So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
I think it got to a stage where if a ticket didn't scan first time they just rejected you because of the pressure build up and organised attempts to bum rush certain gates.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
You mean that UEFA contains crooks who are faking/giving out duplicate tickets.
I am shocked that criminality is happening here. Also can I have my winnings on account to save carrying them?
The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.
They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS
Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance
Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April
Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
…Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.
Euromaidan Press @EuromaidanPress Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet: 🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr 🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka 🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road … https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403
Ukrainians seem to be having a better couple of days. Here's hoping anyway.
Yes, the Russians seem to have run out of momentum, if not artillery shells. The Ukranian offensives at Izium and at Kherson do seem to be making progress too.
The Ukrainians claim 29,750 dead Russians. Now that might be way off - but the Russians haven't updated since March, so maybe closer to the truth than Russia can live with.
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.
They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS
Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance
Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April
Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
It's borrowing, isn't it? We haven't had a fiscally neutral budget in decades.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
You mean that UEFA contains crooks who are faking/giving out duplicate tickets.
I am shocked that criminality is happening here. Also can I have my winnings on account to save carrying them?
More likely just that Uefa gives 40,000 tickets to people who do not really want them: fans of other clubs, sponsors and so on. Even the players will probably have been given tickets to give away. I used to know a chap who used to go to Lords and the Oval courtesy of his mate on the England team.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.
They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS
Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance
Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April
Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
It's borrowing, isn't it? We haven't had a fiscally neutral budget in decades.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Indeed, but it’s easier for UEFA to blame the fans, rather than look at their own organisational failings around these big matches.
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.
They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS
Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance
Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April
Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
It's borrowing, isn't it? We haven't had a fiscally neutral budget in decades.
And inflation is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting through fiscal drag and increased profits…..I wonder if they are 100% upset about it…
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
I never saw Sana’a. Sob. Too late now
At least I saw Palmyra
The Georgians have learned from our mistakes. They are slowly doing up the Old Town of Tbilisi, street by street. Trying to save every building, and every ornate balcony.
Those that cannot be saved they are rebuilding in EXACTLY the same style. No twatty modern architects here, trying to make a “personal statement”. Well done Tbilisi Old Town
But if you want to see it with lashings of its old untouched flavour, come now
…Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.
Euromaidan Press @EuromaidanPress Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet: 🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr 🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka 🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road … https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403
Ukrainians seem to be having a better couple of days. Here's hoping anyway.
Yes, the Russians seem to have run out of momentum, if not artillery shells. The Ukranian offensives at Izium and at Kherson do seem to be making progress too.
The Ukrainians claim 29,750 dead Russians. Now that might be way off - but the Russians haven't updated since March, so maybe closer to the truth than Russia can live with.
Saw on the BBC yesterday the UK is estimating 15,000. Even if that too is an overestimate, it is a very significant amount for countries that are not used to losing large numbers of troops anymore.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Indeed, but it’s easier for UEFA to blame the fans, rather than look at their own organisational failings around these big matches.
Fan behaviour is clearly an issue, as is poor organisation, planning, stewarding and policing. All those issues should be highlighted and addressed considering the money in the game and the expectations of fans given the ticket prices now being charged.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
…Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.
Euromaidan Press @EuromaidanPress Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet: 🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr 🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka 🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road … https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403
Ukrainians seem to be having a better couple of days. Here's hoping anyway.
Yes, the Russians seem to have run out of momentum, if not artillery shells. The Ukranian offensives at Izium and at Kherson do seem to be making progress too.
The Ukrainians claim 29,750 dead Russians. Now that might be way off - but the Russians haven't updated since March, so maybe closer to the truth than Russia can live with.
Saw on the BBC yesterday the UK is estimating 15,000. Even if that too is an overestimate, it is a very significant amount for countries that are not used to losing large numbers of troops anymore.
You can stick another 15,000 badly maimed or mentally damaged to that then. 30,000 victims of a war are hard to hide, even in a country the size of Russia. Surely the ra ra ra cheerleading for Putin's Greater Russia is at some point going to give way to "WTAF did we think we were doing there?"
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
Not sure allocating more tickets makes any significant difference. If they were freely available at say £200 a seat and the experience was very likely safe and comfortable I'd imagine Liverpool could easily sell 200k tickets for a Paris final, more for a Wembley one. England at the Euro final could have sold 1m+ at that rate. Demand is always going to outstrip supply and a lot of the troublemakers have zero interest in paying a going rate anyway.
