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Starmer’s approval rating no change at -2% – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 15 in General
imageStarmer’s approval rating no change at -2% – politicalbetting.com

The fieldwork all took place today.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    You are spoiling us, Ambassador, with new threads
  • It's difficult to have an opinion on an empty suit, and first?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    edited May 9
    PB kremlinologists will note the authorship of this thread, contra TSE's claim to be at the helm. Fighting over the nuclear football nae doot.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    edited May 9
    Is quick change of threads part of TSE's coup d'web?

    edit - No! It's part of OGH's fight back!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    FPT - Consternation of PB Bojo Brigade is palpable, and quasi-pitiable. Mirroring mood in No 10 & Tory HQ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,748
    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,357
    FAR too early to say. Give it a fortnight and then we will see
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,464
    Funny one from @SavantaComRes courtesy of @EmmaLevin_

    One in five say they've heard a lot about a fictional Covid-scandal, where Ed Davey broke the rules to go hiking.

    #Hikegate
    #Beergate
    #Partygate https://t.co/y526RkTX3i

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705506371579904?t=b1LDwxxHHfLp_gPnpN4sow&s=19
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,507
    Leon said:

    FAR too early to say. Give it a fortnight and then we will see

    Or two years.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,464

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    Hope Ed Miliband still has his #Edstone...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    Foxy said:

    Funny one from @SavantaComRes courtesy of @EmmaLevin_

    One in five say they've heard a lot about a fictional Covid-scandal, where Ed Davey broke the rules to go hiking.

    #Hikegate
    #Beergate
    #Partygate https://t.co/y526RkTX3i

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705506371579904?t=b1LDwxxHHfLp_gPnpN4sow&s=19

    If I were Ed Davey I'd be having a word about that with BPC. Not as clever or funny as it looks.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,825

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 543
    FPT, in reply to DixieDean,

    “Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/

    I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 1,950
    Foxy said:

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    Hope Ed Miliband still has his #Edstone...
    It's Lutfur Rahman and George Galloway as caretaker co leaders
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,690
    eek said:

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
    Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,558
    His lead over Johnson as Best PM has increased.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
    Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
    Ahem...mein fuhrer...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,195
    ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,135
    Foxy said:

    Funny one from @SavantaComRes courtesy of @EmmaLevin_

    One in five say they've heard a lot about a fictional Covid-scandal, where Ed Davey broke the rules to go hiking.

    #Hikegate
    #Beergate
    #Partygate https://t.co/y526RkTX3i

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705506371579904?t=b1LDwxxHHfLp_gPnpN4sow&s=19

    That tells you all you need to know about the state of politics and media.

    Maybe the public are totally turned off by all this crap when they have way more important things to worry about, that don’t seem to affect the six-figure salaries working in SW1.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    Foxy said:

    Funny one from @SavantaComRes courtesy of @EmmaLevin_

    One in five say they've heard a lot about a fictional Covid-scandal, where Ed Davey broke the rules to go hiking.

    #Hikegate
    #Beergate
    #Partygate https://t.co/y526RkTX3i

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705506371579904?t=b1LDwxxHHfLp_gPnpN4sow&s=19

    Surely he broke the rules to go Morris dancing?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350
    Foxy said:

    Funny one from @SavantaComRes courtesy of @EmmaLevin_

    One in five say they've heard a lot about a fictional Covid-scandal, where Ed Davey broke the rules to go hiking.

    #Hikegate
    #Beergate
    #Partygate https://t.co/y526RkTX3i

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705506371579904?t=b1LDwxxHHfLp_gPnpN4sow&s=19

    Always funny when they do these ones. I like the ones where they get public views on made up politicians. Says a lot.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
    Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
    RCS, assure us you are in a safe location? At least as safe as can be in El Lay?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    Just posting something on this one (can't keep up!).

    I am far from convinced in the tory posters saying Sir Keir thinks he's in the clear.

    On the contrary, I think Keir is prepared to fall on his sword to a) pile pressure on Johnson and b) propel Labour to victory at the GE.

    Unlike Boris, Keir Starmer would rather sacrifice himself for his party's success.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,690
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.

    That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?

    It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
    Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
    Ahem...mein fuhrer...
    Bad joke.

