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Could more Tory MP defections be in the pipeline? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I suggest that the next time a journalist asks such a question, the respondent ask them to drop their pants just to establish a basis for the conversation. There was a great vid on Youtube a few years back where a trans woman asked the (female) interviewer the same sort of questions that she normally got asked, but altered slightly - "Do you have a vagina? Can I see it? Are your boobs real? Can I touch them? When did you have your first period? What's it like having sex?" etc... The interviewer sad they were the most intrusive, rude and upsetting questions she had ever been asked....
    Link, or it didn't happen, and does it really work anyway? extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, commonplace ones don't, and what is this bloke doing on telly anyway if he doesn't like that sort of question?
    You cannot search YT yourself?

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871
    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    More that you are missing the point that aside from the hyper partisan and the political zealots nobody else cares.

    Its a fascinating bit of political bubble projection that people may be made poorer and may be fed up with the government's massive failings but can't vote Labour because of something one of them said about what a woman us.

    Politics was much more fun when the grown ups were on both sides. Could have genuine policy debates. Now its more like having to explain to the other side very excited by lady cocks that their issue is very small and the voters are far away.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    That clip's worth a watch. Nandy is great: clear answers, and rather witty: "I can't believe how many times the pair of us have said the word 'penis' on Breakfast TV - I'd like to apologise to all the listeners who are probably choking on their breakfast...."

    And for those who say "why is Labour talking about this?", it is of course Ferrari who raised (sic) it.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    If Labour Shadow Ministers aren't able to answer a "pointless question" how confident can we be they'll be able to answer more challenging questions, let alone govern?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    Conhome has Boris at the bottom of the cabinet ratings on -15

    Just when will his mps come to their senses

    I wonder what's brought this on. It can't be PartyGate - most Tories think that's all part of Boris's charm. The CoL largesse?
    I expect it is the reaction on the doorsteps which has to be toxic
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529

    Is it me or is the daily MOD brief on Ukraine becoming lost in the realms of wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1531143716840284161?s=20&t=FIwr0IRFqeu7iJ3RTVZDBQ

    It starts with:
    "Russia has likely suffered devastating losses amongst its mid and junior ranking officers..."

    Whereas all the new outlets are indicating Russian progress, sadly, e.g. the BBC's "Heavy fighting as Russia advances into key eastern city".

    We're heading into asthmatic ant and moving drinks cabinets six inches forward territory:

    https://twitter.com/mr_gh0stly/status/1529099871826894848

    Meanwhile the balance is slowly shifting in the rest of Ukraine.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    The "Imperial" measurement bullshit is a gift...

    “Doing things that take us back, rather than forward”, is pretty much the gov’t motto.
    https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/status/1531194476126928896

    Also

    remember - after the return of imperial measurements, the number of empires that Britain has will be zero (0)

    hahaha, the guy defending the imperial system on the radio because it is “simpler” got the calculation wrong
    https://twitter.com/katie_martin_fx/status/1531176465810718728
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    JACK_W said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    If Labour Shadow Ministers aren't able to answer a "pointless question" how confident can we be they'll be able to answer more challenging questions, let alone govern?
    Did you see how well she answered it? Top marks for Nandy.
  • Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    More that you are missing the point that aside from the hyper partisan and the political zealots nobody else cares.

    Its a fascinating bit of political bubble projection that people may be made poorer and may be fed up with the government's massive failings but can't vote Labour because of something one of them said about what a woman us.

    Politics was much more fun when the grown ups were on both sides. Could have genuine policy debates. Now its more like having to explain to the other side very excited by lady cocks that their issue is very small and the voters are far away.
    I was watching the aftermath of the 1992 election the other day, the debate from Blair, Livingstone (!), the Tory bloke (can't remember, Brian Gould?) and Shirley Williams. They actually talked about policies and ideas.

    All quite dull really, can we go back to that?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,422
    I wish Marf was still doing cartoons for PB.
  • Quite honestly if Labour don't run on forward not back I will be shocked.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently...."
  • Farooq said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    You do get to judge people by whom they have in their team, though.
    Look at the idiots Boris has got in his inner circle. Who else is to blame if not him?
    Ed M chose a terrible team of advisers. He seems to have learned from that error, Johnson has not.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited May 2022
    JACK_W said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    If Labour Shadow Ministers aren't able to answer a "pointless question" how confident can we be they'll be able to answer more challenging questions, let alone govern?
    Did you watch a different clip to me? She answered it.

    Johnson never answers anything, he's a moron
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    Mornin! Back from my little break away. On topic, get rid of Boris and the next defection will be Rosie Duffield to Conservatives.
    Istr when the tories were leading a few months ago the Mail were saying a 'few' labour were planning to go Tory. Nahhhhhhh, but Rosie will if the circs are there, the first trans debate/culture wars crosser
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    edited May 2022

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    That clip's worth a watch. Nandy is great: clear answers, and rather witty: "I can't believe how many times the pair of us have said the word 'penis' on Breakfast TV - I'd like to apologise to all the listeners who are probably choking on their breakfast...."

    And for those who say "why is Labour talking about this?", it is of course Ferrari who raised (sic) it.
    Jolly good job she didn't "...say choking on their breakfast sausage" which is what I no doubt would have accidentally said.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,735

    Good morning

    Nick makes a good argument and I could see some defections by the conference season if the conservative party has not come to its senses and removed Boris

    I would like to take this opportunity of saying that I am not a monarchist, notwithstanding my respect for the queen, and will not be attending any street parties or even watching much of the coverage

    However, I do worry we are turning into a society that is joyless and where some want to denigrate those who are looking forward to the celebrations, which frankly is just acting as killjoys for something that shouldn't really bother anyone

    We all need to be more tolerant and understanding to each other

    Good morning! On your latter points I feel there is a basic division which causes the problems. There are two groups:
    Those who will celebrate / not celebrate for their own reasons
    Those who will or won't celebrate for political reasons because it winds up the other lot

    Frankly I find the spectacle of the monarchy to be amazing and preposterous in equal measure. The Ste Opening of Parliament was both the kind of pageant that we are experts at and an absurd spectacle in equal measure. And the Jubilee isn't much better.

