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The great grad/non-grad voting indicator – politicalbetting.com

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    OK I'll stop now. For those that didn't get it please position yourself in front of a wall so you can bang your head against it.

    It's the Nile.

    For those that got it instantly I guess you are wondering why we are all so thick?

    Paul Sinha asked the question of an audience of quizzers and by god the stuff they knew was impressive yet very few of them could answer the question immediately and some not at all and I'm guessing it is because you think Med = Europe. But hells bells it really is an easy question. I only had a short time to think about it before hearing the answer, but I didn't get it. My wife had all the time in the world and didn't get it (and she does know the answer obviously).
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    Applicant said:

    dixiedean said:

    Lennon said:

    kjh said:

    OT. I am going to ask a question, but please don't answer. Just say whether you got it straight away or had to think about it.

    What is the longest river that flows into the Mediterranean?

    Straight away - very obvious to me.
    Fascinated why you are asking the question though
    I got it very quickly.
    But it was interesting which geographical way round I approached the question.
    I think it's more obvious if you start from "longest river" rather than "into the Med".
    Yep.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    edited May 2022
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    OT. I am going to ask a question, but please don't answer. Just say whether you got it straight away or had to think about it.

    What is the longest river that flows into the Mediterranean?

    Had to think and still haven't got it.
    Same as me and my wife then.
    But I am poor on joggo tbf. Dropped it at 13.
    No you really do know it and you are far from alone.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    It's remarkable as I could've sworn you went there too recently and took identical looking photos. I'm amazed you've never met.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    The river question is absolutely obvious.

    Am I missing something?

    No.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    Labours tissue of lies re beergate gradually falling apart

    Should have been totally honest from day 1

    Has there been a new development?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    franklyn said:

    So why is domestic electricity in France 40% of the cost in the UK?
    We are told that prices have gone up here because energy costs have risen worldwide, but to what extend have ours been aggravated by hair-brained green levies, and utility taxes?

    Asking for a friend

    Nuclear energy
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721
    Mark Drakeford has said that Welsh Labour has begun "talks to remove centralised party control of Welsh members" a first step on the road to a divorce from the toxic London party under Sir Keir Starmer, David Evans and the Labour right.

    A great move IMO

    Time to move to Wales think i might try and find somewhere near my Mexican Comrade Pete
  • Applicant said:

    dixiedean said:

    Lennon said:

    kjh said:

    OT. I am going to ask a question, but please don't answer. Just say whether you got it straight away or had to think about it.

    What is the longest river that flows into the Mediterranean?

    Straight away - very obvious to me.
    Fascinated why you are asking the question though
    I got it very quickly.
    But it was interesting which geographical way round I approached the question.
    I think it's more obvious if you start from "longest river" rather than "into the Med".
    Yep I got it straight away too, but then as soon as you say "longest river" that's what comes into my head, so already primed for the answer.

    If the question were rephrased so Mediterranean was said before the words longest river, then it'd be a harder question I expect.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,610

    franklyn said:

    So why is domestic electricity in France 40% of the cost in the UK?
    We are told that prices have gone up here because energy costs have risen worldwide, but to what extend have ours been aggravated by hair-brained green levies, and utility taxes?

    Asking for a friend

    France nuclear power 70%
    UK nuclear power 15%

    "Energy" (oil & gas) costs have risen worldwide but France are deriving their electricity from uranium, not "energy".

    Waits for PB pedant to perhaps say its not uranium its something else instead
    France hasn't really done much on thorium fuelled reactors.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    Interesting thought on cost of living and political full circles. Given that CoL is a global crisis, are we going to see Johnson and Sunak go full Gordon and his 'started in America' garbage? And will Boz claim to have saved the world? I mean he'll definitely call someone something nasty like a bigot on hot mic (and just generally probably), but that's for later

    The GFC did start in America and Boris claims to have saved Ukraine.
  • Mark Drakeford has said that Welsh Labour has begun "talks to remove centralised party control of Welsh members" a first step on the road to a divorce from the toxic London party under Sir Keir Starmer, David Evans and the Labour right.

    A great move IMO

    Time to move to Wales think i might try and find somewhere near my Mexican Comrade Pete

    Are you aware that Drakeford is as centrist as Starmer right. He's not a Corbynite and never has been.

    You're so utterly desperate to prove that Corbynism isn't a loser, it is the emphasis of most of your posts.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    kjh said:

    OK I'll stop now. For those that didn't get it please position yourself in front of a wall so you can bang your head against it.

    It's the Nile.

    For those that got it instantly I guess you are wondering why we are all so thick?

    Paul Sinha asked the question of an audience of quizzers and by god the stuff they knew was impressive yet very few of them could answer the question immediately and some not at all and I'm guessing it is because you think Med = Europe. But hells bells it really is an easy question. I only had a short time to think about it before hearing the answer, but I didn't get it. My wife had all the time in the world and didn't get it (and she does know the answer obviously).

    An exercise in Eurocentrics. Africans unsurprised.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    edited May 2022

    Interesting thought on cost of living and political full circles. Given that CoL is a global crisis, are we going to see Johnson and Sunak go full Gordon and his 'started in America' garbage? And will Boz claim to have saved the world? I mean he'll definitely call someone something nasty like a bigot on hot mic (and just generally probably), but that's for later

    The GFC did start in America and Boris claims to have saved Ukraine.
    Dun dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnnnn
    Although the GFC started in China imo
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,610
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've seen this movie several times. PB Header highlights that the Tory vote is skewed to the uneducated. Various posters say this only shows their vote skews old since hardly anybody used to go to uni before 1975.

