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Starmer’s approval rating no change at -2% – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,746
    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    Is that you Gerhard Schroder?

    More seriously, this is a load of tosh. Ultimately, it's hard to be the invader. If your military successes so far consist of blowing through a serious chunk of your front line forces, losing the flagship of your fleet, persuading your neighbours to join NATO, and imposing crippling sanctions on your economy... well, at some point it becomes too much to sustain.

    The Russians could, I suppose, order a general mobilisation. But sending ever less well prepared troops with more and more outdated equipment might not end well.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    96 year old woman dies of natural causes, hotly tipped front runner eldest son succeeds? Hold the front page.
    But they’ll change the rules at the last minute, let the front runners overtake, and we’ll somehow finish with Andrew and Harry first and second in line.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    For a second, I read that as the reggae Commonwealth.
    BTW, I have no idea what “regnal” means. I just saw it on a website and thought it looked cool
    It's a bit like a Singapore grip.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Leon said:

    ...

    God bless ‘er. We got lucky

    And that, right there, is the core of the problem.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,329
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    No, I would say Oz would be one of the last to leave, same with Canada and New Zealand. The non white British origin majority would go well before white majority of British Isles origin Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Those are the type of ex British Empire countries which have already become Republics.

    Australia of course voted 55% to keep the monarchy in 1999
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html
    I suspect there will be a bit of a run on the republic referendums when HM passes. If not then, when? There has long been a suspicion (correctly IMHO) that a lot of places have held off for the natural transition to self determination that ends when the Queen dies.

    In honest fact I suspect after 10 years of Charles the only one that will still be mulling it over will be Canada because they really don’t seem to give a fig about the whole arrangement and are generally OK with it. That said, pressure for change breeds pressure. I suspect there will be a domino effect. None of that will actually be Charles fault, nor is it really something to attribute fault to, it’s just the next page in history. In time, I suspect the UK will eventually abolish the monarchy, but I would say it’s got a good 100 years left to run at least.
    20 of the Commonwealth realms became republics or got their own heads of state in the reign of the Queen or her father, only 16 are left. So the majority of Commonwealth nations got their own heads of state well before Charles becomes King.

    Canada would be extremely unlikely to go as it needs approval under the constitution by every single Canadian province.

    The UK will always have a monarchy, it is part of our culture, the only time we were a republic under Cromwell and his son and the Rump Parliament we swiftly returned to a more constitutional monarchy under Charles IInd after just 11 years as it was such a disaster
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239

    kinabalu said:

    PB has gone ballistic! I usually read, assess and mentally log every comment, making suitable adjustments (if needed) to the standings of each poster on the key metrics of objectivity, judgement and ethics, but I'm going to have to let it go here. All get a pass.

    Do you have any idea how pompous you are?
    Lighten up! Our Kinabalu is part of PB's rich tapestry.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,932

    A car has crashed into the front garden of the Prime Minister’s £1.3 million London townhouse.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/09/car-ploughs-front-garden-boris-johnsons-13m-london-townhouse/ (£££)

    That is the one in Camberwell.

    Was it worth £1.3 million before or after the car crashed into it? And what is it with the right-wing press and house prices?
    Incidentally, for those of you who don't know South London well, this is just how we drive down here, OK?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,663
    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    Is that you Gerhard Schroder?

    More seriously, this is a load of tosh. Ultimately, it's hard to be the invader. If your military successes so far consist of blowing through a serious chunk of your front line forces, losing the flagship of your fleet, persuading your neighbours to join NATO, and imposing crippling sanctions on your economy... well, at some point it becomes too much to sustain.

    The Russians could, I suppose, order a general mobilisation. But sending ever less well prepared troops with more and more outdated equipment might not end well.

    You know it, I know it, and Russia know it. Why think we get a better deal after five years that may feature Trump, an EU split, and failed advances into ethnic Russian territory?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,691

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    No. Because that’s bollocks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    I’m happy to offer a wager on that
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,068
    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,029

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    Yes, and I think it's bollocks.

    William is just as popular and we will hold out for him. Charles will be ok in the interim.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,947

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew he favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    I think the general consensus is pretty damn unimpeachable constitutional monarch, not the best at family matters. She relied on the D of E heavily for the latter, reportedly. And he didn’t always do a decent job of it either.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    I’m happy to offer a wager on that
    I reckon after 24 months of King Charles III we will have polls wanting to be a republic.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,333
    Having been to Spice Lounge several times in Durham, I never would have thought it'd potentially end up bringing down the Leader of the Labour party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,329
    edited May 2022

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    Even Charles now has a net favourable rating of +27%, William of +67%, almost the same as the Queen's +71%.

    The British monarchy has with the exception of the Protectorate lasted for a 1000 years in England, Scotland and then the UK with monarchs coming and going. The Queen has been a good one but her loss after a long reign will be no different to Victoria's after a long 64 year reign and then the Prince of Wales proved a better than expected monarch as Edward VIIth for his relatively short 9 year reign
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/02/public-opinion-prince-charles-improves-latest-roya
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew he favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    I think the general consensus is pretty damn unimpeachable constitutional monarch, not the best at family matters. She relied on the D of E heavily for the latter, reportedly. And he didn’t always do a decent job of it either.
    It's not unimpeachable. Remember her disgraceful intervention in the indyref?

    Just imagine if she had intervened the other way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    I’m happy to offer a wager on that
    I reckon after 24 months of King Charles III we will have polls wanting to be a republic.
    £20 bet that isn’t the case?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    For a second, I read that as the reggae Commonwealth.
    BTW, I have no idea what “regnal” means. I just saw it on a website and thought it looked cool
    It's a bit like a Singapore grip.
    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    I’m happy to offer a wager on that
    I reckon after 24 months of King Charles III we will have polls wanting to be a republic.
    Polls in favour of the UK becoming a Republic? No chance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    I’m happy to offer a wager on that
    I reckon after 24 months of King Charles III we will have polls wanting to be a republic.
    £20 bet that isn’t the case?
    Sure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    I’m happy to offer a wager on that
    I reckon after 24 months of King Charles III we will have polls wanting to be a republic.
    £20 bet that isn’t the case?
    Sure.
    Cool. Quite an easy one to frame

    I’m happy to take the extreme position

    “Within 24 months of the Coronation of Prince Charles as king, there will not be a single poll showing majority support for a republic in the UK”

    Feel free to amend the terms, you do this more than me
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,975
    Sandpit said:

    Russian finance minister: GDP could fall 12% this year, due to sanctions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/09/ftse-100-markets-live-news-russia-energy-mccolls/

    Not enough I have to say. I presume that is without an oil embargo and much of a move on gas supplies? Even if it takes a few years for the economic effects to be completely felt the important thing is for the elite to find themselves staring into the abyss.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    No one knows what sort of judgement she has. She has spent her reign saying nothing of any significance whatsoever.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,329
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    She has been working as Head of State for 70 years you ignorant republican!
    It's always struck me as interesting that republicans think the best way to advance their arguments is to be extremely rude about one of the most widely respected and admired people on the planet.

