On travel options, the last time I was in Turkey I hired one of the £2.50 a day Brompton folding bikes from a railway station here and took it on the plane to use whilst in Istanbul.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
Arguing the toss over which migrants are preferable does rather miss a more fundamental point, which is that the UK is overpopulated; that immigration (given the age profile of immigrants) is a key driver of population growth; and, consequently, the country is eventually going to have to learn how to cope without large numbers of immigrants.
Instead of just importing more and more people (and, therefore, having continually to worry about where we're going to find food, water, energy, housing, jobs and public services for more and more people,) the country should be aiming for a managed decline of the total number of people living in it in the long term. Many essential benefits - notably reduced pressure on housing, water and other key resources, and the opportunity to become less dependent on imported food and to carry out rewilding - can be derived from this.
Ultimately, too many people = too much pressure on the natural world. Just as with global heating, the effects of too many people can be mitigated by technology, but mitigation is only enough to slow down the rate of damage, not to stop it in its tracks. The ultimate solution to global heating is to decarbonise, and the ultimate solution to too many people is to depopulate. If humanity can stop digging up and burning fossil fuels, and can learn to pump out offspring at below replacement rate for one or two hundred years, then our species will probably be fine.
London is buzzing tonight. Just left a party at Hackney Wick. London in June at the Jubilee weekend is a special place to be. Nowhere quite like it. We’re lucky to have London.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
I know emotions ran high over that period but some of the things you've posted there are simply not true. Priti Patel never said anything that even remotely approximated to “starving Ireland” and the fact that people continue to repeat that she did just shows that it was a far more successful piece of fake news than anything the Leave campaign ever came up with.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
We’re also getting a significant influx from Hong Kong because Xi
100,000 in the last year
They are more than welcome. I can’t think of better immigrants than smart, non-criminal, freedom loving, hardworking Hong Kongers. I hope a million move here
Check out Pakistani and Bangladeshi migration. Fell 40% under May, stayed low for years, now has taken off again.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Most of this seemed to be a handful of idiots, accentuated and spread broadly by left wing outlets looking to get outraged. It's like the racism against Sancho and Rashford. It was a small number online but the narrative around it obscured the fact that the vast majority of England fans were appalled at the racism.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
I know emotions ran high over that period but some of the things you've posted there are simply not true. Priti Patel never said anything that even remotely approximated to “starving Ireland” and the fact that people continue to repeat that she did just shows that it was a far more successful piece of fake news than anything the Leave campaign ever came up with.
The misquoting and mythology on the Remain side is astonishing. Raab said he "hadn't appreciated the full extent" of how much trade went through Dover-Calais and this is still repeated everywhere as he didn't know it was our made export route.
Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar. He's going out of his way imo to see half-empty glasses.
What do you think?
It is the usual appeaser nonsense. The Rouble is a potemkin currency right now. It has kept its value due to oil prices and surging central bank interest rates. Both those things are throttling the non-hydrocarbon economy. Russia cannot tolerate for 12 months plus.
It is the typical, disastrously-wrong realpolitik view of the world - that national interests are all that matter. And only those of the major players, even. It misses the point entirely that there is a Ukraine, and a Ukraine that is showing a lot of agency. Or that, without liberal democracy, the global economy - let alone the domestic economies of Western democracies - would not be anywhere near as strong and hence that abstract ideal might be something worth fighting for - indeed, might be the West's duty bound contribution to the fight - at the expense of some short- to medium-term economic pain.
I'd call that sort of thing misplaced attempts at realpolitik at best, given the longer term practical issues that might arise (and indeed already have) from taking a 'end this as soon as possible' approach, rather than genuine realpolitik.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Most of this seemed to be a handful of idiots, accentuated and spread broadly by left wing outlets looking to get outraged. It's like the racism against Sancho and Rashford. It was a small number online but the narrative around it obscured the fact that the vast majority of England fans were appalled at the racism.
The Prime Minister spoke of “citizens of nowhere”, words written for her by Nick Timothy and presumably meant as criticism of irresponsible non-dons or something.
It was grossly irresponsible at a time of heightened tension and it was received as two fingers up by me and all the migrants I know.
I get that a lot of people on here don’t get it, it’s because you are not migrants. You’ve got no idea, I’m afraid.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Come back from my Jubilee Party as a non-committed. Got pissed. So did everyone else. The Monarchists sang Rule Brittania and the National Anthem. We didn't. Was a good laugh. Fun was had. No one got political at all. No one was forced to wave a flag. Some moaned you weren't in the War. Greeted with knowing laughter. Really glad I went. Not everything's.a Culture.War.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Most of this seemed to be a handful of idiots, accentuated and spread broadly by left wing outlets looking to get outraged. It's like the racism against Sancho and Rashford. It was a small number online but the narrative around it obscured the fact that the vast majority of England fans were appalled at the racism.
The Prime Minister spoke of “citizens of nowhere”, words written for her by Nick Timothy and presumably meant as criticism of irresponsible non-dons or something.
It was grossly irresponsible at a time of heightened tension and it was received as two fingers up by me and all the migrants I know.
