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Punters think there will be a Johnson VONC but he’ll win it – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    It's widely considered to be Venezuela I think. They have a Miss World industry there.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,782
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1532312890451144704

    Johnson has clearly never put his son to bed in his life

    And it is the easiest, most rewarding thing in the whole of parenthood.

    You know the worst bit? Realising that you are never again going to pick them up off the sofa and carry them up to bed *without waking them.*
    No, not for me. Tho that is a sweet moment: putting them to bed

    For me, the terrible moment comes somewhere around 10-12 - and is in fact a sequence of moments - when they lose that perfect innocent childish unselfawareness, and the adult begins to emerge. They look at a toy, or a doll, or their favourite book - and they thrust it away. They do not need help to get to sleep. The door is shut. You hear the first troubled sigh of teenagerdom, which lies just ahead

    I found it piercing, and quite saddening, but unavoidable of course, and something comes along to replace it. Sort of
    What about the moment when they realize you're not superman you're just a bloke and quite a dodgy one too?

    Or hasn't that happened yet?
    For me it was the other way around. I’m serious. A deep period of mistrust gave way to “actually dad’s quite fun, if a bit unreliable”

    That was a GOOD moment
    I am at that moment that you refer to upthread - the start of teenagerdom - with my eldest. It is painful, and repeatedly saddening. The world's weight is on her shoulders. She is no longer carefree, nor does she want to be.
    And then, as today, I look at her in a moment of joy, and cry actual tears of pride and awe. Quite apart from all of her more important qualities, she is just so astonishingly beautiful.
    If only she would realise it, at least a bit.
    Yes, it’s an unspoken sadness of parenting

    You fall in love with this person. Your child. And then they change. Profoundly. More than any spouse might change

    The experience is not unlike grief, to my mind. And it seems near universal if you dig deep enough

    And then they often move away…and seem to forget all about you. This is of course what you want to a certain extent

    But it’s hard for the parent

    I’m not at the moving away stage yet but I can see the sadness in friends to whom it has already happened

    That's interesting. Do people really change that much? My eldest turns 16 next month and I wouldn't say she has really changed much from when she was a little girl.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    India imho
    It's clearly Russia. The women are stunning, lean beauties, while the men tend to be scrawny teenagers that graduate to be flabby, dumpy types that age very quickly.
    Belarus is incredible for this. The woman are possibly even more beautiful than Russians (what is it with Eastern European genes and cheekbones?) and yet the men are apathetic drunks who die at 56

    Honestly. Check out the life expectancy stats for Belarus. The men die about 15 years younger or something mad
    The standard in Eastern Europe is simply phenomenal.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Deleted
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
     
    junius said:

    I too remember the Coronation of 1953. I was 9 years old.
    Yes - a host of relatives crowded into an Uncle's house to watch his tiny telly.
    Curtains drawn all day - couldn't see the telly if the room wasn't dark.
    My bottom ached from sitting on an upright chair for hours and hours. And if I asked a simple question like "Who is that person?" - the relatives would reply in unison "shush your noise" - we are watching the Coronation".

    Someone had told me beforehand that the Queen would have her breast anointed with oil at some stage in the proceedings. I got ready to go to the toilet when that happened to avoid my juvenile embarrassment. I think the anointing was done behind a screen - for which I was grateful.

    Oh how I looked forward to being back at school the following day.


    Hi junius, you're the same age as me. Lots of people got their first tv for the coronation, my family too. As a choirboy I had learned the various anthems like Zadok the Priest for the coronation, which were sung in church.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Largest no of beautiful, or beautifullest?
    Both. I think. Most beautiful per capita and the extremely beautifullest

    Runner up countries


    Ukraine
    Iceland
    Japan
    Northern Italy
    The Basters of Namibia


    I’ve heard Mongolian women are GORGE… but I’ve not been there
    Golly, perhaps Basters look better when out of that ridiculous kit.
    Lol yes. Google images is not flattering

    I’ve been to the baster capital - Rehobotj. And they really were notably pretty - or so I recall 🤷‍♂️

    Their name literally means “bastard”. They are the offspring of breeding between whites and Khoisan

    And Khoisan can be strikingly lovely. The cheekbones thing again. Zulu men used to prey upon petite San women for their looks
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1532312890451144704

    Johnson has clearly never put his son to bed in his life

    And it is the easiest, most rewarding thing in the whole of parenthood.

    You know the worst bit? Realising that you are never again going to pick them up off the sofa and carry them up to bed *without waking them.*
    No, not for me. Tho that is a sweet moment: putting them to bed

    For me, the terrible moment comes somewhere around 10-12 - and is in fact a sequence of moments - when they lose that perfect innocent childish unselfawareness, and the adult begins to emerge. They look at a toy, or a doll, or their favourite book - and they thrust it away. They do not need help to get to sleep. The door is shut. You hear the first troubled sigh of teenagerdom, which lies just ahead

    I found it piercing, and quite saddening, but unavoidable of course, and something comes along to replace it. Sort of
    What about the moment when they realize you're not superman you're just a bloke and quite a dodgy one too?

