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The next Tory poll lead – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,263
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,179

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,886

    Re Sierra Nevada x 2, suggest the nags are (or should be) differentiated by pronouncing name of one in original, Spanish fashion ("Nev-aahh-da") and other in USA style ("Ne-vadd-a")

    You mean I've been pronouncing it "wrong" all these years? Doh.

    Almost as bad as St. Louis, Des Moines or Montpelier.

  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Alaska 2022 Special Congressional Election Primary - top four candidates advance to Aug 16 special (ranked choice) election (same day as regular Alaska primary):

    Ballots counted = 67,650 as of 9.15pm Fri Alaska time (about half of what were returned as of Friday)
    > here are the current leaders so far:

    Sara Palin (Republican) 23,844 (35.3%)
    > former governor & VP nomineee
    Nick Begich (Republican) 12,784 (18.9%)
    > member of prominent Alaska Democratic political family
    Al Gross 8,852 (Nonpartisan) 8,852 (13.1%)
    >Democratic US Senate nominee in 2020
    Mary Peltola (Democratic) 4,609 (6.8%)
    > former state representative and inter-tribal fisheries commissioner
    Santa Claus (Undeclared) 3,074 (4.6%)
    > city councilman from North Pole (naturlly) and declared Democratic Socialist (ditto)
    Tara Sweeney (Republican) 2,324 (3.4%)
    > ex-asst sec. of Interior & head of Bureau of Indian affairs under Trump
    Joshua Revak (Republican) 1,218 (1.8%)
    > state senator

    On basis of above, Palin clearly will advance to general election ballot, along with Begich, Gross and probably Peltola.

    So as it's FPTP in the second round, we can look forward to Senator Palin?
    My reading is that August vote will be AV (Hurrah) and it might be Congresswoman Palin (not Senator).
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,179

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Don’t scare the horses. Sounds a waste of time.

    I’m glad I was watching YouTube videos.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.
    Pretty much sums up Boris Johnson. No soul. No ideology. No coherence.

    Just a muddled set of knee-jerk reactions to the latest crisis with the sole aim of holding onto power.

    There is nothing that defines Johnson or his brand of conservativism. It’s power for the Sake of it with no aim or purpose.
    Which is the point of being Oxford Union President, isn't it?

    Looking at this list,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_Oxford_Union

    There are very few future PMs there. It's more Jeremy Thorpe and Gyles Brandreth than Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher.

    Might be a reason for that.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    Man living in petro-state thinks we should cut tax on petrol 🤔
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,179

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641

    I fear the country is heading into a real fight with the unions v government arguing over who runs UK

    I hope this does not descend into shades of the miners strike, but there are indicators it may be

    Nandy and Streeting seem to have upset the apple cart by backing the strikes, while Starmer goes awol, and Reeves struggles on Sophie to answer the direct question on whether she would support the strike

    I do not know if the conservatives will regain a poll lead, but the fact the question is even being asked seems extraordinary in view of the economic and political crisis engulfing our country and just why labour are not out of sight

    I suspect the public may well consider labour do not have the answer either, other than to throw billions at it

    Well, I won't be doing any overtime or vacancy cover if the 2% offer stands with 10% inflation.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,004
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited June 2022

    I fear the country is heading into a real fight with the unions v government arguing over who runs UK

    I hope this does not descend into shades of the miners strike, but there are indicators it may be

    Nandy and Streeting seem to have upset the apple cart by backing the strikes, while Starmer goes awol, and Reeves struggles on Sophie to answer the direct question on whether she would support the strike

    I do not know if the conservatives will regain a poll lead, but the fact the question is even being asked seems extraordinary in view of the economic and political crisis engulfing our country and just why labour are not out of sight

    I suspect the public may well consider labour do not have the answer either, other than to throw billions at it

    The only option for Labour is to adopt a consensual approach. Miliband's German-style "workers on boards" stance, also applied to a compromise, workers-and-bosses approach to several disputes taking place in the present. That's the only way they can outflank the Tories on their now supposed, and much-vaunted, working-class credibilty, without being seen to be too directly in the pocket of the unions. The tabloids are already trying to rev up this claim, as is traditionally, but I'm not sure they'll find post-Brexit C2DE voters as receptive to it as before. We've had five years of fairly shallow claims that Labour doesn't represent the working class, but the Tories do - and these may be about to be put to the test.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Sensible woman. Every Labour policy gets stolen by this government of kleptocrats, including the windfall tax. She needs to keep the powder dry.

    It's not as if the Tories have come out with policies, other than performative cruelty to foreigners.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.
    Pretty much sums up Boris Johnson. No soul. No ideology. No coherence.

    Just a muddled set of knee-jerk reactions to the latest crisis with the sole aim of holding onto power.

    There is nothing that defines Johnson or his brand of conservativism. It’s power for the Sake of it with no aim or purpose.
    Which is the point of being Oxford Union President, isn't it?

    Looking at this list,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_Oxford_Union

    There are very few future PMs there. It's more Jeremy Thorpe and Gyles Brandreth than Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher.

    Might be a reason for that.
    Certainly at least one Oxford Union President on that least who became PM other than Johnson, Edward Heath in 1938.

    A few Presidents who nearly made it too, Michael Heseltine, Tony Benn and William Hague and one President, Philip May, who married a future PM
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,229

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
    I'd go further (having agreed with everything you posted) and ask if there is even such a thing as a "national mood" any more. We are more and more polarised and divided, and the government's only consistent policy is to fan these flames and makes us ever more so.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.
    Pretty much sums up Boris Johnson. No soul. No ideology. No coherence.

    Just a muddled set of knee-jerk reactions to the latest crisis with the sole aim of holding onto power.