    (Damp squib from Putin, wasn't it. He's in quite a bind.)

    You could do something interesting, by correcting for the effect - breaking down voting patterns within each cohort.

    Not seen polling data for that, though.
    Tricky one. You'd need an exit poll with 2 further Qs to how did you vote.

    1. Did you go to uni?

    2. If "no" Is that because (a) you're not clever enough or (b) you didn't want to or (c) because there weren't the opportunities when you were a young un.

    And even then you'd get a lot of 'noise' in there.
    @LostPassword (see below) found IPOS data that suggests the effect is small.
  • TimS said:

    franklyn said:

    So why is domestic electricity in France 40% of the cost in the UK?
    We are told that prices have gone up here because energy costs have risen worldwide, but to what extend have ours been aggravated by hair-brained green levies, and utility taxes?

    Asking for a friend

    We have a different deregulated market which is more volatile than France. I've had a second home there for 15 years, and electricity prices have been significantly higher on average there than here in the UK. But during spikes like this our prices rocket up much more. In the good times it's cheaper to buy energy here, but in the bad times it's much worse.

    I don't think its French regulations here, its simply the fact that France is 70% nuclear and we're 15% nuclear.

    Ours is more volatile as energy companies have been buying energy on the spot market. So when that's cheaper than nuclear power, we've benefitted from cheaper energy while the French have been overpaying for the far more fixed cost of their nuclear power plants.

    Now that the spot market has shot up for energy, our firms are paying far more on the market while the French are still on their far more fixed costs of their nuclear power plants.

    By going for gas rather than nuclear we've left ourselves far more exposed to variations in gas prices than the French are.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited May 2022
    kjh said:

    The river question is absolutely obvious.

    Am I missing something?

    No.
    I'd have been buggered if the q excluded the Nile, can't even decide whether Rhone and Danube flow into the Med at all.

    ETA Rhone Med Rhine N Sea Danube Black Sea, it says here
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001

    Mark Drakeford has said that Welsh Labour has begun "talks to remove centralised party control of Welsh members" a first step on the road to a divorce from the toxic London party under Sir Keir Starmer, David Evans and the Labour right.

    A great move IMO

    Time to move to Wales think i might try and find somewhere near my Mexican Comrade Pete

    Only if you want a terrible NHS
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    Labours tissue of lies re beergate gradually falling apart

    Should have been totally honest from day 1

    Has there been a new development?
    Just being picked apart in every appearance this morning

    Streeting trying to call it a misunderstanding Reid says or a lie.

    Nandy cant get onto the subjects she wants to discuss without being constantly dragged back to Beergate

    SKS hiding in a fridge and cancelling a major speech for fear of the inevitable questions.

    So no not really but weeks more of this unless he resigns
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    Applicant said:

    dixiedean said:

    Lennon said:

    kjh said:

    OT. I am going to ask a question, but please don't answer. Just say whether you got it straight away or had to think about it.

    What is the longest river that flows into the Mediterranean?

    Straight away - very obvious to me.
    Fascinated why you are asking the question though
    I got it very quickly.
    But it was interesting which geographical way round I approached the question.
    I think it's more obvious if you start from "longest river" rather than "into the Med".
    Yep I got it straight away too, but then as soon as you say "longest river" that's what comes into my head, so already primed for the answer.

    If the question were rephrased so Mediterranean was said before the words longest river, then it'd be a harder question I expect.
    Good point. I wonder if it was phrased differently. I'm struggling to think how. However it did still trip up several here and I'm guessing there is not a single person here who actually doesn't know the answer.
  • ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881

    rkrkrk said:

    Ipsos MORI provided a qualification comparison for different age bands for GE2019. There is a little residual effect from qualification, but it is absolutely swamped by the age difference.

    The clearest impact is an increase in Liberal Democrat voting with increasing level of education.


    Thanks for sharing the graph.
    I think there's a big drop in voting Tory from having a degree shown there, but mainly benefits the Lib Dems.
    Is there anywhere a graph from 20-25 years ago making the same comparison? In other words, is this a new phenomenon? As OGH pints out, the Americans have dividing samples up this way for a long time.
    I've not seen that specific graph -> but I think historically Labour did well among those without formal qualifications and that has now completely changed. Apparently in 2001, Lab got 58% of vote with no qualifications, but lost that category in 2017.

    "As we might anticipate, Labour has usually been more popular among those without any educational qualifications
    than among graduates; the former group are, after all, more likely to be employed in working-class occupations, employment in which has traditionally been associated with voting Labour.

    However, the Conservative Party has never been especially popular among university graduates, among whom the Liberal Democrats have instead tended to be unusually popular. "

    https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39255/bsa35_voting.pdf
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,610

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    Anyone want to bet when broadcast for TV is turned off and the frequencies sold?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    TimS said:

    Interesting position the Lib Dems find themselves in with results like this. There is no getting away from it, they are now unambiguously the party of the professional elite. Do they (we, for I am a member) try to do something about this to avoid being boxed in as woke remoaner elitists, or lean into it?

