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The polling that should scare Tory MPs – politicalbetting.com

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    If the earth has little to no atmosphere, that would make sense. I'm not sure about that though. In the time of earliest rock formation, I'd have thought there would be more gas around because of volcanic degassing. But IANAE.
    A while back I heard a theory that the Earth has had three very distinct and totally different atmospheres, at least if the Theia Impact theory of Moon formation is correct. A primal sparse atmosphere would have formed very soon after the Earth coalesced - and even perhaps as it was coalescing.

    Then Theia impacted 4.5 billion years ago, and that sparse atmosphere was obliterated. The Earth and Moon coalesced from the debris, and a molten rock atmosphere existed around Earth (perhaps molten silicates) for many decades. As this slowly lost energy and 'sank' back to Earth, a final atmosphere could develop.

    That atmosphere was the basis of the one we have today, although much altered due to things like the great oxidation event.

    It's an intriguing thought: a molten rock atmosphere. But there is so much we do not know about those early years, and precious few rocks to show us.
    Having a wild and unlikely history might help with the Fermi paradox. I really like that sort of Blue Sky (aka Tyndall) thinking.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    My Great, Great, Great? Uncle was John Tyndall who was the bloke who discovered why the sky is blue. It is known as 'Tyndall Blue'. Amongst many other things. I have some of his books and notes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyndall
    Did he ever write a song for Diana Ross? No? Well then, sit doon.
    That was James.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    My Great, Great, Great? Uncle was John Tyndall who was the bloke who discovered why the sky is blue. It is known as 'Tyndall Blue'. Amongst many other things. I have some of his books and notes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyndall
    My god, what a mensch

    Pioneering mountain climber, brilliant scientist, famous educationalist, passionate Unionist

    One of those Renaissance Victorians that makes you think you’ve wasted your own life entirely
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another one for the British exceptionalists.

    http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=330334
    … If Nuri succeeds in its second launch, Korea will be the seventh country to launch a space rocket with its own technology, following Russia, the United States, France, China, Japan and India, which possess the independent capability of placing an over 1-ton satellite into orbit.…

    Of itself not a massive thing, but another indication we’re drifting down the league table of advanced industrial economies.

    Eh? Black Arrow for the UK in 1971 - but launched from Woomera in Oz [albeit a joint UK/Aus base]; and Prospero, the satellite, was (on checking) 146 kg.
    “1 tonne…”

    And what happened to Black Arrow ?
    (a) the primary clause of the sentence is not qualified by the second, if you read it. "country to launch a space rocket with its own technology" is fulfilled by Prospero.

    The bit re weight is added later, as effectively a second sentence.

    As for what happened to BA: museums. And some concrete on the Isle of Wight.
    Incidentally, we may be having a second satellite 'launched' from UK territory soon. Virgin Orbit (the slightly less dumb twin of the awful Virgin Galactic) is due to launch a Welsh satellite from Cornwall this summer.

    https://www.virgin.com/about-virgin/latest/virgin-orbit-to-launch-first-welsh-satellite-from-spaceport-cornwall

    (Virgin Galactic is their sub-orbital jam-making enterprise. Virgin Orbit launches up to 500kg to LEO from a converted 747. Still probably fiscal merde as it is not scalable, but at least they have successfully got to orbit twice.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    This is not a great development for international stability.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1533423233726398465
    US-backed #SDF leader says he would coordinate with #Assad to confront a #Turkey invasion of Tel Rifat & #Manbij.

    So long as #Turkey-#PKK hostility continues, this was always the direction things would go. It’s moved at a snail’s pace, but it’s moved.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    There needs to be an immediate Western focus on this stuff - send in non-military hit squads to re-enable key infrastructure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Is this genuine ?
    If so, an interesting read.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1533476836860170250
    Tory MPs who want Johnson out have this weekend been circulating a briefing document setting out why. It warns the party is on course to lose the next election & concludes “the only way to end this misery, earn a hearing from the British public… is to remove Boris Johnson as PM”
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Nigelb said:

    Is this genuine ?
    If so, an interesting read.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1533476836860170250
    Tory MPs who want Johnson out have this weekend been circulating a briefing document setting out why. It warns the party is on course to lose the next election & concludes “the only way to end this misery, earn a hearing from the British public… is to remove Boris Johnson as PM”

    I don't think it is genuine. It's far too obvious. Genuine or not though it's broadly right.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Nigelb said:

    Is this genuine ?
    If so, an interesting read.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1533476836860170250
    Tory MPs who want Johnson out have this weekend been circulating a briefing document setting out why. It warns the party is on course to lose the next election & concludes “the only way to end this misery, earn a hearing from the British public… is to remove Boris Johnson as PM”

    It is genuine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’ll end with a really tough one

    No Google Lensing!


    Looks like the arse end of somewhere…
    The crack of beyond.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    edited June 2022
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    The most remarkable thing is Russia is committing total imperialism / fascism 101, now including global hunger blackmail, textbook Bengal famine style shithousery you might say, and South African and Indian Twitter is all “Russia is just defending itself, this is NATO’s fault”. It’s like the “remoaners’ fault we’re not in the single market” on international steroids.
    Or engaging in whataboutery, as if Western sins in Iraq (which many condemned around the globe) cancels out not commenting on Russian sins.