    The problem is that there are people who want to drape themselves in the Union flag to stick it up socialists / nationalists, and those repulsed by it all precisely because of the kind of people who are draped in the flag.

    The solution is to steal back flags and symbols from the idiots. Blair got this right with the whole "Cool Britannia" thing (until we all got bored) and the Saltire up here is a national pride thing not a nat identity thing. So it can be done.
    I will be attending a couple of local street parties over the Jubilee weekend, including one on our street. I'm not sure that in the real world they are terribly divisive, where we live there are probably not many ardent royalists but attendees will have a range of views from those like me who support a constitutional monarchy to convinced republicans. We will all have a good time because we live in a nice friendly neighbourhood full of lovely people and the events are more about celebrating our community and having a good time than anything royalist or patriotic.
    Well, exactly. In Godalming, there will be a street party and the council have decorated the High Street with all the flags of the Commonwealth, which I think is a nice idea. This has triggered a culture war on Facebook (literally hundreds of posts in 24 hours), with zealous monarchists demanding 100% Union Jacks, and zealous anti-imperialists denouncing Union Jacks. Supporters of the council in just celebrating the UK AND the Commonwealth as part of the Jubilee are murmuring wistfully that this should be an occasion for us all to get together, no?
    Sounds unexpectedly heated for Godalming! You could point out to the union flag shaggers that they also have all the commonwealth flags up in Central London (I cycled past them all today on my way in) so it almost certainly aligns with HMQ's own preference.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
    I am amazed that the airframes have not exceeded their mandated life. Then again, the Americans are still flying B52s that are older than I am :D
  • Mornin! Back from my little break away. On topic, get rid of Boris and the next defection will be Rosie Duffield to Conservatives.
    Istr when the tories were lwafing a few months ago the Mail were saying a 'few' labour were planning to go Tory. Nahhhhhhh, but Rosie will if the circs are there, the first trans debate/culture wars crosser

    Rosie will not be going anywhere, the new policy was designed to keep her.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    Pulpstar said:

    More rivers flowing generally northward - Weser, Elbe, Daugeva...

    I suppose 'northward' depends on how tight the northerly angle is.

    But pretty much any significant length of north coast will have rivers flowing into it from the south.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
    Quite right too.

    The heritage of our armed forces is an important part of their overall effectiveness. Try telling the Royal Navy to set a match to HMS Victory.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    "In the area of animal welfare, which is my main focus these days, his government has been better than most so far."

    Like favoring dogs over people at Kabul airport? At tax-payer' expense?

    I would love to be corrected here.
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    JACK_W said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    If Labour Shadow Ministers aren't able to answer a "pointless question" how confident can we be they'll be able to answer more challenging questions, let alone govern?
    TBF, some questions do not have sensible answers so you have no chance if asked one
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    More that you are missing the point that aside from the hyper partisan and the political zealots nobody else cares.

    Its a fascinating bit of political bubble projection that people may be made poorer and may be fed up with the government's massive failings but can't vote Labour because of something one of them said about what a woman us.

    Politics was much more fun when the grown ups were on both sides. Could have genuine policy debates. Now its more like having to explain to the other side very excited by lady cocks that their issue is very small and the voters are far away.
    I was watching the aftermath of the 1992 election the other day, the debate from Blair, Livingstone (!), the Tory bloke (can't remember, Brian Gould?) and Shirley Williams. They actually talked about policies and ideas.

    All quite dull really, can we go back to that?
    Even as recently as the 2010 parliament we could have debate on issues. There was internal debate / rows inside the coalition (and the two parties internally) which led to some quite good things coming out amongst the bloody awful. And Ed Milliband was good at probing those gaps and pushing things along. Remember that his analysis of the "squeezed middle" still drives Tory policy today.

    What great bits of insight did we get from either the Corbynite cult or the Boris circus?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Mornin! Back from my little break away. On topic, get rid of Boris and the next defection will be Rosie Duffield to Conservatives.
    Istr when the tories were lwafing a few months ago the Mail were saying a 'few' labour were planning to go Tory. Nahhhhhhh, but Rosie will if the circs are there, the first trans debate/culture wars crosser

    Rosie will not be going anywhere, the new policy was designed to keep her.
    The batshit crazy wing will drive her out eventually
  • Last Thursday, Labour was 9% ahead of the Conservatives in our Westminster Voting Intention Poll.

    Today, and every Monday and Thursday, at 5pm, we will release our latest poll.

    Who will be leading in this week's poll? And by how much?

    Follow us @RedfieldWilton to find out.

    Tory lead?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Update: AFP: Deputy Secretary-General of NATO: The alliance is free from its previous commitments with Russia not to deploy its forces in Eastern Europe.

    https://twitter.com/endgameww3/status/1531162454595620864
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    That clip's worth a watch. Nandy is great: clear answers, and rather witty: "I can't believe how many times the pair of us have said the word 'penis' on Breakfast TV - I'd like to apologise to all the listeners who are probably choking on their breakfast...."

    And for those who say "why is Labour talking about this?", it is of course Ferrari who raised (sic) it.
    Weakish point surely? If multiple senior labour figures have issued conflicting statements over whether the moon is made of Stilton, why would a political interviewer not ask the question of a senior labour figure he is interviewing? It was Ferrari who raised the whole cheese issue is not really a answer.
  • Do Britons believe the Gov't is currently taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 16%
    No 70%

    Do Britons believe a Gov't led by the Labour Party would currently be taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 36%
    No 36%
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Last Thursday, Labour was 9% ahead of the Conservatives in our Westminster Voting Intention Poll.

    Today, and every Monday and Thursday, at 5pm, we will release our latest poll.

    Who will be leading in this week's poll? And by how much?

    Follow us @RedfieldWilton to find out.

    Tory lead?

    Standard wording every Monday. Labour lead of 5 to 7
  • IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    That clip's worth a watch. Nandy is great: clear answers, and rather witty: "I can't believe how many times the pair of us have said the word 'penis' on Breakfast TV - I'd like to apologise to all the listeners who are probably choking on their breakfast...."

