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The betting chart that says BoJo’s survived PartyGate – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 3 in General
imageThe betting chart that says BoJo’s survived PartyGate – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    I think that betting chart is wrong 😉
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    He has lived through the Great War 1914-17.

    Lying to parliament next
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    I think that betting chart is wrong 😉

    Then you know what to do. Laying 2024 looks sense to me
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398

    Not sure this press conference was a good idea

    It is difficult to watch and his mps must be in turmoil

    Is he making a botch of it, Big G?
    It's just an absolutely massive pair of bollocks.

    The man has no shame.
    Unfortunately I now refuse to watch or listen to him, as I know he will be lying and/or incoherent, so I must rely on accounts from PB.
    Big G is right. The close it all off presenting context at a prssser has opened up all manner of horrors.

    A VONC is definitely likely in my opinion, I disagree with Mike Smithson, the mood of some of them is now call it and see who comes, they’ve nothing to lose now, winning the vonc merely a bonus in some minds now in this position the worst thing is not to try at all.

    Although the conference was a car crash for Johnson, and he knew it he couldn’t wait to escape, that bizarre mix of acting humble with borderline contempt and anger made it compulsive viewing.

    To go back to Big G post, what are his MPs thinking having endured today knowing their constituents watching same thing? The big take of today is Partygate isn’t over, press clearly got him nailed on the flat party not investigated and concluded on (Pippa and MPWest must be speaking together off record) so I make that AT LEAST 3 FPNs Boris will end up with.

    But it’s not just Partygate not going away unless they remove Boris the MPs have to weigh up, but that government economic strategy and economic management isn’t working, fresh PM fresh government turned page on the economic ideas and plans would be really helpful to the Conservative party right now as well as they look to fight back at next election.
    The presser was so funny as well though, it seemed to have story development, it started so bland and cringeworthy, then it seemed to roll out of control, with plot twists, like way up stream or Worlds end, like deliverance he was fleeing from a murderous mob at the end 😂
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 584
    First Past The Post : (Updated 16:25hrs)

    1. Charlie Falconer to finish his speech - 150/1
    2. Boris To Resign in 2022 - 5000/1
    3. Elvis To Escape The B52 On The Moon - 7/2
    4. "Leon" To Reincarnate As Sir Beer Karma - 1/5 Fav
    5. Putin To Centrefold In Gay Times - 69/1
    6. OGH To Defect To Conservatives - Non Runner.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420
    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    IshmaelZ said:

    I think that betting chart is wrong 😉

    Then you know what to do. Laying 2024 looks sense to me
    I got a good price in January in 2022 exit, with three figure win.

    I can understand Boris ambition to be Primeminister, though it should come before putting yourself before country and party, there should be more honour than that - but I can’t understand why anyone else would want him to be Primeminister, because he is so rubbish at the job. 🤷‍♀️

    As Mike Smithson reminds, Johnson so lucky to have been up against Corbyn, but even so Boris would never have got near an eighty seat majority if the voters had seen him in the job for two years before an election. That’s true isn’t it?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722
    Treasury statement tomorrow confirmed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Even when adjusting for healthcare costs?
    I live in LA - if you are in a salaried role, then healthcare (in 99% of cases) come with the job. So long as you never become unemployed (or at least not until you're eligible for Medicare), then you're fine. Of course, one could argue that this is just a hidden tax (in that the employer will need to pay you less), but that's another story.

    I have found US taxes - in general - to be higher than the UK. My property tax is astronomical, and California + Los Angeles + Federal taxes are across the board higher for both income and capital gains.

    On the other hand, there are some truly ridiculous tax breaks here. I am allowed to depreciate rental properties (and to count the depreciation as a real cost); this means that rental properties can be generating you an income... and at the same time lowering your actual tax bill. It's truly magic.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722

    IshmaelZ said:

    I think that betting chart is wrong 😉

    Then you know what to do. Laying 2024 looks sense to me
    I got a good price in January in 2022 exit, with three figure win.

    I can understand Boris ambition to be Primeminister, though it should come before putting yourself before country and party, there should be more honour than that - but I can’t understand why anyone else would want him to be Primeminister, because he is so rubbish at the job. 🤷‍♀️

    As Mike Smithson reminds, Johnson so lucky to have been up against Corbyn, but even so Boris would never have got near an eighty seat majority if the voters had seen him in the job for two years before an election. That’s true isn’t it?
    They loved him for the first two years. And a bit.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    Karaoke choices for next No. 10 piss-up:

    - 24 Hour Party People
    - It Wasn't Me
    - (You're an) Embarrassment
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    dixiedean said:

    Treasury statement tomorrow confirmed.

    They should just get Rach to deliver it, since it will be a list of Labour policies.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Is he safe? It doesn't need 54 letters to Brady at this stage, it could need a mere additional 6 or do. 'Safe' is the impression that there is no new groundswell against him, and that much is right, but a groundswell may not be needed.

    180 + of his mps have to vote him out

    The question is are there that number at present
    If there are 54 who wish to force all their fellow MPs to stare into the Untempered Schism that is Boris's continued leadership, then I think it would be brave to predict, even if those rebels don't have any confidence 180 are on their side today, that the majority will opt to be consumed by that madness.
    I think that is spot on. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear any moment in the next week they have the letters in. Wether it’s a win or not is immaterial to some of them now.

