Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Starmer’s approval rating no change at -2% – politicalbetting.com

245678

Comments

  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    He doesn't have to. If he goes and Johnson stays, it really will finish off the tories at the GE, especially under a new Labour leader.

    That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    I think SKS survives and carries on without FPN, but if not then the party will not be going back to Corbynism, but building on what Starmer has done.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    I doubt he thinks that. He's in a situation where there is at least the possibility he will face the same punishment as the PM, he has little option but to set out his stall on how he is different. It won't force Boris's hand, but the least he can do is be clear on his own position.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited May 2022
    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.

    I’m about to sell property and hold the cash, even with inflation.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    Am enjoying small swig of Akvavit in celebration of Danish minority party out-performing AfD in Schleswig-Holstein.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,610
    edited May 2022
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    He doesn't have to. If he goes and Johnson stays, it really will finish off the tories at the GE, especially under a new Labour leader.

    That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
    I'm not convinced it will work. The fact Labour supporters think it will doesn't prove anything.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    He doesn't have to. If he goes and Johnson stays, it really will finish off the tories at the GE, especially under a new Labour leader.

    That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
    I'm reminded of the prominent Tory MP and former army officer who allegedly set up his platoon in ambush position on a jungle path, deployed not as the approved L, but an U.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding. There is scope for a compromise candidates from the centre but who is willing to let Corbyn back in. Now I don't care about that from a Labour point of view, they can self destruct all they like if they want, but I fear it'll shore up Boris if it happens. We just need someone sensible in charge of both main parties and it feels like we're so damn close.

    Hmmm an election now would probably fix everything.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,374

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    I think its more likely after today. If Starmer gets a FPN, Boris won't be able to survive (especially if he gets some penalty points on his licence).
    By what mechanism does Boris fall if Starmer does the right thing? Shame? Honour? Boris?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Am enjoying small swig of Akvavit in celebration of Danish minority party out-performing AfD in Schleswig-Holstein.

    That’s a post that raises questions.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,059
    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
    Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
    Or just scrap the monarchy.

    I think she's been amazing and I have great respect for her, despite some mistakes, but the institution is past its sell by date.
    Have you seen the mess that can be made when our divided political class and public seek to grapple with matters of major constitutional change? Muddling along with the monarchy as an institution is a small price to pay to avoid the aggravation of deciding upon a replacement system.
    The risk of someone instantly making himself president for life and emperor, like Nap III.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    edited May 2022
    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    Switch politics off and on again.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Am enjoying small swig of Akvavit in celebration of Danish minority party out-performing AfD in Schleswig-Holstein.

    It's Aalborg you want. Tastes a bit like Brennevin, but slightly harsher. Wakes you up and puts hairs on your hairs.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
    And the First World War was going to be over by Christmas...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    Yes, the total waste of time will cling on like the mendacious mollusc he is.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,803
    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    That’s not why he’s done this . It’s to make the comparison between himself and Johnson in the eyes of voters and at the same time protecting the Labour Party if he has to resign .

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    I presume Harry and Meghan have a miniseries ready to air.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    edited May 2022
    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    To adopt MarqueeMark's suggestion for a different field, it will switch the concept of royalty in the UK off and on again.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    Settling for victory in Holland then?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,445