I get that a lot of people on here don’t get it, it’s because you are not migrants. You’ve got no idea, I’m afraid.
I'm married to one. I know exactly how she feels about it. And if you're going to presume to tell me otherwise, you can fuck off.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
We’re also getting a significant influx from Hong Kong because Xi
100,000 in the last year
They are more than welcome. I can’t think of better immigrants than smart, non-criminal, freedom loving, hardworking Hong Kongers. I hope a million move here
Check out Pakistani and Bangladeshi migration. Fell 40% under May, stayed low for years, now has taken off again.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Most of this seemed to be a handful of idiots, accentuated and spread broadly by left wing outlets looking to get outraged. It's like the racism against Sancho and Rashford. It was a small number online but the narrative around it obscured the fact that the vast majority of England fans were appalled at the racism.
The Prime Minister spoke of “citizens of nowhere”, words written for her by Nick Timothy and presumably meant as criticism of irresponsible non-dons or something.
It was grossly irresponsible at a time of heightened tension and it was received as two fingers up by me and all the migrants I know.
I get that a lot of people on here don’t get it, it’s because you are not migrants. You’ve got no idea, I’m afraid.
I'm married to one. I know exactly how she feels about it. And if you're going to presume to tell me otherwise, you can fuck off.
You are quite a nasty piece of work. It was your spirit of hatred that infused Brexit, I’m afraid.
More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.
Oh god, definitely ACCEPT
The countryside is truly glorious and pretty little Ludlow is like this mini gastronomic heaven. You can have brilliant walks (with brilliant churches and castles and villages if that’s your thing) then brilliant dinners that you’ve earned
Honestly, it’s excellent. Go
What he said. It's well worth a visit.
If you like hill walking the Clee Hills are outstanding walking country with stunning views.
If you like heritage, Stokesay, Ludlow Castle, Berrington Hall are all easy to get to.
Plenty of places to eat.
And if you just like sitting around admiring the view, there's plenty of good ones to choose.
Make sure it’s Stokesay Court not Stokesay Castle you go to. Otherwise your partner will make you atone for your error
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Mate, you now live in America and you are intending to retire to New Zealand. It no longer has anything to do with you, so you can shut the fuck up
The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.
We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.
Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude
I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
It wasn't. The 7 million haven't fucked off.
There's shitloads of Albanians living here (and in EU countries) and they're not in the EU.
Immigration happens. You don't have to be in the EU for it to happen.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Most of this seemed to be a handful of idiots, accentuated and spread broadly by left wing outlets looking to get outraged. It's like the racism against Sancho and Rashford. It was a small number online but the narrative around it obscured the fact that the vast majority of England fans were appalled at the racism.
The Prime Minister spoke of “citizens of nowhere”, words written for her by Nick Timothy and presumably meant as criticism of irresponsible non-dons or something.
It was grossly irresponsible at a time of heightened tension and it was received as two fingers up by me and all the migrants I know.
I get that a lot of people on here don’t get it, it’s because you are not migrants. You’ve got no idea, I’m afraid.
I'm married to one. I know exactly how she feels about it. And if you're going to presume to tell me otherwise, you can fuck off.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
Arguing the toss over which migrants are preferable does rather miss a more fundamental point, which is that the UK is overpopulated; that immigration (given the age profile of immigrants) is a key driver of population growth; and, consequently, the country is eventually going to have to learn how to cope without large numbers of immigrants.
Instead of just importing more and more people (and, therefore, having continually to worry about where we're going to find food, water, energy, housing, jobs and public services for more and more people,) the country should be aiming for a managed decline of the total number of people living in it in the long term. Many essential benefits - notably reduced pressure on housing, water and other key resources, and the opportunity to become less dependent on imported food and to carry out rewilding - can be derived from this.
Ultimately, too many people = too much pressure on the natural world. Just as with global heating, the effects of too many people can be mitigated by technology, but mitigation is only enough to slow down the rate of damage, not to stop it in its tracks. The ultimate solution to global heating is to decarbonise, and the ultimate solution to too many people is to depopulate. If humanity can stop digging up and burning fossil fuels, and can learn to pump out offspring at below replacement rate for one or two hundred years, then our species will probably be fine.
The Guardian comments are always hilarious on this one. The same ones who are always doing their holier than thou “we must save the planet” stuff are also the ones who then say, when it comes to immigration into the U.K., “look at all the space we have, we can easily afford to allow in x million people, we can just build on our spare land”
Which just goes to show they’re actually not interested in green issues, it’s just another right-on political cause for them, and one which is trumped by allowing immigrants into the country.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Mate, you now live in America and you are attending to retire to New Zealand. It no longer has anything to do with you, so you can shut the fuck up
Not at all, I’m a British citizen with two British kids.
The worlds a lot more complicated that Brexiters realise. Well, apart from decimal currency; that’s a lot easier.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
They have a large Somali population and Ilhan Omar as one of their Congresspeople. Enough said.
PS a has she ever managed to come up with a credible refutation that her supposed marriage was a sham, given it was her brother she allegedly named as her husband?
