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The next Tory poll lead – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 20 in General
imageThe next Tory poll lead – politicalbetting.com

I really do enjoy the betting opportunities that Smarkets give us when it comes to opinion polls. Looking at last night’s poll from Opinium which gave Labour a mere 2% lead, and with another Opinium due in a fortnight I can understand why the 20 on June being the month of the next Tory poll lead will seem attractive to many.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    OT already. The BBC's news website leads on American anti-gun rallies. A reminder that especially its weekend overnight team tends to focus on American domestic news.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,051
    Second like Johnson
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,967
    edited June 12
    I have just seen the Boris Johnson relaunch photo.

    Mr Johnson is both of the people and of the minute. The photo has him posing next to his personal airliner, and saluting his grateful nation, Benny Hill style.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    Hunt on for 17 Tories who lied to Boris Johnson about confidence vote support
    Some 17 more MPs expressed support for the Prime Minister than voted for him - after Tories were warned "only loyalty will be rewarded in the reshuffle"

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/hunt-tories-who-lied-boris-27207107
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    edited June 12
    Chums is a forthcoming TV series about the Oxford University days of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne, Dominic Cummings and Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10907403/New-TV-series-Chums-focus-Oxford-University-days-Boris-Johnson.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,562
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: perusing the markets. One of those with half a dozen ok bets but nothing spectacular, so I may be in a state of cogitation for a while.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831

    I have just seen the Boris Johnson relaunch photo.

    Mr Johnson is both of the people and of the minute. The photo has him posing next to his personal airliner, and saluting his grateful nation, Benny Hill style.

    This one?
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-flew-last-ditch-27207605

    Does Boris salute every flight or is that picture from India?
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/et-commentary/indo-british-relations-in-light-of-bojos-visit-how-the-wooing-has-gone-the-other-way/articleshow/91035961.cms

    It has become almost a meme photo, used for several stories, including partygate, for instance.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-fresh-partygate-fines-b2063609.html
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    Good morning.

    I don't wish to be in the slightest rude but these bi-monthly tory poll lead threads by TSE usually presage another existential crisis in the party and Labour surging ahead again.

    So the value is in betting on an increased Labour lead ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,383
    Am I correct in thinking that, across three games, England had managed to score just one goal - and that a penalty?

    This does not appear to bode well for our chances in the World Cup later this year.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397

    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.

    Massive domestic fuel price hikes + stratospheric petrol prices + substantial real terms pay cuts = no-one will notice.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    rcs1000 said:

    Am I correct in thinking that, across three games, England had managed to score just one goal - and that a penalty?

    This does not appear to bode well for our chances in the World Cup later this year.

    Yes, though it is encouraging we scored the penalty given our perennial shootout woes.

    Is Three Lions' lack of goals becoming a problem?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61773302
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,562
    edited June 12
    Betting Post

    F1: considered many bets but in the end split a stake between Zhou Guanyu to beat Bottas at 2.75 and Ricciardo to beat Norris at 3.3. They start immediately ahead and behind of their respective team mates.

    Free bet suggestion is Sainz to win each way at 19 (with boost).

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/06/azerbaijan-pre-race-2022.html
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 12
    Good morning everyone.

    "The pound is facing an “existential crisis,” the Bank of America has warned. “We sense a failure to acknowledge that Brexit has been a significant headwind to the supply side."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    OT there are two fillies with the same name, Sierra Nevada, running in the 4.50 at Gowran Park.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    pigeon said:

    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.

    Massive domestic fuel price hikes + stratospheric petrol prices + substantial real terms pay cuts = no-one will notice.
    Of course people will notice being paid more than usual. They may also notice inflation but might feel every little helps.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,223
    Alaska 2022 Special Congressional Election Primary - top four candidates advance to Aug 16 special (ranked choice) election (same day as regular Alaska primary):

    Ballots counted = 67,650 as of 9.15pm Fri Alaska time (about half of what were returned as of Friday)
    > here are the current leaders so far:

    Sara Palin (Republican) 23,844 (35.3%)
    > former governor & VP nomineee
    Nick Begich (Republican) 12,784 (18.9%)
    > member of prominent Alaska Democratic political family
    Al Gross 8,852 (Nonpartisan) 8,852 (13.1%)
    >Democratic US Senate nominee in 2020
    Mary Peltola (Democratic) 4,609 (6.8%)
    > former state representative and inter-tribal fisheries commissioner
    Santa Claus (Undeclared) 3,074 (4.6%)
    > city councilman from North Pole (naturlly) and declared Democratic Socialist (ditto)
    Tara Sweeney (Republican) 2,324 (3.4%)
    > ex-asst sec. of Interior & head of Bureau of Indian affairs under Trump
    Joshua Revak (Republican) 1,218 (1.8%)
    > state senator

    On basis of above, Palin clearly will advance to general election ballot, along with Begich, Gross and probably Peltola.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    edited June 12

    pigeon said:

    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.