    Or as my 11 year old says when I crack a gag:

    Not funny. Didn't laugh.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,589
    Zelensky’s May 9th speech was rather better than Putin’s.
    https://twitter.com/ArkadyOstrovsky/status/1523579920295018496
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,464
    edited May 9

    His lead over Johnson as Best PM has increased.

    Having a beer and takeaway curry with the campaign staff shows a human side that he has struggled with.

    I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350
    Do we know if Charlie Falconer will also resign?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,195
    If you're betting on Andy Burnham to be the next Labour leader, why not give that money to me instead? Cash, cheques or cryptocurrency all welcome. https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1523683589245657093
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    Foxy said:

    His lead over Johnson as Best PM has increased.

    Having a beer and takeaway curry with the campaign staff shows a human side that he has struggled with.

    I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
    Can we now say, that under Starmer's leadership, Labour is (I paraphrase) "curry with the fringe left off"?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,650

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Starmer allowed himself to be photographed inside a lateral flow test centre in March 2021 without wearing a mask when it was a legal requirement:

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1367859038470500353

    image

    Very, very easy. The biggest medical exemption of all.

    Ever tried testing yourself when wearing a mask?

    1. Mask off and in pocket (or invisible in left hand, here)
    2. swab
    3. Hand swab to nice lady
    4. Mask back on.

    This is clearly stage 3 (eyes watering as well).
    Indeed. Pretty hard to swab with mask on :wink: Technically possible to get mask on one-handed while holding sample in other hand (increased risk of contamination while faffing about). But certainly I never did that (we had a testing centre at uni quite early on, required for any office access).
    Simple, lower the mask below the nose/mouth, take the test, put it back. All with one hand!
    Doesn't work for the kind of disposable mask with loops over the ears.
    Huh? Yes it does, in fact it's probably even easier with the disposable ones because the loops are stretchy. You can just pull it down below your chin.
    Not in the ones I get from a specialist chemist firm and see in doctors etc.
    Different kind of disposable mask, no doubt. I don't agree with you that it is impossible to do one-handed though.
    I can assure you that that is the case. UNless you have a spare tentacle or three, or a prehensile tail to help. And can do it without banging the swab into the wall or table.
    What?! I've done plenty of COVID tests with the chin strap mask position using the crappy blue masks from Amazon. It's easy. Lower mask over chin, take nasal swab, raise mask back above nostrils, give swab to test person through car window. It's really not difficult at all.

    Once again, the reason this is an issue is because of all the stupid rules Starmer voted through, not because he slipped up. We all did from time to time. He presents this holier than thou image of being some kind of lockdown and rule abiding person but really he's as fallible as the rest of us. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't in favour of lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Honestly, if it were up to him I wouldn't be surprised to see some COVID measures come back.
    Keir was consistently wrong on Covid.
    I don’t see why that justifies a witch-hunt against him.

    The actual reason this story exists at all is that Boris was desperate to find something which would provoke voters into thinking “they’re all the same”.

    Maybe it’s worked, I don’t know.
    But it’s a disgraceful spectacle.
    It's because he was consistently wrong on COVID that he deserves everything coming to him. If he's mustered some ability to tell the government "no" his beer and curry wouldn't have potentially fallen foul of the ridiculous rules.

    He opened pandora's box of COVID rules alongside Boris. He's in the special category of arsehole just the same where any minor infraction of the law or even guidance means it's a resigning issue. I've said plenty of times that Boris should have resigned once the party stuff came out, that the MPs should remove him, that his position is untenable, I quit the Tory party when Dom went for his joyride through Durham. I am very consistent on this position - those who make the rules can't break them. Keir Starmer voted in favour of the second lockdown, he voted in favour of the government extending it, he voted in favour of all the idiotic rules. All while there was enough opposition within Tory ranks to force the government to back down. He is as responsible for the lamentable state of affairs we had from February to May.

    As I've said plenty of times today - the best outcome is Starmer being forced to resign and bringing Boris down with him. Neither are fit to be PM and clearly think the rules are for the little people. His tawdry actions today to try and force the Durham police into a corner of clearing him shows, once again, that he is unfit to be PM, it's a move worthy of Boris.
    But he didn’t break the rules.
    I too want Keir gone, I don’t think he is up to it.
    But not on trumped up charges.
    How do you know he didn't break the rules? I'm not even sure what the rules were. Beers and a curry with people from outside your household until late into the night doesn't sound as though it was allowed, though the specific rules were fairly vague at the time and not easy to understand.

