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The fog of war – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Yokes said:

    nico679 said:

    How do these donated weapons get to where they’re needed .

    Won’t they be sitting targets crossing by road once they enter Ukraine .

    They already are being delivered across uncontested crossings by military and unmarked vehicles. A quick look at the map will tell you where. There is, however, no clarity on how much kit has been sent & how it is getting them to the front line, that methodology is unclear.

    There has been no attempt to interfere with it, yet, but, sitting south of Brest, that group of Russian and shortly Belarus military (reportedly 5am local time for their entrance to the party) , might have something to say about it in time.
    This logistics is precisely my big fear now ☹️

    Absolutely no chance from the air then?
    This is a very ignorant and naive question but just how easy is it to assemble and operate this 'kit'?

    I ask as someone who struggles with anything as complicated as a flatpack from Ikea.
    One of the important things about the missiles kit we sent them is that they do not require much training. It is not as 'good' as other kit, but it can be used easily, and is fire-and-forget. Whether it is 'good' depends on the mission.

    Of course, the Russians may be facing the same problems.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kle4 said:

    #Breaking: Swiss President @IgnazioCassis says it is "very probable" that Switzerland will follow the European Union tomorrow in sanctioning Russia and its freezing assets.

    https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1498016520554876932

    Meanwhile Putin’s been told “sanctions are nothing to worry about”….

    That does surprise me. It would be heartening that invasion would be one of those things that people don't just pretend is businss as normal.
    Isn't that how Swiss banks make money? Take the money, freeze it and then live off the interest for eternity?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    edited February 2022
    ydoethur said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    Are you still here? I hope you end up in the Hague with Putin and Lukeshenko. William Joyce of course got his comeuppance at Nuremberg.
    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Joyce was actually tried at the Old Bailey, not at Nuremberg. Only senior members of the Nazi party were tried at Nuremberg.
    Blimey you were quick off the blocks. Vanilla saves a post even after deletion hence the two quotes in my post. I had my doubts, checked and realised my error prior to posting, but it saved it regardless, but thanks anyway.

    I am now forever humiliated in the face of Putin's number one misinformer. The shame!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    Me. I've been reading post apocalypse sci fi so long, I want to know who was right. The Road? Riddley Walker? Leibowitz?
    Philip K Dick - Dr Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb.
    What's the consensus these days on the impact of an all-out nuclear holocaust?

    End of life on earth? The human race? Civilisation as we know it? The EU?

    Or just the TV licence?
    Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere but still with pockets of life. Better in the South. Humanity and the planet will both survive.

    Edit - the TV licence will stay obviously. Great value for money apparently :)
    Although with just 23 viewers left alive in the UK the BBC will have to cut its budget somewhat.
    Dads Army on repeat for ever more.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    sclerotic

    EU announces it has agreed unanimously amongst all member countries to take in Ukrainian refugees fir up to 3 years without asking them to first apply for asylum. Just been announced following a meeting of EU Interior ministers
    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1498017173792514051
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    kle4 said:

    PJohnson said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Belarus poised to declare war on Ukraine as special forces are 'loaded onto planes in preparation for major air assault on Kyiv'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10557221/Ukraine-war-Belarus-poised-declare-war-special-forces-loaded-planes-in.html

    Yep it's not just the nuclear threat, we are right on the verge of a huge escalation dragging in other countries.

    The western world, probably the whole world, stands right now on the edge of a precipice.

    The best hope is that Russian generals see sense and remove the madman. We need to incentivise them to do so.
    Yes. This feels awfully dangerous now. We are one or two geopolitical missteps from a massive war across eastern Europe. And a couple more errors from actual nuclear conflict

    Agreed Leon russias concerns should have been listened to more before they invaded Ukraine...
    That is perhaps true. I have argued as much here (to great unpopularity).

    But .... it needs to be said clearly that there is no rational justification for this war.

    Attempts to use the situation in Donbass as a pretext for launching a huge military operation are wrong.

    The situation in the Donbass did need sorting, but not by a massive escalation of the conflict.

    The war is unfair and frankly senseless.

    It needs stopping before it gets completely out of hand.

    We need to put pressure on both sides to talk and accept some sensible compromise.
    That your second to fifth paragraphs are true is why the first sentence was wrong and thus unpopular. It supposes something could have been done to mollify Putin, yet his explanations for action argue against that being possible.

    When the concerns expressed and demands made were not all rational (Ukraine is not a real country, NATO expanded 25 years ago and that means my aggression now makes sense...) there is not really a means to meet those expressing them halfway. An irrational concern cannot be sensibly addressed.

    Ukraine is the weaker party and absent a lengthy guerilla war probably cannot expect to get out of this without conceding something it would rather not, so may find that the lesser evil to choose. But any such concession would not make the demands and concerns as set out in great detail by Putin as part of absurd historical grievances any more reasonable.
    The sensible thing to do now is get the disputed areas (Crimea. Donetsk and Luhansk) demilitarised and under UN peacekeeping forces ... and hold a plebiscite.

    Which is what I have been saying all along.
    That rewards Putin for his actions.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Yokes said:

    nico679 said:

    How do these donated weapons get to where they’re needed .

    Won’t they be sitting targets crossing by road once they enter Ukraine .

    They already are being delivered across uncontested crossings by military and unmarked vehicles. A quick look at the map will tell you where. There is, however, no clarity on how much kit has been sent & how it is getting them to the front line, that methodology is unclear.

    There has been no attempt to interfere with it, yet, but, sitting south of Brest, that group of Russian and shortly Belarus military (reportedly 5am local time for their entrance to the party) , might have something to say about it in time.
    This logistics is precisely my big fear now ☹️

    Absolutely no chance from the air then?
    This is a very ignorant and naive question but just how easy is it to assemble and operate this 'kit'?

    I ask as someone who struggles with anything as complicated as a flatpack from Ikea.
    Why can’t you males just study the instructions first over a coffee like us girls do?

    More seriously Once P Johnson posts his dream post of Kyiv and Khartick and others surrounded, sealed, to be delivered; nothing gets in nothing gets out? Not even blood and oxygen?