    Janan Ganesh had an interesting take.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Great save!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    The most remarkable thing is Russia is committing total imperialism / fascism 101, now including global hunger blackmail, textbook Bengal famine style shithousery you might say, and South African and Indian Twitter is all “Russia is just defending itself, this is NATO’s fault”. It’s like the “remoaners’ fault we’re not in the single market” on international steroids.
    Yup, any Brit defending Russia should be stripped of their UK citizenship and deported to Rwanda.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    Blackmail does tend to work.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    Blackmail does tend to work.
    It doesn't, because nobody likes to be blackmailed, incentive based decision making on the other hand...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    The most remarkable thing is Russia is committing total imperialism / fascism 101, now including global hunger blackmail, textbook Bengal famine style shithousery you might say, and South African and Indian Twitter is all “Russia is just defending itself, this is NATO’s fault”. It’s like the “remoaners’ fault we’re not in the single market” on international steroids.
    Or engaging in whataboutery, as if Western sins in Iraq (which many condemned around the globe) cancels out not commenting on Russian sins.

    Janan Ganesh had an interesting take.
    It's only because of what gets posted on here that I'm aware of some of this stuff. The broadcast media have no interest whatsoever in pointing out these things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia has destroyed a major Ukrainian grain export terminal in Mykolaiv that plays a crucial role in international food security. This targeted attack is further evidence that Putin is weaponising global famine in a bid to blackmail the international community
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1533382115336790016

    Blackmail does tend to work.
    It doesn't, because nobody likes to be blackmailed, incentive based decision making on the other hand...
    It works in the short term, which is clearly the only thinking Russia has engaged in, and which many leaders around the world are engaging in when seeking so obviously to end things as quickly as possible, regardless of price.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Leon said:

    Ok I’ll end with a really tough one

    No Google Lensing!


    Please don't tell us that's your ex-wife.
    So long as not daughter.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    edited June 2022
    Is it now almost certain that Russia will be forced back to the borders of the war as it was on 23rd February? I find it increasingly difficult to see how they are going to maintain any territory in which the civilian population wants them out. A combination of western artillery, overwhelming troop numbers and partisan activity behind the lines should be making Russian commanders very very nervous. Even if Putin tries mass mobilisation he's months behind in the game. I've never understood the idea that Ukraine CAN'T win. If the Americans can be forced out of Vietnam, the Soviets forced out of Afghanistan and Britain from Basra, why not Russia from Ukraine?

    One other point that for all the support Ukraine is getting they are being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. The US is providing artillery on the explicit understanding that it is not used to target Russia, so Ukraine is unable to fully defend itself by attacking enemy territory as enshrined under the UN Charter 1951. You have to feel for them somewhat. There are of course those who prefer to feel sorry for the ex KGB ethno-nationalists controlling Russia who may end up feeling 'humiliated' by such an outcome to the war. It's nice to see people reveal their true characters though.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,251
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    Isn’t what we see as “blue” just the refraction of sunlight through the atmosphere. So pre-atmosphere it would be black?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Damn you, Welsh goalie.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    Is it now almost certain that Russia will be forced back to the borders of the war as it was on 23rd February? I find it increasingly difficult to see how they are going to maintain any territory in which the civilian population wants them out. A combination of western artillery, overwhelming troop numbers and partisan activity behind the lines should be making Russian commanders very very nervous. Even if Putin tries mass mobilisation he's months behind in the game. I've never understood the idea that Ukraine CAN'T win. If the Americans can be forced out of Vietnam, the Soviets forced out of Afghanistan and Britain from Basra, why not Russia from Ukraine?

    One other point that for all the support Ukraine is getting they are being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. The US is providing artillery on the explicit understanding that it is not used to target Russia, so Ukraine is unable to fully defend itself by attacking enemy territory as enshrined under the UN Charter 1951. You have to feel for them somewhat. There are of course those who prefer to feel sorry for the ex KGB ethno-nationalists controlling Russia who may end up feeling 'humiliated' by such an outcome. It's nice to see people reveal their true characters though.

    My entirely ignorant gut feeling is that Putin will shortly feel that his forces have acquired as much territory as they can, and he will then 'magnanimously' declare a ceasefire in the interests of peace. Ukraine will then face intense pressure from some allies to halt any activity (if they are even able to contemplate counter-offensive), and since they are providing weapons Ukraine may not be able to go against that.

    Then the situation drags on, Russia digs in and gets to keep hold of most of the areas it has gained, possibly making a 'concession' of allowing those who want to leave to do so.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    My Great, Great, Great? Uncle was John Tyndall who was the bloke who discovered why the sky is blue. It is known as 'Tyndall Blue'. Amongst many other things. I have some of his books and notes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyndall
    My god, what a mensch

    Pioneering mountain climber, brilliant scientist, famous educationalist, passionate Unionist

    One of those Renaissance Victorians that makes you think you’ve wasted your own life entirely
    Tyndall's climate message, 150 years on:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15093234
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Sandpit said:

    Damn you, Welsh goalie.

    Fuck the Welsh.

    Probably the only time I've ever agreed with Tony Blair.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Sandpit said:

    Damn you, Welsh goalie.

    Fuck the Welsh.

    Probably the only time I've ever agreed with Tony Blair.
    Didn't you, like Blair, marry a Scouser?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    Sounds interesting. My weekend reading is Jacob Dunne's "Right and Wrong" a very thoughtful autobiography of a young man going straight after life on the fringes of the Nottingham gangs. Far more upbeat than it sounds.
    Just had a quick look at a few reviews - sounds very interesting - thanks @Foxy
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    Don't especially disagree with any of this, which is partly true of any individual in a dissonant or liminal situation. Reflect on what a proportion of interesting and challenging literature (and other achievements) of the last 100 years is done by people who are exiles, refugees, dislocated, minority etc.

