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Punters think there will be a Johnson VONC but he’ll win it – politicalbetting.com

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  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    It took you EIGHT HOURS to get there.

    You could be accompanying Leon on an accordion in Tbilisi in that time.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    NEW: The Queen has experienced some discomfort today & has concluded with “great reluctance” that she will not attend tomorrow’s National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The Queen is said to be looking forward to participating in tonight’s Beacon lighting event

    She'll be passing by the end of the year

    Can we not fucking speculate on the imminent death of Her Maj on the literal day of her jubilee. Thanks. Traitor
    Also, the English for "die" is "die." Not fucking pass.
    yes ever heard of the film- Passed Away Hard 9
    I haven't. Christmas movie, is it?
    Sounds more like Easter.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Going back to an earlier discussion: Here's an observation on how acceptable language has changed. My two favorite American political novels are "All the King's Men" and "The Last Hurrah". (The first is more powerfully written; the second is still useful in understanding American politics. I honestly think I can predict about 75 percent of what Nancy Pelosi will do, just from reading it.)

    Both contain the "n" word, though just once in the second. Neither contain the "c" word or the "f" word so common at this site, nor even any euphemisms for them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.


    Unless New Zealand can boast exquisite thatched villages, medieval churches, grand aristocratic estates, ancient monasteries, tiny river valleys adorned with 14th century pubs, mystical stone circles, haunted castles, and UNESCO listed ruins of a 5000 year old industry which changed the world - which I tend to doubt - then this is fucking bollocks
    Yeh we don’t have any of those.
    But we do have weird-as-fuck wildlife, lakes inhabited by Māori water-monsters (taniwha) and fucking hobbits.

    And better wine, too.
    I’d love to go to NZ. I hear the landscapes are spectacular and I have major traveler friends who rave about it

    But it ain’t Cornwall. And nor is Cornwall NZ.

    The mix of history and landscape and people and seascape is what makes Cornwall special, and NZ does not have the history and people

    But of course NZ has glaciers and Alps and wonderful lakes and Cornwall has none of that. So, a fairly poor comparison
    But it has TUATARAS and KAKAPOS.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited June 2022
    MattW said:

    Interesting to note that Mick Fealty has decided to leave Twitter after 15 years, explaining his reasons here:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/06/01/why-im-leaving-twitter-fifteen-years-after-i-first-jumped-into-an-unending-stream-of-news-and-tat/

    Does anyone else use Twitter as a virtual scrapbook? - whenever i go some place with work or for pleasure I follow the twitter site - quite nostalgic to look at occasionally
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    Great update @Cookie! If it wasn’t for the fact that it was the UK, it could have been a @Leon post.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Got a new motor, John. A Deere. John Deere:


  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249

    kinabalu said:

    Watching Borgen anyway. Great to have it back but rather too much effing and blinding for my taste. Why oh why? ...

    Yes, that's the subtitles, not in the original Danish (see discussion downthread).
    Are they still making it up as they go along? I got the impression with Series 1 that they had a script conference every Monday morning and asked each other 'How on earth' (I'll spare you the effing and blinding) 'do we get out of this?'
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    TimT said:

    Got a new motor, John. A Deere. John Deere:


    COOL!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited June 2022
    TimT said:

    Got a new motor, John. A Deere. John Deere:


    You applying to be a Tory candidate at the next election?

    (But very nice, irrespective of that.)
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Carnyx said:

    TimT said:

    Got a new motor, John. A Deere. John Deere:


    You applying to be a Tory candidate at the next election?

    (But very nice, irrespective of that.)
    Not sure that the voters here would know what a Tory is.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    Also, that photo of a truly magnificent beach in NZ is notably lacking in…… anything else. Like pubs, cafes, maybe an interesting old village with a quaint church, an old Manor House with a mad new owner, some kids with a pop up lobster shack, a seafood restaurant or two, a chippy, a convenient Tesco Extra, a Roman bridge, a vulgar but cheerful boozer, I’m on about pubs again

    This is the problem I have often encountered in Australia. Where I have been many times. And i am fairly sure NZ is similar

    You find this extraordinary beach after a hike - deserted and glorious in the sun - and you think, Wow, what a brilliant place, let’s have a beer at the nearest pub and stare at the view

    And then you go on Google maps and you find there is nothing of that sort for 4,398 miles. Absolutely nothing at all

    In Cornwall the nearest pub is no more than 1.2 miles away. Anywhere

    We are incredibly lucky in Europe that we have been so densely settled and civilised for so long
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Biden to resettle refugees coming through Mexico to Rwanda, er I mean Spain:

    https://www.axios.com/2022/06/02/biden-summit-americas-spain-canada-immigration-refugees

    I don’t imagine that some of the democratic base will like that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    TimT said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimT said:

    Got a new motor, John. A Deere. John Deere:


    You applying to be a Tory candidate at the next election?

    (But very nice, irrespective of that.)
    Not sure that the voters here would know what a Tory is.
    Really? I thought it was a well-understood term in the States? Admittedly a little obsolescent.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    edited June 2022

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    It took you EIGHT HOURS to get there.