    Or hasn't that happened yet?
    For me it was the other way around. I’m serious. A deep period of mistrust gave way to “actually dad’s quite fun, if a bit unreliable”

    That was a GOOD moment
    I am at that moment that you refer to upthread - the start of teenagerdom - with my eldest. It is painful, and repeatedly saddening. The world's weight is on her shoulders. She is no longer carefree, nor does she want to be.
    And then, as today, I look at her in a moment of joy, and cry actual tears of pride and awe. Quite apart from all of her more important qualities, she is just so astonishingly beautiful.
    If only she would realise it, at least a bit.
    Yes, it’s an unspoken sadness of parenting

    You fall in love with this person. Your child. And then they change. Profoundly. More than any spouse might change

    The experience is not unlike grief, to my mind. And it seems near universal if you dig deep enough

    And then they often move away…and seem to forget all about you. This is of course what you want to a certain extent

    But it’s hard for the parent

    I’m not at the moving away stage yet but I can see the sadness in friends to whom it has already happened

    I don't know what will happen with my daughter (now three) in her teenage years but all the horror stories I heard about babies, the terrible-twos and a threenager have turned out not to be true.

    I also see many children who continue to have close relationships with their parents into adulthood, although that of course changes in nature, so we will roll with the punches and hope to come out ok the other side.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    I've just come back from an afternoon Jubilee party on our street, in the back garden of one of the houses. The organisers had had a Ukrainian lady arrive this week to stay, along with her two young children.

    Also present were two Indian kids who had only been in the country for a year. In total there were about eight kids between five and eight years old, with some not speaking any English, others speaking it a little, and the rest native speakers.

    And the kids picked up balls and played together without any argument or rancour. Throwing the ball to each other, kicking it, wrestling playfully and generally having fun together, despite not really understanding each other.

    It was brilliant to watch. And it's clear that the things that so often divide us: racism, sexism, -ism's in general, are not inherent traits, but learned ones.

    Great isn’t it? Incidentally our six blue-tit chicks left the nest this morning.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Largest no of beautiful, or beautifullest?
    Both. I think. Most beautiful per capita and the extremely beautifullest

    Runner up countries


    Ukraine
    Iceland
    Japan
    Northern Italy
    The Basters of Namibia


    I’ve heard Mongolian women are GORGE… but I’ve not been there
    Golly, perhaps Basters look better when out of that ridiculous kit.
    Lol yes. Google images is not flattering

    I’ve been to the baster capital - Rehobotj. And they really were notably pretty - or so I recall 🤷‍♂️

    Their name literally means “bastard”. They are the offspring of breeding between whites and Khoisan

    And Khoisan can be strikingly lovely. The cheekbones thing again. Zulu men used to prey upon petite San women for their looks
    Bugger google images, I've been to Namibia and seen deez ladies in da flesh. But praps not looked closely enough.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446

    NZers are astonishingly ugly and badly dressed.

    I should know.

    Combination of harsh sun, presbyterian heritage, dairy-farming lifestyle and physical remoteness from anywhere approaching a cosmopolitan metro.

    I'm afraid I agree.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Poor Her Majesty.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Poor Her Majesty.

    Dumbass Monarchists :lol:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Queen to miss Friday events after 'discomfort'

    We've just had this from Buckingham Palace:

    The Queen greatly enjoyed today’s birthday parade and flypast but did experience some discomfort. Taking into account the journey and activity required to participate in tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, Her Majesty with great reluctance has concluded that she will not attend. The Queen is looking forward to participating in tonight’s beacon lighting event at Windsor Castle and would like to thank all those who made today such a memorable occasion."

    The Queen greatly enjoyed today’s birthday parade and flypast but did experience some discomfort. Taking into account the journey and activity required to participate in tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, Her Majesty with great reluctance has concluded that she will not attend. The Queen is looking forward to participating in tonight’s beacon lighting event at Windsor Castle and would like to thank all those who made today such a memorable occasion."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    edited June 2022

    Farooq said:

    Watched Borgen instalment 1. Some thoughts:

    * It's much tauter and fast-moving than the first series, and the politicians are more aggressive to each other. Not sure this reflects Danish politics as much - more for the international audience? - but it's pretty exciting.
    * Several strong characters in minor parts - the Alastair Campbell figure who the PM tries to install as her adviser is especially good
    * Absolutely up to date - the main plot is about an oil company findin ga huge deposit which turns out to be partly owned by a friend of Putin, and the Ministers refer to the Ukraine invasion as a reason not to accept that
    -* The subtitles generally good but persist (as with previous Danish series) in throwing in random "fucks" to juice it up. Someone says "I really don't think it was OK how you were treated", and the subtitle is "It was fucking unfair how you were treated."

    What was the Danish phrasing for "I really don't think it was OK how you were treated"? A "sgu" can hide quite well in rapid speech and makes the meaning a lot more brusque.
    Agreed, but as I recall it was simply "Jeg synes ikke det var OK, hvordan man har behandlet dig". I ran it back to check, and the fuck was definitely the subtitler's embellishment. I remember the subtitling company being challenged on it before during The Killing, and they said that British audiences are so used to seeing characters swear that they had to juice it up to be credible.
    The BBC defended that by saying that the translators' task is "not just a straight translation - it's a rewrite. Often a direct translation would be awkward and stilted and would not read well on screen."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15781133
    Sure, all translated works have to deal with that, but would British audiences really find a lack of swearing awkward and stilted? I've no issue with being pretty flexible in the translation of things, but adding random swears seems an odd one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Strikes me as a decent point about how a strength can also be a weakness.

