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The betting chart that says BoJo’s survived PartyGate – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Stuff that.

    I'd settle for someone who doesn't lie as a matter of course and has some sort of vision beyond "me and my minions being in power so yah boo sucks."

    Even that feels ambitious right now.
    I think you should feel grateful not to have a "leader" who doesn't like to pose bare chested on a horse, steals tens of billions, and invades neighbouring countries.

    It's time to readjust your views on what's acceptable.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962

    I see moving on to "tackle the big challenges" is the official line from Whips that all MPs must now tweet in next three hours.

    On which ... Mr Ross is outdoing himself.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20165550.douglas-ross-calls-boris-johnson-resign-ukraine-war/?ref=ebbn

    "The Moray MP, who said in January that Johnson should resign before U-turning because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, accepts that Johnson should step down … but not until the war in Ukraine is over."
    There was literally no benefit to him u-turning. Now he will be detested by No. 10 and not even have grudging respect for courage of his convictions.
    It was one of the weirdest unforced errors in modern Scottish politics. At one fell swoop the SCon VI collapsed back into the teens.
    Latest IndyRef polling (YouGov). Amazing how Boris/PartyGate isn't helping the cause at all.

    Scottish Independence Voting Intention:

    YES: 38% (-1)
    NO: 46% (+2)
    Undecideds: 11% (-2)

    Undecideds Excluded:

    NO: 55% (+2)
    YES: 45% (-2)

    Via
    @YouGov
    , On 18-23 May,
    Changes w/ 29-31 March.
    So zero progress under Sturgeon….
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kle4 said:

    Evie Breese
    @EvieBreese
    ·
    4h
    Imagine being the cleaner having to scrub red wine off the walls inside No10 while banned from visiting your own family at Christmas

    I note one part of the report states that there were multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff.

    You have to be a pretty big shit to rise to the level of 'poor treatment' of such staff. Lack of respect, sure, that might be easier to be unintentional, but it isn't hard to not be a dick to them, so I regard it as a rather important point about the people working there and how they operate.

    I'd be willing to bet many of them have uttered the dread phrase 'Do you know who I am/who I work for' in their lives before.
    Probably most office workers never see the cleaners. The problem here may be that late night "work events" will have meant half-cut SpAds getting in the way of the lower orders trying to clean up around them.
    Prince Philip celebration bash:

    “Exit logs indicate that some left after midnight and others between 01.45-02.45. Two members of staff stayed later still, with one leaving at 03.11 and the last leaving at 04:20.”

    you have to wonder whether 04:20 was unconscious, hoovering, chair-sniffing or what for that hour and 10 minutes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,443
    IshmaelZ said:


    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    Where is? Certainly not America. Too many intractable problems. And utterly poisonous politics. Worse than the UK

    Canada is dull, Switzerland is horribly expensive and dull, Australia is the only place maybe. But there you are a trillion miles from anywhere and at the mercy of climate change

    It’s honestly hard to be optimistic about anywhere on earth, at the moment. Which is awful

    I was just reading this climate change fear porn about Pakistan. 51C in May

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/25/it-seems-this-heat-will-take-our-lives-pakistan-city-fearful-jacobabad-after-hitting-51c
    Just possibly an island with a nuclear deterrent, temperate climate, regular elections of a free and fairish nature, tolerance, reasonable freedom of speech, 7 universities in the world top 50, where 30% of babies are born to foreign born mothers who have voluntarily arrived here, possessing a global language and a massive sense of irony has its attractions?

    A lot of people would think that being allowed to live in the UK is to have a winning lottery ticket.

    It’s a fair point

    I would dispute the temperate climate bit, I don’t find months of darkness and dankness and drizzle very temperate, but other than that, yes, probably true

    Greece is actually quite appealing, but only if you want to retire. Lovely climate, sense of self and family, beautiful unspoiled landscapes, no dreadful Woke bollocks, friendly without being obsequious. But you wouldn’t want to be young and ambitious…
    Agree our climate is sub optimal, and the sun is in the wrong place for about 8 months of the year. (And the northern half of Britain is much worse for all this). But the merit of being temperate is that the possibility of climate change is marginally less likely to be intolerable than, say, in Morocco or Iraq.

    India is the one that scares me. Chunks of it are already desert, and record insane temperatures. It is the sporadic heavy rain that makes it fertile and endurable. If the rains ever falter….

    That’s 1.4bn poor people, who could be pushed into desperation, with a fairly modest shift in climate towards the negative. And there are already ominous signs
    I agree. The top items on the global Risk Register are the ones where all three lemons are in a row: Catastrophic. Plausible/Likely. Insoluble.

    FWIW it seems to me that if the climate change guys are right then the only solution will be if there is a technical fix. For all the talk limiting harmful output sufficiently is not going to occur.

    If it's any consolation, all the indicators are in the red. If we fixed the climate tomorrow there's still soil depletion, plastic, overpopulation, pollinator loss and pollution waiting to get us.

    Technical fix of a planet-sized system is fantasy.
    I think you are right. But some think these are the chaps to get on the case, scaled up to planet level. I suppose we shall find out.

    https://climeworks.com/

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    As indeed is "levelling up". Although a great deal of that is theoretical as it is largely a slogan.
    It's a pile of non-existent crap which boils down to we might move the House of Lords to Stoke. Then again we wont.
    I believe the House of Lords will only be moved to Stoke in the event that it attempts to amend to death the upcoming Northern Ireland bill.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326
    Deleted
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    I hope the Ukrainians and Russians realise how much is riding on progress there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,908
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    As I understand it you vacillated between Leave and Remain right up to the ballot box. You were an ardent remainer on here until the very last moment and have continued to vacillate since.

    Your opprobrium towards 2nd voters who are themselves merely a symptom of a bloody stupid flawed referendum process is wearisome to most everyone else.

    lots of love

    xx
    Fuck off
    Lovely.

    You are a classic example of someone who is happy to dish out rudeness but the moment your own, vacillatory, stance is placed under scrutiny you lash out at everyone.