    Unlike Labour or the Tories the Lib Dems don't necessarily need to hold together a wide electoral coalition. The SNP have shown that you can be very successful under FPTP if you max out support on one side of a political divide. I don't suggest the Lib Dems are anywhere near as concentrated or efficient in support as the SNP of course (the latter have I believe the lowest votes per seat of any major party while the Lib Dems do very badly on this, beaten only in inefficiency by the Greens and the various UKIP-esque parties).

    Do the Lib Dems indeed become the new destination party for graduate Labour voters who get older and wealthier and move out to the commuter belt and shires? Whereas in the past they might have jumped straight into voting Tory as their mortgages and house values grew?

    Though the party also has an opportunity with farming communities. Traditional Liberal base, and one of the more immediately disillusioned by the promises of Brexit. But I don't think appealing to farmers and wealthy graduates is particularly mutually exclusive, with the exception perhaps of some local NIMBY issues.

    Long term danger lies in being part of a government that took the UK back into Europe or even put it to referendum given this is a key desire of much of this demographic. Rejoiners stand to become as despised as boogeyman by half the country as Tories are and have been since Thatcher.
    Without being too silly there is, for the first time since the Miners Strike or possibly Iraq, a vacancy for a new target of loathing.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited May 2022
    Should Keir Starmer resign if fined by police for #Beergate?

    General public: 46% yes / 32% no

    Labour voters: 48% yes / 32% no

    Conservative voters: 40% yes / 43% no

    ROFL, Tories know exactly what they are doing
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    Glad to have provided a smidging of entertainment this morning (if I did), although I regret to having to admit I am as thick as two short planks.
  • Most Britons think that Keir Starmer either "definitely" or "probably" broke lockdown rules with #Beergate

    Definitely did: 24%
    Probably did: 30%
    Probably did not: 16%
    Definitely did not: 5%
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Fascinating. More Labour votes than Tory voters think SKS should resigned if he gets a FPN.

    Should Keir Starmer resign if fined by police for #Beergate?

    General public: 46% yes / 32% no

    Labour voters: 48% yes / 32% no

    Conservative voters: 40% yes / 43% no

    https://t.co/JNGLNJghoA

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1523600637480824832
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    franklyn said:

    So why is domestic electricity in France 40% of the cost in the UK?
    We are told that prices have gone up here because energy costs have risen worldwide, but to what extend have ours been aggravated by hair-brained green levies, and utility taxes?

    Asking for a friend

    Nuclear energy
    is the right answer.

    If only Thatch had turned the coalfields into so many Springfields, which I believe is pretty much what the French did
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
  • ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    Now I feel old, I've never heard of Gatwa, though I'm in thirties not teens or twenties I suppose.

    Good luck to him, I don't watch the show as I think its meh compared to modern sci/fi alternatives, but I see absolutely no reason why he can't portray a role which is literally regenerated into a different body every time.

    The lore of the Doctor is that he's meant to look different every time, that's part of the storyline, so the fact he looks different this time is entirely in fitting with its lore. I doubt any Doctor Who fans are objecting whatsoever.

    Then again, not seen a single person here object, even from the normal anti-woke people.

    I'm a firm critic of the BBC normally, but absolutely nothing negative to say here, apart from that their sci/fi is nothing like modern sci/fi on other networks.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    Most Britons think that Keir Starmer either "definitely" or "probably" broke lockdown rules with #Beergate

    Definitely did: 24%
    Probably did: 30%
    Probably did not: 16%
    Definitely did not: 5%

    Interesting. Superb work by the Daily Mail sadly.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    Labours tissue of lies re beergate gradually falling apart

    Should have been totally honest from day 1

    Has there been a new development?
    Just being picked apart in every appearance this morning

    Streeting trying to call it a misunderstanding Reid says or a lie.

    Nandy cant get onto the subjects she wants to discuss without being constantly dragged back to Beergate

    SKS hiding in a fridge and cancelling a major speech for fear of the inevitable questions.

    So no not really but weeks more of this unless he resigns
    And now people start to think there is more to hide, it can't just be a takeaway.
    Classic feeding frenzy explosion in the story that the blues have already faced.
    And well deserved to both.
  • ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,151

    TimS said:

    franklyn said:

    So why is domestic electricity in France 40% of the cost in the UK?
    We are told that prices have gone up here because energy costs have risen worldwide, but to what extend have ours been aggravated by hair-brained green levies, and utility taxes?

    Asking for a friend

    We have a different deregulated market which is more volatile than France. I've had a second home there for 15 years, and electricity prices have been significantly higher on average there than here in the UK. But during spikes like this our prices rocket up much more. In the good times it's cheaper to buy energy here, but in the bad times it's much worse.

    I don't think its French regulations here, its simply the fact that France is 70% nuclear and we're 15% nuclear.

    Ours is more volatile as energy companies have been buying energy on the spot market. So when that's cheaper than nuclear power, we've benefitted from cheaper energy while the French have been overpaying for the far more fixed cost of their nuclear power plants.

    Now that the spot market has shot up for energy, our firms are paying far more on the market while the French are still on their far more fixed costs of their nuclear power plants.

    By going for gas rather than nuclear we've left ourselves far more exposed to variations in gas prices than the French are.
    The regulations definitely have an effect on the cheapness of electricity during times of lower prices. There's essentially one monopoly provider in France for domestic customers - EDF. It is of course heavily nuclear based. It does buy electricity through interconnectors from neighbouring countries but ultimately it sets the price, and in most years that's much higher than traded spot prices (partly of course because nuclear itself is very expensive).

