The LDs claim to be just 2% behind in Tiverton & Honiton – politicalbetting.com

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The LDs claim to be just 2% behind in Tiverton & Honiton – politicalbetting.com

The LDs in the Devon by-election have issued internal polling based on thousands of separate contacts with voters in the constituency which they claim has them just 2% behind the Tories. This has the Tories on 46% with the LDs on 44%.

Read the full story here

Omnium

First. LDs seem to have magical by-election powers and their shoelaces tied together elsewhere.

Applicant

MRDA.

CorrectHorseBattery

The Tories ought to lose this seat. It's classic Blue Wall.

But I am not confident.

biggles

I just can’t picture that sort of gap. Have the LibDems offered any visual aids?

IshmaelZ

Uncanny how these polls consistently understate the LD position. Quite uncanny.

I am only surprised not to see some kind of abstract, graphic representation of the respective vote shares.

dixiedean

Applicant said:

MRDA.

Gave you a like. After going through this list and figuring it out.

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MRDA

Not Missouri Round Dance Association.

Applicant

biggles said:

I just can’t picture that sort of gap. Have the LibDems offered any visual aids?

Looks like we will have to make do with more primitive visual aids.

As they say in the ed biz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA

AugustusCarp2

biggles said:

I just can’t picture that sort of gap. Have the LibDems offered any visual aids?

Or perhaps some binary equine sporting imagery....

CorrectHorseBattery

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

kjh

Lol. The LDs would claim they were only 2% behind if their internal polling showed them to be 80% ahead. Classic by election tactics.

eek

Didn't the Lib Dems claim to be 2% behind 1 week before the Chesham and Amersham byelection?

Edit - no it was 4% 2 days before https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/06/15/city-am-reporting-that-internal-ld-polling-has-the-party-4-behind-in-chesham-and-amersham/

TheScreamingEagles

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

algarkirk

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

IshmaelZ

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

Benpointer

dixiedean said:

Applicant said:

MRDA.

Gave you a like. After going through this list and figuring it out.

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MRDA

Not Missouri Round Dance Association.

Deleted - oops

TheScreamingEagles

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

I forgot the most important element of his crime. He's openly gay and an ex Olympic fencer.

Benpointer

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

bigjohnowls

Starmer's spokesman has declined to say whether Labour would cancel the Rwanda policy if in government, though deeply critical of the policy's cost and efficiency. But declines to clarify if Starmer believes it is morally wrong.

Stuartinromford

Is there anyone who the Lib Dems are saying don't have a chance of victory?

It would be helpful to know.

wooliedyed

Election Maps UK has tweeted this out like it was an actual properly done poll. Fool.

geoffw

bigjohnowls said:

Starmer's spokesman has declined to say whether Labour would cancel the Rwanda policy if in government, though deeply critical of the policy's cost and efficiency. But declines to clarify if Starmer believes it is morally wrong.

Doesn't that imply he'd try to make it work more effectively?

Omnium

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

I find that the identity of the judge not being a matter of public record far more chilling.

Nigel_Foremain

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

biggles

TheScreamingEagles said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

I forgot the most important element of his crime. He's openly gay and an ex Olympic fencer.

Sounds like he’d have excellent stories after a few beers. There’s some bios that just make you want to meet someone.

wooliedyed

Stuartinromford said:

Is there anyone who the Lib Dems are saying don't have a chance of victory?

It would be helpful to know.

Im more interested in knowing who can win here. Especially if its a single candidate that alone has a chance against the incumbant party. I'd like it expressed visually, but inaccurately, and be based on some gross assumptions.

Alphabet_Soup

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

ThePoliticalParty

Hornytown always seems an LD sort of place to me

Applicant

Nigel_Foremain said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

True enough - but there's a world of difference between "low profile" and "secret".

IshmaelZ

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

I can only work with the material in front of me

CorrectHorseBattery

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

It is incredibly depressing how many upvotes this post got. We are advocating abusing judges.

Benpointer

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

rottenborough

Excellent...

