Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
And the same point was made on pb in the last thread so, erm, Fabricant was right.
That's the difference between outsiders discussing practicalities of where we are and a colleague having a bit of fun with it. The latter is distasteful.
I always think that Fabricant looks like a caricature of Boris Johnson. He could be a stunt double for Bozo's Spitting Image puppet.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
And the same point was made on pb in the last thread so, erm, Fabricant was right.
That's the difference between outsiders discussing practicalities of where we are and a colleague having a bit of fun with it. The latter is distasteful.
I always think that Fabricant looks like a caricature of Boris Johnson. He could be a stunt double for Bozo's Spitting Image puppet.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
Incidentally, I assume that Boris can't have forgotten what he did when he was mayor, so I assume his "I started Crossrail" boast was yet another lie.
What exactly did he say? If he says that construction started when he was mayor, that I think that's correct. He became mayor in 2008, and construction started in 2009.
Of course, the project was a longstanding one, with the original idea coming from George Down during WWII, and the Crossrail name being nearly as old as I am.
However given the mess Crossrail became, I'm surprised people actually want to 'own' the project...
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
And the same point was made on pb in the last thread so, erm, Fabricant was right.
That's the difference between outsiders discussing practicalities of where we are and a colleague having a bit of fun with it. The latter is distasteful.
I always think that Fabricant looks like a caricature of Boris Johnson. He could be a stunt double for Bozo's Spitting Image puppet.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
One ill advised tweet but otherwise Michael Fabricant is one of the most colourful characters in the Commons and a hardworking local MP.
Hence he got 64% of the vote in Lichfield in 2019
Sufficiently "colourful" that he'd be wise to avoid making light of this particular issue.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
One ill advised tweet but otherwise Michael Fabricant is one of the most colourful characters in the Commons and a hardworking local MP.
Hence he got 64% of the vote in Lichfield in 2019
I'm pretty sure he has a personal vote from people who wouldn't otherwise vote Conservative. They like his irreverent attitude to politics.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
Obviously those of us who do not work there won't know the details and such bullying should be challenged and addressed, but it is remarkable how many strike days on TfL seem to occur on or around weekends and bank holidays. Prediction - if the weather is wet and miserable that day, it will get resolved, if its sunny, the strike will go ahead.
Indeed. Strike action is completely unnecessary and disproportionate. If there is evidence of workplace bullying the appropriate course of action is compensation through the courts which the unions should support. Just an excuse for shirking.
A pilot or an intruder deliberately forced a China Eastern airliner into a dive, causing the crash in March that killed all 132 people aboard, according to American officials.
Data from the flight recorder recovered from the Boeing 737 showed that human inputs to the controls forced it to plummet into a mountainside near the city of Wuzhou, according to members of the US side of the investigation. The two “black box” recorders from the aircraft, which were both damaged, were sent by China to Washington for US experts to recover the data.
The American account, reported by The Wall Street Journal, follows weeks of secrecy from Chinese officials and appears to confirm the leading theory of experts. This holds that only human action such as murder-suicide by a pilot could explain the near-vertical trajectory of the aircraft.
“The plane did what it was told to do by someone in the cockpit,” a person familiar with the initial assessment by experts on the US National Transportation Safety Board told the Journal. Attention has focused on a pilot, although it remains possible that another person entered the flight deck and took over the controls.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
A lot of voters deserve to be insulted, but the reality is that it is the system that enables a twat like Fabricant to be an MP, let alone Boris Johnson to be PM (or Mr Thicky Corbyn almost) needs serious reform.
Not watched PMQs for ages, and now I remember why.
Starmer going on inflation. But what's the solution? I've never wanted to subscribe to the thought that "they're all the same", but when it comes to monetary policy, they are the same.
Indeed most common comment on the doorstep.
Completely went away in 2017
Now back big style according to the few former comrades still flogging a dead horse for Labour
Indeed it went away big style as people reacted with horror at Corbyn and said "anyone but him".
Voters think they're all the same is big progress for Labour.
So SKS will do better than 2017 then?
No chance
On current polling he will be PM.
On current polling in May 2019 Corbyn was going to be PM
2 years before a GE with a cost of living crisis worse than for a generation any other Labour leader would be nailed on
SKSWNBPM
And 6 months later led Labour to its most catastrophic defeat since the 1930s
Precisely and his lead then was bigger than the 3% SKS lead now
Corbyn had two goes and lost twice and ushered in the Boris eta leaving Labour bitterly divided and with a vote back at 1930s levels. Hard to imagine him doing worse.
Indeed. I believe leafy, remainey Huntite/Cameronite conservative seats would have been very fertile ground for LibDems in 2019 but for the fact that a vote for the LibDems risked a Corbyn premiership. Centre left voters held their nose to vote for Corbyn and against Boris but I think the opposite was also true. Personally, faced with such a choice, I can't really blame anyone for voting for Boris or Corbyn.
That's not such a problem anymore, because Starmer is much less of a threat. 'Vote LibDem and get Starmer' isn't going to keep anti-Boris Tories in line in quite the same way.
Indeed, hence in the local elections the Tories lost more council seats to the LDs in the Home Counties than they did to Labour in the redwall.
Labour did better in central London than the Midlands
Last 5 polls before local elections, Labour in 40s in all. All 7 polls since local elections, Labour not once in 40s.
Last 5 polls before local elections, Tories 34, 33, 35, 35, 35, since local elections, 35, 34, 34, 33, 33, 34, 35.
The other measurement, Lab Lib green added together, not shrunk at all since locals, despite lower Lab scores, Lib clearly up and green too.
Conclusion. Gap closing, but not thanks to Tories gaining.