    Self-censorship is normal to a civilized community, and universal. However taken beyond a certain point it is damaging rather than essential. But in our world is it not standing up in favour of imperialism that is more marginalised and self-censored.

    But one neglected issue is this. A friend of mine's late wife was a member of a particular marginal identity in India who regarded the Indian state as it now is as the occupying imperial power. This is one personal example of a global fact. Imperial history is the norm not the exception, at virtually all times and places. Reflect upon the Greeks, Macedonians, Persians, Romans, the history of Ukraine, China etc, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Russians etc.

    The odd time is ours when the imperial past is questioned and critically appraised and assumed to be both bad and gone. A think we need an agenda of more genuine diversity and inclusion, but hesitate to think we shall get one.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Damn you, Welsh goalie.

    Fuck the Welsh.

    Probably the only time I've ever agreed with Tony Blair.
    Didn't you, like Blair, marry a Scouser?
    I married a plastic Scouser.

    I think Mrs Blair can be argued is also a plazzy Scouser, born in Bury.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Congratulations to Wales.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Well done Mark Drakefords boys.

    Great to see England and Wales in World Cup
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    My Great, Great, Great? Uncle was John Tyndall who was the bloke who discovered why the sky is blue. It is known as 'Tyndall Blue'. Amongst many other things. I have some of his books and notes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyndall
    My god, what a mensch

    Pioneering mountain climber, brilliant scientist, famous educationalist, passionate Unionist

    One of those Renaissance Victorians that makes you think you’ve wasted your own life entirely
    That was what people did before there were smartphones and the internet.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Well done Mark Drakefords boys.

    Great to see England and Wales in World Cup

    Don't forget Scotland, they know which three teams, at least, they will be cheering for now.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    kle4 said:

    Is it now almost certain that Russia will be forced back to the borders of the war as it was on 23rd February? I find it increasingly difficult to see how they are going to maintain any territory in which the civilian population wants them out. A combination of western artillery, overwhelming troop numbers and partisan activity behind the lines should be making Russian commanders very very nervous. Even if Putin tries mass mobilisation he's months behind in the game. I've never understood the idea that Ukraine CAN'T win. If the Americans can be forced out of Vietnam, the Soviets forced out of Afghanistan and Britain from Basra, why not Russia from Ukraine?

    One other point that for all the support Ukraine is getting they are being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. The US is providing artillery on the explicit understanding that it is not used to target Russia, so Ukraine is unable to fully defend itself by attacking enemy territory as enshrined under the UN Charter 1951. You have to feel for them somewhat. There are of course those who prefer to feel sorry for the ex KGB ethno-nationalists controlling Russia who may end up feeling 'humiliated' by such an outcome. It's nice to see people reveal their true characters though.

    My entirely ignorant gut feeling is that Putin will shortly feel that his forces have acquired as much territory as they can, and he will then 'magnanimously' declare a ceasefire in the interests of peace. Ukraine will then face intense pressure from some allies to halt any activity (if they are even able to contemplate counter-offensive), and since they are providing weapons Ukraine may not be able to go against that.

    Then the situation drags on, Russia digs in and gets to keep hold of most of the areas it has gained, possibly making a 'concession' of allowing those who want to leave to do so.
    I can't see the US/UK and plenty of others who have supplied weapons suddenly demanding Ukraine sue for peace on current boundaries. Some others might but so what? So long as a sufficient number of countries continue to supply Ukraine they will fight on. I doubt they'll stop using weapons the French have already provided.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    They would have been in England's group so by your logic Emgland would have been Putins little helpers.

    Muppet
  • Well done for Wales for qualifying for the World Cup.

    Albeit by playing against a team that hadn't played any professional football in about six months, so nobody could possibly fail to beat them, could they?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    They would have been in England's group so by your logic Emgland would have been Putins little helpers.

    Muppet
    Nah, I wanted England to lose the match against Ukraine.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    They would have been in England's group so by your logic Emgland would have been Putins little helpers.

    Muppet
    Nah, I wanted England to lose the match against Ukraine.
    Unpatriotic
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    They would have been in England's group so by your logic Emgland would have been Putins little helpers.

    Muppet
    Nah, I wanted England to lose the match against Ukraine.
    Unpatriotic
    Nah, we would have played Ukraine last, we would have beaten Iran and USA! USA! USA! in the first two games and qualified for the knockout stages, it would have been a dead rubber for us.

    (Yes, 2010 and 1950 are rolling their eyes at me.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Well done for Wales for qualifying for the World Cup.

    Albeit by playing against a team that hadn't played any professional football in about six months, so nobody could possibly fail to beat them, could they?

    They'd played Scotland!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828

    Well done Mark Drakefords boys.

    Great to see England and Wales in World Cup

    Don't forget Scotland, they know which three teams, at least, they will be cheering for now.
    Spare a thought for the Scots. I can't imagine the US Iran and Wales were the teams they'd be hoping to support.

    Still it is a strange feeling to qualify for the world cup for the first time in my lifetime and I can't help but feel a bit..... I don't know exactly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Well done for Wales for qualifying for the World Cup.

    Albeit by playing against a team that hadn't played any professional football in about six months, so nobody could possibly fail to beat them, could they?