    And for those who say "why is Labour talking about this?", it is of course Ferrari who raised (sic) it.
    Weakish point surely? If multiple senior labour figures have issued conflicting statements over whether the moon is made of Stilton, why would a political interviewer not ask the question of a senior labour figure he is interviewing? It was Ferrari who raised the whole cheese issue is not really a answer.
    But the Labour front-bench has NOT released conflicting answers. As I keep saying, they keep repeating the same policy!
  • Last Thursday, Labour was 9% ahead of the Conservatives in our Westminster Voting Intention Poll.

    Today, and every Monday and Thursday, at 5pm, we will release our latest poll.

    Who will be leading in this week's poll? And by how much?

    Follow us @RedfieldWilton to find out.

    Tory lead?

    Standard wording every Monday. Labour lead of 5 to 7
    It was a joke.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
    He really wouldnt
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
    I am amazed that the airframes have not exceeded their mandated life. Then again, the Americans are still flying B52s that are older than I am :D
    Some of the aircraft that pre-date finite element analysis and other computerised wizardry are massively over-engineered (eg B-52, RC-135, KC-135). They did not know how to design aircraft to align the fatigue life with the expected operational life. Of course, they occasionally got it wrong in the other direction too...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142

    Pulpstar said:

    More rivers flowing generally northward - Weser, Elbe, Daugeva...

    I suppose 'northward' depends on how tight the northerly angle is.

    But pretty much any significant length of north coast will have rivers flowing into it from the south.
    And that's where this whole thing has come from. The way the land masses are arranged means that a lot of north facing coasts are in high latitudes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    More that you are missing the point that aside from the hyper partisan and the political zealots nobody else cares.

    Its a fascinating bit of political bubble projection that people may be made poorer and may be fed up with the government's massive failings but can't vote Labour because of something one of them said about what a woman us.

    Politics was much more fun when the grown ups were on both sides. Could have genuine policy debates. Now its more like having to explain to the other side very excited by lady cocks that their issue is very small and the voters are far away.
    I was watching the aftermath of the 1992 election the other day, the debate from Blair, Livingstone (!), the Tory bloke (can't remember, Brian Gould?) and Shirley Williams. They actually talked about policies and ideas.

    All quite dull really, can we go back to that?
    Seriously doubt Brian Gould was the Tory!
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited May 2022

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Update: AFP: Deputy Secretary-General of NATO: The alliance is free from its previous commitments with Russia not to deploy its forces in Eastern Europe.

    https://twitter.com/endgameww3/status/1531162454595620864

    Context would be great

    here's the speech he made last week in Vilnius

    https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_195840.htm
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Last Thursday, Labour was 9% ahead of the Conservatives in our Westminster Voting Intention Poll.

    Today, and every Monday and Thursday, at 5pm, we will release our latest poll.

    Who will be leading in this week's poll? And by how much?

    Follow us @RedfieldWilton to find out.

    Tory lead?

    Standard wording every Monday. Labour lead of 5 to 7
    It was a joke.
    Unless they are leading. And BJicispm forever
  • dixiedean said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    More that you are missing the point that aside from the hyper partisan and the political zealots nobody else cares.

    Its a fascinating bit of political bubble projection that people may be made poorer and may be fed up with the government's massive failings but can't vote Labour because of something one of them said about what a woman us.

    Politics was much more fun when the grown ups were on both sides. Could have genuine policy debates. Now its more like having to explain to the other side very excited by lady cocks that their issue is very small and the voters are far away.
    I was watching the aftermath of the 1992 election the other day, the debate from Blair, Livingstone (!), the Tory bloke (can't remember, Brian Gould?) and Shirley Williams. They actually talked about policies and ideas.

    All quite dull really, can we go back to that?
    Seriously doubt Brian Gould was the Tory!
    No you're right, I don't know who I am thinking of
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
    He really wouldnt
    Huge insight there.
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    edited May 2022

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Spot on. All these 'trans', 'wokism', 'cancel culture' issues are puffed up by right-wing tossers who generally don't have to worry about mundane things like paying for food or heating.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    Does Nick Ferrari post on here as @Leon? They both seem equally obsessed with penises.

    Great answer from Nandy btw - it's the first time I have really watched her in an interview like that tbh. Rather impressive.
    Nah he had a "pro" and "anti" trans person on and he gave the "anti" trans one a far harder time.

    But he is also wily (and right wing) enough to know how to trip up politicos.

    I like him. And James O'Brien. Both make me want to call them and virulently disagree with their political take on things.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
    I am amazed that the airframes have not exceeded their mandated life. Then again, the Americans are still flying B52s that are older than I am :D
    Some of the aircraft that pre-date finite element analysis and other computerised wizardry are massively over-engineered (eg B-52, RC-135, KC-135). They did not know how to design aircraft to align the fatigue life with the expected operational life. Of course, they occasionally got it wrong in the other direction too...
    I think there may be some DC3s flying still. Perhaps by "bush" pilots in places like Alaska.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529

    Do Britons believe the Gov't is currently taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 16%
    No 70%

    Do Britons believe a Gov't led by the Labour Party would currently be taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 36%
    No 36%

    Do you know what people think is the 'right measure' ?

    Its "take it from them and give it to me".

    The problem any government has is that some of the taking always comes from 'people like me' and some of the giving always goes to 'people like them'.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    That clip's worth a watch. Nandy is great: clear answers, and rather witty: "I can't believe how many times the pair of us have said the word 'penis' on Breakfast TV - I'd like to apologise to all the listeners who are probably choking on their breakfast...."

    And for those who say "why is Labour talking about this?", it is of course Ferrari who raised (sic) it.
    In response to an article in the Telegraph by Stella Creasy, MP.