Come back from my Jubilee Party as a non-committed. Got pissed. So did everyone else. The Monarchists sang Rule Brittania and the National Anthem. We didn't. Was a good laugh. Fun was had. No one got political at all. No one was forced to wave a flag. Some moaned you weren't in the War. Greeted with knowing laughter. Really glad I went. Not everything's.a Culture.War.
Yes, good turn out on our park, with bar, field games, beacon and fireworks. Lots of kids enjoying themselves.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
We’re also getting a significant influx from Hong Kong because Xi
100,000 in the last year
They are more than welcome. I can’t think of better immigrants than smart, non-criminal, freedom loving, hardworking Hong Kongers. I hope a million move here
Check out Pakistani and Bangladeshi migration. Fell 40% under May, stayed low for years, now has taken off again.
Quite right, they will often have family members in the UK.
Come back from my Jubilee Party as a non-committed. Got pissed. So did everyone else. The Monarchists sang Rule Brittania and the National Anthem. We didn't. Was a good laugh. Fun was had. No one got political at all. No one was forced to wave a flag. Some moaned you weren't in the War. Greeted with knowing laughter. Really glad I went. Not everything's.a Culture.War.
Yet. I come on here and it's all Green hypocrisy and immigration. Well. It wasn't in Ashington tonight. Maybe it was in North London. But. Chattering classes eh?
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
We’re also getting a significant influx from Hong Kong because Xi
100,000 in the last year
They are more than welcome. I can’t think of better immigrants than smart, non-criminal, freedom loving, hardworking Hong Kongers. I hope a million move here
Check out Pakistani and Bangladeshi migration. Fell 40% under May, stayed low for years, now has taken off again.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
They have a large Somali population and Ilhan Omar as one of their Congresspeople. Enough said.
PS a has she ever managed to come up with a credible refutation that her supposed marriage was a sham, given it was her brother she allegedly named as her husband?
If you want to create a radical Islamic ghetto, where all the locals move out and Muslims constitute 100% of the neighbourhood population - and, generally speaking, you really DO NOT want to do this - then the one guaranteed way to do it quickly is to allow the call to prayer to be loudly broadcast
It happened to a friend of mine in a hitherto mixed and agreeable Bangkok suburb. For some reason no one could understand (my guess is money and corruption, this is Thailand) the authorities in his suburb allowed the call to prayer. At ear splitting volume. He moved out, lots of Muslims moved in. Result: exclusively Muslim ghetto
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
Albeit the Jubilee happens every decade or so, and President's Day or Republic Day or whatever happens every year.
It's a hell of a lot easier to drum up enthusiasm for something infrequent.
London is buzzing tonight. Just left a party at Hackney Wick. London in June at the Jubilee weekend is a special place to be. Nowhere quite like it. We’re lucky to have London.
It's the world in a city. Some parts are great, some are eminently missable.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Why is that? If the city finds it intrusive they can always disallow it again.
haha, it’s Minneapolis. You really think any council member concerned about their position is going to complain about this? They would be drummed out of office quicker than you can say Islamophobia
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
It's a bit dickless to say "Don't let facts get in the way of..." and very dickless indeed to chip in to someone else's argument like that because you haven't the balls to get into a fight directly. Yellow card.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
Albeit the Jubilee happens every decade or so, and President's Day or Republic Day or whatever happens every year.
It's a hell of a lot easier to drum up enthusiasm for something infrequent.
Fox jr was in Amsterdam for kings day earlier in the year, it was a great party, and they do it every year.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
Albeit the Jubilee happens every decade or so, and President's Day or Republic Day or whatever happens every year.
It's a hell of a lot easier to drum up enthusiasm for something infrequent.
There really is no enthusiasm for the republic in Italy. Let’s not forget the referendum on the Monarchy in Italy was almost certainly rigged to ensure the establishment of the Republic (which republicans don’t really want to talk about).
A republic is a bland political entity. At best it is what they call in marketing “premium mediocre”.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
There's always going to be a lot back-and-forth between the UK and the EU because there are 450 million people in the bloc, and we're the major financial center for the continent, we have massive numbers of people with family in the EU, we have Universities that actively market to people in the EU (and vice-versa), and lots of firms have both UK and EU offices and will want to shuffle people around.
Even in a situation where - net - 100,000 people were leaving a year, we'd still see lots of people arriving from the EU, because that is what happens when you're on the doorstep of a large bloc, and you do a lot of business with them.
So, I'm not really sure what your point is. Is it that we shouldn't have any arrivals from the EU? Or that we should have net migration of negative 100,000 per year for the next few years?
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Pointing out that the facts show that you're spouting bullshit is not really "pedantic".
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
It's a bit dickless to say "Don't let facts get in the way of..." and very dickless indeed to chip in to someone else's argument like that because you haven't the balls to get into a fight directly. Yellow card.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
What on earth are you dribbling on about? Read the thread!
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Really. Go to Albania and find that being woken up by the muezzin at silly o'clock is just part of life. It's no big deal.