    I was perfectly polite. Merely pointing out a) your inconsistency on Brexit and the EU and b) your current obsession about that bygone rump of '2nd voters'.
    You don’t know me. If you did you would be aware that I’ve been eurosceptic all my life, long before it became fashionable. For this reason I know more about the EU and its functioning than almost anyone I have met. I’ve pursued the topic obsessively, as is my usual style

    I only vacillated at the last moment because of the obvious economic damage Brexit would bring. But in the end a relentless logic overwhelmed me, this was our last chance to get out. So we got out. It is scary, but we are out. I am angry that it ever got to the stage of actual Brexit. A referendum earlier - on Maastricht or Lisbon - would have lanced the boil without amputating the limb. But europhiles knew better…

    There, More than you deserve. And feel free to tell me fuck off, or indeed say anything you like. At least you will be doing it to me in person, as it were
    This is a bit odd, cos I would bet, on stylistic grounds, my bottom dollar plus whatever I could borrow that heathener = mysticrose, and I thought you knew mr. but none of my business, and prolly against site rules to say so.
    I didn’t and don’t know @Mysticrose

    It was some weird PB delusion about me. There are a few
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,027
    A rather bizarre local by-election today in Spelthorne. It is a Con defence but no Labour or Lib Dem candidates. So anti-Con voters have to vote Green or TUSC!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Things still ongoing:

    Judicial review of the Met by kimono man

    Khan inquiry into Met

    Privileges Committee

    LD Humble Address to see minutes of Johnson Gray meeting

    anything else?

    Oh God, that prick Maugham isnt sticking his oar in is he?
    Terrible, ain't it? Lawyers involving themselves in the law.
    His record would suggest he has launched quite a few spurious actions for political reasons. He'd still annoy the government, but invite less derision, if he chose his actions with a little more care, since it is very important to challenge government. But launch nonsense actions and it makes it easier for the government to suggest all challenges are nonsense. He thus aids them sometimes.
    I don't really care whether his motivations are political or not. He's acting within his area of expertise and there is a system for deciding whether his challenges have merit or not. He wins when he's right and loses when he's wrong. No need for anyone to get excited about it.
    We should care if his motivations are political or not - if someone clogs up the courts with political actions which have no real prospect of success, if takes time, money and attention away from worthwhile cases against the government.

    I want to see the government challenged. I am very happy if he is one of many who do it. But if he is allowing his politics to lead to spurious cases, he is not helping me, himself or the public.

    I think you are overreacting to the reaction from some who don't like him. He himself recently acknowledge they would work differently, and in some cases the best decision would be to withdraw.

    Not every case they bring will be a slam dunk, and that's fine. But hopeless actions (politics by another means) are a waste of his own time which could be spent on worthy actions. I would like him to be more effective, as that is a good thing!
    My reaction was against the blunt notion that Maugham is interfering, as though the rule of law has nothing to do with him. If you don't think that's a strange view idk if I can help you, but I don't think you do think that. You're just doing your normal thing which is to strike a middle course between two sides of an argument (I mean, your avatar...)
    Which is fine, it does the trick in many instances, but not here. This demonisation of Jo Maugham is part of a pernicious culture war being perpetrated by supporters of this government, and I think it's right to err on the side of the little guy. Scrutinising a government takes guts even in a civilised country like this, and the thuggish mentality of this PM doesn't help. We should be celebrating people like Maugham even if we think he's wrong sometimes. The alternative is loyalty and deference. Which is all well and good when "your" lot are in power but when it's the "other" lot, you will suddenly be yearning for people like him.

    Liberty stems from people like Maugham.
    I applaud the intent behind what he tries to do. I just think it is just obvious he is not great at picking actions to test, and so he is counter productive. His rhetoric is the same for all of them, yet most fail, so it gives the impression that things he challenges may not be as serious as he claims.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326
    edited May 2022
    Gray should really have produced a one-page, or even shorter, Executive Summary that would have been more accessible to the 99% who wouldn't read her full Report.

    Actually, I've done it for her:

    They broke the rules all the time, and the PM is a congenital liar and a very naughty boy.
    Cheers,
    Sue
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    kle4 said:

    Evie Breese
    @EvieBreese
    ·
    4h
    Imagine being the cleaner having to scrub red wine off the walls inside No10 while banned from visiting your own family at Christmas

    I note one part of the report states that there were multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff.

    You have to be a pretty big shit to rise to the level of 'poor treatment' of such staff. Lack of respect, sure, that might be easier to be unintentional, but it isn't hard to not be a dick to them, so I regard it as a rather important point about the people working there and how they operate.

    I'd be willing to bet many of them have uttered the dread phrase 'Do you know who I am/who I work for' in their lives before.
    Probably most office workers never see the cleaners. The problem here may be that late night "work events" will have meant half-cut SpAds getting in the way of the lower orders trying to clean up around them.
    Cleaners/security can't work from home either.

    Bit surprised that a story hasn't broken from this quarter, actually.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    slade said:

    A rather bizarre local by-election today in Spelthorne. It is a Con defence but no Labour or Lib Dem candidates. So anti-Con voters have to vote Green or TUSC!

    Might be worth voting Con, depending how typical the Con is, and depending on the flavour of Green candidate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    I hope the Ukrainians and Russians realise how much is riding on progress there.
    Tanks turning back as we speak. Will be known by historians as The Ross Intervention.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Evie Breese
    @EvieBreese
    ·
    4h
    Imagine being the cleaner having to scrub red wine off the walls inside No10 while banned from visiting your own family at Christmas

    I note one part of the report states that there were multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff.

    You have to be a pretty big shit to rise to the level of 'poor treatment' of such staff. Lack of respect, sure, that might be easier to be unintentional, but it isn't hard to not be a dick to them, so I regard it as a rather important point about the people working there and how they operate.

    I'd be willing to bet many of them have uttered the dread phrase 'Do you know who I am/who I work for' in their lives before.
    Probably most office workers never see the cleaners. The problem here may be that late night "work events" will have meant half-cut SpAds getting in the way of the lower orders trying to clean up around them.
    Prince Philip celebration bash:

    “Exit logs indicate that some left after midnight and others between 01.45-02.45. Two members of staff stayed later still, with one leaving at 03.11 and the last leaving at 04:20.”

    you have to wonder whether 04:20 was unconscious, hoovering, chair-sniffing or what for that hour and 10 minutes.
    There's one that has the last to leave (0313) noted as staying to tidy up a bit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    slade said:

    A rather bizarre local by-election today in Spelthorne. It is a Con defence but no Labour or Lib Dem candidates. So anti-Con voters have to vote Green or TUSC!

    I'd be drawing a cock and balls against all those candidates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    kle4 said:

    Evie Breese
    @EvieBreese
    ·
    4h
    Imagine being the cleaner having to scrub red wine off the walls inside No10 while banned from visiting your own family at Christmas

    I note one part of the report states that there were multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff.

    You have to be a pretty big shit to rise to the level of 'poor treatment' of such staff. Lack of respect, sure, that might be easier to be unintentional, but it isn't hard to not be a dick to them, so I regard it as a rather important point about the people working there and how they operate.