    They'd played Scotland!
    The joke^

    Your head
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Is this genuine ?
    If so, an interesting read.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1533476836860170250
    Tory MPs who want Johnson out have this weekend been circulating a briefing document setting out why. It warns the party is on course to lose the next election & concludes “the only way to end this misery, earn a hearing from the British public… is to remove Boris Johnson as PM”

    It is genuine.
    Well it does seem to be a case where stating the obvious is what’s required.
    It might even get into the skulls of a few Tory MPs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    Don't especially disagree with any of this, which is partly true of any individual in a dissonant or liminal situation. Reflect on what a proportion of interesting and challenging literature (and other achievements) of the last 100 years is done by people who are exiles, refugees, dislocated, minority etc.

    Self-censorship is normal to a civilized community, and universal. However taken beyond a certain point it is damaging rather than essential. But in our world is it not standing up in favour of imperialism that is more marginalised and self-censored.

    But one neglected issue is this. A friend of mine's late wife was a member of a particular marginal identity in India who regarded the Indian state as it now is as the occupying imperial power. This is one personal example of a global fact. Imperial history is the norm not the exception, at virtually all times and places. Reflect upon the Greeks, Macedonians, Persians, Romans, the history of Ukraine, China etc, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Russians etc.

    The odd time is ours when the imperial past is questioned and critically appraised and assumed to be both bad and gone. A think we need an agenda of more genuine diversity and inclusion, but hesitate to think we shall get one.

    Just before the Ukraine invasion began, we were having a discussion of imperialism in PB. It was interesting to see who was offended/upset by the idea of Chinese and Russian Imperialism. Despite the long and explicit history of both.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,630

    Is it now almost certain that Russia will be forced back to the borders of the war as it was on 23rd February? I find it increasingly difficult to see how they are going to maintain any territory in which the civilian population wants them out. A combination of western artillery, overwhelming troop numbers and partisan activity behind the lines should be making Russian commanders very very nervous. Even if Putin tries mass mobilisation he's months behind in the game. I've never understood the idea that Ukraine CAN'T win. If the Americans can be forced out of Vietnam, the Soviets forced out of Afghanistan and Britain from Basra, why not Russia from Ukraine?

    One other point that for all the support Ukraine is getting they are being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. The US is providing artillery on the explicit understanding that it is not used to target Russia, so Ukraine is unable to fully defend itself by attacking enemy territory as enshrined under the UN Charter 1951. You have to feel for them somewhat. There are of course those who prefer to feel sorry for the ex KGB ethno-nationalists controlling Russia who may end up feeling 'humiliated' by such an outcome to the war. It's nice to see people reveal their true characters though.

    The US ambassador to Ukraine said that any missile systems firing from within Russia would be legitimate targets, so I don't think the public message about not attacking inside Russia necessarily means there is any prohibition on Ukraine doing this.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Photo quiz 2


    No Google lensing!



    Saklikent
    Nope
    I Lensed it after my guess so I think I know it now. So I'll stay schtum.
    Obviously somewhere hot and sweaty with a Med-type climate, but the water body obviously fluctuates in depth - tidal or a reservoir or river with winter vs summer? There's a fair current, too. Not obviously volcanic (tho could be tuff beds) so not clear if a crater. Colorado River or Galapagos, Isla Fernando?
    Way off, I’m afraid. Without Lensing it is quite a tough one, not a well known place, however majestic the scenery

    Clue: the rocks are really really old. When I was there an expert told me the rocks are so old that they were formed when the sky was still pitch black, not blue. An idea which still makes my head spin, in a pleasurable way
    So they formed at night?
    Hah, no

    Apparently earth’s sky used to be permanently black. Or so this guy said. And he was the ship’s expert (another clue)

    Thinking about it now, does that make sense? Was the Sun just a massively bright star surrounded by darkness? WTF?
    The sky would be black if there was no atmosphere. Suppose the atmosphere would have come later, outgassed from the Earth's interior, after the first surface rocks cooled, perhaps. Not sure if the sequence of planetary formation is that detailed, unless there's some effect on the earliest rocks of being exposed to solar radiation without an atmosphere that would be a clue.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036

    Sandpit said:

    Damn you, Welsh goalie.

    Fuck the Welsh.

    Probably the only time I've ever agreed with Tony Blair.
    When did he say that? I'm not doubting, just wondering re the context.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    edited June 2022
    Someone earlier said that today marked the passing of an era.

    I think that they had a point.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    This sounds like an interesting book. I would not dismiss it just because it could be regarded as 'woke'. Identity is a complex issue. The problem is that people have a tendency to look for simple, all encompassing explanatory narratives that 'solve' a problem. But in reality, these can often do far more harm than good. Not linked to race, but an example, is the idea that people who identify as victims of domestic violence must always be believed. No one feels that they can disagree with it. But it is not a good route to go down as recent events over the last few weeks have demonstrated. Nor is it good to generalise about people based on race - including white people, or to present colonialism and empire as a uniquely white concept; however strongly people feel this to be the case.

    In the end, creating a successful multicultural society is a massive, ever changing experiment and that is just the reality that we live in. You have to listen to people, and do the best you can, and just accept that it is very difficult and there are no simple answers. Sadly, in a battle of ideas, such an outlook is unlikely to win out when there are ideologues on both sides with more superficially attractive answers.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Well done Mark Drakefords boys.