LBC
@LBC
·
4h
James O'Brien wonders why graffitiing a Winston Churchill statue is a 'capital offence' while torching his legacy is 'close to government policy'.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537042992086896640

AugustusCarp2

Nigel_Foremain said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

The anonymity and impersonal nature of justice should be one of its strengths. It's one of the reasons I have concerns about Restorative Justice generally, and today's idea about constantly informing victims of crime about the progress through the penal system of the perpetrator of the crime. It introduces too much "personality" and individuality into what should be a neutral process - all it will do is expand the possibility of long-held grudges and vendettas, rather than society drawing a line under the matter.

CorrectHorseBattery

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

I find myself agreeing with you more than people on my own side, what on Earth has happened to politics?

Luckyguy1983

Benpointer said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

For that, you should be de-fence-strated.

Ah, my coat.

Omnium

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

It is incredibly depressing how many upvotes this post got. We are advocating abusing judges.

Nonsense. Judges do their job and they wlll be defended in that by all of us. Justice must be a matter of record.

turbotubbs

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

wooliedyed

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

IshmaelZ

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

HYUFD

No surprise from the LD by election team to say it is close ahead of a final push. Though I think Tiverton and Honiton is one at the moment

Applicant

IshmaelZ said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it.

"if"...

HYUFD

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The Tories ought to lose this seat. It's classic Blue Wall.

But I am not confident.

It isn't really classic blue wall ie a Tory Remain seat, Tiverton and Honiton was 57% Leave

Nigel_Foremain

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

For that, you should be de-fence-strated.

Ah, my coat.

That may need to be put to a PANEL of judges, or anyone who holds an appropriate POST

Applicant

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

For that, you should be de-fence-strated.

Ah, my coat.

That may need to be put to a PANEL of judges, or anyone who holds an appropriate POST

It'll be a whitewash.

algarkirk

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

It is incredibly depressing how many upvotes this post got. We are advocating abusing judges.

Nice try but 100% misreading of the post.

turbotubbs

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Nail bite no more...

Applicant

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Hants beat Yorks by 2 wickets, and I believe that sends them top.

(Edit: no, 3 pts behind Surrey. I must have miscounted...)

turbotubbs

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Nail bite no more...

Fancy Hampshire for the championship this year. You heard it here first.

kle4

Many thanks to cyclefree for the last header. Clear and to the point, in particular addressing the oft utilised 'you have no alternative plan' riposte.

algarkirk

IshmaelZ said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

No. She is doing a Boris - courting popularity and keeping the show on the road by promising the impossible, so that she can blame the judicial 'enemies of the people' for failing to fulfil what does not lie within her powers anyway.

kle4

Applicant said:

IshmaelZ said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it.

"if"...

There's no real downside for her government. Either it gets it, or it gets a row about it, which it would welcome, much as the UK government is loving all this Rwanda stuff.

wooliedyed

ComRes puts us very firmly in mid single figures lead
Tories perhaps off their base level and crawling back towards mid 30s?

biggles

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

I can only work with the material in front of me

The material is pine usually I think, isn’t it?

Benpointer

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

For that, you should be de-fence-strated.

Ah, my coat.

That may need to be put to a PANEL of judges, or anyone who holds an appropriate POST

Far be it from me to criticise your post and rail against it...

kle4

Nigel_Foremain said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

When people overreact so much to rulings made against them (even when it is the result of poorly drafted legislation) to the point of wanting to junk entire principles and institutions, it is in the first place a very bad sign, but also generally shows claims to historical principle are, let's say, misplaced.

biggles

wooliedyed said:

ComRes puts us very firmly in mid single figures lead
Tories perhaps off their base level and crawling back towards mid 30s?

I would be interested to know how much of the movements within each series of polls is undecided “former” Tories “coming home”.

MrEd

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

dixiedean

Applicant said:

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Hants beat Yorks by 2 wickets, and I believe that sends them top.

(Edit: no, 3 pts behind Surrey. I must have miscounted...)

Big Lanky run chase on to make it three way.

Sunil_Prasannan

Just 2% BEHIND?

LibDems LOSING here?

CorrectHorseBattery

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

It is incredibly depressing how many upvotes this post got. We are advocating abusing judges.

Nice try but 100% misreading of the post.