    A disruptive personality can be an electoral asset when seen to disrupt an enemy (e.g. a disliked 'establishment'), but becomes a major liability when seen to be a cause of disruption to the daily lives of many millions (work, NHS, care homes, schools, standard of living, etc).


    https://twitter.com/george_yarrow/status/1532254822082256896
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    I think this is a sign that Macron and the French want to honour the Treaty of Troyes.

    Jubilé d’Elizabeth II: l'hymne britannique "God save the Queen" joué à l'Arc de Triomphe

    https://twitter.com/BFMTV/status/1532401763365568514

    I am prepared to serve as Her Majesty's Governor/First Minister of Aquitaine.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Largest no of beautiful, or beautifullest?
    Both. I think. Most beautiful per capita and the extremely beautifullest

    Runner up countries


    Ukraine
    Iceland
    Japan
    Northern Italy
    The Basters of Namibia


    I’ve heard Mongolian women are GORGE… but I’ve not been there
    Golly, perhaps Basters look better when out of that ridiculous kit.
    Lol yes. Google images is not flattering

    I’ve been to the baster capital - Rehobotj. And they really were notably pretty - or so I recall 🤷‍♂️

    Their name literally means “bastard”. They are the offspring of breeding between whites and Khoisan

    And Khoisan can be strikingly lovely. The cheekbones thing again. Zulu men used to prey upon petite San women for their looks
    What is it with you and your "cheekbone" fetish??
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Largest no of beautiful, or beautifullest?
    Both. I think. Most beautiful per capita and the extremely beautifullest

    Runner up countries


    Ukraine
    Iceland
    Japan
    Northern Italy
    The Basters of Namibia


    I’ve heard Mongolian women are GORGE… but I’ve not been there
    What's wrong with the poor people of Southern Italy?

    And I'd be interested if there is a place with the most divergence between sexes eg beautiful men/ugly women or ugly men/beautiful women (to the extent such a thing could be 'objective'ly judged anyway).
  • PJHPJH Posts: 645
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1532312890451144704

    Johnson has clearly never put his son to bed in his life

    And it is the easiest, most rewarding thing in the whole of parenthood.

    You know the worst bit? Realising that you are never again going to pick them up off the sofa and carry them up to bed *without waking them.*
    No, not for me. Tho that is a sweet moment: putting them to bed

    For me, the terrible moment comes somewhere around 10-12 - and is in fact a sequence of moments - when they lose that perfect innocent childish unselfawareness, and the adult begins to emerge. They look at a toy, or a doll, or their favourite book - and they thrust it away. They do not need help to get to sleep. The door is shut. You hear the first troubled sigh of teenagerdom, which lies just ahead

    I found it piercing, and quite saddening, but unavoidable of course, and something comes along to replace it. Sort of
    What about the moment when they realize you're not superman you're just a bloke and quite a dodgy one too?

    Or hasn't that happened yet?
    For me it was the other way around. I’m serious. A deep period of mistrust gave way to “actually dad’s quite fun, if a bit unreliable”

    That was a GOOD moment
    I am at that moment that you refer to upthread - the start of teenagerdom - with my eldest. It is painful, and repeatedly saddening. The world's weight is on her shoulders. She is no longer carefree, nor does she want to be.
    And then, as today, I look at her in a moment of joy, and cry actual tears of pride and awe. Quite apart from all of her more important qualities, she is just so astonishingly beautiful.
    If only she would realise it, at least a bit.
    For me it was somewhere around 11/12 when suddenly I realised we didn't go to the swings any more.

    On the other hand, you go through some sticky moments in the teenage years and then suddenly you have this mature 20-year old who you can talk about anything with and who gives advice on whether I should sell up and clear the mortgage (and BTW yes I should, even though it's against her self interest).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    Queen to miss Friday events after 'discomfort'

    We've just had this from Buckingham Palace:

    The Queen greatly enjoyed today’s birthday parade and flypast but did experience some discomfort. Taking into account the journey and activity required to participate in tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, Her Majesty with great reluctance has concluded that she will not attend. The Queen is looking forward to participating in tonight’s beacon lighting event at Windsor Castle and would like to thank all those who made today such a memorable occasion."

    The Queen greatly enjoyed today’s birthday parade and flypast but did experience some discomfort. Taking into account the journey and activity required to participate in tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, Her Majesty with great reluctance has concluded that she will not attend. The Queen is looking forward to participating in tonight’s beacon lighting event at Windsor Castle and would like to thank all those who made today such a memorable occasion."

    Sounds like she's got some other issues if she's having to say it twice.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Largest no of beautiful, or beautifullest?
    Both. I think. Most beautiful per capita and the extremely beautifullest

    Runner up countries


    Ukraine
    Iceland
    Japan
    Northern Italy
    The Basters of Namibia


    I’ve heard Mongolian women are GORGE… but I’ve not been there
    Golly, perhaps Basters look better when out of that ridiculous kit.
    Lol yes. Google images is not flattering

    I’ve been to the baster capital - Rehobotj. And they really were notably pretty - or so I recall 🤷‍♂️

    Their name literally means “bastard”. They are the offspring of breeding between whites and Khoisan

    And Khoisan can be strikingly lovely. The cheekbones thing again. Zulu men used to prey upon petite San women for their looks
    What is it with you and your "cheekbone" fetish??
    Never heard people praise cheekbones or utilise makeup to emphasise them? Countouring I think it's called.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    Queen to miss Friday events after 'discomfort'

    We've just had this from Buckingham Palace:

    The Queen greatly enjoyed today’s birthday parade and flypast but did experience some discomfort. Taking into account the journey and activity required to participate in tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, Her Majesty with great reluctance has concluded that she will not attend. The Queen is looking forward to participating in tonight’s beacon lighting event at Windsor Castle and would like to thank all those who made today such a memorable occasion."

