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Even the oldies are now giving Johnson negative ratings – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    With Pennsylvania’s Republican Senate primary still deadlocked on Wednesday, attention turned to uncounted ballots, including potentially tens of thousands of mail-in votes. Dr. Mehmet Oz was clinging to a small lead of about 2,500 votes, or 0.2 percent, over David McCormick, which could trigger a recount.

    NY Times blog
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Former President Trump is urging celebrity physician Mehmet Oz to declare victory in Pennsylvania’s GOP Senate primary even as the race remains too close to call.

    The Hill
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    It’s the Huns v the Huns.

    Absolutely supporting Rangers because they are a Scottish team and I will always support Scottish teams in Europe (unless they are playing Liverpool) because regardless of anything independence related they are part of our fabric - as a kid I marvelled over Grandstand teleprinter and the scores announcer saying mystical sounding Scottish teams results in the same way I marvelled at Tolkein- Queen of the South, Stenhousemuir, Alloa, Patrick Thistle. Wonderful. Jumpers for goalposts stuff. Forfar 5 - Fife 4.
    Third Lanark


    https://scottishfootballmuseum.org.uk/resources/news/the-tale-of-third-lanark-ac/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited May 2022
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham* And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.

    *Nb doesn’t mean Arsenal thus attract Arabs and NAZI’s! Though Osama Bin Laden attended Arsenal games. Didn’t he?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    But this is why this shit is happening. It is a disaster for the British economy, if it continues

    As an international flintic dildo maker and salesman, I can say it is clearly impacting my industry (seriously). The people that are back in the office are On their Game, they respond quickly, they do their job. The people who are WFH reply much slower, they are less alert in general, and less aware of industry news and gossip, and they are hard to hear on phone calls (“Oh sorry that’s my husband slapping the dog” - GO BACK TO THE FUCKING OFFICE THEN)

    I reckon we are about to discover there is a reason we have big cities and complex offices, and the cities and offices that function properly will entirely out-compete the people sitting in their stupid gardens. This is not an invention of the Tory party because of its commercial property owning donors
    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.
    My view is that people who need constant supervision lest they muck around in the office muck around at home.

    Those that work hard in the office and have busy and demanding jobs work just as hard (if not more so) from home.

    But, if you're over 60 and of a different generation you struggle to understand why any of it isn't a skive. Remote teaming and cloud technologies are just alien to you.
    Thinking back to when my late father had WFH days because of rail strikes. Sure, he could bring home a load of files to read, he could make notes, he could do sums on a Sinclair scientific calculator. But that was about it.

    The realisation of how much Office Stuff can now be done at home, or in a coffee shop, with a laptop and wifi simply wouldn't have occured to him. And Covid is an awfully convenient excuse if a customer starts complaining about rubbish service.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    It’s the Huns v the Huns.

    Absolutely supporting Rangers because they are a Scottish team and I will always support Scottish teams in Europe (unless they are playing Liverpool) because regardless of anything independence related they are part of our fabric - as a kid I marvelled over Grandstand teleprinter and the scores announcer saying mystical sounding Scottish teams results in the same way I marvelled at Tolkein- Queen of the South, Stenhousemuir, Alloa, Patrick Thistle. Wonderful. Jumpers for goalposts stuff. Forfar 5 - Fife 4.
    We are the same generation. Whenever I heard the phrase “Queen of the South” pronounced by Frank Bough I imagined some amazing team of red haired Vikings literally playing on the one patch of flat grass twixt granite peaks, with sporrans on their heads and some kind of blood oath related to the royal family, where they all died if the monarch got a cold

    As for HEARTS OF MIDLOTHIAN they felt like the football equivalent of Rimbaud and Baudelaire

    Having now been to these places, I see the reality is a tiny bit different. Nonetheless as long as Scotland remains a part of our United Kingdom, they are my teams

    Fuck Liverpool
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited May 2022

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    The irony is that a call centre can actually fit really well with both WFH and flexible hours.

    BUT, and it’s a big but, it needs the organisation to be structured differently to an in-person call centre, with processes to match. You need a larger group of both L2 technical agents and supervisors, and the managers need to take a different view of their metrics which requires modern phone and IT systems.

    I get the impression that much of the public sector and quasi-public sector simply went home in March 2020, plugged their desk phone into a router, used their own laptop to connect to a VPN and a Citrix window, but the organisations never specifically set themselves up for WFH.

    A call centre is also a training-heavy environment, and training / teambuilding exercises are best done in person to maintain consistency.
    There were lots of call centres before the pandemic that used staff working from their own homes (with appropriate structures in place). It’s always been a job that is well suited to working from home and to employees wanting different working hours. It’s just we, the consumer, didn’t notice.

    The problem is that private call centres operate on a principle that they need to work effectively or they don't get business so they don't get paid, so they make sure their operations work.

    Public ones - not so much.

    I had a rather worrying encounter a few months ago with the Council for a home I used to live in but moved out of in 2019. I'd paid my Council Tax in full by Direct Debit and had notified them when I moved homes and set up a Direct Debit for my new home but then a few years later got a "final demand" letter for overdue Council Tax for 2020-21. I called them and spoke to someone who was working from home and said that I had moved out before this period so it wasn't me who owed the tax, he told me not to worry, promised to get it resolved and would put a hold on the account until they could figure out what had gone wrong.

    Two months later I got a Court Summons for unpaid Council Tax, with a court date set for what was then 3 weeks time. I tried calling the Council again but after pressing all the relevant options got a message "our queue is full please try again later". That kept happening again and again for two weeks. Tried emailing them, got an autoreply saying they're currently taking an average of 6 weeks to respond to emails, but the Court Summons was for 3 weeks time.

    After a few weeks of calling them every day I eventually got in the queue and through to a human who found my email to them and accepted the proof that I wasn't living at that address for the time in question and the Council had been informed of that. But utterly remarkable that they could take six weeks to respond to an email, but have Court Summons issued for 3 weeks, and the queue 'full'.

    If you call a company like Sky you'll get through to someone probably working from home - but at least you'll get through to someone and they take your issue seriously. At least if you threaten to cancel your contract they do.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    I think Musk is slightly barking and I'd hate to work for him but it doesn't mean he isn't onto something with the Woke mind virus.

    You are the Diet Coke of Woke! Only one calorie, not Woke enough!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    It’s the Huns v the Huns.

    Absolutely supporting Rangers because they are a Scottish team and I will always support Scottish teams in Europe (unless they are playing Liverpool) because regardless of anything independence related they are part of our fabric - as a kid I marvelled over Grandstand teleprinter and the scores announcer saying mystical sounding Scottish teams results in the same way I marvelled at Tolkein- Queen of the South, Stenhousemuir, Alloa, Patrick Thistle. Wonderful. Jumpers for goalposts stuff. Forfar 5 - Fife 4.
    Tolkien?
    I was referring to a different writer, Bobby Tolkien, wrote a lot about Scottish football…….
    Darn site more relevant than writing about nothing but elves. 🙂
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    edited May 2022

    Have I got this right: Tories are now against the windfall tax because it doesn't go far enough?

    Charitable view: fast moving economic crisis which the system hasn't had to deal with for at least 40 years.

    Alternative view: You can see the whites of all the rabbits' eyes in the piercing beam of the highlights.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    It’s the Huns v the Huns.

    Absolutely supporting Rangers because they are a Scottish team and I will always support Scottish teams in Europe (unless they are playing Liverpool) because regardless of anything independence related they are part of our fabric - as a kid I marvelled over Grandstand teleprinter and the scores announcer saying mystical sounding Scottish teams results in the same way I marvelled at Tolkein- Queen of the South, Stenhousemuir, Alloa, Patrick Thistle. Wonderful. Jumpers for goalposts stuff. Forfar 5 - Fife 4.
    Is Scotland the only country with a league team whose name is (consciously) a quotation from the Bible (Jesus no less!) - Matthew 12.42?

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
  • Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    Make sure to pass out on your side so you don't choke on your own vomit.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Embarrassing for Twitter.

    "An audit of ex-President Donald Trump's archived presidential account, @POTUS45, shows that 42.4 percent of his followers are fake
    Almost half of President Biden's Twitter followers are fake, audit reveals as Elon Musk puts deal to buy Big Tech giant on hold over bots
    Just over 49% of Twitter followers of the official @POTUS account are fake
    The same analysis found that more than 14 million accounts who follow Biden's personal @JoeBiden handle are also either fake or insufficiently active
    It comes as Elon Musk took shots at Biden and Twitter at a Miami conference
    The Tesla billionaire accused Twitter's CEO of lying about the company's claim that less than 5% of its more than 200 million accounts are fake"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10829675/Almost-half-President-Bidens-Twitter-followers-FAKE-audit-reveals.html

    It really does look as though he made the bid to take Twitter down.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    But this is why this shit is happening. It is a disaster for the British economy, if it continues

    As an international flintic dildo maker and salesman, I can say it is clearly impacting my industry (seriously). The people that are back in the office are On their Game, they respond quickly, they do their job. The people who are WFH reply much slower, they are less alert in general, and less aware of industry news and gossip, and they are hard to hear on phone calls (“Oh sorry that’s my husband slapping the dog” - GO BACK TO THE FUCKING OFFICE THEN)

    I reckon we are about to discover there is a reason we have big cities and complex offices, and the cities and offices that function properly will entirely out-compete the people sitting in their stupid gardens. This is not an invention of the Tory party because of its commercial property owning donors
    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.
    This should come as a surprise to no-one. Who would want to work in a call centre-type occupation - whether office or home based - if they had a better alternative? And, in a low unemployment environment, better alternatives (consisting of practically every other kind of job imaginable) are easier than usual to come by.