    But I’m guessing there will still be enough communications working Putin can’t stop, so can continue to organise the fight back in a joined up way?
  • Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    If I was living in, say, Thailand then I would. I've craved getting back to nature and to the wild. Just not quite via this route.

    I was watching Octopussy with my son earlier. Making our way through James Bond films.

    I'd always considered the plot a bit far-fetched until today: you know, a deranged ex KGB officer who wants to set off a nuclear bomb in the west ...
    There's probably a number of places in the world where one could continue post-apocalypse without it necessarily being post-apocalypse. Certainly though Britain isn't going to be one of those.
    Been through Birmingham lately? Not sure how many would notice the difference.

    (Seriously, it's a great city, and will be greater still when they finish building it.)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
  • Scott_xP said:

    New: Poland immediately rejects FIFA's ruling saying it won't play a Russia team regardless of the name it uses after the attempt at an "RFU" compromise name

    https://twitter.com/Czarek_Kulesza/status/1498018729619345421

    I bet FIFA want Ukraine to surrender.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    edited February 2022
    JohnO said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Actually the Old Bailey.
    Blimey you were, along with Ydoethur also quick off the blocks. Vanilla saves a post even after deletion hence the two quotes in my post. I had my doubts, checked and realised my error prior to posting, but it saved it regardless, but thanks anyway.

    I am now forever humiliated in the face of Putin's number one misinformer. The shame!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    Taz said:

    PJohnson said:

    PJohnson said:

    PJohnson said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zelensky’s starting point is going to be a Russian withdrawal to the pre-2014 borders, giving up Donbass and Crimea.

    Zelensky can’t negotiate away the international sanctions, that are about to tank the markets and cause bank runs in Moscow tomorrow morning.

    Oh, and by the way, he has another few thousand NATO-spec anti-tank weapons, and a few hundred NATO-spec anti-aircraft weapons, ready for the next few thousand tanks and few hundred aircraft that try and get to Kiev.


    Negotiations difficult now both sides all in...Ukraine will have to put their egos aside a bit and listen to russias concerns...and vice versa
    The only concern in this is when will Putin be deposed and put on trial for war crimes
    We cannot base policy on wild hopes
    Who is 'We'?

    Most posters on PB know each other, in many cases personally but otherwise through reputation and thousands of posts. On the evidence of a handful of posts I should say you are a troll, and your views - if indeed they are yours - have attracted well-merited contempt.

    You don't speak for anybody except yourself and whoever might be marking your card.
    I speak from a deep knowledge of history and human nature...my concern is humanity as a whole...many posters on here are superficial
    You noticed?

    We like Sean. He’s like our own little pet tarantula. Vile, poisonous and icky. But strangely mesmerising.
    Spiders are venomous, not poisonous, and no tarantula is venomous to mankind. They are mesmerising I agree. Indian ornamentals especially.
    Ok. Fine. Sean is vile, venomous and icky. Happy now?

    And our red under the Reading bed called us “superficial”? Pffff.
    If a trans man or woman asked you to refer to them as “they” rather than by their birth gender I have no doubt you would do so out of politeness even if you disagree with their actions.

    So when @Leon has requested you stop calling him “Sean” why do you insist on doing so?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Been through Birmingham lately? Not sure how many would notice the difference.

    (Seriously, it's a great city, and will be greater still when they finish building it.)

    Coventry on the other hand...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    JohnO said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Actually the Old Bailey.
    Blimey you were, along with Ydoethur also quick off the blocks. Vanilla saves a post even after deletion hence the two quotes in my post. I had my doubts, checked and realised my error prior to posting, but it saved it regardless, but thanks anyway.

    I am now forever humiliated in the face of Putin's number one misinformer. The shame!
    Never mind, you said it with great conviction.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    You vs the man she told you not to worry about https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1498027611708030978/photo/1





  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Scott_xP said:

    New: Poland immediately rejects FIFA's ruling saying it won't play a Russia team regardless of the name it uses after the attempt at an "RFU" compromise name

    https://twitter.com/Czarek_Kulesza/status/1498018729619345421

    I bet FIFA want Ukraine to surrender.
    They need to be careful. FIFA has no God given right to exist...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groats, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    Not really. Sutherland and Caithness are pretty flat.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    FIFA: OK you can still play, but please call yourself RFU.
    EVERYONE: That is some f'ing weak tea, FIFA, sort yourself out.
    UK HOME OFFICE: Hold my beer...
    https://twitter.com/darshnasoni/status/1498025179955580941
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    Me. I've been reading post apocalypse sci fi so long, I want to know who was right. The Road? Riddley Walker? Leibowitz?
    Philip K Dick - Dr Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb.
    What's the consensus these days on the impact of an all-out nuclear holocaust?

    End of life on earth? The human race? Civilisation as we know it? The EU?

    Or just the TV licence?
    Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere but still with pockets of life. Better in the South. Humanity and the planet will both survive.

    Edit - the TV licence will stay obviously. Great value for money apparently :)
    I wouldn’t be able to survive one nuclear winter without Emmerdale. 😔
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Scott_xP said:

    New: Poland immediately rejects FIFA's ruling saying it won't play a Russia team regardless of the name it uses after the attempt at an "RFU" compromise name

    https://twitter.com/Czarek_Kulesza/status/1498018729619345421

    Will still be the case even if FIFA rule they can play under "These are just Russian footballers but Putin is an insane murderous bastard FC", so think FIFA probably need to properly get with the programme on this one.
  • ydoethur said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    Are you still here? I hope you end up in the Hague with Putin and Lukeshenko. William Joyce of course got his comeuppance at Nuremberg.
    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Joyce was actually tried at the Old Bailey, not at Nuremberg. Only senior members of the Nazi party were tried at Nuremberg.
    Blimey you were quick off the blocks. Vanilla saves a post even after deletion hence the two quotes in my post. I had my doubts, checked and realised my error prior to posting, but it saved it regardless, but thanks anyway.