And I question whether Labour really needs an alternative, Cameron didn't propose a solution to the GFC, just waited for Labour to lose on their own. As I said, Starmer is following his path to Downing Street
I think an opposition having an alternative can be useful, but people overestimate how necessary it is. So when people retort 'X has no answer for issue Y' it could be true, but may not itself prevent the public thinking X is still best placed.
Indeed, many electoral victories in many countries involved people and parties deliberately being vague abotuj their intentions and plans.
The 1997 pledge card was deliberately understated, so people could see that some good things were coming, and it was absolutely certain that they could be delivered with scope for more. Setting more ambitious goals would have run the risk that people would have returned to the "voting Labour is a taking a gamble" narrative.
The lesson I am taking from Australia is you don't have to generate a wave of enthusiasm to win. Indeed Labor went backwards. You just have to be better than the opponent. Like 2005 and 2010 I guess.
Wrong Lesson if it don’t mention the teal impact on outgoing government
That's part of the lesson though isn't it? No one rushed to the polls to elect Labor. They did to unseat the coalition. It wasn't just teal either. There are parallels to be drawn here when folk say Labour isn't doing well enough in local elections. They don't have to if the Tories are doing awfully. And other Parties are doing very well. As they are.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
I never saw Sana’a. Sob. Too late now
At least I saw Palmyra
The Georgians have learned from our mistakes. They are slowly doing up the Old Town of Tbilisi, street by street. Trying to save every building, and every ornate balcony.
Those that cannot be saved they are rebuilding in EXACTLY the same style. No twatty modern architects here, trying to make a “personal statement”. Well done Tbilisi Old Town
But if you want to see it with lashings of its old untouched flavour, come now
I had a visa, 20-odd years ago. Sadly never got there - the pipeline project got canned when the mad old Turkmenbashi decided he wanted US$500m upfront....
At the end of May 2022, the 90-day deadline set by Russian law for a "special military operation in Ukraine" expires. Therefore, those soldiers who arrived in Ukraine in February have grounds to "legally" leave the service. https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1530888435644346368
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
One problem with that is the authorities effectively acknowledging widespread ticket touting which for football is illegal in many countries. So buying one you have already broken the law (even if it genuine) and there could be an argument that it will increase the amount of touting because people wouldn't be put off by possibility of getting a fake.
Its a bit like having drug testing at festivals, you have to acknowledge there will be widespread drug taking, so harm reduction argument says should test to ensure people have bought what they think they have. The counter-argument is that it encourages people to try drugs as they can get them tested as "safe".
Personally it seems crazy in this day and age you can't check the validity of a ticket for sport /gigs. Its not a difficult thing to do technically.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
I never saw Sana’a. Sob. Too late now
At least I saw Palmyra
The Georgians have learned from our mistakes. They are slowly doing up the Old Town of Tbilisi, street by street. Trying to save every building, and every ornate balcony.
Those that cannot be saved they are rebuilding in EXACTLY the same style. No twatty modern architects here, trying to make a “personal statement”. Well done Tbilisi Old Town
But if you want to see it with lashings of its old untouched flavour, come now
I had a visa, 20-odd years ago. Sadly never got there - the pipeline project got canned when the mad old Turkmenbashi decided he wanted US$500m upfront....
It reminds me very strongly of Old Prague just after the wall came down. 1992? A superb old town - unexampled, really - but full of badly decaying yet marvellous old buildings from the Austro-Hungarian empire, fucked by communism but essentially wonderful. A miracle of survival
No one got poor buying old Prague properties in the 90s.
First came the artists. The exact same is happening here
At the end of May 2022, the 90-day deadline set by Russian law for a "special military operation in Ukraine" expires. Therefore, those soldiers who arrived in Ukraine in February have grounds to "legally" leave the service. https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1530888435644346368
From what I have been reading elsewhere, the Russians are not stopping those who want to leave the Armed Forces based on the law.
I have bought of resellers / touts in the past for events and it is a very stressful experience, even if you buy off a legit "reseller" as although they provide a guarantee if they do end up being fake, you really 100% certain and you could be travelling a long way to an event.