    The Queen greatly enjoyed today’s birthday parade and flypast but did experience some discomfort. Taking into account the journey and activity required to participate in tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, Her Majesty with great reluctance has concluded that she will not attend. The Queen is looking forward to participating in tonight’s beacon lighting event at Windsor Castle and would like to thank all those who made today such a memorable occasion."

    Sounds like she's got some other issues if she's having to say it twice.
    Not your normal stutter certainly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    I don't really approve of this kind of thing. But the answer is Sri Lanka.
    Just open it up to all sexes, then it is fine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Largest no of beautiful, or beautifullest?
    Both. I think. Most beautiful per capita and the extremely beautifullest

    Runner up countries


    Ukraine
    Iceland
    Japan
    Northern Italy
    The Basters of Namibia


    I’ve heard Mongolian women are GORGE… but I’ve not been there
    Golly, perhaps Basters look better when out of that ridiculous kit.
    Lol yes. Google images is not flattering

    I’ve been to the baster capital - Rehobotj. And they really were notably pretty - or so I recall 🤷‍♂️

    Their name literally means “bastard”. They are the offspring of breeding between whites and Khoisan

    And Khoisan can be strikingly lovely. The cheekbones thing again. Zulu men used to prey upon petite San women for their looks
    Bugger google images, I've been to Namibia and seen deez ladies in da flesh. But praps not looked closely enough.
    Yes the mists of memory might be colouring my perspective

    Absolutely true about Khoisan women tho. Or the ones I met, anyway
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    I've just come back from an afternoon Jubilee party on our street, in the back garden of one of the houses. The organisers had had a Ukrainian lady arrive this week to stay, along with her two young children.

    Also present were two Indian kids who had only been in the country for a year. In total there were about eight kids between five and eight years old, with some not speaking any English, others speaking it a little, and the rest native speakers.

    And the kids picked up balls and played together without any argument or rancour. Throwing the ball to each other, kicking it, wrestling playfully and generally having fun together, despite not really understanding each other.

    It was brilliant to watch. And it's clear that the things that so often divide us: racism, sexism, -ism's in general, are not inherent traits, but learned ones.

    Great isn’t it? Incidentally our six blue-tit chicks left the nest this morning.
    Good to know someone had success!

    Sadly all ours died last week. There was a lot of rain and wind on ?Tuesday? afternoon, and whilst I think I saw the mother after it, she did not return to the nestbox to roost that night, and I've not seen her since. The dad seemed to do his best, but I think the cold and/or hunger got the weakest chicks on that first night. Another succumbed the second day, but two were feeding very well from the dad all day. The next morning they could barely raise their heads up (it had been a coldish night), and they died that day.

    A little upsetting for our son, but also a good lesson on nature.

    (The mother had been looking ill for some time - she had a large bald spot at the back of her neck and head with no feathers. My guess is either attack from another bird or some form of mite infestation. Perhaps connected with her disappearance, perhaps not.)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1532312890451144704

    Johnson has clearly never put his son to bed in his life

    And it is the easiest, most rewarding thing in the whole of parenthood.

    You know the worst bit? Realising that you are never again going to pick them up off the sofa and carry them up to bed *without waking them.*
    No, not for me. Tho that is a sweet moment: putting them to bed

    For me, the terrible moment comes somewhere around 10-12 - and is in fact a sequence of moments - when they lose that perfect innocent childish unselfawareness, and the adult begins to emerge. They look at a toy, or a doll, or their favourite book - and they thrust it away. They do not need help to get to sleep. The door is shut. You hear the first troubled sigh of teenagerdom, which lies just ahead

    I found it piercing, and quite saddening, but unavoidable of course, and something comes along to replace it. Sort of
    What about the moment when they realize you're not superman you're just a bloke and quite a dodgy one too?

    Or hasn't that happened yet?
    For me it was the other way around. I’m serious. A deep period of mistrust gave way to “actually dad’s quite fun, if a bit unreliable”

    That was a GOOD moment
    I am at that moment that you refer to upthread - the start of teenagerdom - with my eldest. It is painful, and repeatedly saddening. The world's weight is on her shoulders. She is no longer carefree, nor does she want to be.
    And then, as today, I look at her in a moment of joy, and cry actual tears of pride and awe. Quite apart from all of her more important qualities, she is just so astonishingly beautiful.
    If only she would realise it, at least a bit.
    Yes, it’s an unspoken sadness of parenting

    You fall in love with this person. Your child. And then they change. Profoundly. More than any spouse might change

    The experience is not unlike grief, to my mind. And it seems near universal if you dig deep enough

    And then they often move away…and seem to forget all about you. This is of course what you want to a certain extent

    But it’s hard for the parent

    I’m not at the moving away stage yet but I can see the sadness in friends to whom it has already happened

    That's interesting. Do people really change that much? My eldest turns 16 next month and I wouldn't say she has really changed much from when she was a little girl.
    National cultures vary in this, as of course do individuals. I was brought up in the East European tradition of staying with my parents - in fact they were still with me until my father died when I was 34 and my mother when I was 49. The relationship changed gradually from dependence to equality (my father said he came to think of me as a younger brother) to dependence the other way round. We shared the family bank account from when I was 18. Some girlfriends thought it odd, others weren't bothered, and I got married when my mother was still around. It's only in later life that I've realised how peculiar it seems with British eyes.