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    Yes, I suggested the same. People not paying a huge amount of notice would conclude that a greater punishment followed a greater crime.
    For people not paying a lot of attention - and God knows I'm not, any more; the whole thing is laughably tedious - one man had a beer and a curry, the other had a birthday cake. As covid recedes into the distance and we, surprisingly quickly (just as @Leon suggested we would) forget about it, the whole thing looks petty and silly - but if the uninterested and disinterested observer were to take a view, he would probably conclude that the beer and the curry is the bigger sin.
    I'd quite like them both to go. Not because the offences merit it, but Boris, because he was responsible for the rules, SKS because he lost no opportunity to call for tougher rules. Boris bears more responsibility because he was responsible for the rules, but SKS deserves it more for the masochistic glee with which he demanded more lockdowns. At least Boris appeared to find lockdowns at least a little regrettable.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    I think its more likely after today. If Starmer gets a FPN, Boris won't be able to survive (especially if he gets some penalty points on his licence).
    By what mechanism does Boris fall if Starmer does the right thing? Shame? Honour? Boris?
    Johnson survives until his MPs or the electorate decide he's not going to survive. Johnson is never going under his own steam. My view is that it is the electorate that will eventually decide it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
    And the First World War was going to be over by Christmas...
    The war may be back to being cold by the autumn I suppose, if a 'ceasefire' is agreed. Outright victory for either side appears out of sight, not least since I bet most allies wouldn't help Ukraine counterattack too much - Putin might reach for the big bombs then.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    mwadams said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    I think its more likely after today. If Starmer gets a FPN, Boris won't be able to survive (especially if he gets some penalty points on his licence).
    By what mechanism does Boris fall if Starmer does the right thing? Shame? Honour? Boris?
    Johnson survives until his MPs or the electorate decide he's not going to survive. Johnson is never going under his own steam. My view is that it is the electorate that will eventually decide it.
    Agreed.

    And this is why you should all be betting on next PM from the current Labour pool. Huge value to be had.
  • Options
    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    Politico.com - Conservative media outlets are reporting, citing "rumors around D.C.," that Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito and his family had to seek shelter at an undisclosed location following POLITICO's publishing of a draft opinion on abortion rights that he wrote. We caught up with the source of those reports, whose information is suspect at best.

    The reports seem to be fueled by comments from conservative lawyer and author Ilya Shapiro, who said on a Saturday Fox News program that he “heard that Justice Alito has been taken to an undisclosed location with his family.”

    Shapiro told POLITICO Monday that he was unsure whether that was, in fact, true. “I don’t have any non-public sources,” he said. “I forget whether I saw the rumor on Twitter or somebody told me. I don’t know.”

    Conservatives seized on the report regardless. . . . .

    https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/05-9-2022/scotus-security/

  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view:

    If Starmer resigns and Johnson does not, then the Great British public will assume that Starmer's offence was the more serious.

    But you don’t think that do you. I don’t think that. I don’t think any poster to this blog would think that.

    Oh Robert. Your post is very close to taking the Great British public for fools 🫢

    Bad Bob. Baaaaaaaad.
    There’s a massive difference between the Great British Public, and the posters to this blog.

    Robert’s right on the main point, most people pay no attention to politics outside the general election cycle.
    I'm not sure that's quite true. They may not formulate opinions about issues or political parties between elections, but I think many follow it as a kind of soap opera for ugly people.

    That's why personal stuff like Partygate/Beergate can have such cutthrough, while much more important stuff about the economy, public services or the environment barely registers.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    This has also skewered Angela Rayner. So politically it's a win-win for Labour.

    I mean, I actually quite like her but she would be an utter disaster as leader. She really would be turning back in the wrong direction.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Her decades long career as an underground cage fighter known as the silver tsunami?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006
    Sandpit said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    I never swear on here, but fuck him, fuck his mother, and fuck the horse on which he rode in.

    If Germany wants to lead the EU, they need to put on their big boys’ pants and take out the enemy.
    How do you believe the war should end?
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    edited May 2022
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Not really. I'm afraid Labour absolutely MUST and WILL chose a female leader. It's Labour's huge Achilles heel.

    And I don't think getting a lecture from any man on why this is unfair is gonna wash.

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
  • Options
    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    I never swear on here, but fuck him, fuck his mother, and fuck the horse on which he rode in.

    If Germany wants to lead the EU, they need to put on their big boys’ pants and take out the enemy.
    How do you believe the war should end?
    Russia losing, Donbas liberated, Crimea liberated, Putin has an accident and Russia offers compensation for the aggression.

