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In Other News …… – politicalbetting.com

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  • Labour MPs forcing Blair out is one of the biggest strategic errors of the 2000s. Poor, poor, poor
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I think it’s actually damaging. With all the other things going on the government think this is important?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,772

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798
    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Now if only they could raise London traffic speeds back to the days of the horse and cart they would get my vote!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    dixiedean said:

    The lesson I am taking from Australia is you don't have to generate a wave of enthusiasm to win. Indeed Labor went backwards. You just have to be better than the opponent.
    Like 2005 and 2010 I guess.

    Wrong Lesson if it don’t mention the teal impact on outgoing government
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done

    “It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication.
    It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”

    If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-boris-johnson-faces-despot-charge-over-cover-up-claims-12623349
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,336
    edited May 2022
    DavidL said:

    LDLF said:

    Most Prime Ministers were not 'Good Chaps', in fact I would go so far as to say that all 'Good Chap' PMs fall in the 'moderate-to-crap' category.

    Walpole, the very first PM, must have been a sneaky bastard to survive as long as he did in the post. The highest-achieving Prime Minister of the 20th Century was probably David Lloyd George, whose corruption and personal moral failings make Boris Johnson look saintly by comparison.

    I think the political and media bubble (for want of a better term) is more and more inclined to frenzy - every government, for as long as I have been politically aware, has been accused of unprecedented acts of cruelty and stupidity daily, and has been compared to a dictatorship. I fear it is in the nature of government to be dysfunctional - the advantage we have in a democracy is that we know about it.

    The facts of the 'elective dictatorship' remain the same: the government can do more or less what it wants as long as it has a majority in the House of Commons. Attempts by Parliament to control the government during the 2017-19 parliament were disastrous - the alternative and better solution is rather for Parliament to elect a Prime Minister of whom it better approves, and, as Cyclefree says, we are still waiting.

    Pretty much what I said at 9.04 this morning. Boris is a lying shit of a PM. It really does not make him stand out from the rest.
    I'm surprised at you. Your attempts to argue that Boris is no worse than his predecessors when it comes to lying flies in the face of all the evidence, both current and historic.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Yes, but it probably won't happen, any more than the last three(?) times it's been announced.

    It's just a silly announcement to the make the mouths of the usual suspects water, like Pavlov's dogs.

    And if it were ever to be enacted, Boris would need to find another stunt to do the same thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I think it’s actually damaging. With all the other things going on the government think this is important?
    Surely it’s one of the reasons Johnson feels it’s morally incumbent on him not to resign, in order to see the job through…. ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    There isn’t a grain of truth in it, as anyone with an ounce of common sense can see.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Now if only they could raise London traffic speeds back to the days of the horse and cart they would get my vote!
    Carts had speedometers then?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,772
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
    I can't fathom what they are doing. At this rate Labour will be leagues ahead.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,346

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I quite like the policy, but they'll have to put in the hard yards and come up woth a few solutions to real issues too.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,336
    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    There isn’t a grain of truth in it, as anyone with an ounce of common sense can see.
    There you go again, shilling for the opposition.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The return of imperial weights and measures-this makes John Major’s cones hot line look like a master stroke of far-sighted statesmanship.

    https://twitter.com/SirSocks/status/1530868521219018752

    The cones hotline - much derided though it was/is, was a good idea - injecting the idea of accountability into an inscrutable impenetrable bureaucracy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    DavidL said:

    LDLF said:

    Most Prime Ministers were not 'Good Chaps', in fact I would go so far as to say that all 'Good Chap' PMs fall in the 'moderate-to-crap' category.

    Walpole, the very first PM, must have been a sneaky bastard to survive as long as he did in the post. The highest-achieving Prime Minister of the 20th Century was probably David Lloyd George, whose corruption and personal moral failings make Boris Johnson look saintly by comparison.

    I think the political and media bubble (for want of a better term) is more and more inclined to frenzy - every government, for as long as I have been politically aware, has been accused of unprecedented acts of cruelty and stupidity daily, and has been compared to a dictatorship. I fear it is in the nature of government to be dysfunctional - the advantage we have in a democracy is that we know about it.

    The facts of the 'elective dictatorship' remain the same: the government can do more or less what it wants as long as it has a majority in the House of Commons. Attempts by Parliament to control the government during the 2017-19 parliament were disastrous - the alternative and better solution is rather for Parliament to elect a Prime Minister of whom it better approves, and, as Cyclefree says, we are still waiting.

    Pretty much what I said at 9.04 this morning. Boris is a lying shit of a PM. It really does not make him stand out from the rest.
    I'm surprised at you. Your attempts to argue that Boris is no worse than his predecessors when it comes to lying flies in the face of all the evidence, both current and historic.
    I gave his comment a like, though it would have been more accurate had it said ‘it does make him stand out from the rest’.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I quite like the policy, but they'll have to put in the hard yards and come up woth a few solutions to real issues too.
    'hard yard' an unfortunate expression, given the nostalgia for archaism to which Mr Johnson is pandering.