    Great to see England and Wales in World Cup

    Don't forget Scotland, they know which three teams, at least, they will be cheering for now.
    Spare a thought for the Scots. I can't imagine the US Iran and Wales were the teams they'd be hoping to support.

    Still it is a strange feeling to qualify for the world cup for the first time in my lifetime and I can't help but feel a bit..... I don't know exactly.
    All Ukraine will be supporting Wales and there is nothing Putin can do about it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is this genuine ?
    If so, an interesting read.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1533476836860170250
    Tory MPs who want Johnson out have this weekend been circulating a briefing document setting out why. It warns the party is on course to lose the next election & concludes “the only way to end this misery, earn a hearing from the British public… is to remove Boris Johnson as PM”

    It is genuine.
    Well it does seem to be a case where stating the obvious is what’s required.
    It might even get into the skulls of a few Tory MPs.
    It's a mixture of things, the tipping point was the lack of contrition after the Partygate report.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    Don't especially disagree with any of this, which is partly true of any individual in a dissonant or liminal situation. Reflect on what a proportion of interesting and challenging literature (and other achievements) of the last 100 years is done by people who are exiles, refugees, dislocated, minority etc.

    Self-censorship is normal to a civilized community, and universal. However taken beyond a certain point it is damaging rather than essential. But in our world is it not standing up in favour of imperialism that is more marginalised and self-censored.

    But one neglected issue is this. A friend of mine's late wife was a member of a particular marginal identity in India who regarded the Indian state as it now is as the occupying imperial power. This is one personal example of a global fact. Imperial history is the norm not the exception, at virtually all times and places. Reflect upon the Greeks, Macedonians, Persians, Romans, the history of Ukraine, China etc, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Russians etc.

    The odd time is ours when the imperial past is questioned and critically appraised and assumed to be both bad and gone. A think we need an agenda of more genuine diversity and inclusion, but hesitate to think we shall get one.

    Just before the Ukraine invasion began, we were having a discussion of imperialism in PB. It was interesting to see who was offended/upset by the idea of Chinese and Russian Imperialism. Despite the long and explicit history of both.
    This map is also in a way a legacy of empire (not ours).
    https://twitter.com/SteveStuWill/status/1532753978253094914

    Given the absurd importance it lends to Russia (not really a concern at the time, as sea routes were what everyone was interested in), it ought to be consigned to history.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    Damn you, Welsh goalie.

    Fuck the Welsh.

    Probably the only time I've ever agreed with Tony Blair.
    When did he say that? I'm not doubting, just wondering re the context.
    Apologies to Tony Blair, it wasn't 'fuck the Welsh' it was 'fucking Welsh*

    Downing Street has censored a former No 10 spin doctor's claims that Tony Blair swore and ranted about Wales during the first National Assembly election, it was claimed yesterday.

    Lance Price, a former press officer to the Prime Minister, claimed Mr Blair flew into a rage at terrible Labour results in the 1999 election.

    He claims an enraged Mr Blair bawled about the '******* Welsh' as Labour came second to Plaid Cymru in a series of former strongholds.

    Alun Michael, lined up as Assembly leader at the time, described the claims as 'total garbage' yesterday. He also sought to dismiss an allegation he was 'exiled' to the Assembly, following MP Ron Davies's departure from front-line politics.

    The Spin Doctor's Diary, serialised in the Mail on Sunday, is billed as a blow-by-blow insight into the way Mr Blair runs the country.

    The paper said No 10 ordered Mr Price to remove or rewrite a number of passages, including Mr Blair's outburst against the Welsh and the Prime Minister's 'relish' at sending troops to Iraq.

    An entry on the 1999 elections originally said, "******* Welsh' repeated many times by TB.' That has been changed to, 'TB f-ing and blinding about the whole thing.'

    Labour's poor showing in the inaugural Assembly election was widely considered to be self-inflicted. Core supporters deserted the party for sidelining the popular Rhodri Morgan and appointing the Blairite Mr Michael as candidate for First Secretary.


    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/blairs-crude-rant-against-welsh-2378149
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    Don't especially disagree with any of this, which is partly true of any individual in a dissonant or liminal situation. Reflect on what a proportion of interesting and challenging literature (and other achievements) of the last 100 years is done by people who are exiles, refugees, dislocated, minority etc.

    Self-censorship is normal to a civilized community, and universal. However taken beyond a certain point it is damaging rather than essential. But in our world is it not standing up in favour of imperialism that is more marginalised and self-censored.

    But one neglected issue is this. A friend of mine's late wife was a member of a particular marginal identity in India who regarded the Indian state as it now is as the occupying imperial power. This is one personal example of a global fact. Imperial history is the norm not the exception, at virtually all times and places. Reflect upon the Greeks, Macedonians, Persians, Romans, the history of Ukraine, China etc, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Russians etc.

    The odd time is ours when the imperial past is questioned and critically appraised and assumed to be both bad and gone. A think we need an agenda of more genuine diversity and inclusion, but hesitate to think we shall get one.

    Just before the Ukraine invasion began, we were having a discussion of imperialism in PB. It was interesting to see who was offended/upset by the idea of Chinese and Russian Imperialism. Despite the long and explicit history of both.
    This map is also in a way a legacy of empire (not ours).
    https://twitter.com/SteveStuWill/status/1532753978253094914

    Given the absurd importance it lends to Russia (not really a concern at the time, as sea routes were what everyone was interested in), it ought to be consigned to history.
    Of course, but could we please use a projection that also looks nice and doesn't distort shapes in an absurd way, such as a Mollweide projection, rather than using the Gall-Peters projection that massively distorts shapes, and is consequently intensely ugly?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    IanB2 said:

    Someone earlier said that today marked the passing of an era.