    Massive domestic fuel price hikes + stratospheric petrol prices + substantial real terms pay cuts = no-one will notice.
    Of course people will notice being paid more than usual. They may also notice inflation but might feel every little helps.
    But they’re not, are they? They will notice a partial reverse of an earlier tax rise. They will still notice they are being paid less than they were six months ago.

    And businesses, especially smaller ones, will still note they are paying more.

    Edited because it was a rise not a cut!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397

    pigeon said:

    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.

    Massive domestic fuel price hikes + stratospheric petrol prices + substantial real terms pay cuts = no-one will notice.
    Of course people will notice being paid more than usual. They may also notice inflation but might feel every little helps.
    No. It's a drop in the ocean. It will vanish into nothing.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,223
    CORRECTED - Alaska 2022 Special Congressional Election Primary - top four candidates advance to Aug 16 special (ranked choice) election (same day as regular Alaska primary):

    Ballots counted = 67,650 as of 9.15pm Fri Alaska time (about half of what were returned as of Friday)
    > here are the current leaders so far:

    Sara Palin (Republican) 23,844 (35.3%)
    > former governor & VP nomineee
    Nick Begich (Republican) 12,784 (18.9%)
    > member of prominent Alaska Democratic political family
    Al Gross 8,852 (Nonpartisan) 8,852 (13.1%)
    >Democratic US Senate nominee in 2020
    Mary Peltola (Democratic) 4,609 (6.8%)
    > former state representative and inter-tribal fisheries commissioner
    Santa Claus (Undeclared) 3,074 (4.6%)
    > city councilman from North Pole (naturlly) and declared Democratic Socialist (ditto)
    Tara Sweeney (Republican) 2,324 (3.4%)
    > ex-asst sec. of Interior & head of Bureau of Indian affairs under Trump
    Adam Wool (Democratic) 1,675 (2.5%)
    > state representative
    Jeff Lowenfels (Nonpartisan) 1,602 (2.4%)
    > attorney & gardening writer(a challenging position up in the Last Frontier)
    Joshua Revak (Republican) 1,218 (1.8%)
    > state senator

    On basis of above, Palin clearly will advance to general election ballot, along with Begich, Gross and probably Peltola.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,223
    Anchorage Daily News - Palin, Begich, Gross and Peltola are early frontrunners in Alaska’s special U.S. House primary

    https://www.adn.com/politics/2022/06/11/palin-begich-gross-and-peltola-are-early-frontrunners-in-alaskas-special-us-house-primary/

    Early results in Alaska’s 48-candidate special primary election for U.S. House show Republicans Sarah Palin and Nick Begich III taking the lead, followed by independent Al Gross. Democratic former state Rep. Mary Peltola, in her first statewide campaign, was in fourth.

    Palin, in her first campaign since resigning as Alaska governor in 2009, was the clear leader with 35%. Begich, a businessman who launched his campaign before the March death of longtime Alaska U.S. Rep. Don Young — which prompted Saturday’s special election — was in second place with 19%.

    Gross, who ran unsuccessfully as an independent for U.S. Senate in 2020, with the Democratic Party’s nomination, was in third place with 13%.

    Peltola, a former state representative from the Southwest Alaska rural hub of Bethel, was in fourth with 7%. The top four candidates from the special primary will advance to an August special general election, which will be Alaska’s first using ranked choice voting.

    Independent Santa Claus — born Thomas O’Connor — was in fifth Saturday with 5%, followed by Republican Alaska Native leader Tara Sweeney, Republican former Fairbanks state Sen. John Coghill and Democratic Fairbanks state Rep. Adam Wool.

    The results, representing 68,000 of the nearly 130,000 ballots cast through Friday, are not a definitive statement on which four candidates will advance to an August special general election, and the Alaska Division of Elections did not make clear which regions the ballots were from. Several more counts will take place over the next two weeks.

    But the numbers represent the first, long-awaited clear expression of Alaska voters’ preferences in the state’s first U.S. House race without an incumbent in a half-century . . .
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,223

    Chums is a forthcoming TV series about the Oxford University days of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne, Dominic Cummings and Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10907403/New-TV-series-Chums-focus-Oxford-University-days-Boris-Johnson.html

    How many restaurants were trashed for & during the filming?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,081
    Investment and exports are down as a result of Brexit. Now that similar countries are starting to recover from the pandemic, the scale of the damage is becoming more evident. Last week, a piece of analysis estimated that the economy is already 5% smaller than it would have been had the UK not left the single market and customs union. These impacts are not unexpected but there was simply not the slack in the lethargic British economy to absorb them. Even media publications that supported Brexit at the time are recognising that Brexit is costing British voters day in, day out, in the form of higher business costs, particularly for exporting SMEs, lower wages, and more poorly funded public services, a cost we can ill afford.