Why would it not be as irritating as fuck? Having X happen when you want X not to happen is by definition annoying, including being woken up, and I don't see what a bit of seasoned-traveller, rub-along-with-all-sorts, lifes-rich-tapestry bollocks about Albania adds to the mix. What the fuck is special about the poxy muezzins of Albania? Is it the world's only muslim country?
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
Albeit the Jubilee happens every decade or so, and President's Day or Republic Day or whatever happens every year.
It's a hell of a lot easier to drum up enthusiasm for something infrequent.
There really is no enthusiasm for the republic in Italy. Let’s not forget the referendum on the Monarchy in Italy was almost certainly rigged to ensure the establishment of the Republic (which republicans don’t really want to talk about).
A republic is a bland political entity. At best it is what they call in marketing “premium mediocre”.
The US manages OK.
I don't see much enthusiasm among my friends here for reinstatement of the Royal family. But, hey, if it was one of the Kardashians taking over the role, then it might be a bit different.
My view is that monarchies are great when you have great monarchs, as we do.
The problem is what happens when an Andrew ascends to the throne, as happens from time-to-time.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
It's a bit dickless to say "Don't let facts get in the way of..." and very dickless indeed to chip in to someone else's argument like that because you haven't the balls to get into a fight directly. Yellow card.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
What on earth are you dribbling on about? Read the thread!
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Pointing out that the facts show that you're spouting bullshit is not really "pedantic".
No, that was referring to some other posters. You just spew hate.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Try ringing some church bells in Somalia or other similar countries.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
We’re also getting a significant influx from Hong Kong because Xi
100,000 in the last year
They are more than welcome. I can’t think of better immigrants than smart, non-criminal, freedom loving, hardworking Hong Kongers. I hope a million move here
Check out Pakistani and Bangladeshi migration. Fell 40% under May, stayed low for years, now has taken off again.
Completely agree. Disaster. This govt is shit
Why is it going up again?
The government has responded to the cuts in EU migration by opening up the definition of "skilled migration", so people like fencers, flower arrangers and shopkeepers count, as long as they earn 26k a year.
In addition, May put in an earnings threshold for family migration that the sponsor had to earn. However they buckled under pressure and set it pretty low (18k a year). This stopped a lot of the arranged marriage visas, but applicants have now figured out how to arrange their affairs to meet the earnings threshold for the necessary time period.
Both thresholds should really be in the mid-30ks as that is the point where you don't become a net cost to the taxpayer.
@Foxy I looked it up, and according to the commons library, it’s a mixed picture:
Has the number of EU staff in the NHS changed since the referendum?
Because data coverage of NHS nationality data has improved over time, comparisons of the number of EU staff in the NHS over time should be made only with caution. In June 2016 there were 89,546 staff with unknown nationality. That has now decreased to 40,166 (a fall of over half) while the total number of staff employed by the NHS has increased.
This means that some apparent increases in staff numbers for nationalities and nationality groups are likely to be due to improved data coverage rather than genuine increases.
In other words: because a greater proportion of NHS staff now have a nationality recorded, we would expect to see increases in the recorded number of staff with a given nationality, even if there were no genuine changes in the actual number of staff with that nationality. In June 2016 there were 58,698 staff with recorded EU nationality, and in January there were over 70,660. But to present this as the full story would be misleading, because we know that there are almost 50,000 more staff for whom nationality is known now than in 2016.
It is very likely that there has been an overall increase in the number of NHS staff with EU nationality since 2016, but we can’t be sure about the scale of the change, and it would be misleading to calculate an increase just based on the two numbers above.
Claims about changes in the number of EU staff which don’t mention the importance of staff with unknown nationality should be treated sceptically.
Nurses and health visitors are the only staff group to record a fall in the number of recorded EU nationals since the EU referendum. EU nurses as a percentage of those with a known nationality have fallen from 7.4% of the total to 5.6%.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
My local united reformed church got sold to a group of Muslims who have turned it into a mosque. They post their prayer times on twitter. That’s a perfectly sensible way of achieving what the call to prayer is intended to achieve, without disturbing the neighbours in, what is an almost exclusively non-Muslim area.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
It's a bit dickless to say "Don't let facts get in the way of..." and very dickless indeed to chip in to someone else's argument like that because you haven't the balls to get into a fight directly. Yellow card.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
What on earth are you dribbling on about? Read the thread!
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Pointing out that the facts show that you're spouting bullshit is not really "pedantic".
No, that was referring to some other posters. You just spew hate.
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
Albeit the Jubilee happens every decade or so, and President's Day or Republic Day or whatever happens every year.
It's a hell of a lot easier to drum up enthusiasm for something infrequent.
There really is no enthusiasm for the republic in Italy. Let’s not forget the referendum on the Monarchy in Italy was almost certainly rigged to ensure the establishment of the Republic (which republicans don’t really want to talk about).
A republic is a bland political entity. At best it is what they call in marketing “premium mediocre”.
The US manages OK.
I don't see much enthusiasm among my friends here for reinstatement of the Royal family. But, hey, if it was one of the Kardashians taking over the role, then it might be a bit different.