    I think that they had a point.

    They did. And it's a privilege to be here to see it. Very few get the opportunity.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Someone earlier said that today marked the passing of an era.

    I think that they had a point.

    They did. And it's a privilege to be here to see it. Very few get the opportunity.
    It's not though. It's like a [repeated] advanced warning of the moment when the era will pass, which is still yet in the future.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Someone earlier said that today marked the passing of an era.

    I think that they had a point.

    They did. And it's a privilege to be here to see it. Very few get the opportunity.
    Indeed, nobody in the country will have seen a Platinum Jubilee before and only those alive in the reigns of Victoria and George IIIrd will even have seen a Golden Jubilee
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Well done Mark Drakefords boys.

    Great to see England and Wales in World Cup

    Don't forget Scotland, they know which three teams, at least, they will be cheering for now.
    It's perfectly OK to forget Scotland when it comes to football.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    What sensible can they say or do? You wouldn't want non-drivers subventing drivers through their taxes would you?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    kle4 said:

    Is it now almost certain that Russia will be forced back to the borders of the war as it was on 23rd February? I find it increasingly difficult to see how they are going to maintain any territory in which the civilian population wants them out. A combination of western artillery, overwhelming troop numbers and partisan activity behind the lines should be making Russian commanders very very nervous. Even if Putin tries mass mobilisation he's months behind in the game. I've never understood the idea that Ukraine CAN'T win. If the Americans can be forced out of Vietnam, the Soviets forced out of Afghanistan and Britain from Basra, why not Russia from Ukraine?

    One other point that for all the support Ukraine is getting they are being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. The US is providing artillery on the explicit understanding that it is not used to target Russia, so Ukraine is unable to fully defend itself by attacking enemy territory as enshrined under the UN Charter 1951. You have to feel for them somewhat. There are of course those who prefer to feel sorry for the ex KGB ethno-nationalists controlling Russia who may end up feeling 'humiliated' by such an outcome. It's nice to see people reveal their true characters though.

    My entirely ignorant gut feeling is that Putin will shortly feel that his forces have acquired as much territory as they can, and he will then 'magnanimously' declare a ceasefire in the interests of peace. Ukraine will then face intense pressure from some allies to halt any activity (if they are even able to contemplate counter-offensive), and since they are providing weapons Ukraine may not be able to go against that.

    Then the situation drags on, Russia digs in and gets to keep hold of most of the areas it has gained, possibly making a 'concession' of allowing those who want to leave to do so.
    I can't see the US/UK and plenty of others who have supplied weapons suddenly demanding Ukraine sue for peace on current boundaries. Some others might but so what? So long as a sufficient number of countries continue to supply Ukraine they will fight on. I doubt they'll stop using weapons the French have already provided.
    I hope you're right - the USA is obviously key, if they are willing to keep up supplies even if lesser donors wish to go the Macron route and not 'humiliate' Putin.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    edited June 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    After the last budget labour were complaining that the chancellor did not increase fuel duties and was subsidising motorists not helping save the planet.

    Labour would do little either. What could they do ? Any help would be targetted on the poor anyway. Rightly so.

    The GBP has been in decline against the USD and oil is continuing to increase. $175 a barrel coming our way. We will be looking at 230p-250p a litre and further rising inflation.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    On your bike?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Macron has already humiliated Putin by saying that he shoudn't be humiliated.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    OT: (I value reading the comments on PB because most of you are of a different political hue than me. I'm interested in debating what I write below, particularly if you disagree with it. If you're not interested and frustrated that it's off-topic and non-betting-related, apologies.)

    I've just finished Natasha Brown's excellent short novel Assembly - thoroughly recommended.

    My reading of Brown's novel is that it is about the near impossibility of forming (assembling) a coherent identity as a young black woman. To my mind it is very persuasive - the book is very short but laced with examples where the protagonist has to self-censor her thoughts and views in order to assimilate into a culture that has been largely created by white men and that resists discussing a significant historical aspect of its creation (imperialism).

    I recognise that the process of assimilation into a shared culture requires everyone to self-censor somewhat, but I am persuaded by the argument that, at the intersection of specific groups (women and black people, for example) the need for self-censorship is particularly acute, and therefore damaging to one's social- and self-identity.

    I'm really interested in the responses of those of you who would describe this thinking as woke and so dismiss it. Putting aside the disingenuous elements of the usage of woke (i.e. encouraging a culture war), for those of you who write on here about wokeness as an ideology, what is it that you disagree with in the above? And what reaction do you think individuals, society and government in UK (and elsewhere) should have to such strong feelings of alienation and self-censorship amongst a a significant proportion of that society's members?

    Don't especially disagree with any of this, which is partly true of any individual in a dissonant or liminal situation. Reflect on what a proportion of interesting and challenging literature (and other achievements) of the last 100 years is done by people who are exiles, refugees, dislocated, minority etc.

    Self-censorship is normal to a civilized community, and universal. However taken beyond a certain point it is damaging rather than essential. But in our world is it not standing up in favour of imperialism that is more marginalised and self-censored.