Do you think the Mail want anything other than abuse of this person? You are honest and I can trust in what you're saying but you're amongst very bad company here.

geoffw

 

biggles said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

I can only work with the material in front of me

The material is pine usually I think, isn’t it?

Pine is not elm.

(Nerdish joke from the 90s)

MrEd

kle4 said:

Applicant said:

IshmaelZ said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it.

"if"...

There's no real downside for her government. Either it gets it, or it gets a row about it, which it would welcome, much as the UK government is loving all this Rwanda stuff.

Exactly. Tossing the base some red meat. Which is fair enough.

MrEd

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Nail bite no more...

Fancy Hampshire for the championship this year. You heard it here first.

Cheers for the tip

CatMan

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

For that, you should be de-fence-strated.

Ah, my coat.

That may need to be put to a PANEL of judges, or anyone who holds an appropriate POST

Far be it from me to criticise your post and rail against it...

Maybe just stop horsing around?

wooliedyed

biggles said:

wooliedyed said:

ComRes puts us very firmly in mid single figures lead
Tories perhaps off their base level and crawling back towards mid 30s?

I would be interested to know how much of the movements within each series of polls is undecided “former” Tories “coming home”.

Most movement to Tory will be, they arent attractung new boys!

Sunil_Prasannan

MrEd said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

No Tory poll leads for SIX MONTHS and 9 DAYS - @MrEd please explain!
@HYUFD please explain!
@bigjohnowls please explain!

Applicant

dixiedean said:

Applicant said:

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Hants beat Yorks by 2 wickets, and I believe that sends them top.

(Edit: no, 3 pts behind Surrey. I must have miscounted...)

Big Lanky run chase on to make it three way.

28 needed off 9, five wickets left. Should be very comfortable.

Applicant

geoffw said:

 

biggles said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

I can only work with the material in front of me

The material is pine usually I think, isn’t it?

Pine is not elm.

(Nerdish joke from the 90s)

GNU's not Unix.

kle4

AugustusCarp2 said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

The anonymity and impersonal nature of justice should be one of its strengths. It's one of the reasons I have concerns about Restorative Justice generally, and today's idea about constantly informing victims of crime about the progress through the penal system of the perpetrator of the crime. It introduces too much "personality" and individuality into what should be a neutral process - all it will do is expand the possibility of long-held grudges and vendettas, rather than society drawing a line under the matter.

I think it was in one of the Secret Barrister's books, unpopular though they will be in many quarters for their various polemics, where they talked about there being too much emphasis on victims. They can sound harsh and cold, but people can take it too far, if for instance they think taking cases with little prospect of success to court because victims deserve a day in court as an example. Or in effect giving grieving family groups veto power over composition of public inquiries, when I would argue I have little idea what would make for a good inquiry member, particularly if I have already made up my mind abotu who is responsible. It can seem weird, but once it is a matter of public justice the wishes of the individual might be relevant, but not primary.

Sunil_Prasannan

On topic - what @Cyclefree said!

bigjohnowls

MrEd said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

Quite a good result for Lab although any other leader would be 20 points ahead obvs.

Sunil_Prasannan

bigjohnowls said:

MrEd said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

Quite a good result for Lab although any other leader would be 20 points ahead obvs.

No Tory poll leads for SIX MONTHS and 9 DAYS - @MrEd please explain!
@HYUFD please explain!
@bigjohnowls please explain!

fitalass

Applicant said:

IshmaelZ said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it.

"if"...

All Nicola Sturgeon announced yesterday was her intention to continue to keep talking about promising a second Referendum next year, its become an annual event to keep the SNP membership from getting too restless... I suspect yesterday's Independence PR stunt inside and outside Holyrood was more about launching Angus Robertson's leadership campaign to succeed her, and I predict that there is now more chance of Nicola Sturgeon standing down than an Indy Ref happening next year.

MoonRabbit

IshmaelZ said:

Uncanny how these polls consistently understate the LD position. Quite uncanny.

I am only surprised not to see some kind of abstract, graphic representation of the respective vote shares.

It probably shouldn’t be called a poll. What do you think of when you hear that, proper and regulated poll or a gut feel from a party that is basically a lie from its spin team to get the vote out.