    Then, of course, the harder businesses find it to recruit workers willing to put up with a constant barrage of shouting from enraged customers, the smaller the available pool of call handlers, the worse the service becomes, the more rage the remaining staff have to put up with, and the more likely they are to get out as soon as they can find another minimum wage crap job that's less liable to cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

    It's the sort of vicious cycle that can only be broken by a spike in joblessness that forces workers to endure the misery, for want of anywhere else to go.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    "There are some results still to come, but Tuesday was shaping up to be a solid night for the left wing of the Democratic Party."

    The Hill


    Not sure this bodes well for November...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    But this is why this shit is happening. It is a disaster for the British economy, if it continues

    As an international flintic dildo maker and salesman, I can say it is clearly impacting my industry (seriously). The people that are back in the office are On their Game, they respond quickly, they do their job. The people who are WFH reply much slower, they are less alert in general, and less aware of industry news and gossip, and they are hard to hear on phone calls (“Oh sorry that’s my husband slapping the dog” - GO BACK TO THE FUCKING OFFICE THEN)

    I reckon we are about to discover there is a reason we have big cities and complex offices, and the cities and offices that function properly will entirely out-compete the people sitting in their stupid gardens. This is not an invention of the Tory party because of its commercial property owning donors
    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.
    This should come as a surprise to no-one. Who would want to work in a call centre-type occupation - whether office or home based - if they had a better alternative? And, in a low unemployment environment, better alternatives (consisting of practically every other kind of job imaginable) are easier than usual to come by.

    Then, of course, the harder businesses find it to recruit workers willing to put up with a constant barrage of shouting from enraged customers, the smaller the available pool of call handlers, the worse the service becomes, the more rage the remaining staff have to put up with, and the more likely they are to get out as soon as they can find another minimum wage crap job that's less liable to cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

    It's the sort of vicious cycle that can only be broken by a spike in joblessness that forces workers to endure the misery, for want of anywhere else to go.
    Part of the problem is being behind with technology investment.

    I spent an hour on phone waiting in a queue for a major insurance company earlier this week, merely to update my debit card details, as the card had expired.

    This could be done online.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    News from the by-election front line:

    My train is just pulling in to Wakey Westgate. and none of those baling off look like rapid Yorkshire Party supporters to me.

    (Waves out of train window to Mr Herdson!)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    The irony is that a call centre can actually fit really well with both WFH and flexible hours.

    BUT, and it’s a big but, it needs the organisation to be structured differently to an in-person call centre, with processes to match. You need a larger group of both L2 technical agents and supervisors, and the managers need to take a different view of their metrics which requires modern phone and IT systems.

    I get the impression that much of the public sector and quasi-public sector simply went home in March 2020, plugged their desk phone into a router, used their own laptop to connect to a VPN and a Citrix window, but the organisations never specifically set themselves up for WFH.

    A call centre is also a training-heavy environment, and training / teambuilding exercises are best done in person to maintain consistency.
    There were lots of call centres before the pandemic that used staff working from their own homes (with appropriate structures in place). It’s always been a job that is well suited to working from home and to employees wanting different working hours. It’s just we, the consumer, didn’t notice.

    The problem is that private call centres operate on a principle that they need to work effectively or they don't get business so they don't get paid, so they make sure their operations work.

    Public ones - not so much.

    I had a rather worrying encounter a few months ago with the Council for a home I used to live in but moved out of in 2019. I'd paid my Council Tax in full by Direct Debit and had notified them when I moved homes and set up a Direct Debit for my new home but then a few years later got a "final demand" letter for overdue Council Tax for 2020-21. I called them and spoke to someone who was working from home and said that I had moved out before this period so it wasn't me who owed the tax, he told me not to worry, promised to get it resolved and would put a hold on the account until they could figure out what had gone wrong.

    Two months later I got a Court Summons for unpaid Council Tax, with a court date set for what was then 3 weeks time. I tried calling the Council again but after pressing all the relevant options got a message "our queue is full please try again later". That kept happening again and again for two weeks. Tried emailing them, got an autoreply saying they're currently taking an average of 6 weeks to respond to emails, but the Court Summons was for 3 weeks time.

    After a few weeks of calling them every day I eventually got in the queue and through to a human who found my email to them and accepted the proof that I wasn't living at that address for the time in question and the Council had been informed of that. But utterly remarkable that they could take six weeks to respond to an email, but have Court Summons issued for 3 weeks, and the queue 'full'.

    If you call a company like Sky you'll get through to someone probably working from home - but at least you'll get through to someone and they take your issue seriously. At least if you threaten to cancel your contract they do.
    Some truth in that, the pressures in the public sector are different. There's not much reward to be had by improving customer service (Yourtown Council isn't going to get any more customers), so the only success metric is to cut costs. And beyond a certain point, that means cutting services. Which, to a large extent, is what has happened.

    Now, there are private sector firms that take customer service seriously. John Lewis, Timpsons, Richer Sounds. They do a great job, acceptable face of capitalism and all that. But they tend (not exclusively, but as a tendency) to be pitched a bit above the mass market. Good customer service costs, and a lot of us have been unwilling to pay that necessary cost. Which is fine, until everything goes pearshaped.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    News from the by-election front line:

    My train is just pulling in to Wakey Westgate. and none of those baling off look like rapid Yorkshire Party supporters to me.

    (Waves out of train window to Mr Herdson!)

    Only really slow ones?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    Make sure to pass out on your side so you don't choke on your own vomit.
    Awful comment, but made me laugh! :lol:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
  • Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    The irony is that a call centre can actually fit really well with both WFH and flexible hours.

    BUT, and it’s a big but, it needs the organisation to be structured differently to an in-person call centre, with processes to match. You need a larger group of both L2 technical agents and supervisors, and the managers need to take a different view of their metrics which requires modern phone and IT systems.

    I get the impression that much of the public sector and quasi-public sector simply went home in March 2020, plugged their desk phone into a router, used their own laptop to connect to a VPN and a Citrix window, but the organisations never specifically set themselves up for WFH.

    A call centre is also a training-heavy environment, and training / teambuilding exercises are best done in person to maintain consistency.
    There were lots of call centres before the pandemic that used staff working from their own homes (with appropriate structures in place). It’s always been a job that is well suited to working from home and to employees wanting different working hours. It’s just we, the consumer, didn’t notice.

    The problem is that private call centres operate on a principle that they need to work effectively or they don't get business so they don't get paid, so they make sure their operations work.

    Public ones - not so much.

    I had a rather worrying encounter a few months ago with the Council for a home I used to live in but moved out of in 2019. I'd paid my Council Tax in full by Direct Debit and had notified them when I moved homes and set up a Direct Debit for my new home but then a few years later got a "final demand" letter for overdue Council Tax for 2020-21. I called them and spoke to someone who was working from home and said that I had moved out before this period so it wasn't me who owed the tax, he told me not to worry, promised to get it resolved and would put a hold on the account until they could figure out what had gone wrong.

    Two months later I got a Court Summons for unpaid Council Tax, with a court date set for what was then 3 weeks time. I tried calling the Council again but after pressing all the relevant options got a message "our queue is full please try again later". That kept happening again and again for two weeks. Tried emailing them, got an autoreply saying they're currently taking an average of 6 weeks to respond to emails, but the Court Summons was for 3 weeks time.

    After a few weeks of calling them every day I eventually got in the queue and through to a human who found my email to them and accepted the proof that I wasn't living at that address for the time in question and the Council had been informed of that. But utterly remarkable that they could take six weeks to respond to an email, but have Court Summons issued for 3 weeks, and the queue 'full'.

    If you call a company like Sky you'll get through to someone probably working from home - but at least you'll get through to someone and they take your issue seriously. At least if you threaten to cancel your contract they do.
    Some truth in that, the pressures in the public sector are different. There's not much reward to be had by improving customer service (Yourtown Council isn't going to get any more customers), so the only success metric is to cut costs. And beyond a certain point, that means cutting services. Which, to a large extent, is what has happened.

    Now, there are private sector firms that take customer service seriously. John Lewis, Timpsons, Richer Sounds. They do a great job, acceptable face of capitalism and all that. But they tend (not exclusively, but as a tendency) to be pitched a bit above the mass market. Good customer service costs, and a lot of us have been unwilling to pay that necessary cost. Which is fine, until everything goes pearshaped.
    Even mass market companies know they need customers. Amazon are good for it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Will the Frankfurters be deep fried this evening?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Elon Musk says that "Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization".

    @elonmusk - Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months

    @thehowie - When you are explicitly political, you should expect people to treat you as such. Which part of that is confusing to you?

    @elonmusk - I’m not surprised at all. That was to inoculate the public. As a prominent vaccine advocate, you should understand that.

    Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526975113597489154

    Elon is on a journey.
    Yeah, to the looney bin!
    Well, he's not wrong that Yale is stuffed full of radical leftists. That's not even news.
    Which are the right-wing universities?
    Where indeed are they. That's the question.
    Yes, at all times and all places it seems that right wing pundits have attacked universities for being left wing. There must be something about education in general and higher education in particular that they hate.
    No I think it's just that youngsters tend to be more radical and university lecturers tend to the leftwards politically. Right wing thought tends to come from elsewhere. Those with leftward views will be positive about some of the stuff that comes out of unis, those more small c conservative find it too radical and are (in my case as an example) put off by the attachment of some weird and unearned sense of moral superiority to leftist social views.
    I find the further left social policy is the more morally repugnant I find it. Economics is different. All directions bear some fruit
    I think it is more fundamental than that. Social conservatives don't want their young learning anything not taught at their home, immediate locality or place of worship, with the exception of technological skills nessecary to support the existing social structures. It is the same for the American home schoolers on the praire or the Taliban. Indeed Boko Haram translates as "Western Education is forbidden".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    But this is why this shit is happening. It is a disaster for the British economy, if it continues

    As an international flintic dildo maker and salesman, I can say it is clearly impacting my industry (seriously). The people that are back in the office are On their Game, they respond quickly, they do their job. The people who are WFH reply much slower, they are less alert in general, and less aware of industry news and gossip, and they are hard to hear on phone calls (“Oh sorry that’s my husband slapping the dog” - GO BACK TO THE FUCKING OFFICE THEN)

    I reckon we are about to discover there is a reason we have big cities and complex offices, and the cities and offices that function properly will entirely out-compete the people sitting in their stupid gardens. This is not an invention of the Tory party because of its commercial property owning donors
    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.
    This should come as a surprise to no-one. Who would want to work in a call centre-type occupation - whether office or home based - if they had a better alternative? And, in a low unemployment environment, better alternatives (consisting of practically every other kind of job imaginable) are easier than usual to come by.

    Then, of course, the harder businesses find it to recruit workers willing to put up with a constant barrage of shouting from enraged customers, the smaller the available pool of call handlers, the worse the service becomes, the more rage the remaining staff have to put up with, and the more likely they are to get out as soon as they can find another minimum wage crap job that's less liable to cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

    It's the sort of vicious cycle that can only be broken by a spike in joblessness that forces workers to endure the misery, for want of anywhere else to go.
    Part of the problem is being behind with technology investment.

    I spent an hour on phone waiting in a queue for a major insurance company earlier this week, merely to update my debit card details, as the card had expired.

    This could be done online.
    Yep. Not just online technology either, the phone systems they are running are often a couple of generations out of date too.

    The issue is, that for larger companies these projects run to millions of currency units and take years to bring to fruition. There’s not room for an agile (small a) solution that can be up and running in weeks, as we saw during the pandemic - when there was a big difference between companies and organisations that could step outside the box in an emergency, and those constrained by their own bureaucracy that needed to be bypassed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874


    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.

    My view is that people who need constant supervision lest they muck around in the office muck around at home.

    Those that work hard in the office and have busy and demanding jobs work just as hard (if not more so) from home.

    But, if you're over 60 and of a different generation you struggle to understand why any of it isn't a skive. Remote teaming and cloud technologies are just alien to you.
    You're not wrong, @Casino_Royale

    I'm one of life's self-motivated introverts so I just crack on and get the work done - I'm quite happy not to speak to a colleague for a day if that means I get done what needs to be done. That's not to say I don't enjoy the social aspects of meetings and team meetings but the notion "you have to be in the office to reconnect" is pure unadulterated nonsense (at least for me).

    And that's the thing - there's no "one size fits all" approach to this. Each individual and each organisation's culture is different and said individuals and organisations need to make it work for them rather than having the Prime Minister wade in with his ill-thought nonsense.

    I suspect we are also seeing staff shortages bump up against increased demand - more people at home usually means more calls to organisations, companies and Government departments. That was a foreseeable consequence of lockdown yet it was not prepared for by some.

    Just as a restaurant can't function if it doesn't have the staff to cook the food and wait tables so organisations who cannot get enough people to answer the phone will suffer a deterioration in customer service with all the attendant reputational impacts.

    Have the likes of EDF, Scottish Power and British Gas taken on additional staff to deal with the concerns of customers of the defunct small energy companies (for example)? I suspect not.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Instead you killed loads of Civilians in places like Amritsar and Derry...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Elon Musk says that "Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization".

    @elonmusk - Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months

    @thehowie - When you are explicitly political, you should expect people to treat you as such. Which part of that is confusing to you?

    @elonmusk - I’m not surprised at all. That was to inoculate the public. As a prominent vaccine advocate, you should understand that.

    Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526975113597489154

    Elon is on a journey.
    Yeah, to the looney bin!
    Well, he's not wrong that Yale is stuffed full of radical leftists. That's not even news.
    Which are the right-wing universities?
    Where indeed are they. That's the question.
    Yes, at all times and all places it seems that right wing pundits have attacked universities for being left wing. There must be something about education in general and higher education in particular that they hate.
    No I think it's just that youngsters tend to be more radical and university lecturers tend to the leftwards politically. Right wing thought tends to come from elsewhere. Those with leftward views will be positive about some of the stuff that comes out of unis, those more small c conservative find it too radical and are (in my case as an example) put off by the attachment of some weird and unearned sense of moral superiority to leftist social views.
    I find the further left social policy is the more morally repugnant I find it. Economics is different. All directions bear some fruit
    I think it is more fundamental than that. Social conservatives don't want their young learning anything not taught at their home, immediate locality or place of worship, with the exception of technological skills nessecary to support the existing social structures. It is the same for the American home schoolers on the praire or the Taliban. Indeed Boko Haram translates as "Western Education is forbidden".
    It's more likely that social conservatives didn't mind young people learning things at university when there were a fair number of social conservatives teaching at those institutions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Elon Musk says that "Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization".

    @elonmusk - Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months

    @thehowie - When you are explicitly political, you should expect people to treat you as such. Which part of that is confusing to you?

    @elonmusk - I’m not surprised at all. That was to inoculate the public. As a prominent vaccine advocate, you should understand that.

    Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526975113597489154

    Elon is on a journey.
    Yeah, to the looney bin!
    Well, he's not wrong that Yale is stuffed full of radical leftists. That's not even news.
    Which are the right-wing universities?
    Where indeed are they. That's the question.
    Yes, at all times and all places it seems that right wing pundits have attacked universities for being left wing. There must be something about education in general and higher education in particular that they hate.
    No I think it's just that youngsters tend to be more radical and university lecturers tend to the leftwards politically. Right wing thought tends to come from elsewhere. Those with leftward views will be positive about some of the stuff that comes out of unis, those more small c conservative find it too radical and are (in my case as an example) put off by the attachment of some weird and unearned sense of moral superiority to leftist social views.
    I find the further left social policy is the more morally repugnant I find it. Economics is different. All directions bear some fruit
    I think it is more fundamental than that. Social conservatives don't want their young learning anything not taught at their home, immediate locality or place of worship, with the exception of technological skills nessecary to support the existing social structures. It is the same for the American home schoolers on the praire or the Taliban. Indeed Boko Haram translates as "Western Education is forbidden".
    What total brainless shit
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Ok. Fair enough - if we are going simplistic (it wasn’t just Italian teens and it wasn’t just a simple case of some Liverpool fans pushing over a wall out of nothing).

    Amritsar - we just controlled a riot as quickly as possible - naughty Indian teens….

    Thing is you are probably the poster I agree most with on here for my sins but I’m staggered how miffed you have been by booing a pretty rubbish hymn - if it had been “I vow to thee my country” then I would be in my tank towards Anfield Road but really, perspective?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    But this is why this shit is happening. It is a disaster for the British economy, if it continues

    As an international flintic dildo maker and salesman, I can say it is clearly impacting my industry (seriously). The people that are back in the office are On their Game, they respond quickly, they do their job. The people who are WFH reply much slower, they are less alert in general, and less aware of industry news and gossip, and they are hard to hear on phone calls (“Oh sorry that’s my husband slapping the dog” - GO BACK TO THE FUCKING OFFICE THEN)

    I reckon we are about to discover there is a reason we have big cities and complex offices, and the cities and offices that function properly will entirely out-compete the people sitting in their stupid gardens. This is not an invention of the Tory party because of its commercial property owning donors
    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.
    This should come as a surprise to no-one. Who would want to work in a call centre-type occupation - whether office or home based - if they had a better alternative? And, in a low unemployment environment, better alternatives (consisting of practically every other kind of job imaginable) are easier than usual to come by.

    Then, of course, the harder businesses find it to recruit workers willing to put up with a constant barrage of shouting from enraged customers, the smaller the available pool of call handlers, the worse the service becomes, the more rage the remaining staff have to put up with, and the more likely they are to get out as soon as they can find another minimum wage crap job that's less liable to cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

    It's the sort of vicious cycle that can only be broken by a spike in joblessness that forces workers to endure the misery, for want of anywhere else to go.
    Part of the problem is being behind with technology investment.

    I spent an hour on phone waiting in a queue for a major insurance company earlier this week, merely to update my debit card details, as the card had expired.

    This could be done online.
    Yep. Not just online technology either, the phone systems they are running are often a couple of generations out of date too.