    It might explain why they never get anywhere, I suppose.
    TSE is a pro austerity, anti Brexit, anti monarchy, liberal elitist. No surprise he does not really care what the masses think!
    All good proper conservatives are pro austerity, does sound money mean nothing to you?

    The problem with socialists like you is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
    No, classical liberalism is pro austerity more than traditional conservatism. Hence you have now found your natural home as a Liberal Democrat voting Orange Book LD. Support for the monarchy and traditional values is far more a cornerstone of traditional conservatism in this country than slashing spending as Boris has proved.

    I am not a socialist, I support tax cuts and oppose nationalisation of industry and unchecked union power but I am not a spending slasher either.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    edited May 2022


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256
    edited May 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Russian finance minister: GDP could fall 12% this year, due to sanctions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/09/ftse-100-markets-live-news-russia-energy-mccolls/

    Not enough I have to say. I presume that is without an oil embargo and much of a move on gas supplies? Even if it takes a few years for the economic effects to be completely felt the important thing is for the elite to find themselves staring into the abyss.
    They made bank over the spring, as the Germans kept the oil and gas flowing at high prices. Next autumn is key, need to make sure there’s no European demand for Russian O&G exports - which will screw up their production as the storage gets full.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,238


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    They didn’t cover that in series 1 of The Crown.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    She has been working as Head of State for 70 years you ignorant republican!
    It's always struck me as interesting that republicans think the best way to advance their arguments is to be extremely rude about one of the most widely respected and admired people on the planet.

    It might explain why they never get anywhere, I suppose.
    TSE is a pro austerity, anti Brexit, anti monarchy, liberal elitist. No surprise he does not really care what the masses think!
    All good proper conservatives are pro austerity, does sound money mean nothing to you?

    The problem with socialists like you is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
    No, classical liberalism is pro austerity more than traditional conservativism. Hence you have now found your natural home as a Liberal Democrat voting Orange Book LD. Support for the monarchy and established church is far more a cornerstone of traditional conservativism than slashing spending as Boris has proved.

    I am not a socialist, I support tax cuts and oppose nationalisation but I am not a spending slasher either.
    Mrs Thatcher is a classic liberal?

    You are supporting a government that has raised taxes to their highest level since the war and want me to list all the nationalism Boris Johnson has undertaken?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,425
    I am on way back north, my meeting in the Bucks countryside being over (very close to Chequers as it happens), having driven down this morning. I am having the largest strongest coffee I can stomach and find that Sir Keir has laid down the gauntlet. Good for him!

    Those Covid lockdown rules are having a hell of an after-life.

    I assume nothing else has happened - like Putin declaring war on us or anything.

    I am currently listening to Mary Beard read her book "Twelve Caesars". I thought it would tell me about the Roman Emperors and what they did. But no. It's all about how they've been portrayed in art. At best it could have amounted to a 30 minute podcast. Instead of which it is endless chapter after endless chapter saying that

    1. Suetonius made up a lot of what he wrote.
    2. No-one really knows what Julius Caesar or others looked like.
    3. Artists made it up.
    4. Aristocrats liked having busts of them in their house.
    5. Er .... that's it.

    In TWELVE chapters. I don't think I've ever listened to anything so long and learned so little. In fact most of the time a I have no idea what she is talking about - it's like having a bath of warm words with occasional bubbles of names I recognise - Titian, Mantua, Charles 1st, Caligula etc.

    My admiration for my daughter who did a classics degree has increased significantly if this is what her lectures were like.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,746

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    I realise that Atos is generally useless (and that's being kind), but I think even they might accept that a 96 year old might be unable to go out to work every day.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    We go back a long way, is the thing. It's a mathematical certainty that [peasant] ancestors of mine fought under twats like Edward III and Harry V at Crecy and Agincourt, and no doubt thought them twats, but you get used to the feeling of abject submissiveness, over the centuries.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    tlg86 said:


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    They didn’t cover that in series 1 of The Crown.
    I know, I've told Peter Morgan of my displeasure.

    I hope Netflix do a series on Bertrand Dawson, that would be box office.

    The man who murdered the King/ our Queen's grandfather, and he ended up with a Viscountcy for that, and then he tried to nobble Baldwin during the abdication crisis, the sitting PM!
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,679

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
    That's interesting. It has certainly become a commonplace. IIRC there was a whole hoo-ha when the German Ambassador raised the issue of British identity being formed by war-generation parents imprinting "standing alone" ideas on their boomer children. I don't think anyone denies the reality of that identity. And then it is exaggerated for effect by both sides (from Dad's Army references in red top headlines to earnest letters pages in the Guardian.)

    And we will see a load of it amplified by the passing of HMQ.

    If that is sneering remoanerism, fair enough.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,136
    Sandpit said:

    Russian finance minister: GDP could fall 12% this year, due to sanctions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/09/ftse-100-markets-live-news-russia-energy-mccolls/

    Just 12%?

    I think we might be looking at the musings of a wide eyed optimist here.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,234


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    ‘might start to fathom her hold over Edward’

    Look, no hands!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    No one knows what sort of judgement she has. She has spent her reign saying nothing of any significance whatsoever.
    That is the point of a constitutional monarchy. Yet you also complain about Prince Chas HAVING opinions. An ungallant PB-er might conclude that you’re just quite dim
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,329
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    She has been working as Head of State for 70 years you ignorant republican!
    It's always struck me as interesting that republicans think the best way to advance their arguments is to be extremely rude about one of the most widely respected and admired people on the planet.

    It might explain why they never get anywhere, I suppose.
    TSE is a pro austerity, anti Brexit, anti monarchy, liberal elitist. No surprise he does not really care what the masses think!
    All good proper conservatives are pro austerity, does sound money mean nothing to you?

    The problem with socialists like you is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
    No, classical liberalism is pro austerity more than traditional conservativism. Hence you have now found your natural home as a Liberal Democrat voting Orange Book LD. Support for the monarchy and established church is far more a cornerstone of traditional conservativism than slashing spending as Boris has proved.

    I am not a socialist, I support tax cuts and oppose nationalisation but I am not a spending slasher either.
    Mrs Thatcher is a classic liberal?

    You are supporting a government that has raised taxes to their highest level since the war and want me to list all the nationalism Boris Johnson has undertaken?
    Thatcher arguably had more in common on economics with classical Liberal PMs like Gladstone than she did with traditional Tory PMs like Disraeli and Macmillan and Baldwin and Salisbury.

    However even Thatcher backed keeping the monarchy despite occasional disagreements over South Africa for example with the Queen.