    BTW I was recently reading an old deed and trying to work out if it was for the same plot as I had in mind. The dimensions were given in rods, poles *and* perches - completely ambiguous as to whether they were linear or areal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,958
    edited May 2022

    Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done

    “It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication.
    It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”

    If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-boris-johnson-faces-despot-charge-over-cover-up-claims-12623349

    I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today

    If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BREAKING:

    Poland has donated 18 of its most modern AHS Krab self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine.

    Poland has also trained 100 Ukrainian artillerymen to operate these howitzers.

    Following the 6 Caesar SPGs donated by France, Ukraine now has at least 24 Western SPGs.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1530869262834860032?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Now if only they could raise London traffic speeds back to the days of the horse and cart they would get my vote!
    Carts had speedometers then?
    Speedometers? Another unnecessary modern invention, perhaps the back to the 1950s party party can get rid of those too.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    edited May 2022

    CONSERVATIVE MP FOR BASSETLAW: "We can joke about Partygate now we've got away with it"

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1530864110027563009

    Interesting position for this MP to take, his seat is gone on current polls

    You are wrong Horse. And nothing in capital letters please I’ve got a hang over.

    On battleground wipe out poll where all but 3 seats were lost, Bassetlaw was one which survived.

    They’ve lost it after this now though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Now if only they could raise London traffic speeds back to the days of the horse and cart they would get my vote!
    Carts had speedometers then?
    Speedometers? Another unnecessary modern invention, perhaps the back to the 1950s party party can get rid of those too.
    Abigail's Party to add to Get Carter as an inspirational film?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    Is the reporting correct that the £400 grants are also being given to owners of air bnbs, per home?

    Is Labours claim Rishi’s splurge (as the mail described it) was so poorly targeted in fact a rubbish claim From Labour - on basis it was actually beautifully targeted at the multi property owning voter demographic the Tories need to shore up?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/29/400-second-home-owners-fuel-bills-whistable-kent-seaside-chancellor-payout
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I quite like the policy, but they'll have to put in the hard yards and come up woth a few solutions to real issues too.
    'hard yard' an unfortunate expression, given the nostalgia for archaism to which Mr Johnson is pandering.

    BTW I was recently reading an old deed and trying to work out if it was for the same plot as I had in mind. The dimensions were given in rods, poles *and* perches - completely ambiguous as to whether they were linear or areal.
    That's the problem the government has.

    From an economic growth point of view, it's obviously a silly idea. Having one set of standards is clearly right, and most of the population would prefer that to be metric.

    From an emotional point of view, there's a chunk of the population who prefer the old ways. And because of their age, that cohort are less bothered by the need for economic efficiency and growth. Same as their opposition to new housing or WFH.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    We spent a full f**king week being transphobes in parliament and then we spent weeks during the campaign doing the exact same thing, and it was fucking insane,' an MP says. 'The transphobe thing was an absolute disaster.

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1530839410777923585

    There are some tories on here who seem to have convinced themselves that banging on about the definition of a woman is the cheat code to winning the next GE.
    Yes they have and they are wrong. Most people just don’t care about woke issues. It troubles people at either extreme.

    Cost of living and the upcoming recession will be the main issues I expect. I have said that several times to people like Leon but they think Culture wars are a winner.
    To be fair to Leon, my understanding of his position is that he is anti woke not for shallow electoral purposes but because he genuinely thinks it is an existential threat to Western civilisation.
    I do.

    More narrowly, I don’t believe it can win an election by itself. But it can help
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    CONSERVATIVE MP FOR BASSETLAW: "We can joke about Partygate now we've got away with it"

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1530864110027563009

    Interesting position for this MP to take, his seat is gone on current polls

    You are wrong Horse. And nothing in capital letters please I’ve got a hang over.

    On battleground wipe out poll where all but 3 seats were lost, Bassetlaw was one which survived.

    They’ve lost it after this now though.
    The words in quotes are not anything the MP said, they are the twatterer's gloss
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955

    I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today

    If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him

    Yes. The problem with backing him is there will be another career ending* scandal along in a minute...

    *for anyone with a shred of shame or honour
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
    I can't fathom what they are doing. At this rate Labour will be leagues ahead.
    Tories suffering death by a thousand pecks....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
    I can't fathom what they are doing. At this rate Labour will be leagues ahead.
    Tories suffering death by a thousand pecks....
    And all for the lack of any scruple.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    BREAKING:

    Poland has donated 18 of its most modern AHS Krab self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine.

    Poland has also trained 100 Ukrainian artillerymen to operate these howitzers.

    Following the 6 Caesar SPGs donated by France, Ukraine now has at least 24 Western SPGs.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1530869262834860032?