    It just feels like something is going to happen. change of Boris and the cabinet the only way the party can escape partygate and have a fresh approach at a sane and effective economic strategy. And they could ‘t really have know that till today.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    dixiedean said:

    Treasury statement tomorrow confirmed.

    They should just get Rach to deliver it, since it will be a list of Labour policies.
    That would be a short statement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Even when adjusting for healthcare costs?
    I live in LA - if you are in a salaried role, then healthcare (in 99% of cases) come with the job. So long as you never become unemployed (or at least not until you're eligible for Medicare), then you're fine. Of course, one could argue that this is just a hidden tax (in that the employer will need to pay you less), but that's another story.

    I have found US taxes - in general - to be higher than the UK. My property tax is astronomical, and California + Los Angeles + Federal taxes are across the board higher for both income and capital gains.

    On the other hand, there are some truly ridiculous tax breaks here. I am allowed to depreciate rental properties (and to count the depreciation as a real cost); this means that rental properties can be generating you an income... and at the same time lowering your actual tax bill. It's truly magic.
    That is indeed what’s meant by the US being a capitalist society. :smile:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    Emma Raducanu speaking to the media - has she received voice coaching from Andy Murray?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    edited May 25
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Even when adjusting for healthcare costs?
    I live in LA - if you are in a salaried role, then healthcare (in 99% of cases) come with the job. So long as you never become unemployed (or at least not until you're eligible for Medicare), then you're fine. Of course, one could argue that this is just a hidden tax (in that the employer will need to pay you less), but that's another story.

    I have found US taxes - in general - to be higher than the UK. My property tax is astronomical, and California + Los Angeles + Federal taxes are across the board higher for both income and capital gains.

    On the other hand, there are some truly ridiculous tax breaks here. I am allowed to depreciate rental properties (and to count the depreciation as a real cost); this means that rental properties can be generating you an income... and at the same time lowering your actual tax bill. It's truly magic.
    I currently have no US capital gains to be taxed, nor US property either. So it’s straight income tax for me…

    The equation may change in time, although I still think it hard to imagine the US taxing more given the 45p top rate + NI in the UK.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,163
    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    I love how in the middle of the table loaded with booze there is a bottle of hand sanitiser.

    I suppose if they ran out of gin they could try to drink it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    Applicant said:

    dixiedean said:

    Treasury statement tomorrow confirmed.

    They should just get Rach to deliver it, since it will be a list of Labour policies.
    That would be a short statement.
    Meow!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I think that betting chart is wrong 😉

    Then you know what to do. Laying 2024 looks sense to me
    I got a good price in January in 2022 exit, with three figure win.

    I can understand Boris ambition to be Primeminister, though it should come before putting yourself before country and party, there should be more honour than that - but I can’t understand why anyone else would want him to be Primeminister, because he is so rubbish at the job. 🤷‍♀️

    As Mike Smithson reminds, Johnson so lucky to have been up against Corbyn, but even so Boris would never have got near an eighty seat majority if the voters had seen him in the job for two years before an election. That’s true isn’t it?
    They loved him for the first two years. And a bit.
    My point being, they didn’t really know him. They elected the Boris sold to them, they havn’t elected the real Boris, the one from that press conference who even now is standing there are lying, not least to Pippa Creare question when he was unable to look into the camera and looked so shifty.

    Let us remind us what he said, in summing up,some context here, presented with rubbish everywhere, win wine stains, vomit, people asleep in the office at dawn having triggered alarms and abused cleaning staff and security (soooo Thick Of It) all Boris answered with was, we failed to get the line right between work and non work. 😧
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Public services in the US are rubbish because taxes are low.
    The New York metro is pretty good.

    (FWIW, I will be in NYC in just a few short hours! First time in a year.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722
    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Public services in the US are rubbish because taxes are low.
    The New York metro is pretty good.

    (FWIW, I will be in NYC in just a few short hours! First time in a year.)
    The New York metro is awful.
    Filthy compared with London.

    Welcome to Noooo Yaawwwk.
    It’s a very pleasant day today.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,418

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    If it's anything like the last plan, it would involve getting John Major's Tories in for 5 years beforehand to create another golden economic legacy to then piss up the wall. That seems like a slow burn strategy.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,210
    Thanks to Johnson for delivering the next Labour Government.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Public services in the US are rubbish because taxes are low.
    The New York metro is pretty good.

    (FWIW, I will be in NYC in just a few short hours! First time in a year.)
    The New York metro is awful.
    Filthy compared with London.

    Welcome to Noooo Yaawwwk.
    It’s a very pleasant day today.
    So, it's filthy. It runs, and it's quick and efficient. I like it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Even when adjusting for healthcare costs?
    I live in LA - if you are in a salaried role, then healthcare (in 99% of cases) come with the job. So long as you never become unemployed (or at least not until you're eligible for Medicare), then you're fine. Of course, one could argue that this is just a hidden tax (in that the employer will need to pay you less), but that's another story.

    I have found US taxes - in general - to be higher than the UK. My property tax is astronomical, and California + Los Angeles + Federal taxes are across the board higher for both income and capital gains.

    On the other hand, there are some truly ridiculous tax breaks here. I am allowed to depreciate rental properties (and to count the depreciation as a real cost); this means that rental properties can be generating you an income... and at the same time lowering your actual tax bill. It's truly magic.
    I currently have no US capital gains to be taxed, nor US property either. So it’s straight income tax for me…

    The equation may change in time, although I still think it hard to imagine the US taxing more given the 45p top rate + NI in the UK.
    How does a rental property depreciate?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712
    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

    I hope not.