    I am now forever humiliated in the face of Putin's number one misinformer. The shame!
    Hanging him was a silly unnecessary piece of vindictiveness. My parents said nobody took any notice. A few listened because they thought he was funny.

    He had zero impact on the war.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    Kosovo has asked for NATO membership according to Twitter
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    If I was living in, say, Thailand then I would. I've craved getting back to nature and to the wild. Just not quite via this route.

    I was watching Octopussy with my son earlier. Making our way through James Bond films.

    I'd always considered the plot a bit far-fetched until today: you know, a deranged ex KGB officer who wants to set off a nuclear bomb in the west ...
    There's probably a number of places in the world where one could continue post-apocalypse without it necessarily being post-apocalypse. Certainly though Britain isn't going to be one of those.
    Been through Birmingham lately? Not sure how many would notice the difference.

    (Seriously, it's a great city, and will be greater still when they finish building it.)
    So long as that ridiculous silver Debenhams monstrosity doesn't survive. Come to think of it, it already looks like the after from a direct nuclear hit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
    That changes nothing I said at all.

    Highland boundary fault or not the distance between Faslane and John O'Groats is bigger than the distance between London and Manchester as I said.

    Indeed the existence of mountains in the Highlands of Scotland adds just further to that distance effectively
  • After intense street battles on Sunday, footage verified by The Times showed the charred remains of Russian military vehicles on the outskirts of Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv.

    NY Times

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/27/world/russia-ukraine-war
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    New: Poland immediately rejects FIFA's ruling saying it won't play a Russia team regardless of the name it uses after the attempt at an "RFU" compromise name

    https://twitter.com/Czarek_Kulesza/status/1498018729619345421

    I bet FIFA want Ukraine to surrender.
    They need to be careful. FIFA has no God given right to exist...
    Don't tell them that.
  • Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    If I was living in, say, Thailand then I would. I've craved getting back to nature and to the wild. Just not quite via this route.

    I was watching Octopussy with my son earlier. Making our way through James Bond films.

    I'd always considered the plot a bit far-fetched until today: you know, a deranged ex KGB officer who wants to set off a nuclear bomb in the west ...
    There's probably a number of places in the world where one could continue post-apocalypse without it necessarily being post-apocalypse. Certainly though Britain isn't going to be one of those.
    Been through Birmingham lately? Not sure how many would notice the difference.

    (Seriously, it's a great city, and will be greater still when they finish building it.)
    So long as that ridiculous silver Debenhams monstrosity doesn't survive. Come to think of it, it already looks like the after from a direct nuclear hit.
    I always remember Mike Harding saying that Hitler didn't bomb Wath on Dearne because he wanted to be able to see where he'd been attacking.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    Me. I've been reading post apocalypse sci fi so long, I want to know who was right. The Road? Riddley Walker? Leibowitz?
    Philip K Dick - Dr Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb.
    What's the consensus these days on the impact of an all-out nuclear holocaust?

    End of life on earth? The human race? Civilisation as we know it? The EU?

    Or just the TV licence?
    Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere but still with pockets of life. Better in the South. Humanity and the planet will both survive.

    Edit - the TV licence will stay obviously. Great value for money apparently :)
    Although with just 23 viewers left alive in the UK the BBC will have to cut its budget somewhat.
    Well that’s one positive.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,327
    edited February 2022

    Yokes said:

    nico679 said:

    How do these donated weapons get to where they’re needed .

    Won’t they be sitting targets crossing by road once they enter Ukraine .

    They already are being delivered across uncontested crossings by military and unmarked vehicles. A quick look at the map will tell you where. There is, however, no clarity on how much kit has been sent & how it is getting them to the front line, that methodology is unclear.

    There has been no attempt to interfere with it, yet, but, sitting south of Brest, that group of Russian and shortly Belarus military (reportedly 5am local time for their entrance to the party) , might have something to say about it in time.
    This logistics is precisely my big fear now ☹️

    Absolutely no chance from the air then?
    This is a very ignorant and naive question but just how easy is it to assemble and operate this 'kit'?

    I ask as someone who struggles with anything as complicated as a flatpack from Ikea.
    Its small arms and unguided anti armour weaponry mainly so not hard to start using it as its coming in pretty much ready to go out of the box. Someone can be taught the basic function of a LAW in a few minutes.

    The Stingers and the likes of the Javelin Anti armour weapons do need some thinking & skill to operate well.

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
    That changes nothing I said at all.

    Highland boundary fault or not the distance between Faslane and John O'Groats is bigger than the distance between London and Manchester as I said
    It changes the previous point you were making that Faslane wasn't in (or even near) the Highlands.

    I'm glad you have dropped that. Faslane is in the Highlands. And, yes, the Highlands is a big place.

    Along with Thailand it's my favourite place on earth.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Scott_xP said:

    New: Poland immediately rejects FIFA's ruling saying it won't play a Russia team regardless of the name it uses after the attempt at an "RFU" compromise name

    https://twitter.com/Czarek_Kulesza/status/1498018729619345421

    I bet FIFA want Ukraine to surrender.
    It's a weird one isn't it.

    No team is going to agree to play Russia, so the last thing FIFA will want is for them to qualify for the World Cup finals.

    Surely the obvious thing to do is to ban them now. Just ask Hungary (the next best placed Nations League team IIRC) to take their place in the play-off against Poland.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    If I was living in, say, Thailand then I would. I've craved getting back to nature and to the wild. Just not quite via this route.

    I was watching Octopussy with my son earlier. Making our way through James Bond films.

    I'd always considered the plot a bit far-fetched until today: you know, a deranged ex KGB officer who wants to set off a nuclear bomb in the west ...
    There's probably a number of places in the world where one could continue post-apocalypse without it necessarily being post-apocalypse. Certainly though Britain isn't going to be one of those.
    Been through Birmingham lately? Not sure how many would notice the difference.