    You could be accompanying Leon on an accordion in Tbilisi in that time.
    Well I'm not sure I could. Manchester Airport hasn't done well in that respect of late.
    But even if I could - well, I'd enjoy myself, I'm sure, but I don't think Georgia would be as successful a family holiday as Cornwall. For me - for my family - I don't think anywhere in Europe would be.
    And I'm sure NZ is grand - if you offered me a free family holiday to NZ right now I'd take it gladly and enthusiastically - but it takes 24 hours and thousands and thousands of pounds to get there.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Cookie said:

    Update from Cornwall: today was the day we admitted defeat. We cannot cram everything we want to do here into a week, and aren't going to try: we'll come back next year.
    So we didn't go to Kynance Cove, instead - because, if you're middle class parents holidaying in the school holidays and love anywhere south of, ooh, Preston, one of the advantages of Cornwall is that there will inevitably be friends here at the same time - we took advantage of the presence some friends who have daughters the same age as our oldest and youngest, whom we met at Holywell Bay.
    Now I've not ticked off all of the best beaches in the world, but I have been to Miami Beach. And in almost all respects, Holywell Bay is better. Soft sand, almost devoid of seaweed, gently caresses your feet, shelving gently away below and impossibly azure sea. And the setting! Look out to sea at those little islands rising steeply out of the bay and you could be in the South Pacific. And also, you've got what you really need on a beach: tide, and a stream, which are what differentiate a proper beach from just an area of sand next to some water.
    The only respect in which Miami Beach or any of those other fancy dan beaches beat Holywell Bay - and I concede it is not a trivial one - is the water temperature. It was a perfect, cloudless day, but even so, the water didn't really get above uncomfortably cold. I am a relatively Hardy swimmer, but even so I blanched at it. There were some swimmers and surfers, mostly wetsuits, but it was not thronging. I suspect the Cornish Atlantic really takes until August to warm up to a reasonable temperature.
    Still, though, an idyllic day. Kids played happily and explored for about five hours without any signs of getting bored. As, actually, did I.

    Great update @Cookie! If it wasn’t for the fact that it was the UK, it could have been a @Leon post.
    I've heard Leon can't stand the Cornish.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    edited June 2022

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    At least we don't have to read Seamus Milne in Guardian anymore thanks to Corbyn giving him a job as press guru.

    God knows what tripe he would be spouting about Putin's Russia.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    edited June 2022
    More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.

    PS - not interested in how beautiful the women are, as I shall be accompanied by my own.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting to note that Mick Fealty has decided to leave Twitter after 15 years, explaining his reasons here:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/06/01/why-im-leaving-twitter-fifteen-years-after-i-first-jumped-into-an-unending-stream-of-news-and-tat/

    Never heard of him.
    Founder and Editor of Slugger O Toole, which he set up amongst debates about the peace process.

    Perhaps the most influential and distinguished UK-based political blog in its own community (NI). Nothing anywhere else in the UK has come close imo.

    Slugger's 20th anniversary is this Sunday. It was set up to focus on NI politics and culture, and beyond as appropriate.

    Worth a look.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    Also, that photo of a truly magnificent beach in NZ is notably lacking in…… anything else. Like pubs, cafes, maybe an interesting old village with a quaint church, an old Manor House with a mad new owner, some kids with a pop up lobster shack, a seafood restaurant or two, a chippy, a convenient Tesco Extra, a Roman bridge, a vulgar but cheerful boozer, I’m on about pubs again

    This is the problem I have often encountered in Australia. Where I have been many times. And i am fairly sure NZ is similar

    You find this extraordinary beach after a hike - deserted and glorious in the sun - and you think, Wow, what a brilliant place, let’s have a beer at the nearest pub and stare at the view

    And then you go on Google maps and you find there is nothing of that sort for 4,398 miles. Absolutely nothing at all

    In Cornwall the nearest pub is no more than 1.2 miles away. Anywhere

    We are incredibly lucky in Europe that we have been so densely settled and civilised for so long
    My beach is about 45 minutes from Auckland downtown. It’s on the other side of a range of hills populated by assorted artists, lesbian potters, maori mystics etc. It’s one of about a dozen such beaches along this stretch of coast. The Piano was filmed next door.

    No tin mining though, true.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Leon said:

    Cornwall is like a very small, overcrowded NZ.


    Unless New Zealand can boast exquisite thatched villages, medieval churches, grand aristocratic estates, ancient monasteries, tiny river valleys adorned with 14th century pubs, mystical stone circles, haunted castles, and UNESCO listed ruins of a 5000 year old industry which changed the world - which I tend to doubt - then this is fucking bollocks
    Yeh we don’t have any of those.
    But we do have weird-as-fuck wildlife, lakes inhabited by Māori water-monsters (taniwha) and fucking hobbits.

    And better wine, too.
    Cornish Camel Valley wines are very good!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286

    More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.

    Oh god, definitely ACCEPT

    The countryside is truly glorious and pretty little Ludlow is like this mini gastronomic heaven. You can have brilliant walks (with brilliant churches and castles and villages if that’s your thing) then brilliant dinners that you’ve earned

    Honestly, it’s excellent. Go
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Going back to an earlier discussion: Here's an observation on how acceptable language has changed. My two favorite American political novels are "All the King's Men" and "The Last Hurrah". (The first is more powerfully written; the second is still useful in understanding American politics. I honestly think I can predict about 75 percent of what Nancy Pelosi will do, just from reading it.)

    Both contain the "n" word, though just once in the second. Neither contain the "c" word or the "f" word so common at this site, nor even any euphemisms for them.

    Take a look at Waugh's Scoop.

    Blimey.

    I cannot believe he has not been so cancelled.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    @Leon - on the subject touched on earlier of 12 year old daughters, happy to report that mine is currently tearing around outside with her sisters and two boys she appears to jave just met playing some variant on tig (or tag, or it, depending on where you're from). She has a massive smile on her face and is looking utterly unselfconscious. She hasn't wholly left childhood behind quite yet!
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Not many American adults know what a Tory is. (A few older ones would remember that the US once had a Whig Party.)

    Which is too bad, because it ruins the joke about the chicken during the American Revolution. It was a counter-agent, so naurally the Americans nicknamed it "Chicken Cacciatore".
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.

