Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
Hope Ed Miliband still has his #Edstone...
It's Lutfur Rahman and George Galloway as caretaker co leaders
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
That tells you all you need to know about the state of politics and media.
Maybe the public are totally turned off by all this crap when they have way more important things to worry about, that don’t seem to affect the six-figure salaries working in SW1.
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
RCS, assure us you are in a safe location? At least as safe as can be in El Lay?
Labour Rule Book 2022 says if both leader and deputy "unavailable" then NEC in consultation with Shadow Cabinet may appoint an interim leader until ballot.
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
It would in all likelihood be Hilary Benn.
Ah, so they would appoint a woman as temporary leader.
I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.
Very, very easy. The biggest medical exemption of all.
Ever tried testing yourself when wearing a mask?
1. Mask off and in pocket (or invisible in left hand, here) 2. swab 3. Hand swab to nice lady 4. Mask back on.
This is clearly stage 3 (eyes watering as well).
Indeed. Pretty hard to swab with mask on Technically possible to get mask on one-handed while holding sample in other hand (increased risk of contamination while faffing about). But certainly I never did that (we had a testing centre at uni quite early on, required for any office access).
Simple, lower the mask below the nose/mouth, take the test, put it back. All with one hand!
Doesn't work for the kind of disposable mask with loops over the ears.
Huh? Yes it does, in fact it's probably even easier with the disposable ones because the loops are stretchy. You can just pull it down below your chin.
Not in the ones I get from a specialist chemist firm and see in doctors etc.
Different kind of disposable mask, no doubt. I don't agree with you that it is impossible to do one-handed though.
I can assure you that that is the case. UNless you have a spare tentacle or three, or a prehensile tail to help. And can do it without banging the swab into the wall or table.
What?! I've done plenty of COVID tests with the chin strap mask position using the crappy blue masks from Amazon. It's easy. Lower mask over chin, take nasal swab, raise mask back above nostrils, give swab to test person through car window. It's really not difficult at all.
Once again, the reason this is an issue is because of all the stupid rules Starmer voted through, not because he slipped up. We all did from time to time. He presents this holier than thou image of being some kind of lockdown and rule abiding person but really he's as fallible as the rest of us. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't in favour of lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Honestly, if it were up to him I wouldn't be surprised to see some COVID measures come back.
Keir was consistently wrong on Covid. I don’t see why that justifies a witch-hunt against him.
The actual reason this story exists at all is that Boris was desperate to find something which would provoke voters into thinking “they’re all the same”.
Maybe it’s worked, I don’t know. But it’s a disgraceful spectacle.
It's because he was consistently wrong on COVID that he deserves everything coming to him. If he's mustered some ability to tell the government "no" his beer and curry wouldn't have potentially fallen foul of the ridiculous rules.
He opened pandora's box of COVID rules alongside Boris. He's in the special category of arsehole just the same where any minor infraction of the law or even guidance means it's a resigning issue. I've said plenty of times that Boris should have resigned once the party stuff came out, that the MPs should remove him, that his position is untenable, I quit the Tory party when Dom went for his joyride through Durham. I am very consistent on this position - those who make the rules can't break them. Keir Starmer voted in favour of the second lockdown, he voted in favour of the government extending it, he voted in favour of all the idiotic rules. All while there was enough opposition within Tory ranks to force the government to back down. He is as responsible for the lamentable state of affairs we had from February to May.
As I've said plenty of times today - the best outcome is Starmer being forced to resign and bringing Boris down with him. Neither are fit to be PM and clearly think the rules are for the little people. His tawdry actions today to try and force the Durham police into a corner of clearing him shows, once again, that he is unfit to be PM, it's a move worthy of Boris.
But he didn’t break the rules. I too want Keir gone, I don’t think he is up to it. But not on trumped up charges.
How do you know he didn't break the rules? I'm not even sure what the rules were. Beers and a curry with people from outside your household until late into the night doesn't sound as though it was allowed, though the specific rules were fairly vague at the time and not easy to understand.
You are very certain he didn't break the rules, why? Because he's said he didn't? Rishi said he didn't break the rules and he still got a FPN. Rishi, despite everything, doesn't strike me as a party animal or someone who would simply cover up his own known wrongdoing by lying about it. Just because Starmer doesn't think he broke the rules it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't.