    You are very certain he didn't break the rules, why? Because he's said he didn't? Rishi said he didn't break the rules and he still got a FPN. Rishi, despite everything, doesn't strike me as a party animal or someone who would simply cover up his own known wrongdoing by lying about it. Just because Starmer doesn't think he broke the rules it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't.
    Obviously I’m not in a position to say Keir didn’t break any rules. Unlike some other posters, I don’t rifle through his rubbish bins.

    I don’t really understand why Sunak (or even Boris) for an FPN for cake-gate. I assume we don’t know all the facts.

    Regarding Durham, I always viewed it as working “curry” just like I’ve had to put on a hundred times for developers working late, and so I’ve never understood at all how it could be considered a breach under any reasonable test.
    Yeah, but that's not during COVID. That's the confounding factor you're not taking into account. This was, from what's been made public, essentially an opportunity for local volunteers to mingle with the leadership and be made to feel important for the day. I've been to plenty of those events where some Cabinet minister will grace the room with their moronic presence, chat and try and pretend they don't think everyone else in the room is loathsome. That they got it at the end of the day and got drinks in is pretty telling, the eyewitness account from the (likely) Corbyn supporter was also pretty damning.

    On people getting a FPN for "ambushed with a cake" - it's because the rules were completely ridiculous, no more no less. It made me pretty happy to see those wankers get done after they introduced all these rules just as I'm happy to see Starmer get done now because he was a huge part of that once the Tory MPs had decided to rebel.

    Happily we're now past that time when the government decided it would be in charge of every aspect of our lives, yet I'd like to see many more people who supported lockdowns and all the other bullshit be hounded out of public life.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    Nigelb said:
    Oddly (in more ways than one) reminiscent of joint photos of George V and Nicholas II
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    Nothing to see here.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,135
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    There’s Matt Pritchett - and then there’s all the other cartoonists, some way behind.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636
    Happy Victory Day, Comrades :lol:
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,661
    Foxy said:

    His lead over Johnson as Best PM has increased.

    Having a beer and takeaway curry with the campaign staff shows a human side that he has struggled with.

    I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
    That's the other interesting thing about Starmer's move.

    In lots of ways, it was unavoidable. But it's also him putting his dangly bits on the line to defend his honour, which is more human than most of his actions.

    (It's also that thing Bozza never quite carries through on, preferring to hide in a fridge instead.)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,650
    @Richard_Nabavi, just following up on Macron not having a good war, Le Monde has compared him unfavourably to Boris Johnson. That's pretty damning.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 4,989
    edited May 9
    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,164
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Starmer allowed himself to be photographed inside a lateral flow test centre in March 2021 without wearing a mask when it was a legal requirement:

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1367859038470500353

    image

    Very, very easy. The biggest medical exemption of all.

    Ever tried testing yourself when wearing a mask?

    1. Mask off and in pocket (or invisible in left hand, here)
    2. swab
    3. Hand swab to nice lady
    4. Mask back on.

    This is clearly stage 3 (eyes watering as well).
    Indeed. Pretty hard to swab with mask on :wink: Technically possible to get mask on one-handed while holding sample in other hand (increased risk of contamination while faffing about). But certainly I never did that (we had a testing centre at uni quite early on, required for any office access).
    Simple, lower the mask below the nose/mouth, take the test, put it back. All with one hand!
    Doesn't work for the kind of disposable mask with loops over the ears.
    Huh? Yes it does, in fact it's probably even easier with the disposable ones because the loops are stretchy. You can just pull it down below your chin.
    Not in the ones I get from a specialist chemist firm and see in doctors etc.
    Different kind of disposable mask, no doubt. I don't agree with you that it is impossible to do one-handed though.
    I can assure you that that is the case. UNless you have a spare tentacle or three, or a prehensile tail to help. And can do it without banging the swab into the wall or table.
    What?! I've done plenty of COVID tests with the chin strap mask position using the crappy blue masks from Amazon. It's easy. Lower mask over chin, take nasal swab, raise mask back above nostrils, give swab to test person through car window. It's really not difficult at all.

    Once again, the reason this is an issue is because of all the stupid rules Starmer voted through, not because he slipped up. We all did from time to time. He presents this holier than thou image of being some kind of lockdown and rule abiding person but really he's as fallible as the rest of us. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't in favour of lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Honestly, if it were up to him I wouldn't be surprised to see some COVID measures come back.
    Keir was consistently wrong on Covid.
    I don’t see why that justifies a witch-hunt against him.