    It's a really nice town in fantastic countryside. Go for it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    kinabalu said:

    Watching Borgen anyway. Great to have it back but rather too much effing and blinding for my taste. Why oh why? ...

    Yes, that's the subtitles, not in the original Danish (see discussion downthread).
    Are they still making it up as they go along? I got the impression with Series 1 that they had a script conference every Monday morning and asked each other 'How on earth' (I'll spare you the effing and blinding) 'do we get out of this?'
    Seems quite a strong plot line this time - I agree the original was a bit "what does a nice liberal do next?"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Anyone have a map of where all the beacons are being lit? I read something about the RICS having an "anchor chain" of beacons but couldn't find any information about where those are.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Leon said:

    More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.

    Oh god, definitely ACCEPT

    The countryside is truly glorious and pretty little Ludlow is like this mini gastronomic heaven. You can have brilliant walks (with brilliant churches and castles and villages if that’s your thing) then brilliant dinners that you’ve earned

    Honestly, it’s excellent. Go
    Thanks - appreciated. We like good food.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Leon said:

    More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.

    Oh god, definitely ACCEPT

    The countryside is truly glorious and pretty little Ludlow is like this mini gastronomic heaven. You can have brilliant walks (with brilliant churches and castles and villages if that’s your thing) then brilliant dinners that you’ve earned

    Honestly, it’s excellent. Go
    What he said. It's well worth a visit.

    If you like hill walking the Clee Hills are outstanding walking country with stunning views.

    If you like heritage, Stokesay, Ludlow Castle, Berrington Hall are all easy to get to.

    Plenty of places to eat.

    And if you just like sitting around admiring the view, there's plenty of good ones to choose.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    Also, that photo of a truly magnificent beach in NZ is notably lacking in…… anything else. Like pubs, cafes, maybe an interesting old village with a quaint church, an old Manor House with a mad new owner, some kids with a pop up lobster shack, a seafood restaurant or two, a chippy, a convenient Tesco Extra, a Roman bridge, a vulgar but cheerful boozer, I’m on about pubs again

    This is the problem I have often encountered in Australia. Where I have been many times. And i am fairly sure NZ is similar

    You find this extraordinary beach after a hike - deserted and glorious in the sun - and you think, Wow, what a brilliant place, let’s have a beer at the nearest pub and stare at the view

    And then you go on Google maps and you find there is nothing of that sort for 4,398 miles. Absolutely nothing at all

    In Cornwall the nearest pub is no more than 1.2 miles away. Anywhere

    We are incredibly lucky in Europe that we have been so densely settled and civilised for so long
    My beach is about 45 minutes from Auckland downtown. It’s on the other side of a range of hills populated by assorted artists, lesbian potters, maori mystics etc. It’s one of about a dozen such beaches along this stretch of coast. The Piano was filmed next door.

    No tin mining though, true.
    Piha? Across the Waitakere hills? Classic. When I worked in Auckland that was about the first place I went when I bought a car. One of my NZ girlfriends had a relative with a house out that way. Stunning, but remote, although I guess only 45 minutes from the city.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    It took you EIGHT HOURS to get there.

    You could be accompanying Leon on an accordion in Tbilisi in that time.
    Well I'm not sure I could. Manchester Airport hasn't done well in that respect of late.
    But even if I could - well, I'd enjoy myself, I'm sure, but I don't think Georgia would be as successful a family holiday as Cornwall. For me - for my family - I don't think anywhere in Europe would be.
    And I'm sure NZ is grand - if you offered me a free family holiday to NZ right now I'd take it gladly and enthusiastically - but it takes 24 hours and thousands and thousands of pounds to get there.
    Sure, but if 8 hours is your limit, pretty much all of Europe is in your compass.

    Cornwall is v nice (and good to see you got to Portscatho, which is where we stay) but I just think it’s a tad overrated.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OK off out to see the beacon lit on Gibbet Hill.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    Also, that photo of a truly magnificent beach in NZ is notably lacking in…… anything else. Like pubs, cafes, maybe an interesting old village with a quaint church, an old Manor House with a mad new owner, some kids with a pop up lobster shack, a seafood restaurant or two, a chippy, a convenient Tesco Extra, a Roman bridge, a vulgar but cheerful boozer, I’m on about pubs again

    This is the problem I have often encountered in Australia. Where I have been many times. And i am fairly sure NZ is similar

    You find this extraordinary beach after a hike - deserted and glorious in the sun - and you think, Wow, what a brilliant place, let’s have a beer at the nearest pub and stare at the view

    And then you go on Google maps and you find there is nothing of that sort for 4,398 miles. Absolutely nothing at all

    In Cornwall the nearest pub is no more than 1.2 miles away. Anywhere

    We are incredibly lucky in Europe that we have been so densely settled and civilised for so long
    I often feel that way about the Scottish Highlands. They are sublime, extraordinary. But while they fill me with awe, they don't fill me quite with the same joy as, say, the Lake District or the Yorkshire Dales - mainly because you're never more than an hour's walk from the pub.
    Of course, this may also be a factor of what feels like home and what doesn't - and on that basis I am quite happy to concede that Gardenwalker may be stirred to joy by NZ in exactly the way I am by my own home landscapes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    Also, that photo of a truly magnificent beach in NZ is notably lacking in…… anything else. Like pubs, cafes, maybe an interesting old village with a quaint church, an old Manor House with a mad new owner, some kids with a pop up lobster shack, a seafood restaurant or two, a chippy, a convenient Tesco Extra, a Roman bridge, a vulgar but cheerful boozer, I’m on about pubs again

    This is the problem I have often encountered in Australia. Where I have been many times. And i am fairly sure NZ is similar

    You find this extraordinary beach after a hike - deserted and glorious in the sun - and you think, Wow, what a brilliant place, let’s have a beer at the nearest pub and stare at the view

    And then you go on Google maps and you find there is nothing of that sort for 4,398 miles. Absolutely nothing at all

    In Cornwall the nearest pub is no more than 1.2 miles away. Anywhere

    We are incredibly lucky in Europe that we have been so densely settled and civilised for so long
    My beach is about 45 minutes from Auckland downtown. It’s on the other side of a range of hills populated by assorted artists, lesbian potters, maori mystics etc. It’s one of about a dozen such beaches along this stretch of coast. The Piano was filmed next door.

