mail and express still to come.
Star will have weather and the UKs ice cube shortage. Due to aliens.
After all, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who took us into the EEC in 1973 and a Conservative Opposition leader who was one of the strongest advocates for us staying in the EEC in 1975.
Yes, a lot has happened since then but fifty years is a blink of an eye in some measures. I follow the adage "never say never" and I could imagine a future Conservative Prime Minister taking us back into Europe if he or she considered it in the national interest so to do.
Not now, not in 10 years but in 20-30 years, who knows?
As a Party loyalist you would of course support the Conservative Prime Minister who took us back into Europe wouldn't you?
It is a completely different demographic to the average LD voter 15 years ago who was a left leaning, anti Iraq War, anti tution few voter who was not keen on Blair, a demographic now largely voting Labour again if not Green
One of the biggest problems is the preponderance of economists who think economics is an empirical science when actually it’s a theoretical study (and often wrong).
Arguably, you should impose wealth taxes to hit those who benefitted most from the pandemic bubble while leaving poorer households unimpacted. Fat chance of that.
Next on to...interest rates and inflation.
“Well, yes and no,”
“What do you mean?”
“I’ve just resigned.” https://twitter.com/dimwittedly/status/1537181219686961156/photo/1
There's lots of things people might have said that once might have made sense, even if not worthy of approval, which doesn't speak to now.
What the hell is going on with Bozza's hair? Has he had an unfortunate accident with a van der Graaf generator?
It escaped from a Chinese lab apparently.
Here’s the thing. People on the right see Mao as evil, hence turbo’s comments. So we put Hitler and Mao in the evil category.
However, people on the left seem to have this view of “his heart was in the right place”.
Best ignored.
The economy's in the toilet and the bloke's a fraud. Focus.
I've been railing against the PRC since long before it was fashionable.
When Osborne.was coming over the profits.
I'm just not as viscerally opposed to dark, inappropriate jokes.
I also don't have an issue with an MP bringing up those examples, because if they did they would get pilloried for it. Whilst McDonnell didn't draw shocked gasps he got ridiculed by Osborne for it, the equivalent of a pillorying, and that seems to be the predominant memory most have of the incident.
In 2019 for example the LDs got 12% overall but 20% with those earning over £70,000 a year and 17% with those with at least a degree and 16% with upper middle class ABs.
The LDs also have not a single seat in the Midlands or Wales apart from North Shropshire (which they will likely lose at the next general election as it was a by election win) and only 1 in the North of England and 1 in the South West, expensive Spa town Bath. 3 of their MPs are in the Home Counties and 3 in South West London and the rest in Scotland and it is those regions where their support is now concentrated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election
Not a mention of Rwanda or the NIP. Bloody lefties.
Now on about the 9 Euro a month national rail travel in Germany.
Now there is a radical idea.
He's going well beyond the nuanced approach of Johnson and isn't making a distinction between sexual orientation and gender identity.
https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1537179824388644864
As I understand it, the ECHR removed just one person from the flight so hardly grounded it. Going big on throwing a smelly dead red herring on the table I predict will come back as a big problem for the Tories and these papers - they are trying to create a bogeyman here, that isn’t actually the obvious bogeyman that threw the spanner in the works. If you create a bogeyman you create a pressure to deal with that bogeyman, but if you deal with this bogeyman you haven’t actually dealt with the spanner in the works.
Trust me. You will watch it all unwind just like this in the coming days 🙂
If the current UK direction does turn out to be a dead end, reversal is just going to have to wait for the Johnson-Gove-Farage-Hannan geneation of politicians to shuffle off. That won't happen quickly, but it will happen, and then anything can happen. Future UK and Future Europe are run by and made of different people to Current UK and Current Europe.
(And the "what about the cost?" aspect is going to be pretty easy to answer. First, the extra admin looks like it swallows up the savings from non-membership. Second, if the UK economy does grow worse than others, we won't be liable to pay much in anyway. Thanks Brexit Backers. Thackers.)
When BoZo goes his entire band of sycophants will never get another Government gig
The Red wall is gone. The Blue wall is gone.
Everybody will want to move on from the King...
Boris Johnson?
If you mean "nuanced" as "What is beneficial to Boris Johnson".
That isn't in the dictionary as yet.
My advice to Starmer is use their strength as a weakness.
Go nuclear. "I'm a lawyer, I have spent my whole life in the law and the EHRC could be better, so let's bring plans forward to change it". Feck it. Call Raab's bluff and watch the mess.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1511711728702308357
Consider yourself firmly told off, young lady.
Sure there has always been a Pooterish nationalistic element to Conservatism, but in the end it is about making money and keeping hold of it. That will be the pull back into Europe.
#ECHR https://twitter.com/BelfastAgmt/status/1536844343922896900/video/1
The PM is a fraud and the economy is in the toilet. Focus. Eyes on the prize.
https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/from-maternity-rights-to-terminal-illness-support-the-house-guide-to-2022-private-members-bills
Personally I don’t believe it. If any of that was really true every paper would cover it, inlcluding the mail - and this government would fall in a week.
The star is out, its not weather, they’ve gone biblical on a pill that replaces going to the gym? 🤷♀️
Next.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1537188940431638528