    But one neglected issue is this. A friend of mine's late wife was a member of a particular marginal identity in India who regarded the Indian state as it now is as the occupying imperial power. This is one personal example of a global fact. Imperial history is the norm not the exception, at virtually all times and places. Reflect upon the Greeks, Macedonians, Persians, Romans, the history of Ukraine, China etc, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Russians etc.

    The odd time is ours when the imperial past is questioned and critically appraised and assumed to be both bad and gone. A think we need an agenda of more genuine diversity and inclusion, but hesitate to think we shall get one.

    Just before the Ukraine invasion began, we were having a discussion of imperialism in PB. It was interesting to see who was offended/upset by the idea of Chinese and Russian Imperialism. Despite the long and explicit history of both.
    This map is also in a way a legacy of empire (not ours).
    https://twitter.com/SteveStuWill/status/1532753978253094914

    Given the absurd importance it lends to Russia (not really a concern at the time, as sea routes were what everyone was interested in), it ought to be consigned to history.
    I knew the proportions were much affected by our standard maps, but I confess I did not realise for Russia it was impacted quite that much.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    I think you have to start by admitting that there's a limit to what the government can do, because it's a global issue. Part of the government's problem has been that they've approached it as a problem that they could fix, raising unrealistic expectations.

    Then they can take actions that they can point to as having a positive effect in the long-term, so that once we are through this crisis they can say we are protected from it happening again - so investment in making the transition away from fossil fuels - battery plants, charging stations, that sort of thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    At our local petrol station, diesel had been significantly more expensive than petrol, but I noticed that today they were the same price. Because petrol had risen, not that diesel had fallen.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Gutting for Ukraine who missed so many chances.

    On a happier note congratulations to Wales for ending the long wait to reach another WC, they have some great fans who always act as good ambassadors for their country .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    Nothing of substance. If it could have a simple solution the government would already have done it.

    Labour, when they get back in, at least have the option, for the next 10 years or so, of blaming the last government.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    A lot hopefully. And Labour would do nothing.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,630
    Good thread on the increasingly febrile debate in Russia as it sinks in that the special operation is still a failure.

    https://twitter.com/mdmitri91/status/1533505067881533441

    War correspondents and bloggers more and more start attacking each other in their telegram exchanges once one of them decides to take the responsibility of saying things how they are, which by the way (the exchanges) are seen by hundreds and thousands if not millions of people, mostly Russians. Some are really off the hook. Just today when I posted the translation of the text by some “Murz” once again slamming the inhumane treatment of mobilised L/DPR men, I mentioned briefly the continuous pounces at him from his fellow “Z-bras”. He was verbally attacked by a number of very significant Russian telegram channels, including “Starshe Edd’y“, “Voenkor Kotyonok Z” – to the point where threats of physical violence are not uncommon anymore.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
    A Welshman literally UNFOLLOWED Zelensky because of this tweet

    Imagine being that much of an insecure and obsessive wanker
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,630
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
    I didn't realise she was that old.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    At our local petrol station, diesel had been significantly more expensive than petrol, but I noticed that today they were the same price. Because petrol had risen, not that diesel had fallen.
    BP on the Eastern Avenue, Ilford, still have two petrol stations on opposite carriageways with different prices. Eastbound 184.9, westbound 183.9.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
    Hardly the same thing, if it was the UK would have invaded the Republic of Ireland as Putin's Russia has invaded Ukraine. The majority of the people of Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK
  • Ask your questions to @Keir_Starmer. The Labour leader joins @NickFerrariLBC from 9am tomorrow morning to answer LBC listeners’ questions.

    As I mentioned a few weeks ago, Keir will be reaffirming Labour's new/current policy on trans rights and this will be his first opportunity to publicly do so.
  • I've just applied to switch to First Direct, £125 of free money
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
    It goes without saying that tweeter had a Palestinian flag proudly displayed.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    At our local petrol station, diesel had been significantly more expensive than petrol, but I noticed that today they were the same price. Because petrol had risen, not that diesel had fallen.
    Yes, during my fortnight away, petrol at my local Tesco's had risen from 162.9p to 171.9p per litre. Diesel at 183.9p per litre. Extraordinary prices - I'd love to see the breakdown of the cost of a litre between the oil company, the refinery, the transport, fuel duty etc to see where (if anywhere) the profit is being made.

    I can't believe this isn't going to have an impact through the economy going forward. The quadrupling of oil prices in 1973-74 was a severe shock - this not on the same scale but still considerable.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564
    ping said:

    Grimsby promoted to the EFL

    Beat Solihull Moors 2-1 in extra time.

    FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    stodge said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    At our local petrol station, diesel had been significantly more expensive than petrol, but I noticed that today they were the same price. Because petrol had risen, not that diesel had fallen.
    Yes, during my fortnight away, petrol at my local Tesco's had risen from 162.9p to 171.9p per litre. Diesel at 183.9p per litre. Extraordinary prices - I'd love to see the breakdown of the cost of a litre between the oil company, the refinery, the transport, fuel duty etc to see where (if anywhere) the profit is being made.

    I can't believe this isn't going to have an impact through the economy going forward. The quadrupling of oil prices in 1973-74 was a severe shock - this not on the same scale but still considerable.
    It’s going to have a colossal impact and the rise in oil prices has not stopped yet.

    I’d be interested in what @Richard_Tyndall thinks on this and where the bottlenecks are. Refining capacity ? Production capacity ? Also more importantly what can be done to reduce the price per barrel.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    At the end of this coming week Labour may find that Johnson has survived a VONC, but only just, limping on as a lame duck PM and about to face the voters of two by-elections.