    (Seriously, it's a great city, and will be greater still when they finish building it.)
    So long as that ridiculous silver Debenhams monstrosity doesn't survive. Come to think of it, it already looks like the after from a direct nuclear hit.
    I always remember Mike Harding saying that Hitler didn't bomb Wath on Dearne because he wanted to be able to see where he'd been attacking.
    It was said of Birmingham "what the Luftwaffe didn't destroy the town planners did".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    BoZo fluffs it again

    NEW: Boris Johnson announces any Ukrainian settled in the UK will be allowed *immediate* family members fleeing the war to join them.

    But PM stops short of saying *any* family members could come, which I'm told was under discussion earlier.

    Will be under pressure to do more.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1498030463469899782
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,830
    edited February 2022
    I HAVEN'T HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL TO KYIV AND VERIFY THE CLAIMS IN THIS TWEET. DYOR.

    The Kyiv Independent
    @KyivIndependent

    ⚡️Klitschko's spokesperson denies that Kyiv is 'encircled.'

    In an interview with AP, Kyiv’s Mayor Vitali Klitschko said that ‘Kyiv was encircled’ but ready to fight.

    His spokesperson said that he misspoke, and that such information is “a lie and a manipulation.”
    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498024824991625216
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
    That changes nothing I said at all.

    Highland boundary fault or not the distance between Faslane and John O'Groats is bigger than the distance between London and Manchester as I said
    It changes the previous point you were making that Faslane wasn't in (or even near) the Highlands.

    I'm glad you have dropped that. Faslane is in the Highlands. And, yes, the Highlands is a big place.

    Along with Thailand it's my favourite place on earth.
    Isn’t this a typical attack on HYUFD, accusing him of saying something he didn’t actually say. He said it wasn’t near the central highlands.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Yokes said:

    The Stingers and the likes of the Javelin Anti armour weapons do need some thinking & skill to operate well.

    See Four Lions...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
    I have to say I am pleased how often geology is coming up in these discussions the last few days. :)
    :smiley:

    I was very tempted to mention tectonics ...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Scott_xP said:

    New: Poland immediately rejects FIFA's ruling saying it won't play a Russia team regardless of the name it uses after the attempt at an "RFU" compromise name

    https://twitter.com/Czarek_Kulesza/status/1498018729619345421

    I bet FIFA want Ukraine to surrender.
    It's a weird one isn't it.

    No team is going to agree to play Russia, so the last thing FIFA will want is for them to qualify for the World Cup finals.

    Surely the obvious thing to do is to ban them now. Just ask Hungary (the next best placed Nations League team IIRC) to take their place in the play-off against Poland.
    Russia made the play-offs via the qualifiers, so I think Slovakia (third in that group) are next in line.
  • The UN Security Council adopted a resolution to call for an emergency session of the General Assembly which will convene in the next 24 hours. It is the first time such a session has been called in decades, said U.S. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield, because “This is not ordinary moment. We need to take extraordinary action to meet this threat to our international system and to do everything we can to help Ukraine and its people.”

    Ny Times
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    ydoethur said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    Are you still here? I hope you end up in the Hague with Putin and Lukeshenko. William Joyce of course got his comeuppance at Nuremberg.
    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Joyce was actually tried at the Old Bailey, not at Nuremberg. Only senior members of the Nazi party were tried at Nuremberg.
    Was he not technically British either, so really was wrongfully convicted?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,327

    Kosovo has asked for NATO membership according to Twitter

    Well that's going to open a new front...hello Serbians who seem to spend a lot of time shuttling back and forth to Moscow.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited February 2022
    Cookie said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    I think we can allow ourselves a cheer, though, that the invasion has gone much less well than we feared. Every day it goes on costs Vlad another $20bn. Every tank taken out of operation by the Ukrainians sets the Russians back. Five days ago, the fear was that the Ukraine would be the first domino, which would be followed by The Baltics, Georgia, Poland, Scandinavia... The heroism of the Ukrainians has made the second step that much more difficult for Vlad.
    I debunked that number. Just about credible in Roubles.

    $20bn a day is the entire Russian GDP in 11 weeks.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groats, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    Not really. Sutherland and Caithness are pretty flat.
    Wasn’t there a discussion here, in which my fellow Essex man was involved, about a ferry between Inverness and Ullapool. Or similar!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    edited February 2022
    This is how it ends...


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    Me. I've been reading post apocalypse sci fi so long, I want to know who was right. The Road? Riddley Walker? Leibowitz?
    Philip K Dick - Dr Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb.
    What's the consensus these days on the impact of an all-out nuclear holocaust?

    End of life on earth? The human race? Civilisation as we know it? The EU?

    Or just the TV licence?
    Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere but still with pockets of life. Better in the South. Humanity and the planet will both survive.

    Edit - the TV licence will stay obviously. Great value for money apparently :)
    Although with just 23 viewers left alive in the UK the BBC will have to cut its budget somewhat.
    End of Lineker methinks.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Scott_xP said:

    You vs the man she told you not to worry about https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1498027611708030978/photo/1





    A pussy versus a really HARD stare...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    ydoethur said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    Are you still here? I hope you end up in the Hague with Putin and Lukeshenko. William Joyce of course got his comeuppance at Nuremberg.
    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Joyce was actually tried at the Old Bailey, not at Nuremberg. Only senior members of the Nazi party were tried at Nuremberg.
    Was he not technically British either, so really was wrongfully convicted?
    American by birth, I had thought him Irish. I learned that when I went to correct my error that Vanilla re-saved after deletion and posted anyway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groats, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    Not really. Sutherland and Caithness are pretty flat.
    Wasn’t there a discussion here, in which my fellow Essex man was involved, about a ferry between Inverness and Ullapool. Or similar!
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/2114112#Comment_2114112
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    Me. I've been reading post apocalypse sci fi so long, I want to know who was right. The Road? Riddley Walker? Leibowitz?
    Philip K Dick - Dr Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb.
    What's the consensus these days on the impact of an all-out nuclear holocaust?

    End of life on earth? The human race? Civilisation as we know it? The EU?

    Or just the TV licence?
    Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere but still with pockets of life. Better in the South. Humanity and the planet will both survive.