    EDF's prices are now artificially supressed too because the French government have capped them heavily. That's a political choice and because EDF is state owned it's essentially taxpayer funding.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.

    NB AS one of the few non graduates on here I can say that!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    edited May 2022
    Geography all depends on your starting point. It is, therefore, highly political.
    I went from Geography O Level to Canadian Geography class in British Columbia. We studied the megalopolis of the Greater Golden Horseshoe. (Greater Toronto and Hamilton and wider South Ontario area), considered to be Canada's urban hellhole). One day the teacher overlaid a map of the area with the M62 corridor, with equivalent population density.
    Of course, no-one here (outside of geographers) considers the area from Liverpool to Hull to be a City at all. Let alone a mega city
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    Mark Drakeford has said that Welsh Labour has begun "talks to remove centralised party control of Welsh members" a first step on the road to a divorce from the toxic London party under Sir Keir Starmer, David Evans and the Labour right.

    A great move IMO

    Time to move to Wales think i might try and find somewhere near my Mexican Comrade Pete

    Are you aware that Drakeford is as centrist as Starmer right. He's not a Corbynite and never has been.

    You're so utterly desperate to prove that Corbynism isn't a loser, it is the emphasis of most of your posts.
    During the Labour leadership battle in 2015, Mark Drakeford was the only Welsh cabinet member to vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

    In his victory speech, Drakeford said that under his leadership Welsh Labour would follow “radical socialist traditions”

    He is wonderful
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Roger said:

    No wonder the Tories want to stop university education

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.
    Exhibit One as to why people in the RW seats see Labour as the party of a Metropolitan snobbish elite that looks down on them and despises their values.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2022
    cancelled
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I'd watched Doctor Who as a kid and watched almost every episode since the 2005 reboot. I switched off after a few episodes of Jodie Whitakker. It was not the fact she was a women but the episodes were terribly. They managed to politicise almost every episode into a very obvious left-wing morality lesson. The episode which made me switch off was one where (IIRC) a rich capitalistic business owner was trapped with others and he sold them all out. I wanted to watch a fun sci-fi romp and not be lectured to.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,848
    edited May 2022
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    OT. I am going to ask a question, but please don't answer. Just say whether you got it straight away or had to think about it.

    What is the longest river that flows into the Mediterranean?

    Had to think and still haven't got it.
    Same as me and my wife then.
    But I am poor on joggo tbf. Dropped it at 13.
    No you really do know it and you are far from alone.
    Not really. I'd have gone (if pushed) with Nile but it would have been a guess using the 'exam technique' that got me through so much back in the day.

    I couldn't tell you with any confidence where the Nile ends. Well, I can now - the Mediterranean Sea. And this fact is now lodged forever because of today.

    We live we learn we live we learn.
  • Mark Drakeford has said that Welsh Labour has begun "talks to remove centralised party control of Welsh members" a first step on the road to a divorce from the toxic London party under Sir Keir Starmer, David Evans and the Labour right.

    A great move IMO

    Time to move to Wales think i might try and find somewhere near my Mexican Comrade Pete

    Are you aware that Drakeford is as centrist as Starmer right. He's not a Corbynite and never has been.

    You're so utterly desperate to prove that Corbynism isn't a loser, it is the emphasis of most of your posts.
    During the Labour leadership battle in 2015, Mark Drakeford was the only Welsh cabinet member to vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

    In his victory speech, Drakeford said that under his leadership Welsh Labour would follow “radical socialist traditions”

    He is wonderful
    Lots of Labour MPs voted for Corbyn too, they regretted that just as Drakeford did.

    Socialism is a route to losing elections - and you're not a socialist, you're a populist
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kjh said:

    Most Britons think that Keir Starmer either "definitely" or "probably" broke lockdown rules with #Beergate

    Definitely did: 24%
    Probably did: 30%
    Probably did not: 16%
    Definitely did not: 5%

    Interesting. Superb work by the Daily Mail sadly.
    Whatever you think of the Daily Mail, when they go to town, they really know how to splash a story
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,610

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    All we need now is a good script and good direction.
  • Most Britons think that Keir Starmer either "definitely" or "probably" broke lockdown rules with #Beergate

    Definitely did: 24%
    Probably did: 30%
    Probably did not: 16%
    Definitely did not: 5%

    Stick a fork in him, he's done.

    Sunk by his own pomposity and his own two footed studs up challenge on Boris. This is why party leaders who are good at politics normally leave vicious attacks to their attack dogs rather than going in hard themselves.

    Keir just isn't very good at politics.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    Roger said:

    No wonder the Tories want to stop university education

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.
    Perhaps it would be better if we learned skills and had industry rather than pointless knowledge about arse. And I speak as a philosophy graduate.
    It's a ridiculous view that non university = thick.
  • If Starmer is found innocent Johnson will have to go.

    And if Starmer resigns, Johnson will have to go too.

    The Tories have boxed themselves into a corner.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,151

    Labours tissue of lies re beergate gradually falling apart

    Should have been totally honest from day 1

    Has there been a new development?
    Just being picked apart in every appearance this morning

    Streeting trying to call it a misunderstanding Reid says or a lie.