    I'd be willing to bet many of them have uttered the dread phrase 'Do you know who I am/who I work for' in their lives before.
    Probably most office workers never see the cleaners. The problem here may be that late night "work events" will have meant half-cut SpAds getting in the way of the lower orders trying to clean up around them.
    You're right about most never seeing them. That's why report of 'multiple' examples of poor behaviour are concerning, since getting in their way and being a bit disrespectful wouldn't cover that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,718

    Gray should really have produced a one-page, or even shorter, Executive Summary that would have been more accessible to the 99% who wouldn't read her full Report.

    Actually, I've done it for her:

    They broke the rules all the time, and the PM is a congenital liar and a very naughty boy.
    Cheers,
    Sue

    "We think we’ve got away with it" says it all.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    edited May 2022
    slade said:

    A rather bizarre local by-election today in Spelthorne. It is a Con defence but no Labour or Lib Dem candidates. So anti-Con voters have to vote Green or TUSC!

    There's been some co-operation between Lab, LD and Green there. So it's probably planned.
    Green is favourite on Smarkets.
    Why is it on a Wednesday though?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,718
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Evie Breese
    @EvieBreese
    ·
    4h
    Imagine being the cleaner having to scrub red wine off the walls inside No10 while banned from visiting your own family at Christmas

    I note one part of the report states that there were multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff.

    You have to be a pretty big shit to rise to the level of 'poor treatment' of such staff. Lack of respect, sure, that might be easier to be unintentional, but it isn't hard to not be a dick to them, so I regard it as a rather important point about the people working there and how they operate.

    I'd be willing to bet many of them have uttered the dread phrase 'Do you know who I am/who I work for' in their lives before.
    Probably most office workers never see the cleaners. The problem here may be that late night "work events" will have meant half-cut SpAds getting in the way of the lower orders trying to clean up around them.
    Prince Philip celebration bash:

    “Exit logs indicate that some left after midnight and others between 01.45-02.45. Two members of staff stayed later still, with one leaving at 03.11 and the last leaving at 04:20.”

    you have to wonder whether 04:20 was unconscious, hoovering, chair-sniffing or what for that hour and 10 minutes.
    Preparing a powerpoint or spreadsheet for the next morning, surely?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    edited May 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Evie Breese
    @EvieBreese
    ·
    4h
    Imagine being the cleaner having to scrub red wine off the walls inside No10 while banned from visiting your own family at Christmas

    I note one part of the report states that there were multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff.

    You have to be a pretty big shit to rise to the level of 'poor treatment' of such staff. Lack of respect, sure, that might be easier to be unintentional, but it isn't hard to not be a dick to them, so I regard it as a rather important point about the people working there and how they operate.

    I'd be willing to bet many of them have uttered the dread phrase 'Do you know who I am/who I work for' in their lives before.
    Probably most office workers never see the cleaners. The problem here may be that late night "work events" will have meant half-cut SpAds getting in the way of the lower orders trying to clean up around them.
    Prince Philip celebration bash:

    “Exit logs indicate that some left after midnight and others between 01.45-02.45. Two members of staff stayed later still, with one leaving at 03.11 and the last leaving at 04:20.”

    you have to wonder whether 04:20 was unconscious, hoovering, chair-sniffing or what for that hour and 10 minutes.
    Preparing a powerpoint or spreadsheet for the next morning, surely?
    If they'd spreadsheets beforehand there wouldn't have been so much vomit to clean up.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,718

    Boris: I felt I had a duty to say goodbye in person to colleagues who were leaving.

    Boris: I'm sorry, but you must not say goodbye in person to relatives dying of Covid.

    He thinks the electorate are fools. Sadly, on average, he is right enough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,908
    edited May 2022
    I am stung by the critiques of my photography. So I’m trying a shot - right this minute - of my dinner table, without moving. Where the waiters have taken to giving me free wine, because I already drink so much wine




    Not bad, not brilliant, not smeared with grease; it captures a tiny bit of the laid back mood here
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    Boris: I felt I had a duty to say goodbye in person to colleagues who were leaving.

    Boris: I'm sorry, but you must not say goodbye in person to relatives dying of Covid.

    He thinks the electorate are fools. Sadly, on average, he is right enough.
    Better to be an honest fool than a dishonest intellectual though.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707
    edited May 2022
    One minor point about the Gray report is the first thing that jumps out, on page 3 (the fifth page) the item number 10 is in italic and the other numbers are not. Why wasn't it proofread and can't Sue Gray work a word processor?
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1078404/2022-05-25_FINAL_FINDINGS_OF_SECOND_PERMANENT_SECRETARY_INTO_ALLEGED_GATHERINGS.pdf

    Or a caps lock key?

    (In decades past, typing and typesetting were done by specialists; for the past 20 years, highly-paid professionals have spent large parts of their days on what used to be secretarial tasks.)
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,230

    Gray should really have produced a one-page, or even shorter, Executive Summary that would have been more accessible to the 99% who wouldn't read her full Report.

    Actually, I've done it for her:

    They broke the rules all the time, and the PM is a congenital liar and a very naughty boy.
    Cheers,
    Sue

    Surely she can't judge he's a congenital liar, he may have learnt to do so at some point during childhood.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited May 2022
    Interesting. Highly impressive all round human being is Vincent.

    Vincent Kompany: Former Man City captain in talks over Burnley manager's job
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61585290
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,718
    kle4 said:

    Boris: I felt I had a duty to say goodbye in person to colleagues who were leaving.

    Boris: I'm sorry, but you must not say goodbye in person to relatives dying of Covid.

    He thinks the electorate are fools. Sadly, on average, he is right enough.
    Better to be an honest fool than a dishonest intellectual though.
    Depends on what you are trying to achieve. Would definitely take a few more averagely honest, average intelligence MPs rather than this lot. 20% elected by sortition for me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440

    One minor point about the Gray report is the first thing that jumps out, on page 3 (the fifth page) the item number 10 is in italic and the other numbers are not. Why wasn't it proofread and can't Sue Gray work a word processor?
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1078404/2022-05-25_FINAL_FINDINGS_OF_SECOND_PERMANENT_SECRETARY_INTO_ALLEGED_GATHERINGS.pdf

    Or a caps lock key?

    (In decades past, typing and typesetting were done by specialists; for the past 20 years, highly-paid professionals have spent large parts of their days on what used to be secretarial tasks.)

    That happens at work a lot, when different people write different sections of a report.