    The 🇫🇷 CAESARs were modified to plug into the 🇺🇦 BMS. I would expect similar modifications to be made to the 🇳🇱 PhZ 2000s to make the most out of these platforms. Same for the M109 that have apparently turned up.
    https://twitter.com/JakOSpades/status/1530867638997504002
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done

    “It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication.
    It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”

    If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-boris-johnson-faces-despot-charge-over-cover-up-claims-12623349

    I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today

    If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
    I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.

    But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.

    It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.

    If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,556
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    What is happening to the Uighurs is certainly a genocide, as I have said before - see this article from December 2019 -http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/12/09/lets-talk-about-islamophobia/.

    But I used the word "war" for 2 reasons: the material just released shows the use of army battalions to crush the Uighurs and it is also how Uighur representatives have described it - as a war on their people and culture by the Chinese State.

    I find the claims of "Never Again" which get trotted out at regular intervals on memorial days increasingly hollow.

    "Again and Again" would be more accurate.

    Pretty well what Zelensky has said in relation to the Russian attempt to wipe out Ukraine.
    I think we do need different words for "trying to wipe out a culture" and "trying to kill everyone who is part of a culture". Both are horrible, but the former tends to involve censorship and "forced reeducation", while the latter involves mass murder on an industrial scale. Genocide is for many people associated with the latter - specifically with the Nazi attempt to kill every single Jewish person - and using it about stopping people from practicing their culture is an unhelpful analogy which both downgrades the Holocaust (which really wasn't mainly about closing synagogues and persecuting anyone practising Judaism) and undermines the current crimes (because it sounds exaggerated).

    It feels awkward, even suspicious, to try to distinguish levels of horror, but being clear what we mean is important. Calling the Uighur oppression "a war on an entire culture" feels the right phrase, and entirely wicked in itself.
    In Excession, IIRC, the late great Iain M Banks had a Ship which specialised in tracking genocides and other crimes and then inflicting the experience into the mind of those responsible until their hearts gave out and they died. It was a nice conceit and surely would be an appropriate penalty for Xi. A monster of a man, the worst since Mao.
    Your hero George Osborne still waves the pompoms for him:

    George Osborne has praised Boris Johnson for “seeing off the hotheads” in the Tory party who are calling for a more aggressive UK stance toward China.

    Osborne said he saw “a lot of continuity” between Johnson’s China policy, announced in yesterday’s integrated defence and foreign policy review, and his and David Cameron’s, which built stronger ties with Beijing.

    The government’s integrated review was criticised by Tory China hawks for not being tough enough on Beijing.


    https://www.cityam.com/george-osborne-hits-out-at-tory-hotheads-who-want-uk-china-cold-war/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
    I can't fathom what they are doing. At this rate Labour will be leagues ahead.
    Tories suffering death by a thousand pecks....
    And all for the lack of any scruple.
    Going to be a chain around their necks....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401
    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,010
    edited May 2022

    Labour MPs forcing Blair out is one of the biggest strategic errors of the 2000s. Poor, poor, poor

    I'm not so sure. I think Blair was pretty stale and out of touch (or, less charitably, a narcisstic megalomaniac) by 2007. The financial crisis would have discredited him completely and the Iraq thing would have clung to him more and more.

    The mistake was to have replaced him with a dud like Brown. That the Conservatives had picked the uninspiring Heir to Blair David Cameron may have been the only thing that prevented a complete Labour wipeout in 2010.

    But all speculation, of course, we'll never know.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Leon said:

    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes

    It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!

    Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    IshmaelZ said:

    CONSERVATIVE MP FOR BASSETLAW: "We can joke about Partygate now we've got away with it"

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1530864110027563009

    Interesting position for this MP to take, his seat is gone on current polls

    You are wrong Horse. And nothing in capital letters please I’ve got a hang over.

    On battleground wipe out poll where all but 3 seats were lost, Bassetlaw was one which survived.

    They’ve lost it after this now though.
    The words in quotes are not anything the MP said, they are the twatterer's gloss
    Does that actually matter, if he has to come to mic/Twitter to clarify what actually said?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    This post, taken out of context, is a PB keeper 😄
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes

    It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!

    Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
    I’m sitting in an Old Town restaurant about to having hot soup dumplings - khinkali; the square outside is packed with people listening to a small festival of local music. Most of it seems boring quasi-Arabic/Persian wailing quarter toned stuff but the odd ensemble is brilliant

    I have ordered two famous Georgian sauces, Adjika and Tkemali

    No, I have no idea either

    It’s fab being in a place where so much is new and bewildering
  • Heathener said:

    Okay I've checked back:

    On that note, rumours going around that one of the papers has polls for both byelections, done by NCPolitics mostly after Sue Gray
    Blue team are getting absolutely hammered in Wakefield (much much worse than YouGov's general election model says). Votes going all over the place. David H (formerly of this parish) apparently getting a few. Overall not even close
    But Tiverton is close and sliding towards the LDems
    Voters told the poll they’re livid about the photos, Tories getting theirs out to vote is going to be a big problem for them

    Update: Apparently it's for one of the dailies, so not out tonight
    I don't believe the one about Tiverton & Honiton. It doesn't fit imho.
    Go there. See for yourself.
    There's an even easier way: ask the pollster. Bet you he doesn't deny it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.

    Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,958
    edited May 2022

    Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done

    “It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication.
    It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”

    If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-boris-johnson-faces-despot-charge-over-cover-up-claims-12623349

    I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today

    If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
    I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.

    But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.

    It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.

    If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
    Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she

    I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction

    Voter fatigue may well become apparent

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1530614438147117056?t=ItiVA37-ZwixPmbxAgU5Ng&s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done

    “It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication.
    It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”

    If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-boris-johnson-faces-despot-charge-over-cover-up-claims-12623349

    I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today

    If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
    I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.

    But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.

    It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.

    If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
    At this rate, as more evidence comes to light of significant failures to investigate and of ministers interfering in her “independent” report, Sue Gray will want to clear her name.
    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1530851214136590336
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,556
    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,346
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.

    Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
    From each according to his ability (to pay) - it's very socialist really.
  • The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,958
    Fishing said:

    Labour MPs forcing Blair out is one of the biggest strategic errors of the 2000s. Poor, poor, poor

    I'm not so sure. I think Blair was pretty stale and out of touch (or, less charitably, a narcisstic megalomaniac) by 2007. The financial crisis would have discredited him completely and the Iraq thing would have clung to him more and more.

    The mistake was to have replaced him with a dud like Brown. That the Conservatives had picked the uninspiring Heir to Blair David Cameron may have been the only thing that prevented a complete Labour wipeout in 2010.

    But all speculation, of course, we'll never know.
    The biggest error made by labour was to elect Corbyn
  • And I question whether Labour really needs an alternative, Cameron didn't propose a solution to the GFC, just waited for Labour to lose on their own. As I said, Starmer is following his path to Downing Street
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    …Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet:
    🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr
    🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka
    🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road …

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
    I can't fathom what they are doing. At this rate Labour will be leagues ahead.
    Tories suffering death by a thousand pecks....
    It looks grim for the tories from this Perch....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484

    The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    And Labour does? Do tell....
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,178
    Fishing said:

    Labour MPs forcing Blair out is one of the biggest strategic errors of the 2000s. Poor, poor, poor

    I'm not so sure. I think Blair was pretty stale and out of touch (or, less charitably, a narcisstic megalomaniac) by 2007. The financial crisis would have discredited him completely and the Iraq thing would have clung to him more and more.

    The mistake was to have replaced him with a dud like Brown. That the Conservatives had picked the uninspiring Heir to Blair David Cameron may have been the only thing that prevented a complete Labour wipeout in 2010.

    But all speculation, of course, we'll never know.
    There’s quite a distance between “stake and out of touch” and “narcissistic megalomaniac”!
  • The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    And Labour does? Do tell....
    Labour doesn't need any. As I said above Cameron didn't have any, he just let Labour lose.

    As for Labour, as it happens they proposed the windfall tax which the Tories stole - and they want to cut VAT which I expect the Tories will also steal in time too.
  • This week we have also split out voting intention by current financial status.

    Among those who are...
    Very comfortable: Con +66
    Comfortable: Con +10
    Coping: Lab +11
    Struggling: Lab+20
    Really struggling: Lab+20

    Ah well, Labour is really the party of the rich London bubble
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    And I question whether Labour really needs an alternative, Cameron didn't propose a solution to the GFC, just waited for Labour to lose on their own. As I said, Starmer is following his path to Downing Street

    I think an opposition having an alternative can be useful, but people overestimate how necessary it is. So when people retort 'X has no answer for issue Y' it could be true, but may not itself prevent the public thinking X is still best placed.

    Indeed, many electoral victories in many countries involved people and parties deliberately being vague abotuj their intentions and plans.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,228
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.

    Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
    A little harsh on those who are 'not gildy'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.

    Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
    A little harsh on those who are 'not gildy'.
    The poor already go to prison disproportionately, so may not see much difference!

    (I had meant to include that point for the original gag).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Nigelb said:

    …Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet:
    🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr
    🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka
    🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road …

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403

    Ukrainians seem to be having a better couple of days. Here's hoping anyway.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,958
    edited May 2022

    The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS

    Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance

    Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April

    Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,235
    Nigelb said:

    …Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet:
    🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr
    🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka
    🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road …

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403

    As the Hotel Myr is apparently full of Kadyrovtsy I don't see why the Ukrainians don't just destroy it from a distance.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,556
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes

    It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!

    Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
    I’m sitting in an Old Town restaurant about to having hot soup dumplings - khinkali; the square outside is packed with people listening to a small festival of local music. Most of it seems boring quasi-Arabic/Persian wailing quarter toned stuff but the odd ensemble is brilliant

    I have ordered two famous Georgian sauces, Adjika and Tkemali

    No, I have no idea either

    It’s fab being in a place where so much is new and bewildering
    The adjika dispute between Georgia and Abkhazia is similar to the 'jam or cream on top' dispute between Devon and Cornwall.

    Abkazian ajika is now made and on sale in South Yorkshire:

    https://ajika.co.uk/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Verdict

    Khinkali are delicious. Oh yes, oh yes. You suck out the juices and then scoff the minced meat inside, leaving the “hat” - the stem of the dough

    The two sauces are also excellent, Adjeri goes well with Khinkai - chili, hot, salty in a paste - whereas Tkemali is more minty and green. Yum but not such a good accompaniment

    Anyway. Excellent start
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,235
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes

    It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!

    Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
    I’m sitting in an Old Town restaurant about to having hot soup dumplings - khinkali; the square outside is packed with people listening to a small festival of local music. Most of it seems boring quasi-Arabic/Persian wailing quarter toned stuff but the odd ensemble is brilliant

    I have ordered two famous Georgian sauces, Adjika and Tkemali

    No, I have no idea either

    It’s fab being in a place where so much is new and bewildering
    Don't make a mess with the khinkali. And don't use a knife and fork.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,651

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.

    Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
    From each according to his ability (to pay) - it's very socialist really.
    As long as it scales with assets and income... Your speeding ticket might seem a little steep if it costs 15% of your total monthly revenue.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I believe that was a strictly proletarian thing in England - their way of dealing with a failed marriage without the cruel nonsense imposed by the C of E and the upper classes who were the only ones who could afford divorces.

    (Indeed, often the 'sale' was purely nominal - the wife and new hubby had agreed already, and this was the way to makie it formally public.)

    So, not something the moral megalomaniacs and curtain-twitching oldies would approve of.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    Nigelb said:

    …Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet:
    🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr
    🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka
    🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road …

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403

    Ukrainians seem to be having a better couple of days. Here's hoping anyway.
    Yes, the Russians seem to have run out of momentum, if not artillery shells. The Ukranian offensives at Izium and at Kherson do seem to be making progress too.

    https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1530595518639915008?t=f40kpIF_d__z3vY-Q-wWyQ&s=19
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    This week we have also split out voting intention by current financial status.

    Among those who are...
    Very comfortable: Con +66
    Comfortable: Con +10
    Coping: Lab +11
    Struggling: Lab+20
    Really struggling: Lab+20

    Ah well, Labour is really the party of the rich London bubble

    Where?

    Are v comf/comf objective measures or about how you really *feel*?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes

    It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!

    Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
    I’m sitting in an Old Town restaurant about to having hot soup dumplings - khinkali; the square outside is packed with people listening to a small festival of local music. Most of it seems boring quasi-Arabic/Persian wailing quarter toned stuff but the odd ensemble is brilliant

    I have ordered two famous Georgian sauces, Adjika and Tkemali

    No, I have no idea either

    It’s fab being in a place where so much is new and bewildering
    Don't make a mess with the khinkali. And don't use a knife and fork.
    I watched a YouTube vid first. Aced it
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    Leon said:

    Verdict

    Khinkali are delicious. Oh yes, oh yes. You suck out the juices and then scoff the minced meat inside, leaving the “hat” - the stem of the dough

    The two sauces are also excellent, Adjeri goes well with Khinkai - chili, hot, salty in a paste - whereas Tkemali is more minty and green. Yum but not such a good accompaniment

    Anyway. Excellent start

    *hungry*
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Nigelb said:

    …Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet:
    🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr
    🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka
    🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road …

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403

    As the Hotel Myr is apparently full of Kadyrovtsy I don't see why the Ukrainians don't just destroy it from a distance.
    Because they'll want to use enhanced interrogation techniques to get HUMINT from them and/or swap them for Ukrainian PoWs.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    I thought the whole point of populism was to espouse policies that have at least a degree of popularity? Apart from preserving pints of beer (already the status quo) I don't think there is any support whatsoever for increased use of imperial units.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m having my first Georgian food. Here goes

    It has a general reputation for being superb. Hope so!

    Oh, and go listen to some of the male-voice choirs.
    I’m sitting in an Old Town restaurant about to having hot soup dumplings - khinkali; the square outside is packed with people listening to a small festival of local music. Most of it seems boring quasi-Arabic/Persian wailing quarter toned stuff but the odd ensemble is brilliant

    I have ordered two famous Georgian sauces, Adjika and Tkemali

    No, I have no idea either

    It’s fab being in a place where so much is new and bewildering
    The adjika dispute between Georgia and Abkhazia is similar to the 'jam or cream on top' dispute between Devon and Cornwall.