    I’m not a massive fan, but it would be detrimental to public life for him to go for something perfectly legal.

    If he were to go in a year and hand over to Nandy I’d be quite happy
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    edited May 25
    Anyway. I shall calm myself with a gin

    Come on down. You’re welcome. There’s plenty of room. I’m going to miss this view




    I STRONGLY recommend Epirus. Northwest mainland Greece. It’s better than any of the Islands, it’s full of mountains and myth, the coast is nearly entirely unspoiled, and it’s mostly very cheap. Lush
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

    Likely to boost the Lab polling if it happens.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Even when adjusting for healthcare costs?
    I live in LA - if you are in a salaried role, then healthcare (in 99% of cases) come with the job. So long as you never become unemployed (or at least not until you're eligible for Medicare), then you're fine. Of course, one could argue that this is just a hidden tax (in that the employer will need to pay you less), but that's another story.

    I have found US taxes - in general - to be higher than the UK. My property tax is astronomical, and California + Los Angeles + Federal taxes are across the board higher for both income and capital gains.

    On the other hand, there are some truly ridiculous tax breaks here. I am allowed to depreciate rental properties (and to count the depreciation as a real cost); this means that rental properties can be generating you an income... and at the same time lowering your actual tax bill. It's truly magic.
    I currently have no US capital gains to be taxed, nor US property either. So it’s straight income tax for me…

    The equation may change in time, although I still think it hard to imagine the US taxing more given the 45p top rate + NI in the UK.
    How does a rental property depreciate?
    The US tax code assumes that all property depreciates by a certain percentage, you could reframe this as maintenance costs.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 8,968

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Labour do not appear to me to have the political nous and determination to win the next general election. So the detail of the policies they might come up with are interesting only in the same theoretical way as imagining how Jimmy Anderson might have fared if he'd had the chance to bowl to Bradman.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

    I hope not.

    I’m not a massive fan, but it would be detrimental to public life for him to go for something perfectly legal.

    If he were to go in a year and hand over to Nandy I’d be quite happy
    He would only go if issued a FPN? So it would have been deemed to have not been legal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Well that was another pack of lies at the press conference.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,597

    Thanks to Johnson for delivering the next Labour Government.

    The key voter demographic are homeowners over 55 years of age.

    We are (most likely) not heading for a Labour Government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    RobD said:

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

    I hope not.

    I’m not a massive fan, but it would be detrimental to public life for him to go for something perfectly legal.

    If he were to go in a year and hand over to Nandy I’d be quite happy
    He would only go if issued a FPN? So it would have been deemed to have not been legal.
    He should challenge it in court.

    The former head of DPP in court would be a bit popcorn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983

    Emma Raducanu speaking to the media - has she received voice coaching from Andy Murray?

    More likely Tim Henman, on what it is to be a perpetual disappointment....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,163
    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    Leon said:

    Anyway. I shall call myself with a gin

    Come on down. You’re welcome. There’s plenty of room. I’m going to miss this view



    I STRONGLY recommend Epirus. Northwest mainland Greece. It’s better than any of the Islands, it’s full of mountains and myth, the coast is nearly entirely unspoiled, and it’s mostly very cheap. Lush

    Don’t you get bored of the same scenes.
    They are very nice, but one Greek island is the same as the other after a while.

    In NZ, much of which is “landscape porn”, people literally go mad after endless longeurs with the same patch of majestic wilderness.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    RobD said:

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

    I hope not.

    I’m not a massive fan, but it would be detrimental to public life for him to go for something perfectly legal.

    If he were to go in a year and hand over to Nandy I’d be quite happy
    He would only go if issued a FPN? So it would have been deemed to have not been legal.
    True.

    If he genuinely is caught breaking the law, he needs to go and good riddance.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731

    Thanks to Johnson for delivering the next Labour Government.

    Ah hubris, welcome my old friend. Long way to go, and labour needs some policies.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    The £20 tomorrow will be entirely about moving media off Johnson's lies over PartyGate and the Sue Gray whitewash report.

    Or Graywash, as we should now call it.

    Not her fault - her two bosses asked her to investigate them whilst she remained their employee.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,482

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Stuff that.

    I'd settle for someone who doesn't lie as a matter of course and has some sort of vision beyond "me and my minions being in power so yah boo sucks."

    Even that feels ambitious right now.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722
    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    As indeed is "levelling up". Although a great deal of that is theoretical as it is largely a slogan.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    Mark Spencer
    @Mark_Spencer
    ·
    2h
    Met investigation over, Sue Gray report delivered, its now clearly time to move on and deal with the huge global challenges the country faces. I’m squarely behind the PM, he’s the right man for the job.
    He has consistently made the big calls correctly

    https://twitter.com/Mark_Spencer/status/1529454719042826240

    ===

    Translation: every policy decision and announcement we make in next month will be all about distracting you from the Partygate saga.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983

    Sad person that I am, I've actually read the Gray Report. From accounts on here and elsewhere, it would appear that most people have just looked at the photos (hi, Leon), which are indeed underwhelming.