We had this discussion with MarqueeMark the other day, the conclusion being the libdems saying just two behind any day now was inevitable.

dixiedean

Applicant said:

dixiedean said:

Applicant said:

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Hants beat Yorks by 2 wickets, and I believe that sends them top.

(Edit: no, 3 pts behind Surrey. I must have miscounted...)

Big Lanky run chase on to make it three way.

28 needed off 9, five wickets left. Should be very comfortable.

Still would be a big target to get.
Wonder if Captains are going to have to re-think their targets? To declare and set 329 off 100 didn't seem unreasonable.

Leon

In a COMPLETELY mad town in the “winelands” of the Armenian Caucasus, where the only person that speaks English, it seems, is “Varndan”, the 7 year old son of the hotel owner. Everyone else just shrugs and gently laughs by way of saying sorry. Armenians are really nice: friendly, polite, amiable, fairly sensible drivers, which is great as I have to concentrate every second so as to avoid the ginormous, car-killing pot holes

When the Armenians say “winelands” they mean a series of hideous post-Soviet towns made mainly of poor cement and worse concrete, hidden away in stunning red rock canyons (like Arizona) where the higher slopes are blushed with poppies and every other street has some lovely woman, amidst the rubble

The wine is excellent; they claim these steep smoky valleys are the the birthplace of wine. It is a frequently ugly, occasionally sublime and generally compelling place

MoonRabbit

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MrEd said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

No Tory poll leads for SIX MONTHS and 9 DAYS - @MrEd please explain!
@HYUFD please explain!
@bigjohnowls please explain!

I guess Sunil is sorry he couldn’t resist it.

MrEd

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MrEd said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

No Tory poll leads for SIX MONTHS and 9 DAYS - @MrEd please explain!
@HYUFD please explain!
@bigjohnowls please explain!

BJ a fairly crap PM probably explains it.

DavidL

It's almost as if the Lib Dems contrive numbers that just might encourage tactical voting or turnout of their supporters. But surely such an upstanding group of people would not resort to such chicanery. Repeatedly.

Omnium

Leon said:

In a COMPLETELY mad town in the “winelands” of the Armenian Caucasus, where the only person that speaks English, it seems, is “Varndan”, the 7 year old son of the hotel owner. Everyone else just shrugs and gently laughs by way of saying sorry. Armenians are really nice: friendly, polite, amiable, fairly sensible drivers, which is great as I have to concentrate every second so as to avoid the ginormous, car-killing pot holes

When the Armenians say “winelands” they mean a series of hideous post-Soviet towns made mainly of poor cement and worse concrete, hidden away in stunning red rock canyons (like Arizona) where the higher slopes are blushed with poppies and every other street has some lovely woman, amidst the rubble

The wine is excellent; they claim these steep smoky valleys are the the birthplace of wine. It is a frequently ugly, occasionally sublime and generally compelling place

You're on a most excellent mission to collect evidence to undermine the French

What could be more noble!

algarkirk

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

It is incredibly depressing how many upvotes this post got. We are advocating abusing judges.

Nice try but 100% misreading of the post.

Do you think the Mail want anything other than abuse of this person? You are honest and I can trust in what you're saying but you're amongst very bad company here.

I don't read the Mail but I have read 1984.

Two things can both be right at the same time: Supporting public justice being done by identifiable judges (a long UK tradition, even in NI in the bad old days) and opposing abuse of those same people.

MoonRabbit

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

I agree with you Woolie, comres last was a bit of an outlier.

I’ve noted a few times the Comres polling baffles me, how do they get the greens so low when others don’t? Answer is they are clearly adding a splash of green to their Labour scores. What they are though is very consistent, apart from an outlier last time, still around margins of error type outlier of which this poll is reverting back so fools gold movement for Tories, they are consistent on the gap of 6, a high Labour of 40, a low green, a low Libdem, and a higher Tory share. Very consistent all year with those figures.

wooliedyed

DavidL said:

It's almost as if the Lib Dems contrive numbers that just might encourage tactical voting or turnout of their supporters. But surely such an upstanding group of people would not resort to such chicanery. Repeatedly.