    Brexit has also affected the price of sterling; a decline in the value of the pound has increased the cost of imports even as British exports have fallen, contributing to the cost of living crisis. Economic forecasters predict the pound could drop further against the dollar and euro, particularly if UK-EU relations over the Northern Ireland protocol become even more fractious.

    This hopeless government, mired in incompetence and scandal, has no answers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2022/jun/12/observer-view-on-uk-dire-economic-outlook
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831

    Chums is a forthcoming TV series about the Oxford University days of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne, Dominic Cummings and Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10907403/New-TV-series-Chums-focus-Oxford-University-days-Boris-Johnson.html

    How many restaurants were trashed for & during the filming?
    When Boris Met Dave covers the same period and iirc starts with Boris running away after a plant pot has been thrown through a restaurant window.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,051
    rcs1000 said:

    Am I correct in thinking that, across three games, England had managed to score just one goal - and that a penalty?

    This does not appear to bode well for our chances in the World Cup later this year.

    On the contrary, being able to score a penalty might come in very handy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,967

    I have just seen the Boris Johnson relaunch photo.

    Mr Johnson is both of the people and of the minute. The photo has him posing next to his personal airliner, and saluting his grateful nation, Benny Hill style.

    This one?
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-flew-last-ditch-27207605

    Does Boris salute every flight or is that picture from India?
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/et-commentary/indo-british-relations-in-light-of-bojos-visit-how-the-wooing-has-gone-the-other-way/articleshow/91035961.cms

    It has become almost a meme photo, used for several stories, including partygate, for instance.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-fresh-partygate-fines-b2063609.html
    My error Or rather the Mirror's error. Mind you he nonetheless looks the part of World Statesman.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,047

    OT there are two fillies with the same name, Sierra Nevada, running in the 4.50 at Gowran Park.

    Praying for a photo finish

    Useful illustration of the concept of name space. Can only happen because one of them is foreign
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044
    Scott_xP said:

    Investment and exports are down as a result of Brexit. Now that similar countries are starting to recover from the pandemic, the scale of the damage is becoming more evident. Last week, a piece of analysis estimated that the economy is already 5% smaller than it would have been had the UK not left the single market and customs union. These impacts are not unexpected but there was simply not the slack in the lethargic British economy to absorb them. Even media publications that supported Brexit at the time are recognising that Brexit is costing British voters day in, day out, in the form of higher business costs, particularly for exporting SMEs, lower wages, and more poorly funded public services, a cost we can ill afford.

    Brexit has also affected the price of sterling; a decline in the value of the pound has increased the cost of imports even as British exports have fallen, contributing to the cost of living crisis. Economic forecasters predict the pound could drop further against the dollar and euro, particularly if UK-EU relations over the Northern Ireland protocol become even more fractious.

    This hopeless government, mired in incompetence and scandal, has no answers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2022/jun/12/observer-view-on-uk-dire-economic-outlook

    U.K. economic decline a result of global factors.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-10893857/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-sunk-global-tides.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,326

    pigeon said:

    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.

    Massive domestic fuel price hikes + stratospheric petrol prices + substantial real terms pay cuts = no-one will notice.
    Of course people will notice being paid more than usual. They may also notice inflation but might feel every little helps.
    Monthly paid staff won't notice enough to affect a July poll lead, as usually paid at the end of a month.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831

    I have just seen the Boris Johnson relaunch photo.

    Mr Johnson is both of the people and of the minute. The photo has him posing next to his personal airliner, and saluting his grateful nation, Benny Hill style.

    This one?
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-flew-last-ditch-27207605

    Does Boris salute every flight or is that picture from India?
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/et-commentary/indo-british-relations-in-light-of-bojos-visit-how-the-wooing-has-gone-the-other-way/articleshow/91035961.cms

    It has become almost a meme photo, used for several stories, including partygate, for instance.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-fresh-partygate-fines-b2063609.html
    My error Or rather the Mirror's error. Mind you he nonetheless looks the part of World Statesman.
    Not an error but a meme, perhaps, just as Ed Miliband did not eat a bacon sandwich (actually a bacon roll) every week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    Betting Post

    F1: considered many bets but in the end split a stake between Zhou Guanyu to beat Bottas at 2.75 and Ricciardo to beat Norris at 3.3. They start immediately ahead and behind of their respective team mates.

    Free bet suggestion is Sainz to win each way at 19 (with boost).

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/06/azerbaijan-pre-race-2022.html

    Any bet on a red flag is more or less free money the way that circuit is set up.

    If he can refrain from hitting the walls, Perez would be my favourite to win.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Am I correct in thinking that, across three games, England had managed to score just one goal - and that a penalty?