    Nationalism is often part of Tory history, as it was under Disraeli, Salisbury and even Thatcher and with figures from Joseph Chamberlain to Enoch Powell as well as Boris.

    Nationalisation of industry is not and Boris has not done so, albeit Macmillan and Heath for example accepted the post war consensus of state influence in industry after the Attlee Labour government's nationalisations.

    Johnson and Sunak have cut NI for those earning under £35k, have proposed a cut in income tax and have cut the amount people have to pay in social care costs too
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?
    So it is exactly like royalty then... it is about bing on top and f**king everyone underneath them ... ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,345
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    Even Charles now has a net favourable rating of +27%, William of +67%, almost the same as the Queen's +71%.

    The British monarchy has with the exception of the Protectorate lasted for a 1000 years in England, Scotland and then the UK with monarchs coming and going. The Queen has been a good one but her loss after a long reign will be no different to Victoria's after a long 64 year reign and then the Prince of Wales proved a better than expected monarch as Edward VIIth for his relatively short 9 year reign
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/02/public-opinion-prince-charles-improves-latest-roya
    There’s a strong argument when Liz, sadly, moves on that they should skip a generation to help make the monarchy more relevant to diverse, dynamic, modern Britain.

    King William.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,738
    edited May 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    I am on way back north, my meeting in the Bucks countryside being over (very close to Chequers as it happens), having driven down this morning. I am having the largest strongest coffee I can stomach and find that Sir Keir has laid down the gauntlet. Good for him!

    Those Covid lockdown rules are having a hell of an after-life.

    I assume nothing else has happened - like Putin declaring war on us or anything.

    I am currently listening to Mary Beard read her book "Twelve Caesars". I thought it would tell me about the Roman Emperors and what they did. But no. It's all about how they've been portrayed in art. At best it could have amounted to a 30 minute podcast. Instead of which it is endless chapter after endless chapter saying that

    1. Suetonius made up a lot of what he wrote.
    2. No-one really knows what Julius Caesar or others looked like.
    3. Artists made it up.
    4. Aristocrats liked having busts of them in their house.
    5. Er .... that's it.

    In TWELVE chapters. I don't think I've ever listened to anything so long and learned so little. In fact most of the time a I have no idea what she is talking about - it's like having a bath of warm words with occasional bubbles of names I recognise - Titian, Mantua, Charles 1st, Caligula etc.

    My admiration for my daughter who did a classics degree has increased significantly if this is what her lectures were like.

    On the other hand, the other weekend we went to a local talk by a professor from Leicester on Pompeii's domestic life, and it was brilliant, even for a seven-year old.

    And at uni, I had a materials lecturer - a subject I found, and find, fascinating - who would talk in a dull monotone and make me want to do *anything* other than attend lectures.

    I'm currently reading a Stephen fry book, the third part of his memoirs. And it is the most turgidly overwritten piece of **** I've read in a long time. But if I was listening to him speak it, it might well be fascinating ....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,322
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
    That's interesting. It has certainly become a commonplace. IIRC there was a whole hoo-ha when the German Ambassador raised the issue of British identity being formed by war-generation parents imprinting "standing alone" ideas on their boomer children. I don't think anyone denies the reality of that identity. And then it is exaggerated for effect by both sides (from Dad's Army references in red top headlines to earnest letters pages in the Guardian.)

    And we will see a load of it amplified by the passing of HMQ.

    If that is sneering remoanerism, fair enough.
    I’ve seen plenty of voxpops of people evidently born well after 1945 saying “well we survived the blitz so we’ll get through this”.

    I doubt they truly believe they were alive during the Blitz. But they speak to it with an ownership that claims the blitz spirit as some kind of inheritance. The same as those Russians saying today that “we beat the Nazis in 1943 so we’ll beat those Ukrainian Nazis in 2022”.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Shudder to think what the Duke & Dutchess meant when ordering a "Singapore Sling"?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,239

    Just catching up on the rapidly moving goalposts of currygate. If I've got this right, the Mail/Sun and their fans on here have moved the goalposts off the pitch:

    1. Starmer must resign if he gets an FPN.
    2. Okay, he's said he will. But that's not good enough. He must resign even if he doesn't get an FPN if there's even a hint of wrongdoing but no sanction.
    3. And if neither 1. or 2. apply, Starmer should resign because that proves that he's nobbled the Durham Police.
    4. Actually, forget 1-3; Starmer should resign anyway because he's a dull, boring metropolitan lawyer who leads the evil Labour Party.

    Meanwhile, Wooton in the Mail is comparing Starmer to Richard Nixon. FFS.

    The Tory fans must be worried about something I reckon - quite hysterical.

    I don't think it's hysterical - it's just that they see a possible future of Starmer getting no FPN sanction and enjoying the run up to the next GE holding the moral high ground. I think their fears are well-grounded because that is exactly what is going to happen - and will be exacerbated when Johnson gets a further three or four FPNs!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,321
    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    The sycophantic tripe that will go on for weeks will indeed be quite something. Thank God for streaming services!

    I am not too bothered either way if Britain is a monarchy or a republic. It's a lottery with these inbred aristocrats, but fortunately they seem to be more bothered over trivia like titles and precedence than anything that actually matters.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    Sometimes attributed to his striking resemblance to her very close friend Lord Porchester
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,425


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Sex may have been part of it. But a likely just as - if not more important - part of it was that she provided him with the unconditional love and support he did not get from his mother (or father).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,746
    Sandpit said:

    Russian finance minister: GDP could fall 12% this year, due to sanctions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/09/ftse-100-markets-live-news-russia-energy-mccolls/

    It is worth remembering that Russia's economy is currently benefitting from the high prices for oil, coal and natural gas. Simply: the Chinese, Indians, and a host of others have been very happy to buy from them, and the world market price of commodities has risen sharply.

    I mention this, because it tells you how shafted the rest of the Russian economy is, that - in a world where energy prices are up 50% - the economy has shrunk more than a tenth.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    Sandpit said:

    Russian finance minister: GDP could fall 12% this year, due to sanctions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/09/ftse-100-markets-live-news-russia-energy-mccolls/

    Thoughts and prayers for the aide who had to tell news to Putin.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    Former top manager of Lukoil and billionaire Alexander Subbotin has died after an anti-hangover session with a shaman. He experienced heart pain after using toad poison. The shaman didn’t call an ambulance but dripped Corvalol and put the billionaire to sleep in his basement.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1523481012281364480?s=20&t=W0p5r9sg0FlQkKUFbjiOgg
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    IshmaelZ said:

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    If one of you has reached State Pension age

    If only one of you has reached State Pension age, you and your partner can still claim Universal Credit as a couple.

    Your Universal Credit claim will stop when you both reach State Pension age.

    https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/eligibility

    I bet you don't know what your housekeeper pays for your milk, either.