    No tin mining though, true.
    Piha? Across the Waitakere hills? Classic. When I worked in Auckland that was about the first place I went when I bought a car. One of my NZ girlfriends had a relative with a house out that way. Stunning, but remote, although I guess only 45 minutes from the city.
    Mine is Bethell’s; Piha is next door.

    The Waitakeres are an exhilarating, mystical, and sometimes spooky place to which I hope to semi-retire at some stage.

    Thankfully property is not too expensive because the terrain is too hilly and the climate a bit wet for global plutes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    edited June 2022
    Cookie said:

    @Leon - on the subject touched on earlier of 12 year old daughters, happy to report that mine is currently tearing around outside with her sisters and two boys she appears to jave just met playing some variant on tig (or tag, or it, depending on where you're from). She has a massive smile on her face and is looking utterly unselfconscious. She hasn't wholly left childhood behind quite yet!

    Ah, enjoy, Mine are in mid teens and moody. But I love’ em and we still have a lot of fun, it’s just different now (and in some ways better, as I said - they have learned, I hope, that I can be modestly amusing even if I disappear a fair amount)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    More prosaically than other travellers, I've been asked if I'd like to go to Ludlow for a few days. I don't know it. Is that an invitation I should a) accept, or b) decline? Thanks.

    PS - not interested in how beautiful the women are, as I shall be accompanied by my own.

    Jammy sod. Go.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Saw this earlier - it seems to think economic actions were supposed to immediately bring Russia to its knees and end the war to boot, which seems improbable as a prediction.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Not many American adults know what a Tory is. (A few older ones would remember that the US once had a Whig Party.)

    Which is too bad, because it ruins the joke about the chicken during the American Revolution. It was a counter-agent, so naurally the Americans nicknamed it "Chicken Cacciatore".

    Saw this at a local history museum upstate, which amused me enough to take a photo.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Does he have any support among MPs do we know? As he seems to come up a lot but I can never remember a thing about him or why he would be the answer to their problems.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    I'm far from sure that's accurate, and seems to be an example of reverse-justification - starting with the desired ends - "we must do a deal!" and trying to justify it. And in the process makes himself an appeaser of fascism.

    For an example of how sanctions are working in the medium and long term, see: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/06/everything-is-gone-russian-business-hit-hard-by-tech-sanctions/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1532312890451144704

    Johnson has clearly never put his son to bed in his life

    And it is the easiest, most rewarding thing in the whole of parenthood.

    You know the worst bit? Realising that you are never again going to pick them up off the sofa and carry them up to bed *without waking them.*
    No, not for me. Tho that is a sweet moment: putting them to bed

    For me, the terrible moment comes somewhere around 10-12 - and is in fact a sequence of moments - when they lose that perfect innocent childish unselfawareness, and the adult begins to emerge. They look at a toy, or a doll, or their favourite book - and they thrust it away. They do not need help to get to sleep. The door is shut. You hear the first troubled sigh of teenagerdom, which lies just ahead

    I found it piercing, and quite saddening, but unavoidable of course, and something comes along to replace it. Sort of
    What about the moment when they realize you're not superman you're just a bloke and quite a dodgy one too?

    Or hasn't that happened yet?
    For me it was the other way around. I’m serious. A deep period of mistrust gave way to “actually dad’s quite fun, if a bit unreliable”

    That was a GOOD moment
    I am at that moment that you refer to upthread - the start of teenagerdom - with my eldest. It is painful, and repeatedly saddening. The world's weight is on her shoulders. She is no longer carefree, nor does she want to be.
    And then, as today, I look at her in a moment of joy, and cry actual tears of pride and awe. Quite apart from all of her more important qualities, she is just so astonishingly beautiful.
    If only she would realise it, at least a bit.
    Yes, it’s an unspoken sadness of parenting

    You fall in love with this person. Your child. And then they change. Profoundly. More than any spouse might change

    The experience is not unlike grief, to my mind. And it seems near universal if you dig deep enough

    And then they often move away…and seem to forget all about you. This is of course what you want to a certain extent

    But it’s hard for the parent

    I’m not at the moving away stage yet but I can see the sadness in friends to whom it has already happened

    I don't know what will happen with my daughter (now three) in her teenage years but all the horror stories I heard about babies, the terrible-twos and a threenager have turned out not to be true.

    I also see many children who continue to have close relationships with their parents into adulthood, although that of course changes in nature, so we will roll with the punches and hope to come out ok the other side.
    I'm glad to hear that experience, my niece has gone from terrible two directly into threenager. She's still great fun and very cute, but I can't imagine it with Jen, she's so peaceful, barely cries, just very chill. I await my punishment for the next 5 years now!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Off topic, but I was astounded to learn that in 2017 only one former Scottish Lab MP stood again after having lost their seats previously. Given how many there were, and how many LDs refought 2017, that was a surprise.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    I'm far from sure that's accurate, and seems to be an example of reverse-justification - starting with the desired ends - "we must do a deal!" and trying to justify it. And in the process makes himself an appeaser of fascism.