    Edit - the TV licence will stay obviously. Great value for money apparently :)
    Although with just 23 viewers left alive in the UK the BBC will have to cut its budget somewhat.
    End of Lineker methinks.
    GBNews, like cockroaches, nonetheless survives intact.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    edited February 2022
    One of my knitting group friends suggested buying patterns from Ukrainian designers, so I've bought several knitting patterns from designers on Ravelry and put some dollars into the accounts of Ukrainian women who could probably do with the money now.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,058
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    I think we can allow ourselves a cheer, though, that the invasion has gone much less well than we feared. Every day it goes on costs Vlad another $20bn. Every tank taken out of operation by the Ukrainians sets the Russians back. Five days ago, the fear was that the Ukraine would be the first domino, which would be followed by The Baltics, Georgia, Poland, Scandinavia... The heroism of the Ukrainians has made the second step that much more difficult for Vlad.
    I debunked that number. Just about credible in Roubles.

    $20bn a day is the entire Russian GDP in 11 weeks.
    Assuming your figure is correct, it'll be the entire Russian GDP in around 20 weeks when markets open tomorrow and the Ruble tanks.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    If Putin has come to the end of the road he might try to take the rest of us with him.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    You vs the man she told you not to worry about https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1498027611708030978/photo/1





    A pussy versus a really HARD stare...
    I assume from the memes that we’ve already done “Zhelensky did the Ukrainian voiceover for Paddington” here?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,327
    US is reportedly telling its citizens to exit Russia whilst they still can according to NYTimes.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    RobD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
    That changes nothing I said at all.

    Highland boundary fault or not the distance between Faslane and John O'Groats is bigger than the distance between London and Manchester as I said
    It changes the previous point you were making that Faslane wasn't in (or even near) the Highlands.

    I'm glad you have dropped that. Faslane is in the Highlands. And, yes, the Highlands is a big place.

    Along with Thailand it's my favourite place on earth.
    Isn’t this a typical attack on HYUFD, accusing him of saying something he didn’t actually say. He said it wasn’t near the central highlands.
    No he slipped in the word 'central' later on having originally spoken of 'The Highlands of Scotland'.

    When I pointed out to him, gently, that Faslane is actually in the Highlands he then moved the goalposts.
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    One of my knitting group friends suggested buying patterns from Ukrainian designers, so I've bought several knitting patterns from designers on Ravelry and put some dollars into the accounts of Ukrainian women who could probably do with the money now.

    Ironically onlyfans have deleted all Russian accounts which has destroyed the income of a large number of “innocent”. young Russian women.

    Although innocent probably only works in a legal rather than “moral” sense but hey sex is money.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    geoffw said:

    If Putin has come to the end of the road he might try to take the rest of us with him.

    Russian state TV: “Our submarines alone can launch more than 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and NATO for good measure. The principle is: why do we need the world if Russia won’t be in it?”
    https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1498022807627829250
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited February 2022
    moonshine said:

    What we really need is some of those semi-mythical accounts of UFO's shutting down nuclear weapon systems. One or two of those accounts are quite interesting - where's Moonshine when you need him to discuss the details.

    I am here. Was busy yesterday buying tinned and dry food. I’m still expecting cyber warfare to make life uncomfortable for us. Not planning for nuclear, what’s the point.

    People irl have asked me about whether aliens would save us from nuclear war. I not aware of any evidence of aliens/ufo pilots taking any interest at all in reducing unnecessary human suffering century in the 20th century. Despite similar sightings to the tic tac being made at least as far back as WW2. Old stories about “angels” in the trenches in WW1 but not a lot of evidence to go on. Anyway perhaps if it’s Armageddon they’d take a different view and save us from ourselves, if we / life on earth are their creation for example. I wouldn’t hold out for it though. They could just wait a few half lives instead and try afresh.

    And yes, there’s notable on the record accounts of UAP incidents coinciding with the sudden inexplicable disabling of nuclear weapons in both the U.S. and USSR. The story from the North Dakota silo particularly good. So they probably could if they wanted.
    Interesting, because as you say the USSR seems to have had their own versions of the accounts of the USAF men's accounts, obviously very hard to verify.

    "In 1982, one of the Soviet nuclear bases was brought online, and for no apparent reason a nuclear missile was ready to launch. After 30 seconds of panic and chaos, the launch was aborted as mysteriously as it had appeared. Witnesses claimed that there had been some UFO activity near the area of the base - thus the reason for the cover-up."

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    By the way, this isn't mere play. If you talk to the residents around Faslane they are acutely aware that it would be the No.1 nuclear target.

    So, no, some of the Highlands are certainly not the safest place to be.

    (I'm assuming everyone knows it's the home of our Trident nuclear subs)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    Scott_xP said:

    I understand that Liz Truss's surprising comments on Brits going to fight in Ukraine this morning took No 10 by surprise...
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/foreign-secretary-liz-truss-back-26341016

    They were Ill-advised.

    To be fair to her she realised halfway through she’d screwed up and started to back peddle
    Liz Truss answered instinctively, and in the liberal tradition of England to be fair to her, didn’t she? A country that for centuries is happy to provide a safe haven to radical people of all sorts of views, who could be unsafe if they didn’t flee homeland, even Lenin and Stalin lived in London, in Chelsea I think.

    Truss did mean whatever your views on this war, British passport holder, but with family ties with one of the protagonists, it’s okay to go and fight for them in this war and come back in afterwards. So politically and morally that is right, fits in with our history and what UK has always been about, just legally it’s tricky?

    It would be how it all ties up legally would be a problem wouldn’t it. In this case it’s straightforward in layman’s eyes - Putin, and a few dozen bastards in a bunker, versus the rest of the world, but courts would need something for less clear cut cases where one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter?
    She replied affirmatively to the question “does the Uk government support” and backpedal to “it’s an individual decision”.