    But brave of you to go mano a mano with a 5' 3" 96 y.o. woman.
    If she's 5' 3" I am 6' 5"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,746

    IshmaelZ said:

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    If one of you has reached State Pension age

    If only one of you has reached State Pension age, you and your partner can still claim Universal Credit as a couple.

    Your Universal Credit claim will stop when you both reach State Pension age.

    https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/eligibility

    I bet you don't know what your housekeeper pays for your milk, either.

    But brave of you to go mano a mano with a 5' 3" 96 y.o. woman.
    If she doesn't want to get criticised she should get off the throne.

    My housekeeper? Bah, I've never had a housekeeper, I did have an au pair many years ago, which was a disappointment.
    Is that why you got divorced?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256

    Sandpit said:

    Russian finance minister: GDP could fall 12% this year, due to sanctions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/09/ftse-100-markets-live-news-russia-energy-mccolls/

    Thoughts and prayers for the aide who had to tell news to Putin.
    That was the optimistic version, with the high oil prices and European demand factored in.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,345

    Just catching up on the rapidly moving goalposts of currygate. If I've got this right, the Mail/Sun and their fans on here have moved the goalposts off the pitch:

    1. Starmer must resign if he gets an FPN.
    2. Okay, he's said he will. But that's not good enough. He must resign even if he doesn't get an FPN if there's even a hint of wrongdoing but no sanction.
    3. And if neither 1. or 2. apply, Starmer should resign because that proves that he's nobbled the Durham Police.
    4. Actually, forget 1-3; Starmer should resign anyway because he's a dull, boring metropolitan lawyer who leads the evil Labour Party.

    Meanwhile, Wooton in the Mail is comparing Starmer to Richard Nixon. FFS.

    The Tory fans must be worried about something I reckon - quite hysterical.

    I suspect it will be 2 as that was pretty much where Cummings ended up. Hence his offer.

    Should he go ? By his own logic yes.

    I doubt he will, I doubt big dog will.

    Meanwhile while the media and political classes obsess over this the cost of living crisis and the unfolding catastropic lockdown in China continues.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The royal family are the country's biggest benefit scroungers.

    If the Queen was on universal credit she'd get sanctioned for not going to work.

    If one of you has reached State Pension age

    If only one of you has reached State Pension age, you and your partner can still claim Universal Credit as a couple.

    Your Universal Credit claim will stop when you both reach State Pension age.

    https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/eligibility

    I bet you don't know what your housekeeper pays for your milk, either.

    But brave of you to go mano a mano with a 5' 3" 96 y.o. woman.
    If she doesn't want to get criticised she should get off the throne.

    My housekeeper? Bah, I've never had a housekeeper, I did have an au pair many years ago, which was a disappointment.
    Is that why you got divorced?
    Yes and no.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,329
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    Even Charles now has a net favourable rating of +27%, William of +67%, almost the same as the Queen's +71%.

    The British monarchy has with the exception of the Protectorate lasted for a 1000 years in England, Scotland and then the UK with monarchs coming and going. The Queen has been a good one but her loss after a long reign will be no different to Victoria's after a long 64 year reign and then the Prince of Wales proved a better than expected monarch as Edward VIIth for his relatively short 9 year reign
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/02/public-opinion-prince-charles-improves-latest-roya
    There’s a strong argument when Liz, sadly, moves on that they should skip a generation to help make the monarchy more relevant to diverse, dynamic, modern Britain.

    King William.
    Charles deserves his chance, he will have a relatively short reign anyway compared to his mother and then William will reign
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,935

    kinabalu said:

    PB has gone ballistic! I usually read, assess and mentally log every comment, making suitable adjustments (if needed) to the standings of each poster on the key metrics of objectivity, judgement and ethics, but I'm going to have to let it go here. All get a pass.

    Do you have any idea how pompous you are?
    I'm not on this thread. Will revert soonest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    96 year old woman dies of natural causes, hotly tipped front runner eldest son succeeds? Hold the front page.
    I mean, a wesbite managed to make 'Crown Prince will succeed Queen' a news story

    Prince Charles is ready to becoming king whenever his mother, Queen Elizabeth II, decides to step down from the throne.

    “Charles will serve as king with Duchess Camilla by his side,” a source exclusively says in the new issue of Us Weekly. “This is something he’s dreamed about his entire life — he sees it as his birthright, and Her Majesty would find it extremely difficult to deprive him of that.”


    https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/inside-prince-charles-plans-if-queen-elizabeth-steps-down/
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,947
    edited May 2022

    Just catching up on the rapidly moving goalposts of currygate. If I've got this right, the Mail/Sun and their fans on here have moved the goalposts off the pitch:

    1. Starmer must resign if he gets an FPN.
    2. Okay, he's said he will. But that's not good enough. He must resign even if he doesn't get an FPN if there's even a hint of wrongdoing but no sanction.
    3. And if neither 1. or 2. apply, Starmer should resign because that proves that he's nobbled the Durham Police.
    4. Actually, forget 1-3; Starmer should resign anyway because he's a dull, boring metropolitan lawyer who leads the evil Labour Party.

    Meanwhile, Wooton in the Mail is comparing Starmer to Richard Nixon. FFS.

    The Tory fans must be worried about something I reckon - quite hysterical.

    Circumstance has essentially given us a pivotal turning point on the road to the next election, which revolves around whether SKS gets a FPN or not.

    The consequences of FPN or no FPN will cause a huge shift. I find it hard at this stage to exactly say how. I could see how a SKS exit could both help and hinder Labour election chances, ditto the other way round. And the same goes for no FPN. All I can safely say is that either way, there’ll probably be some sizeable shifts in both parties election chances over the next few months.

    If you were forcing me to give an view, I’d say Labour will come out of it with the better standing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    Recently I was promoted and it took me six months to update my profile on the corporate intranet.....

    Congratulations are in order for sex offender and now ex-MP Imran Ahmad Khan, whose early retirement has allowed him to get round to updating his Linkedin profile. His fellow users were notified today with news of his latest job:

    Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds, the procedural title given to MPs quitting the Commons. An exciting opportunity with room for professional growth and development…


    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/imran-ahmad-khans-exciting-new-job/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
    That's interesting. It has certainly become a commonplace. IIRC there was a whole hoo-ha when the German Ambassador raised the issue of British identity being formed by war-generation parents imprinting "standing alone" ideas on their boomer children. I don't think anyone denies the reality of that identity. And then it is exaggerated for effect by both sides (from Dad's Army references in red top headlines to earnest letters pages in the Guardian.)

    And we will see a load of it amplified by the passing of HMQ.