    For an example of how sanctions are working in the medium and long term, see: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/06/everything-is-gone-russian-business-hit-hard-by-tech-sanctions/
    Thanks - will take a look - I hope you're right!
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    @Leon - on the subject touched on earlier of 12 year old daughters, happy to report that mine is currently tearing around outside with her sisters and two boys she appears to jave just met playing some variant on tig (or tag, or it, depending on where you're from). She has a massive smile on her face and is looking utterly unselfconscious. She hasn't wholly left childhood behind quite yet!

    Ah, enjoy, Mine are in mid teens and moody. But I love’ em and we still have a lot of fun, it’s just different now (and in some ways better, as I said - they have learned, I hope, that I can be modestly amusing even if I disappear a fair amount)
    "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Just turned on the BBC to see a bloke who served on HMY Britannia being asked "when was the last time you met the Queen?"

    "Well, just a few days before she was decommissioned - err, the yacht was decommissioned"...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    Going back to an earlier discussion: Here's an observation on how acceptable language has changed. My two favorite American political novels are "All the King's Men" and "The Last Hurrah". (The first is more powerfully written; the second is still useful in understanding American politics. I honestly think I can predict about 75 percent of what Nancy Pelosi will do, just from reading it.)

    Both contain the "n" word, though just once in the second. Neither contain the "c" word or the "f" word so common at this site, nor even any euphemisms for them.

    Yes, I think the "n" word has become so synonymous with vicious racism that it's almost like using a Nazi insult for Jews, unless used ironically by black people. But generally language has coarsened - maybe a subtle effect of social media, as you're less likely to move only in "polite" circles.

    I loved All the King's Men (the film isn't bad either - have you seen it?). Don't know The Last Hurrah - if you recommend it I might try it.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    rottenburough said:
    Take a look at Waugh's Scoop.

    Blimey.

    I cannot believe he has not been so cancelled.
    Good example. A prudent teacher wouldn't assign it in an American high school class, nor even a college class -- though it is a wonderful novel.

    (It may have given me a distorted picture of journalism in the UK.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited June 2022

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar. He's going out of his way imo to see half-empty glasses.

    What do you think?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    Incidentally, for anyone into civil engineering, an animation on how HS2's Colne Viaduct is being built:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR6Ps_SfRZY
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    rottenburough said:

    Take a look at Waugh's Scoop.

    Blimey.

    I cannot believe he has not been so cancelled.
    Good example. A prudent teacher wouldn't assign it in an American high school class, nor even a college class -- though it is a wonderful novel.

    (It may have given me a distorted picture of journalism in the UK.)

    Through the plashy fen passes the questing vole ...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    rottenburough said:

    Take a look at Waugh's Scoop.

    Blimey.

    I cannot believe he has not been so cancelled.
    Good example. A prudent teacher wouldn't assign it in an American high school class, nor even a college class -- though it is a wonderful novel.

    (It may have given me a distorted picture of journalism in the UK.)
    MattW said:

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar.
    Unsurprising.
    He’s one of those consistently wrong people, I believe he was pro-Brexit too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    edited June 2022

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    It took you EIGHT HOURS to get there.

    You could be accompanying Leon on an accordion in Tbilisi in that time.
    Well I'm not sure I could. Manchester Airport hasn't done well in that respect of late.
    But even if I could - well, I'd enjoy myself, I'm sure, but I don't think Georgia would be as successful a family holiday as Cornwall. For me - for my family - I don't think anywhere in Europe would be.
    And I'm sure NZ is grand - if you offered me a free family holiday to NZ right now I'd take it gladly and enthusiastically - but it takes 24 hours and thousands and thousands of pounds to get there.
    Sure, but if 8 hours is your limit, pretty much all of Europe is in your compass.

    Cornwall is v nice (and good to see you got to Portscatho, which is where we stay) but I just think it’s a tad overrated.
    Speaking as a Cornishman, I tend to agree. I’m not sure why Brits like Cookie rave QUITE so much about Cornwall as a holiday destination. The weather is just too unreliable, and it is too busy in school hols

    Cornwall is actually, to my mind, better as a place to live than to holiday

    Safe, sometimes beautiful, mild, low crime, friendly, really nice food now, nice people, lots of culture and history, great pubs, pretty towns and villages, sufficiently far from London that it has a vivid life of its own, and unexpectedly varied - the difference between a north coast village like Zennor and a south coast valley like the Helford - a couple of dozen miles away - is astonishing

    But if I had just two weeks precious summer holiday with my family, I would not go to often-rainy Cornwall
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    NickPalmer - I would definitely recommend "The Last Hurrah" -- but then I am a poltical junkie. The movie isn't bad, either. (I did, just recently, see "All the King's Men" and thought it was an interesting, but flawed, adaption of the novel.)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    London is buzzing tonight. Just left a party at Hackney Wick. London in June at the Jubilee weekend is a special place to be. Nowhere quite like it. We’re lucky to have London.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited June 2022

    rottenburough said:

    Take a look at Waugh's Scoop.

    Blimey.

    I cannot believe he has not been so cancelled.
    Good example. A prudent teacher wouldn't assign it in an American high school class, nor even a college class -- though it is a wonderful novel.

    (It may have given me a distorted picture of journalism in the UK.)




    Read it in the mid 70s. Never thought I'd go to Djibouti when I read it (for some reason I assumed that the fictional nation of Ishmaelia was Djibouti), but less then 8 years later I was stepping off a plane there.

    I thought it was a great read, but frankly, I cannot remember much about it other than the journalists made up their war reporting from the hotel bar.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is it true that Anglo-Saxons are the least attractive ethnic group?

    Absolutely not.