    This does not appear to bode well for our chances in the World Cup later this year.

    On the contrary, being able to score a penalty might come in very handy.
    Is it a fixed penalty? We have people who are good at scoring those
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,945
    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    IshmaelZ said:

    OT there are two fillies with the same name, Sierra Nevada, running in the 4.50 at Gowran Park.

    Praying for a photo finish

    Useful illustration of the concept of name space. Can only happen because one of them is foreign
    Yes, one Sierra Nevada was registered in Britain, the other in America (although as they are racing in Ireland, both namespaces are, arguably, foreign).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    The same place all Johnson's policies come from. Out of his arse.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,177
    Good morning everyone. Trust the weather in Nottingham is as good as here, and we can have a full day's batting from England.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    Good morning everyone. Trust the weather in Nottingham is as good as here, and we can have a full day's batting from England.

    I do hope not. I would rather they saved the follow on.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044
    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    Rwanda.

    The planes going back will have lots of empty seats...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,831
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    The same place all Johnson's policies come from. Out of his arse.
    Maybe the agency staff will operate the ticket offices which the government wants to close.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    IshmaelZ said:

    OT there are two fillies with the same name, Sierra Nevada, running in the 4.50 at Gowran Park.

    Praying for a photo finish

    Useful illustration of the concept of name space. Can only happen because one of them is foreign
    Stewards should insist one is registered for the race as Sierra Nevada Furriner.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,562
    Mr. Doethur, I tipped Perez each way at 8.5 before the weekend started. Currently hedgeable at 5.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,266
    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    And when they do it for their local drug dealer?

  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    And when they do it for their local drug dealer?

    Then we need to consider why drugs are illegal.

    It’s not a thin end of the wedge argument. They are not going to do it for serious crimes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.

    This could be easily resolved with meaningful talks.

    The other rail union has settled with Scotrail after meaningful talks.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    edited June 12
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    The same place all Johnson's policies come from. Out of his arse.
    Also, AIUI one needs to be fully current with the routes, signalling, diversions, and so on. The only place I can see to get such staff is in the current workforce - ie the non union members who will be turning up for work anyway.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,975
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,177
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning everyone. Trust the weather in Nottingham is as good as here, and we can have a full day's batting from England.

    I do hope not. I would rather they saved the follow on.
    I wasn't thinking of them following on; I had in mind them batting all day and setting a total which would result in a competitive and challenging fifth day.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,945
    edited June 12

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Indeed. There are a number if roles I can imagine being covered effectively. But.
    There isn't the pool of agency staff for regular day-to-day needs in the economy. And even if there were...
    Covering all these roles does not allow trains to run.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    Rwanda.

    The planes going back will have lots of empty seats...
    Is that HMG's policy? If so it shows a typical Tory attitude to facts ... there are no railways in Rwanda.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,790
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    ISTR that in previous strikes managers have drive trains and done other jobs to keep parts of the network going. Many managers started off at lower grades, and keep their skills up-to-date (e.g. managers in charge of training). Since the early days of BR, 'managers' on the railways tended to include a lot of roles that we might not traditionally see as managerial, often at unions' insistence.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,945
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    The TSSA are balloting right now. Closes end of June.
    So there may we'll be quite a lot of stuff management won't be touching by July.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    ISTR that in previous strikes managers have drive trains and done other jobs to keep parts of the network going. Many managers started off at lower grades, and keep their skills up-to-date (e.g. managers in charge of training). Since the early days of BR, 'managers' on the railways tended to include a lot of roles that we might not traditionally see as managerial, often at unions' insistence.
    The railways have changed a lot - lots of non railway management brought in. But that would not necessarily change the point you make. But as Dixiedean says the managers may be striking too ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/09/rail-managers-to-be-balloted-on-strike-action
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913
    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    edited June 12
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,223
    Re Sierra Nevada x 2, suggest the nags are (or should be) differentiated by pronouncing name of one in original, Spanish fashion ("Nev-aahh-da") and other in USA style ("Ne-vadd-a")
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning everyone. Trust the weather in Nottingham is as good as here, and we can have a full day's batting from England.

    I do hope not. I would rather they saved the follow on.
    I wasn't thinking of them following on; I had in mind them batting all day and setting a total which would result in a competitive and challenging fifth day.
    Sadly, it's now time to wake up and that delightful dream will melt away.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,012
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    The same place all Johnson's policies come from. Out of his arse.
    There's a sufficiency of Conservative MPs there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    I look forward to HMG being berated by PBTories and false allegations being made by PBTories (and doubled down on) as happened with the similar incident in Glasgow.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    Rwanda.