    If that is sneering remoanerism, fair enough.
    Did His Excellency also mention those tired old "not murdering seven-figure numbers of Jews" memes?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,068
    Cyclefree said:


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Sex may have been part of it. But a likely just as - if not more important - part of it was that she provided him with the unconditional love and support he did not get from his mother (or father).
    The rumour seems very mean. Also, I think in photographs she looks very striking, and quite beautiful. We're constantly told how ugly she was, but if she was that bad, one wonders how she got all the opportunities to prove her vulvic dexterity in the first place.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,321
    Cyclefree said:


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Sex may have been part of it. But a likely just as - if not more important - part of it was that she provided him with the unconditional love and support he did not get from his mother (or father).
    Indeed, if you ever wonder why Meghan and Harry are as they are, consider the same toxic parenting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    Foxy said:

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    The sycophantic tripe that will go on for weeks will indeed be quite something. Thank God for streaming services!

    I think most people will tune out much of the coverage after a couple of days, except for the day of the funeral, so it won't be that burdensome even though for those who want to there will be wall to wall stuff.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,136

    A car has crashed into the front garden of the Prime Minister’s £1.3 million London townhouse.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/09/car-ploughs-front-garden-boris-johnsons-13m-london-townhouse/ (£££)

    That is the one in Camberwell.

    Johnson has always been known for his used economy motors.

    Are we sure a ten year old Astra embedded in his hedge isn't just a little casual late night parking by the Big Dog?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,124
    IshmaelZ said:

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    Sometimes attributed to his striking resemblance to her very close friend Lord Porchester
    Thanks, I googled him and I got this.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,810
    TimS said:

    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
    That's interesting. It has certainly become a commonplace. IIRC there was a whole hoo-ha when the German Ambassador raised the issue of British identity being formed by war-generation parents imprinting "standing alone" ideas on their boomer children. I don't think anyone denies the reality of that identity. And then it is exaggerated for effect by both sides (from Dad's Army references in red top headlines to earnest letters pages in the Guardian.)

    And we will see a load of it amplified by the passing of HMQ.

    If that is sneering remoanerism, fair enough.
    I’ve seen plenty of voxpops of people evidently born well after 1945 saying “well we survived the blitz so we’ll get through this”.

    I doubt they truly believe they were alive during the Blitz. But they speak to it with an ownership that claims the blitz spirit as some kind of inheritance. The same as those Russians saying today that “we beat the Nazis in 1943 so we’ll beat those Ukrainian Nazis in 2022”.
    Well, my earliest memories are from about 1943 and what sticks in my mind is parental worry. Worry about what might happen, especially during the nightly bombing raids, worry about food, worry, for my mother, about running her business, and shortages.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,333
    Not exactly an ardent monarchist, but republicans need to think about the following question: which political party - who could conceivably be in government in the next 10-15 years - is going to have a referendum on whether to scrap the monarchy?
    Tories - no chance
    Labour - even if whoever is Labour leader is sympathetic to a republic, they won't touch it out of fear pissing of a chunk of the electorate they need to win.
    Lib Dems & other parties who might be in coalition or have C&S with Tories/Labour - not going to be a priority for negotiations, and will instead focus on getting PR, re-joining the SM, legalising cannabis etc... from one of the major parties.
    It's not going to happen.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,985

    Recently I was promoted and it took me six months to update my profile on the corporate intranet.....

    Congratulations are in order for sex offender and now ex-MP Imran Ahmad Khan, whose early retirement has allowed him to get round to updating his Linkedin profile. His fellow users were notified today with news of his latest job:

    Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds, the procedural title given to MPs quitting the Commons. An exciting opportunity with room for professional growth and development…


    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/imran-ahmad-khans-exciting-new-job/

    Well done sub-under-officer. We always knew you had such potential.

    (I'm pretty happy to be out of that loop.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    edited May 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    I am on way back north, my meeting in the Bucks countryside being over (very close to Chequers as it happens), having driven down this morning. I am having the largest strongest coffee I can stomach and find that Sir Keir has laid down the gauntlet. Good for him!

    Those Covid lockdown rules are having a hell of an after-life.

    I assume nothing else has happened - like Putin declaring war on us or anything.

    I am currently listening to Mary Beard read her book "Twelve Caesars". I thought it would tell me about the Roman Emperors and what they did. But no. It's all about how they've been portrayed in art. At best it could have amounted to a 30 minute podcast. Instead of which it is endless chapter after endless chapter saying that

    1. Suetonius made up a lot of what he wrote.
    2. No-one really knows what Julius Caesar or others looked like.
    3. Artists made it up.
    4. Aristocrats liked having busts of them in their house.
    5. Er .... that's it.

    In TWELVE chapters. I don't think I've ever listened to anything so long and learned so little. In fact most of the time a I have no idea what she is talking about - it's like having a bath of warm words with occasional bubbles of names I recognise - Titian, Mantua, Charles 1st, Caligula etc.

    My admiration for my daughter who did a classics degree has increased significantly if this is what her lectures were like.

    That's a shame, as it's literally the next book on my reading pile (though I go in knowing it is about imagery).

    I could see a little of that party pooping tendency in her book SPQR, when talking about ancient battles and essentially going 'Things would have been far too chaotic for people to really know what was going on, so most of the detail we hear about, say, Cannae, is probably wrong' without really offering up any insight about that. I did enjoy the parts pointing out how the Roman foundational myths are really quite unusual in some ways (an unnecessary twin, outsides and outcasts founding the place etc)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Ah, the three times married American actress screwing with the royal family.

    Talk about history repeating itself.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,584
    Labour says it can prove Starmer’s team worked past 1am on Beergate night
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/09/labour-says-can-prove-starmer-team-worked-past-1am-beergate-night
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,935

    Just catching up on the rapidly moving goalposts of currygate. If I've got this right, the Mail/Sun and their fans on here have moved the goalposts off the pitch:

    1. Starmer must resign if he gets an FPN.
    2. Okay, he's said he will. But that's not good enough. He must resign even if he doesn't get an FPN if there's even a hint of wrongdoing but no sanction.
    3. And if neither 1. or 2. apply, Starmer should resign because that proves that he's nobbled the Durham Police.
    4. Actually, forget 1-3; Starmer should resign anyway because he's a dull, boring metropolitan lawyer who leads the evil Labour Party.

    Meanwhile, Wooton in the Mail is comparing Starmer to Richard Nixon. FFS.

    The Tory fans must be worried about something I reckon - quite hysterical.

    Very good indeed but you missed one -

    This threat to resign if he's fined is putting the heat on the Durham police and attempting to corrupt them - this in itself is totally unacceptable and a resigning offence if ever there was one.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    PB has gone ballistic! I usually read, assess and mentally log every comment, making suitable adjustments (if needed) to the standings of each poster on the key metrics of objectivity, judgement and ethics, but I'm going to have to let it go here. All get a pass.

    Do you have any idea how pompous you are?
    I'm not on this thread. Will revert soonest.
    :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    Have you ever wondered if the support for the monarchy is in fact support QEII and that sad day when she passes on the support for the monarchy will evaporate?
    Even Charles now has a net favourable rating of +27%, William of +67%, almost the same as the Queen's +71%.