We need it closer to get turnout up.
Phone a shit load of 2019 tories.
Release the kraken.
Quietly arrange cheesy photo op in Tiverton with a giant orange hammer and Sir Ed for the 24th

MarqueeMark

kjh said:

Lol. The LDs would claim they were only 2% behind if their internal polling showed them to be 80% ahead. Classic by election tactics.

Or 11% behind.....

wooliedyed

MoonRabbit said:

IshmaelZ said:

Uncanny how these polls consistently understate the LD position. Quite uncanny.

I am only surprised not to see some kind of abstract, graphic representation of the respective vote shares.

It probably shouldn’t be called a poll. What do you think of when you hear that, proper and regulated poll or a gut feel from a party that is basically a lie from its spin team to get the vote out.

We had this discussion with MarqueeMark the other day, the conclusion being the libdems saying just two behind any day now was inevitable.

Yes they are either home and dry or nowhere. The result will be 15 points lead for one or the other

IshmaelZ

Best thing in the world, premade campari soda

Sandpit

dixiedean said:

Applicant said:

dixiedean said:

Applicant said:

turbotubbs said:

Nail biter at the Rose bowl. Hants need 7 with just two wickets left..

Hants beat Yorks by 2 wickets, and I believe that sends them top.

(Edit: no, 3 pts behind Surrey. I must have miscounted...)

Big Lanky run chase on to make it three way.

28 needed off 9, five wickets left. Should be very comfortable.

Still would be a big target to get.
Wonder if Captains are going to have to re-think their targets? To declare and set 329 off 100 didn't seem unreasonable.

Did they not read yesterday’s cricket news?

Andy_JS

If the LDs were 10 points ahead they'd still say they were 2 points behind to get the activists to visit.

Sunil_Prasannan

MoonRabbit said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MrEd said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

@CorrectHorseBattery please explain!

(sorry Horse, I couldn't resist it )

No Tory poll leads for SIX MONTHS and 9 DAYS - @MrEd please explain!
@HYUFD please explain!
@bigjohnowls please explain!

I guess Sunil is sorry he couldn’t resist it.

Although there is the possibility I'll have to change my avatar in the coming months...

Carnyx

AugustusCarp2 said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

The anonymity and impersonal nature of justice should be one of its strengths. It's one of the reasons I have concerns about Restorative Justice generally, and today's idea about constantly informing victims of crime about the progress through the penal system of the perpetrator of the crime. It introduces too much "personality" and individuality into what should be a neutral process - all it will do is expand the possibility of long-held grudges and vendettas, rather than society drawing a line under the matter.

Quite. If I were, for instance, burgled or mugged and was asked to express my views on punishment, I would say that it was for the State as represented by the Judge to deal with that, and the Jury to deal with guilt. I would feel profoundly unhappy at doing anything other than factual witness (e.g. on what was stolen, what my in jury was and how long it took me to recover).

MattW

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

It is incredibly depressing how many upvotes this post got. We are advocating abusing judges.

Nice try but 100% misreading of the post.

Do you think the Mail want anything other than abuse of this person? You are honest and I can trust in what you're saying but you're amongst very bad company here.

I don't read the Mail but I have read 1984.

Two things can both be right at the same time: Supporting public justice being done by identifiable judges (a long UK tradition, even in NI in the bad old days) and opposing abuse of those same people.

The alternative to open justice is secret justice.

It seem to me quite clear which is worse.

And if abuse is incited, I think these days we have a whole bucket-load of offences which can apply.

Defining a Newspaper as a malicious communication is an interesting one.

Andy_JS

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

It is normal to know the name of judges involved in cases. It's called open justice.

stodge

DavidL said:

It's almost as if the Lib Dems contrive numbers that just might encourage tactical voting or turnout of their supporters. But surely such an upstanding group of people would not resort to such chicanery. Repeatedly.

Come on, David - it's hardly chicanery. It's called politics and a former Prime Minister once described it as "rough trade".

It's a campaigning technique - we've all seen it before. It may be the Conservatives have used something similar in Copeland or perhaps Batley & Spen.

Carnyx

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

People wouldn't steal gays so much if these people didn't create a market for them

That'd be a fence, shirley, not a fencer?

It's quite hard to get fencing done at this time of year. One may have to overlook their sexuality just this once.

There might be an ideal time to get fencing done but you can't necessarily picket.