    The issue is, that for larger companies these projects run to millions of currency units and take years to bring to fruition. There’s not room for an agile (small a) solution that can be up and running in weeks, as we saw during the pandemic - when there was a big difference between companies and organisations that could step outside the box in an emergency, and those constrained by their own bureaucracy that needed to be bypassed.
    Interesting. This could be part of the public inquiry perhaps. The supermarkets did a superb job transforming within weeks. Lessons?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,524

    I think Musk is slightly barking and I'd hate to work for him but it doesn't mean he isn't onto something with the Woke mind virus.

    I wouldn't agree, as you'd expect. But FWIW my cousin's son does work in his organisation (and has for a couple of years) and finds him OK. The lad basically designs satellites and Musk encourages him to design more, so they're both quite happy. I suspect Musk is fine if you deliver the goods, terrible if you don't.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    I had a season ticket for Hibs in the early sixties and while there was rivalry it was nothing compared to Rangers v Celtic
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    Make sure to pass out on your side so you don't choke on your own vomit.
    Very eloquently said!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    ydoethur said:

    News from the by-election front line:

    My train is just pulling in to Wakey Westgate. and none of those baling off look like rapid Yorkshire Party supporters to me.

    (Waves out of train window to Mr Herdson!)

    Only really slow ones?
    Begs the question what a Yorks Party voter looks like?

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Not in Liverpool for sure, they’re reasonably friendly for next door neighbours. Can’t say I know too much about Hearts and Hibs though.

    Rangers and Celtic always play each other at midday on Saturday these days, after some silly TV company once thought that a 19:45 kickoff would be great for the schedule. Except that half of Glasgow city centre got trashed that night.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    There was an Irish Nationalist MP for the Liverpool Scotland seat from 1885 to 1929:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._P._O'Connor
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?
    I did not say that, but unrestricted public sector pay rises to match inflation and similar pension and benefit rises are unsustainable
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Elon Musk says that "Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization".

    @elonmusk - Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months

    @thehowie - When you are explicitly political, you should expect people to treat you as such. Which part of that is confusing to you?

    @elonmusk - I’m not surprised at all. That was to inoculate the public. As a prominent vaccine advocate, you should understand that.

    Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526975113597489154

    Elon is on a journey.
    Yeah, to the looney bin!
    Well, he's not wrong that Yale is stuffed full of radical leftists. That's not even news.
    Which are the right-wing universities?
    Where indeed are they. That's the question.
    Yes, at all times and all places it seems that right wing pundits have attacked universities for being left wing. There must be something about education in general and higher education in particular that they hate.
    No I think it's just that youngsters tend to be more radical and university lecturers tend to the leftwards politically. Right wing thought tends to come from elsewhere. Those with leftward views will be positive about some of the stuff that comes out of unis, those more small c conservative find it too radical and are (in my case as an example) put off by the attachment of some weird and unearned sense of moral superiority to leftist social views.
    I find the further left social policy is the more morally repugnant I find it. Economics is different. All directions bear some fruit
    I think it is more fundamental than that. Social conservatives don't want their young learning anything not taught at their home, immediate locality or place of worship, with the exception of technological skills nessecary to support the existing social structures. It is the same for the American home schoolers on the praire or the Taliban. Indeed Boko Haram translates as "Western Education is forbidden".
    The counterpoint being the more radical left dont want their views tolerated, they want forced acceptance of their worldview, compulsory adulation of it. They seem utterly unprepared to accept that other views are available and the further down the left rabbit hole you go the more they are convinced anyone 1 degree or more to their right is made of pure distilled evil. I find nothing more disgusting than these self declarations, be it of moral superiority, integrity or whatever. And it's something I have found more a problem the further into the social left you travel.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited May 2022
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Elon Musk says that "Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization".

    @elonmusk - Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months

    @thehowie - When you are explicitly political, you should expect people to treat you as such. Which part of that is confusing to you?

    @elonmusk - I’m not surprised at all. That was to inoculate the public. As a prominent vaccine advocate, you should understand that.

    Yale is the epicenter of the woke mind virus attempting to destroy civilization.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526975113597489154

    Elon is on a journey.
    Yeah, to the looney bin!
    Well, he's not wrong that Yale is stuffed full of radical leftists. That's not even news.
    Which are the right-wing universities?
    Where indeed are they. That's the question.
    Yes, at all times and all places it seems that right wing pundits have attacked universities for being left wing. There must be something about education in general and higher education in particular that they hate.
    No I think it's just that youngsters tend to be more radical and university lecturers tend to the leftwards politically. Right wing thought tends to come from elsewhere. Those with leftward views will be positive about some of the stuff that comes out of unis, those more small c conservative find it too radical and are (in my case as an example) put off by the attachment of some weird and unearned sense of moral superiority to leftist social views.
    I find the further left social policy is the more morally repugnant I find it. Economics is different. All directions bear some fruit
    I think it is more fundamental than that. Social conservatives don't want their young learning anything not taught at their home, immediate locality or place of worship, with the exception of technological skills nessecary to support the existing social structures. It is the same for the American home schoolers on the praire or the Taliban. Indeed Boko Haram translates as "Western Education is forbidden".
    That strikes me as an improbably simplistic and all encompassing explanation. Wary of anecdote though we rightly are how many people have any of us come across who 'don't want their young learning anything not taught at their home, immediate locality or place of worship'? And for the sole purpose of maintaining social structures no less, a curiously specific goal.

    The 'evil commie insider' trope may not be massively compelling but I don't think that's much of a retort.

    Besides, everyone knows that centrists have all the answers, except the answer of how to win electoral support.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?
    SKS is still proposing a minimum wage of £10 less than the Tories I think
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Ok. Fair enough - if we are going simplistic (it wasn’t just Italian teens and it wasn’t just a simple case of some Liverpool fans pushing over a wall out of nothing).

    Amritsar - we just controlled a riot as quickly as possible - naughty Indian teens….

    Thing is you are probably the poster I agree most with on here for my sins but I’m staggered how miffed you have been by booing a pretty rubbish hymn - if it had been “I vow to thee my country” then I would be in my tank towards Anfield Road but really, perspective?
    I hear you.

    Maybe I always had this secret Simon Heffer-esque contempt for ugly, contemptible, obese, do-nothing Liverpool? But I hid it. OK, they booed our 96-year Queen during the year of her Platinum Jubilee, and a year or two after our widowhood. Maybe I could have contained myself, if they had done only that. But booing a beautiful religious hymn with the most profound lyrics ever written about humanity yielding with grace to mortality, WTAF??

    They are monkeys. They are an element in working class British culture - fat, wanky, ugly, dumb, inadequate, Philistine, pathetic and gruesomely proud of it - which I utterly despise. Let them sink into the Irish Sea. Millwall have more nobility
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited May 2022
    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited May 2022

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Amongst the many things I looked at today, I see the government bringing a lot of Indian nurses in to fill a hole.

    It could be moving to where government insist Brexit working well, Brexit supporters, such as on PB say it’s working well, no problem here - yet as they say this there is this growing and active special measures clause in which the economy and increasingly frustrated business can fill skill gaps it’s crying out for, proper skill gaps not just carrying out food and wiping tables, but being able to operate a lot of the machinery in factory, or chef, or nurse or doctor, that is negating exactly what many voted for that got Brexit over the line.

    You voted Remain. But Brexit is done now, so we all park it and move on?

    But as time passes, it’s looking like Brexit isn’t really done, at what point do we re-examine our position and start arguing there’s plenty here to sort out?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,915
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    This article doesn't explicitly say that's wrong, but implies it with the movements it states following the violence.

    "Sectarian violence in Liverpool

    On 20 June 1909 Liverpool experienced its worst outbreak of sectarian trouble when Catholics and Protestants violently clashed in the streets.

    A proposed march from a local Catholic church ended in riots with police when members of the Protestant community tried to block the route.

    The sectarian violence led to the city being dubbed the 'Belfast of England'.

    snip

    "A Father Fitzgerald gave evidence," Professor Neal says

    "He claimed 3,200 Catholics had to leave Everton and move in to safe areas."

    "The commission also heard that a number of Protestant families had to leave the dock areas".""

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Booing Abide with Me is probably as bad as admitting one didn't think Space Man by Sam Ryder deserved to top the judges score.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Evening all :)

    News from elsewhere - in Slovenia, as his party hits 44% in the latest poll, Robert Golob looks set to become prime minister of a coalition of Svoboda, Social Democrats and the Left which will have 55 of 96 seats in the new Parliament.

    Interesting polling from France for the legislative election as NUPES advances into a narrow lead. NUPES is basically to France what Golob's coalition is to Slovenia. NUPES is Melenchon's party joined with the Greens , Socialists, Communists and a few others. In the old National Assembly, they had 58 seats between them but could now win 160-185 seats.

    Ensemble! is Macron's LREM party plus a couple of others.

    The latest poll as follows (changes from 2017):

    NUPES: 27.5% (+2.5)
    Ensemble!: 27% (-5)
    National Rally: 21% (+8)
    Les Republicans: 10% (-12)
    Reconquete: 5% (+5)

    Despite that, Ensemble! could win a narrow overall majority with National Rally and NUPES making gains and Les Republicans taking big losses.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    boulay said:

    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.