Usual Caveats. There is consistent trend, Tories not above 35, labour 4 or 5 clear, but Vagaries of samples could easily throw up misleading headlines showing nothing between the main parties. And once a month Tories always get a bonus of Opinium, Kantor (and occasional yougov joins in) always showing smallest leads, like several buses coming at once, so it depends which part of the month, the Labour bit or Tory bit you look at it. Also for trends we need to look at similar movement from the one poster polls showing up in other posters polls.
In terms of political narrative, my hunch is Torys need a lead soon as this month is their opportunity, as they are taking a lot of negative flak in media last week or so, this may not show immediately in polling (some say it takes couple of weeks).
That couple of weeks to impact polls suggestion is interesting, has it ever been proved? It feels like it is happening, but makes no sense why it’s not quicker? The hammering of Starmer before locals didn’t seem to show in his ratings at first, but is beginning to now, two weeks later?
So as we move into June the polls will start to show Tories drifting further behind is my call. Possibly beginning of a 92-97 polling death spiral. That’s my analysis and prediction.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
And the same point was made on pb in the last thread so, erm, Fabricant was right.
That's the difference between outsiders discussing practicalities of where we are and a colleague having a bit of fun with it. The latter is distasteful.
I always think that Fabricant looks like a caricature of Boris Johnson. He could be a stunt double for Bozo's Spitting Image puppet.
He's a 7th generation clone.
'The ontological status of the fabricant, though articulated as cognitively coherent and definitively Other, [...] is nonetheless perpetually unsettled [...], oscillating between organic and inorganic, simultaneously manifesting properties of the machine, the human, the clone and the cyborg.'
From Dunlop, 'Speculative Fiction as Postcolonial Critique' in 'David Mitchell: Critical Essays'.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
The Tories have been insulting the voters for TWELVE years.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
One ill advised tweet but otherwise Michael Fabricant is one of the most colourful characters in the Commons and a hardworking local MP.
Hence he got 64% of the vote in Lichfield in 2019
I'm pretty sure he has a personal vote from people who wouldn't otherwise vote Conservative. They like his irreverent attitude to politics.
I misread that at first and thought you said "They like his irreLEVAnt attitude to politics
Truss should resign if that's true. Even Boris as FO wouldn't have come out with anything so crass.
Yes it would be a resigning matter. But provable, just hearsay or worse: not even true?
The bigger problem for Truss maybe she is looking so tired yesterday, especially this morning, is Boris putting too much on her. FO in the war crisis, does she need the NIP work as well? Why not Brandon Lewis to help with that? 😕
Now he’s been to the barbers for his spring cut, my dad looks a bit like Brandon Lewis today 💇🏻♂️
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Last 5 polls before local elections, Labour in 40s in all. All 7 polls since local elections, Labour not once in 40s.
Last 5 polls before local elections, Tories 34, 33, 35, 35, 35, since local elections, 35, 34, 34, 33, 33, 34, 35.
The other measurement, Lab Lib green added together, not shrunk at all since locals, despite lower Lab scores, Lib clearly up and green too.
Conclusion. Gap closing, but not thanks to Tories gaining.
Usual Caveats. There is consistent trend, Tories not above 35, labour 4 or 5 clear, but Vagaries of samples could easily throw up misleading headlines showing nothing between the main parties. And once a month Tories always get a bonus of Opinium, Kantor (and occasional yougov joins in) always showing smallest leads, like several buses coming at once, so it depends which part of the month, the Labour bit or Tory bit you look at it. Also for trends we need to look at similar movement from the one poster polls showing up in other posters polls.
In terms of political narrative, my hunch is Torys need a lead soon as this month is their opportunity, as they are taking a lot of negative flak in media last week or so, this may not show immediately in polling (some say it takes couple of weeks).
That couple of weeks to impact polls suggestion is interesting, has it ever been proved? It feels like it is happening, but makes no sense why it’s not quicker? The hammering of Starmer before locals didn’t seem to show in his ratings at first, but is beginning to now, two weeks later?
So as we move into June the polls will start to show Tories drifting further behind is my call. Possibly beginning of a 92-97 polling death spiral. That’s my analysis and prediction.
The Tories were 20% behind in many polls pre 1997. They are barely 5% behind now in most polls
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
The Tories have been insulting the voters for TWELVE years.
But just two and a half years ago, they got a majority of 80.
Perhaps the voters have a masochistic streak in them?
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
Bit harsh to characterise the entire population of Lichfield like that.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
The Tories have been insulting the voters for TWELVE years.
But just two and a half years ago, they got a majority of 80.
Perhaps the voters have a masochistic streak in them?
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
Yet at the local elections last month the Tories made gains in Leave areas in the North and Midlands from Sandwell to Bolton and held Dudley and Walsall even with Corbyn gone while also advancing further in Leave areas of Essex like Harlow.
Yet in Remain areas of London and the South the Tories lost councils like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Woking, Tunbridge Wells, Wokingham, West Oxfordshire etc (also losing wealthy Theydon Bois and Ingatestone in Essex to the LDs) now Starmer has replaced Corbyn and is less of a threat to wealth Remainers
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
I do think you have to factor in the Brexit fatigue factor in 2019. People were sick of hearing about it:
@AaronBastani Speaking to a young guy after an event recently I was struck by what he said “Imagine with Covid, inflation & Russia we were still arguing over Brexit? It still wouldn’t be solved today. Only one party offered a conclusion in 2019”.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
“why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories?”
My argument would be, why did the Tories want to swallow ukip, if ukip could hurt labour too in these seats? My theory creates a home for leavers who can’t bring themselves to vote for Tories next time, from switching straight to Starmer’s Labour. It siphons off enough votes to stop labour getting over the line.
A bit like standing a “literal democrat” at top of the ballot paper, only a proper candidate focusing on local Labour voters.