    Ferrari’s question “be born with” rather than “have” let Nandy elegantly dance around the subject. The TLDR Nandy answer was “yes” to the latter. This has implications in for example, the Criminal Justice system:

    As a politician of the left I don’t normally look to Policy Exchange to shape my views on policy development, but I’m grateful to them for publishing this paper by@OHaraMaureen9 with my foreword. All politicians should read it.


    https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/transgenderism-and-policy-capture-in-the-criminal-justice-system/

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1531189072491909120
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
    He really wouldnt
    Huge insight there.
    A bit like 'Ed Balls would be a great PM today' tbf Horse. Ones a suggestion, the others a disagreement.
    Dont start gettimg pissy with me because im disagreeing with you.
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
    He really wouldnt
    Huge insight there.
    A bit like 'Ed Balls would be a great PM today' tbf Horse. Ones a suggestion, the others a disagreement.
    Dont start gettimg pissy with me because im disagreeing with you.
    It was just a light touch joke buddy
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Conservatives ‘in denial’ over difficulties party is facing, says former minister – UK politics live https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/30/conservatives-denial-party-difficulties-tobias-ellwood-boris-johnson-partygate-uk-politics-latest?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Lucky for BoZo that the watered down report has absolutely put the issue to bed forever...
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    Oh dear.

    I say "I believe not X". You then ask "do you honestly believe X?"

    A little bit of assumption of good faith in the discussion wouldn't go amiss.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    Mornin! Back from my little break away. On topic, get rid of Boris and the next defection will be Rosie Duffield to Conservatives.
    Istr when the tories were leading a few months ago the Mail were saying a 'few' labour were planning to go Tory. Nahhhhhhh, but Rosie will if the circs are there, the first trans debate/culture wars crosser

    I haven't commented much on the trans debate but there must be perplexed parents when their children hear the question from various journalist and innocently ask

    'Mummy, do you have a penis' ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    It feeds into a wider debate about 'wokeism' or more precisely, the extreme positions being taken by the more radical leftists. We have a baby version of the much bigger issue over all this raging in America
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I suggest that the next time a journalist asks such a question, the respondent ask them to drop their pants just to establish a basis for the conversation. There was a great vid on Youtube a few years back where a trans woman asked the (female) interviewer the same sort of questions that she normally got asked, but altered slightly - "Do you have a vagina? Can I see it? Are your boobs real? Can I touch them? When did you have your first period? What's it like having sex?" etc... The interviewer sad they were the most intrusive, rude and upsetting questions she had ever been asked....
    Link, or it didn't happen, and does it really work anyway? extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, commonplace ones don't, and what is this bloke doing on telly anyway if he doesn't like that sort of question?
    You cannot search YT yourself?

    cannot is one thing, CBA another.
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    Oh dear.

    I say "I believe not X". You then ask "do you honestly believe X?"

    A little bit of assumption of good faith in the discussion wouldn't go amiss.
    You said you can ignore polls about issues, why?
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    It feeds into a wider debate about 'wokeism' or more precisely, the extreme positions being taken by the more radical leftists. We have a baby version of the much bigger issue over all this raging in America
    And how many people care about wokeism? Really?

    My Dad is a lifelong Tory, even he doesn't care
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    Oh dear.

    I say "I believe not X". You then ask "do you honestly believe X?"

    A little bit of assumption of good faith in the discussion wouldn't go amiss.
    You said you can ignore polls about issues, why?
    Because decades of polling on "what do you think are the most important issues facing Britain today?" have shown that they always follow the news, they never lead it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
    He really wouldnt
    Huge insight there.
    A bit like 'Ed Balls would be a great PM today' tbf Horse. Ones a suggestion, the others a disagreement.
    Dont start gettimg pissy with me because im disagreeing with you.
    It was just a light touch joke buddy
    Okey dokes, alls well in the stable
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Spot on. All these 'trans', 'wokism', 'cancel culture' issues are puffed up by right-wing tossers who generally don't have to worry about mundane things like paying for food or heating.
    J K Rowling is right wing ?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Life beckons! Later peeps! :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
    I am amazed that the airframes have not exceeded their mandated life. Then again, the Americans are still flying B52s that are older than I am :D
    Some of the aircraft that pre-date finite element analysis and other computerised wizardry are massively over-engineered (eg B-52, RC-135, KC-135). They did not know how to design aircraft to align the fatigue life with the expected operational life. Of course, they occasionally got it wrong in the other direction too...
    Reminds me of the Open Class Cirrus I had. Early use of Fibreglass spars. Man, those wings were heavy.

    image
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I am afraid that once the media latch onto something they will pursue the ' gocha' moment ad infinitum
    Yeah, and it's a bit much for a one-eyed Labourite to complain about the technique only on the rare occasions it's used on them.
    You must be gutted your pals are so far behind in the polls, beergate failed and now surely Johnson must be announcing a new bridge to the moon?
    My pals? I voted Labour as recently as 2012 and have been begging for months for them to come up with some decent policies so I can consider voting for them again - but all they seem to be able to come up with is "the same mistakes the Tories are making, but bigger" - oh, and the "new policy" that biology is a thing.
    You voted Labour in 2012 so in the local elections? What did Ed M do in 2015 to annoy you so much?

    Windfall tax, cutting VAT - the Tories keep stealing them
    2015? The complete lack of policies, for a start. Out of his great six "policies", as carved in stone, five and a half of them were things that nobody on any side would have disagreed with.

    And in any case in 2015 I voted Lib Dem because, on balance, despite some of their shenanigans in coalition, they deserved a better reward for doing the right thing and going into coalition with Cameron.

    As for windfall tax - you prove my point. A terrible idea that Labour would do the same, but bigger.
    I liked Ed M, he would have been a much better PM than anyone else who has come since.

    He had a terrible team of advisers.
    Like Ed Balls, hes a better comedy/social media novelty act than politician.
    Ed Balls would be a superb PM as of today.
    He really wouldnt
    Huge insight there.
    A bit like 'Ed Balls would be a great PM today' tbf Horse. Ones a suggestion, the others a disagreement.
    Dont start gettimg pissy with me because im disagreeing with you.
    It was just a light touch joke buddy
    Okey dokes, alls well in the stable
    I am in great form as are you m
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    tlg86 said:

    I see a French Minister is blaming Liverpool fans for arriving without tickets

    I would just say that even if some did, it was upto the organisation of the event to put in arrangements to check tickets further out from the perimeter of the ground and from what I have seen and read the French Minister should hang his head in shame as families and their children were tear gassed by his police

    This morning on TalkSPORT they had a Liverpool fan on who said they got to the ground two and a quarter hours before kick off, but wasn't able to get into the ground until after the scheduled kick off time. What I want to know is, what time did the Liverpool fans who were in the ground an hour before the scheduled kick off arrive?