Obviously I’m not in a position to say Keir didn’t break any rules. Unlike some other posters, I don’t rifle through his rubbish bins.
I don’t really understand why Sunak (or even Boris) for an FPN for cake-gate. I assume we don’t know all the facts.
Regarding Durham, I always viewed it as working “curry” just like I’ve had to put on a hundred times for developers working late, and so I’ve never understood at all how it could be considered a breach under any reasonable test.
Yeah, but that's not during COVID. That's the confounding factor you're not taking into account. This was, from what's been made public, essentially an opportunity for local volunteers to mingle with the leadership and be made to feel important for the day. I've been to plenty of those events where some Cabinet minister will grace the room with their moronic presence, chat and try and pretend they don't think everyone else in the room is loathsome. That they got it at the end of the day and got drinks in is pretty telling, the eyewitness account from the (likely) Corbyn supporter was also pretty damning.
On people getting a FPN for "ambushed with a cake" - it's because the rules were completely ridiculous, no more no less. It made me pretty happy to see those wankers get done after they introduced all these rules just as I'm happy to see Starmer get done now because he was a huge part of that once the Tory MPs had decided to rebel.
Happily we're now past that time when the government decided it would be in charge of every aspect of our lives, yet I'd like to see many more people who supported lockdowns and all the other bullshit be hounded out of public life.
Having a beer and takeaway curry with the campaign staff shows a human side that he has struggled with.
I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
That's the other interesting thing about Starmer's move.
In lots of ways, it was unavoidable. But it's also him putting his dangly bits on the line to defend his honour, which is more human than most of his actions.
(It's also that thing Bozza never quite carries through on, preferring to hide in a fridge instead.)
Very, very easy. The biggest medical exemption of all.
Ever tried testing yourself when wearing a mask?
1. Mask off and in pocket (or invisible in left hand, here) 2. swab 3. Hand swab to nice lady 4. Mask back on.
This is clearly stage 3 (eyes watering as well).
Indeed. Pretty hard to swab with mask on Technically possible to get mask on one-handed while holding sample in other hand (increased risk of contamination while faffing about). But certainly I never did that (we had a testing centre at uni quite early on, required for any office access).
Simple, lower the mask below the nose/mouth, take the test, put it back. All with one hand!
Doesn't work for the kind of disposable mask with loops over the ears.
Huh? Yes it does, in fact it's probably even easier with the disposable ones because the loops are stretchy. You can just pull it down below your chin.
Not in the ones I get from a specialist chemist firm and see in doctors etc.
Different kind of disposable mask, no doubt. I don't agree with you that it is impossible to do one-handed though.
I can assure you that that is the case. UNless you have a spare tentacle or three, or a prehensile tail to help. And can do it without banging the swab into the wall or table.
What?! I've done plenty of COVID tests with the chin strap mask position using the crappy blue masks from Amazon. It's easy. Lower mask over chin, take nasal swab, raise mask back above nostrils, give swab to test person through car window. It's really not difficult at all.
Once again, the reason this is an issue is because of all the stupid rules Starmer voted through, not because he slipped up. We all did from time to time. He presents this holier than thou image of being some kind of lockdown and rule abiding person but really he's as fallible as the rest of us. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't in favour of lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Honestly, if it were up to him I wouldn't be surprised to see some COVID measures come back.
Keir was consistently wrong on Covid. I don’t see why that justifies a witch-hunt against him.
The actual reason this story exists at all is that Boris was desperate to find something which would provoke voters into thinking “they’re all the same”.
Maybe it’s worked, I don’t know. But it’s a disgraceful spectacle.
It's because he was consistently wrong on COVID that he deserves everything coming to him. If he's mustered some ability to tell the government "no" his beer and curry wouldn't have potentially fallen foul of the ridiculous rules.