    There is nothing that defines Johnson or his brand of conservativism. It’s power for the Sake of it with no aim or purpose.
    Which is the point of being Oxford Union President, isn't it?

    Looking at this list,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_Oxford_Union

    There are very few future PMs there. It's more Jeremy Thorpe and Gyles Brandreth than Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher.

    Might be a reason for that.
    Certainly at least one Oxford Union President on that least who became PM other than Johnson, Edward Heath in 1938.

    A few Presidents who nearly made it too, Michael Heseltine, Tony Benn and William Hague and one President, Philip May, who married a future PM
    Benazir Bhutto there too.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,229

    I fear the country is heading into a real fight with the unions v government arguing over who runs UK

    I hope this does not descend into shades of the miners strike, but there are indicators it may be

    Nandy and Streeting seem to have upset the apple cart by backing the strikes, while Starmer goes awol, and Reeves struggles on Sophie to answer the direct question on whether she would support the strike

    I do not know if the conservatives will regain a poll lead, but the fact the question is even being asked seems extraordinary in view of the economic and political crisis engulfing our country and just why labour are not out of sight

    I suspect the public may well consider labour do not have the answer either, other than to throw billions at it

    The only option for Labour is to adopt a consensual approach. Miliband's "workers on boards" stance also applied to a compromise, workers-and-bosses approach to several disputes in the present. That's the only way they can outflank the Tories on their now supposed, and much-vaunted, working-class credibilty, without being seen to be too directly in the pocket of the unions. The tabloids are already trying to rev up this claim, as is traditionally, but I'm not sure they'll find post-Brexit C2DE voters as receptive to it as before. We've had five years of fairly shallow claims that Labour doesn't represent the working-class, but the Tories do.
    We would all benefit from the demolition of this "workers" vs "bosses" division. Sure, there are some people in both camps who give their side a bad name and a bad reputation with the other camp. But most? Business works best when everyone is trying to do the right thing for both the interests of the company and its employees having realised both go hand in hand.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    Brandon Lewis clearly demonstrating that it’s not just Johnson who’s the problem but every member of his spineless cabinet who continue to repeat his lies & defend his law-breaking #SundayMorning #Raworth
    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1535913881373114369
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,004

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
    I'd go further (having agreed with everything you posted) and ask if there is even such a thing as a "national mood" any more. We are more and more polarised and divided, and the government's only consistent policy is to fan these flames and makes us ever more so.
    I'd suggest that last weekend was a prime example of us having a 'national mood'. Millions of people having a good time and getting to know each other on a rather spurious basis.

    Then there's the question of whether there was ever really a 'national mood'. Even during World War II there were plenty of dissenting voices and moods that varied from: "Let's go and kill all the vile Hun!" through "Let's just go, get the job done and get home," to "We shouldn't fight, war's bad". Then there were the black marketeers and strikers who were not exactly fitting in with what we see as the mood at the time.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
    Should have used the excuse his nan made him do it.....
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
    Nope . There is zero reason for having policies now because Bozo will just steal them and it’s impossible to tell what Government finances will look like in 2 years time.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    Category error. The purpose of the plan is not to break the strike, but to avoid responsibility for the consequences, or just to look like they are doing something about it for a few minutes.

    It's a very post-modern government. Actually achieving things is irrelevant. The key thing is to be in favour of simple solutions and against bad things.
    So the Tories implement the policy and allow agency workers to be used.

    There is a second round of strikes after the law change yet no agency workers man the signal boxes.

    Who would get the blame because Bozo has seemingly fixed the issue by changing the law.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
    Should have used the excuse his nan made him do it.....
    Zoink.
    Curry night with the Foymeister. Legendary.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    I know it is all a matter of taste and at risk of @TheScreamingEagles banning me from PB all this lot (Boney M, Abba, etc) just drive me potty, mainly because I hate them, but then can't get the tunes out of my head, but then I like blues based music. Give me Cream or the Allman Brothers any day of the week.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    I used to go to Sana'a in Yemen (in the time before the Saudis and Iranians decided to flatten, it as a neutral venue for a proxy war). One of the more surreal experiences was being woken by the call to prayers starting with the central Rasputin theme played on what I can only think was a Rolf Harris Stylophone.

    I relayed this to a very skeptical colleague, who at that point had not visited. But once he did "Bloody hell.....Ra-ra-rasputin at some ungodly hour....why???"

    I do miss stuff like that, not having travelled abroad now for 3 years.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_xP said:

    Brandon Lewis clearly demonstrating that it’s not just Johnson who’s the problem but every member of his spineless cabinet who continue to repeat his lies & defend his law-breaking #SundayMorning #Raworth
    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1535913881373114369

    Lots of personal reputations in the Cabinet being Ratnerised on the alter of Boris's legacy.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited June 2022
    Re the NI change from HMG website which sees a £330 pa tax cut from the 1st July


    National insurance (NI) bills, which were pushed up by higher rates from April, are set to go down again in July when the NI repayment threshold is increased. The impact of this see-saw on your finances will depend on how much you earn. Those on lower incomes will make some welcome savings from July, while higher earners will fork out more compared to 2021.

    At the start of the new tax year on Wednesday 6 April, workers started paying more national insurance. The rate at which you pay national insurance has increased by 1.25 percentage points. This means that from 6 April workers saw their national insurance contributions rise from 12% to 13.25%. Earnings above £4,189 a month (£50,270 per year) are usually subject to national insurance deductions of 2%. But from 6 April this increased to 3.25%.

    The good news is that for most workers this increase in national insurance will only last until June. This is because most of us will start paying less national insurance from July as the national insurance threshold increases.

    From July the NICs threshold will be the same as the income tax threshold (known as the personal allowance).

    It means you won’t pay national insurance or income tax if you earn below £12,570 a year. If you earn more than this, you will still feel the benefit as you will pay less national insurance overall due to the higher threshold.