I got a nearly "too good to be true" (they were basically halfway and low down for sold out game for below face value) set of tickets for NFL London game a few years ago and was bricking it right up to the entry that I might have got fakes. Turns out they were legit and somebody really was just forced to sell them.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
I am surprisingly keen to know which PB-er liked this cretinously philistine comment, thereby revealing themselves to have an IQ of 7
You can see who has liked comments, you just need to be on a desktop. Or switch your phone browser to desktop mode if it has it. That's on Vanilla mind.
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
One problem with that is the authorities effectively acknowledging widespread ticket touting which for football is illegal in many countries. So buying one you have already broken the law (even if it genuine) and there could be an argument that it will increase the amount of touting because people wouldn't be put off by possibility of getting a fake.
Its a bit like having drug testing at festivals, you have to acknowledge there will be widespread drug taking, so harm reduction argument says should test to ensure people have bought what they think they have. The counter-argument is that it encourages people to try drugs as they can get them tested as "safe".
Personally it seems crazy in this day and age you can't check the validity of a ticket for sport /gigs. Its not a difficult thing to do technically.
The new systems for gig tickets are all electronic - you can sell tickets back and transfer them - all online. When you get to the venue, you have a changing (usual rotating crypto stuff) QR code in an app that links to the backend servers via the door guys scanners.
At the end of May 2022, the 90-day deadline set by Russian law for a "special military operation in Ukraine" expires. Therefore, those soldiers who arrived in Ukraine in February have grounds to "legally" leave the service. https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1530888435644346368
From what I have been reading elsewhere, the Russians are not stopping those who want to leave the Armed Forces based on the law.
I think that's correct. They'll strongly discourage them, but there have been reported cases where those whose terms are up have persisted and got out. Of course should it become significant numbers...
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
I had a surreal experience in Ma'reb. Sleeping under the stars on the edge of the Empty Quarter as mile-long smuggling convoys drove by the police HQ unhindered, as Karma Cameleon wafted in the air. This was January 1984, just 4 months after its release in the UK.
PS Best time to see Sana'a was at night during Ramadan. All the businesses closed all day, opened all night. Got to see all the amazing architecture, the Suuq, the spices, the energy and activity, without noticing the trash so much.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!
Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
I’m sitting in an Old Town restaurant about to having hot soup dumplings - khinkali; the square outside is packed with people listening to a small festival of local music. Most of it seems boring quasi-Arabic/Persian wailing quarter toned stuff but the odd ensemble is brilliant
I have ordered two famous Georgian sauces, Adjika and Tkemali
No, I have no idea either
It’s fab being in a place where so much is new and bewildering
Don't make a mess with the khinkali. And don't use a knife and fork.
I watched a YouTube vid first. Aced it
I did my research first in too.
It's worth having a sulphur bath if you have time to kill in Tibs
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
I never saw Sana’a. Sob. Too late now
At least I saw Palmyra
The Georgians have learned from our mistakes. They are slowly doing up the Old Town of Tbilisi, street by street. Trying to save every building, and every ornate balcony.
Those that cannot be saved they are rebuilding in EXACTLY the same style. No twatty modern architects here, trying to make a “personal statement”. Well done Tbilisi Old Town
But if you want to see it with lashings of its old untouched flavour, come now
I had a visa, 20-odd years ago. Sadly never got there - the pipeline project got canned when the mad old Turkmenbashi decided he wanted US$500m upfront....
It reminds me very strongly of Old Prague just after the wall came down. 1992? A superb old town - unexampled, really - but full of badly decaying yet marvellous old buildings from the Austro-Hungarian empire, fucked by communism but essentially wonderful. A miracle of survival
No one got poor buying old Prague properties in the 90s.
First came the artists. The exact same is happening here
How are you liking the Georgian food? I ate at a Georgian restaurant my last night in Baku, with someone who lived in Tbilisi for a couple of years. Interesting, very different from other cuisines I know, including Turkish, Persian and Azerbaijani.
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
LOL You're clearly not framing your questions correctly.
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.
They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS
Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance
Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April
Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
It's borrowing, isn't it? We haven't had a fiscally neutral budget in decades.
And inflation is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting through fiscal drag and increased profits…..I wonder if they are 100% upset about it…
That was clearly part of the plan- stealthily increase the tax take by fiscal drag, then noisily return some of it just before the next election. Tapdance over the fact that 19% of more is a bigger bill than 20% of less.