He opened pandora's box of COVID rules alongside Boris. He's in the special category of arsehole just the same where any minor infraction of the law or even guidance means it's a resigning issue. I've said plenty of times that Boris should have resigned once the party stuff came out, that the MPs should remove him, that his position is untenable, I quit the Tory party when Dom went for his joyride through Durham. I am very consistent on this position - those who make the rules can't break them. Keir Starmer voted in favour of the second lockdown, he voted in favour of the government extending it, he voted in favour of all the idiotic rules. All while there was enough opposition within Tory ranks to force the government to back down. He is as responsible for the lamentable state of affairs we had from February to May.
As I've said plenty of times today - the best outcome is Starmer being forced to resign and bringing Boris down with him. Neither are fit to be PM and clearly think the rules are for the little people. His tawdry actions today to try and force the Durham police into a corner of clearing him shows, once again, that he is unfit to be PM, it's a move worthy of Boris.
But he didn’t break the rules. I too want Keir gone, I don’t think he is up to it. But not on trumped up charges.
How do you know he didn't break the rules? I'm not even sure what the rules were. Beers and a curry with people from outside your household until late into the night doesn't sound as though it was allowed, though the specific rules were fairly vague at the time and not easy to understand.
You are very certain he didn't break the rules, why? Because he's said he didn't? Rishi said he didn't break the rules and he still got a FPN. Rishi, despite everything, doesn't strike me as a party animal or someone who would simply cover up his own known wrongdoing by lying about it. Just because Starmer doesn't think he broke the rules it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't.
Obviously I’m not in a position to say Keir didn’t break any rules. Unlike some other posters, I don’t rifle through his rubbish bins.
I don’t really understand why Sunak (or even Boris) for an FPN for cake-gate. I assume we don’t know all the facts.
Regarding Durham, I always viewed it as working “curry” just like I’ve had to put on a hundred times for developers working late, and so I’ve never understood at all how it could be considered a breach under any reasonable test.
Yeah, but that's not during COVID. That's the confounding factor you're not taking into account. This was, from what's been made public, essentially an opportunity for local volunteers to mingle with the leadership and be made to feel important for the day. I've been to plenty of those events where some Cabinet minister will grace the room with their moronic presence, chat and try and pretend they don't think everyone else in the room is loathsome. That they got it at the end of the day and got drinks in is pretty telling, the eyewitness account from the (likely) Corbyn supporter was also pretty damning.
On people getting a FPN for "ambushed with a cake" - it's because the rules were completely ridiculous, no more no less. It made me pretty happy to see those wankers get done after they introduced all these rules just as I'm happy to see Starmer get done now because he was a huge part of that once the Tory MPs had decided to rebel.
Happily we're now past that time when the government decided it would be in charge of every aspect of our lives, yet I'd like to see many more people who supported lockdowns and all the other bullshit be hounded out of public life.
Wasn't it somehow connected with the Hartlepool by-election (which they lost) and not just a royal visit to a few activists?
Having a beer and takeaway curry with the campaign staff shows a human side that he has struggled with.
I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
That's the other interesting thing about Starmer's move.
In lots of ways, it was unavoidable. But it's also him putting his dangly bits on the line to defend his honour, which is more human than most of his actions.
(It's also that thing Bozza never quite carries through on, preferring to hide in a fridge instead.)
Yes, most unfair of Starmer not to try to brazen it out like the lascivious limpet in No.10.
I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.
Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
I guess if the papers have been sitting on any other related stories or extra Durham info they'll bring it forward for tomorrows papers given today's statement. So hurdle one for SKS is tomorrow's headlines
I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.
Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
Don't forget that assessing whether there was enough evidence to prosecute was literally Starmer's day job.
On the previous thread, you said that Corbyn lost of VoNC and was forced to resign, but allowed to stand in the subsequent leadership election.
That is incorrect. VoNC are not binding on Labour or part of their rule book.
He lost, refused to resign, and was challenged in a leadership election where he was held, as the incumbent leader, to be entitled to stand without being renominated. This was an important point as he could not have got the necessary number of nominations.
I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.
Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
Don't forget that assessing whether there was enough evidence to prosecute was literally Starmer's day job.
Wasn’t it (in the case of Jimmy Savile) explicitly NOT his day job, as he was merely the manager of those who made such decisions?
I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.
Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
I know that's been put around by right wing commentators, but it doesn't really make sense as an argument.