    The planes going back will have lots of empty seats...
    Is that HMG's policy? If so it shows a typical Tory attitude to facts ... there are no railways in Rwanda.
    One of the reasons my tongue was firmly in cheek.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,627
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    ISTR that in previous strikes managers have drive trains and done other jobs to keep parts of the network going. Many managers started off at lower grades, and keep their skills up-to-date (e.g. managers in charge of training). Since the early days of BR, 'managers' on the railways tended to include a lot of roles that we might not traditionally see as managerial, often at unions' insistence.
    The railways have changed a lot - lots of non railway management brought in. But that would not necessarily change the point you make. But as Dixiedean says the managers may be striking too ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/09/rail-managers-to-be-balloted-on-strike-action
    The railways may well be on a mission to show us how they have become less important over the last 20 years.
    It may have slipped past them, but swathes of commuter business only needs a small push to become WFH.
    They are grubby hot tubes of potentially infection generating over priced unpleasantness.
    They are much use as a GP barricaded in their surgery refusing to see patients until 3 months time.
    Both are racing to find the quickest way to oblivion.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,945
    edited June 12

    Any good government would be doing all it could to avert a rail strike. It would call for negotiations to restart, seek intervention by ACAS etc, ask for goodwill on both sides and hope to reach a compromise that all could live with.

    Unsurprisingly, this government is different. Its route is provocation, threats and raising the temperature, rather than mediation, negotiation and lowering the temperature. Let's find a new enemy within! No surprise at all.

    Here's the nub of the issue, though. From Observer.

    "The government is expected to announce a series of pay deals across the public sector for the current financial year soon, backdated to April."

    They'll be well below inflation.
    Edit: I assume "deals" means "offers" here.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,012

    Any good government would be doing all it could to avert a rail strike. It would call for negotiations to restart, seek intervention by ACAS etc, ask for goodwill on both sides and hope to reach a compromise that all could live with.

    Unsurprisingly, this government is different. Its route is provocation, threats and raising the temperature, rather than mediation, negotiation and lowering the temperature. Let's find a new enemy within! No surprise at all.

    Depends if your aim is to run things well or to "win the debate".

    When all (gestures) this is over, can we burn the Oxford and Cambridge Unions to the ground, burn the ashes to make doubly sure and then disperse the remains across the world so they are never reassembled?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    philiph said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    ISTR that in previous strikes managers have drive trains and done other jobs to keep parts of the network going. Many managers started off at lower grades, and keep their skills up-to-date (e.g. managers in charge of training). Since the early days of BR, 'managers' on the railways tended to include a lot of roles that we might not traditionally see as managerial, often at unions' insistence.
    The railways have changed a lot - lots of non railway management brought in. But that would not necessarily change the point you make. But as Dixiedean says the managers may be striking too ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/09/rail-managers-to-be-balloted-on-strike-action
    The railways may well be on a mission to show us how they have become less important over the last 20 years.
    It may have slipped past them, but swathes of commuter business only needs a small push to become WFH.
    They are grubby hot tubes of potentially infection generating over priced unpleasantness.
    They are much use as a GP barricaded in their surgery refusing to see patients until 3 months time.
    Both are racing to find the quickest way to oblivion.
    Do you live in London? That's a very commutercentric view.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,081
    ...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,193

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,177
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning everyone. Trust the weather in Nottingham is as good as here, and we can have a full day's batting from England.

    I do hope not. I would rather they saved the follow on.
    I wasn't thinking of them following on; I had in mind them batting all day and setting a total which would result in a competitive and challenging fifth day.
    Sadly, it's now time to wake up and that delightful dream will melt away.
    Given the problems I have ATM, my wife is urging me to be positive. And it rubs off elsewhere!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503

    Any good government would be doing all it could to avert a rail strike. It would call for negotiations to restart, seek intervention by ACAS etc, ask for goodwill on both sides and hope to reach a compromise that all could live with.

    Unsurprisingly, this government is different. Its route is provocation, threats and raising the temperature, rather than mediation, negotiation and lowering the temperature. Let's find a new enemy within! No surprise at all.

    No doubt the SNP and Scotrail will be berated for their treason in having already reached a below-inflation agreement with the union (though that process began earlier, or at least the strikes did).
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 379
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Yes, the actions of untrained staff contributed to the accident, but there were other problems. The token instrument should have been in the signalbox and only operated by the signalman. It was instead located in the staff room. It should only have been operated by the signalman or the stationmaster, but they often weren't available, so it was actually operated by whoever was around. And the trained staff were also implicated. The stationmaster took the token from the trainee and gave it to the driver without checking it. The fireman accepted it without checking it. The driver also failed to check it. At least three trained staff failed to follow the rules. If any one of them had done so and checked the token as required, the accident would not have happened.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,975