What has messed that up is the sheer amount of fiscal drag at 10% inflation. It's one thing to blow the bloody doors off...
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
So why don't you stay ?
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
One problem with that is the authorities effectively acknowledging widespread ticket touting which for football is illegal in many countries. So buying one you have already broken the law (even if it genuine) and there could be an argument that it will increase the amount of touting because people wouldn't be put off by possibility of getting a fake.
Its a bit like having drug testing at festivals, you have to acknowledge there will be widespread drug taking, so harm reduction argument says should test to ensure people have bought what they think they have. The counter-argument is that it encourages people to try drugs as they can get them tested as "safe".
Personally it seems crazy in this day and age you can't check the validity of a ticket for sport /gigs. Its not a difficult thing to do technically.
The new systems for gig tickets are all electronic - you can sell tickets back and transfer them - all online. When you get to the venue, you have a changing (usual rotating crypto stuff) QR code in an app that links to the backend servers via the door guys scanners.
Kick off times are a big difference. With a concert you generally don't have half the people wanting to get in within 30 mins of each other.
40% of the loyal membership wants him to resign is extraordinary high and justified his mps giving him his marching orders for the good of the party and country
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
One problem with that is the authorities effectively acknowledging widespread ticket touting which for football is illegal in many countries. So buying one you have already broken the law (even if it genuine) and there could be an argument that it will increase the amount of touting because people wouldn't be put off by possibility of getting a fake.
Its a bit like having drug testing at festivals, you have to acknowledge there will be widespread drug taking, so harm reduction argument says should test to ensure people have bought what they think they have. The counter-argument is that it encourages people to try drugs as they can get them tested as "safe".
Personally it seems crazy in this day and age you can't check the validity of a ticket for sport /gigs. Its not a difficult thing to do technically.
The new systems for gig tickets are all electronic - you can sell tickets back and transfer them - all online. When you get to the venue, you have a changing (usual rotating crypto stuff) QR code in an app that links to the backend servers via the door guys scanners.
I know thats true in the ticketmaster eco-system. I was just looking at some big events on viagogo and being offered physical tickets. And at least pre-covid even "e-tickets" could be printed off and that is what the touts sold, which as a member of the public you can't check.
From memory viagogo e-tickets were also just people uploading the pdf.
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.
Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
From each according to his ability (to pay) - it's very socialist really.
As long as it scales with assets and income... Your speeding ticket might seem a little steep if it costs 15% of your total monthly revenue.
They actually did that for a while back in the 80s/early 90s and stopped it because of the perceived injustice (unit based fines)
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
I'm still not convinced Johnson goes this year even if he loses 2/3 by elections and think the biggest moment of danger for him is after the May 2023 locals like it was for May in 2019.
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
So why don't you stay ?
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
Don’t be ridiculous. This is far too obvious for me. The artists are ALREADY HERE
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
So why don't you stay ?
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
Don’t be ridiculous. This is far too obvious for me. The artists are ALREADY HERE
I’m thinking: Abkhazia
Bald and Bankrupt has already done it with great vim and less dribbling on about sauce.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
I am surprisingly keen to know which PB-er liked this cretinously philistine comment, thereby revealing themselves to have an IQ of 7
You can see who has liked comments, you just need to be on a desktop. Or switch your phone browser to desktop mode if it has it. That's on Vanilla mind.
You can save yourself time looking it up because that would be me, although I note there is another now. And yes that could look lovely and it is nice to see original stuff rather than some boring new stuff. Some stuff from the 60/70s is ghastly, but Richard makes a very good point. It is easy from your privileged position to marvel at it but the people who are living there probably don't think so compared to what you have and it is easy for you to admire it and then go home to central heating, air conditioning, modern electrics and plumbing. Richard is also right that you can find old dilapidated stuff in the UK that nobody has any interest in restoring that until an area gets gentrified.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
So why don't you stay ?
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
Don’t be ridiculous. This is far too obvious for me. The artists are ALREADY HERE
So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?
And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?
If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?
Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.
The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?
Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
At the Euro final there were far more people trying to get in without a ticket at all than a fake ticket. A lot of the people causing the problems are not able to afford £2k per ticket from the touts (whether real or not). The stadia for these big finals are going to have to have a perimeter more like 250-500m from the stadium rather than 50-100m from the stadium.
Maybe even have a hash number on each ticket and a website where fans can check. Or just allocate more tickets to the finalists and not to clubs who never made it. There are lots of ways we can brainstorm and a lot of cleverer people than us are no doubt available for hire. But while authorities get away with blaming fans, there will be no pressure for change. Trouble is, some of what has already been done by government to stop scalping arguably makes things worse.
Every major sports event has far greater demand than supply. Genuine question, why were fake tickets such an issue for this game and why for only one of the teams?
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
OK. I retract. Remove "anyone". Insert "anyone normal".
"Taking part in one of our direct action events to change an illegal sign to metric is great fun. You can come along to one of these events and either join in or watch.
Training will be given on how to remove illegal metric signs and how to replace them with perfectly legal signs in miles, yards, feet and inches. Equipment will be provided.
This work is neither dangerous, nor illegal. Go to our Campaigns page for further information."
Now, if those were statues, we would have heard of this many, many times from the PBTories ...
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
40% of the loyal membership wants him to resign is extraordinary high and justified his mps giving him his marching orders for the good of the party and country
Yeah. I think HY posted it to say "ah look, he still has support". Yeah, and Thatcher won the first round as well...
I must say, this sort of thingh from Mr Sunak* is not going to go down well in the countryside, or make any more convincing the whining from the Tory and business opposition to giving more Welsh second homes the same council tax as everyone else pays.
* Edit: irrrespective of the expedience of a quick and dirty solution. And it needs only a few reports of grasping landlords and the coin in the slot meters to go even sourer.
I'm still not convinced Johnson goes this year even if he loses 2/3 by elections and think the biggest moment of danger for him is after the May 2023 locals like it was for May in 2019.
Except the Tories will likely make gains in the local elections next year given they only got 28% NEV in May's final local elections in 2019
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
I take your cationing me better if you weren’t shockingly factually wrong 🙂
Neither police or Gray fully investigated ABBA party.
I didn't use the word fully and my point remains
Beware of voter fatigue
And my point remains, when you lose a woolly it starts with that teeny strand, with number ten removing “music was heard” from the report the opposition have that little strand and pulling on it. Big G, the 6 in 10 voters who want Boris gone now will love his cover up to unravel, and whoop at every sexy reveal of flesh certainly coming now.
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
John Redwood as PM would be a dream for the opposition in my opinion.
So, what's your call right now? Is it more likely than not he survives to fight the GE? Or more likely than not he doesn't?
Depends how bad the polling gets, if the Tories lose both by elections on 23rd June or not and if a potential alternative leader polls better than him v Starmer
"The Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill This effectively grants immunity from prosecution in relation to violent crimes during the Troubles."
You seem to be missing the point that this had already been granted for one side (or rather 2 sides - the opposing terrorists) of the conflict at the time of the Good Friday Agreement. To claim that this is somehow undermining the rule of law now when you have been content to let this situation exist for the last 20 years or more seems either incredibly ignorant or incredibly hypocritical.
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
John Redwood as PM would be a dream for the opposition in my opinion.
Maybe but he would still get at least 2 years as PM to run a pure Thatcherite government. He is also extremely intelligent, far more so than Boris or Starmer for that matter
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
John Redwood as PM would be a dream for the opposition in my opinion.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
I am surprisingly keen to know which PB-er liked this cretinously philistine comment, thereby revealing themselves to have an IQ of 7
You can see who has liked comments, you just need to be on a desktop. Or switch your phone browser to desktop mode if it has it. That's on Vanilla mind.
You can save yourself time looking it up because that would be me, although I note there is another now. And yes that could look lovely and it is nice to see original stuff rather than some boring new stuff. Some stuff from the 60/70s is ghastly, but Richard makes a very good point. It is easy from your privileged position to marvel at it but the people who are living there probably don't think so compared to what you have and it is easy for you to admire it and then go home to central heating, air conditioning, modern electrics and plumbing. Richard is also right that you can find old dilapidated stuff in the UK that nobody has any interest in restoring that until an area gets gentrified.
@Luckyguy1983 sorry I was replying to leon not you obviously.