    That's a Vanilla bug!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Have I got this right: Tories are now against the windfall tax because it doesn't go far enough?

    Charitable view: fast moving economic crisis which the system hasn't had to deal with for at least 40 years.

    Alternative view: You can see the whites of all the rabbits' eyes in the piercing beam of the highlights.
    I imagine that some of the less imbecilic Tories have taken Martin Lewis' recent remarks about the possibility of civil unrest onboard - especially once we get into Winter and anything up to half the population really begins to struggle to service mortgage debt or rents, credit card and loan debt, transport costs, home energy costs and food prices all at the same time when all of those bills are climbing relentlessly in lockstep.

    They can't borrow their way out of trouble because the public debt is already gigantic and the cost of servicing it will be climbing as well. They can't tax the poor because they've nothing left to give. To a great extent they can't tax businesses either because, certain special exceptions like the oil and gas sector aside, a lot of them are struggling with the consequences of inflation themselves, along with plummeting consumer confidence. They can scrabble around for more cuts, but the days when you could make meaningful savings by firing district council LGBT inclusion officers and streamlining procurement processes are long gone, if they were ever there to begin with.

    The best way to raise large sums of money quickly and reliably is through measures targeting the assets of the remaining fraction of the populace that remains comfortably off, principally through raising taxes on their homes and other investments, and much more substantial death duties - i.e. to squeeze the Tory core vote until it screams in agony. And they know it. They're in something of a bind.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    edited May 2022
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    The evil of the British Empire for one. A scar on us for time immemorial..
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    ydoethur said:

    News from the by-election front line:

    My train is just pulling in to Wakey Westgate. and none of those baling off look like rapid Yorkshire Party supporters to me.

    (Waves out of train window to Mr Herdson!)

    Only really slow ones?
    Autocorrect is the new comedy.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Ok. Fair enough - if we are going simplistic (it wasn’t just Italian teens and it wasn’t just a simple case of some Liverpool fans pushing over a wall out of nothing).

    Amritsar - we just controlled a riot as quickly as possible - naughty Indian teens….

    Thing is you are probably the poster I agree most with on here for my sins but I’m staggered how miffed you have been by booing a pretty rubbish hymn - if it had been “I vow to thee my country” then I would be in my tank towards Anfield Road but really, perspective?
    I hear you.

    Maybe I always had this secret Simon Heffer-esque contempt for ugly, contemptible, obese, do-nothing Liverpool? But I hid it. OK, they booed our 96-year Queen during the year of her Platinum Jubilee, and a year or two after our widowhood. Maybe I could have contained myself, if they had done only that. But booing a beautiful religious hymn with the most profound lyrics ever written about humanity yielding with grace to mortality, WTAF??

    They are monkeys. They are an element in working class British culture - fat, wanky, ugly, dumb, inadequate, Philistine, pathetic and gruesomely proud of it - which I utterly despise. Let them sink into the Irish Sea. Millwall have more nobility
    I get you but you are in danger of going full-Roger…..
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Just seen an attempted stabbing. In the middle of the road. At 8 o'clock daylight.
    Summat in the air today.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    As far as I can tell, Musk's plan for Twitter is genuinely:

    1. Free speech
    2. ?
    3. Profit

    Doesn't seem a million miles apart from the existing plan of the platform, in fairness. I mean, I believe it got there in the end, somehow.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Amongst the many things I looked at today, I see the government bringing a lot of Indian nurses in to fill a hole.

    It could be moving to where government insist Brexit working well, Brexit supporters, such as on PB say it’s working well, no problem here - yet as they say this there is this growing and active special measures clause in which the economy and increasingly frustrated business can fill skill gaps it’s crying out for, proper skill gaps not just carrying out food and wiping tables, but being able to operate a lot of the machinery in factory, or chef, or nurse or doctor, that is negating exactly what many voted for that got Brexit over the line.

    You voted Remain. But Brexit is done now, so we all park it and move on?

    But as time passes, it’s looking like Brexit isn’t really done, at what point do we re-examine our position and start arguing there’s plenty here to sort out?
    Brexit is not the final destination yet and needs work over the months and years ahead but I do not see it as number one in people's minds
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Is John Fetterman the Future of the Democratic Party?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/opinion/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-democratic-party.html


    His dogs have 25k twitter followers. He wears Carhartt workwear. He would legalise weed.


    Welcome to the second decade of the 21st century kids.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    This article doesn't explicitly say that's wrong, but implies it with the movements it states following the violence.

    "Sectarian violence in Liverpool

    On 20 June 1909 Liverpool experienced its worst outbreak of sectarian trouble when Catholics and Protestants violently clashed in the streets.

    A proposed march from a local Catholic church ended in riots with police when members of the Protestant community tried to block the route.

    The sectarian violence led to the city being dubbed the 'Belfast of England'.

    snip

    "A Father Fitzgerald gave evidence," Professor Neal says

    "He claimed 3,200 Catholics had to leave Everton and move in to safe areas."

    "The commission also heard that a number of Protestant families had to leave the dock areas".""

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm
    That makes more sense. Liverpool are very popular in Eire

    God, let them lose to Real
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    ydoethur said:

    News from the by-election front line:

    My train is just pulling in to Wakey Westgate. and none of those baling off look like rapid Yorkshire Party supporters to me.

    (Waves out of train window to Mr Herdson!)

    Only really slow ones?
    Begs the question what a Yorks Party voter looks like?

    https://youtu.be/jY4tD2Hbg_A
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?
    SKS is still proposing a minimum wage of £10 less than the Tories I think
    Proper fiscal Conservatism. It’s got my vote.

    (Seriously, I will NEVER NEVER NEVER vote Labour)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.

    That's a Vanilla bug!
    Ok - tried taking a photo in landscape to see if it comes out the right way. Just missed more random lightning sadly.


  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.

    That's a Vanilla bug!
    Ok - tried taking a photo in landscape to see if it comes out the right way. Just missed more random lightning sadly.


    Edit - FFS……
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited May 2022

    Is John Fetterman the Future of the Democratic Party?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/opinion/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-democratic-party.html


    His dogs have 25k twitter followers. He wears Carhartt workwear. He would legalise weed.


    Welcome to the second decade of the 21st century kids.

    I was surprised in a BBC story earlier to see him described as a 'hulking' 6ft 8in. The word seems to carry negative connotations to me when just describing his height would go just fine.

    It was admittedly in the context of a historic incident where he pursued an innocent jogger with his shotgun though.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61489046
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,915
    To get iphone photos posted the right way up, I found that editing the photo and realigning it didn't help. I had to realign it and then crop a tiny bit off to get it to then save with the alignment I wanted in a way recognised by vanilla. It's a bit of a pain in the arse, but better than posting wonky photos!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    dixiedean said:

    Just seen an attempted stabbing. In the middle of the road. At 8 o'clock daylight.
    Summat in the air today.

    In rural Northumberland ?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?
    I did not say that, but unrestricted public sector pay rises to match inflation and similar pension and benefit rises are unsustainable
    Prices getting out ahead of the wages of the poorest -- THAT is unsustainable. For the poor, that is. But they probably don't count.
    The poor are actually not that poor. Poverty seems now to be defined as you can't afford a hundred quid a month for sky sports.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?
    I did not say that, but unrestricted public sector pay rises to match inflation and similar pension and benefit rises are unsustainable
    Prices getting out ahead of the wages of the poorest -- THAT is unsustainable. For the poor, that is. But they probably don't count.
    They really do and that is where the help should be concentrated
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    edited May 2022

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Edinburgh fans generally grew out of that thinking some decades back, compared to Glasgow, though there are traces - if only in the very name and strip of Hibernian FC.

    But originally the sectarianism was rooted in social structure - nativist Protestant Scots vs incoming RC Irish immigrants (though the split is not neat: consider the Irish Presbyterians). The RC Irish got the crap jobs until relatively recently, the decent jobs being kept for Protestant working classes. "What school did you go to?" was an absolute killer question in a job interview.

    The Scottish Tories were originally the Unionist Party - unionist in the Irish sense in politics and attitudes. Labour grew out of a self-defence party for the RC Irish underdogs.

    One of the signs of the end days as far as Slab is concerned is the rapprochement some time ago between the SNP (as itis called now) and the RC hierarchy. That is, yet again, the SNP stealing the birthright of Slab as far as Slab are concerned. It is also very odd, to somone of my age, to see Slab trying to make overtures to the Orange Order, and even offer grants to Orange Walks on at least one occasion (that was very quickly reverse-ferreted, but in the old days ...)

    The reason that most religious schools today in Scotland are RC is because in the old days the default option for ordinary was C of S - but that has withered away in recent decades, leaving the RCs and the odd Episcopalian, but RC rolls are declining, but pressure on budgets is always there ... There was a LA some years back, which pointedly built two new high schools together, RC and non RC, absolute mirror images, the hall on each side and so on separated only by a non-structural wall, easily demolished. Their view was that they couldn't afford the inefficiency much longer and so were dam' well going to prepare for when they had to close down one more RC school.

    Edit: this depended very much on area. West Central Belt, hellish. Others, not so much. Friend of mine came from a Fife coal mining community. Ther was a huge culture shock on both sides when the NCB imported WCB miners from failing pits to help staff the new superpits in Fife. The locals made it very clear to the incomers that down the pit everyone had to look out for each other and there was going to be no room for division in their place.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    This article doesn't explicitly say that's wrong, but implies it with the movements it states following the violence.