My view is that monarchies are great when you have great monarchs, as we do.
The problem is what happens when an Andrew ascends to the throne, as happens from time-to-time.
I'm not convinced the US *is* managing OK. (Not that I'm saying a royal family would fix their problems!)
The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.
We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.
Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude
I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey
Or perhaps northern Portugal?
The Isle of Wight 😀👍👍👍
Haven't been to Northern Cyprus since the early 70s, but other than seasonal events, I'd think that ticks the boxes. Kyrenia or Bellapais as a base.
London is buzzing tonight. Just left a party at Hackney Wick. London in June at the Jubilee weekend is a special place to be. Nowhere quite like it. We’re lucky to have London.
You’re welcome to it. From an Edinburgh where Union Jack bunting is thin on the ground.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Really. Go to Albania and find that being woken up by the muezzin at silly o'clock is just part of life. It's no big deal.
Why would it not be as irritating as fuck? Having X happen when you want X not to happen is by definition annoying, including being woken up, and I don't see what a bit of seasoned-traveller, rub-along-with-all-sorts, lifes-rich-tapestry bollocks about Albania adds to the mix. What the fuck is special about the poxy muezzins of Albania? Is it the world's only muslim country?
Once you allow it, then it swiftly becomes insanely loud
“JAKARTA: Every morning Rina is jolted awake at 3am by blaring speakers so loud she has developed an anxiety disorder: she can't sleep, she's too nauseous to eat -- but she is also too scared to complain because doing so could see her jailed or attacked.
The noisy neighbour is the local mosque in her Jakarta suburb, and the clamorous sound is the call to prayer.”
It’s a bit like American gun law. The 2nd amendment was written at a time of muskets and local militias, it didn’t envisage assault rifles and AK47s
The call to prayer can be a mellifluous thing if sung by one man quietly in a minaret (tho even then it should be severely regulated). The Koran did not envisage massive amplifying systems and mosques competing for worshippers
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
50k a year is not "essentially zero". It is half of Cameron's immigration target from a part of the world covering just 6% of the global population.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Try ringing some church bells in Somalia or other similar countries.
So just because other countries are illiberal, we should be too?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Not all darkies are Muslim...
A Hindu temple with a chained elephant wouldn't go down very well
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Ah there it is, the accusation of racism for reasonable criticism of something. It's such a predictable behaviour of dribbling morons when losing the argument.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Not all darkies are Muslim...
Nor indeed are all darkies Muslim.
I would have thought the total populations of Christians and Muslims worldwide would be similarly dark, on average.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
It's a bit dickless to say "Don't let facts get in the way of..." and very dickless indeed to chip in to someone else's argument like that because you haven't the balls to get into a fight directly. Yellow card.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
What on earth are you dribbling on about? Read the thread!
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Pointing out that the facts show that you're spouting bullshit is not really "pedantic".
No, that was referring to some other posters. You just spew hate.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
50k a year is not "essentially zero". It is half of Cameron's immigration target from a part of the world covering just 6% of the global population.
The figure given upthread was net 12k in across 20 and 21. Undoubtedly suppressed by Covid, but that doesn’t seem to have stopped RoW.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
My local united reformed church got sold to a group of Muslims who have turned it into a mosque. They post their prayer times on twitter. That’s a perfectly sensible way of achieving what the call to prayer is intended to achieve, without disturbing the neighbours in, what is an almost exclusively non-Muslim area.
In Aldershot, the Imam goes outside the mosque at ctp time and just announces it in a normal speaking voice - job done, no-one offended
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Well, at least you’ve fucked off, so if that was the intent of the Brexit campaign, it has at least had ONE tangible benefit. You’ve fucked off
Perhaps you could now do us the personal favour of sparing us any more of your inane, clueless opinions, as you move on to politicalbetting.usa as that is now your new home. Thanks
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
This will be shown to be rubbish later in the year. The only time we got close to zero was when a lot of them lost their jobs in hospitality thanks to Covid and even then the net 3.5m remained. The number coming remains high as others pointed out. It’s just temporarily the number leaving came close to that but that was an exceptional situation. You are simply showing your own bias and prejudice I’m afraid. This country remains one of the most welcoming in the world.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Ah there it is, the accusation of racism for reasonable criticism of something. It's such a predictable behaviour of dribbling morons when losing the argument.
Cuts both ways too. Would the Remain vote have been as high as 48% if Poles were black? I’d like to think it wouldn’t have mattered, but I do wonder…
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
50k a year is not "essentially zero". It is half of Cameron's immigration target from a part of the world covering just 6% of the global population.
The part that's right next to us with close historical links. Slightly bizarre to quote a 6% figure while ignoring geography.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
This will be shown to be rubbish later in the year. The only time we got close to zero was when a lot of them lost their jobs in hospitality thanks to Covid and even then the net 3.5m remained. The number coming remains high as others pointed out. It’s just temporarily the number leaving came close to that but that was an exceptional situation. You are simply showing your own bias and prejudice I’m afraid. This country remains one of the most welcoming in the world.