    The actual reason this story exists at all is that Boris was desperate to find something which would provoke voters into thinking “they’re all the same”.

    Maybe it’s worked, I don’t know.
    But it’s a disgraceful spectacle.
    It's because he was consistently wrong on COVID that he deserves everything coming to him. If he's mustered some ability to tell the government "no" his beer and curry wouldn't have potentially fallen foul of the ridiculous rules.

    He opened pandora's box of COVID rules alongside Boris. He's in the special category of arsehole just the same where any minor infraction of the law or even guidance means it's a resigning issue. I've said plenty of times that Boris should have resigned once the party stuff came out, that the MPs should remove him, that his position is untenable, I quit the Tory party when Dom went for his joyride through Durham. I am very consistent on this position - those who make the rules can't break them. Keir Starmer voted in favour of the second lockdown, he voted in favour of the government extending it, he voted in favour of all the idiotic rules. All while there was enough opposition within Tory ranks to force the government to back down. He is as responsible for the lamentable state of affairs we had from February to May.

    As I've said plenty of times today - the best outcome is Starmer being forced to resign and bringing Boris down with him. Neither are fit to be PM and clearly think the rules are for the little people. His tawdry actions today to try and force the Durham police into a corner of clearing him shows, once again, that he is unfit to be PM, it's a move worthy of Boris.
    But he didn’t break the rules.
    I too want Keir gone, I don’t think he is up to it.
    But not on trumped up charges.
    How do you know he didn't break the rules? I'm not even sure what the rules were. Beers and a curry with people from outside your household until late into the night doesn't sound as though it was allowed, though the specific rules were fairly vague at the time and not easy to understand.

    You are very certain he didn't break the rules, why? Because he's said he didn't? Rishi said he didn't break the rules and he still got a FPN. Rishi, despite everything, doesn't strike me as a party animal or someone who would simply cover up his own known wrongdoing by lying about it. Just because Starmer doesn't think he broke the rules it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't.
    Obviously I’m not in a position to say Keir didn’t break any rules. Unlike some other posters, I don’t rifle through his rubbish bins.

    I don’t really understand why Sunak (or even Boris) for an FPN for cake-gate. I assume we don’t know all the facts.

    Regarding Durham, I always viewed it as working “curry” just like I’ve had to put on a hundred times for developers working late, and so I’ve never understood at all how it could be considered a breach under any reasonable test.
    Yeah, but that's not during COVID. That's the confounding factor you're not taking into account. This was, from what's been made public, essentially an opportunity for local volunteers to mingle with the leadership and be made to feel important for the day. I've been to plenty of those events where some Cabinet minister will grace the room with their moronic presence, chat and try and pretend they don't think everyone else in the room is loathsome. That they got it at the end of the day and got drinks in is pretty telling, the eyewitness account from the (likely) Corbyn supporter was also pretty damning.

    On people getting a FPN for "ambushed with a cake" - it's because the rules were completely ridiculous, no more no less. It made me pretty happy to see those wankers get done after they introduced all these rules just as I'm happy to see Starmer get done now because he was a huge part of that once the Tory MPs had decided to rebel.

    Happily we're now past that time when the government decided it would be in charge of every aspect of our lives, yet I'd like to see many more people who supported lockdowns and all the other bullshit be hounded out of public life.
    Wasn't it somehow connected with the Hartlepool by-election (which they lost) and not just a royal visit to a few activists?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,135
    edited May 9

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
    There’s a massive difference between the Great British Public, and the posters to this blog.

    Robert’s right on the main point, most people pay no attention to politics outside the general election cycle.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,589

    Foxy said:

    His lead over Johnson as Best PM has increased.

    Having a beer and takeaway curry with the campaign staff shows a human side that he has struggled with.

    I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
    That's the other interesting thing about Starmer's move.

    In lots of ways, it was unavoidable. But it's also him putting his dangly bits on the line to defend his honour, which is more human than most of his actions.