    How do you believe it should?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Brenda won't attend parliament tomorrow.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Ooh, get you. Your time of the month?
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006

    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    I never swear on here, but fuck him, fuck his mother, and fuck the horse on which he rode in.

    If Germany wants to lead the EU, they need to put on their big boys’ pants and take out the enemy.
    How do you believe the war should end?
    Russia losing, Donbas liberated, Crimea liberated, Putin has an accident and Russia offers compensation for the aggression.

    How do you believe it should?
    As you said, a settlement.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,611
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
    And the First World War was going to be over by Christmas...
    Russia cannot sustain the war at the current consumption rate of men and material. A battle of attrition goes Ukraines way, albeit at great cost. Stalemate by Autumn is the best he can hope for, but the defeat in Kharkiv oblast this week threatens their Donbas offensive, and I think then Ukraine liberates Kherson oblast.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,185
    Heathener said:

    Oh dear, The Queen is to miss the State Opening of Parliament.

    Things aren't too good, are they? :(

    Sadly I suspect not. Not much hope of it getting better either.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Well here's a starter, not that you appear the sort who will be persuaded especially by someone who at the last time of reckoning still reckoned I was a Muscovite troll.

    She has been the figurehead of the institution for 70 yrs. During that time some significant events have happened. The true facts behind some of those events have been quashed to this day. A lot of that is out of respect for her.

    When she goes all hell will break loose. There are far too many wild horses inside the paddock. And there are journalists itching to tell more.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    He doesn't have to. If he goes and Johnson stays, it really will finish off the tories at the GE, especially under a new Labour leader.

    That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
    I'm not convinced it will work. The fact Labour supporters think it will doesn't prove anything.
    What do you think happens to what’s left of Boris ratings, if Starmer falls on his sword the moment he gets a FPN for beergate, and Boris clings on? What happens to the Tory polling figures for letting him carry on? Boris fate is now 100% tied to Starmer getting a FPN for Beergate, the impact of a principled resignation from Starmer and Boris clinging on will have on polling forces either Boris hand or the hand of his Party assassins.

    If Starmer is exonerated by a police investigation, the Tories still have two problems, what to do with Boris if he gets further FPNs for further “now that’s what I call a proper party” and Gray publishes photos - the media love photos -,plus the fact beergate, currygate was more fun (though polling apparently says utterly ineffective) when it was nudge nudge, here’s the menu, here’s the calling notice is that red ang through the window? but does being cleared leave Starmer in a stronger position, and beergate dead?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Not really. I'm afraid Labour absolutely MUST and WILL chose a female leader. It's Labour's huge Achilles heel.

    And I don't think getting a lecture from any man on why this is unfair is gonna wash.

    I didn't say it was unfair, I said it was sexist.
    If you're happy to embrace discrimination for the greater good (the greater good) then be open about it. Some people would agree.
    But your post was about your perceptions of their qualities. And it seems that Streeting doesn't quite measure up because he's male. I can't see another way to read your post.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    He doesn't have to. If he goes and Johnson stays, it really will finish off the tories at the GE, especially under a new Labour leader.

    That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
    I'm reminded of the prominent Tory MP and former army officer who allegedly set up his platoon in ambush position on a jungle path, deployed not as the approved L, but an U.
    Like this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpbv4oCv100

    Marred only by De Niro's inability to pronounce "Hereford" properly
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    Appeasement seems to come very easily for Germans.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Politico.com - Conservative media outlets are reporting, citing "rumors around D.C.," that Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito and his family had to seek shelter at an undisclosed location following POLITICO's publishing of a draft opinion on abortion rights that he wrote. We caught up with the source of those reports, whose information is suspect at best.

    The reports seem to be fueled by comments from conservative lawyer and author Ilya Shapiro, who said on a Saturday Fox News program that he “heard that Justice Alito has been taken to an undisclosed location with his family.”

    Shapiro told POLITICO Monday that he was unsure whether that was, in fact, true. “I don’t have any non-public sources,” he said. “I forget whether I saw the rumor on Twitter or somebody told me. I don’t know.”