Okay, if I said anti Starmer local Labour candidates, and left the “protect Brexit” bit off the ballot paper, do you see my point now how it would help Tories? A “anti Starmer, pro Wakefield labour” candidate in this by election would probably hand the win to the Conservative would it not? That’s why I have bet so heavily on Tory win, as this I think will happen.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
It was the free tuition fees he offered that really attracted them
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
I do think you have to factor in the Brexit fatigue factor in 2019. People were sick of hearing about it:
@AaronBastani Speaking to a young guy after an event recently I was struck by what he said “Imagine with Covid, inflation & Russia we were still arguing over Brexit? It still wouldn’t be solved today. Only one party offered a conclusion in 2019”.
You have to admire the electoral genius/chutzpah of a party that creates a problem, then wins an election by promising to solve the problem, and then hopes to win the next election by promising to tear up that solution because it's shit.
Last 5 polls before local elections, Labour in 40s in all. All 7 polls since local elections, Labour not once in 40s.
Last 5 polls before local elections, Tories 34, 33, 35, 35, 35, since local elections, 35, 34, 34, 33, 33, 34, 35.
The other measurement, Lab Lib green added together, not shrunk at all since locals, despite lower Lab scores, Lib clearly up and green too.
Conclusion. Gap closing, but not thanks to Tories gaining.
Usual Caveats. There is consistent trend, Tories not above 35, labour 4 or 5 clear, but Vagaries of samples could easily throw up misleading headlines showing nothing between the main parties. And once a month Tories always get a bonus of Opinium, Kantor (and occasional yougov joins in) always showing smallest leads, like several buses coming at once, so it depends which part of the month, the Labour bit or Tory bit you look at it. Also for trends we need to look at similar movement from the one poster polls showing up in other posters polls.
In terms of political narrative, my hunch is Torys need a lead soon as this month is their opportunity, as they are taking a lot of negative flak in media last week or so, this may not show immediately in polling (some say it takes couple of weeks).
That couple of weeks to impact polls suggestion is interesting, has it ever been proved? It feels like it is happening, but makes no sense why it’s not quicker? The hammering of Starmer before locals didn’t seem to show in his ratings at first, but is beginning to now, two weeks later?
So as we move into June the polls will start to show Tories drifting further behind is my call. Possibly beginning of a 92-97 polling death spiral. That’s my analysis and prediction.
The Tories were 20% behind in many polls pre 1997. They are barely 5% behind now in most polls
Yes. True…
But I’m predicting this parliaments Tory death spiral to begin in exactly two weeks time. 😈
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
The Tories have been insulting the voters for TWELVE years.
But just two and a half years ago, they got a majority of 80.
Perhaps the voters have a masochistic streak in them?
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
And the same point was made on pb in the last thread so, erm, Fabricant was right.
That's the difference between outsiders discussing practicalities of where we are and a colleague having a bit of fun with it. The latter is distasteful.
I always think that Fabricant looks like a caricature of Boris Johnson. He could be a stunt double for Bozo's Spitting Image puppet.
He's a 7th generation clone.
'The ontological status of the fabricant, though articulated as cognitively coherent and definitively Other, [...] is nonetheless perpetually unsettled [...], oscillating between organic and inorganic, simultaneously manifesting properties of the machine, the human, the clone and the cyborg.'
From Dunlop, 'Speculative Fiction as Postcolonial Critique' in 'David Mitchell: Critical Essays'.
That a very long way of saying tosser.
I see he's taken the tweet down, so apparently has a sliver more shame than some posters here.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
Bit harsh to characterise the entire population of Lichfield like that.
Yep. Only evident for the approx 45% of the electorate that voted for him, to be fair.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
Yet at the local elections last month the Tories made gains in Leave areas in the North and Midlands from Sandwell to Bolton and held Dudley and Walsall even with Corbyn gone while also advancing further in Leave areas of Essex like Harlow.
Yet in Remain areas of London and the South the Tories lost councils like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Woking, Tunbridge Wells, Wokingham, West Oxfordshire etc (also losing wealthy Theydon Bois and Ingatestone in Essex to the LDs) now Starmer has replaced Corbyn and is less of a threat to wealth Remainers
There has been a shifting demographic aligned with gentrification in a number of those areas, so once again you are applying poor analysis with little sophistication. It is possible that in some areas there are lots of swivel-eyed nutjobs who still buy the Daily Express and rant on about the EU all the time, but I suspect they are in the minority. The polling evidence (as shown by OGH on here a number of times) clearly shows the "Red Wall" was mainly motivated by keeping Corbyn out in 2019.
If I may make a suggestion (as I have said so many times before), perhaps you could try speaking less in absolutes, as though your opinion is fact, and then people might take your perspective a little more seriously?
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
The Tories have been insulting the voters for TWELVE years.
But just two and a half years ago, they got a majority of 80.
Perhaps the voters have a masochistic streak in them?
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
I do think you have to factor in the Brexit fatigue factor in 2019. People were sick of hearing about it:
@AaronBastani Speaking to a young guy after an event recently I was struck by what he said “Imagine with Covid, inflation & Russia we were still arguing over Brexit? It still wouldn’t be solved today. Only one party offered a conclusion in 2019”.
You have to admire the electoral genius/chutzpah of a party that creates a problem, then wins an election by promising to solve the problem, and then hopes to win the next election by promising to tear up that solution because it's shit.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
An education doesn't necessarily immunise the young person, or an older one for that matter, from gullibility.
Incidentally, I assume that Boris can't have forgotten what he did when he was mayor, so I assume his "I started Crossrail" boast was yet another lie.
What exactly did he say? If he says that construction started when he was mayor, that I think that's correct. He became mayor in 2008, and construction started in 2009.