    It had pros and cons. The difficult trandition that the other comments describe just didn't happen - we became basically three equal adults, and the affection and friendship was a constant throughout, giving a sense of solidity and confidence that has served me well. But it did mean I was abnormally responsible and never had a wild experimentation stage - they wouldn't have tried to stop it if I'd come home drunk or stoned three nights a week, but would have politely asked if I thought it wise. In retrospect I think moving out but living nearby might have the right balance. But the sharp "move away and forget about you" tradition in Britain is maybe too much the other way?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    Thought it was Finland? Tom of Finland and all that. OK, quite a bit of overlap.
    Somehow I doubt that the male population of Finland consists principally of 6'7" horse hung, leather clad muscle Marys.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283

    I think this is a sign that Macron and the French want to honour the Treaty of Troyes.

    Jubilé d’Elizabeth II: l'hymne britannique "God save the Queen" joué à l'Arc de Triomphe

    https://twitter.com/BFMTV/status/1532401763365568514

    I am prepared to serve as Her Majesty's Governor/First Minister of Aquitaine.

    I think it’s more a sign that Macron realise the Stade de France debacle has not gone down well in the UK
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    My wife, and the last few of my ex-girlfriends, were all foreign-born, so I guess I like the looks of foreign women. But I would say the most beautiful people - men and women - tend to be mixed-race. I knew a stunning German-Iranian lady, and another who was quarter English, quarter Scottish, quarter Chinese and quarter Guyanan. Looks wise, she appeared rather Japanese...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    Thought it was Finland? Tom of Finland and all that. OK, quite a bit of overlap.
    Somehow I doubt that the male population of Finland consists principally of 6'7" horse hung, leather clad muscle Marys.
    A man can dream, though...
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Jeez they really are a spineless bunch . They’re beginning to annoy me more than Johnson does .
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Tories holding Tiverton is a perfectly reasonable prospect. But it would change nothing about the real Tory problem. If they delay on 'wait and see' grounds, as they have now for several months, there may never come an end to it. There is always the next milestone, just as there is always the next poll.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    You should see the women in the area between Finchley Rd and Fitzjohns Avenue in North West London - Cor!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    Thought it was Finland? Tom of Finland and all that. OK, quite a bit of overlap.
    Somehow I doubt that the male population of Finland consists principally of 6'7" horse hung, leather clad muscle Marys.
    A man can dream, though...
    I'm saying no more. My husband might read this shit.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Westminster Voting Intention (1 June):

    Labour 39% (-4)
    Conservative 33% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 12% (+2)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (+1)
    Reform UK 4% (+2)
    Other 1% (-1)

    Changes +/- 29 May

    Reversion of an outlier then.

    I guess Rishi's fabled "saviour" budget has failed to hit the mark once again
    Neither Gray nor Rishi appear to have made any difference
    my take is reversing the outlier is important, the outlier was the only poll since 19th May didn’t put Tories 33 or less, even Kantor and Opinion put them down there. Rather than “ Neither Gray nor Rishi appear to have made any difference” I contest it is a clear drop off in support across the polling firms.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    Thought it was Finland? Tom of Finland and all that. OK, quite a bit of overlap.
    Somehow I doubt that the male population of Finland consists principally of 6'7" horse hung, leather clad muscle Marys.
    Omg that’s so funny !
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    My wife, and the last few of my ex-girlfriends, were all foreign-born, so I guess I like the looks of foreign women. But I would say the most beautiful people - men and women - tend to be mixed-race. I knew a stunning German-Iranian lady, and another who was quarter English, quarter Scottish, quarter Chinese and quarter Guyanan. Looks wise, she appeared rather Japanese...
    Eurasian people are often stunning, I agree

    One of the most beautiful girls I ever met was half Icelandic half Syrian. The mix was utterly intoxicating, even bewildering

    But go to Nepal to see a consistently amazing number of beautiful girls. It proves beauty has absolutely nothing to do with wealth, inter alia. They are so painfully poor.

    Nepalese men are also very good looking, they look like dashing hussars, they look like Terence Stamp in Far From The Madding Crowd (1967), but they are also short and skinny, so maybe less appealing to women. Dunno
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    nico679 said:

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Jeez they really are a spineless bunch . They’re beginning to annoy me more than Johnson does .
    Mainly trolling by the guardian, but yes: bedwetters.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    algarkirk said:

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Tories holding Tiverton is a perfectly reasonable prospect. But it would change nothing about the real Tory problem. If they delay on 'wait and see' grounds, as they have now for several months, there may never come an end to it. There is always the next milestone, just as there is always the next poll.
    A likely outcome is that the anti-Johnson faction dither, look for reasons to delay, sink into depressed defeatism and just give up. Especially those who have very large majorities and, feeling personally safe from the wrath of the electorate, succeed in convincing themselves of the "a period in opposition would do us good" argument.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    kinabalu said:

    You should see the women in the area between Finchley Rd and Fitzjohns Avenue in North West London - Cor!