    The British monarchy has with the exception of the Protectorate lasted for a 1000 years in England, Scotland and then the UK with monarchs coming and going. The Queen has been a good one but her loss after a long reign will be no different to Victoria's after a long 64 year reign and then the Prince of Wales proved a better than expected monarch as Edward VIIth for his relatively short 9 year reign
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/02/public-opinion-prince-charles-improves-latest-roya
    There’s a strong argument when Liz, sadly, moves on that they should skip a generation to help make the monarchy more relevant to diverse, dynamic, modern Britain.

    King William.
    People have been saying that literally for decades, I don't think it is that strong of an argument at this point. A balding 40 year old may be closer to the average person in the country but is not that much more relevant. Especially as part of Will's appeal seems to be he is personally boring, like his grandmother - a steady hand.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,068
    TimS said:

    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
    That's interesting. It has certainly become a commonplace. IIRC there was a whole hoo-ha when the German Ambassador raised the issue of British identity being formed by war-generation parents imprinting "standing alone" ideas on their boomer children. I don't think anyone denies the reality of that identity. And then it is exaggerated for effect by both sides (from Dad's Army references in red top headlines to earnest letters pages in the Guardian.)

    And we will see a load of it amplified by the passing of HMQ.

    If that is sneering remoanerism, fair enough.
    I’ve seen plenty of voxpops of people evidently born well after 1945 saying “well we survived the blitz so we’ll get through this”.

    I doubt they truly believe they were alive during the Blitz. But they speak to it with an ownership that claims the blitz spirit as some kind of inheritance. The same as those Russians saying today that “we beat the Nazis in 1943 so we’ll beat those Ukrainian Nazis in 2022”.
    How many voxpops would you say?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,525
    kinabalu said:

    Just catching up on the rapidly moving goalposts of currygate. If I've got this right, the Mail/Sun and their fans on here have moved the goalposts off the pitch:

    1. Starmer must resign if he gets an FPN.
    2. Okay, he's said he will. But that's not good enough. He must resign even if he doesn't get an FPN if there's even a hint of wrongdoing but no sanction.
    3. And if neither 1. or 2. apply, Starmer should resign because that proves that he's nobbled the Durham Police.
    4. Actually, forget 1-3; Starmer should resign anyway because he's a dull, boring metropolitan lawyer who leads the evil Labour Party.

    Meanwhile, Wooton in the Mail is comparing Starmer to Richard Nixon. FFS.

    The Tory fans must be worried about something I reckon - quite hysterical.

    Very good indeed but you missed one -

    This threat to resign if he's fined is putting the heat on the Durham police and attempting to corrupt them - this in itself is totally unacceptable and a resigning offence if ever there was one.
    Thanks, though I thought that was covered by my No. 3, at least implicitly?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,329
    edited May 2022

    Not exactly an ardent monarchist, but republicans need to think about the following question: which political party - who could conceivably be in government in the next 10-15 years - is going to have a referendum on whether to scrap the monarchy?
    Tories - no chance
    Labour - even if whoever is Labour leader is sympathetic to a republic, they won't touch it out of fear pissing of a chunk of the electorate they need to win.
    Lib Dems & other parties who might be in coalition or have C&S with Tories/Labour - not going to be a priority for negotiations, and will instead focus on getting PR, re-joining the SM, legalising cannabis etc... from one of the major parties.
    It's not going to happen.

    Indeed. Ed Davey is a constitutional monarchist as much as Boris, Starmer has said he backs a reformed monarchy.

    Republicans best chance was probably a Corbyn majority government in 2017 or 2019 given he was a republican or one propped up by the SNP.

    Corbyn's defeat means republicans likely lost their best chance for a generation or more
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,530

    Just catching up on the rapidly moving goalposts of currygate. If I've got this right, the Mail/Sun and their fans on here have moved the goalposts off the pitch:

    1. Starmer must resign if he gets an FPN.
    2. Okay, he's said he will. But that's not good enough. He must resign even if he doesn't get an FPN if there's even a hint of wrongdoing but no sanction.
    3. And if neither 1. or 2. apply, Starmer should resign because that proves that he's nobbled the Durham Police.
    4. Actually, forget 1-3; Starmer should resign anyway because he's a dull, boring metropolitan lawyer who leads the evil Labour Party.

    Meanwhile, Wooton in the Mail is comparing Starmer to Richard Nixon. FFS.

    The Tory fans must be worried about something I reckon - quite hysterical.

    Circumstance has essentially given us a pivotal turning point on the road to the next election, which revolves around whether SKS gets a FPN or not.

    The consequences of FPN or no FPN will cause a huge shift. I find it hard at this stage to exactly say how. I could see how a SKS exit could both help and hinder Labour election chances, ditto the other way round. And the same goes for no FPN. All I can safely say is that either way, there’ll probably be some sizeable shifts in both parties election chances over the next few months.

    If you were forcing me to give an view, I’d say Labour will come out of it with the better standing.
    I almost feel sorry for Durham plod. If they don't issue a FPN they will be accused of bowing to pressure not to cause a change of LOTO (i.e. giving in to Labour pressure rather than there being insufficient evidence). If they do issue an FPN they will be accused of bowing to pressure to cause a change of LOTO (i.e. giving in to Tory pressure rather than there being sufficient evidence).

    Hopefully plod won't care about the fact that Boris is in power and Keir isn't - they are both lawmakers so they should be treated equally. I suspect this will weigh against SKS. But IANAL.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    No one knows what sort of judgement she has. She has spent her reign saying nothing of any significance whatsoever.
    Sounds like a display of judgement to me.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,035

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    When we're talking about matters of emotional resonance, the people disagreeing with you aren't "not getting it". They just disagree. But to imply that their subjective view is the result of a diagnosable condition is way off. Come on.
    Republicanism is heavily overrepresented on here compared to the population at large.

    That is the reason, together with some misplaced sense of intellectual superiority.
    You've just ticked off another poster for pomposity and now you're telling me my republicanism is a symptom of my autism?

    Don't be such an arse.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    96 year old woman dies of natural causes, hotly tipped front runner eldest son succeeds? Hold the front page.
    I mean, a wesbite managed to make 'Crown Prince will succeed Queen' a news story

    Prince Charles is ready to becoming king whenever his mother, Queen Elizabeth II, decides to step down from the throne.

    “Charles will serve as king with Duchess Camilla by his side,” a source exclusively says in the new issue of Us Weekly. “This is something he’s dreamed about his entire life — he sees it as his birthright, and Her Majesty would find it extremely difficult to deprive him of that.”


    https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/inside-prince-charles-plans-if-queen-elizabeth-steps-down/
    "Crown Prince" sounding way sexier than "Prince of Wales" to US audience thanks to Disney movies?