Of course, the project was a longstanding one, with the original idea coming from George Down during WWII, and the Crossrail name being nearly as old as I am.
However given the mess Crossrail became, I'm surprised people actually want to 'own' the project...
To be fair, when he left office it was pretty much on time and on budget compared with when he took office, which can't be said of his successor.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
It was the free tuition fees he offered that really attracted them
That can't be it. Somehow our universities are hotbeds of daftness. (Some too are hotbeds of wisdom as well)
Corbyn is a magnificent example of someone that should have roughly 0% support. A poll suggesting that Corbyn would be a good PM should have zero support.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
You get what you vote for. What kind of person do you have to be to turn out to vote for *that*? And yet when @Heathener tried to describe them justly got roundly attacked for it.
Keep insulting the voters and Labour will be out of power for another 10 years.
The Tories have been insulting the voters for TWELVE years.
But just two and a half years ago, they got a majority of 80.
Perhaps the voters have a masochistic streak in them?
Incidentally, I assume that Boris can't have forgotten what he did when he was mayor, so I assume his "I started Crossrail" boast was yet another lie.
What exactly did he say? If he says that construction started when he was mayor, that I think that's correct. He became mayor in 2008, and construction started in 2009.
Of course, the project was a longstanding one, with the original idea coming from George Down during WWII, and the Crossrail name being nearly as old as I am.
However given the mess Crossrail became, I'm surprised people actually want to 'own' the project...
To be fair, when he left office it was pretty much on time and on budget compared with when he took office, which can't be said of his successor.
Wasn't the decision to fund it actually taken by Gordon Brown, loath as I am to give him credit for anything ?
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
Bit harsh to characterise the entire population of Lichfield like that.
Yep. Only evident for the approx 45% of the electorate that voted for him, to be fair.
What was the percentage of the electorate who voted for someone else ?
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
It was the free tuition fees he offered that really attracted them
Erm, no. I loath Corbyn and his ilk more than most but that wasn’t his appeal. It might have been part of it but when you spoke to those who loved him and weren’t previously politically engaged (e.g. weren’t the usual far left mob) it was because he spoke with compassion and about hope for the future.
And punishing thousands of tourists visiting London for the day is a great way to resolve the dispute.
They need to maximise their leverage. Don't blame them.
And fuck the tourists, eh?
I am sure Tourists would want to know the workers serving them and making their experience of London so special were treated with respect and treated well in the workplace.
The fault, as I am sure the tourists would agree, lays with management for allowing this to fester.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
Bit harsh to characterise the entire population of Lichfield like that.
Yep. Only evident for the approx 45% of the electorate that voted for him, to be fair.
What was the percentage of the electorate who voted for someone else ?
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
An education doesn't necessarily immunise the young person, or an older one for that matter, from gullibility.
I dislike the left. But I really hate them when they can't even be bothered to do 'the left' well. And that's all the time.
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
Bit harsh to characterise the entire population of Lichfield like that.
Yep. Only evident for the approx 45% of the electorate that voted for him, to be fair.
What was the percentage of the electorate who voted for someone else ?
Errrr ......55% ?
Do you seriously think the turnout was 100%.
He had 64.5% of the vote on a 70% turnout. Hence 45% of the full electorate voted for him.
Partaking in the WFH review meeting somebody* brought up an excellent point.
Commuting and petrol prices have gone up a lot and the government wants us to go back to the office and be even poorer. They can fuck right off.
The optics are terrible for the government and expect them to become unpopular.
*Not me, yes I’m as surprised as you.
Apparently Boris Johnson doesn't want WFH to continue because he finds himself going to the fridge and eating cheese. Considering how obese he looks that is a lot of fecking cheese.
Partaking in the WFH review meeting somebody* brought up an excellent point.
Commuting and petrol prices have gone up a lot and the government wants us to go back to the office and be even poorer. They can fuck right off.
The optics are terrible for the government and expect them to become unpopular.
*Not me, yes I’m as surprised as you.
Apparently Boris Johnson doesn't want WFH to continue because he finds himself going to the fridge and eating cheese. Considering how obese he looks that is a lot of fecking cheese.
Well it was a bit of truth from Boris. We've not had much of that.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
It was the free tuition fees he offered that really attracted them
Quite, when the current lot have hiked up the vigorish on student loans to a level that would shame a Sarf London gangster resident in a nice gaff in Epping.
Partaking in the WFH review meeting somebody* brought up an excellent point.
Commuting and petrol prices have gone up a lot and the government wants us to go back to the office and be even poorer. They can fuck right off.
The optics are terrible for the government and expect them to become unpopular.
*Not me, yes I’m as surprised as you.
Apparently Boris Johnson doesn't want WFH to continue because he finds himself going to the fridge and eating cheese. Considering how obese he looks that is a lot of fecking cheese.
More like the newspaper owners and London commercial property investors are leaning on him.
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
It was the free tuition fees he offered that really attracted them
Erm, no. I loath Corbyn and his ilk more than most but that wasn’t his appeal. It might have been part of it but when you spoke to those who loved him and weren’t previously politically engaged (e.g. weren’t the usual far left mob) it was because he spoke with compassion and about hope for the future.
If they owned their own property and didn't have any student debt he could have spoken with as much compassion and hope as he wanted, they would still have voted Tory
Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇺🇦 @Mike_Fabricant I am expecting a strong turnout of Conservative MPs at Prime Minister's Questions today. Not only to demonstrate their strong support for #Boris (!!). BUT also to prove they are NOT the one told by the Chief Whip to stay at home. I'll be there!😜
Disgusting
Tory whips have asked him to remove it according to BBC2
What are the people of Lichfield thinking electing such a twat
Tone deaf. Not a clue
Bit harsh to characterise the entire population of Lichfield like that.