    (It's also that thing Bozza never quite carries through on, preferring to hide in a fridge instead.)
    Yes, most unfair of Starmer not to try to brazen it out like the lascivious limpet in No.10.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
    There is a lot of truth in RCS2000’s post. I missed it in amongst all the new threads.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,962
    edited May 9
    MaxPB said:

    @Richard_Nabavi, just following up on Macron not having a good war, Le Monde has compared him unfavourably to Boris Johnson. That's pretty damning.

    Yes, and I think fair. I wouldn't put him [Macron] in anything like the same category as Scholz, though.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,999

    I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.

    Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    carnforth said:

    FPT, in reply to DixieDean,

    “Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/

    I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.

    I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
    There’s a massive difference between the Great British Public, and the posters to this blog.

    Robert’s right on the main point, most people pay no attention to politics outside the general election cycle.
    Easy-ish for the Tories to obfuscate too. “Number 10 is also the PM’s home and it was all a bit confused. Starmer went out drinking”.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 1,950
    I guess if the papers have been sitting on any other related stories or extra Durham info they'll bring it forward for tomorrows papers given today's statement. So hurdle one for SKS is tomorrow's headlines
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,164
    EPG said:

    I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.

    Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
    Don't forget that assessing whether there was enough evidence to prosecute was literally Starmer's day job.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,939
    @Sandpit

    On the previous thread, you said that Corbyn lost of VoNC and was forced to resign, but allowed to stand in the subsequent leadership election.

    That is incorrect. VoNC are not binding on Labour or part of their rule book.

    He lost, refused to resign, and was challenged in a leadership election where he was held, as the incumbent leader, to be entitled to stand without being renominated. This was an important point as he could not have got the necessary number of nominations.

    And he won easily.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 543
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    There’s Matt Pritchett - and then there’s all the other cartoonists, some way behind.
    According to Private Eye, he’s on 650k, comfortably more than the editor.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,525
    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    Yes, I suggested the same. People not paying a huge amount of notice would conclude that a greater punishment followed a greater crime.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    Scott_xP said:

    If you're betting on Andy Burnham to be the next Labour leader, why not give that money to me instead? Cash, cheques or cryptocurrency all welcome. https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1523683589245657093

    there was that US comic who in about 2012 was doing a well regarded routine of LOL Donald Trump I just dare you to run for president...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,135

    EPG said:

    I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.

    Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
    Don't forget that assessing whether there was enough evidence to prosecute was literally Starmer's day job.
    Wasn’t it (in the case of Jimmy Savile) explicitly NOT his day job, as he was merely the manager of those who made such decisions?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,589
    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
    There is a lot of truth in RCS2000’s post…
    I think you have Robert confused with a Ford Escort.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,147
    We have a part time monarch.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 3,637
    EPG said:

    I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.

    Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
    I know that's been put around by right wing commentators, but it doesn't really make sense as an argument.

    When Police investigate a public figure, they already know that a decision to charge, or to issue a FPN, is likely to have significant political consequences. It makes very little difference whether that consequence is that they WILL resign, or that they will be under very substantial pressure to go.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,570
    One thing we learnt today. Starmer has a sense of humour.

    This pledgegate thing is hilarious
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,649
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
    There’s a massive difference between the Great British Public, and the posters to this blog.

    Robert’s right on the main point, most people pay no attention to politics outside the general election cycle.
    Yes, Boris's allies will certainly attempt to frame it as 'Poor old Boris just had a nibble of birthday cake whereas Labour's hypocritical lying Remoaner leadership were forced to quit in disgrace'. But they'll do something similar even if Sir Keir is completely cleared, so Sir Keir may as well go down in a blaze of glory.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,149
    edited May 9
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,464
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Starmer allowed himself to be photographed inside a lateral flow test centre in March 2021 without wearing a mask when it was a legal requirement:

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1367859038470500353

    image

    Very, very easy. The biggest medical exemption of all.

    Ever tried testing yourself when wearing a mask?

    1. Mask off and in pocket (or invisible in left hand, here)
    2. swab
    3. Hand swab to nice lady
    4. Mask back on.