    "Sectarian violence in Liverpool

    On 20 June 1909 Liverpool experienced its worst outbreak of sectarian trouble when Catholics and Protestants violently clashed in the streets.

    A proposed march from a local Catholic church ended in riots with police when members of the Protestant community tried to block the route.

    The sectarian violence led to the city being dubbed the 'Belfast of England'.

    snip

    "A Father Fitzgerald gave evidence," Professor Neal says

    "He claimed 3,200 Catholics had to leave Everton and move in to safe areas."

    "The commission also heard that a number of Protestant families had to leave the dock areas".""

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm
    Traditionally, Everton was the Catholic side.
    In Edinburgh, Hearts and Hibs were also traditionally split Protestant/Catholic.
    Historically, Mancunian Catholics are more likely to support United, though the split in Manchester owes more to geography (note the concentration of Irish descendents in SW Manchester, which is where Old Trafford is).
    I know of no religious or political reasons why one would support one team or other in Bristol, Nottingham, Dundee, Stoke or Falkirk. Nottingham and Dundee are the most interesting of these as the grounds are so close so presumably the geographical impact is slight.
    There was a religious aspect
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    ping said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Christ on a bike Big G, the Tories have been running Britain into an early grave consistently for the last 12 years and all you can say is "I'm worried that Labour might give nurses a pay rise"?
    I did not say that, but unrestricted public sector pay rises to match inflation and similar pension and benefit rises are unsustainable
    I think this is basically going to be Tory party orthodoxy for the foreseeable future.

    “Pay rises to match inflation…. are unsustainable”

    And it’s going to sink them.
    Anything else will sink Labour and UK PLC
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Amongst the many things I looked at today, I see the government bringing a lot of Indian nurses in to fill a hole.

    It could be moving to where government insist Brexit working well, Brexit supporters, such as on PB say it’s working well, no problem here - yet as they say this there is this growing and active special measures clause in which the economy and increasingly frustrated business can fill skill gaps it’s crying out for, proper skill gaps not just carrying out food and wiping tables, but being able to operate a lot of the machinery in factory, or chef, or nurse or doctor, that is negating exactly what many voted for that got Brexit over the line.

    You voted Remain. But Brexit is done now, so we all park it and move on?

    But as time passes, it’s looking like Brexit isn’t really done, at what point do we re-examine our position and start arguing there’s plenty here to sort out?
    Brexit is not the final destination yet and needs work over the months and years ahead but I do not see it as number one in people's minds
    I see no contradiction in Brexit and the nhs employing qualified professionals from overseas. Tbh the medical profession has always tended to underproduce staff (restricted training place) partly to keep wages high(definitely so for doctors). We have started training many more medics, but it takes time to get them through, plus Covid has been a road block. I believe the best solution is to train as many staff as we need, but at the moment we need more.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Ok. Fair enough - if we are going simplistic (it wasn’t just Italian teens and it wasn’t just a simple case of some Liverpool fans pushing over a wall out of nothing).

    Amritsar - we just controlled a riot as quickly as possible - naughty Indian teens….

    Thing is you are probably the poster I agree most with on here for my sins but I’m staggered how miffed you have been by booing a pretty rubbish hymn - if it had been “I vow to thee my country” then I would be in my tank towards Anfield Road but really, perspective?
    I hear you.

    Maybe I always had this secret Simon Heffer-esque contempt for ugly, contemptible, obese, do-nothing Liverpool? But I hid it. OK, they booed our 96-year Queen during the year of her Platinum Jubilee, and a year or two after our widowhood. Maybe I could have contained myself, if they had done only that. But booing a beautiful religious hymn with the most profound lyrics ever written about humanity yielding with grace to mortality, WTAF??

    They are monkeys. They are an element in working class British culture - fat, wanky, ugly, dumb, inadequate, Philistine, pathetic and gruesomely proud of it - which I utterly despise. Let them sink into the Irish Sea. Millwall have more nobility
    I get you but you are in danger of going full-Roger…..
    What would Bill Shankly or Ian Paisley have thought of them booing the Queen, or booing the National Anthem, and then booing ABIDE WITH ME?

    I do not think they would have expressed admiration. And their bewildered contempt would be justified. We have regressed as a nation and a culture and Liverpool fans are the pimply, wobbly, nihilistic cutting edge. Well done, lads
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.

    That's a Vanilla bug!
    Ok - tried taking a photo in landscape to see if it comes out the right way. Just missed more random lightning sadly.


    Top trolling from vanilla...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    kle4 said:

    Is John Fetterman the Future of the Democratic Party?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/opinion/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-democratic-party.html


    His dogs have 25k twitter followers. He wears Carhartt workwear. He would legalise weed.


    Welcome to the second decade of the 21st century kids.

    I was surprised in a BBC story earlier to see him described as a 'hulking' 6ft 8in. The word seems to carry negative connotations to me when just describing his height would go just fine.

    It was admittedly in the context of a historic incident where he pursued an innocent jogger with his shotgun though.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61489046
    NY Times speculates that incident may come back to bite him.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    dixiedean said:

    Just seen an attempted stabbing. In the middle of the road. At 8 o'clock daylight.
    Summat in the air today.

    Horrible. That sort of thing would shake me up. Hope you’re ok.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.

    That's a Vanilla bug!
    Ok - tried taking a photo in landscape to see if it comes out the right way. Just missed more random lightning sadly.


    Edit - FFS……
    Having a holiday in the outback, are we?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    This article doesn't explicitly say that's wrong, but implies it with the movements it states following the violence.

    "Sectarian violence in Liverpool

    On 20 June 1909 Liverpool experienced its worst outbreak of sectarian trouble when Catholics and Protestants violently clashed in the streets.

    A proposed march from a local Catholic church ended in riots with police when members of the Protestant community tried to block the route.

    The sectarian violence led to the city being dubbed the 'Belfast of England'.

    snip

    "A Father Fitzgerald gave evidence," Professor Neal says

    "He claimed 3,200 Catholics had to leave Everton and move in to safe areas."

    "The commission also heard that a number of Protestant families had to leave the dock areas".""

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    This article doesn't explicitly say that's wrong, but implies it with the movements it states following the violence.

    "Sectarian violence in Liverpool

    On 20 June 1909 Liverpool experienced its worst outbreak of sectarian trouble when Catholics and Protestants violently clashed in the streets.

    A proposed march from a local Catholic church ended in riots with police when members of the Protestant community tried to block the route.

    The sectarian violence led to the city being dubbed the 'Belfast of England'.

    snip

    "A Father Fitzgerald gave evidence," Professor Neal says

    "He claimed 3,200 Catholics had to leave Everton and move in to safe areas."

    "The commission also heard that a number of Protestant families had to leave the dock areas".""

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm
    Everton are the Protestant (and Establishment) team. And best supported club in the country till Busby's United. Liverpool, founded by a Scot, traditionally the team of immigrants, especially the Irish.
    However, that isn't true any more, really.
    Confusion may be arising from the suburb, formerly village, of Everton itself. It was very posh in mid-Victorian times, being on a hill some way from the City. It got poorer and poorer and Irish moved in. Was the most deprived ward in the UK a few years ago.
    However, Everton have never played there. Ever at any time. Why they chose the name is a mystery lost in the midst of time. Though the theory it was a Protestant area which retained a "posh* reputation is one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    Amongst the many things I looked at today, I see the government bringing a lot of Indian nurses in to fill a hole.

    It could be moving to where government insist Brexit working well, Brexit supporters, such as on PB say it’s working well, no problem here - yet as they say this there is this growing and active special measures clause in which the economy and increasingly frustrated business can fill skill gaps it’s crying out for, proper skill gaps not just carrying out food and wiping tables, but being able to operate a lot of the machinery in factory, or chef, or nurse or doctor, that is negating exactly what many voted for that got Brexit over the line.

    You voted Remain. But Brexit is done now, so we all park it and move on?

    But as time passes, it’s looking like Brexit isn’t really done, at what point do we re-examine our position and start arguing there’s plenty here to sort out?
    Brexit is not the final destination yet and needs work over the months and years ahead but I do not see it as number one in people's minds
    I see no contradiction in Brexit and the nhs employing qualified professionals from overseas. Tbh the medical profession has always tended to underproduce staff (restricted training place) partly to keep wages high(definitely so for doctors). We have started training many more medics, but it takes time to get them through, plus Covid has been a road block. I believe the best solution is to train as many staff as we need, but at the moment we need more.
    Yep, there needs to be a short term plan (of recruiting in Mumbai and Manila) to alleviate the current shortages, alongside a long-term plan of training more medical students in the UK.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Have been trying to catch a photo of the lightning in a very weird thunderstorm where packs of clouds keep passing throwing out their tricks but failed. Looks suitably moody anyway!



    Edit - sorry it’s the wrong way round.

    That's a Vanilla bug!
    Ok - tried taking a photo in landscape to see if it comes out the right way. Just missed more random lightning sadly.


    Top trolling from vanilla...
    Lol!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Labour can’t win if voters think they will rely on the SNP.

    Keir needs to go all out on them.