    Conservatives seized on the report regardless. . . . .

    https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/05-9-2022/scotus-security/

    They perhaps have him confused with Christine Blasey Ford ?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
    And the First World War was going to be over by Christmas...
    Russia cannot sustain the war at the current consumption rate of men and material. A battle of attrition goes Ukraines way, albeit at great cost. Stalemate by Autumn is the best he can hope for, but the defeat in Kharkiv oblast this week threatens their Donbas offensive, and I think then Ukraine liberates Kherson oblast.
    But the war itself isn’t really a problem for markets, is it? The sanctions won’t be going away anytime soon.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    edited May 2022
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Not really. I'm afraid Labour absolutely MUST and WILL chose a female leader. It's Labour's huge Achilles heel.

    And I don't think getting a lecture from any man on why this is unfair is gonna wash.

    I didn't say it was unfair, I said it was sexist.
    If you're happy to embrace discrimination for the greater good (the greater good) then be open about it. Some people would agree.
    But your post was about your perceptions of their qualities. And it seems that Streeting doesn't quite measure up because he's male. I can't see another way to read your post.
    I never countered about being unfair.

    I said it has to be a woman. I don't give a flying fig if you don't like that or think it's sexist or mean or lacking in fairness.

    The next Labour leader cannot be a man. We have to have a woman.

    And there we shall leave it. There's no point going round in circles. You don't like positive discrimination. I get it. But on this occasion it's tough shit.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    And I call for the chief of Volkswagen to be put in the stocks and have rotten vegetables throne at him until the Ukrainians declare final victory.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
    And the First World War was going to be over by Christmas...
    Russia cannot sustain the war at the current consumption rate of men and material. A battle of attrition goes Ukraines way, albeit at great cost. Stalemate by Autumn is the best he can hope for, but the defeat in Kharkiv oblast this week threatens their Donbas offensive, and I think then Ukraine liberates Kherson oblast.
    But the war itself isn’t really a problem for markets, is it? The sanctions won’t be going away anytime soon.
    That remains to be seen. Has the West learned its lesson about keeping up the pressure this time?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Not really. I'm afraid Labour absolutely MUST and WILL chose a female leader. It's Labour's huge Achilles heel.

    And I don't think getting a lecture from any man on why this is unfair is gonna wash.

    I didn't say it was unfair, I said it was sexist.
    If you're happy to embrace discrimination for the greater good (the greater good) then be open about it. Some people would agree.
    But your post was about your perceptions of their qualities. And it seems that Streeting doesn't quite measure up because he's male. I can't see another way to read your post.
    I never countered about being unfair.

    I said it has to be a woman. I don't give a flying fig if you don't like that or think it's sexist or mean or lacking in fairness.

    The next Labour leader cannot be a man. We have to have a woman.

    And there we shall leave it. There's no point going round in circles. You don't like positive discrimination. I get it. But on this occasion it's tough shit.
    How do they define “woman”?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006
    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Sandpit said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    I never swear on here, but fuck him, fuck his mother, and fuck the horse on which he rode in.

    If Germany wants to lead the EU, they need to put on their big boys’ pants and take out the enemy.
    I note their isn’t much liquidity in the Betfair market on last place in Eurovision (I guess because we don’t know who will be in it yet), but Germany are quite a short price.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    Right, about to watch a film with my son.

    Have a good evening all.

    x
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    I am hoping that Chas n baldy hate Andrew as much as he deserves and will kick him into oblivion by calling in his debts to HMQ within minutes of the death cert being signed. Otherwise, no change.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    To adopt MarqueeMark's suggestion for a different field, it will switch the concept of royalty in the UK off and on again.
    Well, certainly the first part of that.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Well here's a starter, not that you appear the sort who will be persuaded especially by someone who at the last time of reckoning still reckoned I was a Muscovite troll.