    She should have gone with “what Putin is doing is dreadful, we utterly condemn it. Clearly it’s a personal decision, but we would quite understand if…”
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    ydoethur said:

    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    The amphibious landing force has probably helped them there. In general, I think that we're all celebrating the failure of the invason a bit prematurely - it's only been going for a few days and Kyiv is apparently surrounded. Not clear what the Russians plan next there, though - fighting for it street by street must sound unappealing to the most gung-ho general.
    Yes you are correct Nick what you WANT to happen is not the same as what will happen
    Are you still here? I hope you end up in the Hague with Putin and Lukeshenko. William Joyce of course got his comeuppance at Nuremberg.
    PJohnson said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    More seriously (BBC journalist).
    Russian troops are in Berdyansk. They're getting closer to Mariupol. Also not clear about the northern direction - Volnovakha I heard was totally cut off by Russian troops. They're encircling Mariupol from all sides.
    https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1497998348992798730

    It certainly looks as if the southern front is the one that the Russians are winning. Hard to know whether by accident or design.
    I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
    Are you still here?

    I look forward to seeing you in the Hague alongside Putin and Lukashenko.

    It didn't end well for William Joyce did it?
    Joyce was actually tried at the Old Bailey, not at Nuremberg. Only senior members of the Nazi party were tried at Nuremberg.
    Was he not technically British either, so really was wrongfully convicted?
    American by birth, I had thought him Irish. I learned that when I went to correct my error that Vanilla re-saved after deletion and posted anyway.
    Clearly I wasn’t there at the time, but I’ve always felt he was a bit hard done to. He took German citizenship and then broadcast for his (now) country. Executing him for treason feels wrong. No doubt passions were running high.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Highlands of Scotland?!?

    I ought not be surprised after your pig-ignorance regarding Trident this morning.
    Faslane is near the coast not the central Highlands.

    Wow not your best post HYUFD. I was at Faslane in October. I can assure you it is indeed near the Highlands although I notice you have very, very, naughtily added the word 'central'!!!!

    Faslane is at the top of Garelochhead and the start of the Trosachs.

    Geologically Faslane is actually in the Highlands because the dividing line of the central belt runs along the Clyde, just south of Helensburgh.

    Anyway, the point is that Faslane is very close to the Highlands, as I said. Geologically it's actually in them.
    There are 265 miles from Faslane to John O'Groaths, all covered by the Highlands.

    That is more than the distance from London to Manchester
    So what?

    The Highlands are a big place.

    You are completely wrong about this HY and if I were you I'd just back out now. Or take a look at the map of the Highlands which has Faslane in them.

    The geological fault, which is so interesting, runs right down the Clyde, well to the south of Faslane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands#/media/File:Scottish_Highlands_and_Lowlands.png

    I do know what I'm talking about. And if you don't believe me then a geologist will explain it to you in this Michael Portillo programme. The geologist Dr Ian Neill, Geologist and Lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Your re-education begins at the 3 minute mark:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014kz5/great-coastal-railway-journeys-series-1-17-helensburgh-to-connel
    I have to say I am pleased how often geology is coming up in these discussions the last few days. :)
    All discussion eventually metamorphose into one involving geology.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    #BREAKING: EU countries will provide #Ukraine with 'fighter jets' under Brussels funding, says
    @JosepBorrellF

    https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1498030112230592512

    Wow. Hopefully the US gives them some drones as well.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    nico679 said:

    How do these donated weapons get to where they’re needed .

    Won’t they be sitting targets crossing by road once they enter Ukraine .

    They already are being delivered across uncontested crossings by military and unmarked vehicles. A quick look at the map will tell you where. There is, however, no clarity on how much kit has been sent & how it is getting them to the front line, that methodology is unclear.

    There has been no attempt to interfere with it, yet, but, sitting south of Brest, that group of Russian and shortly Belarus military (reportedly 5am local time for their entrance to the party) , might have something to say about it in time.
    This logistics is precisely my big fear now ☹️

    Absolutely no chance from the air then?
    This is a very ignorant and naive question but just how easy is it to assemble and operate this 'kit'?

    I ask as someone who struggles with anything as complicated as a flatpack from Ikea.
    Its small arms and unguided anti armour weaponry mainly so not hard to start using it as its coming in pretty much ready to go out of the box. Someone can be taught the basic function of a LAW in a few minutes.

    The Stingers and the likes of the Javelin Anti armour weapons do need some thinking & skill to operate well.

    There's a story from the Falklands about Stinger - apparently the US sent some. It was entirely new and no-one had been trained on it. So a bunch of SAS blokes were sat in circle reading the instructions, working out how to switch it on etc. When an Argentine Pucará flew overhead. Which resulted, apparently, in a comic scene of people shouting ideas at the bloke who happened Ito be holding the missile....

    IIRC NLAW was specifically design to be easy to use.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    Scott_xP said:

    sclerotic

    EU announces it has agreed unanimously amongst all member countries to take in Ukrainian refugees fir up to 3 years without asking them to first apply for asylum. Just been announced following a meeting of EU Interior ministers
    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1498017173792514051

    Yes. The EU country vs UK policy is something that UK-based EU-twitter has been jumping on all day as the latest 'what can we diss them with today'.. Mainland continental twitter seems to be a little more grown up.

    Personally I've made the argument for a more relaxed policy (than the somewhat more relaxed one they have introduced already) to my MP.


    https://twitter.com/AdamJSchwarz/status/1497651889567055875
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Chameleon said:

    Just read the speech Johnson gave at the Ukrainian church. He can be a strong orator, with substantial brainpower. Shame he's a lazy philandering tosspot 95% of the time, and that will never change.

    Never mind, he's our lazy philandering tosspot.
    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    If Putin has come to the end of the road he might try to take the rest of us with him.

    Russian state TV: “Our submarines alone can launch more than 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and NATO for good measure. The principle is: why do we need the world if Russia won’t be in it?”
    https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1498022807627829250
    Cripes.

  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,058
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo fluffs it again

    NEW: Boris Johnson announces any Ukrainian settled in the UK will be allowed *immediate* family members fleeing the war to join them.

    But PM stops short of saying *any* family members could come, which I'm told was under discussion earlier.