    Abkazian ajika is now made and on sale in South Yorkshire:

    https://ajika.co.uk/
    Tkemali is also fascinating (and surely older). Made from sour green unripe plums! Who knew. It’s delicious


    “a bright, zesty, sour sauce made from fresh plums, tkemali underpins many dishes in Georgia. The classic version is made from the small green unripe plums that are prevalent in Georgia. Other plums can be used, as long as they’re not overripe—their skins contain enough acidity to give the sauce its characteristic tang. Mint may not be as traditional in this sauce as cilantro and dill, but Tasting Georgia cookbook author Carla Capalbo includes it for added verve. It’s absolutely delicious with roast or grilled chicken and alongside mtsvadi, Georgian pork skewers.”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753
    edited May 2022

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Does that make her a Tory?

    Anneliese Dodds, shadow women and equalities secretary, says she disagrees with Stella Creasy over whether women can have a penis

    She tells @SophyRidgeSky 'I don't agree her. There are trans women who have made a transition in their gender. But sex is not the same as gender'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1530822452221300737

    So inflation is at 9%, utility bills and petrol prices are out of control, there’s still a war in Ukraine threatening food supplies over the summer - and the Opposition are screaming at each other about women’s penises.
    While the government is talking about bring back pounds and ounces...
    It’ll be rickets next…..

    I am old enough to have learned about pounds and ounces, and stones and hundredweights and pre-decimal currency…..and the idea is completely barking. I doubted my opinion of Johnson could fall much lower, wrong again! It’s a cheap stunt for a demographic which almost certainly couldn’t give a fiddle about the issue, which neatly encapsulates how little and how badly this government understands the country they purport to govern.
    Might get a few dozen more votes per constituency, so I can't see that it will make a ton of difference either. Perhaps a short boost in the polls but not fur long. What it does show is that if you give this government an inch they will take a mile.
    I didn't spot what you were doing there until I got to 'fur long'. Very good.
    Well, HMG is sure firkin about with this nonsense.
    No wonder the Tories' polling is dropping like a stone.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just got a glimpse of the next Conservative Manifesto and it’s a zinger !! “We intend to restore Great British Values. We are the only party committed to bringing back groats/stocks/smallpox/witch trials/pig bartering. Back to the Future!”
    https://twitter.com/shaunwkeaveny/status/1530837634494386181

    Wife-selling, as per Thos. Hardy?
    I've got a great idea fo dealign with our overburdened prison system - let's return to a system of Weregild, extended for all manner of crimes, so that we need not imprison many people.

    Sure, the poor would still need to go to prison, but it would save many others from going, and the government could take a small percentage for its coffers as well.
    From each according to his ability (to pay) - it's very socialist really.
    We’ve created a community restorative justice system, instead.

    If you read the crime maps, there are interesting crime “deserts”. Especially for certain crimes.

    Either no one shoplifts in certain areas or no one reports shoplifting.

    In fact what happens is that small shop keepers find that since the police and courts don’t deal with a problem, they do some DIY.

    So the shoplifter gets sent to A&E - which could be considered a weregild, I suppose.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191

    The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS

    Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance

    Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April

    Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
    Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753
    IshmaelZ said:

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
    Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886

    Labour MPs forcing Blair out is one of the biggest strategic errors of the 2000s. Poor, poor, poor

    Yep - and I was one of the members clear that he had to go. Two reasons:
    1. Iraq. The war was so poorly judged and the push to drive it so ham-fisted that I very nearly joined the LibDems. Iraq is the albatross that is still hung around his neck all these years later
    2. His laisse-fair "whatever works" strategy had led to them recreating the NHS internal market and increasingly sounding hard-nosed to the same poor / sick people the earlier years of givernment had been so kind to.

    I felt he had lost his way and would wander even further off. Given how my own political journey went this was clearly an error in my judgement!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Using mobile phones, crypto and a bit of brains, it is quite simple to create transferable tickets that are verified, sellable etc.

    The music world is moving that way, for gigs. Football should.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,958

    The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS

    Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance

    Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April

    Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
    Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
    I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    We spent a full f**king week being transphobes in parliament and then we spent weeks during the campaign doing the exact same thing, and it was fucking insane,' an MP says. 'The transphobe thing was an absolute disaster.

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1530839410777923585

    I thought that was Mason and an SNP story at first. SNP and Greens knocking lumps out of each other over whether women can have penises. Of course Harvie and his weirdos swear it is true. Mason does not and the wicked witch is going to have him sent to re-education centre for brainwashing.
    There's no real opposition to the Greens and the SNP in the independence movement in the real world. Indeed the strongest performing ALBA candidate in the local elections who got 8% in Southside Central in Sturgeon's constituency has already defected to the SNP.

    Mason is a bit of a socially Conservative crank on abortion.

    Admittedly so is Kate Forbes to a lesser extent which is why the SNP doesn't take any action against Mason.
    Their crimes, uselessness and general bad governmnet ar ecatching up with them though and many will drift back to labour the way things are going. If Sturgeon is not ousted the dam will burst and they will go teh way labour did, the sheep will open their eyes at some point. Be interesting to see how they plug the huge holes in the budget going forward and no referendum yet again.
    Meanwhile the oil which was to have been finished by 2019 has miracuously multiplied and is keeping London afloat. Troubled times ahead for the freeloaders running the SNP.
    I think there is a tendency to underestimate Sturgeon because she is the only thing holding the SNP together.