    The change will save each employee an average of £330 in national insurance a year.

    About 2.2 million will no longer pay national insurance at all.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    I used to go to Sana'a in Yemen (in the time before the Saudis and Iranians decided to flatten, it as a neutral venue for a proxy war). One of the more surreal experiences was being woken by the call to prayers starting with the central Rasputin theme played on what I can only think was a Rolf Harris Stylophone.

    I relayed this to a very skeptical colleague, who at that point had not visited. But once he did "Bloody hell.....Ra-ra-rasputin at some ungodly hour....why???"

    I do miss stuff like that, not having travelled abroad now for 3 years.
    Sicily is 3 hours and £60 quid away

    Sitting in the piazza del Duomo in Ortygia, thinking the world really is Italy, and the rest
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    Lots of personal reputations in the Cabinet being Ratnerised on the alter of Boris's legacy.

    It's surprising none of them have figured out that resigning now would make them a star, an clinging on will make them barely a footnote.

    But of course that's why they were chosen by BoZo to be in his cabinet...
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    edited June 2022
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
    Nope . There is zero reason for having policies now because Bozo will just steal them and it’s impossible to tell what Government finances will look like in 2 years time.
    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:



    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba

    Exactly. As a card-carrying Abba fan since before they even formed up, I really like Boney M too. Going beyond the "I like X, your taste is rubbish" exchanges, has anyone done any scientific study on why different types of people like certain types of music?

    Closest I can get to it for myself is that I approach life with a cheery clear-eyed optimism bordering on reckless innocence, and bouncy, upbeat music reinforces that. I think if one saw life in a more cynical and worldly-wise way, they'd be quite irritating.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    I used to go to Sana'a in Yemen (in the time before the Saudis and Iranians decided to flatten, it as a neutral venue for a proxy war). One of the more surreal experiences was being woken by the call to prayers starting with the central Rasputin theme played on what I can only think was a Rolf Harris Stylophone.

    I relayed this to a very skeptical colleague, who at that point had not visited. But once he did "Bloody hell.....Ra-ra-rasputin at some ungodly hour....why???"

    I do miss stuff like that, not having travelled abroad now for 3 years.
    Sicily is 3 hours and £60 quid away

    Sitting in the piazza del Duomo in Ortygia, thinking the world really is Italy, and the rest
    We have been to Sicily three times but not by plane

    Once from Malta and twice on a cruise ship
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Re the NI change from HMG website which sees a £330 pa tax cut from the 1st July


    National insurance (NI) bills, which were pushed up by higher rates from April, are set to go down again in July when the NI repayment threshold is increased. The impact of this see-saw on your finances will depend on how much you earn. Those on lower incomes will make some welcome savings from July, while higher earners will fork out more compared to 2021.

    At the start of the new tax year on Wednesday 6 April, workers started paying more national insurance. The rate at which you pay national insurance has increased by 1.25 percentage points. This means that from 6 April workers saw their national insurance contributions rise from 12% to 13.25%. Earnings above £4,189 a month (£50,270 per year) are usually subject to national insurance deductions of 2%. But from 6 April this increased to 3.25%.

    The good news is that for most workers this increase in national insurance will only last until June. This is because most of us will start paying less national insurance from July as the national insurance threshold increases.

    From July the NICs threshold will be the same as the income tax threshold (known as the personal allowance).

    It means you won’t pay national insurance or income tax if you earn below £12,570 a year. If you earn more than this, you will still feel the benefit as you will pay less national insurance overall due to the higher threshold.

    The change will save each employee an average of £330 in national insurance a year.

    About 2.2 million will no longer pay national insurance at all.

    Just over three tanks of petrol a year
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631

    IshmaelZ said:



    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba

    Exactly. As a card-carrying Abba fan since before they even formed up, I really like Boney M too. Going beyond the "I like X, your taste is rubbish" exchanges, has anyone done any scientific study on why different types of people like certain types of music?

    Closest I can get to it for myself is that I approach life with a cheery clear-eyed optimism bordering on reckless innocence, and bouncy, upbeat music reinforces that. I think if one saw life in a more cynical and worldly-wise way, they'd be quite irritating.
    I've liked Nick, because I really do, even though I want to say 'your taste is rubbish'.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    Re the NI change from HMG website which sees a £330 pa tax cut from the 1st July


    National insurance (NI) bills, which were pushed up by higher rates from April, are set to go down again in July when the NI repayment threshold is increased. The impact of this see-saw on your finances will depend on how much you earn. Those on lower incomes will make some welcome savings from July, while higher earners will fork out more compared to 2021.

    At the start of the new tax year on Wednesday 6 April, workers started paying more national insurance. The rate at which you pay national insurance has increased by 1.25 percentage points. This means that from 6 April workers saw their national insurance contributions rise from 12% to 13.25%. Earnings above £4,189 a month (£50,270 per year) are usually subject to national insurance deductions of 2%. But from 6 April this increased to 3.25%.

    The good news is that for most workers this increase in national insurance will only last until June. This is because most of us will start paying less national insurance from July as the national insurance threshold increases.

    From July the NICs threshold will be the same as the income tax threshold (known as the personal allowance).

    It means you won’t pay national insurance or income tax if you earn below £12,570 a year. If you earn more than this, you will still feel the benefit as you will pay less national insurance overall due to the higher threshold.

    The change will save each employee an average of £330 in national insurance a year.

    About 2.2 million will no longer pay national insurance at all.

    Just over three tanks of petrol a year
    What's that saying, 'every little helps'
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,855
    Morning all :)

    For those with the capacity to work from home, the forthcoming train strikes (if they happen) will be a mild inconvenience at best and if the weather's nice and the garden is available, a nice lunch outdoors may not seem wholly unattractive.