    She has been the figurehead of the institution for 70 yrs. During that time some significant events have happened. The true facts behind some of those events have been quashed to this day. A lot of that is out of respect for her.

    When she goes all hell will break loose. There are far too many wild horses inside the paddock. And there are journalists itching to tell more.
    Belarusian actually, it was Minsk.

    I wonder if anything will emerge about the rift with Harold and the rest of the family.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    I am hoping that Chas n baldy hate Andrew as much as he deserves and will kick him into oblivion by calling in his debts to HMQ within minutes of the death cert being signed. Otherwise, no change.
    Depends who the executors actually are. It'd however be impossible to wind up the estate, and [edit] even obtain probate in theory, without some resolution of that issue. For one thing, it affects the probate valuation and the IHT.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    Seems clear the answer is yes, if the Ukrainians are willing to pay the price to get there. 2 months of war have already shifted what Russia might have demanded (eg removal of the fascist regime in Kiev) to something less, if still unacceptable. If nations are losing they will accept an awful lot they would once regard as impossible.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    or it end with Putin's Death/overthrow

    or a hell of of a lot of other scenarios that are hard to imagine till they happen.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    I am hoping that Chas n baldy hate Andrew as much as he deserves and will kick him into oblivion by calling in his debts to HMQ within minutes of the death cert being signed. Otherwise, no change.
    Isn't he her favourite? He might be looked after.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    IshmaelZ said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    Remind me of the origins of the volkswagen name and marque?
    Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fucker!
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Sandpit said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Not really. I'm afraid Labour absolutely MUST and WILL chose a female leader. It's Labour's huge Achilles heel.

    And I don't think getting a lecture from any man on why this is unfair is gonna wash.

    I didn't say it was unfair, I said it was sexist.
    If you're happy to embrace discrimination for the greater good (the greater good) then be open about it. Some people would agree.
    But your post was about your perceptions of their qualities. And it seems that Streeting doesn't quite measure up because he's male. I can't see another way to read your post.
    I never countered about being unfair.

    I said it has to be a woman. I don't give a flying fig if you don't like that or think it's sexist or mean or lacking in fairness.

    The next Labour leader cannot be a man. We have to have a woman.

    And there we shall leave it. There's no point going round in circles. You don't like positive discrimination. I get it. But on this occasion it's tough shit.
    How do they define “woman”?
    Someone who can be "positively discriminated" in favour of, apparently.

    As if discrimination can ever be positive.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,715
    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    Acceptable to Russia, not necessarily Putin. If they don't get rid of him in the near term then Europe will have found other energy sources, more countries will have joined NATO and the sanctions will still be in place. If Russia wants to avoid becoming more of an economic basket case and international pariah, if it wants to avoid becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of China it should get rid of Putin.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    Think you mean, agreement that Russia is forced to accept. Whether they find it "acceptable"or not.

    Unless I'm missing something, Biden administration appears committed to restoration of full Ukrainian sovereignty over whats Ukraine de jure?

    Ukraine could end up settling on slightly less. But NOT because of US pressure.

    Just one fool's opinion - mine!
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,174
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Well here's a starter, not that you appear the sort who will be persuaded especially by someone who at the last time of reckoning still reckoned I was a Muscovite troll.

    She has been the figurehead of the institution for 70 yrs. During that time some significant events have happened. The true facts behind some of those events have been quashed to this day. A lot of that is out of respect for her.

    When she goes all hell will break loose. There are far too many wild horses inside the paddock. And there are journalists itching to tell more.
    Belarusian actually, it was Minsk.

    I wonder if anything will emerge about the rift with Harold and the rest of the family.
    Uncle Louis was in line to replace Harold as titular Prime Minister wasn't he?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,233
    Mobility issues?