    I did underestimate the SNP in last year's Holyrood elections and was surprised she went for such a formal alliance with the Greens afterwards.

    I think she will stand down in 2024 and 2025 but I wouldn't be surprised if she stands again in 2026 .

    That said the next Holyrood election now looks like all or nothing for SNP/Greens and given the recent council formations you can now see how Sarwar becomes FM just by SNP/Greens narrowly losing their majority.

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    We spent a full f**king week being transphobes in parliament and then we spent weeks during the campaign doing the exact same thing, and it was fucking insane,' an MP says. 'The transphobe thing was an absolute disaster.

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1530839410777923585

    I thought that was Mason and an SNP story at first. SNP and Greens knocking lumps out of each other over whether women can have penises. Of course Harvie and his weirdos swear it is true. Mason does not and the wicked witch is going to have him sent to re-education centre for brainwashing.
    There's no real opposition to the Greens and the SNP in the independence movement in the real world. Indeed the strongest performing ALBA candidate in the local elections who got 8% in Southside Central in Sturgeon's constituency has already defected to the SNP.

    Mason is a bit of a socially Conservative crank on abortion.

    Admittedly so is Kate Forbes to a lesser extent which is why the SNP doesn't take any action against Mason.
    Their crimes, uselessness and general bad governmnet ar ecatching up with them though and many will drift back to labour the way things are going. If Sturgeon is not ousted the dam will burst and they will go teh way labour did, the sheep will open their eyes at some point. Be interesting to see how they plug the huge holes in the budget going forward and no referendum yet again.
    Meanwhile the oil which was to have been finished by 2019 has miracuously multiplied and is keeping London afloat. Troubled times ahead for the freeloaders running the SNP.
    I think there is a tendency to underestimate Sturgeon because she is the only thing holding the SNP together.

    I did underestimate the SNP in last year's Holyrood elections and was surprised she went for such a formal alliance with the Greens afterwards.

    I think she will stand down in 2024 and 2025 but I wouldn't be surprised if she stands again in 2026 .

    That said the next Holyrood election now looks like all or nothing for SNP/Greens and given the recent council formations you can now see how Sarwar becomes FM just by SNP/Greens narrowly losing their majority.

    Given she has lied for the umpteenthtime that there will be a referendum, even the blind cult followers will realise the game is up. Therefore they will be voting on incompetence and whether women have penises. It will not end well for SNP if she is left in charge or if Macbeth replaces her. The truth must come out at some point you can only have so many super injunctions.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
    Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
    So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?

    Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited May 2022
    The core problem with handling fake tickets and chancers is you have to have a system of filters that means they don't get anywhere near the ground to start with. That wasn't the case yesterday.

    Instead you had that, plus local gangs attacking gates and fans.

    Which quickly led to chaos, which the French response was blanket secure the gates ad and when they were attacked and deploy tear gas to force people away.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
    Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
    So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?

    Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
    No, because most of the fans with fake tickets believe they have genuine tickets. That's the point.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
    Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
    So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?

    Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
    I think it got to a stage where if a ticket didn't scan first time they just rejected you because of the pressure build up and organised attempts to bum rush certain gates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
    Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
    So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?

    Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
    You mean that UEFA contains crooks who are faking/giving out duplicate tickets.

    I am shocked that criminality is happening here. Also can I have my winnings on account to save carrying them?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this




    But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS




    It’s fantastic
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191

    The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS

    Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance

    Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April

    Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
    Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
    I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
    The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    …Ukraine has pushed Russian forces away from Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway. - Luhansk Oblast Governor.

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    Situation in Luhansk Oblast difficult, it is Russia's main goal. Yet:
    🔹Sievierodonetsk is under 🇺🇦control, Russian troops are in hotel Myr
    🔹Ukraine regained Toshkivka
    🔹Near Komyshuvakha, Ukraine pushed Russians 2 km away from key Bakhmut-Lysychansk road …

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530872097941094403

    Ukrainians seem to be having a better couple of days. Here's hoping anyway.
    Yes, the Russians seem to have run out of momentum, if not artillery shells. The Ukranian offensives at Izium and at Kherson do seem to be making progress too.

    https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1530595518639915008?t=f40kpIF_d__z3vY-Q-wWyQ&s=19
    The Ukrainians claim 29,750 dead Russians. Now that might be way off - but the Russians haven't updated since March, so maybe closer to the truth than Russia can live with.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,275

    Libdems running with Sunday times story. Interesting it explicitly mentions name of minister and what he done

    “It adds that details concerning the "Abba night" party, which it is claimed was held in the prime minister's flat on 13 November 2020, were "tweaked" by Mr Johnson's chief-of-staff Steve Barclay on the eve of publication.
    It is alleged an earlier draft of Ms Gray's report referred to music being played and stated at what time the gathering ended, but that the information was redacted.”