    For all too many, that's not going to be an option and they will have to do the best they can. The most inconvenienced will tend to be Conservative-inclined these days while the least will not so the strikes will enhance polarisation rather than weaken it.

    They will also obscure the serious and overdue debate about the medium and long term questions of public transport in this country. It's another one of those subjects where the pandemic and politics have prevented a proper and rigorous debate about what kind of systems do we want, need, what can support sustainability and allow for (where practical) a reduction in road transport (so it's as much about things as people if not more so).

    Bellicose anti-union rantings play well in the media but Johnson was once a cannier operator than he seems now. Once of his big messages when he as campaigning to become London mayor was a pledge to "take on" Bob Crow
    and the RMT who had plagued Livingstone with intermittent and effective strikes on the Underground in the 2000s.

    I thought there would be a big showdown between Johnson and Crow but there wasn't. Crow was too clever to fall into the elephant trap and Johnson quickly recognised that. Crow would pick his battles carefully arguing for greater passenger safety rather than just in pecuniary terms for his members. In the end, I believe there was considerable mutual respect and I recall Johnson being fulsome in his tribute when Crow died in 2014.

    I suspect the current RMT leadership aren't in Crow's class and arguing the economics when we are all feeling the pinch seems selfish in extremis. That being said, the emphasis then was on the drivers who are well paid (though not as well paid as some think) but a lot of other RMT members (especially station staff) aren't well paid.

    Fare evasion in my part of London is endemic among young males in particular and I'd much rather see some decent liberal authoritarianism with more BTP and revenue collection staff and public horse-whipping of those caught trying to avoid paying (yes, I know the last is a shade draconian and you'll never get it past the namby-pamby, nanny State, cancel culture, woke snowflake Conservatives but it's worth a try).
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Re the NI change from HMG website which sees a £330 pa tax cut from the 1st July


    National insurance (NI) bills, which were pushed up by higher rates from April, are set to go down again in July when the NI repayment threshold is increased. The impact of this see-saw on your finances will depend on how much you earn. Those on lower incomes will make some welcome savings from July, while higher earners will fork out more compared to 2021.

    At the start of the new tax year on Wednesday 6 April, workers started paying more national insurance. The rate at which you pay national insurance has increased by 1.25 percentage points. This means that from 6 April workers saw their national insurance contributions rise from 12% to 13.25%. Earnings above £4,189 a month (£50,270 per year) are usually subject to national insurance deductions of 2%. But from 6 April this increased to 3.25%.

    The good news is that for most workers this increase in national insurance will only last until June. This is because most of us will start paying less national insurance from July as the national insurance threshold increases.

    From July the NICs threshold will be the same as the income tax threshold (known as the personal allowance).

    It means you won’t pay national insurance or income tax if you earn below £12,570 a year. If you earn more than this, you will still feel the benefit as you will pay less national insurance overall due to the higher threshold.

    The change will save each employee an average of £330 in national insurance a year.

    About 2.2 million will no longer pay national insurance at all.

    Just over three tanks of petrol a year
    What's that saying, 'every little helps'
    What would actually help is above inflation pay rises but for some reason that isn’t being encouraged anymore.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    edited June 2022

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
    Nope . There is zero reason for having policies now because Bozo will just steal them and it’s impossible to tell what Government finances will look like in 2 years time.
    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.
    I don’t think SKS and co are moaning - they know it’s a long term game and the only poll that matters is the actual election.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Completely off topic but this story about Tesla attempting to avoid liability for autopilot crashes is epic

    On Thursday, NHTSA said it had discovered in 16 separate instances when
    this occurred that Autopilot "aborted vehicle control less than one second
    prior to the first impact," suggesting the driver was not prepared to assume
    full control over the vehicle.
    CEO Elon Musk has often claimed that accidents cannot be the fault of the
    company, as data it extracted invariably showed Autopilot was not active in
    the moment of the collision.
    While anything that might indicate the system was designed to shut off
    when it sensed an imminent accident might damage Tesla's image, legally
    the company would be a difficult target.
    All of Tesla's current autonomous features, including its vaunted Full Self-
    Driving tech, currently in beta testing, are deemed assistance systems in
    which the driver is liable at all times rather than the manufacturer.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/nhtsa-upgrades-tesla-autopilot-probe-into-emergency-scene-crashes-11654789798
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
    I'd go further (having agreed with everything you posted) and ask if there is even such a thing as a "national mood" any more. We are more and more polarised and divided, and the government's only consistent policy is to fan these flames and makes us ever more so.
    I'd suggest that last weekend was a prime example of us having a 'national mood'. Millions of people having a good time and getting to know each other on a rather spurious basis.

    Then there's the question of whether there was ever really a 'national mood'. Even during World War II there were plenty of dissenting voices and moods that varied from: "Let's go and kill all the vile Hun!" through "Let's just go, get the job done and get home," to "We shouldn't fight, war's bad". Then there were the black marketeers and strikers who were not exactly fitting in with what we see as the mood at the time.
    Looting of bombed houses was rife too.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,855


    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.

    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    Completely off topic but this story about Tesla attempting to avoid liability for autopilot crashes is epic

    On Thursday, NHTSA said it had discovered in 16 separate instances when
    this occurred that Autopilot "aborted vehicle control less than one second
    prior to the first impact," suggesting the driver was not prepared to assume
    full control over the vehicle.
    CEO Elon Musk has often claimed that accidents cannot be the fault of the
    company, as data it extracted invariably showed Autopilot was not active in
    the moment of the collision.
    While anything that might indicate the system was designed to shut off
    when it sensed an imminent accident might damage Tesla's image, legally
    the company would be a difficult target.
    All of Tesla's current autonomous features, including its vaunted Full Self-
    Driving tech, currently in beta testing, are deemed assistance systems in
    which the driver is liable at all times rather than the manufacturer.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/nhtsa-upgrades-tesla-autopilot-probe-into-emergency-scene-crashes-11654789798

    Cor

    Serious smoking gun
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    eek said:


    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves on Sunday morning with Sophie Raworth demonstrates just why labour are struggling

    She couldn't give a straight answer to genuine questions and was evasive

    Such as ?