    Not unusual at these events that some of the entrances work fine, and others don't. So two fans arriving at the ground at same time might get in hours apart.

    For this type of game where it is obvious there can be problems, I would generally look to be at the ground at least 3.5 hours before kick off and be getting inside the stadium at least 2 hours before kick off, preferably 2.5.
    Couldn't grounds do more to encourage this? Put some show on before hand that some fans would like to be there for but not others? Bring out a big screen and what highlights of their route to the final?

    When I go to concerts at the O2, this is effectively what happens.
    Formula 1 does this really well. They have a programme of support races before the Grand Prix, then put on a concert after the race finishes to control the exit of the crowd from the venue.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    edited May 2022

    I see a French Minister is blaming Liverpool fans for arriving without tickets

    I would just say that even if some did, it was upto the organisation of the event to put in arrangements to check tickets further out from the perimeter of the ground and from what I have seen and read the French Minister should hang his head in shame as families and their children were tear gassed by his police

    I am sure that I read they did put in an outer perimeter to check tickets. Perhaps someone who was there would know? Still, plenty of reports from people who got tickets from official UEFA and club sources being told, like the poster on here, that they were fake, so there's obviously something up.

    It looks like neither side are going to let this go, and I suspect it'll end up with plenty of criticism all round. Klopp was foolish to tell fans to go without tickets, and there are videos all over of fans in red shirts climbing walls and forcing there way through ticket barriers. There were lots of congratulatory posts around before the match about how many more Liverpool fans were about compared with Madrid fans. The reaction of the police was excessive, and clearly that continued in situations where they weren't under any pressure at all, with people being tear gassed through fences.

    I know that sadly football fans of a club are often all tarred with the same brush, but I have to say I'm a little surprised that Liverpool fans who bought legit tickets, and travelled at often great expense to Paris, are not more angry with the idiots who bought fake tickets, or climbed over fences.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,145
    IshmaelZ said:

    On topic:

    I think you are mistaken Nick. Those in weaker seats seem to be fearful of rocking the boat. Johnson sycophants will never vote against him and (having been so close to Boris) would a Labour CLP accept them? That leaves the MPs in strong seats who will not throw that away for a less strong position under Labour.

    If they do not defenestrate Boris then I expect all we will see are more lurches to the right, harsher policies - esp. Law and Order - and lots more weaponised nostaligia.

    The latter sounds like a classic core vote operation. In which case, we can say hello to PM Starmer.
    Its the exact same lack of political nous that goes with zealots of every persuasion. They are Right. They speak the Truth. So if you disagree with them you are wrong and a liar and obviously working for the other side.

    Which is how we ended up with a Corbyn project which disappeared up its own paranoid arse and a Johnson government now thinking that "THEY BANNED CROWN LOGOS ON PINT GLASSES" is a vote winner.
    The imperial measures nonsense is such nonsense, not least as I distinctly remember ordering pints of beer and cider on saturday after cricket and receiving them. And they were the full 568 ml.
    No issues at all.

    Really, if this is the best the government has, its time to go and have a hard think about what being in power is for.
    I think they have never actually used a map or GPS on a walk, nor ever been shopping. I doubt people ever bought bananas by weight in the first place and you certainly don't now, you self-select and weigh to get a price not a weight.
    The measure is simply removing a restriction on how people do commerce. Returning freedom to the people. What’s actually wrong with that?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142

    Do Britons believe the Gov't is currently taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 16%
    No 70%

    Do Britons believe a Gov't led by the Labour Party would currently be taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 36%
    No 36%

    Do you know what people think is the 'right measure' ?

    Its "take it from them and give it to me".

    The problem any government has is that some of the taking always comes from 'people like me' and some of the giving always goes to 'people like them'.
    What I do know is, neither party wants a tighter monetary policy. And in the long-term, that is the only answer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247
    Scott_xP said:

    Conservatives ‘in denial’ over difficulties party is facing, says former minister

    But do their difficulties flow south to north or north to south?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    It feeds into a wider debate about 'wokeism' or more precisely, the extreme positions being taken by the more radical leftists. We have a baby version of the much bigger issue over all this raging in America
    And how many people care about wokeism? Really?

    My Dad is a lifelong Tory, even he doesn't care
    Like i said, its a reaction to the radical position of the loony left mainly, where there is a drastic move from 'just be nice/tolerant' to 'everything is racist/transphobic/youre all privileged' bull. Labour tend towards the latter the leftwards in the party you scan

    Edit - like anything the radicsls will come up against a brick wall when they start telling ths people who just want to be left alone that they are all privileged, racist transphobes
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    Oh dear.

    I say "I believe not X". You then ask "do you honestly believe X?"

    A little bit of assumption of good faith in the discussion wouldn't go amiss.
    You said you can ignore polls about issues, why?
    Because decades of polling on "what do you think are the most important issues facing Britain today?" have shown that they always follow the news, they never lead it.
    Or run in parallel with it? This is like saying you can ignore the news because it is always slightly behind the stuff which is actually happens. Feedback loops seems a relevant concept.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872

    Mornin! Back from my little break away. On topic, get rid of Boris and the next defection will be Rosie Duffield to Conservatives.
    Istr when the tories were leading a few months ago the Mail were saying a 'few' labour were planning to go Tory. Nahhhhhhh, but Rosie will if the circs are there, the first trans debate/culture wars crosser

    I haven't commented much on the trans debate but there must be perplexed parents when their children hear the question from various journalist and innocently ask

    'Mummy, do you have a penis' ?
    For whatever weird reason, I heard that in the voice of Prince Charles.