Yep. Only evident for the approx 45% of the electorate that voted for him, to be fair.
What was the percentage of the electorate who voted for someone else ?
Errrr ......55% ?
Do you seriously think the turnout was 100%.
He had 64.5% of the vote on a 70% turnout. Hence 45% of the full electorate voted for him.
Sorry I misread, I thought it was hadn't voted for him.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Two tanks are struck in very rapid succession- it is said this is deep behind the front lines.
Actually a very cost effective stand off weapon - we've signed some deal to re-equip some of Poland's old AFVs with it.
Some of the descriptions of the Brimstone targeting technology sound like magic, so I'm not sure quite how accurate they are, but looks pretty good in that video.
Ukraine do seem to be under a lot of pressure in the Severodonetsk salient despite all the weapons, though.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
Loads of comments 🙂
Have you got any comment on this one?
The New York Times have run a story suggesting the Tory party have taken more iffy rubles.
The New York Times (NYT) said it had reviewed documents linked to the donation, which was recorded as £450,000 by the party, and said it originated in a Russian account of Sir Ehud’s father-in-law, Sergei Kopytov. The NYT said Barclays bank, in an alert sent to the National Crime Agency in 2021, identified with “considerable certainty” Mr Kopytov to have been the “true source of the donation”.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
Sure, Windfall taxes are a terrible idea which usually end up with the customer paying.
No good Conservative should support a windfall tax, they are the ultimate virtual signal tax.
Which is why I expect this government to announce one soon.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
Loads of comments 🙂
Have you got any comment on this one?
The New York Times have run a story suggesting the Tory party have taken more iffy rubles.
The New York Times (NYT) said it had reviewed documents linked to the donation, which was recorded as £450,000 by the party, and said it originated in a Russian account of Sir Ehud’s father-in-law, Sergei Kopytov. The NYT said Barclays bank, in an alert sent to the National Crime Agency in 2021, identified with “considerable certainty” Mr Kopytov to have been the “true source of the donation”.
I have no idea about this story and it is up to the authorities to investigate if wrong doing is suspected
However, that is deflecting from my post which questions the veracity of not only Starmers report on beergate, but labours position on the windfall tax providing £200 and £600 for some, which Rachel Reeves clearly has had to clarify in the HOC this afternoon
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps they preferred Jezza to Theresa but preferred Boris to Jezza. That would make sense as Theresa was the archetypal Tory woman who'd have got their backs up, whereas Boris's appeal famously transcends party preferences.
I rather wonder that our education system produces people that like Corbyn. You may as well emerge from uni and try to eat rocks. Quite how the stupidest people on the planet inflame the allegedly educated young baffles me entirely.
It was the free tuition fees he offered that really attracted them
Quite, when the current lot have hiked up the vigorish on student loans to a level that would shame a Sarf London gangster resident in a nice gaff in Epping.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
Sure, Windfall taxes are a terrible idea which usually end up with the customer paying.
No good Conservative should support a windfall tax, they are the ultimate virtual signal tax.
Which is why I expect this government to announce one soon.
Ten minutes after they do, labour will say 'it doesn't go far enough'
Which is, essentially, all they have been saying since December 2019.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is also accurate.
You always get into trouble when you have to start explaining and that is not the way Labour have sold this policy
Spokesperson after spokesperson said £200 of energy bills and up to £600 and on occasions I listened to them say £600 off bills
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Partaking in the WFH review meeting somebody* brought up an excellent point.
Commuting and petrol prices have gone up a lot and the government wants us to go back to the office and be even poorer. They can fuck right off.
The optics are terrible for the government and expect them to become unpopular.
*Not me, yes I’m as surprised as you.
The cost of commuting to my last job was considerably less than I paid in extra heating bills and electricity bills by WFH during lockdown. And that was before the price hikes.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
Exactly £200 off average household energy bills and upto £600 for some is simply not the case, and nobody applied the caveats you are suggesting
Most everyone would expect £200 towards their energy bill
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is also accurate.
You always get into trouble when you have to start explaining and that is not the way Labour have sold this policy
Spokesperson after spokesperson said £200 of energy bills and up to £600 and on occasions I listened to them say £600 off bills
I don't understand why they are so bad at this.
If this was a business, you'd have the one pager with a 1 paragraph "elevator pitch" for the policy, a list of key objections with specific responses, 5 or so key benefit talking points that cover off the main features. Anything you don't have on the crib sheet you respond with "I will have to refer you to the [person responsible] for that detail, but [reiterate the benefit for the area relevant to the question].
Everyone works from the crib sheet. Noone gets drawn on nuances or explanations.
Instead, we get half a dozen MPs with their own interpretations and angles, contradictions, half explanations.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I offer up the Conservative definition of a 'new' and indeed 'hospital' for the court...
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
Now here is labour's problem in one comment
Keir Starmer has committed to resign if he gets a FPN and demands everyone in Labour tells the truth
Spinning is misleading the public and below Starmer's bar he has set labour
Two tanks are struck in very rapid succession- it is said this is deep behind the front lines.
Actually a very cost effective stand off weapon - we've signed some deal to re-equip some of Poland's old AFVs with it.
Some of the descriptions of the Brimstone targeting technology sound like magic, so I'm not sure quite how accurate they are, but looks pretty good in that video.
Ukraine do seem to be under a lot of pressure in the Severodonetsk salient despite all the weapons, though.
This is the perfect war for Brimstone. It’s programmed to know exactly what Russian armour looks like (though that must add a friendly fire risk in Ukraine). It had looked a bit dated vs. Toyotas in Afghanistan. That’s the catch - it has to “know” what it’s looking for.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I offer up the Conservative definition of a 'new' and indeed 'hospital' for the court...