    Pope Gregory the Great famously said, of the Anglo Saxon slaves in a Rome market, when told they were “Angles” - “not Angles, but angels!” - because they were so blonde and well built and beautiful. It is supposedly one reason he sent Saint Augustine to convert the British Isles

    Sadly the Brits have got fat, like so many other nationalities
    Beauty is basically health. Multi-generational good nutrition (and current good nutrition) leads to well developed bone structure, good teeth, healthy hair, brows and lashes. Good skin.

    Then you have racial characteristics, which make some forms of beauty starkly different. For example, the aboriginal people of Australia don't typically conform to Western ideals of beauty, but it's a function of their adaptation to living in Australia.

    In Britain we're a very mixed bag racially (even the 'indigenous' white population is a mixture of German, French, Celtic etc.), which is cool, but there's an issue with the national diet being lacking that does affect teeth imo. It's the same in most Western countries, but here it's been going on for longer.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Jonathan said:

    London is buzzing tonight. Just left a party at Hackney Wick. London in June at the Jubilee weekend is a special place to be. Nowhere quite like it. We’re lucky to have London.

    I had no idea we had such flagrant hipsters on this board.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    MattW said:

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar. He's going out of his way imo to see half-empty glasses.

    What do you think?
    It is the usual appeaser nonsense. The Rouble is a potemkin currency right now. It has kept its value due to oil prices and surging central bank interest rates. Both those things are throttling the non-hydrocarbon economy. Russia cannot tolerate for 12 months plus.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022
    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433

    Not many American adults know what a Tory is. (A few older ones would remember that the US once had a Whig Party.)

    Which is too bad, because it ruins the joke about the chicken during the American Revolution. It was a counter-agent, so naurally the Americans nicknamed it "Chicken Cacciatore".

    Blessing in disguise.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is it true that Anglo-Saxons are the least attractive ethnic group?

    Absolutely not.

    Pope Gregory the Great famously said, of the Anglo Saxon slaves in a Rome market, when told they were “Angles” - “not Angles, but angels!” - because they were so blonde and well built and beautiful. It is supposedly one reason he sent Saint Augustine to convert the British Isles

    Sadly the Brits have got fat, like so many other nationalities
    Beauty is basically health. Multi-generational good nutrition (and current good nutrition) leads to well developed bone structure, good teeth, healthy hair, brows and lashes. Good skin.

    Then you have racial characteristics, which make some forms of beauty starkly different. For example, the aboriginal people of Australia don't typically conform to Western ideals of beauty, but it's a function of their adaptation to living in Australia.

    In Britain we're a very mixed bag racially (even the 'indigenous' white population is a mixture of German, French, Celtic etc.), which is cool, but there's an issue with the national diet being lacking that does affect teeth imo. It's the same in most Western countries, but here it's been going on for longer.
    Yes. The fact that the industrial revolution started in Britain has brought many benefits, it gave us the biggest empire in history and made us the richest country on earth for more than a century, and it is the reason the world speaks English now (which is a huge convenience we take for granted)

    But it has also had baleful consequences for us. One is the ruination of so many British landscapes, another is bad British food (thankfully now being fixed), related to that is bad British health, esp teeth
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    MattW said:

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar. He's going out of his way imo to see half-empty glasses.

    What do you think?
    There is a noticeable 'a deal will be done' mindset going on here.
    It is a bit like Brexit. Everyone keeps saying 'a deal will be done', etc etc.
    I am sceptical.
    Bit, if you look at Putin's regime, its fucked. Its a bunch of old men. There's no succession planning. He is quite happy to just grind through tens of thousands of men, indefinetly. Because ultimately that is what dictators do.
    At present it is impoverished military contractors, but they don't go on indefinetly, and they will need to move on to conscripts.
    If you look at Putins rule, things go bad when there are monumental errors, like the sinking of the Kursk.
    The war in Ukraine will become one such error.
    ... eventually people in Russia won't go along with it.
    Any 'deal' with Russia ultimately shores up his regime and rule; it isn't a good idea.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited June 2022
    ..
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Of course the other chunk of migration that needs to be addressed is family migration. After slowing under May it is ramping up again, especially arranged marriages from the subcontinent. We should limit married visas to the same basis as unmarried spouse visas. You have to have a two year relationship first. That stops it being exploited by webs of family marriage planning (often cousin marriage) to get people over here.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    TimT said:

    Aslan said:

    MattW said:

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar. He's going out of his way imo to see half-empty glasses.

    What do you think?
    It is the usual appeaser nonsense. The Rouble is a potemkin currency right now. It has kept its value due to oil prices and surging central bank interest rates. Both those things are throttling the non-hydrocarbon economy. Russia cannot tolerate for 12 months plus.
    It is the typical, disastrously-wrong realpolitik view of the world - that national interests are all that matter. And only those of the major players, even. It misses the point entirely that there is a Ukraine, and a Ukraine that is showing a lot of agency. Or that, without liberal democracy, the global economy - let alone the domestic economies of Western democracies - would not be anywhere near as strong and hence that abstract ideal might be something worth fighting for - indeed, might be the West's duty bound contribution to the fight - at the expense of some short- to medium-term economic pain.
    Hear, hear.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Washington Post columnist Michael Gerson wrote a fine tribute to the lady being celebrated today:
    My fellow citizens of a more pragmatic bent should be impressed by 70 years of doing a hard thing well. Elizabeth has shown the unfailing dignity, stable judgment and spiritual gravity that befit the Queen of England and Defender of the Faith. Her reign has been an admirable example of “a long obedience in the same direction.” That is worth at least one huzzah.
    . . .
    The Germans are wonderful people and staunch allies. But hearing a band strike up “Deutschland Über Alles” caused the hair to rise on the back of my neck. In contrast, hearing “God Save the Queen” during a state visit brought stirrings of ancient loyalty and the feeling of arriving home.
    (Links omitted.)
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/02/queen-elizabeth-jubilee-american-british-historical-connection/

    Gerson is an evangelical, and a former speechwriter for George W. Bush.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    We’re also getting a significant influx from Hong Kong because Xi

    100,000 in the last year

    They are more than welcome. I can’t think of better immigrants than smart, non-criminal, freedom loving, hardworking Hong Kongers. I hope a million move here
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
    No, we didn't.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    NickPalmer - I would definitely recommend "The Last Hurrah" -- but then I am a poltical junkie. The movie isn't bad, either. (I did, just recently, see "All the King's Men" and thought it was an interesting, but flawed, adaption of the novel.)