    'Ask your dad' would work as an answer on several levels.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I suggest that the next time a journalist asks such a question, the respondent ask them to drop their pants just to establish a basis for the conversation. There was a great vid on Youtube a few years back where a trans woman asked the (female) interviewer the same sort of questions that she normally got asked, but altered slightly - "Do you have a vagina? Can I see it? Are your boobs real? Can I touch them? When did you have your first period? What's it like having sex?" etc... The interviewer sad they were the most intrusive, rude and upsetting questions she had ever been asked....
    Link, or it didn't happen, and does it really work anyway? extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, commonplace ones don't, and what is this bloke doing on telly anyway if he doesn't like that sort of question?
    You cannot search YT yourself?

    cannot is one thing, CBA another.
    So you CBA = "it didn't happen"?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,145
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    First!

    FPT -

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I’m not convinced “bobbies on the beat” *doesn’t* work, if one can use the term in the fullest sense.

    To me it implies policemen who take have the time and focus to really understand a specific local community and can therefore act prophylactically, as it were.

    The 1997 pledge card pledged to halve the time to sentencing for young offenders.

    That sort of pledge should run again. Waiting lists for trial dates are a scandal. In practice a lot of cases are going to have to be abandoned otherwise.
    The Tory record on crime is appalling.
    Also on health care.
    Also on standards of living.

    I can’t think of a government - not since Major’s Tories indeed - with a poorer record to take to the voters on the three most salient issues.
    In 1997, crime was falling thanks to Howard and unemployment was low and the economy was growing, certainly a better legacy on that than Brown Labour in 2010
    There can be no doubt whatsoever that in 1997 Britain was a land of pure delight at the wisdom and foresight of its benign and wise rulers.
    1997 was quite some election. I really enjoyed it.

    That the economy had picked up didn't endear the government to the voters.
    Same here. I was at a party and when the Northavon result came in as a LD win we all looked at each other going where the f*** is Northavon? A bit of thought and we could probably worked out it was north of the Avon.
    Yes, but which Avon? There are at least three ignoring soundalikes.
    Because it's from the Welsh 'Afon' meaning 'river.'

    It's always amused me that so many people river to the 'River Avon' unaware that it's a tautology.
    Esk/Usk/etc is also Brythonic for water (cf. Gaelic Uisge in the first element of 'whisky') ... hence the number of Esks and for that matter Axe and Exe too ...
    We could Baugh for England on this topic.

    Well, we could if either of us were English!
    (FPT) There's a Judge Judge, so what's wrong with River River ?
    My neighbour's kids have adopted this sort of naming convention for their ducks - two of them are called "Runner" and "Peking"
    I know a family who named their ducklings “Grouse” “Oar” and “Duck”
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    Does Nick Ferrari post on here as @Leon? They both seem equally obsessed with penises.

    Great answer from Nandy btw - it's the first time I have really watched her in an interview like that tbh. Rather impressive.
    Nah he had a "pro" and "anti" trans person on and he gave the "anti" trans one a far harder time.

    But he is also wily (and right wing) enough to know how to trip up politicos.

    I like him. And James O'Brien. Both make me want to call them and virulently disagree with their political take on things.
    The difference between them is that Nick Ferrari can give people a hard time whilst being polite. James O'Brien is incapable of being anything but rude to people he disagrees with.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    I suggest that the next time a journalist asks such a question, the respondent ask them to drop their pants just to establish a basis for the conversation. There was a great vid on Youtube a few years back where a trans woman asked the (female) interviewer the same sort of questions that she normally got asked, but altered slightly - "Do you have a vagina? Can I see it? Are your boobs real? Can I touch them? When did you have your first period? What's it like having sex?" etc... The interviewer sad they were the most intrusive, rude and upsetting questions she had ever been asked....
    Link, or it didn't happen, and does it really work anyway? extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, commonplace ones don't, and what is this bloke doing on telly anyway if he doesn't like that sort of question?
    You cannot search YT yourself?

    cannot is one thing, CBA another.
    So you CBA = "it didn't happen"?
    Allegans probare debet is the family motto.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    There's quite a lot left unsaid between the lines in this rather carefully crafted Mirror piece.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/who-boris-johnsons-wife-carrie-27082155.amp
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    Oh dear.

    I say "I believe not X". You then ask "do you honestly believe X?"

    A little bit of assumption of good faith in the discussion wouldn't go amiss.
    You said you can ignore polls about issues, why?
    Because decades of polling on "what do you think are the most important issues facing Britain today?" have shown that they always follow the news, they never lead it.
    But does the news follow popular opinion, rather than shape it? Brooks in her evidence to Leveson said that the newsroom paid very careful attention to comments and responses to stories. You’re not a “popular press” if you keep banging on about things people don’t care about.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    nova said:

    I see a French Minister is blaming Liverpool fans for arriving without tickets

    I would just say that even if some did, it was upto the organisation of the event to put in arrangements to check tickets further out from the perimeter of the ground and from what I have seen and read the French Minister should hang his head in shame as families and their children were tear gassed by his police

    I am sure that I read they did put in an outer perimeter to check tickets. Perhaps someone who was there would know? Still, plenty of reports from people who got tickets from official UEFA and club sources being told, like the poster on here, that they were fake, so there's obviously something up.

    It looks like neither side are going to let this go, and I suspect it'll end up with plenty of criticism all round. Klopp was foolish to tell fans to go without tickets, and there are videos all over of fans in red shirts climbing walls and forcing there way through ticket barriers. There were lots of congratulatory posts around before the match about how many more Liverpool fans were about compared with Madrid fans. The reaction of the police was excessive, and clearly that continued in situations where they weren't under any pressure at all, with people being tear gassed through fences.

    I know that sadly football fans of a club are often all tarred with the same brush, but I have to say I'm a little surprised that Liverpool fans who bought legit tickets, and travelled at often great expense to Paris, are not more angry with the idiots who bought fake tickets, or climbed over fences.
    Great post, especially the final paragraph.