    Ah, the yummy mummy brigade taking their kids to Devonshire House, The Hall, Northbridge, etc.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    IshmaelZ said:

    nico679 said:

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Jeez they really are a spineless bunch . They’re beginning to annoy me more than Johnson does .
    Mainly trolling by the guardian, but yes: bedwetters.
    Big headline “leading rebel urges fellow rebels take back your letters” not matched by story, the protagonist not even named.

    I’m sensing a clear push now by the left, their media friends, to try and keep Boris there, either avoid the vonc or ensure Boris wins it. Ideal scenario for both Starmer and Guardian, Boris winning vonc and they can both repeatedly play disunity card.

    It’s politics I suppose.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    edited June 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    You should see the women in the area between Finchley Rd and Fitzjohns Avenue in North West London - Cor!

    Ah, the yummy mummy brigade taking their kids to Devonshire House, The Hall, Northbridge, etc.
    Being in and around The Red Lion and Sun in Highgate at about 3.30-4pm on a weekday is never a bad thing
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    My wife, and the last few of my ex-girlfriends, were all foreign-born, so I guess I like the looks of foreign women. But I would say the most beautiful people - men and women - tend to be mixed-race. I knew a stunning German-Iranian lady, and another who was quarter English, quarter Scottish, quarter Chinese and quarter Guyanan. Looks wise, she appeared rather Japanese...
    Some of the more unusual looking people may be found in Havre, Montana. The original mid-19th century inhabitants were 25% escaped slaves, 25% Chinese railroad navvies, 25% native American Cree and 25% Russian. After rolling the dice for six or seven generations the current population can best be described as sui generis.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    algarkirk said:

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Tories holding Tiverton is a perfectly reasonable prospect. But it would change nothing about the real Tory problem. If they delay on 'wait and see' grounds, as they have now for several months, there may never come an end to it. There is always the next milestone, just as there is always the next poll.


    I 100% agree with this post. Couldn’t have put it better myself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    My wife, and the last few of my ex-girlfriends, were all foreign-born, so I guess I like the looks of foreign women. But I would say the most beautiful people - men and women - tend to be mixed-race. I knew a stunning German-Iranian lady, and another who was quarter English, quarter Scottish, quarter Chinese and quarter Guyanan. Looks wise, she appeared rather Japanese...
    Some of the more unusual looking people may be found in Havre, Montana. The original mid-19th century inhabitants were 25% escaped slaves, 25% Chinese railroad navvies, 25% native American Cree and 25% Russian. After rolling the dice for six or seven generations the current population can best be described as sui generis.
    Lol


    Yes, it is definitely true that racial mixing does not ALWAYS produce stunning people. It can also go horribly wrong
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXKUIU9zs
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Watching Borgen anyway. Great to have it back but rather too much effing and blinding for my taste. Why oh why? ...
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXKUIU9zs
    a memorable advert of course but not as catchy as the all time catchy ad lyrics so much that I can still recall it today

    Shake n vac!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q8inM0gKVo
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022
    pigeon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Interesting panic among some of the Tory rebels:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/boris-johnson-tory-rebel-mps-no-confidence-letters-gray-report

    Waiting for the electorate in the by-elections to do the job for them strikes me as a bit spineless. What if the results are closer than expected, do they just give up?

    Tories holding Tiverton is a perfectly reasonable prospect. But it would change nothing about the real Tory problem. If they delay on 'wait and see' grounds, as they have now for several months, there may never come an end to it. There is always the next milestone, just as there is always the next poll.
    A likely outcome is that the anti-Johnson faction dither, look for reasons to delay, sink into depressed defeatism and just give up. Especially those who have very large majorities and, feeling personally safe from the wrath of the electorate, succeed in convincing themselves of the "a period in opposition would do us good" argument.
    In terms of winning, maybe waiting till the by election results is sensible, but my reading of next weeks vonc is it’s happened by not being about winning. I sense some of them now arn’t interested wether the vonc is won or not, they just want to have the sort of religious absolution of telling Boris he doesn’t have their support “not in my name” hence they can put letters in secret, some have spoken out publicly and thoughtfully and not even said they have letters in. It’s not about vonc winning but the public disavowal of Boris for absolution. That is what is driving this.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
     
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    I just googled this (I like to live dangerously) and I think you're talking about some defunct airline? All a bit before my time if so, sorry.
    Whoosh. Even more before your time. And place.

  • NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    edited June 2022
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    My wife, and the last few of my ex-girlfriends, were all foreign-born, so I guess I like the looks of foreign women. But I would say the most beautiful people - men and women - tend to be mixed-race. I knew a stunning German-Iranian lady, and another who was quarter English, quarter Scottish, quarter Chinese and quarter Guyanan. Looks wise, she appeared rather Japanese...
    Some of the more unusual looking people may be found in Havre, Montana. The original mid-19th century inhabitants were 25% escaped slaves, 25% Chinese railroad navvies, 25% native American Cree and 25% Russian. After rolling the dice for six or seven generations the current population can best be described as sui generis.
    Why is there a placed named "harbour" a thousand kilometres from the sea.
    Something wrong with these people.
    Because it used to be called Bullhook Bottoms.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Not Thailand?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    kinabalu said:

    Watching Borgen anyway. Great to have it back but rather too much effing and blinding for my taste. Why oh why? ...