    Nandy cant get onto the subjects she wants to discuss without being constantly dragged back to Beergate

    SKS hiding in a fridge and cancelling a major speech for fear of the inevitable questions.

    So no not really but weeks more of this unless he resigns
    I think Nandy and Streeting both dealt with it reasonably well in the circumstances. But Keir is not managing this well at all. He seems to have gone into hiding. Not impressive at all.

    Would Corbyn have dealt with it better? Absolutely not (and we know he broke various lockdown rules). He would have gone all defensive and passive-aggressive, would have evaded media reporting and got his outriders to claim it was all a fascist press witchhunt. We would now be watching him petulantly slamming his front door as the press gathered outside.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've seen this movie several times. PB Header highlights that the Tory vote is skewed to the uneducated. Various posters say this only shows their vote skews old since hardly anybody used to go to uni before 1975.

    (Damp squib from Putin, wasn't it. He's in quite a bind.)

    You could do something interesting, by correcting for the effect - breaking down voting patterns within each cohort.

    Not seen polling data for that, though.
    Tricky one. You'd need an exit poll with 2 further Qs to how did you vote.

    1. Did you go to uni?

    2. If "no" Is that because (a) you're not clever enough or (b) you didn't want to or (c) because there weren't the opportunities when you were a young un.

    And even then you'd get a lot of 'noise' in there.
    When I were a lad many people who would now have gone to Uni studied for professional diplomas. Examples include Law, Accountancy, Pharmacy, Architecture. Pharmacy did require some full-time study, but that was largely because of the lab work required. Teachers, especially those who intended to teach in primary or non-selective secondary schools went to Training Colleges.
    There is, I believe, a small wing back in some of those quoted.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    edited May 2022
    Blimey. I've just read The Scotsman's take on the new Doctor Who.

    Ncuti Gatwa to take over from Jodie Whittaker as new Doctor Who
    Scottish actor Ncuti Gatwa will take over from Jodie Whittaker as the Time Lord in Doctor Who, the BBC has announced.

    The 29-year-old will become the 14th Doctor on the popular BBC show, after Whittaker announced last July she will be leaving the role.

    The Scottish actor who starred as Eric Effiong in Netflix’s hugely popular Sex Education about socially awkward high school student Otis (Asa Butterfield) and his sex therapist mother Jean (Gillian Anderson).

    The Rwandan-born Scot, who was educated in Fife and Edinburgh before attending the Royal Conservatoire in Glasgow, will become the 14th incarnation of the character.

    He will also become the fourth Scot to take up the post, following on from Sylvester McCoy, fellow Conservatoire graduate David Tennant and Peter Capaldi.

    https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/ncuti-gatwa-to-take-over-from-jodie-whittaker-as-new-doctor-who-3685223

    And some say the rivers question makes us parochial.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    edited May 2022

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
  • It’s high stakes now, so if I were Starmer I would outflank the PM, go public and say ‘I’m sure I did nothing wrong but if the police decide I did, I will resign’. He could pay a high price, but integrity in public life matters enough for him to show leadership by risking his.

    I agree with Tim Farron.
  • By the time of fieldwork (7-8 May), #Beergate stories had not had any impact on Keir Starmer's favourability rating

    Keir Starmer
    Favourable: 32% (+1 from 13-14 April)
    Unfavourable: 54% (+1)

    Boris Johnson
    Favourable: 24% (n/c)
    Unfavourable: 69% (n/c)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,151

    It’s high stakes now, so if I were Starmer I would outflank the PM, go public and say ‘I’m sure I did nothing wrong but if the police decide I did, I will resign’. He could pay a high price, but integrity in public life matters enough for him to show leadership by risking his.

    I agree with Tim Farron.

    Not only is it politically sensible but frankly it's the ethically right thing to do anyway.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Mark Drakeford has said that Welsh Labour has begun "talks to remove centralised party control of Welsh members" a first step on the road to a divorce from the toxic London party under Sir Keir Starmer, David Evans and the Labour right.

    A great move IMO

    Time to move to Wales think i might try and find somewhere near my Mexican Comrade Pete

    Only if you want a terrible NHS
    My in-laws use the Welsh NHS while at their second home (boo, hiss) and think it's great.
  • Tories are desperate for Starmer not to resign.

    If he does resign, Labour will go onto win and even in a landslide in 2024.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    David Tennant was the best actor ever to have played the Doctor, and by a fair margin. Although, while we are on trivia questions, which Doctor Who actor won an Oscar?
  • TimS said:

    It’s high stakes now, so if I were Starmer I would outflank the PM, go public and say ‘I’m sure I did nothing wrong but if the police decide I did, I will resign’. He could pay a high price, but integrity in public life matters enough for him to show leadership by risking his.

    I agree with Tim Farron.

    Not only is it politically sensible but frankly it's the ethically right thing to do anyway.
    I completely agree - and would put Labour on course to win with a new leader like Streeting
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,335
    MrEd said:

    Roger said:

    No wonder the Tories want to stop university education

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.
    Exhibit One as to why people in the RW seats see Labour as the party of a Metropolitan snobbish elite that looks down on them and despises their values.
    Can't argue with the data, though, can you.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    Blimey. I've just read The Scotsman's take on the new Doctor Who.

    Ncuti Gatwa to take over from Jodie Whittaker as new Doctor Who
    Scottish actor Ncuti Gatwa will take over from Jodie Whittaker as the Time Lord in Doctor Who, the BBC has announced.