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
OK. I retract. Remove "anyone". Insert "anyone normal".
"Taking part in one of our direct action events to change an illegal sign to metric is great fun. You can come along to one of these events and either join in or watch.
Training will be given on how to remove illegal metric signs and how to replace them with perfectly legal signs in miles, yards, feet and inches. Equipment will be provided.
This work is neither dangerous, nor illegal. Go to our Campaigns page for further information."
Now, if those were statues, we would have heard of this many, many times from the PBTories ...
That's an interpretation of "great fun" I hadn't considered before.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
So why don't you stay ?
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
Don’t be ridiculous. This is far too obvious for me. The artists are ALREADY HERE
I’m thinking: Abkhazia
Bald and Bankrupt has already done it with great vim and less dribbling on about sauce.
Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!” https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
You have missed the point of populism! It is to consolidate the power of the new elite by appealing to ordinary folk that their concerns are not addressed by the old elite.
This is very true. But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
OK. I retract. Remove "anyone". Insert "anyone normal".
"Taking part in one of our direct action events to change an illegal sign to metric is great fun. You can come along to one of these events and either join in or watch.
Training will be given on how to remove illegal metric signs and how to replace them with perfectly legal signs in miles, yards, feet and inches. Equipment will be provided.
This work is neither dangerous, nor illegal. Go to our Campaigns page for further information."
Now, if those were statues, we would have heard of this many, many times from the PBTories ...
To be fair, whilst I think it is all rather silly, the statues were not illegal. The signage is. Whether it should be is another matter entirely. But there is clearly a difference between damaging something that is legal and correcting something that is currently illegal.
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
I take your cationing me better if you weren’t shockingly factually wrong 🙂
Neither police or Gray fully investigated ABBA party.
I didn't use the word fully and my point remains
Beware of voter fatigue
And my point remains, when you lose a woolly it starts with that teeny strand, with number ten removing “music was heard” from the report the opposition have that little strand and pulling on it. Big G, the 6 in 10 voters who want Boris gone now will love his cover up to unravel, and whoop at every sexy reveal of flesh certainly coming now.
51% yesterday said it is a distraction and that is up 8%
Of course some want to continue the issue but already over half see it as a distraction
The lesson I am taking from Australia is you don't have to generate a wave of enthusiasm to win. Indeed Labor went backwards. You just have to be better than the opponent. Like 2005 and 2010 I guess.
Wrong Lesson if it don’t mention the teal impact on outgoing government
That's part of the lesson though isn't it? No one rushed to the polls to elect Labor. They did to unseat the coalition. It wasn't just teal either. There are parallels to be drawn here when folk say Labour isn't doing well enough in local elections. They don't have to if the Tories are doing awfully. And other Parties are doing very well. As they are.
Okay, I’ll except your post in the hypothetical rather than proven comparison with UK politics, but will raise you a further hypothetical comparison, the flee in voters was from both main Aussie party’s, look at labours 1pp %, so a bit French style?
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
I take your cationing me better if you weren’t shockingly factually wrong 🙂
Neither police or Gray fully investigated ABBA party.
I didn't use the word fully and my point remains
Beware of voter fatigue
And my point remains, when you lose a woolly it starts with that teeny strand, with number ten removing “music was heard” from the report the opposition have that little strand and pulling on it. Big G, the 6 in 10 voters who want Boris gone now will love his cover up to unravel, and whoop at every sexy reveal of flesh certainly coming now.
51% yesterday said it is a distraction and that is up 8%
Of course some want to continue the issue but already over half see it as a distraction
What price principle?
It seems the Tories have none beyond staying in power no matter what the cost.
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
John Redwood as PM would be a dream for the opposition in my opinion.
Maybe but he would still get at least 2 years as PM to run a pure Thatcherite government. He is also extremely intelligent, far more so than Boris or Starmer for that matter
I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. However with regard to your last post how do you know he is more intelligent? I don't think there is any obvious way of telling. Boris and Starmer are both clearly quite bright. Also intelligence comes in many forms and I would say he definitely does not have emotional intelligence whereas Boris and Starmer clearly do have more.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I thought Tories were meant to approve of making money. My god you could make so much money here in Tbilisi property. It is at that perfect point. The kids and the artists are already colonising: tiny boutiques, little studios, avocado toast & bubble tea cafes.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
So why don't you stay ?