    But the Report itself is hugely damning. It's quite clear from the transcripts of emails and messages, and from Gray's commentary, that the misbehaviour/rule-breaking was widespread, that both the organisers and many of the participants knew that what they were doing was wrong, and that unless BJ was in solitary confinement he knew exactly what was going on, even when he didn't participate.

    I don't expect him to go, but I'm not convinced this is quite over yet. MPs who take their time and have a leisurely read of the Report for themselves may wonder how on earth he can credibly carry on as PM when he exercises so little control over what goes on under his own roof.

    It is recess tomorrow. There is going to be a LOT of stuff on Tory MPs' WhatsApp chat groups over the coming days.

    I suspect we might well reach the tally of letters once Parliament resumes on 6th June.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    As indeed is "levelling up". Although a great deal of that is theoretical as it is largely a slogan.
    It's a pile of non-existent crap which boils down to we might move the House of Lords to Stoke. Then again we wont.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Leon said:

    Anyway. I shall call myself with a gin

    Come on down. You’re welcome. There’s plenty of room. I’m going to miss this view



    I STRONGLY recommend Epirus. Northwest mainland Greece. It’s better than any of the Islands, it’s full of mountains and myth, the coast is nearly entirely unspoiled, and it’s mostly very cheap. Lush

    Don’t you get bored of the same scenes.
    They are very nice, but one Greek island is the same as the other after a while.

    In NZ, much of which is “landscape porn”, people literally go mad after endless longeurs with the same patch of majestic wilderness.
    Are you kidding? Of course I get bored! It’s been a bane of my life, my constant search for newness in case I get bored. Hence the drugs, in part. A mental escape…


    Anyway yes I am moving on in a day or two

    That said some places do entice you to linger. And Sivota, Epirus, is one of them. It’s NOT an island. The mood here is different somehow, Epirus is, in general, a magical corner of the world….
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    Why have all the #10 staff been blurred out from the photos and names omitted from reports? If they were engaged in breaking the law surely we should be allowed to know.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722

    Sad person that I am, I've actually read the Gray Report. From accounts on here and elsewhere, it would appear that most people have just looked at the photos (hi, Leon), which are indeed underwhelming.

    But the Report itself is hugely damning. It's quite clear from the transcripts of emails and messages, and from Gray's commentary, that the misbehaviour/rule-breaking was widespread, that both the organisers and many of the participants knew that what they were doing was wrong, and that unless BJ was in solitary confinement he knew exactly what was going on, even when he didn't participate.

    I don't expect him to go, but I'm not convinced this is quite over yet. MPs who take their time and have a leisurely read of the Report for themselves may wonder how on earth he can credibly carry on as PM when he exercises so little control over what goes on under his own roof.

    It is recess tomorrow. There is going to be a LOT of stuff on Tory MPs' WhatsApp chat groups over the coming days.

    I suspect we might well reach the tally of letters once Parliament resumes on 6th June.
    Depends what is delivered tomorrow.
    I expect cash to be liberally sprayed in every direction.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923


    Mark Spencer
    @Mark_Spencer
    ·
    2h
    Met investigation over, Sue Gray report delivered, its now clearly time to move on and deal with the huge global challenges the country faces. I’m squarely behind the PM, he’s the right man for the job.
    He has consistently made the big calls correctly

    https://twitter.com/Mark_Spencer/status/1529454719042826240

    ===

    Translation: every policy decision and announcement we make in next month will be all about distracting you from the Partygate saga.

    Frank Spencer has more credibility.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430
    dixiedean said:

    Sad person that I am, I've actually read the Gray Report. From accounts on here and elsewhere, it would appear that most people have just looked at the photos (hi, Leon), which are indeed underwhelming.

    But the Report itself is hugely damning. It's quite clear from the transcripts of emails and messages, and from Gray's commentary, that the misbehaviour/rule-breaking was widespread, that both the organisers and many of the participants knew that what they were doing was wrong, and that unless BJ was in solitary confinement he knew exactly what was going on, even when he didn't participate.

    I don't expect him to go, but I'm not convinced this is quite over yet. MPs who take their time and have a leisurely read of the Report for themselves may wonder how on earth he can credibly carry on as PM when he exercises so little control over what goes on under his own roof.

    It is recess tomorrow. There is going to be a LOT of stuff on Tory MPs' WhatsApp chat groups over the coming days.

    I suspect we might well reach the tally of letters once Parliament resumes on 6th June.
    Depends what is delivered tomorrow.
    I expect cash to be liberally sprayed in every direction.
    No harm in a bit more inflation, surely?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    I understand the report came out today, but I still think the site overplays partygate, and underplays cost of living.

    Looking at the economic runes, I don't see how the coming winter is not the winter from hell for the tories.

    First a Rail strike then other sectors, including NHS. Welcome to the Seventies.
    I dreaded this.

    It’s partly why I moved to New York.
    Yes, there was a big pull (ie a job), but also a decent push.

    I truly think the UK is buggered through the 2020s. This is on top of being quite buggered in the 2010s.

    I know the cheap rejoinder is that the US is no better, or even worse, but at least I earn more, and my taxes are lower. I need to think about my protecting my income/wealth for retirement, which I hope to do in my 50s.
    Even when adjusting for healthcare costs?
    I live in LA - if you are in a salaried role, then healthcare (in 99% of cases) come with the job. So long as you never become unemployed (or at least not until you're eligible for Medicare), then you're fine. Of course, one could argue that this is just a hidden tax (in that the employer will need to pay you less), but that's another story.