    If she needs to use a wheelchair, then wheel her in. No shame in that. I remember wheeling my grandad across the road for lunch at the pub near his nursing home to celebrate his 97th birthday. I thought we would end up having many years of stories about her declining health, but perhaps they kept things quiet for a long time.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Indeed, Charles is effectively Prince Regent and in reality Head of State now in all but name, certainly in terms of performing most of the day to day functions of the Monarch
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Another torrid day for the markets

    Yes, a bit painful for my portfolio today. Not quite a buying opportunity yet though!
    There’s a long way down still to go for the stock markets, and a long way up still to go for interest rates.
    Bounceback fairly quickly IMO. Both the Ukraine War and China Omnicron will be over by the autumn. My portfolio is for the long term.
    And the First World War was going to be over by Christmas...
    Russia cannot sustain the war at the current consumption rate of men and material. A battle of attrition goes Ukraines way, albeit at great cost. Stalemate by Autumn is the best he can hope for, but the defeat in Kharkiv oblast this week threatens their Donbas offensive, and I think then Ukraine liberates Kherson oblast.
    But the war itself isn’t really a problem for markets, is it? The sanctions won’t be going away anytime soon.
    That remains to be seen. Has the West learned its lesson about keeping up the pressure this time?
    Well, even if it hasn't, what companies are going to get back into bed with Russia?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150
    IshmaelZ said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    Remind me of the origins of the volkswagen name and marque?
    Next: Rheinmettal Krupps demands that Kyiv sits down to negotiate, and I G Farben calls for “free exports of gas”
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150
    Amazing detail in that FT article on the CEO of VW

    “Volkswagen’s Diess, who had previously warned that a drawn-out war would do more damage to Germany and Europe than the Covid-19 pandemic, has sparked criticism for previous comments.

    “In 2019, he apologised after using the phrase “Ebit macht frei”, or “Profits will set you free” — an apparent play on the phrase “Arbeit macht frei”, or “Work will set you free”, which was forged into the gates of the Auschwitz concentration camp. Later that year, he said he was “unaware” of China’s mass detention of Muslims in Xinjiang province.”

    WTAF???
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    Remind me of the origins of the volkswagen name and marque?
    Next: Rheinmettal Krupps demands that Kyiv sits down to negotiate, and I G Farben calls for “free exports of gas”
    Rheinmetall AG and Krupp were different companies entirely ...
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,934
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    Remind me of the origins of the volkswagen name and marque?
    Next: Rheinmettal Krupps demands that Kyiv sits down to negotiate, and I G Farben calls for “free exports of gas”
    Germany is so basket case that nutter Mutti Merkels mob are popular again after like 3 months of opposition
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006

    EPG said:

    Nato is not going to be putting boots on the ground in Siberia or nuking Moscow. So of course the war is going to end with an agreement acceptable to Russia, at which point the question becomes whether several years of war will improve the tenor of that agreement.

    Think you mean, agreement that Russia is forced to accept. Whether they find it "acceptable"or not.

    Unless I'm missing something, Biden administration appears committed to restoration of full Ukrainian sovereignty over whats Ukraine de jure?

    Ukraine could end up settling on slightly less. But NOT because of US pressure.

    Just one fool's opinion - mine!
    I am a fool too but I still think yours is a more sensible line of thought than hoping for an actuarial or shenanigan-based reshuffle in Moscow that delivers a deus ex machina Western-style liberal boss. Of course we think the war is wrong, but people in power in Russia don't. Plus our own leaders could get replaced Trump or Le Pen-style.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    I will be "pleased" when she fails to become PM
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Indeed, Charles is effectively Prince Regent and in reality Head of State now in all but name, certainly in terms of performing most of the day to day functions of the Monarch
    I'll bet someone out there is saying the key moment was when Her Majesty made clear Camilla would become Queen (something some people get weirdly upset about), that it must have shown Charles was not running the operation.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167
    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    FPT, in reply to DixieDean,

    “Keir’s a wrongun for putting pressure on the police”, seems to be the unofficial line:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/09/starmer-copies-blairs-tactic-of-pressuring-police-to-make-right-conclusion/

    I can see the point, but I would hope the police didn’t behave differently due to this.