    I have a style guide to avoid issues like this.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871
    Leon said:

    I am stung by the critiques of my photography. So I’m trying a shot - right this minute - of my dinner table, without moving. Where the waiters have taken to giving me free wine, because I already drink so much wine




    Not bad, not brilliant, not smeared with grease; it captures a tiny bit of the laid back mood here

    Its got that artsy off-kilter framing that is so down wiv da kidz.

    Would benefit from HDR post processing. Or "a touch of curves" if I was in photoshop.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,027
    dixiedean said:

    slade said:

    A rather bizarre local by-election today in Spelthorne. It is a Con defence but no Labour or Lib Dem candidates. So anti-Con voters have to vote Green or TUSC!

    There's been some co-operation between Lab, LD and Green there. So it's probably planned.
    Green is favourite on Smarkets.
    Why is it on a Wednesday though?
    Yes - I expect a Green gain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    One minor point about the Gray report is the first thing that jumps out, on page 3 (the fifth page) the item number 10 is in italic and the other numbers are not. Why wasn't it proofread and can't Sue Gray work a word processor?
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1078404/2022-05-25_FINAL_FINDINGS_OF_SECOND_PERMANENT_SECRETARY_INTO_ALLEGED_GATHERINGS.pdf

    Or a caps lock key?

    (In decades past, typing and typesetting were done by specialists; for the past 20 years, highly-paid professionals have spent large parts of their days on what used to be secretarial tasks.)

    I had noticed that on number 10. I have seen far worse errors in government documents, but it was amusing.

    Even if people mostly prepare it themselves you do need someone whose job it is to polish the formatting.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Stuff that.

    I'd settle for someone who doesn't lie as a matter of course and has some sort of vision beyond "me and my minions being in power so yah boo sucks."

    Even that feels ambitious right now.
    I think you should feel grateful not to have a "leader" who doesn't like to pose bare chested on a horse, steals tens of billions, and invades neighbouring countries.

    It's time to readjust your views on what's acceptable.
    If we had to see boris's moobs on horseback, I think I'd go with Putin.

    As for the billions, it's an oddity of UK politics that suggestions of corruption never go further than allegations of donations *to party funds,* and wallpaper. Most odd. Very, very odd. Indeed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751

    Leon said:

    2nd voters are as relevant today as Dominic Grieve and Anna Soubry. Yesterday's itchy butthole.

    Take 5 minutes, sit down, stare out of the window, and then imagine what would have happened if we’d had a 2nd vote with Remain on the ballot, as so many wanted, especially (but absolutely not exclusively) those on the Left. Led by Kier Starmer

    There. Exactly
    Like Scottish Independence its the box you should not open. Scotland voted remain in 2014 yet the need to not accept the result and overturn it possesses a significant chunk of the population. Similarly had it been 51:49 in favour of remain - even the Nigel earlier in the night when he wrongly conceded defeat said they wouldn't stop.

    So you are absolutely right - a 2nd ballot would have been cultural car crash territory. But as 6 years on YouGov has to ask "leave or remain?" and culture war people are fighting "remoaner woke traitors" we have hardly been able to move on despite leave winning and there being no second referendum.

    The only way to win was not to play.
    And you call yourself a democrat.

    Sigh.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    Jack Dorsey is leaving the twitter board today. I reckon he is about to dump on them from a great height.
    Interestingly also today Peter Thiel leaving Meta board with immediate effect.
    Something afoot in social media world
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440

    Interesting. Highly impressive all round human being is Vincent.

    Vincent Kompany: Former Man City captain in talks over Burnley manager's job
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61585290

    He's a terrible human being.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sean-coxs-brother-slams-man-16016496
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    One minor point about the Gray report is the first thing that jumps out, on page 3 (the fifth page) the item number 10 is in italic and the other numbers are not. Why wasn't it proofread and can't Sue Gray work a word processor?
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1078404/2022-05-25_FINAL_FINDINGS_OF_SECOND_PERMANENT_SECRETARY_INTO_ALLEGED_GATHERINGS.pdf

    Or a caps lock key?

    (In decades past, typing and typesetting were done by specialists; for the past 20 years, highly-paid professionals have spent large parts of their days on what used to be secretarial tasks.)

    I had noticed that on number 10. I have seen far worse errors in government documents, but it was amusing.

    Even if people mostly prepare it themselves you do need someone whose job it is to polish the formatting.
    to steal a surpassingly excellent joke from anothe PBer a few years back, Mrs T's attitude to this was: You kern if you want to. The lady is not for kerning.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,718
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Stuff that.

    I'd settle for someone who doesn't lie as a matter of course and has some sort of vision beyond "me and my minions being in power so yah boo sucks."

    Even that feels ambitious right now.
    I think you should feel grateful not to have a "leader" who doesn't like to pose bare chested on a horse, steals tens of billions, and invades neighbouring countries.

    It's time to readjust your views on what's acceptable.
    If we had to see boris's moobs on horseback, I think I'd go with Putin.

    Could settle the debate between kinabalu and BR once and for all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,908

    Leon said:

    I am stung by the critiques of my photography. So I’m trying a shot - right this minute - of my dinner table, without moving. Where the waiters have taken to giving me free wine, because I already drink so much wine




    Not bad, not brilliant, not smeared with grease; it captures a tiny bit of the laid back mood here

    Its got that artsy off-kilter framing that is so down wiv da kidz.

    Would benefit from HDR post processing. Or "a touch of curves" if I was in photoshop.
    It’s tilted that way coz I am slightly tipsy, and I had to lean to get the sun behind something. I had no idea it is a photographic *thing*

    Sivota is fucking lush, all that said. The waiter just told me they have “one busy month”. August, of course

    The rest of the year it is like this. It snoozes. Yachty Totty comes and goes. Waiters play cards. Cats yawn, waiting for one of the richer tourists to finish a decent fish, and toss the bone. The sun sets perfectly, every evening

    Brilliant. But now, onwards! My travels continue
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    I am stung by the critiques of my photography. So I’m trying a shot - right this minute - of my dinner table, without moving. Where the waiters have taken to giving me free wine, because I already drink so much wine




    Not bad, not brilliant, not smeared with grease; it captures a tiny bit of the laid back mood here

    Amazing body language from the foreground couple, as far apart as it is possible to look while seated at a table for 2.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Ps I do apologise for going off topic about something really important when there is month 6 of someone having a drink after work to discuss.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Ps I do apologise for going off topic about something really important when there is month 6 of someone having a drink after work to discuss.
    The real question is for Michael Howard. Did he threaten to overule Derek Lewis?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,308