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
    Quite. Pitch invasions at football. Every single fan could be arrested and banned for life.
    Motorway speeding. Many people exceed 70 most of the time.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,627
    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    ISTR that in previous strikes managers have drive trains and done other jobs to keep parts of the network going. Many managers started off at lower grades, and keep their skills up-to-date (e.g. managers in charge of training). Since the early days of BR, 'managers' on the railways tended to include a lot of roles that we might not traditionally see as managerial, often at unions' insistence.
    The railways have changed a lot - lots of non railway management brought in. But that would not necessarily change the point you make. But as Dixiedean says the managers may be striking too ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/09/rail-managers-to-be-balloted-on-strike-action
    The railways may well be on a mission to show us how they have become less important over the last 20 years.
    It may have slipped past them, but swathes of commuter business only needs a small push to become WFH.
    They are grubby hot tubes of potentially infection generating over priced unpleasantness.
    They are much use as a GP barricaded in their surgery refusing to see patients until 3 months time.
    Both are racing to find the quickest way to oblivion.
    Do you live in London? That's a very commutercentric view.
    No
    The commuter traffic is the business that a strike will put into jeopardy. Be it into London, Manchester or any ither city.
    For longer distance travel there is a strong case for a better rail service
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
    But not by mobs preventing the rule of law.

    If you disagree with the law get it changed
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,051
    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Those who want Boris Johnson gone and those who are helping him to cling on can agree that the Tories have landed themselves in the worst of all worlds.

    At a time when Britain faces a daunting array of economic, social and international challenges, it should greatly trouble everyone else that an already desperate and dysfunctional premiership will become even more so.

    The number casting a ballot against him would have been higher, perhaps a majority, if more Tory MPs had been convinced by any of the alternatives. It is quite the indictment of their party, and especially of the cabinet, that 211 Conservative MPs apparently think that they cannot offer the country a better leader than a law-breaking liar.

    The Conservative party’s supposed ruthlessness about dispatching busted leaders is a bit of a myth. Only in one case in the past 20 years, the removal of Iain Duncan Smith in 2003, has a failing leader been deposed cleanly with one lethal shot. The many mediocrities in the Johnson cabinet, handpicked not for ability but for slavishness, will never tell him to go because they will only keep their jobs for as long as he hangs on to his. One despairing senior Tory fulminates: “My judgment of the entire cabinet is that they are just too cowardly for the job, they are just too fucking cowardly.”

    They have also forgotten an earlier lesson from Mrs Thatcher’s career. Boldness can be rewarding. She seized the top spot in 1975 because she was the only member of Ted Heath’s cabinet to have the guts to challenge him for the leadership. She who wielded the dagger did inherit the crown.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,193

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
    But not by mobs preventing the rule of law.

    If you disagree with the law get it changed
    What’s the difference?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,205
    edited June 12
    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Those who want Boris Johnson gone and those who are helping him to cling on can agree that the Tories have landed themselves in the worst of all worlds.

    At a time when Britain faces a daunting array of economic, social and international challenges, it should greatly trouble everyone else that an already desperate and dysfunctional premiership will become even more so.

    The number casting a ballot against him would have been higher, perhaps a majority, if more Tory MPs had been convinced by any of the alternatives. It is quite the indictment of their party, and especially of the cabinet, that 211 Conservative MPs apparently think that they cannot offer the country a better leader than a law-breaking liar.

    The Conservative party’s supposed ruthlessness about dispatching busted leaders is a bit of a myth. Only in one case in the past 20 years, the removal of Iain Duncan Smith in 2003, has a failing leader been deposed cleanly with one lethal shot. The many mediocrities in the Johnson cabinet, handpicked not for ability but for slavishness, will never tell him to go because they will only keep their jobs for as long as he hangs on to his. One despairing senior Tory fulminates: “My judgment of the entire cabinet is that they are just too cowardly for the job, they are just too fucking cowardly.”

    They have also forgotten an earlier lesson from Mrs Thatcher’s career. Boldness can be rewarding. She seized the top spot in 1975 because she was the only member of Ted Heath’s cabinet to have the guts to challenge him for the leadership. She who wielded the dagger did inherit the crown.

    Seems spot on

    And good morning
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    philiph said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    ISTR that in previous strikes managers have drive trains and done other jobs to keep parts of the network going. Many managers started off at lower grades, and keep their skills up-to-date (e.g. managers in charge of training). Since the early days of BR, 'managers' on the railways tended to include a lot of roles that we might not traditionally see as managerial, often at unions' insistence.
    The railways have changed a lot - lots of non railway management brought in. But that would not necessarily change the point you make. But as Dixiedean says the managers may be striking too ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/09/rail-managers-to-be-balloted-on-strike-action
    The railways may well be on a mission to show us how they have become less important over the last 20 years.
    It may have slipped past them, but swathes of commuter business only needs a small push to become WFH.
    They are grubby hot tubes of potentially infection generating over priced unpleasantness.
    They are much use as a GP barricaded in their surgery refusing to see patients until 3 months time.
    Both are racing to find the quickest way to oblivion.
    Do you live in London? That's a very commutercentric view.
    No
    The commuter traffic is the business that a strike will put into jeopardy. Be it into London, Manchester or any ither city.
    For longer distance travel there is a strong case for a better rail service
    The commuter peaks are a pain for the trains - but you do need a similar network however for urban travel.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    edited June 12
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.
    Pretty much sums up Boris Johnson. No soul. No ideology. No coherence.