I’m sure the UK is more welcoming, that remiains true. However that doesn’t really characterise “Brexit”.
As with your bizarre apologetics for Boris, I’m afraid you live in a bit of a bubble.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Nothing’s one sided, though.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
Mate, you now live in America and you are attending to retire to New Zealand. It no longer has anything to do with you, so you can shut the fuck up
Not at all, I’m a British citizen with two British kids.
The worlds a lot more complicated that Brexiters realise. Well, apart from decimal currency; that’s a lot easier.
And it seems that Brexit was a lot more complicated than your simplistic reduction of it to nasty xenophobia.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Don't let facts get in the way of his small-minded bitter rants.
It's a bit dickless to say "Don't let facts get in the way of..." and very dickless indeed to chip in to someone else's argument like that because you haven't the balls to get into a fight directly. Yellow card.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
What on earth are you dribbling on about? Read the thread!
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Pointing out that the facts show that you're spouting bullshit is not really "pedantic".
No, that was referring to some other posters. You just spew hate.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
50k a year is not "essentially zero". It is half of Cameron's immigration target from a part of the world covering just 6% of the global population.
The figure given upthread was net 12k in across 20 and 21. Undoubtedly suppressed by Covid, but that doesn’t seem to have stopped RoW.
Using the Covid numbers are laughable. It hasn't stopped the rest of the world because they relaxed controls there, so there was built up supply suddenly coming through.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Ah there it is, the accusation of racism for reasonable criticism of something. It's such a predictable behaviour of dribbling morons when losing the argument.
Cuts both ways too. Would the Remain vote have been as high as 48% if Poles were black? I’d like to think it wouldn’t have mattered, but I do wonder…
Well that was the meaning behind Farages notorious poster, and the stories of Turks coming too.
This is what gets to me. You've won every single vote since 2005. Yet. Unions rule the public services. Immigrants ride roughshod. Politically correct wokeness is rife. And the economy is fucked. You're super unhappy. Did it ever occur you may have been voting wrong?
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
Them darkies are nothing but trouble aren't they with their horrible foreign habits?
Try ringing some church bells in Somalia or other similar countries.
So just because other countries are illiberal, we should be too?
What gets me is the asymmetry: I don't mind real live muezzins getting up at sparrowfart to call the faithful, but what they do is hitch up a seriously shit PA system to a timer, and stay in bed, probably miles away and with noise cancelling hedfones on. How many of the faithful do not have a smartphone with a timer/reminder app built in to it, anyway?
Muezzins are shit, as are first cousin marriages and suicide bombings, irrespective of the skin colour of the perps.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
Should we ban church bells too, for the same reason?
Are church bells rung multiple times a day, every day, throughout the year, and then electronically amplified so you can hear them in every home?
No
I can hear the church bells in my in-laws house several times a day. The church is half a mile away.
It's not loud enough to wake a person, though. If it were I'd find it a lot less pleasant. Intolerable even.
Seems like an obvious compromise would be to allow the call to prayer, but to limit the volume.
Utterly bizarre, nay bonkers, that this idea "but republics are boring" narrative has crept in. What the fuck are you people even on about? Do you leap out of bed every morning with a spring in your step because the moment your eyes crack open you remember WE HAVE A QUEEN‽
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
Except that's demonstrably untrue. Recently published ONS stats for EU migration merely suggest that the numbers of people arriving from and returning to the EU were roughly in balance during the years ending mid-2020 and mid-2021 (24k net immigration to the UK in 2020, 12k net emigration from the UK in 2021.)
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
Balanced out - according to your own figures - by those leaving.
Mission accomplished.
Your assertion was that EU migrants weren't coming, because a post-Brexit wave of demented xenophobic cruelty had driven them away.
1. They are still coming. 2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
No, that’s not my assertion.
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
Well, at least you’ve fucked off, so if that was the intent of the Brexit campaign, it has at least had ONE tangible benefit. You’ve fucked off
Perhaps you could now do us the personal favour of sparing us any more of your inane, clueless opinions, as you move on to politicalbetting.usa as that is now your new home. Thanks
Bring back your lesbian newt painter persona, she was much less prone to middle-aged temper tantrums.
I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.
But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.
I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.
In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.
They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.
But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
No, we didn't.
We did. So they have.
I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
I think you are being woefully naive here.
Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”. Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.
Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
Looking at the numbers, we have somewhere north of 7m EU citizens.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
It was, and they don’t come anymore. Mission accomplished.
A net 50,000 EU citizens came to the UK in 2019.
Indeed. Net migration from the EU remained positive from the referendum until the Covid restrictions of 2020 came into play. My expectation is that it will now be positive again. There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
Most of my EU colleagues have moved back. Not all, but most.
I don’t doubt your personal experience and it is not surprising that this is patchy but the overall figures are plain. The EU continues to be a net source of labour and skills to the UK. It may be a smaller percentage of our net immigration than it was before but it’s still net in.
The figures are plain in that EU migration is now essentially zero, whereas non-EU is now delivering the same volume we saw before from the EU.