    Good times for the Opposition.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    edited June 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    A sixth of that increase is directly going to HMRC as VAT as windfall government income, so those who say the government can do nothing are wrong. That money should be recycled back to the poorest third or so, not just the poorest ten per cent. It should not be done by age, or extra given to those who own loads of houses.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    The other one is milk... The two pint bottles that fit in our fridge, the price stuck at 95p for ages. Since it broke a pound a bottle, there's been no stopping the increases. £1.20 last time I looked. Though the four pint bottles don't seem to have increased anything bloke as much.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Ask your questions to @Keir_Starmer. The Labour leader joins @NickFerrariLBC from 9am tomorrow morning to answer LBC listeners’ questions.

    As I mentioned a few weeks ago, Keir will be reaffirming Labour's new/current policy on trans rights and this will be his first opportunity to publicly do so.

    ‘Sir Keir, why is it during Pride month you are throwing trans women under the bus ?’
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
    It goes without saying that tweeter had a Palestinian flag proudly displayed.
    It's a shame, since I think an awful lot of people have great sympathy for the Palestinians, but inclusion of such is a pretty telling indicator more often than not.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    A sixth of that increase is directly going to HMRC as VAT as windfall government income, so those who say the government can do nothing are wrong. That money should be recycled back to the poorest third or so, not just the poorest ten per cent. It should not be done by age, or extra given to those who own loads of houses.
    The German Federal government are seemingly massively reducing fuel duty and making local public transport effectively free for the summer...

    https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2022/0601/1302509-germany/?fbclid=IwAR2kbvH83d5vWlu5CdsC6yRjhmcKD64q_4vXWcOapvdUqWD-99o8ql7VSkM
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    edited June 2022
    In an interview on Russian state TV on Sunday, Mr Putin said: "In general, all this fuss about additional arms supplies, in my opinion, has only one goal, to stretch the armed conflict as long as possible."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61697093

    By golly detective Putin, I think you've cracked this mystery. They don't want you to be able to win quickly and easily you say?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Taz said:

    Ask your questions to @Keir_Starmer. The Labour leader joins @NickFerrariLBC from 9am tomorrow morning to answer LBC listeners’ questions.

    As I mentioned a few weeks ago, Keir will be reaffirming Labour's new/current policy on trans rights and this will be his first opportunity to publicly do so.

    ‘Sir Keir, why is it during Pride month you are throwing trans women under the bus ?’
    Pride *month*! As long as Ramadan.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Biblical storm in Tbilisi. Again

    And I managed to capture my first ever lightning strike. Over the cathedral


    Comrade Stalin's ghost is NOT resting easy (or happy) these days?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fuck Wales, they are Putin's little helpers.

    Ukraine at the world cup would have made sure Putin's atrocities are not forgotten later on this year as the whole world watched.

    Zelensky clearly not taking it personally, he has just tweeted congratulations to the Queen on her Platinum Jubilee

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1533516244124590085?s=20&t=tew3jQia9C4gIwSCG1E4Lw
    Boy, talk about holding a grudge in the replies

    Been oppressing Ireland for 800 years thanks for the support…

    Good thing the government of Ireland is more nuanced.
    It goes without saying that tweeter had a Palestinian flag proudly displayed.
    It's a shame, since I think an awful lot of people have great sympathy for the Palestinians, but inclusion of such is a pretty telling indicator more often than not.
    It’s one of those things on Twitter, like FBPE or a Union Jack profile pic. Denotes a total numpty.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    At the end of this coming week Labour may find that Johnson has survived a VONC, but only just, limping on as a lame duck PM and about to face the voters of two by-elections.

    Good times for the Opposition.

    I suspect that Brady has sought and been given a small window of silence over the Jubilee weekend.

    Pure guesswork, but Tuesday.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564

    At the end of this coming week Labour may find that Johnson has survived a VONC, but only just, limping on as a lame duck PM and about to face the voters of two by-elections.

    Good times for the Opposition.

    At the end of this coming week Labour will find that Johnson has lost a VONC, departing as PM and Labour and the LibDems about to face the voters of two by-elections with their fox shot.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    stodge said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    At our local petrol station, diesel had been significantly more expensive than petrol, but I noticed that today they were the same price. Because petrol had risen, not that diesel had fallen.
    Yes, during my fortnight away, petrol at my local Tesco's had risen from 162.9p to 171.9p per litre. Diesel at 183.9p per litre. Extraordinary prices - I'd love to see the breakdown of the cost of a litre between the oil company, the refinery, the transport, fuel duty etc to see where (if anywhere) the profit is being made.

    I can't believe this isn't going to have an impact through the economy going forward. The quadrupling of oil prices in 1973-74 was a severe shock - this not on the same scale but still considerable.
    At 183.9p I make it 57.9 fuel duty, 30.6 VAT so 88p, over half, directly to HMRC before corporation tax etc.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    geoffw said:

    Taz said:

    Ask your questions to @Keir_Starmer. The Labour leader joins @NickFerrariLBC from 9am tomorrow morning to answer LBC listeners’ questions.

    As I mentioned a few weeks ago, Keir will be reaffirming Labour's new/current policy on trans rights and this will be his first opportunity to publicly do so.

    ‘Sir Keir, why is it during Pride month you are throwing trans women under the bus ?’
    Pride *month*! As long as Ramadan.

    It’s big business now.
This discussion has been closed.