    I thought we had a Borgen conclusion, but this is great premise for a story - the immense money in the oil, the Greenland independence and environmental factors as well as the political ones of parties exploiting the money.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Are you a grim reaper ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    My wife, and the last few of my ex-girlfriends, were all foreign-born, so I guess I like the looks of foreign women. But I would say the most beautiful people - men and women - tend to be mixed-race. I knew a stunning German-Iranian lady, and another who was quarter English, quarter Scottish, quarter Chinese and quarter Guyanan. Looks wise, she appeared rather Japanese...
    Some of the more unusual looking people may be found in Havre, Montana. The original mid-19th century inhabitants were 25% escaped slaves, 25% Chinese railroad navvies, 25% native American Cree and 25% Russian. After rolling the dice for six or seven generations the current population can best be described as sui generis.
    Why is there a placed named "harbour" a thousand kilometres from the sea.
    Something wrong with these people.
    In England at least there are many locations called ‘cold harbour’, and ‘cold harbour lane’. Historically believed to have been shelter for travelers who couldn’t afford lodgings.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    anyone else thinks it Saturday night?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    anyone else thinks it Saturday night?

    No but you have just caused me to add One More Saturday Night to my play queue so thanks
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    Not Thailand?
    Definitely not Thailand. A really bad evolution in the Thai diet - the usual stuff, carbs, fast food, sugary treats - means they’ve gone from being slender and fine-complexioned to quite podgy and spotty in about 30 years

    And for the purposes of balance this has also happened in the UK of course. It is a global phenomenon. Feck, it’s happened in my own family

    One of the reasons Eastern European and East Asian women are so attractive is, perhaps, that they seem to be resisting the global tendency to blob out, so far
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Is it true that Anglo-Saxons are the least attractive ethnic group?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Andy_JS said:

    Is it true that Anglo-Saxons are the least attractive ethnic group?

    Depends.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    Andy_JS said:

    Is it true that Anglo-Saxons are the least attractive ethnic group?

    Absolutely not.

    Pope Gregory the Great famously said, of the Anglo Saxon slaves in a Rome market, when told they were “Angles” - “not Angles, but angels!” - because they were so blonde and well built and beautiful. It is supposedly one reason he sent Saint Augustine to convert the British Isles

    Sadly the Brits have got fat, like so many other nationalities
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXKUIU9zs
    When they ran this 'Singapore Girls' ad in the 80's a well known creative did a critique saying "It's not the Singapore girls we're worried about. It's the Singapore bloke who's flying the plane!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hnhWYJU7VY
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,797
    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXKUIU9zs
    a memorable advert of course but not as catchy as the all time catchy ad lyrics so much that I can still recall it today

    Shake n vac!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q8inM0gKVo
    FOR MASH GET SMASH
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, it's the men. Which is great for the men.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    anyone else thinks it Saturday night?

    Yes. Bloody monarchy.
    Only Heineken can do this, surely? Changing not-Saturday into Saturday, is water into wine. The problem usually is Monday bank holidays, which effectively give you two Sunday nights in a row.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    You cannot beat a British holiday
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    kinabalu said:

    Watching Borgen anyway. Great to have it back but rather too much effing and blinding for my taste. Why oh why? ...

    Yes, that's the subtitles, not in the original Danish (see discussion downthread).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,797
    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXKUIU9zs
    a memorable advert of course but not as catchy as the all time catchy ad lyrics so much that I can still recall it today

    Shake n vac!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q8inM0gKVo
    FOR MASH GET SMASH
    Best advert for anything ever in any medium was a little quarter or 8th page you used to see in the 70s. No illustration, just

    Quartz Halogen headlights.

    They won't make your mini look like an E Type.

    Except after dark.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    “She’ll have passed by the end of the year”

    Blimey. Way to go for the jugular
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial opinion of the day: what country has the most beautiful women?

    I’m going out on an unexpected limb and I’m going to say…

    …. Drum roll……

    …. Nepal

    YES. NEPAL

    What about the most beautiful men?
    (It's Sweden)
    What about the country with the biggest discrepancy between male and female attractiveness?
    Easy. Scotland.
    Are you saying that Scottish women are ugly?
    No, the other way around, sadly.
    The red hair and alabaster skin makes a lot of men look like those eyeless albino cave fish. For some reason it suits the women better. Pale and interesting types. Pheasant hair and freckles. Amy Pond.
    You wish they all could be Caledonian girls?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXKUIU9zs
    a memorable advert of course but not as catchy as the all time catchy ad lyrics so much that I can still recall it today

    Shake n vac!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q8inM0gKVo
    FOR MASH GET SMASH
    what does a Mars a day do?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    Go to the Scillies. They are everything Cornwall aspires to be.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Leon said:

    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.