Ah, you mean counting a new car parking space for the Chief Executive outside a hospital as a "new hospital". That kind of thing?
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I mean, they're literally intending for people to hear "you'll get £600" and gloss over the "up to".
And, yeah, I'm not saying they're any worse than the other side. As usual, they're all pretty much the same.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I offer up the Conservative definition of a 'new' and indeed 'hospital' for the court...
Ah, you mean counting a new car parking space for the Chief Executive outside a hospital as a "new hospital". That kind of thing?
It’s at times like this I miss proper Liberals. They might point out that starting a massive programme of fuel bill subsidies is easier than ending one, and there are other, better, ways to target cash.
Instead we’re about to get an auction between the two main parties.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I mean, they're literally intending for people to hear "you'll get £600" and gloss over the "up to".
And, yeah, I'm not saying they're any worse than the other side. As usual, they're all pretty much the same.
The *incredibly* stupid thing is that £100/household sounds no worse than £600/household...If and only if noone has offered £600/household first.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I offer up the Conservative definition of a 'new' and indeed 'hospital' for the court...
Ah, you mean counting a new car parking space for the Chief Executive outside a hospital as a "new hospital". That kind of thing?
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
Sure, Windfall taxes are a terrible idea which usually end up with the customer paying.
No good Conservative should support a windfall tax, they are the ultimate virtual signal tax.
Which is why I expect this government to announce one soon.
Ten minutes after they do, labour will say 'it doesn't go far enough'
Which is, essentially, all they have been saying since December 2019.
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I offer up the Conservative definition of a 'new' and indeed 'hospital' for the court...
Ah, you mean counting a new car parking space for the Chief Executive outside a hospital as a "new hospital". That kind of thing?
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
I offer up the Conservative definition of a 'new' and indeed 'hospital' for the court...
Ah, you mean counting a new car parking space for the Chief Executive outside a hospital as a "new hospital". That kind of thing?
TBF its mostly new wards/treatment centres, but thats almost as ridiculous!
My view is that Tiverton & Honiton will go LibDem in a big way. It could be pretty seismic and will continue a huge yellow surge in the blue wall.
Wakefield ought to be a Labour win and they've finally settled on a good candidate but the initial rumpus over selection was not very smart by Starmer's aides and it tells me that they STILL don't get the new Conservative red wall voters.
That bodes badly in my opinion for Labour in the General Election. I'm expecting them to do fail in the former red wall seats. Uneducated and unethical people will stay loyal to Boris. He will lose his majority but Labour's failure to engage with the Brexit mob (as I have just failed to do) will cost them.
I agree with you about Labour possibly struggling in Wakefield, Heathener. If your messaging and persuasive skills can’t even prevent the local party resigning on mass, how is it going to persuade voters to switch?
Yesterday I placed bully on Tories at 6-1. Any sort of candidate from ‘disgruntled, red wall, leave their entire lives labour’ splitting the vote surely hands this one to Tories?
In a way, as a wake up call (see what I did there) it might be some good for Labour, slapped with a wet cold haddock to realise now rather than two years they have problems appealing in the red wall Tory seats, this failure coming soon after similar struggles recent local election night.
However, it also gives Tory’s a path back to Downing Street, if they are really underhand and despicably not playing by the rules to take it - to find and field anti Starmer labour splitters in all the red wall defences at next election. The story of election night would be, Tories 21K, Labour 19K, Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ 5K, over and over throughout the night.
You're thinking that Brexit is still popular in the ex-Red Wall seats. If so why would the 'Leave Labour ‘protect brexit’ candidate not hurt the Tories? No the Tories won those seats by convincing voters that the Tories would not ignore them as Labour had for years.
Nope they voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. Nothing more
No, otherwise they would have voted Tory in 2017 too when Corbyn was also Labour leader rather than Labour.
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
You keep claiming this and yet the polling data produced by OGH confirms my point. Stop repeating propaganda, and try not to start your sentences with "no" when you are only stating an unsupported opinion.
It doesn't.
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Oh dear, for someone who likes to pretend he is expert in this you don't have much ability to analyse. The result in 2017 was ambiguous because a lot of people assumed that TMay was going to get a landslide. The electorate swung back to Labour because they thought there was zero chance of a Corbyn win. When people realised how close we came to PM Corbyn they voted in 2019for Dumb rather than Dumber to keep Dumb out. OGH's polling data demonstrated this was by far the strongest motivation for previous Labour voters to vote Conservative IIRC. I suspect a large number of these voters couldn't give a flying fuck about "get Brexit done", but that is just my opinion, which has about as much supporting evidence as bit of CCHQ propaganda.
Yet at the local elections last month the Tories made gains in Leave areas in the North and Midlands from Sandwell to Bolton and held Dudley and Walsall even with Corbyn gone while also advancing further in Leave areas of Essex like Harlow.
Yet in Remain areas of London and the South the Tories lost councils like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Woking, Tunbridge Wells, Wokingham, West Oxfordshire etc (also losing wealthy Theydon Bois and Ingatestone in Essex to the LDs) now Starmer has replaced Corbyn and is less of a threat to wealth Remainers
There has been a shifting demographic aligned with gentrification in a number of those areas, so once again you are applying poor analysis with little sophistication. It is possible that in some areas there are lots of swivel-eyed nutjobs who still buy the Daily Express and rant on about the EU all the time, but I suspect they are in the minority. The polling evidence (as shown by OGH on here a number of times) clearly shows the "Red Wall" was mainly motivated by keeping Corbyn out in 2019.
If I may make a suggestion (as I have said so many times before), perhaps you could try speaking less in absolutes, as though your opinion is fact, and then people might take your perspective a little more seriously?