    OK, I've ordered it - £4.15 from Abe Books (vs £9 from Amazon). Agree about the movie (are we talking about the 1949 one? I see there's been a remake with Sean Penn). But it's perhaps interesting that when I first saw it I was very young (12?) and thought the populist anti-hero modelled on Huey Long was immensely thrilling as he bellowed to his army of "hicks" and rather overlooked his flaws - maybe some Trump fans feel the same sort of visceral appeal.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    darkage said:

    MattW said:

    Depressing view from Larry Elliott in the Guardian:

    "Russia is winning the economic war"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

    Having read it, his analysis seems quite peculiar. He's going out of his way imo to see half-empty glasses.

    What do you think?
    There is a noticeable 'a deal will be done' mindset going on here.
    It is a bit like Brexit. Everyone keeps saying 'a deal will be done', etc etc.
    I am sceptical.
    Bit, if you look at Putin's regime, its fucked. Its a bunch of old men. There's no succession planning. He is quite happy to just grind through tens of thousands of men, indefinetly. Because ultimately that is what dictators do.
    At present it is impoverished military contractors, but they don't go on indefinetly, and they will need to move on to conscripts.
    If you look at Putins rule, things go bad when there are monumental errors, like the sinking of the Kursk.
    The war in Ukraine will become one such error.
    ... eventually people in Russia won't go along with it.
    Any 'deal' with Russia ultimately shores up his regime and rule; it isn't a good idea.
    We need to hang in there and be patient. His regime is buggered. But I’m starting to see more and more of the “Russia is winning” crap. And more of the 19th century nonsense that believes every war is a great power proxy war.

    How can a country win when it is cut off economically, politically and culturally from the rest of the world? It can’t - see Venezuela, Iran, N Korea, for that matter see a few countries that did it to themselves without the need for sanctions, like Argentina or Albania. Look even at the trade damage Britain has done to itself from a modest enough realignment of arrangements since Brexit. Doesn’t mean Russia won’t continue to be an irritation, but the goal must be to contain and suppress its destructive power for years, or decades, until someone there sees fit to enter the post-imperial world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    @Jim_Miller - could you please be so kind as to not use the blockquote tag for text excerpts from elsewhere? I'm sure you've noticed in this thread that it breaks the quote function when people reply.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
    Northern Portugal - according to the website “Weatherspark” has a climate “most similar to” the North Island of NZ…
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022
    Applicant said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
    No, we didn't.
    We did. So they have.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited June 2022
    .

    Applicant said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
    No, we didn't.
    We did. So they have.
    We didn't and they mostly haven't.

    Unless "we" means a few bitter Remainers who talked so much bollocks that they were eventually believed by a few of their "friends".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Applicant said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
    No, we didn't.
    We did. So they have.
    I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Looks like I might have a chance to ask questions to Professor Luke O'Neill this weekend - one of the top talking heads about Covid in Ireland.

    Anyone have any particularly pressing questions they think I should ask?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    NickPalmer - The 1949 film, which happened to be on an old movie sub-channel (Movies!) that I occasionally watch.

    If you want a less dramatic discussion of Huey Long, You might want to look at the Louisiana chapter of V. O. Key's classic, "Southern Politics in State and Nation".
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Aslan said:

    Of course the other chunk of migration that needs to be addressed is family migration. After slowing under May it is ramping up again, especially arranged marriages from the subcontinent. We should limit married visas to the same basis as unmarried spouse visas. You have to have a two year relationship first. That stops it being exploited by webs of family marriage planning (often cousin marriage) to get people over here.

    Banning consanguineous marriages would be a good start.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Any plan on renewing appeal with ‘Waitrose Woman’ voters that doesn’t start with “Of course, Johnson has to go” is worthless. Think you can turn round your party’s appeal with voters who hate your leader? Jez and Ed’s advisors would like a word once they’ve finished laughing.
    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1532441427149479936
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Applicant - Will do. I had not noticed that. Remind me, if I forget.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Applicant said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
    No, we didn't.
    We did. So they have.
    I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
    I think you are being woefully naive here.

    Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”.
    Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.

    Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
    Yes, the challenge is guaranteed warm and sunny but not hot. Generally requires sea breezes or altitude, but with culture too - which rules out some obvious islandy choices.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
    Yes, the challenge is guaranteed warm and sunny but not hot. Generally requires sea breezes or altitude, but with culture too - which rules out some obvious islandy choices.
    The cinqueterra?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Here’s my “home” beach.
    No bugger on it, comme d’habitude.


    Very nice. But also inconveniently far from Manchester, which is a factor when choosing a holiday.
    Even in peak season, Cornwall really isn't crowded. Look at that picture I posted. Now that was when we first got there, and others arrived, but it never came close to crowded.
    Granted, some beaches - Polzeath, say - are always busy. But most aren't.
    Not as quiet as NZ, of course. But at least few other people on the beach are part of the fun. Friends to make, and so forth.
    It took you EIGHT HOURS to get there.