    Just a muddled set of knee-jerk reactions to the latest crisis with the sole aim of holding onto power.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,081
    Boris Johnson’s spineless cabinet of mediocrities are too feeble to wield the dagger | Andrew Rawnsley https://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2022/jun/12/boris-johnson-spineless-cabinet-too-feeble-to-wield-dagger?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,487
    edited June 12

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People power, once again, prevents a person being taken away for alleged immigration related offences. This is a good thing. Expect more direct action like this and expect it to be co ordinated. People have had enough,

    https://news.sky.com/story/peckham-man-arrested-for-immigration-offences-released-after-protesters-block-van-12632214

    So rule of law should be ignored? What price democracy?
    The Police folded like a pack of cards. How can you uphold democracy when the Police are so spineless.
    That’s a different point (although the police should be upholding the law not democracy)

    It’s not a good thing that a mob intervenes to obstruct the police in the lawful execution of their duties
    Laws are selectively enforced all the bloody time
    But not by mobs preventing the rule of law.

    If you disagree with the law get it changed
    I'm not convinced that the current government is best placed to lecture the public on the importance of the rule of law.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    Same with the TV. For every Dad’s Army there’s a Come Back Mrs Noah.

    For,every cutting edge Play for Today there’s a stinker.

    Watching seventies TOTP episodes is really illuminating.

    People recall fondly the classics but forget the duds.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,205
    I fear the country is heading into a real fight with the unions v government arguing over who runs UK

    I hope this does not descend into shades of the miners strike, but there are indicators it may be

    Nandy and Streeting seem to have upset the apple cart by backing the strikes, while Starmer goes awol, and Reeves struggles on Sophie to answer the direct question on whether she would support the strike

    I do not know if the conservatives will regain a poll lead, but the fact the question is even being asked seems extraordinary in view of the economic and political crisis engulfing our country and just why labour are not out of sight

    I suspect the public may well consider labour do not have the answer either, other than to throw billions at it
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,047


    So this is where the Spartans and Syracusans build a boom in aug sept 413 trapping the Athenian fleet in the great harbour to the right and destroying them.
    All because that muppet Nicias thought lunar eclipses were messages from the gods.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    Can anyone think of a less ideologically coherent Prime Minister than Johnson?

    Love or loathe, Maggie had it in spades. Her predecessor Jim Callaghan was coherently Left. John Major was a cloth-head over the ERM but had a soft right coherence, borne of his Brixton background. I didn't particularly like Tony Blair but there's no denying his brand of New Labour mush and guff, which Brown mostly continued. David Cameron aped Blair and brought the same kind of Cool Britannia soft right to the tory party. Even Theresa May, who was a bit of a ditherer, had a right wing brand.

    No one knows where Boris Johnson stands on anything. Probably because he doesn't himself. No one in the Conservative Party (or the country) knows what has come before and what will happen next and hence we have a mass of incoherent policies often at total variance: Green one minute, capitalist laissez-faire the next. Both internationalist and nationalistic, High tax, high spend conservativism (uh ... wtf?!) and so I could go on and on. A complete jumblesale of policies.

    And on top of this he combines it with chaotic leadership, disorganisation, laziness and lack of attention to detail.

    I know he has been dealt a bad hand but I have never known such an incoherent and unsettling premiership in my lifetime.

    And with that I wish you all a good day. I'm off out for a walk.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    It’s all to appear to be doing something.
    Pretty much sums up Boris Johnson. No soul. No ideology. No coherence.

    Just a muddled set of knee-jerk reactions to the latest crisis with the sole aim of holding onto power.

    There is nothing that defines Johnson or his brand of conservativism. It’s power for the Sake of it with no aim or purpose.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,498

    July is also the month that workers paid less than the header's author will get a pay boost from Rishi raising the NIC threshold.

    Doesn't it only reset NIC back to where it was in March? With the soaring CoL I can't see people being appreciative of it...
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,044

    I fear the country is heading into a real fight with the unions v government arguing over who runs UK

    I hope this does not descend into shades of the miners strike, but there are indicators it may be

    Nandy and Streeting seem to have upset the apple cart by backing the strikes, while Starmer goes awol, and Reeves struggles on Sophie to answer the direct question on whether she would support the strike

    I do not know if the conservatives will regain a poll lead, but the fact the question is even being asked seems extraordinary in view of the economic and political crisis engulfing our country and just why labour are not out of sight

    I suspect the public may well consider labour do not have the answer either, other than to throw billions at it

    Right on cue

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18856374/rail-wreckers-labours-top-brass/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,047

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    This plan to get agency staff for the Railways?
    AIUI, agency staff are in short supply everywhere. And they are turning down work right now.
    So. Where do they come from?