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Hes trying to triangulate the circle as he squares it.
    Just stop Douglas.
    Utterly idiotic. If Boris is the only one who can steer the good ship Britannia through the choppy waters of the Ukraine war, why it would be the right thing to get rid of hin after it. Is there going to be 'nothing important' going on after that? When it's all opening garden centres and kissing babies, Truss can do it? Ross is showing poor judgement consistently.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,757
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    I am stung by the critiques of my photography. So I’m trying a shot - right this minute - of my dinner table, without moving. Where the waiters have taken to giving me free wine, because I already drink so much wine




    Not bad, not brilliant, not smeared with grease; it captures a tiny bit of the laid back mood here

    Pity you took it just as your ship lurched to starboard
    It's not often you see the sea sloping
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    Governor Abbott talking at great length about evil and mental illness.
    Not about the 20 ton elephant.
    Heckled by Beto O'Rourke. Who was.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    It does rather show what Russia might have been able to do if they had focused solely on these areas from the start. Like you I'm not massively positive, but I hope the losses elsewhere mean even if they breakthrough now it will be harder to hold.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707
    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    As we are discussing proofreading, how many different spellings of the word constituency are there in the Tiverton & Honiton list of candidates?
    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    dixiedean said:

    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.

    The way inflation is going that might buy just be enough to be a pint in a couple of years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    Biden won. Yet Americans are still animated and angered by the attempt to sabotage American democracy in DC


    Ditto the UK and the 2nd voter Trumpites. For me. I admit I am quite rare in my anger. But I reckon that’s because I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    There would have been an even more overwhelming vote for out?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    Well England's test opener is looking like in piss poor form....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,308
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    Not all of those regions were in armed rebellion of course, hence the various cities fighting in that region.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    I am stung by the critiques of my photography. So I’m trying a shot - right this minute - of my dinner table, without moving. Where the waiters have taken to giving me free wine, because I already drink so much wine




    Not bad, not brilliant, not smeared with grease; it captures a tiny bit of the laid back mood here

    Pity you took it just as your ship lurched to starboard
    It's not often you see the sea sloping
    You should have been with us crossing Drakes passage to Antarctica

    It was vertical at times !!!!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    Rowntree surely makes @david_herdson's the most Yorkshire name.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    dixiedean said:

    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.

    £10bn across 70 million people is £143 per person. Scale that up depending on how laser-like the focus is going to be.

    The energy price cap went up by about £700 last month and is expected to go up by another £700 in the autumn.

    The government can't not do this, but I'm not sure it's going to solve their problem.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    I like reading Hansard at the start of a new parliament when they take the oath or affirm, as it lists their full name.

    Wyvill Richard Nicolls Raynsford was always one of my favourites.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.

    £10bn across 70 million people is £143 per person. Scale that up depending on how laser-like the focus is going to be.

    The energy price cap went up by about £700 last month and is expected to go up by another £700 in the autumn.

    The government can't not do this, but I'm not sure it's going to solve their problem.
    Yeah, concentrate it on the pensioners.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    I like reading Hansard at the start of a new parliament when they take the oath or affirm, as it lists their full name.

    Wyvill Richard Nicolls Raynsford was always one of my favourites.
    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    Well England's test opener is looking like in piss poor form....

    Apparently Yorkshire have decided they don't want to win their match tonight, they've made Joe Root captain.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    I like reading Hansard at the start of a new parliament when they take the oath or affirm, as it lists their full name.

    Wyvill Richard Nicolls Raynsford was always one of my favourites.
    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax
    Just possibly a relative of this chap? The name does ring a bell.

    Admiral The Honourable Sir Reginald Aylmer Ranfurly Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax, KCB, DSO, JP, DL, Commander-in-Chief, The Nore; his next position being Private (presumably) in the Home Guard.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,373

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    What makes you think that Russia will stick to any deal they make with Ukraine for any longer than it takes for them to rebuild their strength? Why do you trust anything Russia says given their hideous catalogue of international misbehaviour?

    Remember, they leased the base in Crimea off Ukraine, and then used it to launch their retake of Crimea back in 2014.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,689
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    It's an offence to drop middle names if you can't shorten your first name.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Well England's test opener is looking like in piss poor form....

    Evergreen post
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Hes trying to triangulate the circle as he squares it.
    Just stop Douglas.
    Utterly idiotic. If Boris is the only one who can steer the good ship Britannia through the choppy waters of the Ukraine war, why it would be the right thing to get rid of hin after it. Is there going to be 'nothing important' going on after that? When it's all opening garden centres and kissing babies, Truss can do it? Ross is showing poor judgement consistently.
    He's boxed himself in like a total numpty.
    Send Megan out to do the heavy lifting laddie!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited May 2022
    Tres said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    It's an offence to drop middle names if you can't shorten your first name.
    Is that different rules for parliament and locals? As I know for a fact some people elected locallt under names that are not their real name, but names they are 'known by', and which are not shortenings of their first name.

    And Boris isn't listed under his actual first name, which is not shortened, nor are his middle names listed (and that assuming Lord Buckethead changed his legal name to that)

    https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/3333/Uxbridge-and-South-Ruislip
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,308

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    What makes you think that Russia will stick to any deal they make with Ukraine for any longer than it takes for them to rebuild their strength? Why do you trust anything Russia says given their hideous catalogue of international misbehaviour?

    Remember, they leased the base in Crimea off Ukraine, and then used it to launch their retake of Crimea back in 2014.
    No, I don't trust them. I think the rest of the country should be armed to the teeth to block any possible future Russian advance in that direction.

    In answer to @kle4, yes, there are people in the breakaway bits on the Ukrainian side, that's the sad bit of any partition. I suspect if it happens the way I've outlined there will be a lot of displacement. However, it still seems to be the solution that would provide the greatest happiness for the greatest number.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    I like reading Hansard at the start of a new parliament when they take the oath or affirm, as it lists their full name.

    Wyvill Richard Nicolls Raynsford was always one of my favourites.
    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax
    Just possibly a relative of this chap? The name does ring a bell.

    Admiral The Honourable Sir Reginald Aylmer Ranfurly Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax, KCB, DSO, JP, DL, Commander-in-Chief, The Nore; his next position being Private (presumably) in the Home Guard.
    Nah, we're lowsy with Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax's round my way. Can't turnaround without bumping into one, it is very common.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.

    £10bn across 70 million people is £143 per person. Scale that up depending on how laser-like the focus is going to be.

    The energy price cap went up by about £700 last month and is expected to go up by another £700 in the autumn.