    This is clearly stage 3 (eyes watering as well).
    Indeed. Pretty hard to swab with mask on :wink: Technically possible to get mask on one-handed while holding sample in other hand (increased risk of contamination while faffing about). But certainly I never did that (we had a testing centre at uni quite early on, required for any office access).
    Simple, lower the mask below the nose/mouth, take the test, put it back. All with one hand!
    Doesn't work for the kind of disposable mask with loops over the ears.
    Huh? Yes it does, in fact it's probably even easier with the disposable ones because the loops are stretchy. You can just pull it down below your chin.
    Not in the ones I get from a specialist chemist firm and see in doctors etc.
    Different kind of disposable mask, no doubt. I don't agree with you that it is impossible to do one-handed though.
    I can assure you that that is the case. UNless you have a spare tentacle or three, or a prehensile tail to help. And can do it without banging the swab into the wall or table.
    What?! I've done plenty of COVID tests with the chin strap mask position using the crappy blue masks from Amazon. It's easy. Lower mask over chin, take nasal swab, raise mask back above nostrils, give swab to test person through car window. It's really not difficult at all.

    Once again, the reason this is an issue is because of all the stupid rules Starmer voted through, not because he slipped up. We all did from time to time. He presents this holier than thou image of being some kind of lockdown and rule abiding person but really he's as fallible as the rest of us. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't in favour of lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Honestly, if it were up to him I wouldn't be surprised to see some COVID measures come back.
    Keir was consistently wrong on Covid.
    I don’t see why that justifies a witch-hunt against him.

    The actual reason this story exists at all is that Boris was desperate to find something which would provoke voters into thinking “they’re all the same”.

    Maybe it’s worked, I don’t know.
    But it’s a disgraceful spectacle.
    It's because he was consistently wrong on COVID that he deserves everything coming to him. If he's mustered some ability to tell the government "no" his beer and curry wouldn't have potentially fallen foul of the ridiculous rules.

    He opened pandora's box of COVID rules alongside Boris. He's in the special category of arsehole just the same where any minor infraction of the law or even guidance means it's a resigning issue. I've said plenty of times that Boris should have resigned once the party stuff came out, that the MPs should remove him, that his position is untenable, I quit the Tory party when Dom went for his joyride through Durham. I am very consistent on this position - those who make the rules can't break them. Keir Starmer voted in favour of the second lockdown, he voted in favour of the government extending it, he voted in favour of all the idiotic rules. All while there was enough opposition within Tory ranks to force the government to back down. He is as responsible for the lamentable state of affairs we had from February to May.

    As I've said plenty of times today - the best outcome is Starmer being forced to resign and bringing Boris down with him. Neither are fit to be PM and clearly think the rules are for the little people. His tawdry actions today to try and force the Durham police into a corner of clearing him shows, once again, that he is unfit to be PM, it's a move worthy of Boris.
    But he didn’t break the rules.
    I too want Keir gone, I don’t think he is up to it.
    But not on trumped up charges.
    How do you know he didn't break the rules? I'm not even sure what the rules were. Beers and a curry with people from outside your household until late into the night doesn't sound as though it was allowed, though the specific rules were fairly vague at the time and not easy to understand.

    You are very certain he didn't break the rules, why? Because he's said he didn't? Rishi said he didn't break the rules and he still got a FPN. Rishi, despite everything, doesn't strike me as a party animal or someone who would simply cover up his own known wrongdoing by lying about it. Just because Starmer doesn't think he broke the rules it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't.
    Obviously I’m not in a position to say Keir didn’t break any rules. Unlike some other posters, I don’t rifle through his rubbish bins.

    I don’t really understand why Sunak (or even Boris) for an FPN for cake-gate. I assume we don’t know all the facts.

    Regarding Durham, I always viewed it as working “curry” just like I’ve had to put on a hundred times for developers working late, and so I’ve never understood at all how it could be considered a breach under any reasonable test.
    I've been to plenty of those events where some Cabinet minister will grace the room with their moronic presence, chat and try and pretend they don't think everyone else in the room is loathsome.
    Have you ever considered that such a party may not be worth supporting?

    Back in 1997, when I was New Labour, I met several of the then Shadow Cabinet, and they seemed very happy to chat and meet activists on the ground.

    Similarly, When I have been at Lib Dem meetings I have socialised with some well known names, and once again they were charming and keen to listen.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,962
    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    FPT, in reply to DixieDean,

    “Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/

    I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.

    I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
    You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.

    That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 1,282
    edited May 9

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    Yes, I suggested the same. People not paying a huge amount of notice would conclude that a greater punishment followed a greater crime.
    People view Johnson as guilty of overseeing party central . They’re not making a direct comparison between one FPN v another.