    We’re still in bed here.
    Refused to say she would cancel the NI rise if they win in 24, but demands it is cancelled now

    Refused to commit to a fuel duty reduction beyond the present 5p

    Refused to say whether she backed the RMT strike

    Stated she will outline policies nearer the election with no indication on tax and spend

    Generally a sitting on the fence interview
    Labour cant have policies until they know if they all get binned after Durham police confirm Starmer has stabbed himself into resignation with a poppadom shard
    Nope . There is zero reason for having policies now because Bozo will just steal them and it’s impossible to tell what Government finances will look like in 2 years time.
    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.
    I don’t think SKS and co are moaning - they know it’s a long term game and the only poll that matters is the actual election.
    No, but they will if they lose the election because the electorate dont like the last minute offer. Up to them but very high risk when they could play low risk and drip out policy tailoring to what is working and saunter in in 2024.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
    I'd go further (having agreed with everything you posted) and ask if there is even such a thing as a "national mood" any more. We are more and more polarised and divided, and the government's only consistent policy is to fan these flames and makes us ever more so.
    I'd suggest that last weekend was a prime example of us having a 'national mood'. Millions of people having a good time and getting to know each other on a rather spurious basis.

    Then there's the question of whether there was ever really a 'national mood'. Even during World War II there were plenty of dissenting voices and moods that varied from: "Let's go and kill all the vile Hun!" through "Let's just go, get the job done and get home," to "We shouldn't fight, war's bad". Then there were the black marketeers and strikers who were not exactly fitting in with what we see as the mood at the time.
    Indeed. I think Angus Calder's 'The people's war' was quite a shock at the time of publication in 1969, for its revisionist take, though (slightly surprisingly) I haven't read his later 'Myth of the Blitz'.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    stodge said:


    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.

    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    If you can find time to spit out four finely crafted paras for pb can you really be sniffy about having things to do on Sunday mornings
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    edited June 2022
    stodge said:


    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.

    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    If that works then the approach will be vindicated. If they are still in opposition in 2025 then Reeves etc will all be yesterdays failed opposition big beasts.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,399
    France votes today (and again next Sunday).

    Here is a long and dull article that goes on about PR and AV and stuff.
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/05/30/french-legislative-elections-2022-how-does-this-post-presidential-election-work_5984994_8.html
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    stodge said:


    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.

    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I remember a student friend coming back from a SP concert and rhapsodising about the spitting ...
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
    But not by mobs preventing the rule of law.

    If you disagree with the law get it changed
    What’s the difference?
    Because the police and CPS are employed to enforce the laws without fear or favour. If they do not they are failing in their jobs and should be treated accordingly.

    A mob preventing the exercise of that role: (i) undermines the exercise of lawful authority; and (ii) indicates that force and/or the fear of force are acceptable alternatives to the democratic process.

    A better analogy is the recent decision by Cineworld to pull a movie because of threats of violence. I can understand why they did so, but not why the person behind the threats hasn’t been charged for instigation
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,179

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    He is off his rocker
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,399
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.
    Pretty much sums up Boris Johnson. No soul. No ideology. No coherence.

    Just a muddled set of knee-jerk reactions to the latest crisis with the sole aim of holding onto power.

    There is nothing that defines Johnson or his brand of conservativism. It’s power for the Sake of it with no aim or purpose.
    Which is the point of being Oxford Union President, isn't it?

    Looking at this list,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_Oxford_Union

    There are very few future PMs there. It's more Jeremy Thorpe and Gyles Brandreth than Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher.

    Might be a reason for that.
    Certainly at least one Oxford Union President on that least who became PM other than Johnson, Edward Heath in 1938.

    A few Presidents who nearly made it too, Michael Heseltine, Tony Benn and William Hague and one President, Philip May, who married a future PM
    Here is Edward Heath giving evidence to a Select Committee on PMQs. At 43 minutes, he mentions the Oxford Union as a training ground.
    https://youtu.be/FcKxJZZP2Z4?t=2581s
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 595
    rcs1000 said:

    Am I correct in thinking that, across three games, England had managed to score just one goal - and that a penalty?

    This does not appear to bode well for our chances in the World Cup later this year.

    I can think of one game where you are dooomed to lose.....
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
    But not by mobs preventing the rule of law.

    If you disagree with the law get it changed
    I'm not convinced that the current government is best placed to lecture the public on the importance of the rule of law.
    I’m not a member of, or even supportive of, Boris Johnson’s government.

    The fact that the PM has accepted a FPN in no way undermines the importance of the rule of law
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,855

    stodge said:


    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
    Apologies, I sit corrected. I thought you and your good lady had a fine vista out across the North Wales coast and would be enjoying an al fresco breakfast - bit more than I can manage in East London.

    As a working man, I find my weekend time too precious to be indulging in Sky News - in truth, apart from being on here and offering a few dubious nuggets of insight, I'm looking at the final declarations for Ascot on Tuesday. Again, I wish I could enjoy that but work, as ever, intervenes.

    People ask me when I'm going to retire and the answer is when Mrs Stodge lets me !!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    stodge said:


    Then they can't moan when the electorate shy away from them when they dont know what they stand for.
    At present they are presenting themselves as her majesty's loyal and permanent opposition, not a government in waiting. As usual.