    I have no doubt Durham police will be scrupulously fair here.
    You what? Bent as a bottle of chips, the Durham filth, everybody knows that. All comes down to which party is offering the super the larger drink.

    That probably isn't true, but equally what is your endorsement actually worth? Apols if you've been a defence barrister at Durham crown court for the past 30 years.
    No I haven’t. I’m in Engjneering. Durham Police have been ranked outstanding for several years now. They’re pretty good and pretty community focussed.

    I live in Durham, they’re my local force. I think they are pretty well regarded although they did handle a fine on a young lad who organised a mass balloon release in honour of a troubled teen, who took his own life, pretty poorly. That aside they had a good COVID and certainly were not trigger happy issuing fines for breaches.

    I also suspect with the eyes of the country on them, especially after having been pressured to investigate Cummings and the result of that investigation. He was found to have likely breached regs but not fined.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    nico679 said:

    Harry Cole is now having a meltdown and accusing Starmer and Beth Rigby of some stitch up because she got the first question!

    Poor thing it must be awful to realize that his Beergate campaign has blown up in his face .

    maybe they didn’t think police would investigate? It’s already been investigated. It’s very hard to prove everybody socialised and nobody achieved any actual work output that evening, on the more lenient restrictions at the time it’s a far higher bar of evidence needed than cakegate, where is that level of evidence? The police are loathed to reopen these retrospective FPN or it could go crazy using up so much resource, trying to be seen to be evenhanded.

    Without an investigation clearing labour, and killing the hypocrite attack line, it was a great bit of mud to sling, and go on slinging.

    So why did the police change their mind and let Harry Cole and the mail down? 🤔
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Indeed, Charles is effectively Prince Regent and in reality Head of State now in all but name, certainly in terms of performing most of the day to day functions of the Monarch
    I'll bet someone out there is saying the key moment was when Her Majesty made clear Camilla would become Queen (something some people get weirdly upset about), that it must have shown Charles was not running the operation.
    But by definition it won't be her decision. She only wanted it to happen. Can't order it.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,185
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    You know that your post is sexist, right?
    Not really. I'm afraid Labour absolutely MUST and WILL chose a female leader. It's Labour's huge Achilles heel.

    And I don't think getting a lecture from any man on why this is unfair is gonna wash.

    You can make the point that labour would best served by a female leader without doing it in a sexist way. You delight in calling out old white men on pb, yet cannot see your own excesses.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    BigRich said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    And I call for the chief of Volkswagen to be put in the stocks and have rotten vegetables throne at him until the Ukrainians declare final victory.
    We may not be able to spare rotten vegetables the way things are going.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Starmer is hoping to force Johnson out of office, I don't think it will work. Total waste of time.

    He doesn't have to. If he goes and Johnson stays, it really will finish off the tories at the GE, especially under a new Labour leader.

    That's why it's a smart move, albeit one forced on him by the Daily Mail who have spectacularly managed to shoot Boris.
    What will finish the Tories off, more than anything else, will be cost of living crisis. They are clueless about it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited May 2022

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    Given the number of places that clearly want to be Republics yet are holding off (apparently not presently willing to follow Barbados in this) there must be some personal element involved.

    Many things, people or actions are symbolic - but symbols have power.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't suppose there's any hope of getting rid of both Boris and Starmer, is there?

    There is hope.
    Personally I don't want Starmer to go in his current state of being innocent. He's done a really good job of dragging Labour back to somewhere sensible. If I knew he'd be replaced with someone of the same instincts and at least as capable, I wouldn't mind. But I fear for our country if it goes back to 2019.
    I'm as near 100% certain as I can be that Labour won't go back. The opposite. Forward with fresh propulsion.

    We've tasted bitter defeat. And by contrast we've smelled the sweet scent of victory drifting across the tulip fields.

    That addresses the instincts side, but not the capability side. That is very much up in the air.