    I have found US taxes - in general - to be higher than the UK. My property tax is astronomical, and California + Los Angeles + Federal taxes are across the board higher for both income and capital gains.

    On the other hand, there are some truly ridiculous tax breaks here. I am allowed to depreciate rental properties (and to count the depreciation as a real cost); this means that rental properties can be generating you an income... and at the same time lowering your actual tax bill. It's truly magic.
    I currently have no US capital gains to be taxed, nor US property either. So it’s straight income tax for me…

    The equation may change in time, although I still think it hard to imagine the US taxing more given the 45p top rate + NI in the UK.
    How does a rental property depreciate?
    When much of US the tax code was written, the land cost of a property was a small component of the price of a house. And in the US, for much of it, it is assumed that you teardown the house every few decades and start again.

    So your rental property will lose value (rentability) until you "reset" it by rebuilding.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Nigelb said:

    Well that was another pack of lies at the press conference.

    I stopped watching after a few minutes. Just embarrassing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    dixiedean said:

    Sad person that I am, I've actually read the Gray Report. From accounts on here and elsewhere, it would appear that most people have just looked at the photos (hi, Leon), which are indeed underwhelming.

    But the Report itself is hugely damning. It's quite clear from the transcripts of emails and messages, and from Gray's commentary, that the misbehaviour/rule-breaking was widespread, that both the organisers and many of the participants knew that what they were doing was wrong, and that unless BJ was in solitary confinement he knew exactly what was going on, even when he didn't participate.

    I don't expect him to go, but I'm not convinced this is quite over yet. MPs who take their time and have a leisurely read of the Report for themselves may wonder how on earth he can credibly carry on as PM when he exercises so little control over what goes on under his own roof.

    It is recess tomorrow. There is going to be a LOT of stuff on Tory MPs' WhatsApp chat groups over the coming days.

    I suspect we might well reach the tally of letters once Parliament resumes on 6th June.
    Depends what is delivered tomorrow.
    I expect cash to be liberally sprayed in every direction.
    Somebody new might as well get the credit from the public...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,662
    edited May 25
    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    I see you enjoy recycling his excrement.
    I am perfectly sincere. You may find my opinions execrable or idiotic or bizarre, but I am not generating fake outrage, I am sincerely outraged. I now understand how some Americans feel about Trump

    When I look back at what the 2nd Voters tried to do to British democracy I lose it. I find it hard to stay calm. They should all be driven from public life, and probably put in jail. It sickens me. This is probably not good for me, but there it is.

    Perhaps the poison will not be drained from British politics until all the major players in Brexit - Leave and Remain - have left the scene. That means Boris and Korma have to go. So be it. That’s fine with me

    But the Remoaning 2nd voters have to quit AND BE PUNISHED, so that no one ever ever tries this again
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 18,405
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    The sad thing about all this for me, is that I used to think politics and parliament mattered.

    Despite big differences in values and priorities, I used to think the other side, however misguided, were at least sincere and trying in their own way to improve things. I used to argue with people to convince them to engage and give it all a chance. Occasionally time proved the other side right.

    What a waste of time. Right now for No10, politics is a game played for laughs and personal gain. An ego trip in which, we the public, are just pawns and our livelihoods the betting chips.

    The sooner Boris goes the better, but the damage is probably done.

    Perhaps your side shouldn’t have tried to cancel democracy by calling for a 2nd vote, and ignoring the biggest mandate in British political history, and all of it organised by your esteemed Sir Beer Korma, who is now your fucking LEADER, not hiding away in shame, as he should be. And you have the gall to prate on about trust and integrity? What the 2nd voters tried to do - a Trumpite coup - absolutely dwarfs any of Boris’ sordid little lies. At least he is a democrat

    Grrr. Enough. Let Boris thrash you again, and again, and again. C’mon Big Dog
    QED.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    RobD said:

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    Keir may be gone in weeks.

    I hope not.

    I’m not a massive fan, but it would be detrimental to public life for him to go for something perfectly legal.

    If he were to go in a year and hand over to Nandy I’d be quite happy
    He would only go if issued a FPN? So it would have been deemed to have not been legal.
    "Deemed" to have been not legal by a mid ranking copper, does not mean not legal. There is less magic in the word "deemed" than non-lawyers sometimes suppose.

    Especially if the deeming process is that which the Met seem to have adopted: Send questionnaire - did you break the law? Yes = gotcha. No response: well he prolly didn't, but forgot to tell us about it, so let's leave it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,620
    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    edited May 25
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/25/gray-report-paints-damning-portrait-boris-johnson

    Graun analysis of Ms Gray's report:

    "As with so many things about the saga, this sense of almost irrelevance in Johnson’s role will be interpreted in markedly different ways by opposing sides of the argument.

    But even for allies, the sheer extent of detail in the report makes this notably more difficult to defend. [sordid details ...]

    This ultimately leaves two choices for those in Johnson’s camp. One is that he misled the country when he said he had no knowledge about parties. The other implies Johnson is so detached, dissociated and peripheral that the office he supposedly leads became the most Covid-rule-breaking address in England while he remained oblivious.

    Neither is the ideal place in which a national leader should find themselves."