    The 29-year-old will become the 14th Doctor on the popular BBC show, after Whittaker announced last July she will be leaving the role.

    The Scottish actor who starred as Eric Effiong in Netflix’s hugely popular Sex Education about socially awkward high school student Otis (Asa Butterfield) and his sex therapist mother Jean (Gillian Anderson).

    The Rwandan-born Scot, who was educated in Fife and Edinburgh before attending the Royal Conservatoire in Glasgow, will become the 14th incarnation of the character.

    He will also become the fourth Scot to take up the post, following on from Sylvester McCoy, fellow Conservatoire graduate David Tennant and Peter Capaldi.

    https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/ncuti-gatwa-to-take-over-from-jodie-whittaker-as-new-doctor-who-3685223

    And some say the rivers question makes us parochial.

    I mean the BBC should only be using Gallifreyan actors, surely?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Roger said:

    No wonder the Tories want to stop university education

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.
    Perhaps it would be better if we learned skills and had industry rather than pointless knowledge about arse. And I speak as a philosophy graduate.
    It's a ridiculous view that non university = thick.
    The whole point of university is to expand knowledge and academic research. Until 30 years ago that is why no more than 10% went to university.

    Now 30 to 40% of young people are graduates, including most nurses, when previously many of them would have gone straight to work at 18 or even 16 or done professional qualifications for banking, accountancy etc rather than a degree first.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    By the time of fieldwork (7-8 May), #Beergate stories had not had any impact on Keir Starmer's favourability rating

    Keir Starmer
    Favourable: 32% (+1 from 13-14 April)
    Unfavourable: 54% (+1)

    Boris Johnson
    Favourable: 24% (n/c)
    Unfavourable: 69% (n/c)

    Both a terrible drag on their Parties
  • To be honest it does seem to indicate this has been brought up by Labour lefties not the Tories.

    I can't see what is in it for the Tories to give this so much attention, because it only ends badly for them unless by some miracle Starmer stays and is fined - I can't believe he will
  • By the time of fieldwork (7-8 May), #Beergate stories had not had any impact on Keir Starmer's favourability rating

    Keir Starmer
    Favourable: 32% (+1 from 13-14 April)
    Unfavourable: 54% (+1)

    Boris Johnson
    Favourable: 24% (n/c)
    Unfavourable: 69% (n/c)

    Both a terrible drag on their Parties
    When JC went into GE19, he had a -40 approval rating.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    David Tennant was the best actor ever to have played the Doctor, and by a fair margin. Although, while we are on trivia questions, which Doctor Who actor won an Oscar?
    And the biggest painful twat.
    Capaldi according to Google. I didn't know that
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    Now I feel old, I've never heard of Gatwa, though I'm in thirties not teens or twenties I suppose.

    Good luck to him, I don't watch the show as I think its meh compared to modern sci/fi alternatives, but I see absolutely no reason why he can't portray a role which is literally regenerated into a different body every time.

    The lore of the Doctor is that he's meant to look different every time, that's part of the storyline, so the fact he looks different this time is entirely in fitting with its lore. I doubt any Doctor Who fans are objecting whatsoever.

    Then again, not seen a single person here object, even from the normal anti-woke people.

    I'm a firm critic of the BBC normally, but absolutely nothing negative to say here, apart from that their sci/fi is nothing like modern sci/fi on other networks.
    Agreed.. An incarnation of the Doctor could easily be black. It's not like making Ann Boleyn black.
  • ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    David Tennant was the best actor ever to have played the Doctor, and by a fair margin. Although, while we are on trivia questions, which Doctor Who actor won an Oscar?
    And the biggest painful twat.
    Capaldi according to Google. I didn't know that
    Small film what I recall
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    Have you not heard
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    Plenty of non-graduates are capable of thought. And some graduates are plainly incapable of thought.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    edited May 2022

    TimS said:

    It’s high stakes now, so if I were Starmer I would outflank the PM, go public and say ‘I’m sure I did nothing wrong but if the police decide I did, I will resign’. He could pay a high price, but integrity in public life matters enough for him to show leadership by risking his.

    I agree with Tim Farron.

    Not only is it politically sensible but frankly it's the ethically right thing to do anyway.
    I completely agree - and would put Labour on course to win with a new leader like Streeting
    Yeah but you dont become leader of a national political party because you believe in acting honourably. Nobody would survive their first week
  • novanova Posts: 525

    rkrkrk said:

    Ipsos MORI provided a qualification comparison for different age bands for GE2019. There is a little residual effect from qualification, but it is absolutely swamped by the age difference.

    The clearest impact is an increase in Liberal Democrat voting with increasing level of education.


    Thanks for sharing the graph.
    I think there's a big drop in voting Tory from having a degree shown there, but mainly benefits the Lib Dems.
    Is there anywhere a graph from 20-25 years ago making the same comparison? In other words, is this a new phenomenon? As OGH pints out, the Americans have dividing samples up this way for a long time.
    Not that I've seen, but see how things have changed. Here you'll find out how people voted in 1992 based on whether they have a home phone!

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-1992
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721
    TimS said:

    Labours tissue of lies re beergate gradually falling apart

    Should have been totally honest from day 1

    Has there been a new development?
    Just being picked apart in every appearance this morning

    Streeting trying to call it a misunderstanding Reid says or a lie.