This will be shown to be rubbish later in the year. The only time we got close to zero was when a lot of them lost their jobs in hospitality thanks to Covid and even then the net 3.5m remained. The number coming remains high as others pointed out. It’s just temporarily the number leaving came close to that but that was an exceptional situation. You are simply showing your own bias and prejudice I’m afraid. This country remains one of the most welcoming in the world.
I’m sure the UK is more welcoming, that remiains true. However that doesn’t really characterise “Brexit”.
As with your bizarre apologetics for Boris, I’m afraid you live in a bit of a bubble.
I really have no idea what you are talking about in your last sentence. But whatever.
Utterly bizarre, nay bonkers, that this idea "but republics are boring" narrative has crept in. What the fuck are you people even on about? Do you leap out of bed every morning with a spring in your step because the moment your eyes crack open you remember WE HAVE A QUEEN‽
Comments
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Having done some diligent study, the new pronounciation is "Turkier" or "Turkia" rather than "Turk-E-I".
So no confusion. Maybe.
Video here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61671913
On travel options, the last time I was in Turkey I hired one of the £2.50 a day Brompton folding bikes from a railway station here and took it on the plane to use whilst in Istanbul.
Instead of just importing more and more people (and, therefore, having continually to worry about where we're going to find food, water, energy, housing, jobs and public services for more and more people,) the country should be aiming for a managed decline of the total number of people living in it in the long term. Many essential benefits - notably reduced pressure on housing, water and other key resources, and the opportunity to become less dependent on imported food and to carry out rewilding - can be derived from this.
Ultimately, too many people = too much pressure on the natural world. Just as with global heating, the effects of too many people can be mitigated by technology, but mitigation is only enough to slow down the rate of damage, not to stop it in its tracks. The ultimate solution to global heating is to decarbonise, and the ultimate solution to too many people is to depopulate. If humanity can stop digging up and burning fossil fuels, and can learn to pump out offspring at below replacement rate for one or two hundred years, then our species will probably be fine.
What was - and remains - shocking was the latent nastiness that was unleashed in Britain.
Previously the general assumption was that the British were too sensible and stolidly good-mannered to descend to such levels, indeed that was much of the attraction.
If it was "fuck off" (it wasn't) it seems they ignored it.
Mission accomplished.
It was grossly irresponsible at a time of heightened tension and it was received as two fingers up by me and all the migrants I know.
I get that a lot of people on here don’t get it, it’s because you are not migrants. You’ve got no idea, I’m afraid.
Got pissed. So did everyone else. The Monarchists sang Rule Brittania and the National Anthem. We didn't. Was a good laugh. Fun was had. No one got political at all. No one was forced to wave a flag. Some moaned you weren't in the War. Greeted with knowing laughter.
Really glad I went.
Not everything's.a Culture.War.
“Mosques in Minneapolis are preparing to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers after the community became the first large U.S city to allow it. apne.ws/7D26SCY”
https://twitter.com/ap/status/1532376744300142592?s=21&t=SuSnr2WRzw28sQ_FtHoVUA
It was your spirit of hatred that infused Brexit, I’m afraid.
462,000 people, approximately equivalent to the entire population of Bristol, are estimated to have arrived from the EU over that two year period. Therefore, they're still coming.
There's shitloads of Albanians living here (and in EU countries) and they're not in the EU.
Immigration happens. You don't have to be in the EU for it to happen.
Which just goes to show they’re actually not interested in green issues, it’s just another right-on political cause for them, and one which is trumped by allowing immigrants into the country.
There are estimated to be 3.5 m EU residents in this country atm. That is about 5% of our population. The idea that they went home en masse because they were hated or unwelcome is frankly ridiculous.
The worlds a lot more complicated that Brexiters realise. Well, apart from decimal currency; that’s a lot easier.
They have a large Somali population and Ilhan Omar as one of their Congresspeople. Enough said.
PS a has she ever managed to come up with a credible refutation that her supposed marriage was a sham, given it was her brother she allegedly named as her husband?
Mission accomplished.
Or should we prioritise White EU cits instead?
Well. It wasn't in Ashington tonight. Maybe it was in North London. But. Chattering classes eh?
Unnecessary, though. The call to prayer made sense in a world before watches, phones etc. In a secular society/community where Islam is a minority belief, broadcasting a call to prayer ain’t on, imo.
It happened to a friend of mine in a hitherto mixed and agreeable Bangkok suburb. For some reason no one could understand (my guess is money and corruption, this is Thailand) the authorities in his suburb allowed the call to prayer. At ear splitting volume. He moved out, lots of Muslims moved in. Result: exclusively Muslim ghetto
i’m in Italy and today is Republic Day. And you know what? Despite the attempts of the state to big it up, have flypasts, military units etc, nobody really gives a fuck. Most of the shops and restaurants in Rome are open as normal. yup, it’s a holiday but nobody really cares.
Now compare with what’s happening in the U.K. General enthusiasm and much more genuine joy.
The republicans really are a bunch of joyless fuckers.
1. They are still coming.
2. Why would the aforementioned 462,000 people have chosen to immerse themselves in an environment where they were unwanted and abused? Are they all pig-ignorant of the supposed facts on the ground here, or are they all masochists?