    The government can't not do this, but I'm not sure it's going to solve their problem.
    Yeah, concentrate it on the pensioners.
    If it's say pensioners and UC recipients, that gives about 12 million + 5 million; spread £10 billion across them, and it's £600 per person, just over a tenner a week. It's a meaningful amount, but not enough to undo the recent and incoming pain.

    I'm not sure there is much the government can do.

    Good luck, everyone.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    More likely partition as seen in Kashmir, in which a ceasefire happens, a line is drawn on a map, and both sides both desist from fighting but refuse to recognise the claims of the other - although where that line will be, even assuming that the tide doesn't turn decisively in favour of the Ukrainians, is impossible to predict. Russia is grinding forward by concentrating its surviving forces right now, but the longer this drags on for, the more (better quality, longer range) heavy weapons arrive from the West to bolster the Ukrainian side, and the more ramshackle the Russian army will become.

    Regardless, the eventual aim of the Western powers (or, at a minimum, the Anglosphere, Poland, the East Asian democracies, the Scandis and the Balts, which is more then enough to prove decisive,) will be to pump the 80-90% of Ukraine that survives this so full of advanced weaponry that it effectively makes it invulnerable to further Russian imperial adventurism. Queasiness about escalation is already fading - once there's a ceasefire then bunging vast quantities of serious kit like frigates, submarines and fighter aircraft at Ukraine will rapidly follow.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,689
    edited May 2022
    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    It's an offence to drop middle names if you can't shorten your first name.
    Is that different rules for parliament and locals? As I know for a fact some people elected locallt under names that are not their real name, but names they are 'known by', and which are not shortenings of their first name.

    And Boris isn't listed under his actual first name, which is not shortened, nor are his middle names listed (and that assuming Lord Buckethead changed his legal name to that)

    https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/3333/Uxbridge-and-South-Ruislip
    He can do that because Boris isn't his first name. But he couldn't appear on the ballot as Alexander Johnson (although he could as Alex Johnson). Bonkers I know, basically it's another piece of crappily drafted legislation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited May 2022

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    What makes you think that Russia will stick to any deal they make with Ukraine for any longer than it takes for them to rebuild their strength? Why do you trust anything Russia says given their hideous catalogue of international misbehaviour?

    Remember, they leased the base in Crimea off Ukraine, and then used it to launch their retake of Crimea back in 2014.
    No, I don't trust them. I think the rest of the country should be armed to the teeth to block any possible future Russian advance in that direction.

    In answer to kle4, yes, there are people in the breakaway bits on the Ukrainian side, that's the sad bit of any partition. I suspect if it happens the way I've outlined there will be a lot of displacement. However, it still seems to be the solution that would provide the greatest happiness for the greatest number.
    Just an indication we need to be careful when talking about regional divisions - it would likely as you note end up messier than that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Tres said:

    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    It's an offence to drop middle names if you can't shorten your first name.
    Is that different rules for parliament and locals? As I know for a fact some people elected locallt under names that are not their real name, but names they are 'known by', and which are not shortenings of their first name.

    And Boris isn't listed under his actual first name, which is not shortened, nor are his middle names listed (and that assuming Lord Buckethead changed his legal name to that)

    https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/3333/Uxbridge-and-South-Ruislip
    He can do that because Boris isn't is his first name. But he couldn't appear on the ballot as Alexander Johnson (although he could as Alex Johnson). Bonkers I know, basically it's another piece of crappily drafted legislation.
    That is very silly indeed. So you can go by anything you like at all, but if you are going by first name you have to include it all, except if you shorten the first name?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,373

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    What makes you think that Russia will stick to any deal they make with Ukraine for any longer than it takes for them to rebuild their strength? Why do you trust anything Russia says given their hideous catalogue of international misbehaviour?

    Remember, they leased the base in Crimea off Ukraine, and then used it to launch their retake of Crimea back in 2014.
    No, I don't trust them. I think the rest of the country should be armed to the teeth to block any possible future Russian advance in that direction.

    In answer to @kle4, yes, there are people in the breakaway bits on the Ukrainian side, that's the sad bit of any partition. I suspect if it happens the way I've outlined there will be a lot of displacement. However, it still seems to be the solution that would provide the greatest happiness for the greatest number.
    You cannot trust the Russians, so they will just break any such agreement. And you can bet your bottom dollar if they don't get all the coast as part of this 'deal' then that peace will be broken much sooner.

    What Putin wants has been obvious for years, and Russia getting more territory is just another salami-slicing step in his plan.

    Russia needs defeating; not only as a message to them, but to other countries that gaining territory by invasion will not be accepted.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    kle4 said:

    Tres said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    It's an offence to drop middle names if you can't shorten your first name.
    Is that different rules for parliament and locals? As I know for a fact some people elected locallt under names that are not their real name, but names they are 'known by', and which are not shortenings of their first name.

    And Boris isn't listed under his actual first name, which is not shortened, nor are his middle names listed (and that assuming Lord Buckethead changed his legal name to that)

    https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/3333/Uxbridge-and-South-Ruislip
    He can do that because Boris isn't is his first name. But he couldn't appear on the ballot as Alexander Johnson (although he could as Alex Johnson). Bonkers I know, basically it's another piece of crappily drafted legislation.
    That is very silly indeed. So you can go by anything you like at all, but if you are going by first name you have to include it all, except if you shorten the first name?
    This claim strikes me as gibberish.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    Biden won. Yet Americans are still animated and angered by the attempt to sabotage American democracy in DC


    Ditto the UK and the 2nd voter Trumpites. For me. I admit I am quite rare in my anger. But I reckon that’s because I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    There would have been an even more overwhelming vote for out?
    I think you're right. (Except on the nitpicky aspect that for the second vote to be 'even more overwhelming' the first vote would have to have been 'overwhelming' - which I don't think we could claim.) There would have been some churn between leave, remain and dnv - but I think the biggest movement would have been the 'stop titting about' bloc exemplified by the likes of Big G. His view is representative of a lot of pensioners I know.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A mere 8 candidates for Tiverton and Honiton. Not even the MRLP, just UKIP, Heritage, Reform and For Britain to cover the crazy element.

    https://www.middevon.gov.uk/your-council/voting-elections/2022-elections/tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-election/statement-of-persons-nominated-tiverton-and-honiton-parliamentary-constituency/

    A much more creditable 15 for Wakefield, including a number of independents.

    https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Documents/elections/elections-2022/by-election-sopn.pdf

    Good grief. A motley crew in Wakefield. Including Jayda Fransen, now an Independent. There are numerous options on the right.
    I like SOPN as some people insist on including their full names even though you can shorten them, and you can get some interesting middle names.
    I see the Green chap's middle name is "Blue".