    In 2013, my tickets for Fulham v Arsenal (in the away end, so very sought after tickets) didn't turn up. I rang Arsenal who put me in touch with Fulham. They agreed to duplicate the tickets and give them to me at the box office before the game. So we turned up early, got our tickets and went in. 10 minutes into the game, a couple of young lads come down our row with the original tickets wanting to stand (we don't sit at away games) where we were. We told them to get lost (they did, I can't remember where they went), but in hindsight, I should really have found a copper (plenty in the away end) and said that there were two lads in possession of stolen property.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Spot on. All these 'trans', 'wokism', 'cancel culture' issues are puffed up by right-wing tossers who generally don't have to worry about mundane things like paying for food or heating.
    J K Rowling is right wing ?
    Fair point. I'm not sure she has to worry about her food and heating bills though. ;-)
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,872

    Really pleased to see this liberalisation of the immigration rules being announced. An excellent idea: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61628740

    The one thing that put me off Brexit as an idea is the anti-immigration ranting of Farage etc al and one thing that won me around to switching sides during the referendum campaign was Gove and Boris not being anti immigration and actually talking about how if we had controlled immigration it could be liberalised in areas.

    Regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, I hope we can all agree liberalising so more of the best and brightest can come here is a good thing. 👍

    I could live with this, though tweaking of the 5 years might be good.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    AlistairM said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    Does Nick Ferrari post on here as @Leon? They both seem equally obsessed with penises.

    Great answer from Nandy btw - it's the first time I have really watched her in an interview like that tbh. Rather impressive.
    Nah he had a "pro" and "anti" trans person on and he gave the "anti" trans one a far harder time.

    But he is also wily (and right wing) enough to know how to trip up politicos.

    I like him. And James O'Brien. Both make me want to call them and virulently disagree with their political take on things.
    The difference between them is that Nick Ferrari can give people a hard time whilst being polite. James O'Brien is incapable of being anything but rude to people he disagrees with.
    O'Brien is unbearable. And obsessed with Brexit. He oozes 'if only the plebs saw the world correctly like me' arrogance
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservatives ‘in denial’ over difficulties party is facing, says former minister

    But do their difficulties flow south to north or north to south?
    An Ob scure allusion
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600

    Mornin! Back from my little break away. On topic, get rid of Boris and the next defection will be Rosie Duffield to Conservatives.
    Istr when the tories were leading a few months ago the Mail were saying a 'few' labour were planning to go Tory. Nahhhhhhh, but Rosie will if the circs are there, the first trans debate/culture wars crosser

    I haven't commented much on the trans debate but there must be perplexed parents when their children hear the question from various journalist and innocently ask

    'Mummy, do you have a penis' ?
    Why on earth does Ferrari think it's important to ask Nandy about this? There's only one reason - he wants to catch her out.

    Failed dismally on that clip.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Spot on. All these 'trans', 'wokism', 'cancel culture' issues are puffed up by right-wing tossers who generally don't have to worry about mundane things like paying for food or heating.
    J K Rowling is right wing ?
    Everyone and everything that is not on message now is far right. Radical Democrat America has decreed it!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Spot on. All these 'trans', 'wokism', 'cancel culture' issues are puffed up by right-wing tossers who generally don't have to worry about mundane things like paying for food or heating.
    J K Rowling is right wing ?
    She's a hyper-capitalist with reactionary views and a is a donor to the Labour Party (which exists to entrench the interests of capital) so, yes, she is.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    Toms said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

    Boris Johnson, winning again!

    He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next :D:D
    The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).
    I am amazed that the airframes have not exceeded their mandated life. Then again, the Americans are still flying B52s that are older than I am :D
    Some of the aircraft that pre-date finite element analysis and other computerised wizardry are massively over-engineered (eg B-52, RC-135, KC-135). They did not know how to design aircraft to align the fatigue life with the expected operational life. Of course, they occasionally got it wrong in the other direction too...
    I think there may be some DC3s flying still. Perhaps by "bush" pilots in places like Alaska.
    Don't know about DC3s but the Grumman Goose is pretty contemporary with that, and there are a couple of dozen of those still going.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    nova said:

    I see a French Minister is blaming Liverpool fans for arriving without tickets

    I would just say that even if some did, it was upto the organisation of the event to put in arrangements to check tickets further out from the perimeter of the ground and from what I have seen and read the French Minister should hang his head in shame as families and their children were tear gassed by his police

    I am sure that I read they did put in an outer perimeter to check tickets. Perhaps someone who was there would know? Still, plenty of reports from people who got tickets from official UEFA and club sources being told, like the poster on here, that they were fake, so there's obviously something up.

    It looks like neither side are going to let this go, and I suspect it'll end up with plenty of criticism all round. Klopp was foolish to tell fans to go without tickets, and there are videos all over of fans in red shirts climbing walls and forcing there way through ticket barriers. There were lots of congratulatory posts around before the match about how many more Liverpool fans were about compared with Madrid fans. The reaction of the police was excessive, and clearly that continued in situations where they weren't under any pressure at all, with people being tear gassed through fences.

    I know that sadly football fans of a club are often all tarred with the same brush, but I have to say I'm a little surprised that Liverpool fans who bought legit tickets, and travelled at often great expense to Paris, are not more angry with the idiots who bought fake tickets, or climbed over fences.
    It would be interesting to know how many Liverpool fans were in the St Denis area compared with the number of official Liverpool tickets.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,718

    Good morning

    Nick makes a good argument and I could see some defections by the conference season if the conservative party has not come to its senses and removed Boris

    I would like to take this opportunity of saying that I am not a monarchist, notwithstanding my respect for the queen, and will not be attending any street parties or even watching much of the coverage

    However, I do worry we are turning into a society that is joyless and where some want to denigrate those who are looking forward to the celebrations, which frankly is just acting as killjoys for something that shouldn't really bother anyone

    We all need to be more tolerant and understanding to each other

    Good morning! On your latter points I feel there is a basic division which causes the problems. There are two groups:
    Those who will celebrate / not celebrate for their own reasons
    Those who will or won't celebrate for political reasons because it winds up the other lot

    Frankly I find the spectacle of the monarchy to be amazing and preposterous in equal measure. The Ste Opening of Parliament was both the kind of pageant that we are experts at and an absurd spectacle in equal measure. And the Jubilee isn't much better.

    The problem is that there are people who want to drape themselves in the Union flag to stick it up socialists / nationalists, and those repulsed by it all precisely because of the kind of people who are draped in the flag.