    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
    While I've never been a golfer, I too pine for the days when I could set out for a walk on a Sunday. Or any other day.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548
    edited June 2022
    Loving it. Hackneyed but still fun.

    Yankee Doodle interviewee on the BBC World Service explaining how the invaders of Congress were all wearing 'cacky pants'.

    How did that get through?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Thats a lot of fusion
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Or alternative identities for Sean.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225
    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    Yeah, responsible reporting.... *shiver*
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548
    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Clearly the Guardian thinks she's going to lose.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,855
    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:


    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    If you can find time to spit out four finely crafted paras for pb can you really be sniffy about having things to do on Sunday mornings
    "Finely Crafted"? I'm overcome - my Boss would be so proud. It's what I do for a living (well, sometimes) . As I've responded to @Big_G_NorthWales. I'm multi-tasking this with form study for Ascot on Tuesday, mid morning coffee and I'm sizing up Mrs Stodge's Brunch order of smoked salmon and scrambled eggs on brioche toast with her fruit bowl accompanying.

    And this is my quiet time !!
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance? Perhaps they should.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    IshmaelZ said:



    So this is where the Spartans and Syracusans build a boom in aug sept 413 trapping the Athenian fleet in the great harbour to the right and destroying them.
    All because that muppet Nicias thought lunar eclipses were messages from the gods.

    The moon showed up an arse?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
    In some universes in our multiverse Keir, Angie and Mary Foy really were working on curry 'n beer with the lads night.#eventhemostunlikelyuniversesexist
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974
    stodge said:

    stodge said:


    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
    Apologies, I sit corrected. I thought you and your good lady had a fine vista out across the North Wales coast and would be enjoying an al fresco breakfast - bit more than I can manage in East London.

    As a working man, I find my weekend time too precious to be indulging in Sky News - in truth, apart from being on here and offering a few dubious nuggets of insight, I'm looking at the final declarations for Ascot on Tuesday. Again, I wish I could enjoy that but work, as ever, intervenes.

    People ask me when I'm going to retire and the answer is when Mrs Stodge lets me !!
    Hopefully you will ping me your tips stodge. I will have plenty time for horses this week. I am sitting thingy in hills. 25 miles North of Malaga. Beautiful day and views are gorgeous.@stodge
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045
    kinabalu said:

    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.

    Why would you stop being a fan just because others overrate them?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance? Perhaps they should.
    I wonder if the Guardian will bail her out if she does lose. Or does their support for her stop short of that?
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    Odious though AB might be, and responsible though he may be of many of the things of which he has been accused in the past, including some of those from CC, if he does win it *should* send a chill through the journalistic ranks. It in no way impedes their ability to conduct investigative journalism. It *does* discourage printing poorly sourced, badly evidenced extrapolations and hear-say.

    CC has been a useful idiot to those on Banks's side, providing a welter of dismissible stories that can be used to snow the true ones. It needs to stop.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830


    Me living the life of a big ass flint knapper

    Waterloo and Rasputin are companion pieces, 2 sides of a diptych, etc as ludicrously batty disco treatments of key historical figures. Rasputin is certainly not inferior.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    edited June 2022

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
    Yes. Remarkable to think we are celebrating the centenary of Opik's estimate of the distance to the Andromeda nebula.
    The first real proof of the existence of galaxies beyond our own. (Confirmed by Hubble's identification of individual Cepheids in Andromeda the following year).
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,399
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance? Perhaps they should.
    I wonder if the Guardian will bail her out if she does lose. Or does their support for her stop short of that?
    Arron Banks presumably hopes so. Whatever the merits, suing individual journalists rather than their publishers is surely a sinister development.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    stodge said:

    stodge said:


    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
    Apologies, I sit corrected. I thought you and your good lady had a fine vista out across the North Wales coast and would be enjoying an al fresco breakfast - bit more than I can manage in East London.

    As a working man, I find my weekend time too precious to be indulging in Sky News - in truth, apart from being on here and offering a few dubious nuggets of insight, I'm looking at the final declarations for Ascot on Tuesday. Again, I wish I could enjoy that but work, as ever, intervenes.

    People ask me when I'm going to retire and the answer is when Mrs Stodge lets me !!
    Just a gentle chide, but yes we do look out over the Irish sea to the front, Snowdonia to the rear and have a secluded south facing garden

    We are so blessed and do count our blessings every day, not least grandchild number 5 due on the 1st September as a complete surprise, and not least to the parents who already have two charming children and are both handfuls (10 and 8)
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433

    kinabalu said:

    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.

    Why would you stop being a fan just because others overrate them?
    An excellent question.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,399

    stodge said:

    stodge said:


    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
    Apologies, I sit corrected. I thought you and your good lady had a fine vista out across the North Wales coast and would be enjoying an al fresco breakfast - bit more than I can manage in East London.

    As a working man, I find my weekend time too precious to be indulging in Sky News - in truth, apart from being on here and offering a few dubious nuggets of insight, I'm looking at the final declarations for Ascot on Tuesday. Again, I wish I could enjoy that but work, as ever, intervenes.

    People ask me when I'm going to retire and the answer is when Mrs Stodge lets me !!
    Just a gentle chide, but yes we do look out over the Irish sea to the front, Snowdonia to the rear and have a secluded south facing garden

    We are so blessed and do count our blessings every day, not least grandchild number 5 due on the 1st September as a complete surprise, and not least to the parents who already have two charming children and are both handfuls (10 and 8)
    Do they not know what caused it?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
    In some universes in our multiverse Keir, Angie and Mary Foy really were working on curry 'n beer with the lads night.#eventhemostunlikelyuniversesexist
    Could we postulate one in which Boris Johnson is hard-working, competent, honest and selflessly devoted to the welfare of the nation?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    stodge said:

    stodge said:


    Labour are playing the long game as any sensible Opposition would be in a hugely volatile and fast-changing environment. There was a time when windfall taxes were out of the question and then they weren't.