When Police investigate a public figure, they already know that a decision to charge, or to issue a FPN, is likely to have significant political consequences. It makes very little difference whether that consequence is that they WILL resign, or that they will be under very substantial pressure to go.
There’s Matt Pritchett - and then there’s all the other cartoonists, some way behind.
According to Private Eye, he’s on 650k, comfortably more than the editor.
Yes. He gets paid more than the editor, has a lot of time off and some quite ridiculous perks.
He also has standing offers from the Mail and the Sun, and the publisher has made it clear to the editor that losing Matt would be a resigning issue for the latter. Despite the fact that his content is available free, pretty much everywhere, several hours before it appears in the paper itself.
In other words, it’s the free market at work, and he deserves every penny of it.
If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.
But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.
Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢
Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
There’s a massive difference between the Great British Public, and the posters to this blog.
Robert’s right on the main point, most people pay no attention to politics outside the general election cycle.
Yes, Boris's allies will certainly attempt to frame it as 'Poor old Boris just had a nibble of birthday cake whereas Labour's hypocritical lying Remoaner leadership were forced to quit in disgrace'. But they'll do something similar even if Sir Keir is completely cleared, so Sir Keir may as well go down in a blaze of glory.
Very, very easy. The biggest medical exemption of all.
Ever tried testing yourself when wearing a mask?
1. Mask off and in pocket (or invisible in left hand, here) 2. swab 3. Hand swab to nice lady 4. Mask back on.
This is clearly stage 3 (eyes watering as well).
Indeed. Pretty hard to swab with mask on Technically possible to get mask on one-handed while holding sample in other hand (increased risk of contamination while faffing about). But certainly I never did that (we had a testing centre at uni quite early on, required for any office access).
Simple, lower the mask below the nose/mouth, take the test, put it back. All with one hand!
Doesn't work for the kind of disposable mask with loops over the ears.
Huh? Yes it does, in fact it's probably even easier with the disposable ones because the loops are stretchy. You can just pull it down below your chin.
Not in the ones I get from a specialist chemist firm and see in doctors etc.
Different kind of disposable mask, no doubt. I don't agree with you that it is impossible to do one-handed though.
I can assure you that that is the case. UNless you have a spare tentacle or three, or a prehensile tail to help. And can do it without banging the swab into the wall or table.
What?! I've done plenty of COVID tests with the chin strap mask position using the crappy blue masks from Amazon. It's easy. Lower mask over chin, take nasal swab, raise mask back above nostrils, give swab to test person through car window. It's really not difficult at all.
Once again, the reason this is an issue is because of all the stupid rules Starmer voted through, not because he slipped up. We all did from time to time. He presents this holier than thou image of being some kind of lockdown and rule abiding person but really he's as fallible as the rest of us. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't in favour of lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Honestly, if it were up to him I wouldn't be surprised to see some COVID measures come back.
Keir was consistently wrong on Covid. I don’t see why that justifies a witch-hunt against him.
The actual reason this story exists at all is that Boris was desperate to find something which would provoke voters into thinking “they’re all the same”.
Maybe it’s worked, I don’t know. But it’s a disgraceful spectacle.
It's because he was consistently wrong on COVID that he deserves everything coming to him. If he's mustered some ability to tell the government "no" his beer and curry wouldn't have potentially fallen foul of the ridiculous rules.
He opened pandora's box of COVID rules alongside Boris. He's in the special category of arsehole just the same where any minor infraction of the law or even guidance means it's a resigning issue. I've said plenty of times that Boris should have resigned once the party stuff came out, that the MPs should remove him, that his position is untenable, I quit the Tory party when Dom went for his joyride through Durham. I am very consistent on this position - those who make the rules can't break them. Keir Starmer voted in favour of the second lockdown, he voted in favour of the government extending it, he voted in favour of all the idiotic rules. All while there was enough opposition within Tory ranks to force the government to back down. He is as responsible for the lamentable state of affairs we had from February to May.
As I've said plenty of times today - the best outcome is Starmer being forced to resign and bringing Boris down with him. Neither are fit to be PM and clearly think the rules are for the little people. His tawdry actions today to try and force the Durham police into a corner of clearing him shows, once again, that he is unfit to be PM, it's a move worthy of Boris.