    Nandy cant get onto the subjects she wants to discuss without being constantly dragged back to Beergate

    SKS hiding in a fridge and cancelling a major speech for fear of the inevitable questions.

    So no not really but weeks more of this unless he resigns
    I think Nandy and Streeting both dealt with it reasonably well in the circumstances. But Keir is not managing this well at all. He seems to have gone into hiding. Not impressive at all.

    Would Corbyn have dealt with it better? Absolutely not (and we know he broke various lockdown rules). He would have gone all defensive and passive-aggressive, would have evaded media reporting and got his outriders to claim it was all a fascist press witchhunt. We would now be watching him petulantly slamming his front door as the press gathered outside.
    Yes I am sure your right and Jezza would have faced this from day 1 to day infinity
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    AlistairM said:

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I'd watched Doctor Who as a kid and watched almost every episode since the 2005 reboot. I switched off after a few episodes of Jodie Whitakker. It was not the fact she was a women but the episodes were terribly. They managed to politicise almost every episode into a very obvious left-wing morality lesson. The episode which made me switch off was one where (IIRC) a rich capitalistic business owner was trapped with others and he sold them all out. I wanted to watch a fun sci-fi romp and not be lectured to.
    Chibnall was awful, but there have been a couple of good episodes even so. The Dalek episode at New Year's was particularly so.

    I've recently started watching Timeless on Netflix, which shows what is possible with a bit of time travel, and has an interestingly different approach.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    Have you not heard
    Yes. I've heard the rumours. I'm hoping they are false
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    He's a horrible creature.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    Sean_F said:

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    Now I feel old, I've never heard of Gatwa, though I'm in thirties not teens or twenties I suppose.

    Good luck to him, I don't watch the show as I think its meh compared to modern sci/fi alternatives, but I see absolutely no reason why he can't portray a role which is literally regenerated into a different body every time.

    The lore of the Doctor is that he's meant to look different every time, that's part of the storyline, so the fact he looks different this time is entirely in fitting with its lore. I doubt any Doctor Who fans are objecting whatsoever.

    Then again, not seen a single person here object, even from the normal anti-woke people.

    I'm a firm critic of the BBC normally, but absolutely nothing negative to say here, apart from that their sci/fi is nothing like modern sci/fi on other networks.
    Agreed.. An incarnation of the Doctor could easily be black. It's not like making Ann Boleyn black.
    As Eccles said in Rose 'lots of planets have a North'
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    Have you not heard
    Yes. I've heard the rumours. I'm hoping they are false
    Officially announced by RTD yesterday

    Should bring in a younger audience even if a few racist homophobes tune out
  • Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    Can it really be called doxxing when a user does it to themselves every other day?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Talking of good sci-fi, I thought the Villeneuve adaptation of Dune was magnificent.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    No wonder the Tories want to stop university education

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.
    Perhaps it would be better if we learned skills and had industry rather than pointless knowledge about arse. And I speak as a philosophy graduate.
    It's a ridiculous view that non university = thick.
    The whole point of university is to expand knowledge and academic research. Until 30 years ago that is why no more than 10% went to university.

    Now 30 to 40% of young people are graduates, including most nurses, when previously many of them would have gone straight to work at 18 or even 16 or done professional qualifications for banking, accountancy etc rather than a degree first.
    We are re-creating 'sort of' second tier nurses, though, with Health Care assistants. And, to be fair, it's a more technical job now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878
    dixiedean said:

    I was most scathing about the prospect of a cut and run election a few weeks ago.
    Now, I'm not too sure.

    I just can't see it. 80 majority for the next two years, or frankly a high chance of losing it all. Yes you can argue that the economy is going to the dogs (but I'm not convinced thats the whole picture, as gas spot prices are indicating). We don't know what 2024 will look like. We could be knee deep in covid again, or covid may have fully receded from peoples memory.

    And an election now, even if the Conservatives won is unlikely to be a thumping win, so a reduced majority at best with rebellious back benchers?

    I just don't see it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    Have you not heard
    Yes. I've heard the rumours. I'm hoping they are false
    Officially announced by RTD yesterday

    Should bring in a younger audience even if a few racist homophobes tune out
    I meant the rumours about tennant returning for the 60th
  • I think we're on for an election in 2022 at this rate.

    Economy is only going to get worse.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    An interesting piece. Many years ago when Graham Hancock and others used historic star chart simulations to speculate that the Sphinx was a much older monument than thought and predated the Egyptians by thousands of years, he was scoffed at, because hunter-gatherers don’t build things like that. And yet the scale of what is being uncovered in Turkey from the same era in his hypothesis, arguably exceeds the Sphinx in impressiveness (if not yet the pyramids of Giza).

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    He's a horrible creature.
    Who Stuart?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    No wonder the Tories want to stop university education

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    It certainly explains why Tories are so keen to keep the masses out of Universities. A thick population is a Tory one and don't you see it.
    Perhaps it would be better if we learned skills and had industry rather than pointless knowledge about arse. And I speak as a philosophy graduate.
    It's a ridiculous view that non university = thick.
    The whole point of university is to expand knowledge and academic research. Until 30 years ago that is why no more than 10% went to university.