    Though QEII's heir apparent's actual title COULD have featured as a character in "The Little Mermaid" or "Nemo'!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Former top manager of Lukoil and billionaire Alexander Subbotin has died after an anti-hangover session with a shaman. He experienced heart pain after using toad poison. The shaman didn’t call an ambulance but dripped Corvalol and put the billionaire to sleep in his basement.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1523481012281364480?s=20&t=W0p5r9sg0FlQkKUFbjiOgg

    I'm a bit worried about this, what toad poison are they on about? I do a fair amount of N,N-DMT which is the entry-level version of the toad-derived 5-MeO-DMT, having always thought it was physically harmless. Am I OK if I keep out of top level Russian politics?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    Not exactly an ardent monarchist, but republicans need to think about the following question: which political party - who could conceivably be in government in the next 10-15 years - is going to have a referendum on whether to scrap the monarchy?
    Tories - no chance
    Labour - even if whoever is Labour leader is sympathetic to a republic, they won't touch it out of fear pissing of a chunk of the electorate they need to win.
    Lib Dems & other parties who might be in coalition or have C&S with Tories/Labour - not going to be a priority for negotiations, and will instead focus on getting PR, re-joining the SM, legalising cannabis etc... from one of the major parties.
    It's not going to happen.

    It would take some pretty dramatic revelations and/or the reigning monarch doing something very very stupid. I don't think Charles or William are so reckless, so it is relying on the former to provide a moment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,136

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
    Do we know they want to be republics? Surely if they wanted it that much they would now be republics?

    Anyway, republics are shit and boring. You either have a political and divisive President (France /USA) or one that no-one ever hears about or knows (Ireland/Germany).

    Monarchs are better but there are rules you have to play by. They fall when their egos get the better of them, as ours would have done post WWII during the Attlee administration had Edward VIII not abdicated.
    Looking at the list of realms ruled by Glorious Britain, sorry, voluntary members of the regnal Commonwealth, they are:


    “Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.”

    Of those I’d say Oz, Jamaica and Belize are the most likely to go, first. But there is a question mark over all of them. For Oz it’s just an arse-ache - why bother if you are such a successful country, and this is source of stability? - for the other two it’s the opposite. Do you really need the extra INstability?

    I think it's only been me and you on here who've, consistently, argued for the monarchy. Perhaps backed by a handful of others.

    As you rightly said: most pb.com posters are number nerds who are somewhat on the spectrum and simply don't 'get' the powerful emotional reasonance and symbolism of the monarchy, nor why it's so valuable.
    London Bridge will be the most astonishing event that most of us have ever experienced.

    (And I was at the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).
    I imagine it will be somewhere between the brilliant episode of Upstairs Downstairs when Edward VII dies; and a week of wall-to-wall jingoism where weeping pensioners talk about how brilliant she was in the war, despite said pensioners not being born until 1950.

    It will certainly be memorable, though. I don't deny that.
    I haven't seen a single documented example of a baby boomer claiming to have been 'in the war'. Yet the 'fact' that this seemingly pointless affectation (who wants to seem older than they are?) is constantly being adopted has become a staple of sneering remoanerism.
    If I could make head or tail of what your post means, I am sure it would be worth a "like".
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,660
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am on way back north, my meeting in the Bucks countryside being over (very close to Chequers as it happens), having driven down this morning. I am having the largest strongest coffee I can stomach and find that Sir Keir has laid down the gauntlet. Good for him!

    Those Covid lockdown rules are having a hell of an after-life.

    I assume nothing else has happened - like Putin declaring war on us or anything.

    I am currently listening to Mary Beard read her book "Twelve Caesars". I thought it would tell me about the Roman Emperors and what they did. But no. It's all about how they've been portrayed in art. At best it could have amounted to a 30 minute podcast. Instead of which it is endless chapter after endless chapter saying that

    1. Suetonius made up a lot of what he wrote.
    2. No-one really knows what Julius Caesar or others looked like.
    3. Artists made it up.
    4. Aristocrats liked having busts of them in their house.
    5. Er .... that's it.

    In TWELVE chapters. I don't think I've ever listened to anything so long and learned so little. In fact most of the time a I have no idea what she is talking about - it's like having a bath of warm words with occasional bubbles of names I recognise - Titian, Mantua, Charles 1st, Caligula etc.

    My admiration for my daughter who did a classics degree has increased significantly if this is what her lectures were like.

    That's a shame, as it's literally the next book on my reading pile (though I go in knowing it is about imagery).

    I could see a little of that party pooping tendency in her book SPQR, when talking about ancient battles and essentially going 'Things would have been far too chaotic for people to really know what was going on, so most of the detail we hear about, say, Cannae, is probably wrong' without really offering up any insight about that. I did enjoy the parts pointing out how the Roman foundational myths are really quite unusual in some ways (an unnecessary twin, outsides and outcasts founding the place etc)
    For those who have not seen it (and who care about the relative merits of Greece vs Rome) here is Mary Beard in a 90-minute debate against Boris Johnson.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k448JqQyj8
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,068

    IshmaelZ said:

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    Sometimes attributed to his striking resemblance to her very close friend Lord Porchester
    Thanks, I googled him and I got this.


    It's not easy to see from that photo, but he looks like he's got brown eyes. It would be unusual for a child with a brown-eyed parent to have blue eyes, as the brown-eyed gene is dominant.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,136
    Nigelb said:
    I am rather hoping they can't and Lisa Nandy becomes LOTO.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Sex may have been part of it. But a likely just as - if not more important - part of it was that she provided him with the unconditional love and support he did not get from his mother (or father).
    Indeed, if you ever wonder why Meghan and Harry are as they are, consider the same toxic parenting.
    I'm sort of inclined to say, fuck that. Parenting is something we all fail more or less badly at, and there's more than a hint of "Thank God I am not as other men are" in uninformed criticism of other parents' performance.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,568
    edited May 2022

    Recently I was promoted and it took me six months to update my profile on the corporate intranet.....

    Congratulations are in order for sex offender and now ex-MP Imran Ahmad Khan, whose early retirement has allowed him to get round to updating his Linkedin profile. His fellow users were notified today with news of his latest job:

    Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds, the procedural title given to MPs quitting the Commons. An exciting opportunity with room for professional growth and development…


    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/imran-ahmad-khans-exciting-new-job/

    Wonder how long he will get to keep that job for?
    [Innocent face]
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,810

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am on way back north, my meeting in the Bucks countryside being over (very close to Chequers as it happens), having driven down this morning. I am having the largest strongest coffee I can stomach and find that Sir Keir has laid down the gauntlet. Good for him!

    Those Covid lockdown rules are having a hell of an after-life.

    I assume nothing else has happened - like Putin declaring war on us or anything.