    There is a problem here as things stand. If the Tories carry on committing suicide then SKS anti SNP stance may be possible. But assuming some sort of normal can break out in government, Labour will not be able to get to a majority without counting in the SNP in some form. They simply hold too many seats.

    SKS may need us to believe something that he in fact does not. So we might not either.

    Yes, it’s a problem or a paradox.

    This is why I advocate a very public anti-SNP approach from Labour from now until the next election.

    Vote SNP, get Tory.
    That only applies in Scotland. Where Labour is pretty crap at present in MP terms. One almost Tory MP in Morningside of all places. And Labour victories over SNP do nothing to reduce the Tory majority. Plus at the same time, Slab is pretending not to ally with Tories but is doing so all over the country?
    I don’t know why Labour are allying with the Tories in Scotland. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
    My enemy’s enemy …
    Sort of on subject, how many million Union Jacks have Rangers fans taken to Seville?
    Not all of their Union Jacks. They will have kept a few million at home for Orange Walks.
    So which posters are rooting for Rangers tonight? And which rooting for the German side? Are you suspecting the majority of PBers cheering for Rangers, actually have English accents?

    Since I was named Minister of Sport in PrImeminister TSE first PB cabinet, I’ve been taking my brief at least as seriously as Nadine Doris, my opposite number in government.

    So Rangers Protestant, Celtic Catholic? Any type of Protestant including CoE, or a particular denomination? And then the Union Jacks - so typical Rangers fan so solid unionist does not vote SNP?

    It’s like painting a picture of the Balkan’s 🫢
    That is unadultered pish that only a Little Englander could come out with. Get an education.
    Those are actual questions to get an education. I’m aware football allegiance Spain is very political. The only two things i know of in England remotely like that, people of a certain religious persuasion like, or feel they should support, Tottenham. And enmity between West Ham and Millwall could be something to do with not supporting a dockyard strike?

    The Rangers with Union Jacks. Does that mean they don’t vote SNP? are they hard bitten unionists with no truck for independence, if they happy to drape in that flag?

    If So, does it mean they get fans from far afield, not just Glasgow, on basis it’s the Union team?

    Was it ever that sectarian between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers, or more to do with districts of town grew up in. Or even, historically, are there clear Catholic and Protestant areas of town?

    Genuine questions, possibly better answered on PB than Google.

    By all means educate me.
    Glasgow football is very sectarian, more than anywhere else in GB. The Rangers fans are Protestants and the Celtic fans Catholics.
    Is there any similar thing between the Liverpool sides? Or the Edinburgh teams?
    Weirdly, I was always taught that Liverpool WAS a divided city - like Glasgow - but that Everton was the Catholic side and Liverpool was the Proddy side. I have no idea if this is true. It certainly doesn’t square with their identities now
    This article doesn't explicitly say that's wrong, but implies it with the movements it states following the violence.

    "Sectarian violence in Liverpool

    On 20 June 1909 Liverpool experienced its worst outbreak of sectarian trouble when Catholics and Protestants violently clashed in the streets.

    A proposed march from a local Catholic church ended in riots with police when members of the Protestant community tried to block the route.

    The sectarian violence led to the city being dubbed the 'Belfast of England'.

    snip

    "A Father Fitzgerald gave evidence," Professor Neal says

    "He claimed 3,200 Catholics had to leave Everton and move in to safe areas."

    "The commission also heard that a number of Protestant families had to leave the dock areas".""

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm
    Traditionally, Everton was the Catholic side.
    In Edinburgh, Hearts and Hibs were also traditionally split Protestant/Catholic.
    Historically, Mancunian Catholics are more likely to support United, though the split in Manchester owes more to geography (note the concentration of Irish descendents in SW Manchester, which is where Old Trafford is).
    I know of no religious or political reasons why one would support one team or other in Bristol, Nottingham, Dundee, Stoke or Falkirk. Nottingham and Dundee are the most interesting of these as the grounds are so close so presumably the geographical impact is slight.
    There was a religious aspect
    Dundee are the Prods and United the Papists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Sweet Jesus of Toxteth this is a boring game
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,360

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    The irony is that a call centre can actually fit really well with both WFH and flexible hours.

    BUT, and it’s a big but, it needs the organisation to be structured differently to an in-person call centre, with processes to match. You need a larger group of both L2 technical agents and supervisors, and the managers need to take a different view of their metrics which requires modern phone and IT systems.

    I get the impression that much of the public sector and quasi-public sector simply went home in March 2020, plugged their desk phone into a router, used their own laptop to connect to a VPN and a Citrix window, but the organisations never specifically set themselves up for WFH.

    A call centre is also a training-heavy environment, and training / teambuilding exercises are best done in person to maintain consistency.
    There were lots of call centres before the pandemic that used staff working from their own homes (with appropriate structures in place). It’s always been a job that is well suited to working from home and to employees wanting different working hours. It’s just we, the consumer, didn’t notice.

    The problem is that private call centres operate on a principle that they need to work effectively or they don't get business so they don't get paid, so they make sure their operations work.

    Public ones - not so much.

    I had a rather worrying encounter a few months ago with the Council for a home I used to live in but moved out of in 2019. I'd paid my Council Tax in full by Direct Debit and had notified them when I moved homes and set up a Direct Debit for my new home but then a few years later got a "final demand" letter for overdue Council Tax for 2020-21. I called them and spoke to someone who was working from home and said that I had moved out before this period so it wasn't me who owed the tax, he told me not to worry, promised to get it resolved and would put a hold on the account until they could figure out what had gone wrong.

    Two months later I got a Court Summons for unpaid Council Tax, with a court date set for what was then 3 weeks time. I tried calling the Council again but after pressing all the relevant options got a message "our queue is full please try again later". That kept happening again and again for two weeks. Tried emailing them, got an autoreply saying they're currently taking an average of 6 weeks to respond to emails, but the Court Summons was for 3 weeks time.

    After a few weeks of calling them every day I eventually got in the queue and through to a human who found my email to them and accepted the proof that I wasn't living at that address for the time in question and the Council had been informed of that. But utterly remarkable that they could take six weeks to respond to an email, but have Court Summons issued for 3 weeks, and the queue 'full'.

    If you call a company like Sky you'll get through to someone probably working from home - but at least you'll get through to someone and they take your issue seriously. At least if you threaten to cancel your contract they do.
    I spent hours and hours on the phone to Scottish Power trying to get them to correct the electricity meter database so that I could switch supplier. Everytime they told me they had fixed it only for the problem to remain.

    Most call centres exist only to exhaust complaining customers so that they will give up. The poor sods taking customers' calls are rarely given the authority to actually fix the problems people phone up about.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    The evil of the British Empire for one. A scar on us for time immemorial..
    You know the structure of today's free world is largely down to the British Empire, right?

    Where do you think multiracial South African democracy, entrepreneurial Singapore, Hong Kong (try asking them whose rule they prefer), India (the world's largest democracy), America (the world's most powerful democracy) Canada, Australia and New Zealand come from? And how Japan, Taiwan and South Korea chose to imitate them rather than another autocracy.

    Sure the Middle East is a bit of fuck up - although arguably Israel is better than the alternative - and Africa isn't exactly a bed of roses, although bigoted Rhodesia was almost certainly economically better off than the basket case that is modern Zimbabwe - but you can't argue that's representative. It's complex.

    This penchant for equating us to the Nazis and selectively extracting the worst aspects from our history (usually out of context) to damn us for all time is certainly fashionable at the moment but it's also wrong - and just a phase.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,524



    (Seriously, I will NEVER NEVER NEVER vote Labour)

    Yes, we've rather gathered that :)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Is John Fetterman the Future of the Democratic Party?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/opinion/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-democratic-party.html


    His dogs have 25k twitter followers. He wears Carhartt workwear. He would legalise weed.


    Welcome to the second decade of the 21st century kids.

    Second decade? Counted them?

    Also coming straight after the workwear, I read that as "legalise tweed" and thought I will never get to grips with US politics.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Ok. Fair enough - if we are going simplistic (it wasn’t just Italian teens and it wasn’t just a simple case of some Liverpool fans pushing over a wall out of nothing).

    Amritsar - we just controlled a riot as quickly as possible - naughty Indian teens….

    Thing is you are probably the poster I agree most with on here for my sins but I’m staggered how miffed you have been by booing a pretty rubbish hymn - if it had been “I vow to thee my country” then I would be in my tank towards Anfield Road but really, perspective?
    I hear you.

    Maybe I always had this secret Simon Heffer-esque contempt for ugly, contemptible, obese, do-nothing Liverpool? But I hid it. OK, they booed our 96-year Queen during the year of her Platinum Jubilee, and a year or two after our widowhood. Maybe I could have contained myself, if they had done only that. But booing a beautiful religious hymn with the most profound lyrics ever written about humanity yielding with grace to mortality, WTAF??

    They are monkeys. They are an element in working class British culture - fat, wanky, ugly, dumb, inadequate, Philistine, pathetic and gruesomely proud of it - which I utterly despise. Let them sink into the Irish Sea. Millwall have more nobility
    I get you but you are in danger of going full-Roger…..
    What would Bill Shankly or Ian Paisley have thought of them booing the Queen, or booing the National Anthem, and then booing ABIDE WITH ME?