But he didn’t break the rules. I too want Keir gone, I don’t think he is up to it. But not on trumped up charges.
How do you know he didn't break the rules? I'm not even sure what the rules were. Beers and a curry with people from outside your household until late into the night doesn't sound as though it was allowed, though the specific rules were fairly vague at the time and not easy to understand.
You are very certain he didn't break the rules, why? Because he's said he didn't? Rishi said he didn't break the rules and he still got a FPN. Rishi, despite everything, doesn't strike me as a party animal or someone who would simply cover up his own known wrongdoing by lying about it. Just because Starmer doesn't think he broke the rules it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't.
Obviously I’m not in a position to say Keir didn’t break any rules. Unlike some other posters, I don’t rifle through his rubbish bins.
I don’t really understand why Sunak (or even Boris) for an FPN for cake-gate. I assume we don’t know all the facts.
Regarding Durham, I always viewed it as working “curry” just like I’ve had to put on a hundred times for developers working late, and so I’ve never understood at all how it could be considered a breach under any reasonable test.
I've been to plenty of those events where some Cabinet minister will grace the room with their moronic presence, chat and try and pretend they don't think everyone else in the room is loathsome.
Have you ever considered that such a party may not be worth supporting?
Back in 1997, when I was New Labour, I met several of the then Shadow Cabinet, and they seemed very happy to chat and meet activists on the ground.
Similarly, When I have been at Lib Dem meetings I have socialised with some well known names, and once again they were charming and keen to listen.
As the UK disappears to contemplate its own political navel once more, the rest of the planet wonders when London is going to get serious. Personally, from a pretty neutral perspective, I see the attack on Starmer as a cynical smear, and the response he has made a) calls their bluff and b) puts the heat back on Bojo.
Meanwhile away from clownland: the Putin speech may have seemed a whole load of nothing, but this perhaps reveals more than intended. Conscription papers have certainly been going out, even though no announcement has been made. UK based Russian schoolboys, for example, are definitely being called up. The regime has to find a way of getting more troops into the field, and this is the only realistic thing they can do. On the other hand any official announcement could trigger the kind of protests that knock the Putinists out, so clearly they may be trying to do this stealthily. A big question as to whether this works and indicates that the regime really is under serious pressure and possibly divided. The speech the dictator ended up making was possibly the result of being designed by a commitee that is sharply at odds.
The Russians are also going all in now in the Donbas, before the growing advantage Ukraine has in kit becomes decisive. The next two weeks are critical.
Here in Estonia, there are now nearly 40,000 refugees from Ukraine, There is really very little room left and it does make the UK response look pretty pathetic. Likewise the Estonians are donating money and equipment on a scale that is truly humbling. Support for the PM has rocketed and there is pride that she has had such a high profile across the world. Estonian support for Ukraine is not hedged in any way, it is total. I may add that this applies to Latvia, Lithuania and Poland too. In Finland support for joining NATO is now overwhelming.
Interesting numbers about Russian emigration. It now seems that over 2 million Russians have left since February 24th. Needless to say these are the brightest and the best (and most mobile). With things the way they are, it is hard to when, if ever these people ever go back. There are certainly as many RUS registered vehicles in Tallinn now as UA ones. I guess the twenty first century equivalent of princes driving taxis in Paris after the Revolution, will be Russian data scientists becoming accountants in Dubai.
I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.
I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.
That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
I'm starting to think Sir Keir has played a blinder. The stuff about the FPNs was unnecessary - Sir Keir should have just stated he'd be going if found in breach, fine or no - but he certainly seems to have risen above the riff-raff. As Andrew Marr once (almost) said: it would be entirely ungracious, even for his critics, not to acknowledge that tonight he stands as a larger man, and a stronger leader, as a result.
Except for the theory that it could be a bluff to radically raise the costs of police taking any action against him.
Don't forget that assessing whether there was enough evidence to prosecute was literally Starmer's day job.
He didnt really do littering level offences though. Below his pay grade. I mean there is enough to fine him if they want to, they just have to say that the meal was not necessary for work purposes or that the primary purpose appears to have been social.
If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.
Yes, I suggested the same. People not paying a huge amount of notice would conclude that a greater punishment followed a greater crime.