    I am currently listening to Mary Beard read her book "Twelve Caesars". I thought it would tell me about the Roman Emperors and what they did. But no. It's all about how they've been portrayed in art. At best it could have amounted to a 30 minute podcast. Instead of which it is endless chapter after endless chapter saying that

    1. Suetonius made up a lot of what he wrote.
    2. No-one really knows what Julius Caesar or others looked like.
    3. Artists made it up.
    4. Aristocrats liked having busts of them in their house.
    5. Er .... that's it.

    In TWELVE chapters. I don't think I've ever listened to anything so long and learned so little. In fact most of the time a I have no idea what she is talking about - it's like having a bath of warm words with occasional bubbles of names I recognise - Titian, Mantua, Charles 1st, Caligula etc.

    My admiration for my daughter who did a classics degree has increased significantly if this is what her lectures were like.

    That's a shame, as it's literally the next book on my reading pile (though I go in knowing it is about imagery).

    I could see a little of that party pooping tendency in her book SPQR, when talking about ancient battles and essentially going 'Things would have been far too chaotic for people to really know what was going on, so most of the detail we hear about, say, Cannae, is probably wrong' without really offering up any insight about that. I did enjoy the parts pointing out how the Roman foundational myths are really quite unusual in some ways (an unnecessary twin, outsides and outcasts founding the place etc)
    For those who have not seen it (and who care about the relative merits of Greece vs Rome) here is Mary Beard in a 90-minute debate against Boris Johnson.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k448JqQyj8
    Doesn't seem like a fair fight, one the face of it. She generally knows what she's talking about.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    Not to throw the cat amongst the PB pigeons, but I genuinely thought the wave of apologies had started drying up.

    Hard not to see this as one of the new wave of apologies that are for the benefit and enjoyment of the apologiser. And in this case close to meaningless to the apologised.
    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1523407246579081216?cxt=HHwWgIDRybi0naQqAAAA
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/08/apology-800-years-on-for-laws-that-expelled-jews-from-england
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    If Brenda is so awesome why on earth is Prince Andrew her favourite child?

    I mean that's a great big red flag that she's got terrible judgment.

    Sometimes attributed to his striking resemblance to her very close friend Lord Porchester
    Thanks, I googled him and I got this.


    It's not easy to see from that photo, but he looks like he's got brown eyes. It would be unusual for a child with a brown-eyed parent to have blue eyes, as the brown-eyed gene is dominant.
    We don't say genes any more we say alleles at loci (and the difference matters). It's not that straightforward, and there's been lots of unnecessary murders and stuff based on the misconception that brown invariably trumps blue.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,660

    Recently I was promoted and it took me six months to update my profile on the corporate intranet.....

    Congratulations are in order for sex offender and now ex-MP Imran Ahmad Khan, whose early retirement has allowed him to get round to updating his Linkedin profile. His fellow users were notified today with news of his latest job:

    Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds, the procedural title given to MPs quitting the Commons. An exciting opportunity with room for professional growth and development…


    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/imran-ahmad-khans-exciting-new-job/

    One imagines satirists have been pulling Guido's plonker.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am on way back north, my meeting in the Bucks countryside being over (very close to Chequers as it happens), having driven down this morning. I am having the largest strongest coffee I can stomach and find that Sir Keir has laid down the gauntlet. Good for him!

    Those Covid lockdown rules are having a hell of an after-life.

    I assume nothing else has happened - like Putin declaring war on us or anything.

    I am currently listening to Mary Beard read her book "Twelve Caesars". I thought it would tell me about the Roman Emperors and what they did. But no. It's all about how they've been portrayed in art. At best it could have amounted to a 30 minute podcast. Instead of which it is endless chapter after endless chapter saying that

    1. Suetonius made up a lot of what he wrote.
    2. No-one really knows what Julius Caesar or others looked like.
    3. Artists made it up.
    4. Aristocrats liked having busts of them in their house.
    5. Er .... that's it.

    In TWELVE chapters. I don't think I've ever listened to anything so long and learned so little. In fact most of the time a I have no idea what she is talking about - it's like having a bath of warm words with occasional bubbles of names I recognise - Titian, Mantua, Charles 1st, Caligula etc.

    My admiration for my daughter who did a classics degree has increased significantly if this is what her lectures were like.

    That's a shame, as it's literally the next book on my reading pile (though I go in knowing it is about imagery).

    I could see a little of that party pooping tendency in her book SPQR, when talking about ancient battles and essentially going 'Things would have been far too chaotic for people to really know what was going on, so most of the detail we hear about, say, Cannae, is probably wrong' without really offering up any insight about that. I did enjoy the parts pointing out how the Roman foundational myths are really quite unusual in some ways (an unnecessary twin, outsides and outcasts founding the place etc)
    For those who have not seen it (and who care about the relative merits of Greece vs Rome) here is Mary Beard in a 90-minute debate against Boris Johnson.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k448JqQyj8
    Doesn't seem like a fair fight, one the face of it. She generally knows what she's talking about.
    An academic expert in their field vs a former journalist and MP who did classics at univeristy 30 years before and likes it is presumably designed as an entertainment event not an even intellectual contest.

    But did he win?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    edited May 2022

    Cyclefree said:


    I have no idea what a "Singapore Grip" is. Is it like being "regnal"?

    Well, it's nearly the lagershed.

    As a male's penis is in the female's vagina, the male chooses not to thrust. The Female then clenches the vagina and continues to have intercourse with the stationary man, simulating the feeling of a vigorous handjob.

    "Oh Honey, I've had a long day at work and don't feel likely pleasuring me, can we do the singapore grip tonight?


    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Singapore Grip

    which leads to Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor.

    . "It's assumed she must have magic powers; that she must have hypnotised him. But nobody can put their finger on what it was about her. She wasn't even young; she was 40; she wasn't even beautiful. But clearly a woman who attracted three husbands must have had something." That something was rumoured to be a string of sex tricks learned in the brothels of the East, where she spent time with her first husband. The Shanghai Squeeze and Singapore Grip are both probably self-explanatory, but think "matchstick" and "cigar", and men, at least, might start to fathom her hold over Edward.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-return-of-wallis-simpson-2219771.html
    Sex may have been part of it. But a likely just as - if not more important - part of it was that she provided him with the unconditional love and support he did not get from his mother (or father).
    The rumour seems very mean. Also, I think in photographs she looks very striking, and quite beautiful. We're constantly told how ugly she was, but if she was that bad, one wonders how she got all the opportunities to prove her vulvic dexterity in the first place.
    There is a more flattering picture on wikipedia than the one that usually gets put about. This was Wallis Simpson in 1936, right around the time she was involved with Edward

    image
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,584

    Nigelb said:
    I am rather hoping they can't and Lisa Nandy becomes LOTO.
    Well indeed.

    But reading the Guardian account, it rather looks as though Starmer’s crew are a bit more organised than the Mail (or indeed we) counted on.
    The chances of an FPN just dropped significantly.
This discussion has been closed.