    If the opposition parties keep pushing this cover up idea, especially on the ABBA party, growing number of voters will believe it was a whitewash. What the odds Police reopen this one like they did beergate?

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-boris-johnson-faces-despot-charge-over-cover-up-claims-12623349

    I really doubt the police reopening any of this and in any respect the publics verdict on Boris is guilty, so it is upto his mps to either back him or sack him as the mail says today

    If they are wise (not something they have been so far) they will sack him
    I can see the police reopening this, the ABBA party. Boris was quick with response in commons and presser on this - by not answering it - just referring to how Gray thoroughly investigated this and the reports and police enquiry conclusion.

    But neither Gray or Police have yet fully investigated the Abba party.

    It looks like Team Save Big Dog identified this as a problem and neutralised it as a problem.

    If not wishing to be accomplices to a cover up, Gray and the MET will have to respond now.
    Sue Gray's report said that as the MET had reviewed this incident and took no further action then neither did she

    I would just caution those trying to continue this story, that a time will come when the public, having decided Boris is guilty, will see the continuation as tedious and indeed yesterday's poll a majority (51% +8%) think partygate is a distraction

    Voter fatigue may well become apparent

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1530614438147117056?t=ItiVA37-ZwixPmbxAgU5Ng&s=19
    Never till the fat lying scumbag crook is booted out of office along with his assorted criminal Tory friends , malfeasants and outright wrong un's.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    The problem for the Tories is that by getting off Partygate we get onto CoL which they have no answers for.

    They have just announced a package of measures far more generous than labour proposals which has attracted wide support even from the IFS

    Lower income families will receive £400 In October plus upto £650 grant and if pensioners upto £600 extra winter fuel allowance

    Additionally benefits and pensions will rise by September inflation rate next April

    Rishi has also undertaken to provide further relief next year if required and this is why traditional conservatives are not happy because of this level of intervention
    Very easy to be more generous if you don't even try explain how you will fund it.
    I understand a windfall tax is involved !!! and the treasury has seen a rise from the well publicised tax increases
    The windfall tax is covering about a third of it, I think. The rest- the gap between Labour's plan and Rishi's- is Magic Money Tree, or Rishi's other tax windfalls.
    It's borrowing, isn't it? We haven't had a fiscally neutral budget in decades.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Leon said:

    There’s a block of Tbilisi old town which is quite touristy and looks like this




    But then you get loads of streets which still look like THIS




    It’s fantastic

    Until Saudi and Iran conspired to trash it, I loved Sana'a in Yemen as a place that was just....different. Maybe a Mercedes dealership, but other than that, very few references you knew. You could walk around a walled city that had houses built a thousand or more years ago - still occupied by the same family that built them. Doors that were artworks of history in their own right. All in a walled city whose gates were still closed at dusk and re-opened at dawn, as they had been for a thousand years - all while were listening to the Beatles.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    So how many Liverpool fans travelled to the match ?

    And how many tickets were there for Liverpool fans ?

    If the first number exceeds the second then its likely that some Liverpool fans had fake tickets or were attempting to get in without a ticket.

    Dunno. 20,000. Yes (or intends to buy one outside the ground). If the counterfeiters had clearly marked their tickets "fake" then these situations might be avoided but is that a sound business model?

    Let's do the sums. If Liverpool and Real Madrid are allocated 20,000 tickets each, and the stadium capacity is 80,000, then there are 40,000 genuine tickets that might well end up on the secondary market. Of course, home-based touts will also try to buy from the Liverpool allocation as well, and those tickets will also be genuine.

    The point is that if a fan buys tickets from a tout, there is a reasonable expectation they are genuine. (Whether it is legal is another matter but we'll park that.)
    Why are these tickets fakeable? For what they cost you could surely incorporate some kind of hologram thingy which it is cost ineffective to fake?
    Yes. But that is what we have now. Fake tickets are detected at the ground so fans are turned away which causes bottlenecks outside the ground so fans with real tickets are blocked. That is what happened last night but with added pepper-spray.
    So if we could educate the fans that fake tickets are not going to cut it, they wouldn't bother buying/turning up with them presumably?

    Also there's an actual footballer on twitter saying he got a ticket from UEFA and gave it to a mate and it was rejected as fake when clearly wasn't
    You mean that UEFA contains crooks who are faking/giving out duplicate tickets.

    I am shocked that criminality is happening here. Also can I have my winnings on account to save carrying them?
    More likely just that Uefa gives 40,000 tickets to people who do not really want them: fans of other clubs, sponsors and so on. Even the players will probably have been given tickets to give away. I used to know a chap who used to go to Lords and the Oval courtesy of his mate on the England team.
This discussion has been closed.