    The idea is to develop solutions to tomorrow's problems as well as to today's. The current Government is like a pinball being flipped round bouncing from one thing to another, incoherent and out of control of events and it's the perception of the latter which is the most damaging.

    As to Rachel Reeves, I suppose when I get to the stage when I've nothing better to do with a sunny Sunday morning than listen to a politician on Sky News, fine but sometimes the best option is to say nothing. After all, Reeves isn't the Government any more than I am - ultimately, it's better not to give your opponent a stick with which to beat you even if it looks as though you've not got a stick yourself.

    I suspect Reeves is probably glad not to be in No.11 currently and she will be as aware as Sunak of the economic "bleak midwinter" approaching - what price oil if we get a cold Northern Hemisphere winter and what price a kilowatt hour of electricity in January 2023? That's what I would be thinking about now rather than worrying about how I look on Sky News.

    Just a point of order but the interview I referred to was Reeves on Sophie Raworth on BBC, not Sky, and as far as nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I really 'pine' for the days I played golf every Sunday morning and were more active, but sadly by mobility issues stopped my golf 14 years ago and my aging has seemingly arrived unfortunately, tempus fugit as they say
    Apologies, I sit corrected. I thought you and your good lady had a fine vista out across the North Wales coast and would be enjoying an al fresco breakfast - bit more than I can manage in East London.

    As a working man, I find my weekend time too precious to be indulging in Sky News - in truth, apart from being on here and offering a few dubious nuggets of insight, I'm looking at the final declarations for Ascot on Tuesday. Again, I wish I could enjoy that but work, as ever, intervenes.

    People ask me when I'm going to retire and the answer is when Mrs Stodge lets me !!
    Just a gentle chide, but yes we do look out over the Irish sea to the front, Snowdonia to the rear and have a secluded south facing garden

    We are so blessed and do count our blessings every day, not least grandchild number 5 due on the 1st September as a complete surprise, and not least to the parents who already have two charming children and are both handfuls (10 and 8)
    Do they not know what caused it?
    I am sure they do, but sometimes maybe a 'wee' bit of alcohol may just have an effect
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.

    Why would you stop being a fan just because others overrate them?
    An excellent question.
    One just does

    My Italian waiter has arbitrarily decided I am French and I have managed to keep up the act for so far 4 interactions with him (he is speaking English to the next table). Inexplicably pleased about this
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
    In some universes in our multiverse Keir, Angie and Mary Foy really were working on curry 'n beer with the lads night.#eventhemostunlikelyuniversesexist
    Could we postulate one in which Boris Johnson is hard-working, competent, honest and selflessly devoted to the welfare of the nation?
    No - not in the wildest of imaginations
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance? Perhaps they should.
    I wonder if the Guardian will bail her out if she does lose. Or does their support for her stop short of that?
    Arron Banks presumably hopes so. Whatever the merits, suing individual journalists rather than their publishers is surely a sinister development.
    Normally you sue the individual/organisation with the deepest pockets. But given Banks's wealth, I assume he thought it more amusing to sue Cadwalladr personally.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,749
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance? Perhaps they should.
    I wonder if the Guardian will bail her out if she does lose. Or does their support for her stop short of that?
    Better ask Sarah Tisdall:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Tisdall
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    kinabalu said:

    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.

    With Abba, I think it's just over-familiarity. By chance I discovered that they recorded a lot of their songs in Spanish and it was like listening to them with fresh ears.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    @DecrepiterJohnL - When Sally Bercow tweeted that stuff about McAlpine, he sued her rather than Twitter. So this nothing new.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.

    Why would you stop being a fan just because others overrate them?
    An excellent question.
    One just does

    My Italian waiter has arbitrarily decided I am French and I have managed to keep up the act for so far 4 interactions with him (he is speaking English to the next table). Inexplicably pleased about this
    I don't. I like what I like, and I couldn't give even the tiniest of shits whether that puts me in a minority of one, or whether it puts me in with the Guardian readers, the lumpen proles, Hitler, or anyone else. I can't imagine being so ludicrously weak minded and insecure as to stop liking something because of the others who liked or disliked it.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tomorrow is going to be fun...

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/12/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-defamation-verdict-press-freedom

    The highly anticipated judgment in the libel action brought by multimillionaire Brexit backer Arron Banks against the Observer and Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalladr will be handed down this week. The landmark verdict will potentially have huge ramifications for press freedom and investigative reporting.

    Mrs Justice Steyn will deliver her judgment by email on Monday morning. The decision will be the culmination of an often rancorous three-year legal battle and could send a chilling effect throughout British journalism.

    I wonder if the Guardian will be reporting objectively on this one :smile: .

    Personally I am hoping it will have ramifications for journalistic competence (see the industrial scale production of corrections following CC's articles).
    Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance? Perhaps they should.
    I wonder if the Guardian will bail her out if she does lose. Or does their support for her stop short of that?
    Arron Banks presumably hopes so. Whatever the merits, suing individual journalists rather than their publishers is surely a sinister development.
    Normally you sue the individual/organisation with the deepest pockets. But given Banks's wealth, I assume he thought it more amusing to sue Cadwalladr personally.
    "Do journalists take out professional indemnity insurance"

    Certainly should do if you are freelancer.
  • Options
    I see the waverers are back on team Tory again. They were wavering for a whole week this time
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
    In some universes in our multiverse Keir, Angie and Mary Foy really were working on curry 'n beer with the lads night.#eventhemostunlikelyuniversesexist
    Could we postulate one in which Boris Johnson is hard-working, competent, honest and selflessly devoted to the welfare of the nation?
    You see thats the one that breaks the whole multiverse theory
    #oneuniverseitis
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
    I'd go further (having agreed with everything you posted) and ask if there is even such a thing as a "national mood" any more. We are more and more polarised and divided, and the government's only consistent policy is to fan these flames and makes us ever more so.
    I'd suggest that last weekend was a prime example of us having a 'national mood'. Millions of people having a good time and getting to know each other on a rather spurious basis.