    I admire the lengths some are going to in here to try and mitigate the horrible realization that Johnson is fxcked whatever happens .
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,301
    On topic, the conclusion is not proven from the evidence. As far as we know, without this story Starmer's ratings could have gone up as people's sentiment abandons the Tories after their horrifying council results. Or it could have gone down without the story as people suddenly see that despite Labour not setting the red wall on fire in the council elections at least he's a normal guy swigging beer and eating curry.

    Many variables go into making opinion. Hostile press coverage is just one of them.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,301

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,464

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 1,950

    EPG said:

    I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.

    Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
    Don't forget that assessing whether there was enough evidence to prosecute was literally Starmer's day job.
    He didnt really do littering level offences though. Below his pay grade.
    I mean there is enough to fine him if they want to, they just have to say that the meal was not necessary for work purposes or that the primary purpose appears to have been social.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 2,421
    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    There’s Matt Pritchett - and then there’s all the other cartoonists, some way behind.
    According to Private Eye, he’s on 650k, comfortably more than the editor.
    Worth every penny.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    Oh dear, The Queen is to miss the State Opening of Parliament.

    Things aren't too good, are they? :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,513

    We have a part time monarch.

    People never go on long term sickleave in your industry?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 1,950
    Be a lolz if Keir gets a FPN for speeding in the next few days
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,399
    Another torrid day for the markets
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    Yes, I suggested the same. People not paying a huge amount of notice would conclude that a greater punishment followed a greater crime.
    “The PM accepted a technical breach of the rules happened in his case, in a busy and confused environment where his office met his home. The PM has a clear conscience and is now getting on with the job, having reformed the leadership team in Number 10. You will have to ask Sir Keir about this drinking session away from his office and why he felt he had to resign”.

    Something like that. The Tories will try and brazen it out.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,209
    Foxy said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
    Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,454
    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    FPT, in reply to DixieDean,

    “Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/

    I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.

    I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
    You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.

    That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
    Aren't they the force who made the Dominic Cummings decision?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    Farooq said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
    "The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."

    Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,301

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,513
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
    Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
    It wouldn't be breaking it at all - she'd still be willing to serve, if she can, just not physically capable. Rather than no longer willing or able, under abdication.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,513
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
    "The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."

    Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
    People do sometimes get a bit wild after the loss of a spouse...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,939
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
    "The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."

    Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
    Neither of those were exactly a blessing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    FPT, in reply to DixieDean,

    “Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/

    I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.

    I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
    You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.

    That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
    Aren't they the force who made the Dominic Cummings decision?
    I rest my case.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,209
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
    "The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."

    Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
    People do sometimes get a bit wild after the loss of a spouse...
    And she has been spending a lot of time with a renowned womaniser.... Hmm...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
    Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
    Or just scrap the monarchy.

    I think she's been amazing and I have great respect for her, despite some mistakes, but the institution is past its sell by date.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,301
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
    "The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."

    Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
    I don't see why the 14-month thing is necessary. A bit of last-minute field playing after the end of a long marriage never hurt anyone. I won't speculate who the father is.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,826
    edited May 9

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    I think its more likely after today. If Starmer gets a FPN, Boris won't be able to survive (especially if he gets some penalty points on his licence).
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    There’s Matt Pritchett - and then there’s all the other cartoonists, some way behind.
    According to Private Eye, he’s on 650k, comfortably more than the editor.
    Yes. He gets paid more than the editor, has a lot of time off and some quite ridiculous perks.

    He also has standing offers from the Mail and the Sun, and the publisher has made it clear to the editor that losing Matt would be a resigning issue for the latter. Despite the fact that his content is available free, pretty much everywhere, several hours before it appears in the paper itself.

    In other words, it’s the free market at work, and he deserves every penny of it.
    Yup. He could probably even make the same or more on patreon. He is THE cartoonist of his day and boosts their brand.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,464

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,513
    Heathener said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
    Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
    Or just scrap the monarchy.

    I think she's been amazing and I have great respect for her, despite some mistakes, but the institution is past its sell by date.
    Have you seen the mess that can be made when our divided political class and public seek to grapple with matters of major constitutional change? Muddling along with the monarchy as an institution is a small price to pay to avoid the aggravation of deciding upon a replacement system.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,442
    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,632
    Clause 4 moment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,748
    Farooq said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Sack her
    Why? Everyone else is WFH aren't they?
This discussion has been closed.