    It shows how little they actual understand about the things they are supposedly in charge of.

    I don’t believe there is such a thing as a qualified agency signalman and even if they did exist they won’t be qualified to run anything as all signal boxes require site specific knowledge that takes time to get
    I am sure there are some non technical roles agency staff could do, but it seems a bit desperate.
    Especially as one needs a certain minimum number of signalmen, for instance, to keep the railways running. And one can't simply make them work overtime. Classic disaster trigger (e.g. a signalling engineer caused a disaster by leaving some bare wiring in a signalbox as a result of being grossly overworked).

    If I were a manager I wouldn't touch any derogation of regulations, either. That would be to accept liability for the ensuing crash.
    Shades of Abermiwl, where untrained staff accidentally allowed a train onto a section which already contained an oncoming express, with disastrous consequences.
    Quite (once I had worked out that this is the correct orthography for the location in question, which is better known in railway books by its anglicised version). But the problem remains, as with the signalling engineer incident (1988).

    This threat to bring in blacklegs is so stupid, a few managers aside, that it must be a deliberate Tory attempt to inflame the strike and get better ratings for Big Dog.
    It’s like an eighties greatest hits tour. We are already seeing pieces in big dog friendly papers about how labour MPs who support the strike have taken money from the Rail Unions.
    Seventies, soon, with the power cuts and oil crisis.
    Oh, "but the music".

    For every magic memory by the Sex Pistols and The Clash there were ten by Joe Dolce, Paper Lace, Boney M, Rick Dees with his "Disco Duck"....
    I think Rivers of Babylon is fab

    And if that doesn't give you an earworm, Rasputin

    Thinking about it they are the black Abba
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,115

    Alaska 2022 Special Congressional Election Primary - top four candidates advance to Aug 16 special (ranked choice) election (same day as regular Alaska primary):

    Ballots counted = 67,650 as of 9.15pm Fri Alaska time (about half of what were returned as of Friday)
    > here are the current leaders so far:

    Sara Palin (Republican) 23,844 (35.3%)
    > former governor & VP nomineee
    Nick Begich (Republican) 12,784 (18.9%)
    > member of prominent Alaska Democratic political family
    Al Gross 8,852 (Nonpartisan) 8,852 (13.1%)
    >Democratic US Senate nominee in 2020
    Mary Peltola (Democratic) 4,609 (6.8%)
    > former state representative and inter-tribal fisheries commissioner
    Santa Claus (Undeclared) 3,074 (4.6%)
    > city councilman from North Pole (naturlly) and declared Democratic Socialist (ditto)
    Tara Sweeney (Republican) 2,324 (3.4%)
    > ex-asst sec. of Interior & head of Bureau of Indian affairs under Trump
    Joshua Revak (Republican) 1,218 (1.8%)
    > state senator

    On basis of above, Palin clearly will advance to general election ballot, along with Begich, Gross and probably Peltola.

    So as it's FPTP in the second round, we can look forward to Senator Palin?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,945

    Alaska 2022 Special Congressional Election Primary - top four candidates advance to Aug 16 special (ranked choice) election (same day as regular Alaska primary):

    Ballots counted = 67,650 as of 9.15pm Fri Alaska time (about half of what were returned as of Friday)
    > here are the current leaders so far:

    Sara Palin (Republican) 23,844 (35.3%)
    > former governor & VP nomineee
    Nick Begich (Republican) 12,784 (18.9%)
    > member of prominent Alaska Democratic political family
    Al Gross 8,852 (Nonpartisan) 8,852 (13.1%)
    >Democratic US Senate nominee in 2020
    Mary Peltola (Democratic) 4,609 (6.8%)
    > former state representative and inter-tribal fisheries commissioner
    Santa Claus (Undeclared) 3,074 (4.6%)
    > city councilman from North Pole (naturlly) and declared Democratic Socialist (ditto)
    Tara Sweeney (Republican) 2,324 (3.4%)
    > ex-asst sec. of Interior & head of Bureau of Indian affairs under Trump
    Joshua Revak (Republican) 1,218 (1.8%)
    > state senator

    On basis of above, Palin clearly will advance to general election ballot, along with Begich, Gross and probably Peltola.

    So as it's FPTP in the second round, we can look forward to Senator Palin?
    It's STV second round.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,028
    On topic, there wil be a Tory poll lead about a fortnight after fuel duty gets suspended.
This discussion has been closed.