    You could be accompanying Leon on an accordion in Tbilisi in that time.
    Well I'm not sure I could. Manchester Airport hasn't done well in that respect of late.
    But even if I could - well, I'd enjoy myself, I'm sure, but I don't think Georgia would be as successful a family holiday as Cornwall. For me - for my family - I don't think anywhere in Europe would be.
    And I'm sure NZ is grand - if you offered me a free family holiday to NZ right now I'd take it gladly and enthusiastically - but it takes 24 hours and thousands and thousands of pounds to get there.
    Sure, but if 8 hours is your limit, pretty much all of Europe is in your compass.

    Cornwall is v nice (and good to see you got to Portscatho, which is where we stay) but I just think it’s a tad overrated.
    Speaking as a Cornishman, I tend to agree. I’m not sure why Brits like Cookie rave QUITE so much about Cornwall as a holiday destination. The weather is just too unreliable, and it is too busy in school hols

    Cornwall is actually, to my mind, better as a place to live than to holiday

    Safe, sometimes beautiful, mild, low crime, friendly, really nice food now, nice people, lots of culture and history, great pubs, pretty towns and villages, sufficiently far from London that it has a vivid life of its own, and unexpectedly varied - the difference between a north coast village like Zennor and a south coast valley like the Helford - a couple of dozen miles away - is astonishing

    But if I had just two weeks precious summer holiday with my family, I would not go to often-rainy Cornwall
    Well I love the place because it's where we come on holiday - or have done since we were a family of five. That tends to make you feel warmly towards a place.
    But emotion aside, it's a balancing act, same as anything else. Take into account how you feel about a place, but also cost, things to do, weather, stress involved, all sorts of other things. And abroad in the school holidays is expensive, and abroad with a young family is stressful.
    Weather ranks relatively low for us. Neither wife nor oldest daughter do at all well in the heat. Nor me, to be honest. And we're from Manchester, we can deal with rain. Take weather out of the equation and it's hard for anywhere else to compete.
    To me, Cornwall seems the perfect family holiday destination, though has never ranked particularly high on my list of places to live. It's a long way from anywhere of any size. Possibly this merely reflects my own life: I've always lived close to big cities so that's just how I see life working.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
    Yes, the challenge is guaranteed warm and sunny but not hot. Generally requires sea breezes or altitude, but with culture too - which rules out some obvious islandy choices.
    Look at Epirus, where i have just been. You’ve got sea, mountains, and TONS of culture. Also beautiful beaches and good food. Reliable sunny weather but cooled by the Med. Avoid Parga which is really really pretty but super touristy. Or if you go expect tourists everywhere

    You can fly direct to Preveza (really nice) from the UK, and hire a car there
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
    Yes, the challenge is guaranteed warm and sunny but not hot. Generally requires sea breezes or altitude, but with culture too - which rules out some obvious islandy choices.
    The cinqueterra?
    Absurd. Overrun with tourists
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799

    Applicant said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    I have just joined the party so I can vote for the next leader. (I also voted in the last Labour election). I will be voting for whoever clamps down on low skill migrants. Theresa May did a great job on non-EU migration but they are opening up the floodgates again to replace lost EU migration. They need to seriously up the earnings thresholds for both work and family.
    Obviously I think you are wrong, dead wrong about immigration.

    But it is indeed bat-shit that flower arrangers et al are now allowed in under our “new improved” immigration measures.

    I’m willing to bet anyone that there is no quantifiable difference in skill between our former European influx, and the new crowd who tend to come from Nigeria, the Philippines, and the Indian sub-continent.
    I think that isn't quite true, because the flower arrangers need to earn 26k a year. That's way too low, but it is still a long way above Romanian beggars and Bulgarian strawberry pickers.
    I don’t think that’s the right comparison though. Agricultural workers, and beggars, were not representative migrants.

    In practice, a lot of EU migrants were university graduates from places like Italy, Spain etc who couldn’t get a job in their home countries.

    They then picked up casual jobs - coffee shop or care work - but worked up the ladder from there with a mixture of hard work and smarts.

    But we told them to fuck off, so that’s that.
    No, we didn't.
    We did. So they have.
    I missed the part of the Brexit legislation about telling EU nationals to fuck off. There were a few reported incidents of abuse, and at least one murder that subsequently proved not to be about Brexit, but I really don’t think we told people to fuck off.
    I think you are being woefully naive here.

    Brexit took place in a cantankerous spirit of narrow-mindedness which started with Farage’s posters and culminated in tabloid campaigns against the judiciary. Hitherto serious politicos made comments about “starving Ireland” or “going to war with Spain”.
    Jeremy Hunt likened the EU to a Soviet gulag.

    Perhaps there is some polling on how EU, and indeed even non-EU migrants experienced the ensuing culture war.
    It wasn't just one sided though. I seem to remember the Taoiseach making some comments about cutting the UK off from any flights.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The best places for summer holidays with children are reliably sunny and warm, but rarely too hot, with plenty to do and reasonably affordable, with some scenic variety and seasonal events to go to.

    We almost never go to anywhere that ticks those boxes though we are trying Corsica this year. Usually we spend our holidays in our place in the Maconnais which is unreliably sunny, often too hot and occasionally too wet, with scenic variety but few seasonal events and nothing much for children. And, as discovered this evening, a hornet’s nest in the garden.

    Corsica can be insanely expensive tho. And the locals are outrageously rude

    I’m trying to think of somewhere that ticks your boxes. I’d say northern mainland Greece or northwestern Turkey

    Or perhaps northern Portugal?
    Yes, the challenge is guaranteed warm and sunny but not hot. Generally requires sea breezes or altitude, but with culture too - which rules out some obvious islandy choices.
    The cinqueterra?
    Absurd. Overrun with tourists
    Adriatic, then. Split, etc.
This discussion has been closed.