    The solution is to steal back flags and symbols from the idiots. Blair got this right with the whole "Cool Britannia" thing (until we all got bored) and the Saltire up here is a national pride thing not a nat identity thing. So it can be done.
    I will be attending a couple of local street parties over the Jubilee weekend, including one on our street. I'm not sure that in the real world they are terribly divisive, where we live there are probably not many ardent royalists but attendees will have a range of views from those like me who support a constitutional monarchy to convinced republicans. We will all have a good time because we live in a nice friendly neighbourhood full of lovely people and the events are more about celebrating our community and having a good time than anything royalist or patriotic.
    Well, exactly. In Godalming, there will be a street party and the council have decorated the High Street with all the flags of the Commonwealth, which I think is a nice idea. This has triggered a culture war on Facebook (literally hundreds of posts in 24 hours), with zealous monarchists demanding 100% Union Jacks, and zealous anti-imperialists denouncing Union Jacks. Supporters of the council in just celebrating the UK AND the Commonwealth as part of the Jubilee are murmuring wistfully that this should be an occasion for us all to get together, no?
    Time to start planning for the Oak Jubilee. Work with google glass or similar to allow each person individually to see whatever damn flag makes them happy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575

    Really pleased to see this liberalisation of the immigration rules being announced. An excellent idea: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61628740

    The one thing that put me off Brexit as an idea is the anti-immigration ranting of Farage etc al and one thing that won me around to switching sides during the referendum campaign was Gove and Boris not being anti immigration and actually talking about how if we had controlled immigration it could be liberalised in areas.

    Regardless of what one thinks of Brexit, I hope we can all agree liberalising so more of the best and brightest can come here is a good thing. 👍

    Providing easier visas for graduates from the top 50 universities in the world however as this policy proposes will not bother Leave voters one bit.

    Voters in Stoke and Hartlepool were voting to restrict low skilled and unskilled immigration to their areas, not graduates and phds from Harvard moving to work in central London
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217

    Is it me or is the daily MOD brief on Ukraine becoming lost in the realms of wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1531143716840284161?s=20&t=FIwr0IRFqeu7iJ3RTVZDBQ

    It starts with:
    "Russia has likely suffered devastating losses amongst its mid and junior ranking officers..."

    Whereas all the new outlets are indicating Russian progress, sadly, e.g. the BBC's "Heavy fighting as Russia advances into key eastern city".

    The MoD briefing on Ukraine has been poor all the way through. It's embarrassing.

    They had Kharkiv assessed as encircled for ages when there were lots of journalists travelling in and out of the city on major highways.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    edited May 2022

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

    I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

    Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.
    They defined a woman in the call - as I said the policy is now what people seem to want. Job done?

    I'm not saying it can't be important, I just don't know anyone genuinely who votes on this issue. I am happy to be corrected.
    The point is not that people vote directly on the issue, but that it betrays a lack of common sense/nouse/ability to think logically and that casts a shadow over everything else that they say.
    But who is actually concluding that from this? I don't know anyone.

    If it was at all important, it would show up in the polls that get asked about important issues. Or it would impact Labour's numbers.

    In focus groups it doesn't come up from everything I have seen. They still call Starmer boring
    You can safely ignore polls about important issues - they never do anything but reflect the top three issues of what's in the news right now.
    Do you honestly believe trans issues are on the minds of people
    It feeds into a wider debate about 'wokeism' or more precisely, the extreme positions being taken by the more radical leftists. We have a baby version of the much bigger issue over all this raging in America
    And how many people care about wokeism? Really?

    My Dad is a lifelong Tory, even he doesn't care
    If you’re trying to attract floating voters, then social issues - or more precisely, the extreme versions of them espoused by a small number of loud activists - can influence voting choice.

    There will be a number of Conservative 2019 voters who think the government is crap and won’t vote for them next time - but end up sitting on the sofa, rather than switching their vote to a party who appear obsessed with women’s penises, and think of anyone with slightly different views to be evil bigots.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,129
    edited May 2022
    Good article, but is it really the case that defections "used to be common, but have been unfashionable at Parliamentary level in recent years"?

    It's a little tricky to enumerate defections (you'd probably not count whip suspension, fit of pique over deselection, or matters like changes within Ulster Unionism or Scottish Nationalism - but it quickly becomes a bit blurred). However, aside from a big SDP spike in the 1979-83 Parliament (28 to the SDP) and smaller one in the shorter 2017-19 Parliament (11 to Change UK, some going on to the Lib Dems, plus three to the Lib Dems not via ChUK), it's been slow and steady. Only 1983-87 didn't see a "real" defection (John Ryman leaving Labour is hard to classify but certainly wasn't a classic defection) - it's been slow and steady, low single figures counting only "proper" defections.

    That's probably a little more than pre-1979 - there were a fair number of whip resignations from the Tories over Suez and Labour over various internal rows, but not floor crossing in the sense we're talking about here.

    I'd not be shocked to see a couple more over the remainder of the Parliament - they tend to accelerate a little towards the end as writing appears on walls in some cases, and retirees get demob happy in others.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    edited May 2022
    AlistairM said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

    Nick Ferrari asks Shadow Levelling Up Secretary @lisanandy if a woman can be born with a penis. @NickFerrariLBC

    Another frontbencher explains the new Labour policy.

    Can we stop asking this pointless question now?

    Does Nick Ferrari post on here as @Leon? They both seem equally obsessed with penises.

    Great answer from Nandy btw - it's the first time I have really watched her in an interview like that tbh. Rather impressive.
    Nah he had a "pro" and "anti" trans person on and he gave the "anti" trans one a far harder time.

    But he is also wily (and right wing) enough to know how to trip up politicos.

    I like him. And James O'Brien. Both make me want to call them and virulently disagree with their political take on things.
    The difference between them is that Nick Ferrari can give people a hard time whilst being polite. James O'Brien is incapable of being anything but rude to people he disagrees with.
    I can live with it. If I had a bit more time I'd call him up to argue the toss but I don't so I don't.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    On topic, should be noted more Tory MPs defected to UKIP or ChangeUK in the last 10 years than have defected to either Labour or the LDs
This discussion has been closed.