    I do not think they would have expressed admiration. And their bewildered contempt would be justified. We have regressed as a nation and a culture and Liverpool fans are the pimply, wobbly, nihilistic cutting edge. Well done, lads
    Do you think you might be overreacting to some booing? It's no violence to express an opinion.
    Leon's completely missing the point. The fans are showing a discriminating sense of musical criticism.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.

    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    The evil of the British Empire for one. A scar on us for time immemorial..
    You know the structure of today's free world is largely down to the British Empire, right?

    Where do you think multiracial South African democracy, entrepreneurial Singapore, Hong Kong (try asking them whose rule they prefer), India (the world's largest democracy), America (the world's most powerful democracy) Canada, Australia and New Zealand come from? And how Japan, Taiwan and South Korea chose to imitate them rather than another autocracy.

    Sure the Middle East is a bit of fuck up - although arguably Israel is better than the alternative - and Africa isn't exactly a bed of roses, although bigoted Rhodesia was almost certainly economically better off than the basket case that is modern Zimbabwe - but you can't argue that's representative. It's complex.

    This penchant for equating us to the Nazis and selectively extracting the worst aspects from our history (usually out of context) to damn us for all time is certainly fashionable at the moment but it's also wrong - and just a phase.
    MBE - does it stand for "Masturbating over the British Empire"?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited May 2022

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like another MP under investigation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206

    LOL, G you cannot persuade anyone that that is in any way even remotely as a bad as a Tory, they are real criminals, the guy had a couple of Nurofen in his pocket.
    Agree with you here Malc, this is a squirrel story and actually makes the allegations against 'whomever' starkly worse looking
    Which side of the bed will Big G get out of tomorow? The right? Or the moderate centre right? 🙂
    You can rest assured it will never be the right and anyway you said you loved me ?
    Of course I ❤️ you. You do sound a bit het up by it all today though?

    Was politics in the old days before I came along all about how many investigations you can get you opponents under, or is this a new phase that is a bit, not quite the point of politics really?

    I posted clip of Lady Thatcher at PMQs in recent thread - she’s is just simply explaining the difference in her philosophy and policies in regards theirs. That just made politics simple, explain your point of view.

    And they were all terribly polite and respectful to each other as they done it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9vYjqQ5Ek
    To be honest I am not the least het up but as my beloved will affirm I have this tendency to enjoy winding people up and maybe on occasions it shows

    It is fair to say that politics is more tribal and at times just nasty but as far as I am concerned I want Boris to go so I can rejoin the party as I really fear a Starmer led labour party would borrow far too much and I am not convinced they would restrict public sector pay including doctors and nurses as would be necessary
    In the clip of Lady Thatcher, she is explaining very clearly, her socialist opponents concern for the gap between rich and poor results in the sort of Failed Eastern Bloc Poleconomy that by not embracing the power of the free market to innovate, wealth creation, invest, doesn’t grow the economy, doesn’t provide the wealth that improves the services the everyday people rely on. So in effect, they are levelling down.

    Read across to Boris, seamlessly picking up the mantel of Lady Thatcher, placing Levelling Up at the very heart of his philosophy. High skilled, high wage economy, property ownership, no windfall taxes but instead wealth invested to transform and grow the economy.

    What part of that isn’t your own political philosophy?

    You want Boris gone, I believe you, but what part of that philosophy don’t you like?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has anyone else tried contacting HMRC recently?
    Tried three times today. Simply say they are too busy. Goodbye.
    Not even the joy of an hour on hold
    They've deducted me money for a tax credit overpayment completely without warning.

    They’re all working from fucking home. We tried to tell you. It’s shit
    You don't need to be sitting in an office to answer a phone.
    That's just an excuse.
    But this is why this shit is happening. It is a disaster for the British economy, if it continues

    As an international flintic dildo maker and salesman, I can say it is clearly impacting my industry (seriously). The people that are back in the office are On their Game, they respond quickly, they do their job. The people who are WFH reply much slower, they are less alert in general, and less aware of industry news and gossip, and they are hard to hear on phone calls (“Oh sorry that’s my husband slapping the dog” - GO BACK TO THE FUCKING OFFICE THEN)

    I reckon we are about to discover there is a reason we have big cities and complex offices, and the cities and offices that function properly will entirely out-compete the people sitting in their stupid gardens. This is not an invention of the Tory party because of its commercial property owning donors
    I moderately agree with this.

    Some sectors are coping well with WFH,
    Others, not. Customer service generally is down, not just in the public sector.
    This should come as a surprise to no-one. Who would want to work in a call centre-type occupation - whether office or home based - if they had a better alternative? And, in a low unemployment environment, better alternatives (consisting of practically every other kind of job imaginable) are easier than usual to come by.

    Then, of course, the harder businesses find it to recruit workers willing to put up with a constant barrage of shouting from enraged customers, the smaller the available pool of call handlers, the worse the service becomes, the more rage the remaining staff have to put up with, and the more likely they are to get out as soon as they can find another minimum wage crap job that's less liable to cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

    It's the sort of vicious cycle that can only be broken by a spike in joblessness that forces workers to endure the misery, for want of anywhere else to go.
    Yes, you have fairly accurately described why our admin booking centre staff and clinic clerks have mostly left. It is rather hampering tackling our outpatient backlogs.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    BartholomewRoberts - I'm glad to hear that your wife is out of the hospital, which is a hopeful sign. And I hope they catch the driver who hit her, soon.

    (In my area -- a relatively civilized suburb of Seattle -- it's my impression that pedestrians are more threatened than they were, say, ten years ago. There has been an increase in traffic, and both car drivers and pedestrians are more likely to be engrossed in their cellphones. I've started watching out for cellphone users in the same way I have always watched out for children and drunks. And I think many people are now on edge here because of the pandemic.

    The graph in this Axios article shows that there is certainly a bad trend, nationally: https://www.axios.com/2022/02/21/pedestrian-deaths-rise-covid-19

    I half joke that now when I go out walking, as I often do, I dial up my paranoia level a bit, and advise others to do the same.)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Rangers. Fuck these Scouse c*nts and traitors who BOO BEAUTY. Let Real Madrid hammer them

    But loyal, sober Unionists and royalists? Go, lads

    I am somewhat surprised how personally you have taken Liverpool fans booing at Wembley on Saturday. I truly thought you would love the madness, the anti-establishment chaos and rebellion. The “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” behaviour.

    It’s all part of life’s rich pageant and amazed you are bent out of shape by it.

    I’m a monarchist conservative and it really doesn’t bother me at all - it’s just jolly japes at a football match.

    If they annoyed you by being controversialist then it’s getting very Meta!!

    What next - demanding seats rather than pit at a Metallica concert? Cocoa rather than Cognac before bed? Tsk Tsk.
    No, it makes me puke. Because I know where it comes from

    By all means Boo the National Anthem. Boo Prince William. Hurl your turds at Princess Kate, Whatever, you sad tattoeed fat fucks

    But booing ABIDE WITH ME??

    That is pure vandalism, it is the degradation of the human soul and the hatred of loveliness, in the most ugly way. It is something very Liverpudlian - a diseased city - but it spreads like a fungus. Fuck them all.

    Remember Heysel
    If Liverpool fans are tarred by Heysel then what are you and I tarred with by virtue of being English?
    Is this even serious?

    We conquered the world. And it was mainly good. We didn’t push over a wall and kill some Italian teens during a football match. Get a grip

    Ok. Fair enough - if we are going simplistic (it wasn’t just Italian teens and it wasn’t just a simple case of some Liverpool fans pushing over a wall out of nothing).

    Amritsar - we just controlled a riot as quickly as possible - naughty Indian teens….

    Thing is you are probably the poster I agree most with on here for my sins but I’m staggered how miffed you have been by booing a pretty rubbish hymn - if it had been “I vow to thee my country” then I would be in my tank towards Anfield Road but really, perspective?
    I hear you.

    Maybe I always had this secret Simon Heffer-esque contempt for ugly, contemptible, obese, do-nothing Liverpool? But I hid it. OK, they booed our 96-year Queen during the year of her Platinum Jubilee, and a year or two after our widowhood. Maybe I could have contained myself, if they had done only that. But booing a beautiful religious hymn with the most profound lyrics ever written about humanity yielding with grace to mortality, WTAF??

    They are monkeys. They are an element in working class British culture - fat, wanky, ugly, dumb, inadequate, Philistine, pathetic and gruesomely proud of it - which I utterly despise. Let them sink into the Irish Sea. Millwall have more nobility
    I get you but you are in danger of going full-Roger…..
    What would Bill Shankly or Ian Paisley have thought of them booing the Queen, or booing the National Anthem, and then booing ABIDE WITH ME?

    I do not think they would have expressed admiration. And their bewildered contempt would be justified. We have regressed as a nation and a culture and Liverpool fans are the pimply, wobbly, nihilistic cutting edge. Well done, lads
    They most likely wouldn’t have approved. Much in the way they looked down on hard drinking, drugs, prostitution. The past being a different country and all that. They wouldn’t have approved of most of the things you and I have done/do I would imagine.

    But it’s a few thousand people out of a huge population who are set free to be rumbunctious, agitated, angry, happy, stupid , whatever for an afternoon, it’s quite wonderful really that they can boo these things and not be dragged off to Siberia. I think the arch socialist Shankly for one would have approved of that freedom.
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