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,780

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    As indeed is "levelling up". Although a great deal of that is theoretical as it is largely a slogan.
    It's a pile of non-existent crap which boils down to we might move the House of Lords to Stoke. Then again we wont.
    There's more chance of them moving Stoke to the House of Lords than the other way round.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Sorry to hear all this. I certainly share your anger with these feckers, although I'm not quite at lampposts level yet.

    I can barely watch Johnson on TV now.

    Worst PM in god knows how many decades.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994
    dixiedean said:

    Sad person that I am, I've actually read the Gray Report. From accounts on here and elsewhere, it would appear that most people have just looked at the photos (hi, Leon), which are indeed underwhelming.

    But the Report itself is hugely damning. It's quite clear from the transcripts of emails and messages, and from Gray's commentary, that the misbehaviour/rule-breaking was widespread, that both the organisers and many of the participants knew that what they were doing was wrong, and that unless BJ was in solitary confinement he knew exactly what was going on, even when he didn't participate.

    I don't expect him to go, but I'm not convinced this is quite over yet. MPs who take their time and have a leisurely read of the Report for themselves may wonder how on earth he can credibly carry on as PM when he exercises so little control over what goes on under his own roof.

    It is recess tomorrow. There is going to be a LOT of stuff on Tory MPs' WhatsApp chat groups over the coming days.

    I suspect we might well reach the tally of letters once Parliament resumes on 6th June.
    Depends what is delivered tomorrow.
    I expect cash to be liberally sprayed in every direction.
    If he wants it to change polling figures it needs to be significant enough to put Labour off their stride and targetted at the poorest. Tax cut starting tapering out at over 30k income, increase to UC etc, minimum pension increase, VAT completely off of all essentials.
    Reeves can then squirm about 600 quid and buttons.

    I expect it to be damp and squibby
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,375

    Personally I no longer care about whether Boris goes or not.

    I feel like a (narrow) Tory defeat is pretty much baked in.

    Keir may not be Blair, but nor is he Corbyn or even Miliband.

    I’m much more interested in Labour policy now. I’m keen to see what the plan is (if any) to return the UK into the growth-oriented, public-spirited country I enjoyed for much of the 2000s.

    All leaders are unique and I don't like the idea of pigeon-holing each leader as a previous one.

    That said, if I had to say one I'd say Kinnock. He's making the party more electable and challenging its recent past (despite being a part of the recent past) but I just don't see him getting to Downing Street himself. Instead he's clearing the path for someone else.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    edited May 25

    Why have all the #10 staff been blurred out from the photos and names omitted from reports? If they were engaged in breaking the law surely we should be allowed to know.

    Appeals against FPNs not ruled out?

    And it would be against the rules for someone to be outed [edit] by the CS itself (ie Ms G) as having committed an offence before the formal disciplinary action and any appeal within the CS disciplinary process were carried out or ruled out, one way or another.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Well that sucks.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,315
    "A boatload of asylum seekers intercepted by Australian Border Force near Christmas Island on election day has now been returned to Sri Lanka.

    The commander of Operation Sovereign Borders, Rear Admiral Justin Jones, said a thorough screening of each individual's health and protection status was completed before the group was taken back.

    "The direction to me, by the Acting Prime Minister, was clear — this government remains committed to Operation Sovereign Borders and to the protection of lives at sea," he said in a statement."

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-24/election-blog-may-24/101093332
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697
    Carnyx said:

    Why have all the #10 staff been blurred out from the photos and names omitted from reports? If they were engaged in breaking the law surely we should be allowed to know.

    Appeals against FPNs not ruled out?

    And it would be against the rules for someone to be outed [edit] by the CS itself (ie Ms G) as having committed an offence before the formal disciplinary action and any appeal within the CS disciplinary process were carried out or ruled out, one way or another.
    Gray did explain all of this in her report:

    "This brings me to the question of names. This has not been easy. It is well established convention that the names of senior civil servants are not routinely withheld in Government disclosures. I have broadly followed this convention here, but given the unique circumstances of this investigation I have decided that naming should be only for the most high-ranking individuals who knew about and/or attended an event, as well as those senior civil servants or special advisers who were significant to the organisation of such gatherings, given their wider responsibility for the leadership and culture of the Departments, subject to some limited exceptions based on personal circumstances. I have determined that the public interest in reporting adequately on the events withing [sic] the scope of my investigation in accordance with my terms of reference justifies naming senior individuals involved to this limited extent."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962

    I see moving on to "tackle the big challenges" is the official line from Whips that all MPs must now tweet in next three hours.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    I'd recommend Switzerland, the timezones are better for contributing to PB.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,597

    I don't expect him to go, but I'm not convinced this is quite over yet. MPs who take their time and have a leisurely read of the Report for themselves may wonder how on earth he can credibly carry on as PM when he exercises so little control over what goes on under his own roof.

    They will make a calculation about what it best for their careers and nothing else. Probity doesn't come into it. Shame certainly doesn't.

    They don't have any shame. Generally speaking, politicians don't. If they did, they couldn't function. Most Labour MPs tolerated Corbyn because they lacked the strength to seize the party back off him, and they knew that leaving on moral grounds equalled political career death, as the fates of Luciana Berger, Chuka Umunna et al. so ably demonstrated. The only way to be rid of him was through his decisive electoral defeat.