For that, you should be de-fence-strated.

Ah, my coat.

That may need to be put to a PANEL of judges, or anyone who holds an appropriate POST

Far be it from me to criticise your post and rail against it...

Let alone cap it.

Taz

TheScreamingEagles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

Indeed, the Brexit idiots started the ball rolling, remember this when Mail complained one judge's crime was to be a gay fencer.

A fence ? Like Arfur Daley.

Theuniondivvie

Omnium said:

Leon said:

In a COMPLETELY mad town in the “winelands” of the Armenian Caucasus, where the only person that speaks English, it seems, is “Varndan”, the 7 year old son of the hotel owner. Everyone else just shrugs and gently laughs by way of saying sorry. Armenians are really nice: friendly, polite, amiable, fairly sensible drivers, which is great as I have to concentrate every second so as to avoid the ginormous, car-killing pot holes

When the Armenians say “winelands” they mean a series of hideous post-Soviet towns made mainly of poor cement and worse concrete, hidden away in stunning red rock canyons (like Arizona) where the higher slopes are blushed with poppies and every other street has some lovely woman, amidst the rubble

The wine is excellent; they claim these steep smoky valleys are the the birthplace of wine. It is a frequently ugly, occasionally sublime and generally compelling place

You're on a most excellent mission to collect evidence to undermine the French

What could be more noble!

Rot.

Daveyboy1961

Andy_JS said:

If the LDs were 10 points ahead they'd still say they were 2 points behind to get the activists to visit.

tut tut, are you calling the LDs liars?

I hope you have a source for that, (apart from the 2010 manifesto obvs)

wooliedyed

MoonRabbit said:

wooliedyed said:

Com Res reherds

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 40% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDM: 10% (-1)
SNP: 4% (=)
GRN: 4% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 10-12 Jun.
Changes w/ 27-29 May.

I agree with you Woolie, comres last was a bit of an outlier.

I’ve noted a few times the Comres polling baffles me, how do they get the greens so low when others don’t? Answer is they are clearly adding a splash of green to their Labour scores. What they are though is very consistent, apart from an outlier last time, still around margins of error type outlier of which this poll is reverting back so fools gold movement for Tories, they are consistent on the gap of 6, a high Labour of 40, a low green, a low Libdem, and a higher Tory share. Very consistent all year with those figures.

Back to 54 for the 'progressives' too of course.
Green 4 seems more realistic for a GE, especially as they may not stand everywhere.
LDs a little disappointing given the redfield.
We have been circling these sorts of figures since the crossover in late 2021

Taz

fitalass said:

Applicant said:

IshmaelZ said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/15/nicola-sturgeon-second-scottish-independence-referendum-october-2023

Yuge if vrai

Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it.

"if"...

All Nicola Sturgeon announced yesterday was her intention to continue to keep talking about promising a second Referendum next year, its become an annual event to keep the SNP membership from getting too restless... I suspect yesterday's Independence PR stunt inside and outside Holyrood was more about launching Angus Robertson's leadership campaign to succeed her, and I predict that there is now more chance of Nicola Sturgeon standing down than an Indy Ref happening next year.

I agree and I think @malcolmg has called it correctly. Again

Nigel_Foremain

Applicant said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Does nobody find the idea that we're going to find the individual judge's name so that they can be given abuse, really chilling?

About as chilling as the thought of justice being administered by someone whose identity is kept secret?

The idea is that justices should have their identity low profile, hence the partial reason/ tradition of the wigs and funny clothes. They analyse the law and give an interpretation. Impartiality of the judiciary is something that Britain (before it became a laughing stock with a clown for PM) gave to the world, well at least, the "free" world, and it is a tradition that was extended to Europe when we were a founder and signatory to the ECHR. Populist tossers would have judges pilloried for interpreting the bad law that has been made by a half wit government, when the real culprits are the idiots that inspired and passed the bad law or policy.

True enough - but there's a world of difference between "low profile" and "secret".

I can see nothing wrong with secrecy provided the adjudication makes sense. This adjudication does make sense, it simply says if there is to be a judicial review no deportations should go ahead before that point. Perfectly logical, except in the head of Nigel fucking Farage.