This is a succinct account of why the Tories are in real trouble and likely to lose next time. Nothing revelatory, just common sense, really. They need to remove Boris, but won't be able to.
"Ted Heath and Jim Callaghan lost elections after struggling to manage the fallout from the oil shocks of the early and late 1970s. There are many differences between then and now. But the problems of energy and prices could prove to be just as unmanageable, and just as politically devastating for the government. If so, its current blues could prove less mid-term than terminal."
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
New Labour being dishonest.
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Not the case. Labour has always said that it is only the poorest households that will get £600 off their bills, and carefully couched it as 'up to £600', with most getting less or nothing. The refund (for want of a better word) will be on a sliding scale, with those who don't need help with paying their bills (e.g. most PB posters, including me) not getting a penny. That's also why Reeves' assertion that the total raised will be equivalent to £100 per household is accurate.
I mean, you've basically agreed that they've been dishonest. "carefully couched"???
Well, it's not my fault if people can't read or if the press don't report properly. Here's the actual wording from the Labour Party website on the press release that first announced the policy; it doesn't look dishonest to me:
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
They're intending for people to hear "you'll get £600".
Not their fault if people ignore the words "up to", which are always included.
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
Now here is labour's problem in one comment
Keir Starmer has committed to resign if he gets a FPN and demands everyone in Labour tells the truth
Spinning is misleading the public and below Starmer's bar he has set labour
Oh? I am not a Labour fan, but I am sure the words "up to" were used. I am not expecting to be in receipt of anything. I thought it looked pretty straightforward to me?
Comments
Of course, the project was a longstanding one, with the original idea coming from George Down during WWII, and the Crossrail name being nearly as old as I am.
However given the mess Crossrail became, I'm surprised people actually want to 'own' the project...
@ElizaEdNews
The PM just accidentally bowled over a kid while playing soccer in Tassie.
@9NewsAUS
https://twitter.com/ElizaEdNews/status/1526820912745844736
Data from the flight recorder recovered from the Boeing 737 showed that human inputs to the controls forced it to plummet into a mountainside near the city of Wuzhou, according to members of the US side of the investigation. The two “black box” recorders from the aircraft, which were both damaged, were sent by China to Washington for US experts to recover the data.
The American account, reported by The Wall Street Journal, follows weeks of secrecy from Chinese officials and appears to confirm the leading theory of experts. This holds that only human action such as murder-suicide by a pilot could explain the near-vertical trajectory of the aircraft.
“The plane did what it was told to do by someone in the cockpit,” a person familiar with the initial assessment by experts on the US National Transportation Safety Board told the Journal. Attention has focused on a pilot, although it remains possible that another person entered the flight deck and took over the controls.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-airliner-brought-down-from-cockpit-drnsl5f3f
The redwall seats voted Tory in 2019 to get Brexit done, not just beat Corbyn
Labour did better in central London than the Midlands
Last 5 polls before local elections, Labour in 40s in all. All 7 polls since local elections, Labour not once in 40s.
Last 5 polls before local elections, Tories 34, 33, 35, 35, 35, since local elections, 35, 34, 34, 33, 33, 34, 35.
The other measurement, Lab Lib green added together, not shrunk at all since locals, despite lower Lab scores, Lib clearly up and green too.
Conclusion. Gap closing, but not thanks to Tories gaining.
Usual Caveats. There is consistent trend, Tories not above 35, labour 4 or 5 clear, but Vagaries of samples could easily throw up misleading headlines showing nothing between the main parties. And once a month Tories always get a bonus of Opinium, Kantor (and occasional yougov joins in) always showing smallest leads, like several buses coming at once, so it depends which part of the month, the Labour bit or Tory bit you look at it. Also for trends we need to look at similar movement from the one poster polls showing up in other posters polls.
In terms of political narrative, my hunch is Torys need a lead soon as this month is their opportunity, as they are taking a lot of negative flak in media last week or so, this may not show immediately in polling (some say it takes couple of weeks).
That couple of weeks to impact polls suggestion is interesting, has it ever been proved? It feels like it is happening, but makes no sense why it’s not quicker? The hammering of Starmer before locals didn’t seem to show in his ratings at first, but is beginning to now, two weeks later?
So as we move into June the polls will start to show Tories drifting further behind is my call. Possibly beginning of a 92-97 polling death spiral. That’s my analysis and prediction.
From Dunlop, 'Speculative Fiction as Postcolonial Critique' in 'David Mitchell: Critical Essays'.
The bigger problem for Truss maybe she is looking so tired yesterday, especially this morning, is Boris putting too much on her. FO in the war crisis, does she need the NIP work as well? Why not Brandon Lewis to help with that? 😕
Now he’s been to the barbers for his spring cut, my dad looks a bit like Brandon Lewis today 💇🏻♂️
The voting evidence refutes it. The redwall seats voted for Corbyn in 2017 remember, they only voted for Boris and the Tories in 2019 to get Brexit done.
The voting evidence again confirmed it in the local elections this month with a far bigger swing against the Tories in Remain voting areas of London and the Home counties than in Leave areas of the redwall
Perhaps the voters have a masochistic streak in them?
Yet in Remain areas of London and the South the Tories lost councils like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Woking, Tunbridge Wells, Wokingham, West Oxfordshire etc (also losing wealthy Theydon Bois and Ingatestone in Essex to the LDs) now Starmer has replaced Corbyn and is less of a threat to wealth Remainers
@AaronBastani
Speaking to a young guy after an event recently I was struck by what he said “Imagine with Covid, inflation & Russia we were still arguing over Brexit? It still wouldn’t be solved today. Only one party offered a conclusion in 2019”.