    Not that I agree with you about the no backsliding.
    I really rate Rachel Reeves. Very impressive background and she has been great in Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Reeves

    Lisa Nandy not so sure: doesn't particularly inspire tbh. Yvette Cooper is good but yesterday's person really. I guess Wes Streeting is okay but suffers from being a man.

    Rachel's the one for the top spot imho.
    I will be "pleased" when she fails to become PM
    It is genuinely disturbing how many supposed left-wingers want the Tories to win elections in perpetuity.
    I find it amusing. Just about everything BJO posts makes me laugh out loud. 🤭
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited May 2022
    Starmer safe as houses if the bad law project thinks this, get your money on the opposite.

    Third, although I need to know more about the facts, I really wouldn't want to be placing a bet that Starmer hasn't broken the law. I think this is a serious matter for him and for Labour.

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1523228302101876737?s=20&t=80E_egVfLBnduVGe_SomPQ
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Volkswagen chief calls for settlement to end Ukraine war to help EU economy

    https://www.ft.com/content/f8c2482d-c7af-4d7e-87e7-87562194250b

    Remind me of the origins of the volkswagen name and marque?
    Next: Rheinmettal Krupps demands that Kyiv sits down to negotiate, and I G Farben calls for “free exports of gas”
    Germany is so basket case that nutter Mutti Merkels mob are popular again after like 3 months of opposition
    Germany is having an Astonishingly Bad War. Any sense of moral leadership that they had under Merkel - which was increasingly threadbare - has been cast to the winds. Terrible, tone-deaf weirdness day after day

    I think their guilt complex about WW2, esp with regard to Russia, goes so deep they cannot see straight. Russia is in a sense the mirror image, also obsessed with WW2 but from the opposite perspective

    And we think we are peculiarly nostalgic in Britain, when we hum the Dambusters tune at football matches….

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    In which case you have singlehandedly destroyed the glorious UK (mostly English) constitution. They have no right to be otherwise; they are absolute menaces if they are not figureheads.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited May 2022
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    I don't like discussing HMQ's death. It feels inappropriate.

    However, I suspect that after she does die an awful lot of muck is going to come to the surface.

    If Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and the rest of it is what's at the surface while she's alive, just what muck could be hidden?
    Moot point. The thing keeping any putative muck from surfacing is not Betty or even her behalf. It's the institution. That doesn't go away after she breathes her last, and so this idea that the floodgates will suddenly open requires a little more explanation to be plausible. I'm not buying it personally.
    Indeed, Charles is effectively Prince Regent and in reality Head of State now in all but name, certainly in terms of performing most of the day to day functions of the Monarch
    I'll bet someone out there is saying the key moment was when Her Majesty made clear Camilla would become Queen (something some people get weirdly upset about), that it must have shown Charles was not running the operation.
    But by definition it won't be her decision. She only wanted it to happen. Can't order it.
    Sure, but it's something we already knew Charles wanted, and he got his mum to release a statement saying she agreed to boost the idea, and she's barely been seen out and about since - conspiracy theory territory.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    I think we will find out lots about the immense contribution made by Queen Elizabeth II in the future.

    Like: she was almost singlehandedly responsible for the successful transition from the Empire to the Commonwealth and personally for preserving well over a dozen Commonwealth Realms into the 21st Century. She also gave a huge boost to the projection of British soft power on the European, US and global stage through the respect and admiration she commanded.

    Never let it be said that monarchs are 'just' figureheads.

    The Queen is living history, a colossus in a time of pygmies.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Heathener said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    We have a part time monarch.

    Not for very long though.
    Charles should be appointed Regent if she is no longer capable. Only breaking her coronation vow in a very specific and limited way.
    Or just scrap the monarchy.

    I think she's been amazing and I have great respect for her, despite some mistakes, but the institution is past its sell by date.
    I agree with you that the monarchy needs to go, but the issue is what to do with the powers vested in the Monarch that they simply do not use?

    We would finally need a written constitution. Are you really going to leave that in the hands of someone like Boris?
This discussion has been closed.