    Will be under pressure to do more.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1498030463469899782

    It really is an area where the UK is being shown up by the EU. Thankfully, other countries are happy to take unlimited refugees and we are far away, so it will hopefully only have a marginal impact. But it's not really in the spirit of the rest of our response.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_xP said:

    huge breaking news at BP:

    - BP to exit its 20% stake in Russian oil giant Rosneft

    - BP chief executive Bernard Looney to resign from board of Rosneft with immediate effect

    - https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497980539483172872

    Wow. That's absolutely huge. Good on BP shareholders for forcing the issue.
    Who are they going to sell it to?
    No one. They are writing it off.
    Are they exiting? They’ve written the value down to zero, resigned from the board, and won’t recognise any income from it.

    But they own it as much as Abramovich owns CFC
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    kle4 said:

    All discussion eventually metamorphose into one involving geology.

    What is the geology equivalent of Godwin's Law?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,317
    Yokes said:

    US is reportedly telling its citizens to exit Russia whilst they still can according to NYTimes.

    It seems rather odd that the FCO is not advising against travel to Russia. It doesn't seem like a good idea at the moment.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    geoffw said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just read the speech Johnson gave at the Ukrainian church. He can be a strong orator, with substantial brainpower. Shame he's a lazy philandering tosspot 95% of the time, and that will never change.

    Never mind, he's our lazy philandering tosspot.
    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    If Putin has come to the end of the road he might try to take the rest of us with him.

    Russian state TV: “Our submarines alone can launch more than 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and NATO for good measure. The principle is: why do we need the world if Russia won’t be in it?”
    https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1498022807627829250
    Cripes.

    Hell's bells
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Chameleon said:

    #BREAKING: EU countries will provide #Ukraine with 'fighter jets' under Brussels funding, says
    @JosepBorrellF

    https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1498030112230592512

    Wow. Hopefully the US gives them some drones as well.

    That's pointless for immediate use, given crew (pilot and ground) training times. Unless Germany and others still have some serviceable MIG-29s?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Heathener said:

    By the way, this isn't mere play. If you talk to the residents around Faslane they are acutely aware that it would be the No.1 nuclear target.

    So, no, some of the Highlands are certainly not the safest place to be.

    (I'm assuming everyone knows it's the home of our Trident nuclear subs)

    Well now everyone knows, Vlad included.

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    If Putin has come to the end of the road he might try to take the rest of us with him.

    Russian state TV: “Our submarines alone can launch more than 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and NATO for good measure. The principle is: why do we need the world if Russia won’t be in it?”
    https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1498022807627829250
    Hell's bells.

    Someone needs to stop this madman. And fast.
  • Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    If I was living in, say, Thailand then I would. I've craved getting back to nature and to the wild. Just not quite via this route.

    I was watching Octopussy with my son earlier. Making our way through James Bond films.

    I'd always considered the plot a bit far-fetched until today: you know, a deranged ex KGB officer who wants to set off a nuclear bomb in the west ...
    There's probably a number of places in the world where one could continue post-apocalypse without it necessarily being post-apocalypse. Certainly though Britain isn't going to be one of those.
    It is an error to think that “apocalypse” necessarily means “nuclear apocalypse”. There are several other possibilities.

    One such possibility is rapid climate change. In some scenarios, the safest place to be could conceivably be… wait for it… Russia.
  • Isn't it only about an hour and a half until the first currency markets open?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    If I was living in, say, Thailand then I would. I've craved getting back to nature and to the wild. Just not quite via this route.

    I was watching Octopussy with my son earlier. Making our way through James Bond films.

    I'd always considered the plot a bit far-fetched until today: you know, a deranged ex KGB officer who wants to set off a nuclear bomb in the west ...
    There's probably a number of places in the world where one could continue post-apocalypse without it necessarily being post-apocalypse. Certainly though Britain isn't going to be one of those.
    It is an error to think that “apocalypse” necessarily means “nuclear apocalypse”. There are several other possibilities.

    One such possibility is rapid climate change. In some scenarios, the safest place to be could conceivably be… wait for it… Russia.
    Well, fair enough, but it was implicitly nuclear apocalypse I was referring to in this instance.

    But certainly a cheery thought that other apocalypses exist.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    Heathener said:

    By the way, this isn't mere play. If you talk to the residents around Faslane they are acutely aware that it would be the No.1 nuclear target.

    So, no, some of the Highlands are certainly not the safest place to be.

    (I'm assuming everyone knows it's the home of our Trident nuclear subs)

    The warheads are actually in underground magazines on the other side of the loch. The subs have to go round the headland into Loch Long to get loaded up.

    There are all sorts of mysterious rail lines and big fences around Arrochar too. And some weird stuff north of the Skye Bridge on Raasay and Applecross. And at Torridon.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Isn't it only about an hour and a half until the first currency markets open?

    Yes.

    I wonder how shares will go.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    As an aside, how do schools do safeguarding in situations like this? Surely there are some schools with both Russian and Ukrainian students?

    Are there guidelines on how to deal with it? Talk to them first?
  • Taz said:

    PJohnson said:

    PJohnson said:

    PJohnson said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zelensky’s starting point is going to be a Russian withdrawal to the pre-2014 borders, giving up Donbass and Crimea.

    Zelensky can’t negotiate away the international sanctions, that are about to tank the markets and cause bank runs in Moscow tomorrow morning.

    Oh, and by the way, he has another few thousand NATO-spec anti-tank weapons, and a few hundred NATO-spec anti-aircraft weapons, ready for the next few thousand tanks and few hundred aircraft that try and get to Kiev.


    Negotiations difficult now both sides all in...Ukraine will have to put their egos aside a bit and listen to russias concerns...and vice versa
    The only concern in this is when will Putin be deposed and put on trial for war crimes
    We cannot base policy on wild hopes
    Who is 'We'?

    Most posters on PB know each other, in many cases personally but otherwise through reputation and thousands of posts. On the evidence of a handful of posts I should say you are a troll, and your views - if indeed they are yours - have attracted well-merited contempt.