    Now 30 to 40% of young people are graduates, including most nurses, when previously many of them would have gone straight to work at 18 or even 16 or done professional qualifications for banking, accountancy etc rather than a degree first.
    We are re-creating 'sort of' second tier nurses, though, with Health Care assistants. And, to be fair, it's a more technical job now.
    There are certainly arguments for degree level nurses but it matches the pattern in other jobs too, accountants, stockbrokers, the police, middle managers, primary school teachers, even solicitors were also often non graduates. Now the majority have a degree. As many new universities doing vocational courses have emerged beyond the traditional universities doing mainly academic research
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878
    kjh said:

    Applicant said:

    kjh said:

    OT. I am going to ask a question, but please don't answer. Just say whether you got it straight away or had to think about it.

    What is the longest river that flows into the Mediterranean?

    About two seconds of "is there an obvious one?" and picturing a map of the Med before realising that there is, indeed, an obvious one.
    I'll wait a bit before explaining why I asked the question. You may of unintentionally helped others. This was posed by Paul Sinha and I found the response fascinating.
    Is it about Eurocentrism vs Afrocentrism?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    He's a horrible creature.
    Who Stuart?
    Sean T (but only joking).
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    Have you not heard
    Yes. I've heard the rumours. I'm hoping they are false
    Officially announced by RTD yesterday

    Should bring in a younger audience even if a few racist homophobes tune out
    I meant the rumours about tennant returning for the 60th
    Chances are a number of former Doctors will return for the 60th because that is how Dr Who has always celebrated their anniversaries that way.
  • To be honest it does seem to indicate this has been brought up by Labour lefties not the Tories.

    I can't see what is in it for the Tories to give this so much attention, because it only ends badly for them unless by some miracle Starmer stays and is fined - I can't believe he will

    I agree that I expect this has come from disaffected Labour lefties, but thinking neutrally and cynically, I expect Boris and the Tories must be loving this and can't believe their luck.

    This has turned the story from "look what the nasty Tories have been doing" to a "they're all as bad as each other" story. That will take some of the poison out of the story for the Tories.

    Furthermore Tories are quite deliberately not attacking Starmer in public, no doubt as they know it can be turned against them, which was the mistake that Starmer made. By making the attacks on Boris himself rather than leaving it to his attack dogs, his own words are now used against him and probably fatal to his leadership. The Tories are staying out of the fray and leaving it to the Labour left and attack dogs to take on Starmer.

    If Starmer falls over this, I expect Boris will simply say that he's "getting on with the job" and the public will just get fed up with this story thinking they're all as bad as each other and move on.

    At the next election it will be the Cost of Living, pay rates, standard of living and other related issues that determine the election not beer, curries or parties.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited May 2022
    nova said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Ipsos MORI provided a qualification comparison for different age bands for GE2019. There is a little residual effect from qualification, but it is absolutely swamped by the age difference.

    The clearest impact is an increase in Liberal Democrat voting with increasing level of education.


    Thanks for sharing the graph.
    I think there's a big drop in voting Tory from having a degree shown there, but mainly benefits the Lib Dems.
    Is there anywhere a graph from 20-25 years ago making the same comparison? In other words, is this a new phenomenon? As OGH pints out, the Americans have dividing samples up this way for a long time.
    Not that I've seen, but see how things have changed. Here you'll find out how people voted in 1992 based on whether they have a home phone!

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-1992
    Thanks. Also noted that 30 years ago 45-54yr-olds were much more likely to vote Tory. We're in our 80's now.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721
    SKS is the man in black with yellow socks

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1523336062801629185
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    eek said:

    ✍️ "The casting of Gatwa, who is hugely popular with teens and twentysomethings, suggests the BBC has now given up trying to please these older viewers and is focusing fairly and squarely on younger audiences." | Writes Michael Hogan

    The BBC is not appealing to young viewers, they are all going to Netflix.

    BBC hires an actor to appeal to young viewers.

    No not like that!

    I concur great casting
    Jodie Whittaker was great casting. It was the writing and production that ballsed things up. I'm waiting to see what the new chap does.
    I trust RTD.

    Whittaker could have been good but she was destined to fail with useless Chibnall at the helm
    RTD is a Socialist too.

    Dr Who will improve under his renewed tenure cant wait to see it
    As long as he doesn't bring that painful twat Tennant back
    Start again with Eccleston
    Have you not heard
    Yes. I've heard the rumours. I'm hoping they are false
    Officially announced by RTD yesterday

    Should bring in a younger audience even if a few racist homophobes tune out
    I meant the rumours about tennant returning for the 60th
    Chances are a number of former Doctors will return for the 60th because that is how Dr Who has always celebrated their anniversaries that way.
    Yes, I hope to see all of them except Tennant
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,721
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Immensely long article in the Spectator by that awful SeanT guy, who - Stuart tells me - still lurks here

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-an-unknown-extraordinarily-ancient-civilisation-lie-buried-under-eastern-turkey-

    He's a horrible creature.
    Who Stuart?
    Sean T (but only joking).
    I know me too
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    Yesterday's Wordle answer was a Geordie word, but it still took me 6 attempts to get it.

    A canny poor effort.

    Wor Lass got it in 4, which was canny good.

    Six again today, btw.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo losing support among people who think for a living...

    A common phrase doing the rounds in Tory circles is 'the Conservatives are now the party of doers, while Labour are the party of the thinkers in London.'

    Though really most Conservative governments have been elected with some thinkers as well as doers, not least as thinkers help produce policy and legislation etc
This discussion has been closed.