It's a hell of a lot easier to drum up enthusiasm for something infrequent.
No
I described the spirit of narrow-minded xenophobia that infused “long Brexit”, and explained how offensive it was to migrants (including myself). “Fuck off” was the message.
I then noted that EU migration was now essentially zero, ie “they have fucked off”.
Some choose to be pedantic with their responses, but I assume that’s because they don’t want the above on their conscience.
In other news, I have emulated the Duke of York (hill-climbing-wise, not paedophilia) and admired the beacon close up. I hope Her Maj will be pleased.
https://www.holland.com/global/tourism/activities/events/kings-day-in-holland.htm
Several times a year.
A republic is a bland political entity. At best it is what they call in marketing “premium mediocre”.
Even in a situation where - net - 100,000 people were leaving a year, we'd still see lots of people arriving from the EU, because that is what happens when you're on the doorstep of a large bloc, and you do a lot of business with them.
So, I'm not really sure what your point is. Is it that we shouldn't have any arrivals from the EU? Or that we should have net migration of negative 100,000 per year for the next few years?
I don't see much enthusiasm among my friends here for reinstatement of the Royal family. But, hey, if it was one of the Kardashians taking over the role, then it might be a bit different.
My view is that monarchies are great when you have great monarchs, as we do.
The problem is what happens when an Andrew ascends to the throne, as happens from time-to-time.
You just spew hate.
In addition, May put in an earnings threshold for family migration that the sponsor had to earn. However they buckled under pressure and set it pretty low (18k a year). This stopped a lot of the arranged marriage visas, but applicants have now figured out how to arrange their affairs to meet the earnings threshold for the necessary time period.
Both thresholds should really be in the mid-30ks as that is the point where you don't become a net cost to the taxpayer.
Has the number of EU staff in the NHS changed since the referendum?
Because data coverage of NHS nationality data has improved over time, comparisons of the number of EU staff in the NHS over time should be made only with caution. In June 2016 there were 89,546 staff with unknown nationality. That has now decreased to 40,166 (a fall of over half) while the total number of staff employed by the NHS has increased.
This means that some apparent increases in staff numbers for nationalities and nationality groups are likely to be due to improved data coverage rather than genuine increases.
In other words: because a greater proportion of NHS staff now have a nationality recorded, we would expect to see increases in the recorded number of staff with a given nationality, even if there were no genuine changes in the actual number of staff with that nationality.
In June 2016 there were 58,698 staff with recorded EU nationality, and in January there were over 70,660. But to present this as the full story would be misleading, because we know that there are almost 50,000 more staff for whom nationality is known now than in 2016.
It is very likely that there has been an overall increase in the number of NHS staff with EU nationality since 2016, but we can’t be sure about the scale of the change, and it would be misleading to calculate an increase just based on the two numbers above.
Claims about changes in the number of EU staff which don’t mention the importance of staff with unknown nationality should be treated sceptically.
Nurses and health visitors are the only staff group to record a fall in the number of recorded EU nationals since the EU referendum. EU nurses as a percentage of those with a known nationality have fallen from 7.4% of the total to 5.6%.
(emphasis mine)
It also didn't affect house prices, as I see my old place is valued at (chokes on his Zoopla) 12x what it was when I was there.
Harder than it looks.
“JAKARTA: Every morning Rina is jolted awake at 3am by blaring speakers so loud she has developed an anxiety disorder: she can't sleep, she's too nauseous to eat -- but she is also too scared to complain because doing so could see her jailed or attacked.
The noisy neighbour is the local mosque in her Jakarta suburb, and the clamorous sound is the call to prayer.”
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/2197663/piety-or-cacophony-indonesia-tackles-call-to-prayer-volume-backlash
It’s a bit like American gun law. The 2nd amendment was written at a time of muskets and local militias, it didn’t envisage assault rifles and AK47s
The call to prayer can be a mellifluous thing if sung by one man quietly in a minaret (tho even then it should be severely regulated). The Koran did not envisage massive amplifying systems and mosques competing for worshippers
Lairy on here tonight
Perhaps you could now do us the personal favour of sparing us any more of your inane, clueless opinions, as you move on to politicalbetting.usa as that is now your new home. Thanks
The number coming remains high as others pointed out. It’s just temporarily the number leaving came close to that but that was an exceptional situation.
You are simply showing your own bias and prejudice I’m afraid. This country remains one of the most welcoming in the world.
As with your bizarre apologetics for Boris, I’m afraid you live in a bit of a bubble.
You've won every single vote since 2005.
Yet. Unions rule the public services. Immigrants ride roughshod. Politically correct wokeness is rife. And the economy is fucked.
You're super unhappy.
Did it ever occur you may have been voting wrong?
Muezzins are shit, as are first cousin marriages and suicide bombings, irrespective of the skin colour of the perps.
It's not loud enough to wake a person, though. If it were I'd find it a lot less pleasant. Intolerable even.
Seems like an obvious compromise would be to allow the call to prayer, but to limit the volume.