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
You’re being rather unpleasant
@Leon is enjoying his holiday and I, for one, am enjoying his observations
So, what's your call right now? Is it more likely than not he survives to fight the GE? Or more likely than not he doesn't?
Depends how bad the polling gets, if the Tories lose both by elections on 23rd June or not and if a potential alternative leader polls better than him v Starmer
Indeed. But I'm looking at backing it now at 6/5 - him to lead into the GE - so I'm doing some due diligence (inc getting your trenches view) before I lump. Think I'm going to do it. It's just no small matter to ditch a sitting PM who won you a big majority last time and who simply will not resign under any circumstances. 6/5? Yep. More than fair. I'm doing it.
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
John Redwood as PM would be a dream for the opposition in my opinion.
There'll be no end of wacky Redwood tweets and articles for them to emblazon across election posters. Of course, no one was much bothered with all that in recent years when he was seen as just an eccentric museum piece, but as Tory leader...
Fourth comment is pushing the claims of John Redwood. Oh pretty please!
PM Redwood could be a dark horse, he would stand as the candidate to return the party to pure Thatcherism as he did against Major in 1995 if he stood. However the membership did not get a say then, now they do. In the unlikely event he got to the final 2 with MPs after Boris lost a VONC then Redwood could win the membership on a pure Thatcherite, hard Brexit platform and become the new PM
John Redwood as PM would be a dream for the opposition in my opinion.
Maybe but he would still get at least 2 years as PM to run a pure Thatcherite government. He is also extremely intelligent, far more so than Boris or Starmer for that matter
Presumably his first act would be to remove the cash Rishi just promised folk. That would be off to a flyer, then.
There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
If you saw streets like that in England would you think it fantastic ?
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
With that authentic 18th-19th century ornate woodwork and cast iron glazed balconies and original facades - echoing a vernacular which has lasted for centuries, and has miraculously survived as part of an intact Old Town, elements of which date back - literally - to the 6th century?
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
Did the rotting plaster and 1950s pipes get you even more excited ?
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
I love Goole docks - even had a feature published once about them. It's 21st century ships calling at 20th century gunmetal warehouses built on 19th century foundations.
I've never dared venture into the Macintosh Arms though.
@Leon's lower Tbilisi pic genuinely reminded me a bit of the back streets of Burslem.
Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done
“It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication. It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”
If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?
I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today
If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.
But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.
It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.
If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she
I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction
I take your cationing me better if you weren’t shockingly factually wrong 🙂
Neither police or Gray fully investigated ABBA party.
I didn't use the word fully and my point remains
Beware of voter fatigue
And my point remains, when you lose a woolly it starts with that teeny strand, with number ten removing “music was heard” from the report the opposition have that little strand and pulling on it. Big G, the 6 in 10 voters who want Boris gone now will love his cover up to unravel, and whoop at every sexy reveal of flesh certainly coming now.
51% yesterday said it is a distraction and that is up 8%
Of course some want to continue the issue but already over half see it as a distraction
What price principle?
It seems the Tories have none beyond staying in power no matter what the cost.
The key is public perception which on Boris is already guilty and his mps need to remove him
Raining in Monaco. Cool and damp here too. Have a roaring fire going whilst I wonder how much of this I get to watch before turning over for the Indy 500.
Comments
I am shocked that criminality is happening here. Also can I have my winnings on account to save carrying them?
But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS
It’s fantastic
At least I saw Palmyra
The Georgians have learned from our mistakes. They are slowly doing up the Old Town of Tbilisi, street by street. Trying to save every building, and every ornate balcony.
Those that cannot be saved they are rebuilding in EXACTLY the same style. No twatty modern architects here, trying to make a “personal statement”. Well done Tbilisi Old Town
But if you want to see it with lashings of its old untouched flavour, come now
In fact you can - there are plenty of old industrial buildings not far from town centres which have been waiting for redevelopment for decades.
Of course I would think it is “fantastic” you fucking moron
No one rushed to the polls to elect Labor. They did to unseat the coalition. It wasn't just teal either.
There are parallels to be drawn here when folk say Labour isn't doing well enough in local elections. They don't have to if the Tories are doing awfully. And other Parties are doing very well.