    I reckon that the Tories will look at Johnson, his ability to survive scandal and his skill (real or imagined) in connecting with the party's new voter coalition, and decide to keep him. The minority who've publicly called for him to go will all, or nearly all, stay put anyway, because they refuse to be forced out of their party by his behaviour, or they fear going the way of the Change UK lot, or both. A couple more in Con-Lab marginals might follow Wakeford across the floor, albeit the fact that they've not done it before now suggests that this is unlikely. That's about it.

    Fundamentally, the Conservative polling position isn't too bad for a mid-term Government, and all the voters who were going to dump the party over, well, the parties have already done so. The Tories will likely spend the rest of this Parliament trying not to upset their aged core vote too much, hosing them down with cash as and when required, and have a good chance of winning the next election. The Conservative backbenches won't rock the boat by chucking the Prime Minister overboard under these circumstances. He's safe.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    As indeed is "levelling up". Although a great deal of that is theoretical as it is largely a slogan.
    It's a pile of non-existent crap which boils down to we might move the House of Lords to Stoke. Then again we wont.
    There's more chance of them moving Stoke to the House of Lords than the other way round.
    Other than irritating their Lordships, and a reason to defer a decision (again), I cannot think why that was even mooted. Gove usually is smarter with his trolling.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,375
    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    The Net Zero target is something rational nobody sane would drop.

    The past few months have shown why we need to get ourselves off the hook of using imported oil and gas etc and instead able to use our own domestic renewables, whether that be wind, tidal, nuclear or others.

    As it stands gas is only providing 26% of our electricity, up from 16% earlier today. Renewables are providing a majority and they are far, far cheaper than the gas is.

    The sooner we can be using zero gas, the cheaper our bills will be, the more secure our energy supply will be. Forget the environment, that is just plain a good idea, even without the environmental agenda.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    The Net Zero target alone is an enormous powder keg. Sacrosanct for some, total anathema to others.
    As indeed is "levelling up". Although a great deal of that is theoretical as it is largely a slogan.
    It's a pile of non-existent crap which boils down to we might move the House of Lords to Stoke. Then again we wont.
    There's more chance of them moving Stoke to the House of Lords than the other way round.
    Other than irritating their Lordships, and a reason to defer a decision (again), I cannot think why that was even mooted. Gove usually is smarter with his trolling.
    Move it and impose a min attendance requirement and it might deter a few Lebedevs
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,620
    Fresh Tory MP sticks head above parapet to call for Boris Johnson to go.

    I am hearing from other sources some letters going in from Blue and Red wall MPs.

    Others, however, very skeptical they'll get the numbers to trigger vote of no confidence.

    https://twitter.com/JulianSturdy/status/1529496348445265920
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114

    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962

    I see moving on to "tackle the big challenges" is the official line from Whips that all MPs must now tweet in next three hours.

    On which ... Mr Ross is outdoing himself.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20165550.douglas-ross-calls-boris-johnson-resign-ukraine-war/?ref=ebbn

    "The Moray MP, who said in January that Johnson should resign before U-turning because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, accepts that Johnson should step down … but not until the war in Ukraine is over."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962

    I see moving on to "tackle the big challenges" is the official line from Whips that all MPs must now tweet in next three hours.

    It never seems to occur to minions that the thing that led to an apology might mean the person apologising is not the best person to tackle the big challenges, or indeed might be the cause of them..

    Of course it does occur to them, but they are not allowed to say so.

    Awfully sorry my incompetence led to that raw sewage explosion, would it help if I offered to take the lead on nuclear waste transportation project?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    Where is? Certainly not America. Too many intractable problems. And utterly poisonous politics. Worse than the UK

    Canada is dull, Switzerland is horribly expensive and dull, Australia is the only place maybe. But there you are a trillion miles from anywhere and at the mercy of climate change

    It’s honestly hard to be optimistic about anywhere on earth, at the moment. Which is awful

    I was just reading this climate change fear porn about Pakistan. 51C in May

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/25/it-seems-this-heat-will-take-our-lives-pakistan-city-fearful-jacobabad-after-hitting-51c
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    What time is the "leak" of a possible reshuffle in late June to make its way out to journos?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962

    I see moving on to "tackle the big challenges" is the official line from Whips that all MPs must now tweet in next three hours.

    On which ... Mr Ross is outdoing himself.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20165550.douglas-ross-calls-boris-johnson-resign-ukraine-war/?ref=ebbn

    "The Moray MP, who said in January that Johnson should resign before U-turning because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, accepts that Johnson should step down … but not until the war in Ukraine is over."
    There was literally no benefit to him u-turning. Now he will be detested by No. 10 and not even have grudging respect for courage of his convictions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited May 25
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    Where is? Certainly not America. Too many intractable problems. And utterly poisonous politics. Worse than the UK

    Canada is dull, Switzerland is horribly expensive and dull, Australia is the only place maybe. But there you are a trillion miles from anywhere and at the mercy of climate change

    It’s honestly hard to be optimistic about anywhere on earth, at the moment. Which is awful

    I was just reading this climate change fear porn about Pakistan. 51C in May

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/25/it-seems-this-heat-will-take-our-lives-pakistan-city-fearful-jacobabad-after-hitting-51c
    Canada is also incredibly expensive, especially housing costs * (combined with historically poorer wages than US and higher taxes and a poor NHS). If you work in an industry that pays a lot, you will be ok, but that's true of here.