    Unless New Zealand can boast exquisite thatched villages, medieval churches, grand aristocratic estates, ancient monasteries, tiny river valleys adorned with 14th century pubs, mystical stone circles, haunted castles, and UNESCO listed ruins of a 5000 year old industry which changed the world - which I tend to doubt - then this is fucking bollocks
    Moa Cornish exceptionalism ...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
    Also, the English for "die" is "die." Not fucking pass.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,797
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    Respectfully, a strong disagree. Beaches with rivers are bad news due to agricultural runoff. Who knows what muck is getting washed off the fields directly into your bathing water?
    Well I take your point, but having something to dam is part of the fun. It only has to be a little stream.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Interesting to note that Mick Fealty has decided to leave Twitter after 15 years, explaining his reasons here:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/06/01/why-im-leaving-twitter-fifteen-years-after-i-first-jumped-into-an-unending-stream-of-news-and-tat/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    Go to the Scillies. They are everything Cornwall aspires to be.
    30 miles off the coast?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Alphabet_Soup said:
    Some of the more unusual looking people may be found in Havre, Montana. The original mid-19th century inhabitants were 25% escaped slaves, 25% Chinese railroad navvies, 25% native American Cree and 25% Russian. After rolling the dice for six or seven generations the current population can best be described as sui generis.
    Judging by the Wikipedia article on Havre, Montana, that description seems a bit, shall we say, "imaginative":
    As of the census[22] of 2010, there were 9,310 people, 3,900 households, and 2,293 families living in the city. The population density was 2,838.4 inhabitants per square mile (1,095.9/km2). There were 4,285 housing units at an average density of 1,306.4 per square mile (504.4/km2). The racial makeup of the city was 81.6% White, 0.4% African American, 13.0% Native American, 0.6% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 0.3% from other races, and 4.0% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.5% of the population.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havre,_Montana

    The article also has an explanation for the name change.

    (My mother's first teaching job was in a one-room schoolhouse in Montana, though not particularly near Havre.)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
    Also, the English for "die" is "die." Not fucking pass.
    yes ever heard of the film- Passed Away Hard 9
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
    Indeed.

    Not sure how back problems when standing for a while equates to death, but then again I'm not a doctor.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
    Also, the English for "die" is "die." Not fucking pass.
    Unless you are a southern preacher, or Toni Morrison or something, yes.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
    Also, the English for "die" is "die." Not fucking pass.
    yes ever heard of the film- Passed Away Hard 9
    I haven't. Christmas movie, is it?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.


    Unless New Zealand can boast exquisite thatched villages, medieval churches, grand aristocratic estates, ancient monasteries, tiny river valleys adorned with 14th century pubs, mystical stone circles, haunted castles, and UNESCO listed ruins of a 5000 year old industry which changed the world - which I tend to doubt - then this is fucking bollocks
    Yeh we don’t have any of those.
    But we do have weird-as-fuck wildlife, lakes inhabited by Māori water-monsters (taniwha) and fucking hobbits.

    And better wine, too.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,797

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    Ah, the grand old Georgian musical traditions live on, wonderfully!

    The picturesque wine bar at the end of my derelict but adorable 18th century street in Old Tbilisi is having a birthday party, and it is full of young people, lustily singing along to…. Sex Bomb by Tom Jones and I Love You Baby
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    Go to the Scillies. They are everything Cornwall aspires to be.
    30 miles off the coast?
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    MattW said:

    Interesting to note that Mick Fealty has decided to leave Twitter after 15 years, explaining his reasons here:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/06/01/why-im-leaving-twitter-fifteen-years-after-i-first-jumped-into-an-unending-stream-of-news-and-tat/

    Never heard of him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283

    Leon said:

    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.


    Unless New Zealand can boast exquisite thatched villages, medieval churches, grand aristocratic estates, ancient monasteries, tiny river valleys adorned with 14th century pubs, mystical stone circles, haunted castles, and UNESCO listed ruins of a 5000 year old industry which changed the world - which I tend to doubt - then this is fucking bollocks
    Yeh we don’t have any of those.
    But we do have weird-as-fuck wildlife, lakes inhabited by Māori water-monsters (taniwha) and fucking hobbits.

    And better wine, too.
    I’d love to go to NZ. I hear the landscapes are spectacular and I have major traveler friends who rave about it

    But it ain’t Cornwall. And nor is Cornwall NZ.

    The mix of history and landscape and people and seascape is what makes Cornwall special, and NZ does not have the history and people

    But of course NZ has glaciers and Alps and wonderful lakes and Cornwall has none of that. So, a fairly poor comparison
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,797
    Lest I sound too smug, I should admit that the tops of my feet are rather sunburned and I am currently worrying about when to intervene in the 'game' going on outside which seems to involve my youngest chasing some older boys around with a big stick.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting to note that Mick Fealty has decided to leave Twitter after 15 years, explaining his reasons here:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/06/01/why-im-leaving-twitter-fifteen-years-after-i-first-jumped-into-an-unending-stream-of-news-and-tat/

    Never heard of him.
    Too late now!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Leon said:

    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.


    Unless New Zealand can boast exquisite thatched villages, medieval churches, grand aristocratic estates, ancient monasteries, tiny river valleys adorned with 14th century pubs, mystical stone circles, haunted castles, and UNESCO listed ruins of a 5000 year old industry which changed the world - which I tend to doubt - then this is fucking bollocks
    Yeh we don’t have any of those.
    But we do have weird-as-fuck wildlife, lakes inhabited by Māori water-monsters (taniwha) and fucking hobbits.

    And better wine, too.
    Pity the moas are extinct. Now that would have been something. But the tuatara ...
This discussion has been closed.