    Then there's the question of whether there was ever really a 'national mood'. Even during World War II there were plenty of dissenting voices and moods that varied from: "Let's go and kill all the vile Hun!" through "Let's just go, get the job done and get home," to "We shouldn't fight, war's bad". Then there were the black marketeers and strikers who were not exactly fitting in with what we see as the mood at the time.
    Indeed. I think Angus Calder's 'The people's war' was quite a shock at the time of publication in 1969, for its revisionist take, though (slightly surprisingly) I haven't read his later 'Myth of the Blitz'.
    For all the beating that social media gets it’s decent at dispelling the national myth stuff. Last weekend I was surprised at just how much genuine participation in the royal jamboree there was south of Gretna and how much genuine indifference there was north of it. If we’d only had the media package available in say 1977, ie a fawning BBC and deranged tabloids, the myth of an all consuming national Platty Joobs would be well on its way to be established. We wouldn’t have royalists gloomily prognosticating about what a disaster King Charles will be within a week of the Windsorgasm either.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225
    edited June 2022

    kinabalu said:

    I think Abba have gone from underrated to overrated. Boney M for me are still in underrated territory. Very much so in fact. I recently wrote a spoof song "Mad Bad Vlad Putin" to the tune of Ra Ra Rasputin which involved listening to the original several times and left me thinking, gosh great song actually (theirs not mine) and which then took me down a rabbit hole of other stuff by them. Some minor gems! To mention just 2: Belfast, a punchy protest about the Troubles that you could dance to, and a more than passable disco ballady treatment of Neil Young's Heart Of Gold which had me smiling and thinking where has THAT been all my life? Big stage presence too, the live versions often better than the record. So, yes, Boney M rocked. Course they will one day get discovered again by opinion formers and then it'll swing the other way and they'll get ridiculously overrated like Abba. But until then I'm a fan.

    Why would you stop being a fan just because others overrate them?
    Because all is relative not absolute.

    ie if I'm a fan but most are bigger fans I'm not a fan.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
    They were the epitome of disco, criticism of Boney M is not allowed! Paper Lace can fuck off though. Nottingham Forest, Billy dont be a hero, orchestra/pop twats.
    That aside, every decade has its cheese. We will no doubt look back (or rather younger bears will) and cringe at todays novelty performers however much their teeny bopper fans think they are the absolute moon and cutting edge of cool.
    Paper Lace only had the one big hit and a couple of minor ones. One of its former members wrote the opening credits music for Midlands today in the late eighties.

    Boney M had far greater longevity and knocked out some belting tunes. Their cover of ‘Painter Man’ is a banger.

    Of course famously there are currently more versions of Boney M touring than grains of sand in the world.
    They toured the USSR and had some of the best selling singles of the 70s, when it meant something.
    Legends.
    Talking of grains of sand it is estimated for every grain of sand on earth there are 10,000 stars in the universe.
    Known universe(s)....
    In some universes in our multiverse Keir, Angie and Mary Foy really were working on curry 'n beer with the lads night.#eventhemostunlikelyuniversesexist
    Could we postulate one in which Boris Johnson is hard-working, competent, honest and selflessly devoted to the welfare of the nation?
    You see thats the one that breaks the whole multiverse theory
    #oneuniverseitis
    That''s four separate universes!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433

    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.

    Hmmm. I'm still not sure you really get the national mood in your UAE hideaway.
    I don't think any of us really 'get' the national mood. Few of us talk with wide swathes of the population, especially about politics. We have family and friends, often of similar backgrounds to our own, and many of us frequent comfortable echo chambers on the Internet.

    Are discussions I have with parents in the schoolground whilst waiting for their kids to come out of class representative of a 'national mood' , or just ones of certain geographic and economic basis?

    Then there's the issue of what you hear: if I am talking with someone who is very left-wing, I am unlikely to talk about privatisation unless I know them very well. I'm more likely just to nod and listen.

    We can only see a tiny slice of that national mood.
    I'd go further (having agreed with everything you posted) and ask if there is even such a thing as a "national mood" any more. We are more and more polarised and divided, and the government's only consistent policy is to fan these flames and makes us ever more so.
    I'd suggest that last weekend was a prime example of us having a 'national mood'. Millions of people having a good time and getting to know each other on a rather spurious basis.

    Then there's the question of whether there was ever really a 'national mood'. Even during World War II there were plenty of dissenting voices and moods that varied from: "Let's go and kill all the vile Hun!" through "Let's just go, get the job done and get home," to "We shouldn't fight, war's bad". Then there were the black marketeers and strikers who were not exactly fitting in with what we see as the mood at the time.
    Indeed. I think Angus Calder's 'The people's war' was quite a shock at the time of publication in 1969, for its revisionist take, though (slightly surprisingly) I haven't read his later 'Myth of the Blitz'.
    For all the beating that social media gets it’s decent at dispelling the national myth stuff. Last weekend I was surprised at just how much genuine participation in the royal jamboree there was south of Gretna and how much genuine indifference there was north of it. If we’d only had the media package available in say 1977, ie a fawning BBC and deranged tabloids, the myth of an all consuming national Platty Joobs would be well on its way to be established. We wouldn’t have royalists gloomily prognosticating about what a disaster King Charles will be within a week of the Windsorgasm either.
    I was surprised on the upside at the levels of celebration I saw around Scotland. I suppose we all see what we're looking for.
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