The only answer is that is absolutely right.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1524465356567371778
My argument would be, why did the Tories want to swallow ukip, if ukip could hurt labour too in these seats? My theory creates a home for leavers who can’t bring themselves to vote for Tories next time, from switching straight to Starmer’s Labour. It siphons off enough votes to stop labour getting over the line.
A bit like standing a “literal democrat” at top of the ballot paper, only a proper candidate focusing on local Labour voters.
Okay, if I said anti Starmer local Labour candidates, and left the “protect Brexit” bit off the ballot paper, do you see my point now how it would help Tories? A “anti Starmer, pro Wakefield labour” candidate in this by election would probably hand the win to the Conservative would it not? That’s why I have bet so heavily on Tory win, as this I think will happen.
But I’m predicting this parliaments Tory death spiral to begin in exactly two weeks time. 😈
What does that trend tell you?
I see he's taken the tweet down, so apparently has a sliver more shame than some posters here.
If I may make a suggestion (as I have said so many times before), perhaps you could try speaking less in absolutes, as though your opinion is fact, and then people might take your perspective a little more seriously?
Corbyn is a magnificent example of someone that should have roughly 0% support. A poll suggesting that Corbyn would be a good PM should have zero support.
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1526871355815337987
The first ever footage of what is claimed by the Ukrainian side to be UK-supplied Brimstone missiles in use against Russian forces in the East.
Two tanks are struck in very rapid succession- it is said this is deep behind the front lines.
Actually a very cost effective stand off weapon - we've signed some deal to re-equip some of Poland's old AFVs with it.
Sadist - "no"
Commuting and petrol prices have gone up a lot and the government wants us to go back to the office and be even poorer. They can fuck right off.
The optics are terrible for the government and expect them to become unpopular.
*Not me, yes I’m as surprised as you.
The fault, as I am sure the tourists would agree, lays with management for allowing this to fester.
Do you seriously think the turnout was 100%.
He had 64.5% of the vote on a 70% turnout. Hence 45% of the full electorate voted for him.
It is hard to argue with Dan Hodges on this
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
'Is there anyone in No.10, No.11, the wider Government, the wider Conservative party, the country, the continent, the globe, any sentient being this side of the Milky Way, who can explain the current Tory strategy on an Energy Windfall Tax...'
I really cannot understand the conservative party in all of this, but then I cannot understand why Starmer and labour are not out of sight in the polls
As an aside I have not commented on 'beergate' for quite a while but it interesting that Durham police indicate 20 questionnaires are being sent out
Starmer originally said there were 6, then 15 and now it looks like 20
Why does he prevaricate rather than be upfront
Also Rachel Reeves has just admitted in the house of commons that labour's windfall tax would raise about £100 per household, not the £200 or even £600 quoted by labour mps
And you wonder why he public says a plague on all your houses
Well I'm shocked.
It really is a plague on all their houses. Labour promised £600 of our bills through their windfall tax. It is nothing of the sort. It just gets seen for what it is. cheap politics.
Ukraine do seem to be under a lot of pressure in the Severodonetsk salient despite all the weapons, though.
Have you got any comment on this one?
The New York Times have run a story suggesting the Tory party have taken more iffy rubles.
The New York Times (NYT) said it had reviewed documents linked to the donation, which was recorded as £450,000 by the party, and said it originated in a Russian account of Sir Ehud’s father-in-law, Sergei Kopytov. The NYT said Barclays bank, in an alert sent to the National Crime Agency in 2021, identified with “considerable certainty” Mr Kopytov to have been the “true source of the donation”.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-17/labour-calls-for-tory-probe-over-donation-with-possible-links-to-putin-associate
No good Conservative should support a windfall tax, they are the ultimate virtual signal tax.
Which is why I expect this government to announce one soon.
However, that is deflecting from my post which questions the veracity of not only Starmers report on beergate, but labours position on the windfall tax providing £200 and £600 for some, which Rachel Reeves clearly has had to clarify in the HOC this afternoon
Which is, essentially, all they have been saying since December 2019.
Spokesperson after spokesperson said £200 of energy bills and up to £600 and on occasions I listened to them say £600 off bills
“Labour will stand up for the millions of families across the country, with a package that won’t just help the average household with around £200 off bills, but also targeted and focused support for those who need it most – including low earners, pensioners and the squeezed middle – with up to £600 in total off their bills.”
Sometimes do feel that you've just fallen from the turnip truck!
Most everyone would expect £200 towards their energy bill
I agree they're spinning it a bit, in stark contrast to Boris's Tories who would never dream of putting a gloss on something to make it sound better than it is.
If this was a business, you'd have the one pager with a 1 paragraph "elevator pitch" for the policy, a list of key objections with specific responses, 5 or so key benefit talking points that cover off the main features. Anything you don't have on the crib sheet you respond with "I will have to refer you to the [person responsible] for that detail, but [reiterate the benefit for the area relevant to the question].
Everyone works from the crib sheet. Noone gets drawn on nuances or explanations.
Instead, we get half a dozen MPs with their own interpretations and angles, contradictions, half explanations.
Keir Starmer has committed to resign if he gets a FPN and demands everyone in Labour tells the truth
Spinning is misleading the public and below Starmer's bar he has set labour
And, yeah, I'm not saying they're any worse than the other side. As usual, they're all pretty much the same.
Instead we’re about to get an auction between the two main parties.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/cure-for-the-blues-the-tories-mid-term-plight-in-perspective
This is a good, final, point:
"Ted Heath and Jim Callaghan lost elections after struggling to manage the fallout from the oil shocks of the early and late 1970s. There are many differences between then and now. But the problems of energy and prices could prove to be just as unmanageable, and just as politically devastating for the government. If so, its current blues could prove less mid-term than terminal."