    You don't speak for anybody except yourself and whoever might be marking your card.
    I speak from a deep knowledge of history and human nature...my concern is humanity as a whole...many posters on here are superficial
    You noticed?

    We like Sean. He’s like our own little pet tarantula. Vile, poisonous and icky. But strangely mesmerising.
    Spiders are venomous, not poisonous, and no tarantula is venomous to mankind. They are mesmerising I agree. Indian ornamentals especially.
    Ok. Fine. Sean is vile, venomous and icky. Happy now?

    And our red under the Reading bed called us “superficial”? Pffff.
    If a trans man or woman asked you to refer to them as “they” rather than by their birth gender I have no doubt you would do so out of politeness even if you disagree with their actions.

    So when @Leon has requested you stop calling him “Sean” why do you insist on doing so?
    It's a tease and he sets himself up for it. No need for toys out of the pram on this one. :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    This is how it ends...


    Tsar Nicholas II was not overthrown because the war was going badly, although it could have been going somewhat better.

    He wasn't overthrown because he was a rich man and all the Russians were poor, although this was probably suboptimal.

    He wasn't overthrown because of his wife's emotional reliance on a sex crazed drunken starets, although that didn't help.

    No, the actual reason was that the points had frozen on the main railway line into Petrograd, leaving both its people and the military garrison short of flour and therefore bread. Once those two groups began rioting, he was finished.

    I wonder if this might be the start of something similar.

    Fortunately for the world, Nicolai Alexeivitch didn't have nuclear weapons. Unlike Putin...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428

    Isn't it only about an hour and a half until the first currency markets open?

    I'm a bit worried about Russia further lashing out if there's bank runs, etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Chameleon said:

    #BREAKING: EU countries will provide #Ukraine with 'fighter jets' under Brussels funding, says
    @JosepBorrellF

    https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1498030112230592512

    Wow. Hopefully the US gives them some drones as well.

    That's pointless for immediate use, given crew (pilot and ground) training times. Unless Germany and others still have some serviceable MIG-29s?
    I think Poland has Mig 29 - and I think Germany sold all their Mig-29s to Poland....
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    The UN Security Council adopted a resolution to call for an emergency session of the General Assembly which will convene in the next 24 hours. It is the first time such a session has been called in decades, said U.S. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield, because “This is not ordinary moment. We need to take extraordinary action to meet this threat to our international system and to do everything we can to help Ukraine and its people.”

    NY Times

    The General Assembly vote has no binding effect, but will give an indication of how isolated Russia has become. Though, frankly, you wonder whether, should Nutjob discover that he has almost the whole world against him, he might try to kill absolutely everyone in revenge. It's extremely scary.
  • alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I really wish I was out in SE Asia at the moment but, hey ho.

    Anyway, courtesy of the lovely Daily Star here is a map of where Putin might nuke in the UK and the safest places to be.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/surviving-nuclear-war-in-uk-26326895

    Apologies if this unnerves people but we're dealing with a madman and anything is possible, especially with the escalations.

    The safest places to live in the event of a nuclear attack are obviously the most rural areas and coastal areas far from military bases eg Isles of Scilly, the Highlands of Scotland, the Yorkshire Moors, Snowdonia and Mid Wales, East Kent etc.

    Though obviously if Putin did launch nukes on the UK we would also be send Trident nuclear missiles to attack Moscow and St Petersburg from UK submarines within a few hours
    Yes, but who the fuck wants to survive a nuclear war?
    Me. I've been reading post apocalypse sci fi so long, I want to know who was right. The Road? Riddley Walker? Leibowitz?
    Philip K Dick - Dr Bloodmoney, or How We Got Along After the Bomb.
    What's the consensus these days on the impact of an all-out nuclear holocaust?

    End of life on earth? The human race? Civilisation as we know it? The EU?

    Or just the TV licence?
    Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere but still with pockets of life. Better in the South. Humanity and the planet will both survive.

    Edit - the TV licence will stay obviously. Great value for money apparently :)
    Although with just 23 viewers left alive in the UK the BBC will have to cut its budget somewhat.
    Dads Army on repeat for ever more.
    Private Godfrey’s slipper stamping on a human face, forever.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    As an aside, how do schools do safeguarding in situations like this? Surely there are some schools with both Russian and Ukrainian students?

    Are there guidelines on how to deal with it? Talk to them first?

    +1

    I was chatting to a friend in Surrey today about this exact point. There are both Russian and Ukrainian children in the same school.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    By the way, this isn't mere play. If you talk to the residents around Faslane they are acutely aware that it would be the No.1 nuclear target.

    So, no, some of the Highlands are certainly not the safest place to be.

    (I'm assuming everyone knows it's the home of our Trident nuclear subs)

    Kay word 'parts', as I pointed out the distance from the top to the bottom of the Highlands is longer than the distance between London and the North of England.

    Plus of course the whole reason at least 1 submarine with Trident nuclear missiles on board is always on patrol 24/7 is that in the event of nuclear war the UK PM from his bunker could still order a nuclear missile attack on Moscow or whereever the nuclear attack on the UK came from even if Faslane had been hit (though in reality it would almost certainly only be Moscow or Bejing being the 2 capitals of our potential enemies with nuclear weapons). 1 Trident nuclear missile is the equivalent of 8 Hiroshimas on its own
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    #BREAKING: EU countries will provide #Ukraine with 'fighter jets' under Brussels funding, says
    @JosepBorrellF

    https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1498030112230592512

    Wow. Hopefully the US gives them some drones as well.

    That's pointless for immediate use, given crew (pilot and ground) training times. Unless Germany and others still have some serviceable MIG-29s?
    I think some of the post soviet countries still have them - Romania, Poland and Slovakia at least from a quick google. But drones, operated by 'Ukrainians' very close, or say just over the Polish border would be exceptionally usful.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    All discussion eventually metamorphose into one involving geology.

    What is the geology equivalent of Godwin's Law?
    The extent of continental Europe.
This discussion has been closed.