“The PM accepted a technical breach of the rules happened in his case, in a busy and confused environment where his office met his home. The PM has a clear conscience and is now getting on with the job, having reformed the leadership team in Number 10. You will have to ask Sir Keir about this drinking session away from his office and why he felt he had to resign”.
Something like that. The Tories will try and brazen it out.
I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.
I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.
That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
Aren't they the force who made the Dominic Cummings decision?
"The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."
Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
It wouldn't be breaking it at all - she'd still be willing to serve, if she can, just not physically capable. Rather than no longer willing or able, under abdication.
"The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."
Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
People do sometimes get a bit wild after the loss of a spouse...
"The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."
Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.
I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.
That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
Aren't they the force who made the Dominic Cummings decision?
"The Queen has opened every session of parliament since her accession in 1952, except in 1959 and 1963 when she was pregnant with Prince Andrew and Prince Edward respectively."
Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
People do sometimes get a bit wild after the loss of a spouse...
And she has been spending a lot of time with a renowned womaniser.... Hmm...
There’s Matt Pritchett - and then there’s all the other cartoonists, some way behind.
According to Private Eye, he’s on 650k, comfortably more than the editor.
Yes. He gets paid more than the editor, has a lot of time off and some quite ridiculous perks.
He also has standing offers from the Mail and the Sun, and the publisher has made it clear to the editor that losing Matt would be a resigning issue for the latter. Despite the fact that his content is available free, pretty much everywhere, several hours before it appears in the paper itself.
In other words, it’s the free market at work, and he deserves every penny of it.
Yup. He could probably even make the same or more on patreon. He is THE cartoonist of his day and boosts their brand.
I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.
I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
Not if The Starminator has anything to do with it, is the message, the attack line here.
Two weeks ago Starmer was weak and waffley, now thanks to a special operation by the Tory Party and the Daily Mail, he is The Starminator, the police mere putty in his hands?
I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?
There is hope. Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.
We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.
Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
Or just scrap the monarchy.
I think she's been amazing and I have great respect for her, despite some mistakes, but the institution is past its sell by date.
Have you seen the mess that can be made when our divided political class and public seek to grapple with matters of major constitutional change? Muddling along with the monarchy as an institution is a small price to pay to avoid the aggravation of deciding upon a replacement system.
I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?
There is hope. Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.
We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.
I think SKS survives and carries on without FPN, but if not then the party will not be going back to Corbynism, but building on what Starmer has done.
If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.
I doubt he thinks that. He's in a situation where there is at least the possibility he will face the same punishment as the PM, he has little option but to set out his stall on how he is different. It won't force Boris's hand, but the least he can do is be clear on his own position.
Comments
After 'Save Big Dog', we get 'Save Little Dog'.
edit - No! It's part of OGH's fight back!
That will be interesting. I suspect they shouldn't appoint anyone who is planning to run. So some elder statesman/woman? Marge Beckett once again?
One in five say they've heard a lot about a fictional Covid-scandal, where Ed Davey broke the rules to go hiking.
#Hikegate
#Beergate
#Partygate https://t.co/y526RkTX3i
https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705506371579904?t=b1LDwxxHHfLp_gPnpN4sow&s=19
“Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:
https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/
I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.
Maybe the public are totally turned off by all this crap when they have way more important things to worry about, that don’t seem to affect the six-figure salaries working in SW1.
I am far from convinced in the tory posters saying Sir Keir thinks he's in the clear.
On the contrary, I think Keir is prepared to fall on his sword to a) pile pressure on Johnson and b) propel Labour to victory at the GE.
Unlike Boris, Keir Starmer would rather sacrifice himself for his party's success.
Or as my 11 year old says when I crack a gag:
Not funny. Didn't laugh.
https://twitter.com/ArkadyOstrovsky/status/1523579920295018496
I am sure he is a fine guy, but he really isn't good at retail politics. He needs that human touch.
On people getting a FPN for "ambushed with a cake" - it's because the rules were completely ridiculous, no more no less. It made me pretty happy to see those wankers get done after they introduced all these rules just as I'm happy to see Starmer get done now because he was a huge part of that once the Tory MPs had decided to rebel.