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,145
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Things still ongoing:

    Judicial review of the Met by kimono man

    Khan inquiry into Met

    Privileges Committee

    LD Humble Address to see minutes of Johnson Gray meeting

    anything else?

    Oh God, that prick Maugham isnt sticking his oar in is he?
    Terrible, ain't it? Lawyers involving themselves in the law.
    His record would suggest he has launched quite a few spurious actions for political reasons. He'd still annoy the government, but invite less derision, if he chose his actions with a little more care, since it is very important to challenge government. But launch nonsense actions and it makes it easier for the government to suggest all challenges are nonsense. He thus aids them sometimes.
    I don't really care whether his motivations are political or not. He's acting within his area of expertise and there is a system for deciding whether his challenges have merit or not. He wins when he's right and loses when he's wrong. No need for anyone to get excited about it.
    He’s a vexatious litigant who is making a very good living from wasting the court’s time
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,308
    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    More likely partition as seen in Kashmir, in which a ceasefire happens, a line is drawn on a map, and both sides both desist from fighting but refuse to recognise the claims of the other - although where that line will be, even assuming that the tide doesn't turn decisively in favour of the Ukrainians, is impossible to predict. Russia is grinding forward by concentrating its surviving forces right now, but the longer this drags on for, the more (better quality, longer range) heavy weapons arrive from the West to bolster the Ukrainian side, and the more ramshackle the Russian army will become.

    Regardless, the eventual aim of the Western powers (or, at a minimum, the Anglosphere, Poland, the East Asian democracies, the Scandis and the Balts, which is more then enough to prove decisive,) will be to pump the 80-90% of Ukraine that survives this so full of advanced weaponry that it effectively makes it invulnerable to further Russian imperial adventurism. Queasiness about escalation is already fading - once there's a ceasefire then bunging vast quantities of serious kit like frigates, submarines and fighter aircraft at Ukraine will rapidly follow.
    Yes, I suspect your latter paragraph is what will happen, and not without cause.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    edited May 2022
    The current Boris 2022 exit price is remarkable!

    (4ish)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    Biden won. Yet Americans are still animated and angered by the attempt to sabotage American democracy in DC


    Ditto the UK and the 2nd voter Trumpites. For me. I admit I am quite rare in my anger. But I reckon that’s because I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    There would have been an even more overwhelming vote for out?
    I think you're right. (Except on the nitpicky aspect that for the second vote to be 'even more overwhelming' the first vote would have to have been 'overwhelming' - which I don't think we could claim.) There would have been some churn between leave, remain and dnv - but I think the biggest movement would have been the 'stop titting about' bloc exemplified by the likes of Big G. His view is representative of a lot of pensioners I know.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,145
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    As I understand it you vacillated between Leave and Remain right up to the ballot box. You were an ardent remainer on here until the very last moment and have continued to vacillate since.

    Your opprobrium towards 2nd voters who are themselves merely a symptom of a bloody stupid flawed referendum process is wearisome to most everyone else.

    lots of love

    xx
    Fuck off
    Lovely.

    You are a classic example of someone who is happy to dish out rudeness but the moment your own, vacillatory, stance is placed under scrutiny you lash out at everyone.

    I was perfectly polite. Merely pointing out a) your inconsistency on Brexit and the EU and b) your current obsession about that bygone rump of '2nd voters'.
    You don’t know me. If you did you would be aware that I’ve been eurosceptic all my life, long before it became fashionable. For this reason I know more about the EU and its functioning than almost anyone I have met. I’ve pursued the topic obsessively, as is my usual style

    I only vacillated at the last moment because of the obvious economic damage Brexit would bring. But in the end a relentless logic overwhelmed me, this was our last chance to get out. So we got out. It is scary, but we are out. I am angry that it ever got to the stage of actual Brexit. A referendum earlier - on Maastricht or Lisbon - would have lanced the boil without amputating the limb. But europhiles knew better…

    There, More than you deserve. And feel free to tell me fuck off, or indeed say anything you like. At least you will be doing it to me in person, as it were
    IIRC you were most worried about the value of your flat…
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Im impressed in Ross's ability to triangulate to a position that everyone hates.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.

    £10bn across 70 million people is £143 per person. Scale that up depending on how laser-like the focus is going to be.

    The energy price cap went up by about £700 last month and is expected to go up by another £700 in the autumn.

    The government can't not do this, but I'm not sure it's going to solve their problem.
    Yeah, concentrate it on the pensioners.
    If it's say pensioners and UC recipients, that gives about 12 million + 5 million; spread £10 billion across them, and it's £600 per person, just over a tenner a week. It's a meaningful amount, but not enough to undo the recent and incoming pain.

    I'm not sure there is much the government can do.

    Good luck, everyone.
    So - I ask once again, what about people on benefits who are not UC? ESA, DLA, PIP, Carers?????

    I think UC is becoming shorthand in media and policy circles for everyone on benefits when it is not.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Things still ongoing:

    Judicial review of the Met by kimono man

    Khan inquiry into Met

    Privileges Committee

    LD Humble Address to see minutes of Johnson Gray meeting

    anything else?

    Oh God, that prick Maugham isnt sticking his oar in is he?
    Terrible, ain't it? Lawyers involving themselves in the law.
    His record would suggest he has launched quite a few spurious actions for political reasons. He'd still annoy the government, but invite less derision, if he chose his actions with a little more care, since it is very important to challenge government. But launch nonsense actions and it makes it easier for the government to suggest all challenges are nonsense. He thus aids them sometimes.
    I don't really care whether his motivations are political or not. He's acting within his area of expertise and there is a system for deciding whether his challenges have merit or not. He wins when he's right and loses when he's wrong. No need for anyone to get excited about it.
    He’s a vexatious litigant who is making a very good living from wasting the court’s time
    Harumph, harumph. It's for the courts to decide that he's vexatious. They haven't.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    All Labour needs to win is have a manifesto in favour of the young and working population. A fair number of older folk like me would vote for it too, because like @Cyclefree we care about their future more than our own.

    Even if an election is lost on that platform, how much better to have at least tried.
    That was on offer in 2017 & 2019 you both voted against it

    It wont be in 2024
    It wasn't on offer, Corbyn wanted to prioritise preserving houses for inheritance over using them to pay for social care. You were much in favour of his policy as I recall. That policy favoured the rich over the poor.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    That long?

    NEW: Scottish Conservatives leader Douglas Ross in @SkyNews interview: When the war in Ukraine is over, Boris Johnson should stand down.

    https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1529482563366027266?