As they are.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1530888435644346368
Its a bit like having drug testing at festivals, you have to acknowledge there will be widespread drug taking, so harm reduction argument says should test to ensure people have bought what they think they have. The counter-argument is that it encourages people to try drugs as they can get them tested as "safe".
Personally it seems crazy in this day and age you can't check the validity of a ticket for sport /gigs. Its not a difficult thing to do technically.
No one got poor buying old Prague properties in the 90s.
First came the artists. The exact same is happening here
I got a nearly "too good to be true" (they were basically halfway and low down for sold out game for below face value) set of tickets for NFL London game a few years ago and was bricking it right up to the entry that I might have got fakes. Turns out they were legit and somebody really was just forced to sell them.
But congrats you've travelled to the Caucasus to see disintegrating Georgian and Victorian buildings.
I suppose if it had a canal running between the buildings instead of a dusty side street you might convince yourself you were in Venice before mass tourism.
But it doesn't so its a dusty side street with disintegrating buildings.
Plenty of original features here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7012641,-0.8694817,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDFDsdcZ2C9q8fYTtb5DdTg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Its by Goole docks.
They'll strongly discourage them, but there have been reported cases where those whose terms are up have persisted and got out.
Of course should it become significant numbers...
Neither police or Gray fully investigated ABBA party.
Just written a 2 hour exam on the Madhyamaka-Prasangika view of emptiness.
Simplified heavily here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svatantrika–Prasaṅgika_distinction
Need a lie down.
PS Best time to see Sana'a was at night during Ramadan. All the businesses closed all day, opened all night. Got to see all the amazing architecture, the Suuq, the spices, the energy and activity, without noticing the trash so much.
It is a Caucasian Shoreditch in 1996
No doubt @BartholomewRoberts would knock it all down to build large estates of tiny red brick semis with ample parking
It's worth having a sulphur bath if you have time to kill in Tibs
But it doesn't negate the point that I've yet to find anyone whose top 100 concerns include not enough use of Imperial measures
What has messed that up is the sheer amount of fiscal drag at 10% inflation. It's one thing to blow the bloody doors off...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-61596817
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2022/05/two-in-five-of-our-party-members-panel-thinks-that-johnson-should-resign-and-hhalf-dont.html
You've got the time and money to invest and would enjoy dealing with the local gangsters and corrupt politicians.
You might even make yourself one of the leaders of the local cultural set.
Isn't it what you fancied doing in Camden in the 1980s ?
From memory viagogo e-tickets were also just people uploading the pdf.
Insert "anyone normal".
Beware of voter fatigue
I’m thinking: Abkhazia
This is Gordon Brown all over again
Oh pretty please!
https://oc-media.org/app/uploads/2021/04/summer_season_in_Abkhazia_RU_cover-16-04-21.jpg
Training will be given on how to remove illegal metric signs and how to replace them with perfectly legal signs in miles, yards, feet and inches. Equipment will be provided.
This work is neither dangerous, nor illegal. Go to our Campaigns page for further information."
Now, if those were statues, we would have heard of this many, many times from the PBTories ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/29/400-second-home-owners-fuel-bills-whistable-kent-seaside-chancellor-payout
I must say, this sort of thingh from Mr Sunak* is not going to go down well in the countryside, or make any more convincing the whining from the Tory and business opposition to giving more Welsh second homes the same council tax as everyone else pays.
* Edit: irrrespective of the expedience of a quick and dirty solution. And it needs only a few reports of grasping landlords and the coin in the slot meters to go even sourer.
"The Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill This effectively grants immunity from prosecution in relation to violent crimes during the Troubles."
You seem to be missing the point that this had already been granted for one side (or rather 2 sides - the opposing terrorists) of the conflict at the time of the Good Friday Agreement. To claim that this is somehow undermining the rule of law now when you have been content to let this situation exist for the last 20 years or more seems either incredibly ignorant or incredibly hypocritical.
Of course some want to continue the issue but already over half see it as a distraction
It seems the Tories have none beyond staying in power no matter what the cost.
At least they don't make the sports events run on time
@Leon is enjoying his holiday and I, for one, am enjoying his observations
That would be off to a flyer, then.
I've never dared venture into the Macintosh Arms though.
@Leon's lower Tbilisi pic genuinely reminded me a bit of the back streets of Burslem.