Happily we're now past that time when the government decided it would be in charge of every aspect of our lives, yet I'd like to see many more people who supported lockdowns and all the other bullshit be hounded out of public life.
https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1523649257349140481
our PM on the right
In lots of ways, it was unavoidable. But it's also him putting his dangly bits on the line to defend his honour, which is more human than most of his actions.
(It's also that thing Bozza never quite carries through on, preferring to hide in a fridge instead.)
Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢
Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
Robert’s right on the main point, most people pay no attention to politics outside the general election cycle.
On the previous thread, you said that Corbyn lost of VoNC and was forced to resign, but allowed to stand in the subsequent leadership election.
That is incorrect. VoNC are not binding on Labour or part of their rule book.
He lost, refused to resign, and was challenged in a leadership election where he was held, as the incumbent leader, to be entitled to stand without being renominated. This was an important point as he could not have got the necessary number of nominations.
And he won easily.
When Police investigate a public figure, they already know that a decision to charge, or to issue a FPN, is likely to have significant political consequences. It makes very little difference whether that consequence is that they WILL resign, or that they will be under very substantial pressure to go.
This pledgegate thing is hilarious
He also has standing offers from the Mail and the Sun, and the publisher has made it clear to the editor that losing Matt would be a resigning issue for the latter. Despite the fact that his content is available free, pretty much everywhere, several hours before it appears in the paper itself.
In other words, it’s the free market at work, and he deserves every penny of it.
Edit - just seen this - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/09/queen-to-miss-state-opening-of-parliament-says-buckingham-palace
Back in 1997, when I was New Labour, I met several of the then Shadow Cabinet, and they seemed very happy to chat and meet activists on the ground.
Similarly, When I have been at Lib Dem meetings I have socialised with some well known names, and once again they were charming and keen to listen.
Meanwhile away from clownland: the Putin speech may have seemed a whole load of nothing, but this perhaps reveals more than intended. Conscription papers have certainly been going out, even though no announcement has been made. UK based Russian schoolboys, for example, are definitely being called up. The regime has to find a way of getting more troops into the field, and this is the only realistic thing they can do. On the other hand any official announcement could trigger the kind of protests that knock the Putinists out, so clearly they may be trying to do this stealthily. A big question as to whether this works and indicates that the regime really is under serious pressure and possibly divided. The speech the dictator ended up making was possibly the result of being designed by a commitee that is sharply at odds.
The Russians are also going all in now in the Donbas, before the growing advantage Ukraine has in kit becomes decisive. The next two weeks are critical.
Here in Estonia, there are now nearly 40,000 refugees from Ukraine, There is really very little room left and it does make the UK response look pretty pathetic. Likewise the Estonians are donating money and equipment on a scale that is truly humbling. Support for the PM has rocketed and there is pride that she has had such a high profile across the world. Estonian support for Ukraine is not hedged in any way, it is total. I may add that this applies to Latvia, Lithuania and Poland too. In Finland support for joining NATO is now overwhelming.
Interesting numbers about Russian emigration. It now seems that over 2 million Russians have left since February 24th. Needless to say these are the brightest and the best (and most mobile). With things the way they are, it is hard to when, if ever these people ever go back. There are certainly as many RUS registered vehicles in Tallinn now as UA ones. I guess the twenty first century equivalent of princes driving taxis in Paris after the Revolution, will be Russian data scientists becoming accountants in Dubai.
That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
I admire the lengths some are going to in here to try and mitigate the horrible realization that Johnson is fxcked whatever happens .
I mean there is enough to fine him if they want to, they just have to say that the meal was not necessary for work purposes or that the primary purpose appears to have been social.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/09/revealed-student-ivo-delingpole-james-breitbart-beergate-video-that-threatens-to-sink-starmer
Things aren't too good, are they?
Something like that. The Tories will try and brazen it out.
Loyally hoping that HM is expecting a late blessing. After one of them 14 month pregnancies. Hoorah!
I think she's been amazing and I have great respect for her, despite some mistakes, but the institution is past its sell by date.
Two weeks ago Starmer was weak and waffley, now thanks to a special operation by the Tory Party and the Daily Mail, he is The Starminator, the police mere putty in his hands?
We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.
That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
I’m about to sell property and hold the cash, even with inflation.