    Russia is going for it right now. Before even the bloody Germans get around to approving the export of superior weaponry. They will win or lose this war in the next 3 months and it’s too close to call right now.
    If Ukraine is still in the game in late August they have won.

    Hopefully. The Russians do appear to be making progress, but if that can be limited one hopes time is not on their side.
    Personally I am not optimistic. I think that the fire power Russia can bring to bear right now is sufficiently overwhelming to be decisive. I really, really hope I am wrong.
    I think a good landing strip for future peace is for Putin to lease those territories from Ukraine. I cannot honestly see them going back - they were in armed rebellion (abetted by Russia) before this started. Given how much water there is under the bridge, you would presumably acknowledge that a rainbow state/truth and reconciliation sort of outcome is very unlikely in a future united Ukraine. Nelson Mandela they ain't. That means a partition style outcome like the Indian subcontinent after the Raj is probably the likeliest outcome, with a Western-sponsored side and a Russian-sponsored side.
    What makes you think that Russia will stick to any deal they make with Ukraine for any longer than it takes for them to rebuild their strength? Why do you trust anything Russia says given their hideous catalogue of international misbehaviour?

    Remember, they leased the base in Crimea off Ukraine, and then used it to launch their retake of Crimea back in 2014.
    No, I don't trust them. I think the rest of the country should be armed to the teeth to block any possible future Russian advance in that direction.

    In answer to @kle4, yes, there are people in the breakaway bits on the Ukrainian side, that's the sad bit of any partition. I suspect if it happens the way I've outlined there will be a lot of displacement. However, it still seems to be the solution that would provide the greatest happiness for the greatest number.
    If you are proposing to displace the population, then why draw the new border in a way that weakens the Ukrainian state? Russia isn't exactly short of territory, is it?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    Alistair said:

    Im impressed in Ross's ability to triangulate to a position that everyone hates.

    He is a First Div referee by trade ...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    BBC reporting £10bn to be spunked tomorrow.
    Funded by a Windfall Tax. (Or Special Economic Operation) as it will be known.

    £10bn across 70 million people is £143 per person. Scale that up depending on how laser-like the focus is going to be.

    The energy price cap went up by about £700 last month and is expected to go up by another £700 in the autumn.

    The government can't not do this, but I'm not sure it's going to solve their problem.
    Yeah, concentrate it on the pensioners.
    If it's say pensioners and UC recipients, that gives about 12 million + 5 million; spread £10 billion across them, and it's £600 per person, just over a tenner a week. It's a meaningful amount, but not enough to undo the recent and incoming pain.

    I'm not sure there is much the government can do.

    Good luck, everyone.
    So - I ask once again, what about people on benefits who are not UC? ESA, DLA, PIP, Carers?????

    I think UC is becoming shorthand in media and policy circles for everyone on benefits when it is not.
    That's the choice the government have to make (to govern is to choose and all that).

    If £10 billion is really all they have, you either give a meaningful amount to the most needy, or less to more people. Or you magic up more money from somewhere. I don't know. I'm just a physics teacher doing order-of-magnitude estimates. Maybe I should have gone to work in Downing Street under Dom C.

    The key thing is that £10 billion isn't that much money on a country-sized scale. If you won £150 in a lottery, you would be pleased, but it wouldn't be life-changing. If you had an unexpected bill of £150, it would be annoying, but unless you were at the bottom of the pile, it would probably not be the end of the world.

    Unfortunately for all of us, the problems incoming are more than £150 a head.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    Biden won. Yet Americans are still animated and angered by the attempt to sabotage American democracy in DC


    Ditto the UK and the 2nd voter Trumpites. For me. I admit I am quite rare in my anger. But I reckon that’s because I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    There would have been an even more overwhelming vote for out?
    I think you're right. (Except on the nitpicky aspect that for the second vote to be 'even more overwhelming' the first vote would have to have been 'overwhelming' - which I don't think we could claim.) There would have been some churn between leave, remain and dnv - but I think the biggest movement would have been the 'stop titting about' bloc exemplified by the likes of Big G. His view is representative of a lot of pensioners I know.
    If the electorate is asked twice, they usually make it very clear that they got it right the first time, no matter how tight the first result was.

    For example, the Winchester by-election in 1997.

    My view is that a "People's Vote" would have ended up at 60:40 or 66:33 for Leave, as people like BigG, HYUFD, and even that LibDem MP down in Eastbourne all basically said "Nah, we've got to respect the will of the people."

    Ironically, it might therefore have actually healed a lot of division.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    ·
    3h
    PM Johnson defends alcohol-fuelled Downing St leaving parties and his "leadership duty" to attend them. It's a new line -- and new nonsense. I left the BBC after 25 years during lockdown. There was never any question of a leaving party. We all knew it would be against the rules.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1529476011183726593
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979


    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    ·
    3h
    PM Johnson defends alcohol-fuelled Downing St leaving parties and his "leadership duty" to attend them. It's a new line -- and new nonsense. I left the BBC after 25 years during lockdown. There was never any question of a leaving party. We all knew it would be against the rules.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1529476011183726593

    Maybe they just didn't want to throw a party for him? :)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
    It’s a very odd obsession from someone whose side won.
    And utterly undemocratic.
    Biden won. Yet Americans are still animated and angered by the attempt to sabotage American democracy in DC


    Ditto the UK and the 2nd voter Trumpites. For me. I admit I am quite rare in my anger. But I reckon that’s because I’m one of the few people who has sat down and thought through what would have happened if the 2nd voters had prevailed
    There would have been an even more overwhelming vote for out?
    I think you're right. (Except on the nitpicky aspect that for the second vote to be 'even more overwhelming' the first vote would have to have been 'overwhelming' - which I don't think we could claim.) There would have been some churn between leave, remain and dnv - but I think the biggest movement would have been the 'stop titting about' bloc exemplified by the likes of Big G. His view is representative of a lot of pensioners I know.
    If the electorate is asked twice, they usually make it very clear that they got it right the first time, no matter how tight the first result was.

    For example, the Winchester by-election in 1997.

    My view is that a "People's Vote" would have ended up at 60:40 or 66:33 for Leave, as people like BigG, HYUFD, and even that LibDem MP down in Eastbourne all basically said "Nah, we've got to respect the will of the people."

    Ironically, it might therefore have actually healed a lot of division.
    That was the main reason I thought a second vote was pointless. There was no evidence that it would produce a different result. So it was a complete waste of time and effort.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,263
    There seems to be a pandemic of stupidity where you keep getting these vox pops of the public like Borg drones repeating the same pathetic excuses as to why they keep supporting the clown .

This discussion has been closed.