    * what was the figure, 20x average wages for an average home, and much higher in Vancouver, where you want to be.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088


    Mark Spencer
    @Mark_Spencer
    ·
    2h
    Met investigation over, Sue Gray report delivered, its now clearly time to move on and deal with the huge global challenges the country faces. I’m squarely behind the PM, he’s the right man for the job.
    He has consistently made the big calls correctly

    https://twitter.com/Mark_Spencer/status/1529454719042826240

    ===

    Translation: every policy decision and announcement we make in next month will be all about distracting you from the Partygate saga.

    Also translation - obeying his own Covid guidance was, by my own words, not a big call. So why is he even apologising about it?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    All Labour needs to win is have a manifesto in favour of the young and working population. A fair number of older folk like me would vote for it too, because like @Cyclefree we care about their future more than our own.

    Even if an election is lost on that platform, how much better to have at least tried.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet Ministers are understandably very angry at having to defend a lying asshole again and again and by acknowledging this in a tweet I’ve somehow contrived to draw a line under something that will never change and will remain unforgivable.
    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1529489291830824962

    I see moving on to "tackle the big challenges" is the official line from Whips that all MPs must now tweet in next three hours.

    On which ... Mr Ross is outdoing himself.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20165550.douglas-ross-calls-boris-johnson-resign-ukraine-war/?ref=ebbn

    "The Moray MP, who said in January that Johnson should resign before U-turning because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, accepts that Johnson should step down … but not until the war in Ukraine is over."
    There was literally no benefit to him u-turning. Now he will be detested by No. 10 and not even have grudging respect for courage of his convictions.
    Quite, he has upset everyone (except perhaps the statue of the Duke of Gordon on the monument in Elgin).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    edited May 25
    Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby wades into partygate political row

    Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby said “we need to rediscover” good standards in public life, following the publication of Sue Gray’s report on partygate.

    The archbishop said: “Sue Gray’s report shows that culture, behaviour and standards in public life really matter.

    “We need to be able to trust our national institutions, particularly in times of great trouble.

    “Jesus commands us to serve the most vulnerable and those in need. To help achieve this, we must recover the principles of mutual flourishing and the common good in the way we are governed.

    “Standards in public life are the glue that holds us together – we need to rediscover them and abide by them.”
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,000
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    Foxy said:

    Maybe survived Partygate, but plenty more room for events in 2022.

    When you look at the differences in approach between Baker/Harper and (say) Chris Skidmore/Zac Goldsmith, the ousting of Johnson could create a vicious and profound policy civil war in the tory party.

    Many tory MPs are I suspect absolutely terrified of having that conflict. And so they cling on.
    I agree. There really is no concept for what the Tory Party is for. It's been Brexit since the referendum, with a Civil War over that. Before that it was austerity.
    What is it now?
    A leadership election may have to attempt to answer that question.
    That's the problem. The Tory Party is for the preservation of Boris Johnson and the enrichment of its friends and patrons. That's all. There is no policy platform, no ideological clarity, no mission to deliver.

    Just watch tomorrow. They're going to stick £20 back on UC after screaming the place down about how keeping the uplift was profoundly wrong. They're going to scalp money from energy producers and use it to subsidise energy retailers. Which was described as "anti-Conservative". The more they send liars and idiots (from the Cabinet) onto the media to say its an awful idea, the more you know they will end up doing it.
    Got my letter about my £150 today.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see another one soon.
    There'll be an almighty ejaculation of cash.
    And a claim that they're the tax cutting Party.
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but tangentially related.

    It looks as if the Financial Ombudsman is not going to support my daughter in her claim against her insurers in relation to the expensive insurance policy she took out against diseases like Covid.

    Despite the House of Lords case, despite providing evidence that 2 people visited her pub with the disease before she was shut down. Apparently, because they did not have symptoms the policy does not bite. The fact that people with symptoms were being told not to go out is irrelevant.

    Grr..... Honestly I am so furious and so sad for her. In this country if you work hard - and, Christ, she worked harder than anyone I've seen before - and do the right thing, you just get shafted. Your money is taken but you get fuck all back for it from those who claim to provide a service. People with Air BnB's locally were getting the same grants as her and then just lying back and using the money to buy more properties so that even with the money she's managed to save she still can't get onto the property ladder because prices have gone up.

    I am angry. I am so angry that I'm in a get me some ropes and lampposts and hang the fuckers from them mood. Peter Hennessy talked recently about a bonfire of the decencies. Too fucking right. She's lost two years of her life having no social life, an appallingly stressful working life, and gets screwed over with few good prospects ahead because now we have inflation and a recession on the way. Same for my 2 sons.

    I am sorry for all the swearing. But, fuck it, the people in charge who have made such a fucking awful mess of everything they touch deserve to rot in hell for what they have done and what they are doing, especially to our young.

    My three are my offering to the future.

    What future?

    🤬

    Seriously, emigrate.
    Maybe to Australia, or Canada, or Switzerland or maybe even to the States.

    The UK is not a good place to be young and hardworking anymore.
    All Labour needs to win is have a manifesto in favour of the young and working population. A fair number of older folk like me would vote for it too, because like @Cyclefree we care about their future more than our own.

    Even if an election is lost on that platform, how much better to have at least tried.
    That was on offer in 2017 & 2019 you both voted against it

    It wont be in 2024
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    I expect an article from the Mail and/or Spiked headlined

    "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
This discussion has been closed.